BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:20 PM

twitter feed

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:18 PM

Twitter feeds are reporting that the passengers of the ship are saying that she has not been taken but is only being followed by the Israeli pirates. This is very strange.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:08 PM

There's going to be a lot of boats and ships heading for Gaza in the next few months. A lot of boats and ships.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 11:02 PM

Plus, that would be recognizing the people of Gaza as human beings rather than as their door mats.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:56 PM

Why couldn't Israel just escort the ship to a Gazan port, and inspect every item as it came off the ship and confiscate any weapons?

Oh wait. They'd also have to confiscate children's toys, wheelchairs, concrete, and nutmeg. That might be embarrassing with the world watching.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:49 PM

http://www.ipadio.com/phlogs/Gaza_TVNews/2010/06/05/Gaza-TVs-phlog-Rachel-Corrie-Ship-Now-Boarded-And-Under?displayMode=website

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:42 PM

Rachel Corrie has been taken by pirates.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:40 PM

Go here for live stream...

http://www.livestream.com/shiptogaza

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:39 PM

Israel attempting to board.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 10:23 PM

Update on the Rachel Corrie posted about 20 minutes ago.

http://www.ipadio.com/phlogs/Gaza_TVNews/2010/06/05/Gaza-TVs-phlog-Israeli-Naval-Ships-On-Way-To-Intercept-Ra

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:57 PM

One sad side effect is that the Windows for Peace concert in Leeds this weekend has been cancelled. A movement meant to build bridges between Moslems and Jews using music. Probably doesn't do much, but wtf.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:31 PM

Peace, that post means a great deal to me as one who has frequently found myself at odds with you over the humanitarian crisis in Gaza

I only hope that it may mean something to Netanyahu too.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:21 PM

Israel has fucked up BIG time with the whole Gaza issue. George Bush did better PR while he was president. IMO, the UN should take over and send in peace-keeping troops and I don`t mean maybe. I have been an Israel supporter for most of my life. For the first time I have as little love for Israel as I do for most countries in the mid-East. I am not about to white-wash Hamas or any other groups that use the Gazans as a tool for propaganda, but the letter I`m penning to Netanyahu--assuming it gets to him--will make clear my extreme disappointment that the ONE country in the world that SHOULD understand the lot of the Palestinians doesn`t. It`s horseshit and I don`t care who knows it.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 09:20 PM

She's just passed the port of Alexandria in Egypt. They're saying 3 hours if she doesn't encounter any pirates.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 08:55 PM

I felt really bad for her, Lox. She's had quite a struggle. I felt especially bad last night when I saw what she wrote. I told her I have blood on my hands, too. I don't think that made her feel any better, though. She has a much more difficult set of choices to make than I do.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 08:42 PM

God forbid the Gazans be allowed to re-build the buildings the Israelis bombed to smithereens. Or eat nutmeg.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 08:38 PM

The Israelis would not permit the cement, and some other construction materials to go to the Gaza strip; such materials are banned. They would be kept and not sent on to Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 08:05 PM

Carol,

From what I can gather there are many Israeli and non Israeli Jews who are dealing with the same personal conflict vis a vis recognition of genuine anti-semitism on the one hand and anger at the Isareli administrations policies and actions on the other hand.

Of these people I have met a couple with very strong minds who are able to keep their focus despite intense family pressure and ridicule and despite the animisoty of Anti-semites, and who have a very clear agenda on the subject of what needs to change in Israel.

Like all people and countries worldwide, most people are vulnerable and manipulable, and they are played buy the media and by lies, while a minority of hard working courageous informed people sacrifice their health and the ease of comfy social acquiescence for a life of honesty and free expression.

Free expression is not a conferred right, it is a state of mind.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:55 PM

"its contents would be checked, unloaded and shipped to Gaza under observation by representatives of the activists, the UN and the Irish government."

Oh yeah? So where's the aid from the other ships, then? From all of the prior ships that have been intercepted by the Israeli government? The Gazans have never seen a single bit of any of it.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:53 PM

One of my facebook friends, a young Jewish woman, has had some difficulty figuring out her place in this whole struggle. When I first "met" her, she was lamenting the way she was being treated by other Jews. She was utterly sick and tired of being called things like "self-hating Jew" because of her activism for human rights. I told her at the time to just know that she had my profound gratitude for her courage.

Later on, she went totally in the other direction and started to feel really hemmed in by the anger people are showing towards Israel and the kinds of people we have been talking about here who don't differentiate between the oppressors in Israel and Jews generally. She started getting very involved in organizations that are more of the "Israel, right or wrong" variety. And she told me she feared for world Jewry. I told her I understood, and that wherever I see that kind of behavior, I do my best to nip it in the bud. That was a couple of weeks ago.

Last night, after she saw a picture of the young woman who lost her eye when an Israeli border police shot her in the face with a tear gas canister, she became very emotional and started going totally in the other direction again. She said, "I can't seem to get this blood off my hands. Israel, you've broken my heart." And then she said, "I will always remember what (a friend) said to me... silence = death."

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: bobad
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:49 PM

"its contents would be checked, unloaded and shipped to Gaza under observation by representatives of the activists, the UN and the Irish government."

But of course this would not fuel the propaganda machine which, as is quite obvious, is the purpose of these "humanitarian" flotillas.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:40 PM

They won't take it to Ashdod because they know Israel won't allow the aid to go through, just as it's not releasing the aid from the rest of the flotilla.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:37 PM

""Israel's actions make antisemitism look reasonable to unthinking folk. That's most of the world.

We antisemites want to save Jews from Israel.""

Antisemitism is just as reprehensible as anti-Islamism, or anti atheism.

It is Israel, the government of Israel, and the Israeli Defence Force, that is at fault in this, not Jews, or Judaism.

Until we start blaming the right people, and stop scapegoating the whole of a religious grouping for the actions of a military/industrial hierarchy, we will never get to the nub of the problem.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: bobad
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:34 PM

'Rachel Corrie' rejects deal
By JPOST.COM STAFF
06/05/2010 00:57

Ship rejects Irish gov't deal; Due in Gaza on Saturday morning.

The Irish Foreign Minister, Dr. Michael Martin announced on Friday night that an agreement had been reached with Israel, whereby the Rachel Corrie would proceed to Ashdod where its contents would be checked, unloaded and shipped to Gaza under observation by representatives of the activists, the UN and the Irish government. The activists rejected this offer, continuing to insist on sailing to Gaza and breaking the Israeli blockade, but also stated (according to the Irish FM) that they would not resist the IDF, should it decide to board the ship.

The ship is expected to close in on Gaza Saturday morning. It's the second attempt this week by the Free Gaza Movement to break Israel's naval blockade of Gaza as well as its closure of that area's land passages to all but humanitarian aid.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:34 PM

Webcast from the Rachel Corrie

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:19 PM

The Rachel Corrie is supposed to arrive in Gaza around 2:00 AM GMT if she's not intercepted.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Paul Burke
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 07:17 PM

I was appalled to hear an aquaintance rail about the infamy of 'World Jewry' this last weekend.

Idiot, but it's what I said in an earlier post; Israel's actions make antisemitism look reasonable to unthinking folk. That's most of the world.

We antisemites want to save Jews from Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:59 PM

While I am encouraged to see that some posters condemn the actions of the Israeli government who ordered this attack I was appalled to hear an aquaintance rail about the infamy of 'World Jewry' this last weekend.

We just have to set them straight, Emma. Over and over and over, as many times as it takes.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:57 PM

I wasn't thinking about you when I said that, Emma. I'm not sure what you said that you are referring to.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:53 PM

ok Sorry Carol I didn't mean to be flippant I abhor the racism and Islamophobia I've encountered here too.

While I am encouraged to see that some posters condemn the actions of the Israeli government who ordered this attack I was appalled to hear an aquaintance rail about the infamy of 'World Jewry' this last weekend.

Two wrongs have never made a right and I am concerned about the increasing polarization and frankly, hatred, that this necessary humanitarian effort has provoked.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:52 PM

So let's put you in the hot seat, then, Ed. Where is your criticism of Roberto's post?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:51 PM

Sorry CarolC, I did not see Roberto's comments to refer to him equally. I am just a bad boy, without ethical principles (and principals, being a typo king).

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:51 PM

Like your arguments aren't one sided, Ed. Fat chance. Give it up. You're just baiting people now.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:49 PM

Most Mudfolks dont dare to tread into one sided arguments on Mudcat...because there are traps to be sprung and they get baited and speared by all those claiming to represent "right perspective" on a thread title and an issue....but actually represent only "like thinking" folks that venture there...and are not really interested in debate, or meaningful consideration to an oposing view.   

I have been around life long enmough to recognise it, and not get drawn into it. A look at who has dominated the discussion, is telling as to what has been discussed here. I expect most reasoned mudfolks will avoid this thread...as most of the stuff has been debated and said beforew here anyway. I doubt if any opinions will be influenced by anything anyone has to post...logical, questioning, less logical..because the thread is not one seeking perspective...it is one seeking acceptance of a preconceived opinion...right or wrong.

And here si a big smile:) because efforts to discredit opposing views through bully tactics (male or female) don't work with me.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:45 PM

And don't try to deny your double standard, Ed. Where was your criticism of Roberto's failure to differentiate the behavior of some Arabs and Palestinian rights activists, and that of the groups as a whole? That's right. You only came after me even though I'm not the one who was generalizing about any groups at all.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:44 PM

That quote Ed gave seemed to suggest that hating actions us the same as hating people(though it's hard to tell, since something was wrong with it: ...towards those and actions...??).

I'd suggest that though hating people is always a waste of energy, hating actions is not necessarily so.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:35 PM

Oh, come off it, Ed. This isn't just an insinuation, it's an accusation. Whose intent are you talking about then? You said it in response to what I said about myself.

The intent is good. But, though opossibly not intended,words, if not carefully structured, can incite hate.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:33 PM

"I wish to claim the title of "king of mudcat typos"...if the claim has not been made before:) "

Ed, 'when you are king dilly dilly, I will be queen' :)

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:33 PM

You know, one thing that really burns my britches about a lot of the people here in the Mudcat, and is one of the reasons I find myself spending less and less time here (except for this one thread, which is incredibly important, as far as I'm concerned), is because of the hypocrisy of people like Ed, who insinuate that people who stand up for human rights for all are inciting hatred, while they say nothing whatever about all of the overt racism that is expressed towards Muslims and Arabs right here in the Mudcat and in the larger societal context. There's no excuse for that. It's just racism, pure and simple. Don't speak up for the people who are being brutally oppressed because if you do, you might spread hatred towards those who are oppressing them. Bullshit!

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:28 PM

Sorry...Carol C, I won't take the bait....and get in an argument...which is easy to do:) I accused you of nothing. Any accusation is in your mind. If it is there (and it's for you to decide)...that's your issue to deal with, not mine.

With all respects to your opinions...and, to nme they are just that....no more value than anyone else's on Mudcat, or in the happy world we live in.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:23 PM

The intent is good. But, though opossibly not intended,words, if not carefully structured, can incite hate.

Ed, if you are accusing me of not being careful in my speech in reference to groups of people, such as Jews, then I think you had better provide some evidence of it, because I take it to be a libel. And I would suggest taking a good look at some of your own posts.

And by the way, I also posted a criticism of an anti-Semitic remark right here in this thread, similar to the one I quoted for you. But it was deleted by the moderators along with the anti-Semitic remark.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:18 PM

I wish to claim the title of "king of mudcat typos"...if the claim has not been made before:)

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:17 PM

....and, there is plenty of hate in the world....and in the Middle East...where what happened hundreds or thousands of years ago...are fresh issues today. Hopefully, we do not get swept into that.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:14 PM

"Some of us never had any hate"
The intent is good. But, though opossibly not intended,words, if not carefully structured, can incite hate.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:10 PM

It looks as if at least one word, and maybe more, are missed out from that quote Ed posted.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:05 PM

Does nobody have an answer to my questions?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 06:02 PM

Some of us never had any hate, Ed. No more than the people who were fighting for the rights of African Americans in the US South during segregation, or the people fighting apartheid in South Africa. When oppression and injustice is the order of the day, it is the duty of people of conscience to do everything we can to bring it to an end, especially those of us who are being made complicit through the use of our tax dollars by the oppressors.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 05:53 PM

""If the state of Israel was handed over to the Palestinians ... what would the outcome and fate be for the current Jewish inhabitants?

Would this Palestinian state be a democracy?

Curious as what everyone would answer to these questions?""

Several answers spring to mind:-

1. If my aunt had bollocks she'd be my uncle.
2. This kind of hypothetical question is unanswerable.
3. The question is not germane to the topic, as it seems unlikely that Gaza will ever be in a position to blockade Israel, much less mount an illegal pirate attack on a US ship delivering goods to Israel.

So, if you have no more questions on that subject, can we get back to the realms of reality?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 05:41 PM

"It feel good when all the hate is gone towards those and actions you don't like. It can be an eye opener, a mind opener, a heart opener, and and take a weight from your shoulders"
Quote, source unknown.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Jun 10 - 05:39 PM

A little bit of that cement came from me. I had hoped that it would help to keep some Palestinian family warm next winter.