BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:47 PM

It's time for the World Community to disinvest in Israel. The Netanyahu Government have become the new Nazis. How ironic.

AIPAC should hang its head in shame.

Jews don't have to be Zionists. Many Jews worldwide reject the Theocracy that has become the State of Israel.

It's a long way away from what Ben Gurion had in mind.

The new Exodus must be out of Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Roberto
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:46 PM

Israel made a big mistake. But the pacifists weren't pacifists, they were political activists supporting one side (Hamas Palestine and the whole world of radical islamism) that won't make any agreement with the other (Israel). Bloody Sunday and Sharpeville are not good examples, because at last they gave way to a solution good for every people. There's no solution but the destruction of Israel in the aim of Hamas and its supporters. Israel made a big mistake, but it is difficult to deal with a counterpart that denies your right to exist.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:45 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade

another discussion of blockade

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:45 PM

And the number of missles smuggled into Gaza, instead of food and medicine?

And the amount of aid that Egypt allows in? Please compare what THEY allow as oppoed to the Israelis- then tell me why there are NO comments about the "evil Egyptians"


Lets go back to the LAST borders that the Arabs nations agreed to- the 1923 partion ( By the UK, as part of the peace treaty ending WW I and creating Trukey, Iraq, Iran, Lebenon...) of Mandate Palestine into Arab ( Transjordan, 77% of the Mandate) and Jewish ( the remaing 23%) Homelands. Care to have everyone go back to that?????

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:37 PM

The amount of aid that Isael permits into Gaza is I think about 20% of that recognised to be necessary even to rebuild teh buildings and infrasturucture destroyed by Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:34 PM

And Israel bombed out their buildings, killed many civilians and disrupted life for Gazans.
Then allows in a little food and medicine.

Gaza 'city' has over 400,000 inhabitants, the largest city in their occupied territory; the strip has 1.5 million.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:21 PM

from this article.



"
Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman discussed the incident with counterparts from various countries, among them UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton and German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle.

In his discussion with Ban on Tuesday, Lieberman stated that while 500 people were killed in violent incidents around the world in May alone, it was Israel that was being condemned - and for defensive actions.

The two spoke following Tuesday morning's Security Council resolution calling for an impartial investigation of the matter, as well as Ban's request for a "thorough investigation" of the incident.

Lieberman stated that the hypocrisy and double standards taking root in the international community regarding Israel were to be regretted, stressing that Monday's raid was a reflection of the rights of IDF soldiers to defend themselves against attack.

The activists on board the ships, he said, had prepared clubs, metal crowbars and knives in advance of the confrontation - obviously intending to take a strike at Israel's sovereignty. He added that in light of these facts, Tuesday's Security Council resolution was unacceptable.

'Distinguish between terrorists and freedom fighters'

On Monday, Lieberman told Ashton and Westerwelle to adopt an objective approach and make the distinction between "freedom fighters" and terrorist supporters like those who had been aboard the ships.

Lieberman told the two foreign ministers that though Israel had tried to conduct dialogue with the organizers of the flotilla days before the ships neared Israeli territorial waters, such overtures were rejected - as was a request by Israel that the organizers ask Hamas to allow Red Cross visitation for captured IDF soldier Gilad Schalit.

"What happened ... was pre-planned violence, and Israeli does not intend to allow any attack on its sovereignty by groups of terror-supporters and anarchists," read a Foreign Ministry press release.

Livni: It's impossible to directly compare Israel, Hamas

Kadima and opposition leader Tzipi Livni, meanwhile, expressed full confidence Tuesday in the "principles" of Israel's soldiers, which "remain unchanging even when they join the IDF ... and even when they take over a ship and are attacked and beaten almost to death on board."

Livni criticized the world's response to the incident, saying it was impossible to make a direct comparison between Israel and Hamas. "I understand the personal pain that is expressed concerning the incidents that occurred here, but there is not one democracy in the world that can generate a comparison between murderers and those who defend themselves or kill without intending to."

"Israel and Hamas are not two sides of the same equation," she stressed.

Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz said on Tuesday that in seizing the provocative flotilla heading to Gaza, the IDF acted with determination and courage. He added that Israel exercised restraint - sometimes too much restraint.

"Israel is a small country and needs to protect itself and there was no other alternative than to defend ourselves," said Steinitz at a ministry conference in Jerusalem on Tuesday. "It is clear that the real mission of the flotilla was not to transfer humanitarian aid, which could have entered through the border crossings at the Ashdod port. Instead, the real mission was to break the naval siege to Gaza. The water siege is not perfect, but [it is] essential. It is necessary to understand that a breakage of the siege would mean an increase in terrorism and rockets against Israeli citizens. We don't have a choice, if our country needs to protect lives, we must defend ourselves."

Steinitz added that the State of Israel last year transferred 1 millions tons of food and equipment to Gaza.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:21 PM

"Over time even this will be absorbed into the history of the region."

In the same way as Bloody Sunday and Sharpeville. Looking back, both those episodes significantly changed things. I suspect the same will be true of Bloody Monday.

I assume that there will be far greater support for a boycott of Israeli goods and so forth, analogous to that which contributed to the end of the apartheid regime in South Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 01:20 PM

Over time even this will be absorbed into the history of the region.

In the same way as Bloody Sunday and Sharpeville. Looking back, both those episodes significantly changed things. I suspect the same will be true of Bloody Monday.

I assume that there will be far greater support for a boycott of Israeli goods and so forth, analogous to that which contributed to the end of the apartheid regime in South Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 12:54 PM

Piracy, as noted above, is the proper word. Those attacked defended themselves with whatever they had, but too bad they didn't have AK-47s.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 11:02 AM

"Y'all do realize there is no forseeable end to this?'

Too true Spaw.

As a race it seems we won't be happy until we're all neck deep in the blood, piss, shit and gore of the millions of innocents who die every year as a consequence of some asinine philosophic, religious, nationalistic or economic action perpetrated by those without the wit or insight to even understand their or any else's own massive failings; who can't see beyond their own need to own, control and dominate. The sad thing is that buy and larger we let the bastards get away with it, scared of what the price we might have to pay for any real progress.

As for the UN - a talking shop for those poultroons, lickspittles and feckless tosspots who have to huddle together and reassure themselves they are 'doing the right thing' despite knowing they're not but being too afraid to let it all go for fear of what they'd lose. It's a commercial outlet these days, bereft of moral authority as those whom would say they serve/rule/occupy/oppress* us strike secret or unreported deals in back rooms in their ivory tower of glass and hipocrisy in NYC and then head downtown for a cocktail and a blowjob. They might as well, apparently they can't or won't enforce their resolutions unless it seems some sort of commercial interest is served; ask the Tibetans, an even more abandoned people than the Palestinians.

Fuck them all.

*Delete where applicable according to your countries type of government

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 10:51 AM

Piracy is the correct word for what happened.

Defending oneself against piracy in international waters is never a crime. The killing of those defenders however, is a crime, and one worthy of the severest penalty.

Israel is out of control, and unless the West stops supporting its illegal bullying of its neighbours, there will be a catastrophic meltdown in the region.

This is not a case of Jews against Muslims, and it should be made clear that this is so.

Two states are involved, Israel and Palestine, and trying to pretend that it is a religious conflict obscures the real issue.

Israel must be made to understand that it can no longer rely on the "Victims of the Holocaust" excuse for its current behaviour.

The Holocaust killed six million Jews, who were German, French, Polish, Hungarian, Czechoslovakian, Romanian, Russian, and on and on and on.

To try to pretend that they are all children of a single nation is nonsense. They share a single religion, and for that they were persecuted. That does not confer upon them the right to occupy an ever increasing portion of somebody else's country.

Israel is a State, and there is no other state which would be supported in annexing its neighbours' territory, by the Western nations.

It's time to tell them enough is enough, or we will have a war in the Middle East which will surpass, in ferocity, anything seen hitherto on this planet.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 10:50 AM

I would not hav e liked toi be the first guy down the rope being greeted by the "peace activists".

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 10:37 AM

Why on earth would anyone have been carrying paintball guns, and how would they have killed so many with them?

Lead poisoning?

Y'all do realize there is no forseeable end to this? Over time even this will be absorbed into the history of the region. And when it comes to history of the region the faults of many over all these years make it impossible to ever agree on what can, will, or should be done. Nothing will.........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 10:09 AM

I am not an expert on the law of the sea, but I suspect that the international protocols that permit aggressive action in support of a blockade only apply to a lawful blockade, and I am doubtful whether this one is so.

If war had been declared then the Geneva convention would apply and many many of the Israeli actions over the years would have ben contrary to that.

I understood Menzies Campbell to say earlier today that probably the law of the vessel was Turkish, so I am unclear that the use of automatic rifles against people armed with chair legs was lawful force. I suspect it was not.

Er - no, I don't think they were painball guns. Why on earth would anyone have been carrying paintball guns, and how would they have killed so many with them?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 08:38 AM

This is another sad episode in the seemingly never-ending war between Palestinians and Israelis. Both people in my opinion have legitimate grievances and aspirations. In this case the Freedom Flotilla was challenging Israel's right to blockade the coast of Gaza. As mentioned earlier above:

"Challenging a blockade is itself an act with military pretensions."

As I recall such action is exactly what the Israelis did to break the British blockade of Palestine after World War 2, as was dramatized in the novel and film EXODUS.

Looking at the Israelis video, it's certainly apparent that the rappelling Israelis commandos were indeed attacked with metal posts, chairs, and anything else that was readily available. It is not at all clear what action by the Israelis provoked the attack, given that the Israelis confiscated video by others (but some will surface soon, I imagine).

On balance I would assume that the Israelis will lose in this incident more from world public opinion that will the Palestinians and their supporters.

Such words of wisdom!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 01 Jun 10 - 12:07 AM

"The Israelis said that the aid on that convoy would be delivered if landed at a regular port."

Is Gaza under blockade, or not? If it is, then the aid would not have been delivered and that's a lie. If it is not, there is no excuse for the raid. Choose your poison.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 May 10 - 09:16 PM

To those who wish to consider my comments as condoning an attack or defending disproportionate response to provocations...please read for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 10 - 09:12 PM

"... the dismissive comment by Bill D."

It was not 'dismissive'. It was a short version of 15 paragraphs noting how you can blame EITHER side, depending on your subjective point of view and what your basic premises are and which 'events' you use as your starting point!

"but, Daddy, he started it!" might be true, IF my little brother ate one of MY candies from my table, and not true IF I had taken more than my share from the bag when he wasn't looking. And we could all blame Daddy for not supervising the division.

So...do we blame the UN for agreeing to give Israel that land? Or the Israelis for interpreting the gift too broadly? Or the Muslims in the Middle-East for being unwilling to share?....or the Germans for creating sympathy for the Jews? Or ...or... just the basic old human 'my tribe is more important than your tribe' attitude?

I have watched YEARS of copy & paste 'proof' of who was to blame for both general & specific conflicts in that area. It is as clear as who is to blame in Ireland, the Baltics, Indo-China, or street gangs in Los Angeles.

"We have met the enemy, and it is US!"
                            Pogo Possum

...oh, sorry to have interrupted those of you who know the answers...please carry on...

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Riginslinger
Date: 31 May 10 - 07:15 PM

In any event, it looks like they sure pissed off Turkey.

   "Otherwise, I agree with Paul Burke making the point about single-interest states."

            I agree with Paul and Crow Sister as well.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Jim McLean
Date: 31 May 10 - 06:52 PM

I saw/heard someone on BBC tonight saying that the commandos did not have machine guns but PAINT guns!

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:51 PM

Someone has deleted a response to one of my potsts; idiotic though it was, it wasn't objectionable in any way. Moderators: this topic is important, inasfar as anything in the forum is. Please allow all reasonably expressed opinions to appear.

---

Please read the first message in this thread. No guest posts here. --Mod

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:34 PM

"Well, I'm not condoning the attack..... On the other hand, Israel is at war and Gaza is blockaded"
Israel is not at watr - it has invaded someone elses territory in order to settle on it.
Sorry - you are condoning the attack.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:27 PM

The Military was used - thus it is a War Crime. A State of War already exists due to the blockade, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Royston
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:25 PM

The question "who started it?" is, contrary to some views expressed here, very important indeed.

Could it perhaps have been the European Zionists that invaded Palestine (in a flotilla of boats, ironically) in the late '40s to embark on the first modern terror campaign; assassinations, bombings of the civilian population in hotels and restaurants and market-places?

Yes, it was. So now we know who started it. And we certainly know who is perpetuating it.

North Americans, jeesh. Jews invade Palestine and ghetto-ise the natives. And then in your view, it is the uppity, unreasonable natives that are the cause of all the troubles. Where do you get that idea from? The push west? Mexico? Yes, it all starts to make sense. But of course you're not colonialists at all, that accusation is still reserved for us isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:06 PM

"I've also seen footage that serves as evidence that Israeli covering fire began before the first abseilers landed on the ship."

Oh yes, and that there were wounded passengers.



The Purpose, intent and cargo of the ship were transparent for all to investigate. Thet were completely open and that is why there were so many oservers from the media and from internatonal parliaments on board.

The only secrecy involved was when The Israeli Navy imposed a blackout.

The only unknowns exist After the hijacking.


The Israeli spokesman is Lying.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:01 PM

Seen it bobad - I've also seen footage that serves as evidence that Israeli covering fire began before the first abseilers landed on the ship.

This despite a white flag being flown.

Regardless of which, this was a civilian ship in international waters being boarded by a force whose sole purpose was to hijack it.

The idea that the civilians on board the ship were the agressors only makes sense if you are high on crack.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 10 - 05:00 PM

Israel spokesman reaction to raid on Gaza convoy

http://vodpod.com/watch/3739834-israel-spokesman-reaction-to-raid-on-gaza-convoy

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: bobad
Date: 31 May 10 - 04:50 PM

Video showing Israeli soldiers being greeted as they arrive on board the Turkish ship, Mavi Marmara. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&feature=player_embedded

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 31 May 10 - 04:49 PM

"Challenging a blockade is itself an act with military pretensions."

Its called civil disobedience.

It worked for Ghandi.

It worked for Martin Luther King.

It worked for them because it made very clear who had the moral high ground.


So let me get this straight ... the crack force of elite commandos, armed to the teeth, who abseiled uninvited onto a ship in international waters with the express intentiopn of Hijacking it, were only acting in self defence when they shot at least 40 people, killing 19 of them?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: robomatic
Date: 31 May 10 - 04:22 PM

Specifically who did what to whom and when is still uncertain as I write this.

Challenging a blockade is itself an act with military pretensions.

There is a significant pall around this whole affair to indicate that it has been stage managed precisely to lend support to such outlandish statements as the title of this thread or the message from Paul Burke, above.

There is a significant irony here. I think the tactic of casting support for the innocent Palestinian civilians against the bloodthirsty Israeli state is getting perceived as just that, and is getting a little old. Let's see how long the manufactured state of world outrage lasts.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians live miserably, Israel's marginalization continues, and a buildup to something more sinister, more outrageous, and considerably more bloodthirsty continues.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 10 - 04:18 PM

If it isn't a declared war, John, it is a defacto war. Same difference. People are dying, injustices are being heaped upon civilians and nations in the area.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 May 10 - 04:11 PM

How are we going to get any solution when people think stupidly?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 May 10 - 03:11 PM

A reconciliation process on the South African model- we are talking about a similar situation to the ending of the Boer state- in which both Israel and Palestine are placed under international jurisdiction, all religious privileges in both states de- recognised, illegal settlers given the choice of returning to Israel or becoming full Palestinian citizens without special privileges, a water commission appointed to correct the imbalance in those rights, an arms commission to regulate all clandestine WMDs, an open door to Europe and the USA for all those who can not live with a non- apartheid state.

Just for starters.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 10 - 02:21 PM

Yes John, I was responding to the dismissive comment by Bill D. But my example wasn't strictly appropriate to this situation..

Otherwise, I agree with Paul Burke making the point about single-interest states.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 10 - 02:16 PM

Bloody Monday

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: The Barden of England
Date: 31 May 10 - 02:12 PM

Am I missing a point here? People keep mentioning 'war' but has there been a declaration of war? And if so on whom?
This is an illegal act in international waters and all countries should condemn it as such, otherwise the occupation of vessels off the coast of Somalia may well be seen to be legal. What the Isralei's have done is no better than what Somali pirates have done.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Paul Burke
Date: 31 May 10 - 02:03 PM

The lesson: end Israel now. I mean the Jewish state. There's no room in the world for single-interest states, whether Jewish, Aryan, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu or Pagan.

It was a mistake- it started as an honest mistake born of 19th century romantic nationalism, was made more dishonest by willing to be co-opted by British oil interests in the 30s (because the Mesopotamia pipeline went that way), further by using the cold war as a lever to secure US patronage, and ended up blackmailing the USA who can't even ask politely that they should obey international law.

But the result is that there will probably be another Holocaust- in 5 years, 50 years, 500 years- and next time nobody will be particularly surprised.

As you reap.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 10 - 01:38 PM

Actually, WHO started it isn't generally irrelevant in wars. I mean if the second world war went on long enough, detractors could have used precisely the same bland dismissive platitude regards the responsibility of the Germans for 'starting it'.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Bill D
Date: 31 May 10 - 01:32 PM

"...but, Daddy...HE started it!"

There's plenty of blame, provocation and guilt to go around.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 May 10 - 01:29 PM

Israel will never allow a free Palestinian state.
As long as Israel keeps their boot on the Middle East, there will never be peace in the region.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 10 - 01:27 PM

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Thank you.
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Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Stu
Date: 31 May 10 - 01:15 PM

More dead people. Soon more . . . and more . . . and more . . . and more . . . and more. . . and more (repeat ad infinitum).

I guess humans have an unquenchable desire for blood and gore, as well as an unnerving ability to inflict upon and ignore the suffering of other living beings. Shame really, so much potential as a race too.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 10 - 11:22 AM

EDIT: "it's interesting to watch the various immediate OFFICIAL responses from different nations."

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 31 May 10 - 11:18 AM

Gerald Kaufman

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 10 - 11:16 AM

"There is no moral, legal or military argument to support these actions."

I guess the Israeli president disagrees with you as he's given the attack his "full backing".

In regard how this event may play out world-wide, it's interesting to watch the various immediate responses from different nations. The US response in particular is telling (particularly in light of the scheduled meeting tomorrow I thought) as it was the most mildly worded I've read thus far, expressing "regret" for a "tragedy" rather than condemnation of an attack.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 May 10 - 11:14 AM

Proclaiming that you're friends with the neighborhood bully and not working to stop the bad behavior is nothing to brag about. Frankly, this "friend" needs a good Three Stooges-style dope slap.

Israel as a nation has taken on some of the characteristics of the countries that abused Jews in WWII. That is clear. Their treatment of the Palestinians, and such prolonged time they spend in camps - generations! It is appalling. This American says Israel has none of my support as long as they continue to stir up their neighbors in the Middle East. If they settled on the land allotted and were good neighbors, I think things now would be a lot different now.

New York Times stories are a lot more durable than anything via Yahoo news (the first link).

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 31 May 10 - 10:55 AM

"Sometimes we have to look into our own back yards before we start pointing fingers at our neighbours down the street. "


Yes I agree.

The British and American Government, our governments, are sitting in our back yard giiving tacit support to a campaign of repression and violence in Gaza, a place described by Gerald Kaufman (a friend of Golda Meyer and Tsipi Livni) as being comparable to the Warsaw Ghetto.


"The Israelis said that the aid on that convoy would be delivered if landed at a regular port."


What about the medical and dental surgeries on board the ships designed to give Gazan's access to a doctor or dentist?

How exactly were they meant to deliver these things without the ships going too?

And how about the Aid workers?


The majority of Aid to Gaza has been smuggled in. The UN and all the main Aid agencies all contradict the Israeli claim that they are allowing enough aid in.

In fact they all support a view that Israel is starving Gazans of the things they need to survive.



"and I have no interest in discussing the legality of the war or Israel's existence for the umpteen zillionith time"


Well you are the only person to bring these issues into the discussion, so if you could try and stick to the point that would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 31 May 10 - 10:46 AM

"Atrocity is a bit strong isn't it?"

What is the cut off limit that distingishes a mass murder from an atrocity?

25 dead? 30? 100?

It was a flotilla of Aid agencies bringing humanitarian aid to people who need it.

It was in international waters.

It was no threat to Israeli National security.

There is no moral, legal or military argument to support these actions.



"if it happened as reported by one side and not the other"

The information about the numbers of dead is corroborated by Israeli news sources.

There has been no information from those in the flotilla since the Israeli Navy blacked out all communications.

Why did they do this?

We await the testimony of those on board.

I will be paying careful attention to the testimony of the Irish members of parliament who were on board.



"The actions of the convoy's leaders were intended solely to provoke the response that they did, not to assist the Palestinians."



This is your opinion. It is uncorroborated.

Regardless of which it is a poor excuse for the murder of 20 Aid agency workers.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 May 10 - 10:11 AM

Oops, now he's not..