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BS: UFOs do not exist!
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Peace Date: 09 Apr 04 - 01:53 PM ETs may have jump started our evolutionary process. UFOs have appeared in art for centuries--I'll dig up the sites and post 'em here. But, that still doesn't convince anyone. We have had over 10000 crop circles appear in the past 25 years, and we still don't find anything odd about that. Nope. Nothing strange going on here! A friend of mine a few days ago said, "Your IQ only has one way to go: down." Maybe he's right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Apr 04 - 01:12 PM The "evidence" I mention is open to question primarily because the official mainstream of society (the controllers in government, media, the military, and the science community) have, for their own reasons, decided not to officially endorse it through the media. They're afraid of the possible repercussions, because: "the truth will set you free". A free people is NOT what the controllers of society want, Amos. They want an obedient army of worker bees and compliant consumers. Till death do us part. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Amos Date: 09 Apr 04 - 01:07 PM LH: I was referring to Bruce's complaint about a cold way to get the news that ELvis died. The definition of "evidence" in your statement is open to question, I would think. Your post hadn't shown up yet when I wrote. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Apr 04 - 12:49 PM I do hope that insensitive remark was directed to Bruce, and not to me, Amos... :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Amos Date: 09 Apr 04 - 12:39 PM (Well, what'd you expect when you keep yer head in the deep-freeze 24-7??) :>)) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Apr 04 - 12:39 PM That's great Bill, but I don't think it's Jesus. It's one of those Dutch Renaissance painters...can't recall his name at the moment. Either that or it's Golda Meire. Hmmmm... The available evidence suggests to me that we have been having sporadic visits from interplanetary travellers ever since the most ancient times, but it is only conjecture on my part. It seems quite likely to me, in other words, but that doesn't mean I know it for an absolute fact. I remain quite interested in the subject. Having actually seen what I am 99% sure were alien vehicles on 2 occasions in the late 60's, however, I am in almost no doubt whatsoever that they are coming here now in modern times...but not in great numbers, and probably not with the intention to stay or invade or anything like that. Why that is, I don't know. There are any number of possible theories that could be advanced. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Peace Date: 09 Apr 04 - 12:34 PM Elvis died? Pretty cold way to get the news. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Bill D Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:41 AM nope, LH...since Elvis isn't really dead, no images of him have appeared, but he sometimes wanders into odd 7-11 stores late at night. I did find one of Jesus in a tree in Milwaukee though. and also a page ABOUT the ability of humans to see images..especially faces, in natural objects. Or, to combine all the ideas, you could read "Alien Pregnant by Elvis" Author(s): Esther M. Friesner, Martin H. Greenberg (Editor) ISBN: 0886776104 Publisher: New American Library (Mm) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Amos Date: 09 Apr 04 - 11:00 AM Bill, Sorry -- I didn't mean to mischaracterize you!! (Misundercharacterize??) Rustic, lass, you are a wild child and a free spirit but I would never think of you as an insane person!! Lotsa the best stuff, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Rustic Rebel Date: 09 Apr 04 - 02:52 AM Your right Bill. Sorry for coming off as an insane person (of sorts) Of course I see the petroglyphs as a history of chiefs wearing feathers, it's just those other drawings that facinate me. The way I look at this, When people ask where are they now, The aliens used to be revered as gods. People thought they were powerful and reverent. Now we look at them as aliens and only want to try to figure out what the hell they want with us. Are we going to find out and relate? Yes I think so, as long as our government doesn't try to destroy an incoming. Wait, maybe that's why they are leary now-a-days. Our people are freaking out and try to stop any incoming. (Ha!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Apr 04 - 12:01 AM Wow! Ever cool... Have you got any of Elvis? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Bill D Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:32 PM speaking of images...a Google search will send you off for hours! Here's one in a shrub from Australia...Virgin Mary? I guess you see what you want to see. (Being a woodworker who and here's a guy who makes me and James Randi look meek...*grin* calls himeself Stupid Evil Bastard Makes 'interesting' reading though, as he posts all the hate mail he gets. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:01 PM Yeah, that's true, Bill. It depends whose mental "toes" are being stepped on as to how people react to an idea or statement. We're all subjective beings in that sense. Ellenpoly - I nearly DID meet William Shatner in Toronto around about 1972, when a very good friend of mine sold him a certain illicit substance (of the common, garden-variety sort)! However, the sale occurred through an intermediary, so we sadly did not meet the Great Man face to face. (sigh...) I trust he had a pleasant flight...it was good stuff. :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Bill D Date: 08 Apr 04 - 10:50 PM 'ol Bill found that just fine, Amos-- I didn't know Randi had that on his pages, but I'm not surprised. I am old enuf to have read about weeping statues many times (and images on watertanks, too!)...They are no more amazing than vegetables shaped like rabbits, or faces appearing in wood grain. (Boy, do I see a lot of THOSE!) "He loves that approach!!" ...well, 'loves' may be a bit extreme. Randi is the extreme other end of the scale from those who make fantastic claims, and it's always interesting to see some of the claims put to the test. "It all depends on whose Ox is being gored." as the old saying goes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Amos Date: 08 Apr 04 - 09:55 PM BPL: Make sure Bill D gets that Randi link, would ya?? He loves that approach!! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 08 Apr 04 - 02:11 PM For more on one "Virgin Mary" image click here |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Bill D Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:19 PM Rustic Rebel...'picking on you'? hmmm...I try not to do that, I was addressing a concept, not a person....I just say what *I* think about the images, and they simply aren't convincing to me. I can 'imagine' lots of things those drawing might represent,(as others above have noted) and lots of reasons why cave dwellers might make them. Why go out on a limb and choose the most exotic explanation? Why is not a simpler explanation more plausible? It is like "weeping images of the Virgin Mary"...there are other explanations, but none as interesting as what people would LIKE to believe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: GUEST Date: 08 Apr 04 - 01:01 PM regarding the cave art: Anyone besides me worked with pre-school children and seen the progression as they learn to draw? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Ellenpoly Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:41 PM LH, are you SURE you just don't want to meet William Shatner?...xx..e...;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:36 PM And you don't need hallucinogens to do that, by the way. You just need to be quite good at meditation, contemplation, and quieting the busy mind. Most people in this culture have never succeeded in quieting the busy mind during waking hours, so they wouldn't have had such an experience, in all probability. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM Yeah, Pied Piper, I do regard that as fairly unlikely...but not impossible. Space operations would require any air-breathing creature to wear a close-fitting helmet at times, with a transparent visor. It is possible that the hominid body structure is a more universal form among intelligent creatures in the galaxy than is presently suspected by Earth scientists. It is also possible that those pictographs do not represent astronauts or vehicles at all, but represent something else entirely. I remain curious about them, but draw no absolute conclusions from them. There is even another possibility...that mystics were able to see visions of future events...and draw pictures of those events. Thus a person 3,000 years ago might have had a vision of 20th century and 21st century helicopters, astronauts, etc...and then drawn a picture of his vision. That, of course, has nothing to do one way or another with visiting aliens in spaceships. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Pied Piper Date: 08 Apr 04 - 10:50 AM Actually a lot of this kind of cave art can be convincingly explained by assuming the painters were in altered states of consciousness and quite likely due to the indole group of hallucinogens. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: sledge Date: 08 Apr 04 - 09:28 AM Caveman paintings of ET, I'm thinking more along the lines of maybe Zog should have stayed clear of those funny mushrooms that Ug found in the forest. :-) Cheers Sledge |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Pied Piper Date: 08 Apr 04 - 07:34 AM I checked out these pictures and the Afghani one is clearly a fake the rest I've seen before and believe are genuine. Do you not consider it just a bit unlikely that beings that evolved in another star-system and capable of interstellar flight would appear to be humanoid and wearing 20th century Human space suits? TTFN PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Ellenpoly Date: 08 Apr 04 - 04:16 AM I'm just envious of you who have seen one...x..e |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Peace Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:52 AM dianavan: I have seen one, too. Different than what you saw--no noise--but real for all that. However, I'm different from most people in that I don't really give a rat's ass who does or doesn't believe me. (I'm not suggesting you do or don't care what others believe.) I don't expect others will believe me, and that's OK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Rustic Rebel Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:34 AM What the hell? Bill D. You pickin on me too? Imagine that. No let's just imagine that. Space people came into our existance thousands of years ago. People back then were blown away by any kind of space flight (unlike what we know of today)and thought of it as a phenomenon of their time and the only way to record it was the way they recorded history. To draw pictures. I cannot discount our history of writing as we know it. Can you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Bill D Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:14 AM ok...I see. Supposedly our ancestors drew pictures **OF** visiting aliens. Well....um...I looked at those drawings, and I can't say any of them overwhelm me. One looks like a guy in boat with feathers on his head...and one could be a dancer on 'funny' mushrooms.....but you know me--no imagination... |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Rustic Rebel Date: 08 Apr 04 - 12:09 AM I say thanks Dianavan for sharing. Big Pink Lad- You can fly, you can fly, you can fly. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:41 PM You are wise not to talk about stuff like that a lot, Dianavan, because you will only be annoyed and scoffed at by certain know-it-all people who show so little respect for your powers of observation (in their attempt to preserve their own chosen view of "reality") that it can really make you angry for the rest of the day if you let it... - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: dianavan Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:06 PM I don't like to talk about my UFO experiences any more than I like to share my spiritual experiences but Donuel you have greatly interested me with the description of what you encountered. Sounds similar to my sighting. I first heard a high-pitched whirring sound. I looked out to the long channel of water between my island and the unoccupied mainland. I saw a whirling disc of light, a few feet above the water travelling at incredibly fast speed down the passage. It was very large! I ran to the beach and looked but saw nothing more. The beach was deserted and so I meanered down to my neighbors place. I asked her if she had ever seen anything strange out on the water and she described exactly what I had seen. We still have no idea what it was or is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:42 PM Thanks for the battery info guys. The last time I heard about them was from the Von Danniken stuff sources - I don't follow the UFO stuff much these days... Robin |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 04 - 06:57 PM No, Bill, I think the idea is that Earth people drew those markings, not the visiting aliens. Consider that tribal people like the Sioux, the aborgines, and many others have drawn pictographs or simple pictures of white soldiers and explorers, airplanes, ships, etc...and you've got the "picture". - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Bill D Date: 07 Apr 04 - 06:44 PM "...I have always been fascinated by the old drawings and petroglyphs of ancient times, where you can look at these photos and think nothing else but alien, in my opinion." if they could fly thru space, why couldn't they draw better? And what were they doing in caves? I suspect that if you met some of our remote ancestors, they would seem alien. The will to believe is a powerful force. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 04 - 05:32 PM That's a very interesting post, Donuel. I agree that a great many of the UFO "enthusiasts" or self-appointed experts are cranks. That doesn't change the fact that I have seen a couple of unusual, probably alien vehicles, but I'm just someone with a casual interest in UFO's, I'm not someone who pursues the subject on a full-time basis. Can you give a bit more description of what you saw? I'd be interested. PM it if you want. RR - thanks for the interesting link. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Donuel Date: 07 Apr 04 - 04:15 PM I devoted 20+ years to the research of these UFO phenomena. Whenever I could I went to the source of the most famous investigators, sites and a myriad of witnesses. I have my opinions of many of the people in the field and hold only a handful of them in high esteem. The misuse and even abandonment of scientific procedure is rampant and a few charcters that hold themselves out as experts I hold beneath contempt. I used to guest on UFO radio broadcasts and offer clinical hypnosis sessions to numerous witnesses free of charge. Where do I stand after all these experiences? I have no proof of entities. I accept the reality of several modes of unidentified craft. I know more about the subject than the great pioneer Allen Hynek (honored by Speilberg's Close Encounters) but have no more tangible proof than he did. Like Dr. Mack of Harvard I found there are critics who will condemn even listening to witness' stories. I never had a witness like Walton who had extraneous factors that lent credibility to their experience. So I am of the belief that all abduction cases I interviewed were caused by a hypnogogic paralysis that is very common among children and very rare but not immpossible for adults. What I do have however is a conviction that the human mind has a primitive capacity to operate in a 4 dimensional pre cognitive capicity. I also have had the priviledge to see as well as hear a most unusual craft within 50 meters. The sound of the enormous Ufo was audible to the ear as well as a deep conduction of electrical sound within my skeleton. I have been able to replicate the throbbing sound as well as paint photo quality depictions of several of these cosmic events. I would conclude that the exploration of this phenomena has been worth all the time I devoted to it. It was all at my own expense without any economic profit although a book may someday be forthcoming. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 07 Apr 04 - 03:03 PM It's what Charlie utters when he realizes the pointlessness of rationality in fantasyland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Rustic Rebel Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:43 PM Hey, BigPink, you want to tell me what your reference to Charlie Brown has to do with UFO discussion? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:30 PM Good grief. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Rustic Rebel Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:15 PM I know they exist. As a matter of fact, I was transported through a portal tube and they showed me their gardens. Ha! I am a seer of them and a believer of them. I have always been fascinated by the old drawings and petroglyphs of ancient times, where you can look at these photos and think nothing else but alien, in my opinion. Take a look here. Rustic |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:11 PM Aww, there's no danger of that, Mario. Still, jealous girls can be very difficult to deal with. They're insecure. Perhaps Winona is best left as a wistful fantasy. She smokes too, and that would be a problem for me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: GUEST,MMario Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:41 PM no LH, but she is known to be the jealous type - and she might think you love suacers more then her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 04 - 01:24 PM Why? You think she doesn't believe in stuff like that? :-) You never know, Bill... |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Bill D Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:41 PM well, with a little effort and a plan, you 'could' meet Winona, LH.....but don't tell her about the saucers, 'till aftershe learns what a great guy you are! ;>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:36 PM Just as, for example, I am probably never going to meet Winona Ryder, eh, Bill? :-) - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Bill D Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:30 PM 'life' is almost inevitable, given proper conditions. Carbon plus natural phenomena practically guarantee something will happen....however, intelligent higher life is a much less likely outcome. Evidence shows that we almost didn't make it to this level, due to various natural calamities. What we are now is only a few million or a few thousand (depending on your definition) years old. If there were a way to place a bet, I'd stake a BIG one on there being other life, and a reasonably large one on there being intelligent life out there. Due to known laws of physics, I'd also risk a good pile on us never meeting them. ('US' meaning confirmed and public, rather than sincere but unproven accounts of individuals) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:20 PM Right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Amos Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:18 PM Besides, a universe may exist with you outside of it. Especially if your model allows for parallel universes. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:01 PM That's an interesting way to look at it, Rapaire. PiedPiper - You say if they've mastered warp speed, where are they? Well...when I saw something back in the late sixties, my answer to that was, "They're here!" Same with a lot of other people. Prior to that I hadn't given it any thought, and didn't believe in them. That they are not here in very great numbers (or frequency?) is obvious. That they are not invading, taking over, or staying here (I assume...) seems obvious. This suggests to me a number of possibilities. 1. They don't consider this planet terribly important right now. 2. They have some moral or political reason for not interfering with us. 3. We're too far away to make any major incursion here practical for them. 4. They're too busy with other matters. 5. They're just mildly curious..."just passin' through, folks" 6. They consider us too primitive and dangerous to deal with directly at the present time. 7. and so on, and so on...there are numberless possible reasons really, if you're willing to think about it a little. 8. There is also a possibility that they have mastered interdimensional travel, and can appear/disappear out of a parallel system of reality that we are not even aware of. How? By modulating their molecular frequency through a very wide spectrum of vibration. This would not involve "travelling" as we think of it at all. Now I know that all sounds unusual to you, right? It sounds unusual to me too. It is only speculation. But remember, most of the things we do now on a daily basis, such as using cell phones, computers, jet planes, etc...would have sounded not just unusual to a person in the 1800's but downright impossible! Yet here they are. Since I have personally seen what definitely appeared to be alien craft, I have to wonder why and how that could have happened. It's that simple. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: UFOs do not exist! From: Rapparee Date: 07 Apr 04 - 11:42 AM If you believe that there is intelligent life on Earth (sometimes I have my doubts), then intelligent life has evolved at least once. But I don't think you can argue frequency from one incident. On the other hand, if you assume that certain conditions must exist before intelligent life can evolve (and I'm not limiting this to oxygen/carbon lifeforms), then we can do a frequency approximation. One assumption I'd make is that intelligent life must be found on a planetary surface -- other forms, such as ones of pure energy, may exist, but this is MY hypothesis and if you don't like it I'll take my assumptions and so home. Anyway, for physical contact to be survivable such a planet would have to fall within certain boundaries of temperature, atmospheric composition, gravity, and so on. These, too, can be computed. But I can't think of anything that says that life evolved at different rates. The Universe is n years old, and if life and intelligence evolved at approximately the same time everywhere it could evolve, then all intelligent races would be approximately where we are in the process -- they're not here yet because we're not there yet. Think about that. The implications are staggering -- not in the least being a possible Universal Traffic Jam. Hmmm...maybe that's what triggers the Big Bang Cycle.... |
