BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 05:10 PM

Now that will bring the under 30 stampeding towards Obama! What a coup.

Kind of anti-climactic though, don't you think? Or Uncle Teddy just jealous Caroline stole his thunder?

Enquiring minds probably don't know that, according to HuffPo's Sunday MSM pundit review today, "polls" say that 3 out 5 Democratic voters want BOTH Hil & Barak on the ticket TOGETHER!!!

Awwwww...that's so sweet.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 04:48 PM

Uncle Ted is going to back Barack tomorrow, according to the AP.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 04:41 PM

Because lazy people like to whine? Seriously, it is inconceivable to me that once someone qualifies, they don't do the paperwork--especially post-9/11 when the Bush administration could decide to deport everybody on like 15 minutes notice.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 04:24 PM

"Serena Perez moved to the United States from Ecuador more than 10 years ago after marrying an American citizen. She applied for citizenship in May, thinking she would have plenty of time to become a citizen and be granted the right to vote. But now, she probably won't get that chance."


                   This is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. Why did she wait 10 years to apply? There was a story out last week about some woman who waited 20 years to apply for citizenship. If they really wanted to vote in the 2008 election, why didn't they fill out the papers a year earlier, or 5 years, or 10 years, or...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 03:46 PM

I suppose we'll never know. But now she says she is going to Florida too. So much for abiding by the party rules, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 03:36 PM

It would be interesting to know how many of the following are Latina/o just in terms of how they might vote.

(I agree, I'd love to see an Edwards/Richardson ticket.)

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- More than a million people who want to vote in November's general election probably won't get the chance because of a delay in processing applications to become U.S. citizens, according to the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services.
art.vote.here.gi.jpg

A backlog processing naturalization applications could keep over a million immigrants from voting this fall.

The dream of voting in the upcoming presidential election -- along with a scheduled increase in fees -- motivated 1.4 million people across the country to apply after June 1 last year to become naturalized U.S. citizens -- double the previous year's number, the bureau said.

The huge jump in applications also increased the time normally needed to process them from about seven months to as many as 18 months.

Serena Perez moved to the United States from Ecuador more than 10 years ago after marrying an American citizen. She applied for citizenship in May, thinking she would have plenty of time to become a citizen and be granted the right to vote. But now, she probably won't get that chance.

"What is the reason for this backlog when there are so many people in an election year that are willing to participate?" Perez asked.

Immigrant advocate Jose Lagos is furious at the slowdown.

"They say they are doing what they can, but we think they can do more," Lagos told CNN.

At a congressional hearing last week, the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services said it's hiring 1,500 more employees to handle the delays. But officials say that even with the additional resources, there's little chance the backlog will be significantly reduced by the November election.

Immigrant rights groups estimate as many as 200,000 legal residents in Florida alone are waiting to learn if they'll become citizens in time to vote. And in Florida, where the results of the 2000 election hung in the balance, thousands of new voters could swing the 2008 vote.

Historically, Florida immigrants -- many of them Cubans -- tended to vote Republican. But as more apply for citizenship from other countries, experts say the immigrant vote is now up for grabs.

Mitch Ceasar, a Democratic party chairman in South Florida, says there are suspicions about the delay.

"Conspiracy theorists may say this is grinding to a very slow movement or halt specifically to disenfranchise these new legal citizens from finishing their process and becoming voters," Ceasar said.

That view is dismissed by Jose Riesco, the Republican party vice chairman in Miami-Dade County.

"We don't have voter suppression here," Riesco said. "That is ludicrous. It is an election year, and that is political rhetoric."

Either way, Perez thinks her vote could make a difference.

"I'm going to feel I'm missing an opportunity to change the way the government is running this country. ... And I really feel that I want to be able to be part of that change," Perez said

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 03:18 PM

GG - The Daily Kos was encouraging Democrats to cross over and vote for Romney in an effort to scramble the Republican race in Michigan, so I don't think too much can be made of her performance, or lack of it, there

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 03:09 PM

Actually, I can't count. There haven't been 4 Dem primaries, there have been 5 primaries so far, but none of the Dems except Clinton went to Michigan, as I recall. And performed really badly there too, considering she was unopposed by the other two first tier candidates.

Considering that Clinton's fortunes may be waning, why does everyone assume that only Obama will benefit from that? If Clinton keeps sinking, that doesn't mean everyone is jumping on the Obama bandwagon.

So of course Edwards is still in the running. You can't count any of the top tier candidates out at this early stage because a million different things can and will happen to shake things up in a 3 way race.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 02:46 PM

Of an Edwards/Richardson ticket or just of Edwards getting the nomination?

As to the latter, considering there have only been 4 primaries so far, Edwards still has a great chance at coming from behind, especially if it gets dicey between Clinton and Obama. He doesn't need to be the front runner at this point, to win a delegate battle at the convention in August.

I don't know why everybody thinks the whole friggin' shootin' match is a done deal after 4 dinky state primaries. Because the MSM says so?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 02:40 PM

One of the reasons I usually avoid these political threads is because other posters so often co-opt one another's posts. Alliances or aggression are thus assumed that have no basis in reality.

For example in the immediate responses to my post above...

1. I do not need anyone to tell me I am "right." Agree or disagree, my post is just a reflection of my personal thought process at the time of the post.

2. I don't post hoping someone will argue back who mistakenly assumes that I have "quoted" them-- further arguing back with "how" I "quoted" them. Agree or disagree, my post is just a reflection of my personal thought process at the time of the post.


Maybe it's an odd or rare thing, but I don't post in political threads in order to argue, debate, prove a point, etc. Reflection is my preferred mode of communication when it comes to politics. In that respect, I prefer the hope to the reality; because that hope is so often disappointed, I tend to just leave these threads to people who like stirring more adrenaline than reflection.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 02:36 PM

It would, but what chance is there of it ever happening?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 12:25 PM

Actually, I think an Edwards/Richardson ticket would be pretty tough to beat.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 12:22 PM

I think that ending the embargo of Cuba would do more to get Castro out of power (and that's what the "exiles" in Florida want) than anything else. Problem is, the "exiles" seem to think that they will then be able to regain whatever they had when Castro came into power -- and it won't happen. Time has passed, their grandchildren have grown up in the US. I doubt that those grandchildren care about the big deal grandpa was back in 1959 (nearly half a century ago now).

Obama and Edwards (or Richardson) could sweep the US, and I include The West. This "red state" (Idaho) is plumb sick to death of what's happening in DC by "their" party.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 12:10 PM

What need is there for Cuba to "cooperate" in order to end the USA's unilateral embargo?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:51 AM

GG - Yes, I can see what you mean. I took it the wrong way because it is usually offered the wrong way--I mean, on NAFTA and CAFTA.

                And it somebody were serious about the illegal immigration problem, they could go a long way to a solution by simply mandating that the migrant workers were paid an acceptable wage with benetits, industrial accident insurance, unemployment benefits, and etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:35 AM

Yes, that is what I meant when I said that Latino VOTERS look at candidate positions on CAFTA and NAFTA, which the majority of them view as disastrous as well as established to keep them out of the US, their economies as "third world" as the US can keep them to allow for cheap labor pools for US corporations, that sort of thing.

A US president doesn't have to get Cuba to cooperate. Ending the embargo would open the floodgates.

Funny how so few politicos of any stripe ever mention Mexico's oil too, innit? With at least 3.4m barrels per day, Mexico is Latin America's largest crude producer ahead of Venezuela and Brazil, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:28 AM

"Latinos are looking at very specific positions, like candidate positions on CAFTA, NAFTA, ending the embargo and opening relations with Cuba, etc..."

                Latino spokesmen sometimes say that's what they are looking for, but I don't think they often consult their constituents. NAFTA turned out to be a huge disaster for small farmers in Central America, and there's no reason to think CAFTA wouldn't have the same effect.

                Relations with Cuba would have little effect nation wide, it would relate to communities in Florida with ties to Cuba, and, of course, Cuba itself. But even if an American President wanted to do something with Cuba, how would he/she get Cuba to cooperate?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:26 AM

GG--

Good point on Richardson. But no use crying over spilled milk.

Obama is here--and a huge step forward for the US. And aside from the fence-- which, as I note, Hillary also supported-- Obama's record on immigration issues is pretty good.

i.e.--Rig can't stand it. (though he supports Hillary--whose record is virtually the same except for her pathetic waffling on the illegal immigrant driver's license question.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:14 AM

"Wanting something done" is an awfully big range of possibility. The problem with most positions on this issue is that they are venemous, bigoted, hate-filled, inhumane, and a breeding ground for future racial trouble.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:11 AM

Yes, but the fence isn't the solution Latinos are looking for. Solutions like the EU has with it's citizens, where they can freely cross borders back and forth to work, vacation, and conduct business. THAT is the type of solution Latinos are looking for--one that isn't based upon race, and recognizes the geopolitical importance of open borders for trade AND immigration, not just the former.

Latinos are looking at very specific positions, like candidate positions on CAFTA, NAFTA, ending the embargo and opening relations with Cuba, etc.

While everybody was screaming about race in SC and on the MSM this week, guess where Bill Richardson was?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:00 AM

While I think the fence is a stupid waste of resources, and was merely funded as a way for people in Congress to pretend the are doing something about illegal immigration, many folks lose sight of the fact that a large percentage of the Hispanic population in America want something done about illegal immigration, as much as most of the rest of us do.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 10:21 AM

Again, an oversimplification. The Hispanic population is increasing certainly--but I've just read in the WSJ--so sorry about the filthy capitalist connection--that though there was a huge drive which did sign up a great number of new Hispanics wanting to vote, they have been told the process will take over a year--so won't be effective til after fall 2008.

And there evidently are a lot of people in South Carolina who have had the vote for a while--but haven't felt incentive to support the top of the Democratic ticket. With Obama, that has changed drastically. And consider the new voters in New Hampshire. No reason to think one or both of these scenarios cannot happen elsewhere.

What's more, the "Hispanic vote" is not locked up for Hillary.

Among other things, Hillary voted for the proposed 700-mile long fence along the Mexican border. Even if some Hispanics don't vote for Obama--who also voted for the fence--they may not come out to vote for her either when this is made known.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 10:09 AM

Also, I think this is still a clusterfuck set up that doesn't reflect current demographic realities in the US. Black political power is waning, and Latino political power is waxing--again, that counting thing.

And none of the Democratic or Republican candidates seems to have that fact on their radar, except McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 10:06 AM

"Not over yet." I didn't say it was. But if Edwards signs on with Obama it will be over. Mostly since Hillary has marginalized herself--needlessly.   For instance, her stubbornness, in contrast to Edwards, in refusing to admit she was wrong to authorize Bush to use force against Iraq, has hurt her deeply.

The scorched- earth campaigning against Obama--implying, for instance, that he supports Reagan's policies when she knows he does not--has alienated yet more voters.


And there are still lots of unclaimed "superdelegates" who will ally themselves with the perceived winner--which the Obama/Edwards team would be.

Even in Tsunami Tuesday, unless Hillary sweeps the field--unlikely now--they will split delegates, and the nominee will be unclear afterwards

Hillary's coronation has been postponed--and likely cancelled.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 10:04 AM

You are absolutely right about the coalition building and some serious errors in judgment on Obama's part, Susan, and voters will start looking at that now that the Obama celebrity/rock star train is pulling out of the station in earnest.

As the primary season progresses (people seem to forget it is in it's infancy, and has a LONG way to go until it wraps up--Ohio in March, Pennsylvania in April, and a smattering of primaries in May that could end up making a very large difference in terms of delegates), Obama is going to have do some serious coalition building--and fast. But I'll give him this. With some of the heavy hitters from the Democratic Leadership Council coming out swinging for him this week (John Kerry & Tom Daschle), will undoubtedly help him. He is bound to get a big rush of significant African American endorsements now too.

But the Democratic Leadership Council without the Clintons can't deliver the South. And outside California, none of the 3 candidates can deliver the West (which is why we are now hearing from Daschle, but he doesn't have that strong of support and deep organization outside South Dakota, which is completely insignificant in the big picture). Look to see if Bill Richardson endorses anybody.

It will be an interesting couple of weeks between now and Super Tuesday.

I think the biggest news coming out of South Carolina is there is a big shift happening within the Democratic party itself, and the Republicans are completely demoralized because Obama just plunked SC in the possibly purple column in the general election.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 09:46 AM

Well, when I heard about this earlier this AM, my thoughts were that (A) Gee, I wish Caroline had entered politics herself at an earlier age because every time I have heard her speak about anything, I have been so impressed with her level head and her ability to so warmly communicate information and values; (B) has she just adopted Obama into the family curse. Not making ight of this-- he was already a target, and now IMO he is a bigger one. I fear for him.

In terms of national politics per se-- no it is not "over." The candidates still have to figure out how they will slice up the pie IF they win the whole pie, in order not to lose that pie to the opposition before they even get a taste. In that much, nothing has really changed, nor IMO can it change.

In that vein, Hillary has already been out-maneuvering Obama on grooming her Dem rival to be positioned as her VP (or any other high-ranking administration member). Obama has taken every bait she's offered in public, without knowing how to adroitly work around her little surprise invitations and co-optings-- poor skills that can only hurt him in foreign policy talks with other world leaders, eh? He may make a good president someday, but IMO not THIS day.

Obama will have to show me his ability to actually form coalitions instead of just talking about wanting them, to get my vote. And a little more experience on the Big Stage of world politics. I am just not sure where hae can gain that, outside of the Senate, without blundering the US into something scary.... I can't even see him at the UN just yet, much less in the Oval Office. Certainly not heading the State Department.


However there are many who prefer the hope to the reality, in life, if they even can discern the difference. It's an old, old political bamboozle to work that preference... with disastrous consequences for nation, world, and both party and candidate, when it works.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 09:46 AM

McCain vs Obama?


Here's hoping. And very likely. With McCain losing unless there is a serious national security crisis between now and the fall.

Since Obama will get not only the Democratic votes--enthusiastically-- but many independent--and moderate to liberal Republicans--especially any anti-war votes--including Republicans.

While Hillary would get precisely zero Republican votes, very few independents, and--since she has now poisoned the well she intended to drink from--would lose quite a few Democrats too--who just wouldn't vote.

Subject: BS: Obama annointed by Caroline Kennedy
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 09:32 AM

In the biggest shift in the Democratic party, we are seeing the liberal Democratic annointment of a conservative Democrat--Obama--today. From the Huffington Post to the New York Times, from the Hollywood set to the horsey set, the celebrity Dems are out in full force today for Obama.

Here is Arianna and here is Caroline.

So, is Clinton already gone? Are we looking at Obama vs McCain?