BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 06:21 AM

Thank you Roberto.

Providing examples is helpful, answers the question and clarifies your position for anyone reading the thread.

Bobad would do well to take note.


I am also curious to be directed to the actual posts that each quote came from so that I may see them in context.


And I look forward to seeing Carols response.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 06:00 AM

Roberto, don't get sucked into that game, remember what Humpty Dumpty said; "When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 05:41 AM

From The Irish Times this morning.
I was struck by the fact that an Israeli 'extreme right' isn't just a Hamas invention
Jim Carroll

WHERE BURNED AND BULLDOZED OLIVE TREES ARE MOURNED
MICHAEL JANSEN
Nablus,
West Bank
A GROUP OF RABBIS SEEK TO SHOW THAT JUDAISM SHOULD NOT BE EQUATED WITH THE EXTREME RIGHT
OUR minibus speeds past the dusty, deserted Huwara checkpoint, south of the northern West Bank city of Nablus. Huwara used to be a major obstacle, jammed with cars and people; today neither a vehicle nor a person is in sight. The road between Ramallah, the Palestinian Authority's administrative centre, and Nablus is open, except when Israeli troops decide to mount a flying checkpoint.
We turn east and make for the rolling hills clad in olive trees, their trunks dark and twisted, leaves green and silver. Most of the trees are young, perhaps half a century old, but here and there stands an ancient tree, planted hundreds of years ago, its trunk hollow, its branches bowed. Palestinians compare themselves to the rooted and steadfast olive trees. When settlers burn or bulldoze them, Palestinians mourn olives as family members.
These sunny, apparently quiet hills are a theatre of war.
"Palestinian farmers have a lot of trouble with settlers in this area," observes Rabbis for Human Rights director Arik Ascherman.
"We help the farmers plough their fields and pick their olives. Our legal department deals with expropriations. We also rebuild [Palestinian] homes that have been demolished and plant olive trees. [The fact that] we are rabbis sends a message [to the Palestinians] that they should not equate [the Jewish] religion with the violent extreme right" in Israel, Ascherman says.
He points out that after the Oslo accord was signed in 1993, Israel accelerated settlement construction. While Palestinians expected that the land Israel conquered in 1967 would be theirs, the Israelis planned to negotiate over this land and sought to lay claim to as much of it as possible. After the second intifada erupted in 2000, Israelis tried to "stop Palestinians from working their land so that after some years this could be claimed by settlers", he says.
"Ours is the only rabbinic organisation in Israel dedicated exclusively to human rights. It was established in 1988, during the first [Palestinian] intifada... For the past seven or eight years Trocaire has supported our programmes."
We wait in the countryside for Jamal, who bounces along the road on an elderly red tractor. "His own tractor was trashed by settlers," asserts Ascherman, who has come to work out with Jamal when to send volunteers to accompany him when he ploughs two large fields covered in golden grasses which nod in the breeze.
By law Palestinians should have access to their land and the army is supposed to protect them, but since settlers generally have a free hand, these rabbis act as human shields.
Upper Yanoun is a hillside hamlet with 200 inhabitants belonging to the same clan.
"In 2002 settlers came in the middle of the night and expelled the villagers," says Ascherman
"The settlers harass the villagers, burn their olives and wheat fields. The settlers enter the village constantly."
After coffee with Rashed, the clan leader, we proceed to a house occupied by four Ecumenical Accompaniers who are based here to deter attacks and report them to the UN. Pat Devlin from the UK says: "A group of 19 settlers came into the village, took the cover off the well, climbed down and swam in it. The army said they were 'brave youth'... They are taking land [that] villagers farm and use for grazing, driving down their capacity to earn an income," she states.
Back on the flat on a narrow road running between the fields, we spot a herd of gazelle foraging in the tall grass.
"Palestinians say the only good thing about the settlers is they have stopped us from eating all the gazelle," remarks Ascherman

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Roberto
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 05:22 AM

These are the quotations from CarolC in this thread I'm making reference to: "There is no reason not to trust Hamas. Their primary concern is the welfare of their people"

"If Israel were to be handed to the Palestinians, all of the Jews who wanted to remain there would be able to and those who didn't want to remain there would be able to leave. It would be a democratic state"

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:34 AM

Roberto,

Thank you for the reference.

Do you have a response to the rest of my post?


In addition, you stated:

"We describe the world without Israel as a world in peace, peace at last,"

Who says this and where do they say it?

"CarolC when she writes that Palestina without Isarel would be a tolerant and democratic State"

Where has Carol written this?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:27 AM

Here is footage of an Israeli boat before the landings.
Who would you say is attacking who?
How much incoming fire is there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sAEYpHF24&feature=channel

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 03:22 AM

Carol, your new video is not as clear as the previous one.
There is clearly a fight. It is not clear that a weapon was fired.
Here is a clear video of the landings.
At around 53 seconds, after numerous clubbings that would be fatal but for helmets, after a soldier is thrown to a lower deck, notice the soldier to the right of the picture armed only with a paint ball gun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Roberto
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 02:44 AM

mousethief. It has to do with this thread because it shows a lack of proportion, we concentrate out attention on Israel more than any other Country in the world, we denounce so called atrocities when Israel is involved and pay poor attention to many real atrocities perpetrated by Countries and political entities that so often unite their voices to our voices to condemn Israel as the quintessence of evil in the world. We describe the world without Israel as a world in peace, peace at last, as does CarolC when she writes that Palestina without Isarel would be a tolerant and democratic State and that there is no reason not to trust Hamas: this is about complicity.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 02:01 AM

CarolC. Now everything is clear. It was a matter of taxation. No taxation without representation, I suppose.

No, Roberto. It's about complicity.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:49 AM

What does this story about Afghanistan have to do with this thread?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Roberto
Date: 10 Jun 10 - 01:36 AM

Lox. You can find the story from many other sources. I've also read it on the New York Times site.

Adnkronos International. Afghanistan: Taliban 'hang 7-year-old boy for spying'
Lashkargah, 9 June (AKI): Taliban fighters have hanged a seven-year-old boy, claiming he was passing information to foreign soldiers in the volatile southern province of Helmand, the governor's spokesman, Daud Ahmadi, told Pajhwok Afghan News.
The child's shocking murder took place in the Sarwan Qala area of Sangin district late on Tuesday. The boy, whose name was not immediately known, was abducted from the village of Heratyan, Ahmadi said.

CarolC. Now everything is clear. It was a matter of taxation. No taxation without representation, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 11:32 PM

"bobad"

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: bobad
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:40 PM

"I see Ed has discovered passive aggression. Read an instructional book, did we, or watch a video on YouTube?

Ah well, as Carol says, if you don't have a cogent case to present, resort to other tactics."

Speaking of tactics mousey, I see you are well versed in the ad hominem attack tactic. Can you say hypocrisy?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:34 PM

"Internet killed the hasbara star

by Adam Horowitz on June 8, 2010 · 86 comments

One of the most striking trends following the flotilla attack has been how quickly Israeli hasbara has been exposed and discredited by internet journalists. Robert Mackey has a post on the Times Lede blog highlighting some examples today - Max Blumenthal's reporting on the doctored IDF audio of the attack and Noam Sheizaf's work on Turkish photos of the Mavi Marmara attack which contradict IDF claims. To these two I would add Lia Tarachansky and Blumenthal's work disproving the IDF's claim that the flotilla was linked to Al Qaeda, Jared Malsin's work confirming the doctored audio, and Ali Abunimah, who has been in the lead on many of these stories and lately has been reconstructuing the path of the Mavi Marmara to show it was actually fleeing at the time of the Israeli attack. All of this has appeared on the internet and are helping to shape the story, despite the Israeli Foreign Ministry's best efforts.

These efforts are helping to fill a crucial void around the narrative of the attack, as Israel still refuses to share the entirety of the video and still footage it confiscated from flotilla passengers. Israel has released snippets of the footage which they believe support their version of events, apparently believing that by limiting access to the footage they could control the story. This has clearly not been the case. Instead they are on the defensive, busy issuing clarifications and apologies. The one "success" in their hasbara effort has been the racist "we are the world" knock off which really only confirms how absolutely tone deaf many Israelis are right now to feelings around the world. The fact that this embarrassment is viewed as a success in Israeli circles has been termed "Hasbara Derangement Syndrome" by Israeli blogger Didi Remez. They ended up having to apologize for that one as well even though Israeli spokesperson Mark Regev "thought it was funny."

It seems that Israeli hasbara is getting a bit tougher in the age of the internet. I mean, who's going to believe "a land without people, for a people without a land" when there are ten YouTube videos to prove you wrong?"

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/06/internet-killed-the-hasbara-star.html

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:27 PM

The hasbara brigade has gone largely silent since I posted that video. I wonder if they're calling headquarters and asking for instructions.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: bobad
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:18 PM

"And you can of course post the source survey which produced that statistic?...or did you conjure it out of thin air?"

Do you use this forum only to air your anti-Israel rants and don't read other posts?
The source has been posted to this thread, I will leave it to you to do your homework.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 07:10 PM

I see Ed has discovered passive aggression. Read an instructional book, did we, or watch a video on YouTube?

Ah well, as Carol says, if you don't have a cogent case to present, resort to other tactics.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:34 PM

""Why in the world would 77% of it's Arab citizens say they would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world. Sure makes one wonder, doesn't it?""

And you can of course post the source survey which produced that statistic?...or did you conjure it out of thin air?

And you can state with authority, and supporting evidence, that the 77% don't have any issues with the way their country is governed, or with its treatment of their Palestinian brothers?

NO?....I THOUGHT NOT!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:21 PM

""So to say we must punish the people of Gaza because of Hamas, or that we can't negotiate with Hamas because it has committed acts of terrorism is really the height of hypocrisy.""

A very valid point Carol. Many of the terrorists who murdered British soldiers prior to and during 1948, ended up in powerful positions in the Israeli government.

Menachim Begin, ex prime minister of Israel, burned British soldiers in their tents.

It happened in many other places too, that ex terrorists became national leaders.

Archbishop Macharios
Jomo Kenyatta

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 06:16 PM

Here's the video (on YouTube) of the Israeli terrorists kicking and then shooting the passenger who is on the ground...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdA6jJ8dOZQ

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:58 PM

""I find it hard to believe that IDF commandos would allow themselves to be clubbed into submission without firing a shot if they had weapons to hand.""

They certainly had hand guns, which were resonsible for the multiple bullet holes in their victims, many shot in the back, or back of the head.

This has already been established.

Now, it is also known that some of those hand guns were taken by the defenders. None of them were used on the soldiers, none of whom were in fact shot.

This does not gel with the idea of a number of fanatics being prsent with the goal of becoming martyrs. If there is one thing we should have learned by now, it is that fanatical martyrs take as many as possible of the enemy with them to the grave.

It still reads as state sponsored piracy and murder.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:57 PM

"BB - You are indeed an honourable guy and I salute you."

Don't usually agree with you but........ ditto

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:55 PM

Thanks, Lox.


Roberto, my tax dollars aren't funding the activities of the Taliban. In fact, my tax dollars are being used to fight the Taliban.

So, number one: I am not being made complicit in the activities of the Taliban as I am the activities of the government of Israel, and number two: focusing on what people do with my tax money is my responsibility and is something that I am able to do. If Israel doesn't want me to be working as hard as I can to get them to stop doing what they are doing with my tax money, they should stop taking my tax money and with it, making me complicit in their war crimes.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:49 PM

"""We mustn't tire of reminding others: the blockade concerns only arms and the material needed to manufacture them.""

Such total naivete, and lack of rational analysis.

I am not going to bother to repeat the catalogue of items which have been denied the residents of Gaza.

Suffice to say, they include foodstuffs which could only be classed as very long term weapons, which might, in thirty years or so, cause an outbreak of heart attacks.

One banned item is concrete, which is needed to rebuild the infrastructure totally destroyed by the Israelis' somewhat unusual brand of proportionate response. Unless somebody here knows something I don't, there are no effective concrete weapons.

So, you are wrong once again.

Do try to keep up. There are a number of reliable sources for the fact that the Israelis are blocking essential humanitarian aid, and that the residents of Gaza are being deprived of sufficient food (i.e. STARVED).

They don't want Israeli assistance. They want Israel back inside its legal borders, and its nose out of their affairs.

Then they can, and will, rebuild, and feed themselves.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:49 PM

Joe,

I join BB and others in supporting Carols multiple posts earlier.

As she states, she was responding to a multitude of different posts, therefore it was useful to post several times to address each one clearly.

In addition I am also surprised by the tone of your post. It doesn't address the topic being discussed and it doesn't seem to be the neutral observation of a moderator.

I hope that I am right in believing that it was not about poking the funny unpopular girl with a stick for your own and your friends enjoyment, or indeed about reminding her who is in charge.

She has very clearly and rationally defended her view on the subject being discussed. If there is an issue with this subject being discussed then that issue involves everyone on the thread and not just carol.

BB - You are indeed an honourable guy and I salute you.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:40 PM

Roberto,

First, - you need to provide a link to that story.

Second, - if it is true then it is a terrible crimne and I utterly condemn it.

Third, - there are no mudcatters who will defend murder of a 7 year old by the taliban, so there will be no debate as everyone will agree.

So the discussion will end very quickly unlike this discussion where there are many who are defending the actions of the IDF.

Fourth, - The IDF are meant to be on 'our side'.

Who is our side?

The USA, the UK and Israel, alleged champions of democracy and human rights in the war against terror and alleged champions George Bushes new world order.

You will find multiple threads as long as this one about British and American atrocities for exactly the same reason.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:36 PM

Carol,

The video from the following post:

From: CarolC - PM
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 04:45 PM

Is not accessible to non facebook users and probably not even accessible to those facebook users who arent associated with whoever posted it there.

You may need to provide a new link to the original source.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Roberto
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:06 PM

Today the Talibans, in Afghanistan, hanged a child 7 years old as a spy. But our main concern is how Israel reacted to a provocation. Our We Shall Overcome is mobilized against Israel. A new atrocity. Only anti-sionism? Nothing to do with anti-semitism? There won't be a thread so many posts long for any other cause. That's our problem.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 05:05 PM

Changes the meaning somewhat, wot? ,/i>

Not at all. It increases respect for the courage and determination of Palestinians living in Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 04:49 PM

Of course they would rather live where they are than anywhere else in the world. That's where they're from! But if you ask them whether they would prefer to remain there under the present regime, or if they would prefer it if there was a different government, you would likely get a very different answer. But nobody in Israel is ever going to ask them that question.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 04:45 PM

This video shows Israeli terrorists kicking someone who is lying on the ground and then shooting him. The video says it's the young man who had US citizenship...

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=604238508&v=wall&story_fbid=114967525214151#!/?ref=home

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 04:44 PM

A lawyer provides information from legal experts explaining how and why the attack on the flotilla was illegal...

http://theonlydemocracy.org/2010/06/links-and-video-about-the-gaza-freedom-flotilla/

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: bobad
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 04:40 PM

Now, let's put that quote back into it's original context:


DonT, referring to Israel: "An oasis of fascism, racism, and discriminatory constraint, would probably be a more apposite description."

My goodness, what an absolutely horrible place that must be. Why in the world would 77% of it's Arab citizens say they would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world. Sure makes one wonder, doesn't it?

Changes the meaning somewhat, wot?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:45 PM

Why in the world would 77% of it's Arab citizens say they would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world. Sure makes one wonder, doesn't it?

Not at all hard to understand - elementary patriotism would explain it - "This is my country - it is where I belong, and I refuse to be driven into exile".

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:44 PM

"You don't have any arguments"

Of course not, when one knows everything, what s the point in arguing? No real need for multiples here?

"I'm not the only person who can see your posts. Everyone else can see them, too"


Duh, you got me on that one, I never thought of that. Stupid me.

I thought all mudcat discussions could olly be seen by you and me?
I will never get used to the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:43 PM

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/reporter-disputes-israeli-account-of-raid/?scp=1&sq=Lede

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:34 PM

Just as I thought. You don't have any arguments. So be it. Just remember, I'm not the only person who can see your posts. Everyone else can see them, too.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:30 PM

Sorry Carole, don't want to say much...in case it drives you to smearing language, eat'in popcorn on sofas, watching live feeds, or learning new hebrew words to post to impress the young'uns.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:28 PM

From your link, Ed -

At the most general, the applicable law is 'public international law' (PIL), which is the term for the law that primarily deals with interstate relations.

So tell me which states we are discussing in the context of the application of this law.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:22 PM

What do you know...can't let your guard down, around here. folks are sharp as a pin...when I was trying real hard to smear folks and know everything they come between me and my hat trick post'in record.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:19 PM

People make reference to "Carol's video" Egad, was she there also....If so, I move aside (from knowing everything, about every issue, may I add) to her first hand observations of events that sorry day.

I was not there. I was watching the live feed the whole time.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:19 PM

Dammmm...Carole wrecked my hat trick....

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:18 PM

Look at that....three in a row...Don't worry folks, the record is safe:)

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:18 PM

CaroleC (I like the French version) Take a breath....posting too often (in machine gun fashon) robs the brain of oxygen...it can get one light headed....and god knows where that will take the thread:)

I notice it's only the hasbara people who like to use these kinds of smear tactics. Like I said, when one has no legitimate arguments...

:)

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:17 PM

I stand to be corrected, thanks for the compassion, not the discussion, nor the obsession....not all of us are obsessively compassionate. You got me on that one....us folks that know everything deserve to slip up once and awhile....it encourages the naysayers, who are always looking for an opposite perspective and a comspiracy to feel "hard done" by.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:12 PM

Oops, I am getting the light headed disease myself....just talking about machine gun posting...and reaching the consummation of my last post, I forgot to add the site link..


http://www.thecourt.ca/2010/06/04/seizure-of-the-gaza-flotilla/

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:11 PM

"Hmmmm. Eight messages in a row from the same person. Is this a discussion, or an obsession? "
Please don't go down that road Joe - it's not the first time you've confused compassion with obsession.
Listen to Ed T. He knows everything.
Maybe - but he's not very good at verifying what he says.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:08 PM

CaroleC (I like the French version) Take a breath....posting too often (in machine gun fashon) robs the brain of oxygen...it can get one light headed....and god knows where that will take the thread:)

People make reference to "Carol's video" Egad, was she there also....If so, I move aside (from knowing everything, about every issue, may I add) to her first hand observations of events that sorry day.

Anyway, here is another site to fuel debate, shoot down and frown upon....should keep muddyfolks busy while I cut my grass....darn stuff grows like weeds lately (come to think, it may be all weeds...I say that with caution, as I do not want to be branded anti-senecio).

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 03:00 PM

Carol, if the ship had been fired on before the start of the video, why was it not mentioned?
The "cannisters" from the boats were mentioned.
Why did they continue to stand filming under a bright light?
They turned it off when the shooting did start.
You just want to believe that the Israelis instigated the violence.
There is no reson why they should, and it has never happened before.

It has been mentioned. Numerous times. Right here in this thread, even. I have posted testimony from several people who said that sleeping passengers were fired on before any of the Israelis had boarded the ship. Others have said that the ship was fired on but they were not close enough to those who were being fired on to know that they were sleeping at the time.

I also know that there were times when they did film in the dark. One of them is on the video. I also saw them turn out the lights on the live feed I was watching during one of the other times when the signal was not being interrupted. And while the light was off, everyone got very quiet and crouched down low. Keep in mind, Keith, that there were many people, myself included, who were watching these events in real time, except for the times when the Israelis had cut off the signal. I saw things that you have not seen, like a woman shouting to the people on the boats, "Don't shoot! We are unarmed civilians!"

I am going by the evidence of my own eyes and ears. You are only going on the propaganda that has been disseminated by the Israeli government. I would say that means that it is you who are gullible and wanting to believe what you want to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jun 10 - 02:54 PM

"Listen to Ed T. He knows everything"

Thanks for that endorsement, mousethief,finally, I get some recognition around here, though OI am fairly sure all would not agree with your assessment, and go to length to prove you wrong....but, get used to that:)