BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 11:30 AM

"If Israel treated Palestine the way the US treats its indigenous peoples"

Well, it's arguably better now than it was during the period where the indigenous peoples were virtually exterminated by white settlers.

I'm sure no-body blames people innocently born on land violently seized and occupied by their forebears - no-body can bare responsibility for evils of the past - but I'd suggest we *are* all collectively responsible for the actions which our people/government/nation undertake on our behalf in the *present*.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 11:23 AM

There weren't a whole hell of a lot of European Jews in Palestine before the late 19th century. I checked the history books.

If Israel treated Palestine the way the US treats its indigenous peoples (which isn't great, I will admit) then the world would have a lot less opprobrium for Israel. If all the Indians in America were put in two reservations, one of which the whites kept shrinking and the other of which they kept in a perpetual state of poverty and disrepair by deliberately blocking aid (and nutmeg) from getting in from outside, then maybe your analogy would be interesting. As it is, it's facile.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Peace
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 11:13 AM

`So I ask myself - if it were proposed that some indigenous population somewhere should be permanently displaced and dispossessed in order to create an exclusive state for the Gypsies, would I support that? And I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that I would not. In light of this, I now know that I cannot support the permanent displacement and dispossession of the Palestinians in order to provide Jews with an exclusive state of their own.`

North American native peoples would be very pleased to read that. In fact, your continued existence in North America speaks to the fact that you DO support the permanent displacement of previously existing peoples. As to who displaced who in the mid-East, check the history books.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 11:01 AM

If Israel really wanted Gaza to get aid, it would let the aid that is currently being offered (before the flotilla) get through. Making bogus rules about nutmeg shows what they really want is to subjugate. Gaza is a ghetto.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 10:47 AM

I just got word back from my friend in Gaza. She went to a Hamas office and asked about what the Hamas position was in regard to receiving the aid. She said they told her that they wanted the aid to come to Gaza with the flotilla. She said they are sensitive to the reality that if they accepted the aid from Israel themselves, instead of letting the people on the flotilla bring it to Gaza, people would say that Hamas was keeping the aid for themselves (and we know that the hasbara machine would do exactly that, because they have done it before). And she said that the aid has the blood of innocent people on it.

Another facebook friend who was heavily involved with the flotilla has said that if the government of Israel really wanted to hand over the aid, they could do it without giving it to Hamas. He said that they could easily give it to NGOs to bring to Gaza and distribute. He believes that Israel will not ever hand that aid to any NGOs. He was involved in raising a lot of money to supply the Rachel Corrie, and he says he doesn't think the people of Gaza will ever see the aid from that ship either, or from any future flotillas. But the flotillas will continue nevertheless.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 10:25 AM

I've gone through a long process of figuring out where I stand on the subject of whether or not Israel should continue as a Jewish state. At first, I felt that a two state solution was the best one because the events of the Holocaust necessitated a place where Jews could be in the majority.

But there are many Jews who have persuaded me with their arguments, that a state with a permanent Jewish majority can never work. They say that Israel will have to implement a permanent state of ethnic cleansing and discrimination against non-Jews in order to maintain a permanent Jewish majority. I think they are right about that, but I still was having a problem trying to figure out how to address the needs of Jews that arose in light of past persecutions.

A few months ago, I finally figured out where I stand on this with no ambiguity in my mind. The Gypsies have suffered all of the same persecutions as Jews have, including their genocide and attempted extermination in the holocaust. And they have not experienced any of the gains that Jews have in the last century. Jews are one of the most protected, if not the most protected minority group in the world today. Gypsies do not have the kind of protection that Jews have today, so their place in the world is much more insecure.

So I ask myself - if it were proposed that some indigenous population somewhere should be permanently displaced and dispossessed in order to create an exclusive state for the Gypsies, would I support that? And I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that I would not. In light of this, I now know that I cannot support the permanent displacement and dispossession of the Palestinians in order to provide Jews with an exclusive state of their own.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 10:15 AM

'Next time we'll use more force'

'Navy prepares for expected arrival of 2 more activist ships.

Israel will use more aggressive force in the future to prevent ships from breaking the sea blockade on the Gaza Strip, a top Navy commander told The Jerusalem Post on Tuesday.

"We boarded the ship and were attacked as if it was a war," the officer said. "That will mean that we will have to come prepared in the future as if it was a war." '

From the article by Eileen Read White quoted earlier -

"Hasbara, or Israeli political spin, is actually already underway – a multi-million-dollar PR machine, involving government employees, academics, friendly journalists, consultants, and activists around the world. CNN reports that, after displaying "a willful indifference to public opinion for years," the Israel Defense Force is trying hasbara on the convoy killings story, posting a series of heavily-edited short videos of the situation aboard ship on YouTube, showing only soldiers being hit as they arrived on board – no footage of the soldiers killing nine civilians.

Israel-related media around the world are running stories about the commandos landing and shooting their paintball guns – with zero reference to the fact that their real guns killed nine people."

A brutal ambush at sea

"Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons."

However the next paragraph ststes clearly.....

"One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations."

The 'rioters' or passengers, as perhaps they should be more correctly termed, presumably were not expected to use self defence in 'life threatening situations'

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 09:43 AM

There is no confusion here. Mark Regev and the Israel and AIPAC propaganda forces are saturating the main stream news media with their distorted and lying stories about the naked aggression against peaceful demonstrators. Disinvestment against Israel is one of the courses that must be taken. The IDF is the new KGB or SS.

We'll see what happens with the "Rachel Corrie" when it tries to get through.

It's the same as what happened in South Africa. The people of Gaza are in a canton.
They need their civil rights restored.

Shame on Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 09:34 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_clash

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 09:23 AM

As always happens in events of this nature, observers such as ourselves never are able to access the full facts & issues surrounding the incident.

However, what I've gleaned from overall info leads me to a conclusion thus:

The Israeli forces [I stress not necessarily representing all Israeli people as a homogeneous mass] violently attacked unarmed civilian vessels & their crews with military weapons.

The Iraeli PM & govt spokespeople in official statements justify these crimes as 'self protection' of their forces.

Pondering why it was necessary to kill people wielding sticks, knives whatever clearly protecting themselves, when there's other non lethal technologies available such as tear gas, tazers etc.

Consequently, its not a suprise I'm feeling [as most on here, & along with the rest of world opposition] that what's happened is murder.

I heard Bang Ki Moon of UN speaking on it, but sadly feel that group are paper tigers against the US/Israeli pact.

I could go on.............weep,,,,,,,,,join Amnesty International or similar..........

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 09:19 AM

B. B. Wolfe said, after the raid on the chicken coop by a band of roving wolves under his oversight, "I know how to investigate this raid from every angle and draw the necessary conclusions."

Good grief. They don't even try to make their lies probable anymore. Who was it that said if you repeat a lie often enough people will believe it? The Israeli government has clearly learned the lesson well.

Also accusing the UNHRC of not caring about human rights is ROFLMAO.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 09:15 AM

Well, one thing is fir sure... Isreal is at yet another crossroads and bickering amoung themselves... That sometimes is a good thing... Hope the reasobale people don't get shouted down by their Military/Industrialists...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 09:10 AM

It is confusing.....

"U.S. President Barack Obama stepped in to save Israel yesterday at the United Nations Security Council from an independent probe of Tuesday morning's Gaza flotilla raid that resulted in the Israeli navy killing nine civilians. Hopefully, Israel will express its gratitude to our nation by continuing its freeze on settlements in the West Bank and negotiating seriously with the Palestinians toward an end to the occupation and a solution for Gaza.

But a U.S. 'no' vote could not halt another U.N. body, the Human Rights Council – the group that commissioned the Goldstone Report – from today launching its own probe of the botched Israeli move to halt a civilian humanitarian aid operation for Gaza."

- from a report by Eileen White Read
a former Wall Street Journal defense, technology, and communications professional for international NGOs in human rights, microcredit, and advocacy. Currently working on an anti-genocide project at a Washington, DC, think tank.

Read White AND the Jerusalem Post are already referring to this as Goldstone 11

In April 2009, the United Nations Human Rights Council appointed South African jurist Richard Goldstone to lead the mission of investigating war crimes committed by Israel in the war in Gaza between December 27, 2008 and January 18, 2009.

This report concluded that both Israel and Hamas were probably guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity causing Harvard Law School's Professor Alan Dershowitz to call Goldstone "a traitor using his Jewishness to malign Israel… He is an evil man, one who allowed himself to be used against the Jewish people, an absolute traitor."

The Israeli government refused to conduct an independent investigation of the report's findings.

A senior official in prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said "Bibi is satisfied with the IDF's internal probe, the preliminary results of which were submitted to the United Nations" in early February.

The US representative at the security council discussions, Alejandro Wolff, has indicated that Washington would be satisfied with Israel investigating itself when he called for it to undertake a credible investigation into the murders on board the Freedom Flotilla

Ynet the Tel Aviv based newspaper reported -

' "Israel regrets the UN Human Rights Council's decision to launch an independent investigation into the raid before the incident ended.
Such a decision indicates politicization, not genuine concern for human rights," Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said Thursday.
Members of the so-called forum of seven ministers, including Eli Yishai and Benny Begin, are opposed to the establishment of an international commission of inquiry and have called to wait for the IDF to publish its own findings.'

"We'll know how to investigate the raid from every angle and draw the necessary conclusions" said Vice Prime Minister Moshe Ya'alon

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 07:33 AM

Ah, my fault. I'm muddling up the UN human rights council with the UN security council.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 07:26 AM

"the Geneva-based UN Human Rights Council voted to set up an independent international inquiry into the raid."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/10222131.stm

I'm a bit confused about this supposed 'independent' inquiry, I thought the US BLOCKED an independent UN inquiry, and instead successfully pushed for it to be conducted by Israel itself. Or is the use of the term 'independent' a fudge?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 06:17 AM

That point about the atmospheric water generator kind of smacks of "let them eat cake" anyway. Even if they did have one, how the hell could they use it if Israel won't let them have enough electricity to run it?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 06:00 AM

""I find it curious that people can find money for weapons but cannot find the money for Atmospheric Water Generation equipment which would benefit the population of the Strip.""

There were NO weapons aboard that flotilla!

And if they did find the money, purchase the equipment, and have it shipped over, I suppose in your fantasy world the Israelis would simply let it through?

ROFLMAO
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 05:50 AM

'Among the calamities of war may be jointly numbered the diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and credulity encourages.' (from Samuel Johnson In The Idler, 1758)

So what is the reality behind the bombardment of information from the Jerusalem Post and the vociferous number of internet 'programmed posters' that Hamas has refused the delivery of the electric wheelchairs on board the Freedom Flotilla

Amongst the reports which state that a condition of negotiation about the disposal of the aid is the release of ALL the detainees from the flotilla without exception (some are still detained for 'unspecified reasons') it is sometimes possible to spot the comment by Ahmed Kurd, Minister for Social Welfare in the Hamas government
"We also insist that the equipment be delivered in its entirety."

The Jerusalem Post (part of the CanWest empire) reports that Kurd 'claims' the batteries have been removed from the wheelchairs

It is a fact that batteries are on the list of goods banned from import into Gaza - the lack of fuel for the Gaza power plant has forced hospitals to rely exclusively on back-up generators, which are not intended for prolonged use and are often damaged.
The replacement parts needed to fix them cannot be brought in so hospitals try to use Uninterruptible Power Supply devices to reduce the risk of power cuts on sensitive medical equipment; however, these rely on batteries.

So do we assume that the battery units required to power the wheelchairs have been impounded under the current ban rendering the 'delivery' of the chairs an empty gesture or that the Israeli authorities have suddenly had a total reversal change of heart under the scrutiny of the world or go along with the Jerusalem posts allegation that "This proves the whole thing was a provocation"?


Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

..."I have had several hundred e-mails about this article. They are more or less evenly balanced between those who criticise it and those who praise it. I think I have replied to all.

I would stress that I looked only at the Israeli side because of the new factor - Israel setting up a special unit to improve the projection of its arguments around the world."

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 05:34 AM

""The pattern is pretty well established - Israel is provoked until it has no choice but to respond to the provocation thus providing those who hate them with another opportunity to condemn them and call for an end to their state. The response is Pavlovian as evidenced by the majority of posters to this thread.""

That is the best example of pure horseshit I have seen for many a day.

1. PIRACY! The aid ships were in international waters. For the Israelis to claim justification, or provocation, they would have to be inside Israeli territorial limits, or what the Israelis claim as their territorial waters (not necessarily the same thing).

2. The Israeli blockade is of dubious legality to say the least, and if it cannot be justified, then neither can any action taken in its support.

3. NO CONTRABAND WAS FOUND! Experience of the efficiency of Israeli Intelligence leads one to suspect that they would have known exactly what was, or was not, aboard those ships, in which case they were intentionally targetting a humanitarian aid shipment, with the intention of harming innocent civilians in Gaza.

4. Nothing that has been advanced or proposed as justification stands analytical scrutiny. This is just another case of the Middle East's biggest bully flexing its muscles in full expectation of support from the West's biggest bully.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 03:29 AM

Yesterday I heard an Israeli spokesman claim that cement was a banned import into Gaza (deperately needed to re-build damage done to schools and hospitals by the last Israeli incursion) because it could be used by Hamas to build military installations!! Following this 'logic' I assume that foodstuffs could be added to the list because it could be used to feed Hamas fighters!
I don't know how far the forged Irish passports incident has hit the world press. A couple of months ago Israeli terrorists used forged Irish passports.

From The Belfast Telegraph:
"Members of a hit squad that assassinated a top Hamas military commander used Irish passports to enter and leave Dubai, it's been claimed.
The suspected Israeli hit team, including at least one woman, entered the United Arab Emirates using Irish documents, police authorities said.
Mahmoud al-Mabhouh (50), held responsible by Israel for the abduction and murder of two Israeli soldiers in 1989, died in mysterious circumstances on January 20 in a Dubai hotel room.
The Irish Department of Foreign Affairs spokesman said yesterday: "We are aware of the media reports and we are in contact with authorities locally to try and determine the truth of the reports."
Al-Mabhouh was said to have been shocked with an electric weapon held to his legs and then suffocated or poisoned.
Iran and Hamas have blamed Israel for the killing, but Israeli news media claimed al-Mabhouh had many enemies and could have been killed by other Arab factions.
Up to seven people were said to have been involved in al-Mabhouh's killing, four of whom used Irish passports to enter Dubai and who later fled to a "European country" after the killing, according to police sources in Dubai.
Declining to reveal their identities, an official said UAE security personnel were co-ordinating with Interpol to have them extradited
A few years ago the Israeli's were reported to have sent one of their murder-squads to the Irish Republic to carry out the murder of a Palestinian seeking refuge here."

Nazi extermination camps were at their most efficient during my lifetime, so I grew up surrounded by horrific images of Belsen and Auschwitz. I'm sure I'm not alone in finding it extremely distressing to witness the persecuted having become the persecuters and resorting to many of the tactics used by their former 'ethnic cleansers' in pursuit of a two thousand year old myth.
This bunch are shitting on the memory of their own predecessors.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 01:17 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMq19qHq7Jo&feature=player_embedded

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 01:09 AM

I just got word from a source I trust that Israel has stolen all of the aid along with the ships, and has no intention of letting any of it go to help the people in Gaza. I'll keep an eye out for more sources of information about this for further verification.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:27 AM

By the way, one way people can help the Palestinians cope with the economic difficulties they face because of the stranglehold that the Israeli government and military have over them is to go to this site and buy some of their great products. They are made in Palestine by Palestinians (not in an apartheid settler colony). I bought a kufiyeh that was made in the last Palestinian kufiyeh factory by Mr. Herbawi and I love it.

http://www.palestineonlinestore.com/

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 03 Jun 10 - 12:08 AM

Oooh! Major PR coup! I can see a concert with big-name stars, raising money for cardamon and nutmeg and sunflower seeds to smuggle into Gaza:

BLOCKAID

Please give generously.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 11:42 PM

I understand about the lexdexia, Bobert, but I can't let this one pass...

Isreal is strengthening Hamas with it's blockaid...


Maybe that's what they should call the next flotilla. It's perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 11:34 PM

Ain't rocket surgery...

Isreal is strengthening Hamas with it's blockaid...

Folks root fir the underdog and Isreal is creating an underdog in Hmas...

Time for some serious rethinkin' in Isreal... Times have changed... Military might alone won't keep Isreal secure... This is a new deal here... People are too connected... Isreal is fightin' the "last war"...

I'd say it's time to get this thing figured out... Without the the friggin' militraists this time... They are passe'... They have nuthin' to offer...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 11:34 PM

Nutmeg and sunflower seeds. Those can be made into rockets. Put de lime in de coconut. That was about liquid explosives, remember?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 10:42 PM

Nutmeg is coming to destroy Israel

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:35 PM

Could that site be a spoof?

No, the hasbara people really are that dumb.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:31 PM

More reported weapons on the flotilla (I've left the url in): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PV4eiDi12w

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 06:24 PM

"I notice a lot of bouquets of red flowers laying around in that picture. I wonder what those are doing there."

Yep, lots of plastic wrapped bunches of red roses or carnations laying about on board next to that umm "weapon": http://www.flickr.com/photos/israel-mfa/4662965686/

Could that site be a spoof?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:59 PM

I asked one of my Facebook friends, a young woman who lives in Gaza, if she knows anything about the reports that Hamas has refused to allow the aid to enter Gaza, and this was her response...

"that news are just stupid lies !! well i think that they are looking for a way to make it a little bit easier on Isreal !! it is not not not true !! Hamas people still PALESTINIAN .. and they can not and would not do this !! they need it more than every body !!! how they could do that !!! Crazy westren news !!"

I will keep looking around for more information, though.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:36 PM

Thanks, Paul.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:31 PM

Java EXIF viewer from a dependable source, though it only gives the original date. You'll need to have the Java runime on your computer.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 05:10 PM

I don't know the process one would use to find this information, but this is what one of the commenters posted in the comments of the saw photograph. Maybe someone with more technical expertise can explain how one goes about getting the EXIF metadata from photographs posted in a site like flikr...


Hi. Just to confirm that the EXIF metadata points to this photo being taken in 2006:

barney@benchwood:~$ identify -verbose farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4662965686_a91f8 bab2e_o_d.jpg | grep Date
exif:DateTime: 2010:06:02 10:38:47
exif:DateTimeDigitized: 2006:02:07 05:52:19
exif:DateTimeOriginal: 2006:02:07 05:52:19


I notice a lot of bouquets of red flowers laying around in that picture. I wonder what those are doing there.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:40 PM

Lets try that again:

[From: CarolC - PM
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:31 PM
I should point out, for those who don't like to open links, those "weapons" weren't even planted. The Israelis didn't even bother to do that. They just gathered up some pictures that were a few years old, put them up on Flikr, and then they just waited for all of the useful idiots to go out and do their work for them.]

Link to Irael MFA's Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/israel-mfa/ (I've kept the original url in the link there, in case anyone's dubious about what they might be clicking on)

Can anyone explain to me, how so many of the posters in response to these images, are able (apparently) to ascertain that the images of the umm seized "weapons cache" are in fact way out of date, and thus not images of anything on board the flotilla.

Irrespective of whether or not the images are genuinely of what they are purported to be of, I find it a bit bizarre that the Israeli's would have even bothered falsifying 'evidence' of a "weapons cache" comprised of a kitchen knives, woodworking tools and marbles..

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:36 PM

[From: CarolC - PM
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:31 PM
I should point out, for those who don't like to open links, those "weapons" weren't even planted. The Israelis didn't even bother to do that. They just gathered up some pictures that were a few years old, put them up on Flikr, and then they just waited for all of the useful idiots to go out and do their work for them.]

Link to Irael MFA's Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/israel-mfa/

Can anyone explain to me, how so many of the posters in response to these images, are able (apparently) to ascertain that the images of the umm seized "weapons cache" are in fact way out of date, and thus not images of anything on board the flotilla.

Irrespective of whether or not the images are genuinely of what they are purported to be of, I find it a bit bizarre that the Israeli's would have even bothered falsifying 'evidence' of a "weapons cache" comprised of a kitchen knives, woodworking tools and marbles..

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 04:07 PM

Some time back, a friend of mine, while working on a wildlife site in a London park, was engaged with by a group of four lads spoiling for a fight. It was a very peculiar business (there was a territorial issue, over the lads continued attempts to remove fences from the site, I recall), in which the four lads, approaching six foot, but only 14 years old, claimed to be being picked on by my unarmed 5ft 8in friend. The lads had a metal tipped cricket stump. Eventually all was resolved, but one thing stuck in my mind. The claim by the leader of lads' friends that "he was only little".

Every time Israel gets into one of these situations, and tries to justify itself, I hear that lads' claim.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:35 PM

Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. I've also heard reports that none of the supplies ever even got to the Gaza border, and that the government of Israel has disappeared them, blaming it on Hamas (some of the reports have even suggested that the supplies have gone to Jewish settlements). I think I'll wait for more information before I believe that one, considering the Israeli government's track record of lies and what has happened to supplies from previous flotillas that were confiscated by the government of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:32 PM

If Hamas are preventing the Aid from getting through then they are undermining the efforts and intentions of the flotilla.

For this I condemn them outright.

Just As I condemn the Israelis from hijacking the flotilla and murdering the civilians on board.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:31 PM

I should point out, for those who don't like to open links, those "weapons" weren't even planted. The Israelis didn't even bother to do that. They just gathered up some pictures that were a few years old, put them up on Flikr, and then they just waited for all of the useful idiots to go out and do their work for them.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:22 PM

EBarnicle, shots from the helicopters wounded two people. We know this because the correspondents reported it in the live feed before the ropes had even come out of the helicopter that you can see in the live feed, and before any of the Israelis had left the helicopter.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:19 PM

beardedbruce, on the subject of the faked "evidence"...

http://ht.ly/1TaQb

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: EBarnacle
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 03:15 PM

CarolC: "All that stuff was planted." I suggest you read "Looking for a Ship" by McPhee on the subject of smuggling and inspections.

"Safeguarding the precious lives of innocents and respecting their dignity as fellow humans is the necessary burden that international law imposes on war." If you are engaged in a provocative act, you are a participant, not an innocent.

Of the ships in the flotilla, how many actually were fired upon? And by fired upon, I mean with more than a shot across the bowx. How many had violent incidents when boarded?

I know for a fact that part of police training amounts to the following: If the person appears to show any threat, pull out your club. If he pulls a knife, pull out your gun. If he still threatens you, shoot [now, it's Taze] him. We don't want you to be hurt or killed in the line of duty. Should soldiers respond any differently when threatened?

Hamas in Gaza is playing a wonderful game. While not officially at war with Israel, they make no effort to stop their so called militants from attacking Israel. These attacks, if addressed at all, are then disclaimed as the actions of militants.

I have spoken with members of the Palestinian Mission to the United Nations in the line of business. I find it curious that people can find money for weapons but cannot find the money for Atmospheric Water Generation equipment which would benefit the population of the Strip.

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 02:16 PM

There were a number of Arab Palestinians on board, some from Israel itself. They are not being released with the others.
One newscast said that a number of the Turks aboard also were being held.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:38 PM

mousethief: Golly I'm agreeing with GregF. Is it the apocalypse?

Sorry! I'll try harder next time ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:16 PM

The Israelis were also carrying hit lists of people they were supposed to try to kill. I saw one of them being displayed by the correspondents periodically on the live feed. Here is a picture of the hit list I saw being displayed...

http://www.kawther.info/wpr/wp-content/uploads/1-18.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: mousethief
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:13 PM

Ah, Hamas is playing politics with the aid shipments, therefore Israel was justified in attacking unarmed ships in international waters? Such logic.

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: Lox
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:09 PM

BB,

The Information blackout was imposed by the Israeli military after the attack began.

Up until that point, the flotilla had been 100% transparent, with numerous international parliamentary and media representatives on hand to ensure this transcparency.

It was the Israeli military who wanted to stop information getting out.

So who had something to hide?

Subject: RE: BS: New Israeli atrocity: attack on Gaza aid
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Jun 10 - 01:04 PM

source