BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Nerd
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 02:58 PM

Bill H, I wonder what the heck you're talking about. Who is Roberts?

And your statement that Dean had no clear definition of policy is absolutely absurd. He had massive detailed policy positions on almost every issue.

That's one of those claims always leveled by supporters of one candidate against his rivals. It's an impression people get because they only pay attention to their own candidate. It's also exacerbated in Dean's case by his media assassination; the media made an effort to prevent you from knowing what Dean's positions were toward the end.

Interestingly, right now, there are people making the same argument about Kerry on other threads, and I've corrected them too. There is no candidate for President who does not have clear positions on most policy areas. You simply have to look for them. The worst in this race was Clark, who began at the 11th hour and was unprepared at first.

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Susan A-R
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 02:35 PM

Well Dick, I don't know, but the real question is, if he does, does he get Killington, since it's trying to join New Hampshire. Life is always interesting here, that's for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Susan of DT
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 12:03 PM

(dick greenhaus here)

If he wins it two more times, does he get to keep it?

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Susan A-R
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 09:45 PM

I'm finding that it's a better and better place to be from. Civil Union, Howard Dean, and those seemed pretty reasonable to us here. Say, anyone out there get Bernie Sanders' radio show? I understand that it's not just broadcast in Vermont, and it's pretty interesting.

We're doing our best, and probably it's because community is still a large part of how we function. In a state where I know all of my state reps/senators, my city Mayor and select persons, and can chat with my senators, congressmen and governor (although we've elected kind of a Bush clone as our current gov) we keep each other somewhat honest. Maybe state populations should be limited to less than one million.

Susan A-R

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: LadyJean
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 11:37 PM

He's on the Pennsylvania state ballot. (God knows I took enough personal abuse to get him there!) I'm going to vote for him. Kerry voted for the Patriot Act. He voted for the war in Iraq. When Dean gained the lead by opposing them, he altered his views. (That's the nice word.) If enough Dean Delegates go to Boston, Kerry may alter his views about a few more issues.
Thank you Vermont!

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 08:06 AM

Dean will eventually endorse the nominee. But the more important question is, will he work to see the nominee elected, putting his considerable grassroots organization behind Kerry. Or will the Deaniacs leave the party and work and vote for Nader?

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Nerd
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:02 AM

I think and hope that Dean will support Kerry. He has certainly said enough times that he will support whoever the nominee may be. He also has plans for a new organization which he will be announcing March 18th.

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 03:02 PM

I think he should too, but I sure wouldn't blame him if he didn't endorse Kerry. The Kerry camp and the Democratic Leadership Council have been in cahoots since late December. Kerry became that "anybody but Dean" candidate they kept harping about needing, going into the primaries.

Nor would I fault his grassroots supporters for sitting the election out. They were kicked in the teeth and told to hit the road, metaphorically speaking, by the party machine. They have gotten the message loud and clear--you are either with us and our agenda, or you don't exist.

How long do the Democrats think they can continue to get away with ignoring and dispossessing their progressive and grassroots constituencies, anyway?

One filthy rich white guy is running against another filthy rich white guy, and neither of them gives a rats ass about the issues that matter to me. And I'm supposed to keep playing the "vote for the lesser of two evils" game because the Democrats say so?

Fuck the Democratic party.

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Frankham
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:54 PM

I hope that Dean will throw his support to Kerry. Then the Democrats will have a chance.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: DougR
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:50 PM

I would think he SHOULD have won SOMETHING after all the money he spent.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 08:37 AM

I can't believe anyone would cite any candidate's lack of foreign policy experience as a reason not to vote for them.

I give you, as a shining example, George W. Bush.

As to Dean being a hothead, that was a negative image created and propagated by the media, and their creative editing of Dean in his public appearances.

The media can defeat any candidate when they engage in that sort of devious manipulation of the images.

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Amos
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 12:44 AM

I think Clinton (Bill) would shake things up nicely but Hillary would poison the whole punchbowl. Sad, but I think realistic.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 08:17 PM

As it turns out the money did not garner the most votes. Kerry turned it around. Much may well be attributed to Dean's naivete and to his coming off--in the end--as a hot head. No clear definition of policy--just emotion. And--face it--no foreign policy experience. Roberts ditto--re: foreign policy. That is an important thing today given that our Pres. has really traded in all our credibility for a lump some of Zero. Hard to to ---but Dubya managed it.

Kerry (and Edwards) came across as someone that can beat--hopefully and prayerfully--Bush by bringing sanity and cool-headidness back into our culture. Shooting from the hip and sounding inane while doing so is a Bush signature. Kerry sounds and looks presidential.


My own pich for a great team for the Democrats would be Kerry/Clark. But, even better, Kerry/Clinton. It is consitutionally possible and allowable.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Alice
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 08:15 PM

Dean Meetup is tonight, here is a letter from the Gov to all who have been meeting each first Wednesday of the month to promote his ideas...

---

==========

MESSAGE FROM GOVERNOR DEAN to all MEETUP MEMBERS:

Hi everyone. Thanks for coming to another Meetup. It's been a long year
for all of us, and I want to thank you for taking us so far. No one ever
said that changing America was going to be easy. We have a lot of work
ahead us, and I hope you'll all stay with us -- our fight for healthcare
for all is far from over. We're going to keep fighting for equal rights
under the law, for investment in children, and for a national security
policy that makes America stronger by working with our allies.

On March 18th, two weeks from tomorrow, I'm going to announce more
details about our new effort. For this new phase to be successful, we're
going to need everyone to stay connected and involved.

The strength of our campaign continues to rest with you, our grassroots.
That's why I'd like to get your feedback over the next 14 days. At your
Meetup tonight, please use the feedback form to tell me (1) which issues
matter most to your group and (2) what actions you'll be taking locally
to support or elect like-minded progressive candidates.

And if you have specific ideas that you think of after the Meetup, you
can email them to us at [e-mail]

Thanks again for coming tonight. You guys are the best. Take some time
to celebrate all that we've accomplished together, and keep checking
DeanForAmerica.com for more information about what the next phase of our
movement will look like — and tune in on the 18th!

=========

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 08:03 PM

McG,

I read somewhere that 90% of all elections in 2002 were won by the candidate who spent the most money... Purdy sad commentary on the health of "democracy".

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 08:00 PM

Pretty bent system where money buys votes...

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 03:32 PM

Hey what the heck, most of it wasn't his anyway!
John

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 03:14 PM

Considering the amount of money he spent, he SHOULD have won something!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:32 PM

A crumb of comfort.
John

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Nerd
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:13 PM

He won overwhelmingly, too! Nice one, Vermont!

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: open mike
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:36 PM

too bad he can't just join kerry as the vice president and bring a strong team to the playing field!! California primaries are today..

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:27 PM

Go Howard, go!!!

Looks as if Kerry will take the rest, perhaps with the exception of Georgia...

Though I'm not too thrilled about Kerry, I hope that Howard will actively work towards getting Bush retired...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:16 PM

Love that kind of loyalty, eh? Good state, Vermont.

A

Subject: BS: Howard Dean Wins Vermont!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:11 PM

His name was still on the ballot, and his home state gave it to him, even though he was no longer in the race.

Kinda cool.