 sj |
||
|
||
Alternative Beliefs - a pattern?
|
|
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: GUEST,CLETUS Date: 10 Oct 00 - 11:30 AM I dunno whut ta beleev cuz I dun seen so many thangs that I dunno nuthin bowt. But them crop sirculs got moren wun way of splanin them. Like the time Paw fell asleep owt inna feeld and when he rolt over he ripped a biggun an flattened them beans all roundt him fer bowt 2 hunnert feet. Me na Buford figgert ta make a killin givin tours an all, but the smell wuz so bad fer dayz after thet nobuddy wud take the tour. Well it wuz that an the fact that some feller inna airplane took an overhead shot whut showed Paw layin rite in the center of that sircul uv flattened beans with the seat of his britches blown out so thet kinda put a dampur on the thang rite from the start. Wurze thang wuz thet we hadda pay ol man Timmons whut wuz the feller who oant the beans fur the damages sinz Paw dun killt the beanz. I do know thet I kin be purty dowtfull uv stuff myself cuz on sum dayz I haint reely shur I exist. CLETUS
|
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Penny S. Date: 10 Oct 00 - 11:44 AM I didn't notice that sign! Too busy looking at the geology and wondering how anyone with eyes could miss the situation! Those of you in the other parts of the world, the village is called Happisburgh (don't know the pronounciation), and the cliffs are unconsolidated glacial slurp. There were some brilliant shots along the coast of the series of low headlands with great waves pounding at them, and the waves were heavy with the mud, all brown water on the brown cliffs. |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Ebbie Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:07 PM I agree with youk Paddymac, when you say: First, many people(s) seem to be most uncomfortable accepting the existance of something unknown. Such difficulty might flow from any number of sources. Whatever its origin, it creates some degree of angst, and the simplest way to resolve that angst is to create an "explanation" for the unknown, thereby converting it to "known". But do you agree that that that statement applies equally to both sides? Skeptic, I'm sorry, I was being a bit flippant when I used 'turned on'. What I was implying is that even explanations tend to be trendy. As more information is gathered, explanations change. But when you say: As a skeptic, I would look at your experience, ask a series of questions, see if there was a way to reproduce the experience, maybe suggest a way to test it. Look at how the various explanations fit with the rest of what is known about the nature of reality.what are you saying? Are you saying that my experiences on the telephone (about 15 years apart) are repeatable/testable/explainable? I think that one reason that 'skeptics' so often charge gullibility, bad memory, suggestibility, whatever turns you on *BG*, to the people who report these things is because skeptics are uncomfortable with the unknown, that they may never have investigated, never allowed themselves to think about, the odd things that have happened to themselves personally. Because if we're open and aware, these things do happen. Ebbie |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: mousethief Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:15 PM I am afraid I must disagree with Ebbie, at least as to the universality of the statement "these things do happnen." I have never had anything even remotely "rum" (to use the British word) happen to me. My mom had poltergeist experiences, I have friends who have had near-death experiences, friends who claim past-life-type memories, know people who claim to have experienced angels, disembodied voices, etc. etc. but none of these things ever seem to happen to me. It's not for my being all that skeptical. Although I am somewhat empirical (to use a less laden word), I am also a religious person, although I have never experienced anything which you might call "mysterious" or "noumenous" or what-have-you. I think if an angel, or a saint, or a ghost, or a god, or whatever, were to approach me, I'd probably drop into a dead faint. Perhaps that's why they don't -- they're being polite, not wishing to harm me.
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Ebbie Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:28 PM Ah ha! Mouse Thief, (Do you steal mice or cheese??) an experience reported to you by someone you trust is, in my book, something that happened to you. So- what do you do at that point? Do you say to yourself, Man, I had no idea that s/he was so delusional or do you tell yourself, Man, there's a lot I don't know... Ebbie |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Little Neophyte Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:37 PM Ebbie, why I think you are onto something here about some people being uncomfortable with the unknown. Does Cletus exist? Absolutely, I can smell him way over here. Little Neo |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: GUEST,Amos Date: 10 Oct 00 - 12:55 PM 1. No, people do not remember everything correctly, not even as far back as breakfast in some cases. The ability to recall actual versus "dubbed in" or mangled realities is largely a function of the degree to which the individual is in good shape as a "viewer" -- meaning not overburdened with unresolved "stuff" of various kinds which add up to an unwillingness to see. 2. Serious trials in detecting original memory-recordings from under the layers of overlay, imposed ignoral and other strange beasts of the mind have been done, but not in a process that would satisfy strict disciplinarian clinicians. Despite this, the general tendency of the ones I have studied is that under circumstances where the individual is unthreatened and motivated to do so, accurate original memories of the most silly detailed moments from any past point in time are in fact available. This is debatable because as far as I know no-one has figured out how to do a rigorous clinical trial series in which the highly variable needs for communication, encouragement, and a non-challenging environment is provided while meeting the intentionally skeptical premises of what most people consider to be scientific methodology; it gets even trickier if you want to adhere to the tradition of a single-event, single-framework test pattern (like most physics lab tests) being imposed on the volatile and sensitive and often non-repeatable qualities of human thought itself. They really are fundamentally incompatible premises, these two poles. So p'raps we aren't going to solve it with a physics-based experimental approach. As for the distinction between experience and the interpretation of experience, there's a lot to be said about it; from one perspective there is a baseline of immediate perception of immediate experience which is actually available without the interposition of judgement, extraneous meanings, etc. From another perspective the whole source of experience IS interpretative in the first instance. Ther eis some truth on both sides. Must folks are a blended compromise between the two extremes. THis is anothe rproblem with "scientific" procedures approaching this turf: experience of physical objects is measureable and can be translated through meters. Experience is only measurable from the body out. But the delta between set "a" of neural inputs (pressure, light, temperature, sound) and sent "A-prime" of the experience of those inputs is highly significant and results in a huge additional variable which approaches the purely subjective. So who ya gonna call? A |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: mousethief Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:12 PM Eb- I say, "man if that ever happened to me I think I'd faint dead away." But reports from others are quite different from something happening to oneself, because they are always filtered through that person's belief system -slash- worldview, which never precisely coincides with one's own. One need not be delusional to be mistaken, or to misinterpret what one experiences. Of course if such things happened to me, and I were to tell you about them, then *I* would be the one interpreting and filtering. So I do not judge others when they tell me their tales; I don't necessarily agree with them or believe their interpretatin of their experience, however. But I don't discount or dismiss it because it doesn't fit with my worldview (if in fact it doesn't in any particular case), either. Thus I usually refer to myself as "agnostic" on these things. I just don't know.
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: annamill Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:32 PM I'm not a religious person, and I tend to be very skeptical in other subjects as well. Even the discussion of crop circles seems silly to me. There are just too many other ways these things could have been done to justify an decision that it was aliens. I haven't decided yet about 'beings from another planet' because I haven't seen all the data. I read my astrology reading almost every day and sometimes it's right on the money, sometimes it's not. I read it for fun to see how close it comes today. But I'm not about to let it dictate how my life is run. I'm not religious, so I don't believe in ghosts, etc. I have, however, had some really strange experiences that lead me to believe that my mind might possible have a strength unknown to me. Let me give you a couple of 'for instances'. One day, many years ago, before I went to college, I was sitting in my kitchen with my baby girl, watching the boob tube. I stopped for a second, and said outloud to myself, 'I wish something would happen to this stupid TV so I'd have to get up off my A** and dooo something'. I must mention here that the day was beautiful, clear, warm and not a cloud in the sky. My neighbor was out in back with her baby girl hanging clothes. A few minutes later, maybe a half an hour, there was a loud, shattering sound of lightning and a blast of bright light and everything in the house went off and there was smoke rising out of my TV. A little black cloud had passed over and released a bolt. My neighbor and her daughter were still outside, but now the mother had her daughter in her arms and was running for the house. I must say that I was more than a little surprised. My TV never worked again and a hall light that had never worked now did. Did I do that????? Another time, almost as frightning, caused injury to another lady and scared the hell out of me, so to speak. She used me by asking me to go out for an evening of just we girls. She told her husband we were going out and while we were out she met a man she had obviously set up a date with and left me without even telling me she was going. Boy, was I angry. I worked with this woman as a waitress and the next day at work she and I had a terrible argument and I told her that I hoped she would break her neck and spend all the money she made on medicine. Wellll, I quit because I couldn't stand being near her. A week later I met someone who also worked there and she told me this woman was walking into the kitchen with a tray on her shoulder and someone pushed open the door, forcing the tray into her neck breaking a collarbone. She was now at home till she recovered. Did I do that???? Coincidence you say (me too), but was it, or was it me? Love, annamill
|
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: annamill Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:34 PM Oh, and whats this about the bunny rabbit??? What do you mean he doesn't exist??? ;-) L,A
|
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: catspaw49 Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:36 PM Say anna.......Would it be too much to ask if you could tell me to "Get fucked?" Just wonderin'.......and kinda' hopeful........... Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: annamill Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:47 PM Sorry 'spaw. Evidently it would take a great deal of negative emotion and the only emotion I can get up for you is love. So all I can say is 'GET LOVED 'SPAW'. ;-) L,A. |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: mousethief Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:51 PM Annamill, I'm REALLY SORRY about the limericks I wrote making fun of you yesterday. I apologize sincerely and whole-heartedly and I'll never do it again. Please don't zorch me!
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Grab Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:51 PM Well, if you can, then it presumes either that you subconsciously know the future, or that you can control the weather and cause other people to do things. An individual controlling weather and people - unlikely. And knowing the future is equally unlikely since we can't rewind time. So either you're some immensely powerful sorceress, or it's coincidence... :-) Grab. |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Jim the Bart Date: 10 Oct 00 - 01:52 PM Watch it, Spaw, she might tell you to "F*ck yerself" and then you'd end up in the Guiness Book. |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: GUEST,Amos Date: 10 Oct 00 - 02:42 PM Aw, and here we wuz havin a seeryus conversashun. Wal, ya nivver know whatcha can do til ya try. Wun time ah decided to git ma truck up to a hunnert an twenny, and evvyone sed No Way, Hosay, cuz its a '68 with shellacked carbs,an'o springs to speek of... but Ah jes _knew_ ah could so Ah took out on the Gulfport road and got up to ninety; and I said, "Ah KNOW Ah kin dooit" and started down the long grade tuh the Misszipi bridge and got up to 104, but Ah wasnt gonna settle fer thet. Annyway, Ah knew Ah could do one-twenny. An' jess as Ah got tuh the bridge the left front retread come off and Ah went over the bluff which is 'bout two hunnert feet up fum the water...by accident, you wuld think... and by the time thet truck hit the river she was for sure doin one-twenny cuz the officer on the case tole me it wuz so. Weeeird, huh??? Scairy tuh think! A |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Ebbie Date: 10 Oct 00 - 02:50 PM Ah, but, Bartholomew, with a 6 foot one he can... Ebbie |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: annamill Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:07 PM MT, were you makin funname? Hadn't realized..hmmm... Amos, sorry I wrecked the conversation. Please continue. It was fascinating. Seriously. I was just pointing out how circumstances could mess up your resolve. Grab, my ex always says I'm a witch. ;-) L.A.
|
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Little Neophyte Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:08 PM anamill, those are amazing stories. So do you ever now become concerned that when you are mad, your thoughts might make something happen? Remember Ghost Busters when the guy was not supposed to think about anything, so he thought about marshmallows and manifested the Marshmallow Monster stomping down mainstreet? Little Neo
|
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: mousethief Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:26 PM Oh no, not me! No sir! I mean ma'am! Remember the rede: "an it harm none..." I'd hate to have my first numenous (sp?) experience be a painful one!
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: annamill Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:32 PM Neo, they happened so long ago and so far apart, I have to credit them to coincidence... they just make me wonder...know what I mean.. ..numenous.. ?? Love, annamill |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Bert Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:35 PM Nah! I think you must be a witch *tee hee* |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: mousethief Date: 10 Oct 00 - 03:37 PM Alas I was right, I spelled it wrong.
Main Entry: nu·mi·nous
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: annamill Date: 10 Oct 00 - 04:00 PM Thank you, Nonny. That reminds me of that song on the muppets- meno-min-nah -dada da dada ;-) I'm feeling silly - I think the pressure is getting to me. L.A. |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: mousethief Date: 10 Oct 00 - 04:03 PM I loved that song! It had a life before the Muppets, of course. We fogeys sang it as we drove through Menominee, Wisconsin. The young'uns hadn't never heard of it, of course! Menominee, beep beeeeee ba-deepy....
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: SINSULL Date: 10 Oct 00 - 05:17 PM hesperis, The Feeling Good Handbook was a basic part of my initial therapy. I was assigned the task of reading it and doing the quizes for the first few sessions. Then my therapist asked "What do you think?" I told her I was stopping my therapy and going to see Dr. Burns. In every case study, he claims that after "One or two more sessions" his patient was well on his way to "normal". I on the other hand was still a mess after two months with my therapist. His list of pitfalls and explanation of how to identify and correct your misinterpretation of a situation is still my bible. His ego annoys the hell out of me. At times, I wanted to smack him. Be forewarned. Mary, grateful to the good doctor but able to see his "misinterpretations" too. |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: mousethief Date: 10 Oct 00 - 05:23 PM "Feeling Good" (the book) is a great thing. I still needed the meds and I still had to work through a ton of other things that were not related to faulty inner scripting (or whatever the term was), but it did help a great deal.
Alex |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 10 Oct 00 - 06:03 PM First, let me identify myself so that what I say can be taken in context. I, too, am a skeptic (thank you for pointing out the spelling, WyoWoman.) (And a pedant too.) Take everything I say with that in mind. I don't say that all believers in astrology-cropcircles- UFOs-pyramids-crystals and what have you fit into this, but it is my observation that some people have an ABSOLUTE HUNGER for mystery, for marvels, for conspiracy theories, and so forth, and as such rush to embrace lines of thought (if such it may be called) that are strange just because they are strange, and latch onto them with an iron grip--not tentatively, not provisionally, but as home ground that must be defended. Dave Oesterreich |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Amos Date: 10 Oct 00 - 08:08 PM Sure, a lot of people are motivated to enforce unreality because they cannot stand reality. But there are probably as many who are more interested in expanding "reality" and find broader insights, than they are in just refuting it. A |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Amos Date: 10 Oct 00 - 10:13 PM Anna: Personally I think you exercised an ability to broadcast an intention with great clarity, and the universe sorta fell in along with it. That's my opinion. But that sort of ability in most people I've seen tends to be sporadic, just as you describe, and can easily be self-suppressed if you feel it is going to cause harm. It's that native "goodness" in ya coming forard. (I think they had it coming, myself! :>)) Love, A |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) Date: 10 Oct 00 - 10:23 PM OK, I believe that it's possible to waterski through a revolving door,and I believe that Allan C and Amos and Little Neo respectively could each ski through your own revolving doors but I dont' think Little Neo could follow Amos through the SAME revolving door. No way. Huh-huh. Rich |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Amos Date: 10 Oct 00 - 10:42 PM That's alright. I'm a gentleman and I will hold the revolving door for her while she skis through it....um....er.... A |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Little Neophyte Date: 10 Oct 00 - 11:00 PM That is because Amos wants to unsnap the back of my bikini top when I fly by. Little Neo |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Bill D Date: 10 Oct 00 - 11:29 PM ooohhh...dangerous thread creep...*big grin* |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall) Date: 10 Oct 00 - 11:31 PM I believe this thread could get more interesting real soon;-> Rich |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Amos Date: 11 Oct 00 - 01:01 AM Bonnie, much as I admire the insight you offer, imagine the consequences if you did such a thing, while I held the revolving door with one hand and tried (in the few milliseconds available) to intercept the back of your bikini top. In the next instant I would lose my arm as you slammed into the next panel of the revolving door (or your tow boat did) and your would transubstantiate from D-positive to C-negative. No, not your blood type, either! Love, Amos |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Little Neophyte Date: 11 Oct 00 - 08:04 AM Amos, how did you know I was a D-positive? You must be clairoyant or something. Love Bonnie who would not want to see you lose your arm and not be able to play the beautiful music you create. |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock Date: 11 Oct 00 - 08:36 AM Perhaps this should fit in the maths thread. Given that "anything is possible, with the exception of waterskiing through a revolving door", we aim to use scientific method to calculate the actual probability of said occurence. It is presumed, for these purposes, that there is nothing strange in finding a revolving door in the middle of an expanse of water used for recreational sporting activities. Now, lets calculate: a) the speed of the revolving door b) the speed of the tow boat c) the fastening of Bonnie's bikini (clasp or knot?) d) the speed of Amos' reaction e) the prevalent atmospheric conditions (e.g. tide, windspeed, current etc.
|
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Oct 00 - 08:53 AM Your math is probably OK Fib, but you keep getting hung up on "c" and forget to carry the 3. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Grab Date: 11 Oct 00 - 09:36 AM Re waterskiing through revolving doors, have we finally found a trick they've not showed on James Bond?! There's certain practical problems here. A speedboat is fairly wide, so either Bonnie would have to ski close to the side where Amos was stood, or Amos would have to be hanging by his knees from the top of the doorframe and reach down. Alternatively, Bonny could drop the ski handle on one side of the door and skid through the door under momentum, although she'd sink shortly after the door. Of course, no-one specified the size of the door. If it was a revolving door 1/4 mile, there's no problems. Grab. |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock Date: 11 Oct 00 - 09:40 AM That's where my reasoning fell down! I wasn't considering a large enough scale! (And I forgot to carry the 3.) |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:05 AM Huge improvement in this thread!!! Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Little Neophyte Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:14 AM I'm not that big you know. Getting me through the door should be a breeze. I don't mind sinking after that whole thing is over. My built in flotations will bring me back up to the surface. Bonnie |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock Date: 11 Oct 00 - 11:47 AM Hmm, getting the speedboat through the door required a bigger door, but yes, the "letting go" thing might work... Bonnie, the worry now is that you need to slow down enough to engage Amos' reflex bikini contact, and also so you don't hit the glass of the revolving door as they tend to move at a much slower speed. Is there a mathematician in the house???? |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Ebbie Date: 11 Oct 00 - 12:03 PM Alternatively, I believe that Little Neo could balance herself on the water ski and Amos could rush at her from behind with the revolving door. Given that A. could reugulate his speed of closure, it sounds easier done. Ebbie |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Bill D Date: 11 Oct 00 - 03:52 PM lessee.....half of 12 is 7, then you carry the square root...hmmmm...I give it 1023 chance...
(half of XII IS VII.....look... |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Bill D Date: 11 Oct 00 - 03:56 PM (the preceeding is why I majored in Philosophy...them math courses wanted exact answers...not clever rhetoric) |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Wolfgang Date: 12 Oct 00 - 05:54 AM Sorry, I'm coming late to this thread and I'd like to revolve it back for a moment: Ebbie writes skeptics will often lay it to whatever turns them on- whether it's suggestibility, ignorance of 'science', hallucination, stupidity.. Ebbie, I'd be sad if you'd only remember the bits that sound offending from sceptics arguments. Imagine you cut a lemon in two halves, squeeze one half slightly and lick at the open side. What do you feel? I'm safe to bet you produce more saliva than in the seonds before the thought and even smell or taste that lemon. You smell it from your memory of how it smells and I can assure you that the very same neurons are involved in your head as in real smelling. My picture was enough to evoke these percepts without any real lemon being involved. Nothing unusual with that. And there's perception without awareness. It means that you have processed some information by your usual senses but this information has not entered your consciousness. Nevertheless this information may influence later actions by or feelings of you. Like if you hear a very slight change in the inflexion of the voice of a friend (or a different timing of the word flow) and you get a hunch that something has happened or will happen without ever knowing what the sensory origin of that hunch was. In my present opinion: Special ability? Yes. Supernatural ability? No. Just trying to show that not all sceptic explanations are offending. The original question of this thread is poorly worded: If you mean, Fmaj7, whether there is a higher probability for a believer in astrology also to believe in reincarnation and supernatural explanations of crop circles (compared to a person drawn randomly from the population) the unequivocal response from several surveys is: yes. If you mean as implied in your actual question whether all persons believing in astrology also believe in...the obvious answer is: no, as shown in many responses. People are very variable as individuals, but nevertheless there is a pattern if you average across many individuals. Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Skeptic Date: 12 Oct 00 - 07:59 AM In keeping with the spirit of the thread, the solution to the waterski problem seems obvious. De-materialization. It avoids the need for messy mathematics or Gibralter sized revolving ddors. Amos, The body of evidence dealing with how memory works is extensive. Intersting stat is that 70% of the general public and over 50% of practionioners believe just that. It is very true that you can remember detailed minutae. I remember distinctly the wallpaper in my bedroom when I was 4.(verified by my mother) What I don't remember is more interesting. Was there a rug? What did anything else in the house look like? Current theory of how the brain works (sorry, its very mundane and based on the principal that brain and mind are the same thing). And it is a theory. Gets back to the preponderance of the evidence. The book "Making Monsters" covers this concisely. (sorry, don't remember the author). Ot would appear (and there are some pretty good experiments, that what we remember has less to do with what happened and more with what we want to believe happened. Tee "A" , "A Pime" arguement brings to mind the old dictum that extraordinary ideas should require extraordinary prrof. Hope I ma not misinterpreting what you're saying, but it sounds like the brain/mind arguement. (or spirit if you prefer). To move it from the realm of pure belief would require extraordinary proof. And that seems lacking. Though I'd be interested in citations demonstrating such. Ebbie, My point was that, if you accept the current models of how the brain and memory work, what you "remember" from 5 minutes ago in in serious doubt, let alone 15 years. Because you "know" it happened doesn't mean a lot to anyone other than you. And consider the implications of remote sensing. (somehow "remote smelling" sounded a little to silly). Soem form of undetectable energy, that seems to go against some of the basic "laws of nature" that (so far) work from the quantum to the marcocosmic level. And posit that the human brain can sense such an energy. And that it isn't detectable by any other means at our disposal. That inverse square, conservation of energy and so on are special cases, and (apparently) universal. As to your specific experience, the back door question is, Okay, 2 calls out of how many over 15 years. Did either of you make soem casual comment that would have lead you to guess something was cooking? What time of day? How do you get chocolate chip cookies out of waffles? (Please understand my culinary ability is limited to heating up things in the microwave. Or Pizza Hut delivery) And finally a skeptic who refuses to look at the unknown, discuss and consider the possibilites, isn't worthy of the name. You need to associate with a better class of skeptics. Regards John |
|
Subject: RE: Alternative Beliefs - a pattern? From: Wolfgang Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:45 AM helping John's memory: 'Making Monsters', by Richard Ofshe and Ethan Waters. Wolfgang |
| Share Thread: |
