Nic Jones Guitar Technique

Subject: NIC JONES GUITAR TECHNIQUE
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 18 - 10:44 AM

A question for experienced guitarists,tdo what extent do people think there is an influence from the 5 string banjo

Subject: RE: NIC JONES GUITAR TECHNIQUE
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 07 Dec 18 - 12:30 PM

What style of 5 string banjo? Scruggs? Keith? Clawhammer?

My impression from seeing him many years ago was that he used a thumb pick bith up and down. i’ve never seen a banjo player do that!

Subject: RE: NIC JONES GUITAR TECHNIQUE
From: Howard Jones
Date: 07 Dec 18 - 12:43 PM

That percussive strike which is such a distinctive feature of his playing is possibly reminiscent of clawhammer, but he didn't really play in a clawhammer style. I would say very little banjo influence - if there is any it probably came via other guitar styles and is heavily diluted. I don't hear anything in his playing which makes me think "banjo".

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 18 - 01:45 PM

ok,Ray. Roscoe Holcomb did that,
the percussive damping is reminiscent to some extent of hitting a 5 string on banjo and damping, and playing melody up[ when he played melody] pete seeger style, of course Nic did a lot more than play melody in open tuning. the tuning cgcgcd could be derivative of a banjo double c or alternatively banjo gdgcd known as sawmill

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Stanron
Date: 07 Dec 18 - 01:59 PM

I'd always assumed that that part of his technique came from the playing of John Martyn. John Martyn was a great innovator of guitar technique. There was his percussive style, his experimentation with tunings and later his use of electronics along with the acoustic guitar. The way Nic used tunings and percussion were different but back then everyone was experimenting. The guitarist who led the most was Davy Graham but for the combination of picking and percussion I'd go for John Martyn.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Dec 18 - 02:55 PM

this thread is specifically about Nic Jones

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Dec 18 - 04:09 AM

Stanron - I've always thought there was a distinct link between Nic's playing style and John Martyn's. The period in which Nic was at his most active was one of experimentation amongst players, and I'm pretty sure they fed off each other at the same time as developing their own styles.

When I listen to Nic, I don't think 'banjo', but I do think 'John Martyn'.

Now if anyone wants to listen to a banjo-influenced guitar-style, try Molly Tuttle, flat-picker and guitar-frailer extraordinaire!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Dec 18 - 04:33 AM

I would guess that Bert Jansch was his main inspiration plus all the other 60s players - Davy, Martin etc - impacting his playing, as well.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 08 Dec 18 - 06:16 AM

I hear the authentic sound of Nic Jones on a guitar. His style had more variety than he is given credit for. The percussive hammering style did exist before him but he applied it how he felt he wanted it and in that, his influence must have been sitting on the settee adapting it till he was happy.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: graham_t
Date: 08 Dec 18 - 06:37 AM

An article by Mike Raven describing Nic's guitar technique is still online here

https://www.folkmusic.net/htmfiles/inart_nicjones_guitarstyle.htm

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: GUEST,johnmc
Date: 08 Dec 18 - 02:01 PM

The various guitaristic effects are all as described, but when I hear his accompaniments
I hear amazing musicality. Harmonised bass lines, incredible chord voicings, contrapuntal
sections etc.
" Courting is a Pleasure " is such a textured, atmospheric accompaniment and I don't
know of anything else like it.
I also think this came so easily to him (relatively speaking) that he genuinely doesn't
realise how good it was,
Can anyone think of anyone better in the genre ?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: John Robinson
Date: 09 Dec 18 - 09:22 AM

I play fingerstyle guitar, but I don't sound anything like Nic. Having said that, I don't think that Nic's style has anything to do with clawhammer banjo. He used open C tuning a lot, and a percussive technique which involved flicking the strings with the back of his nails somewhere near the guitar's bridge. This interview on Bright Young Folk should help a lot. Plus, Nic is a huge Bob Marley fan - probably because of Bob's unconventional time signatures.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 09 Dec 18 - 10:30 AM

Mike Raven once wrote that he wished Nic didn't use altered tunings but rather played in standard tuning, and that is probably the daftest thing Mike ever said.
Interestingly, old time banjo players do use an amazing amount of altered tunings; indeed, the wondeful Art Rosenbaum has a book devoted to dozens of altered tunings.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 03:58 AM

of course like all good musician, his technique evolved and changed, his first two lps are quite diferent from penguin eggs.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzo7fADr_50, annanwater that was recorded in 1970, and is lacking the percussive later style
the first recording which[i think] was demonstrating the percussive style was noahs arktrap 1977, sometime bteween 1970 and 1977 his style evolved
Wikipedis [which is not always the last word on everything] says
Another important feature was a regular percussive sound made by striking downwards with the middle and ring fingers of the right hand on damped bass strings close to or above the bridge of the guitar. This is akin to the technique used by banjo players called frailing. This can be heard to good effect on such Jones tracks as "Ten Thousand miles" (on The Noah's Ark Trap, 1977) and "Master Kilby" (on From the Devil to a Stranger, 1978). Jones also skilfully used selective string damping to achieve other percussive effects such as on "Billy Don't Weep For Me" (on From the Devil to a Stranger).

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: GUEST,Richard
Date: 10 Dec 18 - 06:22 AM

Another feature of the playing of Nic Jones, John Martin, Bert Jansch etc. style is the RH falling on to the strings to damp them with a percussive noise; often followed by a syncopated or of-beat thumb stroke. Along with the frailing stroke, it seems to fit into a rhythmic groove, where something has to happen on a particular beat that doesn't seem to want a picked note. To me, it seems like a physical thing; once the rhythm gets going, it's almost instinctive, like a drummer deciding what to hit on which beat; so long as it's something. Like Howard Jones above, I don't see it as a banjo style, just something guitarists have developed along a parallel path. I hope that makes some sort of sense.
Richard

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar HUMPBACK WHALE
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Mar 25 - 06:55 AM

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Fred
Date: 15 Mar 25 - 07:40 PM

There's some confusion here over what clawhammer banjo is :)

Fred

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Fred
Date: 15 Mar 25 - 08:53 PM

I've never heard Nic play so can't comment but here's clawhammer banjo and YOU decide if there's a likeness:

So the hand is a relaxed claw shape that never alters. The pointer or middle finger (player's choice) strikes the 3rd string, followed by a brush down across the lower 2 or 3 strings, ending with the thumb plucking the 5th string.
Now, after striking the 3rd string, the pointer or middle will often hit the head, and the hand motion is like knocking at a door..

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers
Fred

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Fred
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 03:55 AM

I should add that the fingers don't flick and there's no dampening, not in traditional clawhammer.

Fred

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 04:19 AM

Clawhammer technique transferred to guitar by the superb young guitarist and banjoist, Molly Tuttle.

I saw Molly at the Greystones, Sheffield, in 2019 - absolutely brilliant show, and a very nice young lady to chat to.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Fred
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 04:30 AM

Backwoodsman- perfect example. You can see the 'knocking' hand motion. There's no up-picking and no flicking


Fred

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 04:34 AM

Cumberland Gap/Cripple Creek performed by Steve Baughman. Doesn't sound much like Nic Jones to me.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 04:40 AM

Yep, that’s what I saw too Fred. And I agree with Gilly, nothing at all like Nic Jones. Nic’s technique was frequently ‘percussive’, but nothing like Clawhammer.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Fred
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 04:55 AM

I've just listened to Nic. That kind of thing always takes me back in time and makes me think Fylde or Lowden - no bad thing at all.

Fred

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: gillymor
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 05:09 AM

Canadee-I-O by NJ.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Fred
Date: 16 Mar 25 - 05:35 AM

They are not similar styles at all (to me) but both are enjoyable in their own way and thanks to The Sandman for sharing.

Fred

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Mar 25 - 05:54 PM

The style he used latterly tends to force the song in to a rhythmic pattern, which is great when it is a song that requires that approach.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Mar 25 - 02:55 AM

Of course there are some songs which require a freer style of accompaniment.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones Guitar Technique
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 22 Mar 25 - 09:47 AM

The linik to the article by Mike Raven describing Nic's guitar technique given by graham t on 8 December 2018 no longer works, but the article now appears here:

The detail of Nic's technique is at the end of the article.

LFF