BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 09:35 PM

Ron Paul, eh? He who would sup with the devil should take a long spoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Lox
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 09:42 PM

Nonetheless - thanks Bobad for that post

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 09:48 PM

Wow, bobad, very surprising! And yet, strangely, very evenly and reasonably argued.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 10:08 PM

Ake, ol buddy... I hate to say it but, ahhhhh, me thinks that you are trying fight the last war... I mean, life goes on... This is a new day and with it new problems and opportunities...

Build the center...

Hey, when black people wanted to have equal opportunity to attend the better funded schools in the South there were plenty of white people sayin, "Whoa, not so fast"... It's the nature of people, Ake, and I hate to say it but your are soundin' alot like those "Whoa, not so fast" folks...

Build it!!!

BTW, there weren't any cheering comin' outta my house on 9/11/01 and I dare say that that was the same in just about every house in the USA... Yeah, I hated Bush's stealing of the election but compaired to what I felt on 9/11 that election theft wasn't squat...

Weren't no cheering parties on this side of the pond...

Build it!!! This is America... Not some 3rd world country...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 10:47 PM

The Landmarks Preservation Commission approved plans for the Muslim Center, usually the final step in the approval process, but several groups, including NY Firefighters, are planning on contesting the project in court.
It should be built, but look for a long, drawn out battle. It probably will topple the mayor, who supports it.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 03:54 AM

I would point out that Ron Paul repeatedly and wrongly calls the proposed building a mosque. This despite his apparent support for the right to build the cultural centre worries me, as does his rooting his support in the rights of private property. That is not truly the central point - it is of constitutional equality under the law.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: bobad
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 08:43 AM

Christopher Hitchins wades into the "Ground Zero Mosque" debate:

http://www.slate.com/id/2264770/

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 08:56 AM

>>>McGrath of Harlow - PM
Date: 23 Aug 10 - 07:20 PM

That doesn't actually sound all that different from what is proposed for "Cordoba House":

"The Cordoba Initiative...is a multi-faith non-profit organization whose aim is to improve relations between different communities, and in particular between the Muslim world and the United States of America.

The proposed community center in Lower Manhattan will serve as a platform for multi-faith dialogue. It will strive to promote inter-community peace, tolerance and understanding locally in New York City, nationally in America, and globally." (From here) <<<


Where Cordoba House goes wrong though, McGrath, is that it is first and foremost a Mosque. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But to have a multifaithed 'religion' of Faith, you have to have Neutral Ground on which to build it.

Where better to build that than upon the very ground where Christians, Muslims, Jews, and probably many other folks from other religions died.

Let what rises from the ashes of Ground Zero be something Unique and Extraordinary, where all religions are intermingled and united for the Common Good and Peace of the World.

Now that would truly make terrorists of all religions weep in anger...

We have to move forwards, not backwards, if we are to survive as a Species...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 08:59 AM

"... the centre will very likely get bombed.

Yup, we have met the Terrorrists, and them is us.

... and a lot of "ordinary folk" will take satisfaction from that happening.

Yep. taking pleasure in acts of terrorism. The American Way.

This is America... Not some 3rd world country...

Give it a little time, Bobert - can't turn The Land Of The Free And The Home Of The Brave into a 3rd world shithole overnight. But they're making good progress...

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Lox
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 11:01 AM

"Where Cordoba House goes wrong though, McGrath, is that it is first and foremost a Mosque"

Lizzie, please pay attention.

It isn't going to be a Mosque at all - foremost or lastmost - just-not-at-all-most.

ok?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 11:20 AM

Nor is it "Cordoba House." They changed the name of it to pander to -- excuse me, out of sensitivity to -- the f***wits who were using it as a club to beat them.

The same sensitive souls who can be heard chanting "Mohammed is a pig" on a video on youtube that shows them almost beating up a black man because they think he's Muslim.

Yeah, it's all about sensitivity.

Subject: RE: BS: IslamicCulturalCentre 6blocks ground zero
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 12:50 PM

While the Islamic Cultural Center is not planned to be a mosque as such, it should be noted that there is already a mosque, of long standing, on the property. It has been there, and operating as such, for a number of years BEFORE 9/11.

Further, as I understand it, there is to be a mosque within and part of the proposed Center. And I say "appropriately so". Since there is already a mosque on the property, the objectors are (1) objecting to the Cultural Center, regardless of the mosque, and (2) at least by implication, they are trying to close an existing house of worship, or perhaps to force it to be moved from the site it has occupied peacefully for many years.

As to the "too near Ground Zero" argument, the question comes to mind, "What distance would NOT be too near?" I get the impression that the answer of the objectors would be, "Oh, about eight thousand miles."

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 12:54 PM

Who cares about the USA anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 01:10 PM

In this context "a mosque" means a room set aside for prayer.

All hospitals these days, and lots of other public buildings have rooms set aside for prayer. Christians, Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, people without any religion, anything you like - they can all pray or meditate or whatever there. That's what rooms set aside for prayer are for.

I would think it a very reasonable idea that the massive commercial offices that are being built on Ground Zero should include a multi-faith prayer room alongside the money-making facilities. If it doesn't that might be reasonable enough grounds for people to make a fuss about the omission. In contrast to this very nasty stuff that has been drummed up by hatemongers.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Emma B
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 01:37 PM

Andrew Brown 'tags' a couple of the 'hatemongers' in his 'Comment is Free' blog in The Guardian last Wednesday

'The two people behind SIOA (Stop Islamisation of America) are Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, who, between them, run two flourishing and hate-filled sites, Jihad Watch and Atlas Shrugs, which link into an undergrowth of far-right websites in Europe, including the skinheads of the English Defence League, but also to respectable rightwingers such as Douglas Murray of the Centre for Social Cohesion, and even the Catholic Herald.

To judge from their websites, the important political movement in England is the English Defence League (as Geller calls them, "the courageous English patriots of the much-maligned English Defence League")

The poison behind the 'Ground Zero mosque' furore

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 03:30 PM

How delightful. One of the Tea Party high-ups has called the mayor of NYC a "Judenrat" and, far from apologizing, stands by his words.

Yes, the opposition to the mosque is all about people's tender sensitivities.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: GUEST,David E.
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 03:47 PM

I miss the days when you could honestly disagree with someone and not immediately be slapped across the face with the label racist, homophobe etc etc. Sure has taken all the fun out of a good argument.

David E.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 04:17 PM

Bobert me bhoy!....." I hate to say it but, ahhhhh, me thinks that you are trying fight the last war"

You better believe it my friend......we Scots have still not forgiven the fuckin' "Sassenachs" for Culloden!!

After we get even, THEN we'll forgive 'em.

"Alba Gu Brath!"

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 04:19 PM

The most infuriating part of this this discussion is thatn here in America it shouldn't be occuring... This is just more bullshit from the Tea Party crybabies who are trying to wreck havoc on the stability of the country... They are nothin' but muschief makers, crybabies and whiners who aren't much different from the Taliban... If these Tea Party people ever gain pwer in the country then this country will will go down in flames...

Where's all that "personal responsibility" that the conservatives used to talk about??? I mean, as citizens we do have a "personal responsibility" to maintain some level of civilization within our ranks... The Tea Party folks have missed this very iporatnt point about being a citizen of this country and respecters of not only the constitution but law in general...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 04:25 PM

and just a thought, how do you "almost beat up a black man"?

Answers in a plain sealed envelope please.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 04:29 PM

"Further, as I understand it, there is to be a mosque within and part of the proposed Center. And I say "appropriately so". Since there is already a mosque on the property, the objectors are (1) objecting to the Cultural Center, regardless of the mosque, and (2) at least by implication, they are trying to close an existing house of worship, or perhaps to force it to be moved from the site it has occupied peacefully for many years."


Lox, do pay attention, dear.... ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 04:35 PM

Use your imagination, ake. You have proven you have one, by the multiple inanities you make up.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: kendall
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 05:24 PM

What's this about building a library next to Sara Palin's house?
Damn trouble makers.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: gnu
Date: 24 Aug 10 - 05:40 PM

K! Hahahahahahaaaahehehehehehee

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: MARINER
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 12:02 AM

What's this about the Saudi who is funding the cultural centre also being the second biggest shareholder, next to the Murdoch family, in Fox News?. If so , is it strange that Fox appears to be the TV station foremost in agitating against centre ??

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 01:04 AM

Since when is a Saudi, or anyone else, funding the Center? At last report...from the Center's director...fundraising has not yet begun.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: MARINER
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 04:18 AM

Apparently a Saudi sheik named Al-Waleed bin Talel is reported to finance the centre to the tune of 10 million.He is also apparently, a major shareholder, through his Kingdom Holding Company, in Fox News,who recently named him as some kind of supporter of fundamentalist mosques throughout the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre "near" ground zero
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 07:30 AM

The heading to this thread is a bit misleading, since the building in question is not particularly near Ground Zero. Perhaps a change to the heading on the lines I have put in above this post might be a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:12 AM

Oh yeah, Fox News, those purveyors of perverted bullshit.

I believe 'em - thousands wouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 08:50 AM

Who has financed the Dulles corridor in NoVa??? Well, I'll tell ya' who... Defense conractors and other companies who have the political might to extract big tax payer's dollars out of Washington...

I mean, let's get real here... While it may be good to know where developement money comes from it shouldn't be a deal breaker unless we find that one of our known enemies is behind financing it... But the Saudis aren't our enemies...

(But, Boberdz... Wasn't it mostly Saudis who were involved in 9/11???)

Well, yeah, it was but those folks no more represented Saudi Arabia then Tim McVeight represented America...

But, another straw man into the discussion becuase it's easier to use strawmen, red herrings and hysteria than to ask ourselves what America stands for and how best can it de-escalate the conflict that the right wing wants to keep buring beteen America and the Moslum religion...

Me thinks that alot of fols do not understand what the Constituion is all about...

(No, Boberdz... It's about guns...)

My poin exactly.... So we've come to a point where people get to pick and choose what parts of the Constitution are meaningfull???

Hmmmmmmm???

Yup, 30 years of not educating people has finally settled in and it ain't too purdy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 09:53 AM

@Mariner: do you have any source for that besides the blogosphere? There is certainly nothing in the news, and the organizers say otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: MARINER
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 10:17 AM

Only from American TV. Surely they wouldn't lie ? (Ok ,it was comedy central's John Stewart !!),But bin Talel is a big shareholder in Fox and it seems Dan Senor did condemn him as the main financier of fundamentalist mosques worldwide.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 05:34 PM

Kingdom Holding Company in an investment group headed by bin Tafel.
Investmnts include Canary Wharf, some of the finest hotel chains, Walt Disney, Hewlett Packard, Ebay, Pepsico, News Corporation, etc.

It is a forward-looking group, supporting, among other things, Saudi women, Saudi charities, Humanitarian Foundation of Lebanon, Centers supporting studies and forums encouraging dialogue and reconciliation among the different world religions (where the NY group comes in), donations to groups fighting poverty, etc.

It has nothing to do with fundamentalism in Muslim groups.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: MARINER
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 06:13 PM

Then it seems someone on Fox ,or Stewart is telling lies . Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Aug 10 - 11:57 PM

If I had to choose between believing Fox is telling lies and Stewart is telling lies, I'd pick Fox is telling lies every time. Every time they open their mouths.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:05 AM

I support the community center provided that
all paper trails are transparent and that all links to funding are public knowledge.

If the center is somehow supported in a major way by a terrorist organization or terrorist state it becomes a different issue- it is then an agent of a terrorist group and not a religious freedom issue.
So far the information is not available.

I support the center and do not much care for those who are using Tyranny of Sensitivity to try to stop something that is legal. That said it is important to realize that those practicing Tyranny of Sensitivity work on many levels.

If someone is "sensitive" they have a near legal right to ruin you. Look at use of the N word or free speech concerning race and life way issues.

In america the drill is
1. exercise free speech
2. get attacked by the sensitivity Tyrants
3. make an emotional appology and retraction "I must have been insane to exercise my free speech"
4. Loose job and never get hired again
5. Maybe get job back but not such a good one

(Google Don Imus)

So knowing this one response might be what dont the Islamic Center people understand about America. The Sensitivity Tyrants rule.
And it is consistent.

Now that said I think that the lesson here is that the Sensitivity Tyrants always need to be put down. Not just sometimes but in all instances. If it is legal to exercise free speech then it should be for everyone.

I would like Obama to make it clear that we have free speech at all levels and that it applies to every instance.

While I support free speech we must take are not to fall into the trap as did the English. Terror and warfare masqueraded under free speech until the government caught on at which time for some it was too late.

Now that would be a good outcome. I will enjoy getting lots of words back and the protection that voicing a non PC point of view wont cost me my job.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 10:35 AM

Here is what some Iraq and Afghanistan US veterans have to say on this subject:

(From www.votevets.org) Dear Friend,

Since the debate erupted, we've kept out of the argument over the planned Community Center for Muslims in Lower Manhattan (falsely called the "Ground Zero Mosque"). Initially, we believed this was a local issue for New Yorkers to discuss. But, we can no longer stay silent. We need your help.

We're asking for you to join Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who already signed an open letter to the developer of the site, Sharif El-Gamal, supporting his right to develop the site, and expressing the view that allowing his community center to move forward will be a powerful tool in defeating the same terrorists we fought against in war.

There are two very important reasons we Iraq and Afghanistan veterans feel we must speak out. First and foremost, when we signed up for service, we swore to uphold the Constitution. For all the talk these days from some quarters about the importance of protecting the Constitution and allowing the free market to work unfettered, those same people are fighting against a person's right to buy property and worship freely. Our duty to protect the Constitution doesn't end when our service does. It's up to us to stand up for the right for all Americans to enjoy the Constitutional freedoms that so many around the world don't have.

Secondly, allowing the Community Center to move forward will deal a blow to the propaganda of al Qaeda and Islamist extremists, who recruit on the talking point that the United States is in a war against Islam. Of course, we're not. But, if those forces of intolerance win, it will certainly appear that we are in a war against one religion - Islam.

As Matthew Alexander, a former interrogator in Iraq, and VoteVets.org member wrote at the Huffington Post, "Imagine an al Qaeda recruiter attempting to sway a potential charge by citing an imaginary American war against Muslims but having to face the counterargument that Americans built a Muslim community center near the site of the former Twin Towers. The Cordoba House would be a powerful symbol of U.S. tolerance and freedom that will stand in direct contradiction to al Qaeda's narrative that Americans hate Muslims."

That's the point. Defeating al Qaeda will take the use of force. But it will also take destroying their ability to recruit, and that means winning hearts and minds. As veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan know, having the people on your side is of utmost importance.

click here
Please take a moment to click the link above to join Iraq and Afghanistan veterans in this open letter, supporting the right of Muslims to build a community center on property they lawfully bought. This is too important an issue for us to stay silent on any longer.

Sincerely,

Jon Soltz
(Follow me on Twitter - @jonsoltz)
Iraq War Veteran
Chairman, VoteVets.org

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 10:53 AM

Just noticed the lovely middle ground of the thread title - I seem to hear the two sides represented as The Mosque Near Ground Zero or The Islamic Cultural Center in Lower Manhattan.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 11:47 AM

Did it, Kat. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 11:56 AM

kat, awesome article! Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: pdq
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:00 PM

...allowing the Community Center to move forward will deal a blow to the propaganda of al Qaeda and Islamist extremists, who recruit on the talking point that the United States is in a war against Islam."

There are 50 countries in the world with a Muslim majority.

So, name a few of them that have a free and open press.

Name even one that does not execrise complete control of broadcast media.

In short, it makes no difference what we in the U.S. do, it will be reported a Anti-Islamic in the state-run propaganda machines.

Building the Center is a matter of local building regulations and the local public sensibilities.

It is being hyped by Islamists as evidence that they are the victims here. Same game as always, just a different venue.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 12:45 PM

AlJazeera, perhaps one of the best Muslim news organizations, always has balanced news coverage.
An article today, "In the Face of Islamophobia," by Sean Bonner.
Banners supporting the center and religious freedom and diversity, by artist Glen Friedman, were hung from his apartment on Liberty Avenue, overlooking ground zero.
Bonner, in his comments, added these remarks.
Excerpt-
"New York is possibly the most cosmopolitan multi racial city in the world, a bold statement, but one few could deny. It is not only frustrating but misleading for people from far afield to associate New Yorkers as a whole with the xenophobic protests against the building of the Mosque and cultural centre. While our viewpoint isn't universal in the city, it is widely held, a position that is not being reflected by the mainstream media."
"Our city is notorious for the many buildings for religious practice; Mosques are located all over the island and across the boroughs, along side churches, chapels, synagogues and temples. Giving the city not just a plethora of places to worship, but adding distinctly to the cultural makeup of the city, creating a great wealth of diversity in ideas, beliefs and practices that make this city the unique place it is. A diversity enjoyed by the many millions that call New York home."
All America should echo these sentiments.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:36 PM

mousethief and artbrooks, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:39 PM

MARINER said:

Then it seems someone on Fox ,or Stewart is telling lies

So what else is new?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 01:57 PM

Then it seems someone on Fox ... is telling lies.

SHOCK! HORROR!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 03:33 PM

Fox often gets misquoted- or the poster here is trying to stir up comment. As a moderately right-wing-centrist editorial position, Fox News is viewed with alarm by far left-wingers, some of whom contribute to mudcat threads.
This from a long article about the man behind the cultural center on Fox News website, August 25, 2010, from Associated Press writers.

"Mosque Developer claims classic NYC background, has modest real estate holdings."
"Eight years ago, Sharif El-Gamal was just another ambitious striver from Brooklyn, casting about for career leads and dreaming of a grander future in real estate."
"A handful of modest deals later, he's sitting on one of the most politically charged projects in recent city history: a plan to build a 13-story Islamic cultural center, health club and mosque 300 yards from the World Trade Center memorial.""At age 37, El-Gamal now finds himself being castigated daily on network television as everything from an insensitive agitator to an Islamic supremacist."
"The whirlwind, has, by all appearances, cught him by surprise."

The developer associated with El-Gamal is iman Feisal Abdul Rauf, founder of the American Sufi Muslim Association, dedicated to creating bridges between the American public and American Muslims.
" In the past, programs and academic conferences run by two non-profit groups affiliated with Rauf have received money from the Kingdom Foundation, a charity affiliated with one of the world's richest men, Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal of the Saudi Royal family.
"The prince has also invested heavily in American companies and donated may millions of dollars to American universities and charitable causes."
"The Kingdom Foundation has, to date, had no role in El-Gamal's New York Islamic center."

El-Gamal is also supporting an Islamic center in Harlem, to serve the many Senegalese and other Islamic immigrants in New York.

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 03:46 PM

Mosque Developer claims classic NYC background

With the word "claim" being placed there to imply that he must be lying?   Or doesn't it carry that implication in the USA?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 03:54 PM

Thank you for posting that, Kat. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I signed it.

That certainly sums up the dynamics of the situation. I can't thimk of a better recruiting tool for al Quaeda than their being able to point at Americans' refusal to allow an Islamic cultural center to be opened. "See!?" says bin Laden, "That proves it!!"

The best thing we can do is to welcome the center, and for people to use and and try to find out what Islam is really all about.

What's important here, pdq, is not what anyone says about us, but what we actually do. Are we hypocrits? Or does the Constitution really mean something?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:19 PM

"Far Left Wingers" - gotta love it.

By wch you mean anyone with an attachment to the truth?

Subject: RE: BS: Islamic cultural centre near ground zero
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Aug 10 - 04:19 PM

'Claim', in the US, connotates a positive association...e.g., "I claim this" = "this is mine". Sometimes it implies that there has been no third party validation. In this case, 'claim' simply means 'has'.