BS: Prince Harry - What a star!

Subject: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:06 AM

Well, he finally managed it, until a Yank blew his cover. 10weeks on active service in Afghanistan. God bless her Majesty and Prince Harry. Hip hip.

                         The true path.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:10 AM

I agree with you.He is third in line let him have a career which he wants to do.

Well done Harry.


Scooby.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:20 AM

Can't see what all the fuss is about. He's a career soldier. He goes where career soldiers go. Big deal!

Sooner we get rid of these disfunctional wasters who consider themselves our 'betters' the better for all of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:21 AM

Just one of the lads, is he? The report I saw here said he got to order bombings and air strikes, and he whined about no beer.

What a transformation.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:25 AM

Good on him for going out there. He may be a soldier but he is also 3rd in line to the throne and reports last year were saying that they didn't want him to be out there. He didn't have to go to the front line he could have had some cushy desk job back in the UK.

All the men and women out there do a grand job. My brother is due to go out to Afgahnistan in the next couple of months.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:30 AM

How nice he gets a choice in the matter. Just like all the other soldiers get to pick their assignments, I'm sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:39 AM

Maybe he has found his niche in life? Go and have a punch-up with some foreigners, eh, lad? Can't do that on a Saturday night in Windsor, eh?

But it does seem pretty irresponsible of any pressman to reveal his whereabouts, as a strike that got him would be a big propaganda coup for the Afghan insurgents.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:49 AM

Yes, but he does have that one thing going for him that will make it hard for the insurgents to pick him out of the crowd--all royals look alike to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:51 AM

How nice he gets a choice in the matter. He doesn't really, does he? As this fuss shows - no sooner does it get leaked that he's there than he gets yanked away, with no say in the matter.

Essentially the royals are a family of publicly-owned slaves, provided with very luxurious facilities, but there to do whatever their masters wish, including serving as a butt for our jokes, and with very little choice about most things, when push comes to shove.

I can't see where the rancour comes in - they are only there because the public wants them, it's not their doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:52 AM

Hmmm. Well, you don't see Dumbya or any of the chickenhawk BuShites putting their children in harm's way, do you?

Good on him.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: bankley
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:00 AM

Harry for President.... well, Harry the 2nd.... Truman was the first,,,, but they both liked to blow things up....

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:02 AM

You are really appalling with that comparison to slavery McGrath. Really god damned appalling.

Here is the thing. Any member of the royal family can walk away from it all at any time. Thing is, they are only in it for the money. And it is quite the friggin' paycheck.

So don't try and pull the 'poor, pitiful royal' crap here. He isn't a hero, just because he serves, anymore than any other daft idiot is.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: bobad
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:08 AM

Well, I suppose he could be doing something more meaningful with his life like pissing and moaning about other's career choices on an internet discussion forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:10 AM

Last night when I heard the story, they named Matt Drudge. Today, the news channels I've watched are saying 'a reporter'. The British sources don't seem to be afraid to name Drudge.

A lawsuit or other legal action based on putting lives in danger wouldn't be unreasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:23 AM

No Guest, McGrath is completely right. I dislike the institution of royalty intensely, but I would not swap places with one of the poor bastards for all the Martins in Music Store. It's a crap job.
Now that some shithead in the press has blown his cover, Harry Windsor has to suffer the ignomony of being airlifted away from his mates, with whom he has trained and worked for months. He may be a yob in uniform, but he has a sense of loyalty to his mates and he is not chicken. (A remarkable contrast to Republican hawks, who send other peoples' kids into danger).
As it happens, I don't think there should be any British (or US) troops in Afghanistan. However, I don't see why a career soldier should not be allowed to follow his chosen career.
In principle, taking cheap shots at the royals for being born royals is no better than attacking someone for being born poor, gay, Black or Thalidomide. Tell me, what influence did you have in the circumstances of your own birth?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Grab
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:28 AM

What choice, Guest? He was *posted* there. And he *requested* a posting to Iraq (as any soldier is entitled to request a posting) and was turned down. Yes, he was coordinating air support. That's one thing you'll find a trained Army officer doing. You won't find proper Army officers who take pride in spending their whole career polishing a chair with their arse. And that's the point - Harry either wanted to do this properly with no special privileges, or not at all.

The fuss is about two things really. Firstly that some shitbag reporter leaked this, endangering Harry and his unit. And secondly that people like Guest insist on their preconception that he's wrapped in cotton wool and goes everywhere with some servant strewing his way with rose petals, which this plainly shows is complete fiction.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:39 AM

I wouldn't wish life in that fishbowl on my worst enemy. Well, maybe I would. . . ;-D

Perhaps from his perspective he was hit by civilian press flak instead of Taliban flak.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:46 AM

How many royals does it take to change a lightbulb?

None, of course. What does one think one has servants for?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:59 AM

It must be REALLY comforting to be able to be as rude as you like in a public forum , knowing that as an anonymous guest no one can get back at you . At least theleveller is posting under his mudcat handle

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:17 AM

So many axes being ground at the same time in this thread.

Gigi is using one of her oldest tactics. She is completely opposed to the use of the military, finds any justification for it to be reprehensible, finds any glorification of the soldiers to be repugnant and a tool used by the ruling class/elite/royalty to control people. Intellectually she believes she has the high ground. I don't necessarily disagree with much of her purely philosophical arguments, as to the intent of those who continue to throw the fodder of workers and less fortunate on the fire of their own ambitions. I do, however, part with her on several distinctive points.

I do believe there are just causes worth fighting for. I also believe there are causes that are not as clear a choice, but that we sometimes are pushed into. These are always examined in hindsight, and we can learn much from them. Due to the imperfect human condition, and different interests being at odds with each other, we will always have armed conflict. Would that it were not so, but there it is.

Another of her tactics that I disagree with is the attacking of the young men and women who follow what they believe to be their duty. I have been one of these young warriors. I have fought along side of, and against, young men and women who truly believed in what they were doing. The fact that history has either proved their sacrifice as justified and worthwhile, or unjustified and not, should not lessen our admiration for, and support of them when they come home. The rule of law is what we live by, and we should not castigate young folks for doing what they believe to be the right thing to do. I understand clearly that many are forced into this by economic and social conditions, but this ought strengthen our resolve to honor these young people, not castigate them, and the memory of those who did not come home.

There is also an argument happening about the worth of the royals. I don't have a dog in that fight, other than a historical one in that I am an American, and that I am of Irish Republican stock. Hence, the value of the royals is for the Brits to debate.

Finally, the issue of this young prince. I must admit that I admire him a great deal. Sure he has advantages, but that is not of his doing. In fact, he has often decried these, wishing he could live a more normal life. If what I am understanding of his deployment is true, the High Command denied his requests repeatedly, and then relented to him, but only on the condition that he could cut the deal with the press that would allow him not to put his squad in danger for simply serving with him. He did this. Without regard to whatever else one wants to say about royals, this is a young man of character who wanted to have the costume that he is forced to wear to mean something. He did not want his squad to sacrifice more than he had to. As much as was possible, he forced this to happen. I suspect that if he could stay, he would. Good for him, he is different and has values I admire. He is a credit to the British, to his family, and specifically, a credit to his Mother's memory.

As to Matt Drudge, or whomever leaked this, you are scum. I guess it is too much to expect journalists these days to resist the story, but it would be wonderful to see integrity and honor in journalism once again. Did you give no thought to the fact that your reporting could have gotten someone killed? Could you not put aside your ambitions in the interests of not putting someones family member at risk? Sadly, I think that day has come and gone when there is much deep thought given to much other than the sensational and self interest.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:21 AM

Yup, and with a name like theleveller, everyone has to know I'm a republican (small 'r').

BTW I never say anything on message boards I wouldn't say to anyone's face (got the scars to prove it!).

Bet Harry's not existing just on his army pay – that wouldn't buy a round of drinks in Annabelle's.

Which reminds me; there was a nice cartoon in Metro today: one Taliban to another – "If Harry's so close, maybe we should open a nightclub".

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:21 AM

Nevertheless, I do feel the situation was more under control when he was ligging round London , dressing up as a Nazi and taking drugs.

it was playing with fire sending him out there, really bloody silly. The war with all its spin-offs of race relations in this country is quite inflammatory enough. if he'd appeared in a dvd , having head hacked off - it would have been the equivalent of if we'd hanged an IRA terrorist at the height of the troubles. Our communities would have been rocked.

I can't believe the late Princess Diana would have approved.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:27 AM

One more observation, with regard to GUEST,Guest. Since we have instituted the rule that even Guests must post with a consistent handle, she has honored that. Her posts have, for the most part, stuck with the rule that there not be personal attacks. While we may not like the tone at times, nonetheless she pursues her points aggressively and without personal attack. In retrospect, her tone is no worse than mine has been at times, as well as others. I would ask the question: As long as she is using a consistent handle, not sniping from the unknown, how is she any different than anyone else using something other than their real name?

So let's don't get bogged down in that, and move on with the discussion. Have no fear. Posts without a consistent handle will be removed, as will personal attacks.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:32 AM

PEACE...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:40 AM

Running the place all on your own, now, are ya, Mick?:-)

One difference is as long as someone posts as a "guest" with a handle or not, we have no way of knowing if it is consistently the same person or not. ANY guest could use that handle as you well know. Sure we might be able to spot the rhetoric style, but one never knows. By contrast the likelihood of two different people posting as, for instance, Big Mick or katlaughing, etc. is rare, these days.

As for Harry, good for him and shame on the idiots who claim to be journalists.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:42 AM

"Here is the thing. Any member of the royal family can walk away from it all at any time. Thing is, they are only in it for the money. And it is quite the friggin' paycheck." - by WTFK?

Here is the thing:
"Any member of the royal family can walk away from it all at any time."

Eh? No they can't - classic example - Mountbatten.

Thing is:
"they are only in it for the money. And it is quite the friggin' paycheck."

Eh? No. As a member of the Royal Family Harry may or may not be entitled to money from what they call the "Civil List". As 3rd in Line to the Throne I would not imagine that that would amount to much as it is paid for performing civic duties. Now for drawing money from the Civil List the Royal Family forgoes income from the Crown Estates - that all goes to the Government. Now then WTFK? a little indication for you, that I think is needed because you are obviously from the far side of the pond. Civil List costs the UK Tax Payer £37.2 million pounds per year. In Profit by way of income the Crown Estates contribute around £190 million per year. So they are most definitely are not in it for the money, or if they are, they have obviously been very badly advised.

Oh and by the bye WTFK?, from what I recall, as an officer in the Household Brigade, The "Blues and Royals" are part of the Household Brigade, Cornet Wales' Army salary will probably not even pay his monthly Mess Bill.

Good on him and all the other lads out there and to hell with the so-called journalists who decided that getting their "gossip" story out was worth more than potentially increasing the risk of endangering the lives of a whole rake of people already in harms way.

Catherine Jayne, I wish your brother all the best, if he goes out to Afghan in a couple of months time he will be out there at the same time as my son.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer (astounded, what century again
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:08 AM

Mental note to self: don't visit Mudcat to discuss politics. Looks like it's all 'gawd bless the poor old royal family, they're just ordinary working folks' round these parts...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: bankley
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:09 AM

His great uncle, Edward the Simpsonizer gave up the throne... just as well... and Harry's mama tried to walk away from it all, made it as far as Paris, and didn't Uncle Andrew serve in the Falklands war ?
It's hard to keep track, not that I try that much... but his Grandma's green face is on my CDN twenties, 'tho I prefer the other side with Bill Reid's Haida art and the tiny inscription by Gabrielle Roy which says "Could we ever know each other in the slightest without the arts?"

I hope that none of our troops get hurt today, whoever they are...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:13 AM

"But it does seem pretty irresponsible of any pressman to reveal his whereabouts, as a strike that got him would be a big propaganda coup for the Afghan insurgents."

Yep, another big-gob Yank. Just as irresponsible as the big-gob Yank who announced to the world that the US knew where OB-L was because they were tracking his mobile-phone activity. Mobile phone promptly switched off. Duh!

Still, spragging on Harry makes a nice change from the Americans bombing and shooting their closest allies, doesn't it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:17 AM

We need to differentiate between Harry the soldier (best wishes for a safe return to you and every other serving solider and damn all those who sent you there) and Harry the royal, an institution I abhor.

Perhaps it's no coincidence that I was born on 27 January, when, exactly 300 year previously, Charles l was found guilty of treason against the people of England. Regrettably, one tyrant was replaced by another and the chance of a true democracy was squandered .

What is Harry fighting for in Afghanistan – a true democracy? Does he know the meaning of the word?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:18 AM

BTW, leveller, Guest Guest, et al - whether you approve of the Royals or not, the fact is that he's someone's much-loved son, and he's in a f**kin' dangerous place, far more dangerous than you're ever likely to be in.

A little humanity costs nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Grab
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:21 AM

WLD, the IRA assassinated one major royal (Mountbatten), and at Brighton they killed one MP and the relatives of other MPs. On a more man-in-the-street level, they killed and maimed a whole bunch of civilians in pubs, shopping centres and crowded streets in England and Ireland. It's difficult to see how hanging an IRA man would have made the situation worse, to be honest. :-(

Anyway, the anti-Taliban deciding factor has already happened, with 9/11, and various beheadings since then have just confirmed the situation. It's difficult to see what they could do that'd solidify Western opinion more against them than it already is.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:27 AM

Here's another riveting fact (yawn!): a few months after Charles l's execution, Levellers in Cromwell's New Model Army mutinied. One of their grievances was that they did not want to be sent to invade another country. That country was Ireland (the results can be seen above in Grab's post). Three Levellers, including my namesake, were shot in Burford churchyard. Wonder what would have happened if there'd been a similar mutiny in the army before they were sent to Afghanistan or Iraq?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:29 AM

Sorry, that should read 'a few months' don't want you to think I'm an illiterate b****d.

fixed it for you - el joe clone:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:40 AM

There are some smug bastards on this thread.
Also, if Guest guest is who I think she is, perhaps she would be better getting her own, President George W Chimp to take his brave boys out of Iraq.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 11:52 AM

Unfair shot, Giok. Folks from your side of the pond revel in telling us what is wrong with us. A Yank, and yes you have guessed correctly as to ID, certainly has the same right, no?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:00 PM

'It's difficult to see how hanging an IRA man would have made the situation worse, to be honest.'

I have no such difficulty in imagining the scenario. A little more imagination and flexibility would have denied the IRA their greatest victory - the hunger strike - one of the greatest set pieces of resistance. Surely the turning point in the whole period of conflict.

The public execution of one of Diana's children would have been a whole different ball game to Mountbatten's killing. Diana was the most loved of all the royals. A lot of English people would have hard pressed to know who Mountbatten was.

I still think it was a damn silly thing to risk, and might have left our cities in flames. Still that gang of Bertie Woosters at the Ministry of Defence/MI5 might have been hoping for just that result - devious bastards!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:11 PM

Couple of points: As a royal he is required to serve in the military, it was his choice what arm of the service, and which regiment he wanted. Andrew was a RN Helicopter Pilot, who was in potential harms way in the Falklands.

I do applaud him (despite his bizarre and questionable behaviour at times-the Nazi costume was just unfunny, no matter how you look at it) for not getting lost, and taking an office assignment, but joining an actual unit with the real possibility of combat.

Shame on whomever gave him up, and if it was Drudge, I hope someone goes after him on that. Whatever you think of the war, or of the royals, that could have had severe consequences, and they should be ashamed of themselves

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:13 PM

WLD-hard pressed to know who Mountbatten was? I find that very hard to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:18 PM

Who's this Prince Harry then?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:19 PM

Most of the kids I taught in the 1970s wouldn't have been able to name Prince Philip - if you'd shown them a photograph. I presume they know even less nowadays after twenty years of Keith Joseph's national curriculum.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:23 PM

"he's someone's much-loved son, and he's in a f**kin' dangerous place"

Of course he's in danger, Backwoodsman, he's a soldier. Every other soldier is also in danger. As a police armed response officer, my son's in danger every time he gets a shout. Nobody's making a huge fuss about them, so what makes Harry so special? Oh yes, he's an overprivileged young man who happens to be in the public eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:47 PM

Nah Mick I was having a go at the Guest guest who I assume is our old friend Janet. Not attacking US citizens for commenting on our affairs. If that stopped [both ways], we'd have a lot fewer posts on Mudcat wouldn't we?

Giok ¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:48 PM

LOL.....yep. And what would I have to bitch about?? I would have to go back to abusing small animals, guitar strings, goatskin drums and golf balls...

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:59 PM

But are those his whereabouts? How do we know he is actually there? Isn't this just another God bless the Royals campaign cos they are looking a bit sheepish about the murder of Diana; if is she is actually dead!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:59 PM

You are really appalling with that comparison to slavery McGrath. Really god damned appalling.

How so? I wasn't thinking in terms of the slave system that operated in America, if that's what gigi assumed. There have been a fair number of slave owning societies in which wealthy and powerful slaves were to be found. For example Ancient Athens, Rome, the Ottoman Empire and China. They led very comfortable lives, so long as they did what their masters required - but they weren't free.

True enough, if the royals decided to walk away they aren't going to get their heads chopped off, or get clapped in irons,which would have been the kind of thing those wealthy slaves would have likely to have happen to them. So they aren't technically slaves, and I didn't say they were (that's what "essentially" meant). But sanctions like that are not the only way in which freedom of choice can in practice be reduced to vanishing point, and their freedom is in mnay ways very restricted, as thsi latest episode demonstrates.

But I'm still puzzled by the hate people seem to feel. If people in general didn't really want them, they'd be gone by the end of the week, whether they liked it or not. They've been placed in that situation purely by an accident of birth, nothing to do with anything they did. Why blame them? Surely no one is actually jealous?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: skarpi
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 01:00 PM

what people do for money and glory .

so Harry is is afganistan so what ?? and now he dont want to go back
from the fighting , he s a soldier and is doin his duty .

we dont have a army here in Iceland " thanks to the old vikings god
odinn and thor " :>)

so I dont know about this duty thing .

all the best skarpi Iceland
amd we should all be friends in here or least try

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 01:22 PM

Public eye yes...great big bulls eye..yes. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:09 PM

Did you ever see such a load of manufactured bull in your life !
Harry Hewitt is no more out on the front line than Trevor McDonald is.
He has been seen at many social events over the past number of weeks ( no idea if he was doing the nazi salute again).

This is all to make out that the son of James Hewitt is a brave and jolly good sort. It was the same the the time of the Falklands, Andrew was jockeying around London and they tired to make out he was sitting in a chopper, another load of bull.

Well how could the "hangers on" not expect their loyal public to swallow it, after all, they swallow every other feed of it !

Next they will be telling us he is the son of Prince Charles !

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:29 PM

The best trolls are subtle Windsor NOT, and that was one of the worst and most obvious failed efforts at trolling I have seen in a long time!
Look at ms Lemon's post a couple before yours. Now that's what you call a good troll.

G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:32 PM

Windsor Knot, was the moon landing a fake too? I suppose Andrew never learned to fly that helicopter either, they probably just faked that as well. Oh and Harry's head was superimposed on someone else's head in a Blues & Royals uniform for all that footage of him marching. Where's your proof he was socializing, tell us, we're dying to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:32 PM

Harry tried with all his might to do what he believed to be the Right Thing. That's the best any of us can aspire to, and he has my admiration for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:39 PM

Another thought, how many of these anti royalist left wing republican sneering dismissive pratts, would be prepared to put themselves in his place?
No, 'oh well we shouldn't be there in the first place' cracks either, and don't forget, he ASKED to go!
I am no lover of Harry or of the royal family, but a lot of the posts on here are cheap shots. Sly remarks made about people who like most of you is only where he is because of what he was born into.
It's cowardly to attack those whom you know can't, and won't, answer back.

Giok.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:46 PM

I refuse to answer question that make referance to Harry Hewitt as one of the Windsors. It has been proven beyond doubt he is the son of Major James Hewitt.

Three guys he served with has dated pictures of Hewitt on their Myspace pages today.

It never fails to amaze me that a handful of "sheep" on this site come in to defend a family that lives off their backs and bumped off their ex daughter in law because she was about to marry a Muslim.

Listen, Harry Hewitt was photographed on a firing range in the south east, they couldn´t risk sending him into the line of fire as James Hewitt said more than once, "Harm the boy and I lift the lid".

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:48 PM

We're not as gullible as you matey

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:51 PM

Dear dear John, if you can´t accept fact or truth please stay off this thread.

Love as always

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 03:00 PM

Oooh-myspace, like nobody's ever lied on there before. Nice try, give us more.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 03:00 PM

So y'all really care who his father was? What's that got to do with anything?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: gnu
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 03:02 PM

The truth? You can't handle the truth! Fact is that since 1066, the Brits (all of the Isles and the Commonwealth) have never been trodden. Why? Because they are the best. And, their leaders in warfare and defence, those whom you choose to slag, are not pussies.

Shove that truth up your pussy ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 03:16 PM

Windsor Knot, where's your proof?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Gervase
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 03:19 PM

It seems to be proven beyond doubt that Windsor Not is Mohammed Fayed's bastard love-child. What an arrant load of barking twaddle!
As a republican myself, I salute what Harry has done, and can only add to the general contempt for Matt Drudge for 'outing' him.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 04:39 PM

And he plays a mean game of polo too.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 05:48 PM

Keep your head down and check your six, Harry - and ignore the other assholes.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Grab
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 09:25 PM

Fact is that since 1066, the Brits (all of the Isles and the Commonwealth) have never been trodden.

Cept for a few bits of ex-Commonwealth that decided they'd rather it was more of their wealth, and kicked our arses to make it so. But we don't hold that against them. After all, if they hadn't, people would be blaming the Brits for McDonalds burgers, on top of everything else we already have to own up to.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 10:06 PM

Which of the Channel Islands were occupied by the Germans for most of World War II? Wasn't it Jersey and Guernsey? Sounds well trodden to me. Well, ok...not "officially" part of Great Britain...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:47 AM

The more interesting aspect of this story to me is that the news broke in the German newspaper Bild and an Australian newspaper in early January. I don't know about the Australian newspaper, but Bild is very widely available. So unless you believe there are very few Al Queda sympathisers in Germany and Australia it seems quite likely to me that his presence in Afganistan was known to his potential attackers round about mid January. The UK news blackout continued a further six weeks or so. I'd like to know what was going in the minds of the policitians and military over that period.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 03:38 AM

WindsorKnit - re: Paternity - show us the DNA evidence, the blood work and the official statement - then go look at a portrait of Diana Spencer's brother.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: selby
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:20 AM

I am proud of the solders who served with Harry they kept the secret they knew that wether it was public knowledge or not that they had a bullet magnet with them. Only they know the truth of cornet wales a good solder or a bad solder. As for the journalist who broke the story not a lot of sense shown there to young Wales and to the brave discreet young men and women who there with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:31 AM

Seems to me the boy did his duty. Not enough of that about. Whether the Royal Family should have the privileges and responsibilities it has is another question.

Undoubtedly the prince would have been a bullet magnet. If the Taliban by their own resources discovered his whereabouts, well, that's war and in war one has spies. But for reporters of allegedly allied nationalities to reveal his whereabouts is despicable.

If the reporters were Taliban sympathisers then their morality is less clearly damnable. Reporters, like others, can decide which side they are on. But of course it may be treason.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:38 AM

"Another thought, how many of these anti royalist left wing republican sneering dismissive pratts, would be prepared to put themselves in his place?"

And just how many of the slobbering right wing royalist sychophants would take his place, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:58 AM

Windsor Knot? That should be Windsor KNOB.
Giok, Richard Bridge, Selby, Lonesome - all correct.
Leveller, you're a real dick. How many other soldiers over there have had gobby journalists telling the enemy where they are, knowing full well that it could very probably end up with the soldier(s) in question getting a few rounds up their arses?
Can't be bothered to argue with gob-shites any more, too pissed off.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 06:07 AM

Well Leveller you've just proved yourself to be blind as well as nasty. You chose to pick one quote from my post, while completely ignoring the part that didn't suit you vituperative tendencies.

"I am no lover of Harry or of the royal family, but a lot of the posts on here are cheap shots."

Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 06:19 AM

Well, Goik, just like you ignored the rest of my posts. If your arguments are so bankrupt that you have to resort to insults, don't complain when someone comes along and rubs your nose in your own s**t. Typical bully - acts tough then whinges when someone gives you a taste of you own medicine.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 06:23 AM

3rd post in this thread.


Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller - PM
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 08:20 AM

Can't see what all the fuss is about. He's a career soldier. He goes where career soldiers go. Big deal!

Sooner we get rid of these disfunctional wasters who consider themselves our 'betters' the better for all of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 06:36 AM

"The truth? You can't handle the truth! Fact is that since 1066, the Brits (all of the Isles and the Commonwealth) have never been trodden. Why? Because they are the best. And, their leaders in warfare and defence, those whom you choose to slag, are not pussies".

Thanks gnu, great answer, don´t forget to thank the Americans for saving our asses in 1942 when they landed in the UK to finish the war for us ! Of course we are well thought of throughout the world ! ask the familes of those we interned and left to die in South Africa. Correct me if I am wrong, but has the commonwealth not become a little bit smaller over the years as we get our asses kicked out of country after country ?

Yes a very welcoming nation, we even have a party soley dealing with the number of those who arrived from the commonwealth living in Bolton,Birmingham and London.

They are called the BNP, I imagine your already a member.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 06:46 AM

Pedantic point - strictly speaking the Commonwealth has actually got bigger. It now includes Mozambique.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 07:07 AM

Princess Diana's former lover James Hewitt IS Prince Harry's father.
Hewitt Sr,said people have compared Harry's looks with his own, but I will NEVER take a DNA test or admit I am Harry's father.


Mr Hewitt was Diana Princess of Wales's secret lover for nine years.

Hewitt Sr, Referred a few years ago to portraits taken by fashion photographer Mario Testino of the Prince,he said: "Looking at the pictures I have to say yes there is a likeness, but that is all I am saying."


Hewitt Sr, said he was he was asked by a daily newspaper to take a DNA test but refused. St James's Palace declined to comment on Hewitt's refusal to take the test.


So there it is,young Hewitt is getting a slap on the back for being somewhere he isnt, and now his father won´t come out and claim him, poor kid any wonder he takes drugs at parties and dresses as Hitler. And to top it off, He´s Ginger.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 07:24 AM

"Princess Diana's former lover James Hewitt IS Prince Harry's father"

So, Windsor Knob, you know this for fact? How? Were you present at the conception?

What a turd.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 07:37 AM

"Don't scratch it, it only makes it worse".

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 07:39 AM

Whoops!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2273498.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:06 AM

I see him as a guy who through no fault of his own found himself part of a family variously despised or envied by many and who tried to avoid the fuss and quietly have a normal guy's life away from the glare of the spotlight. He managed it for 10 weeks till the hyenas got to him. In that time, at the very least he took the place of some other mother's son in carrying out his duties, and so kept someone else out of harm's way.

I don't know what sort of man he will develop into, but sure as hell the papparazzi's feeding frenzy is not helping him.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:52 AM

For the record, I am not a pacifist, and I am not anti-grunt. What I am is anti-militarism in all it's guises.

God, that we could all have skarpi's worldview of it, but I do look forward to that day.

As to the royals, well...I'm a democrat, small 'd'. A Walt Whitman natural democrat, so to speak. Walt Whitman served during the US Civil War to end slavery. As a nurse. Loved Lincoln. Wrote 'When lilacs last in the dooryard bloom'd...' when he was assassinated.

I've had a hard week. First, there was is the deep irony of honoring Black History Month in a segregated urban school that is 85% African American and 92% free lunch school (ie high poverty, African American). Reading the latest Caldecott Honor Book about slavery to 1st graders, I have a little boy raise his hand and ask 'will that happen to us when we grow up' and I tell him no, we fought the civil war to end slavery in our country, and then made it against the law. His follow up to my comment? 'My dad says he'll hit me if I call the police on him when he hurts me.'

Then, our entire school went on a field trip to see a play about slavery, and believe me, the message wasn't lost on me that I was one of a handful of white faces in an audience that was a sea of black faces. Nothing hits home for kids like drama, and this play hit our kids far harder than anything our teaching and preaching about slavery has. It made it palpable for them, especially the beatings.

Then the same afternoon, one of our students disappeared after school--turns out his 'extended family' (mom lost custody of him for beating him) had taken him. So for now, he has been disappeared from us--the only people who know him and don't threaten him.

Slavery has a very human legacy, and I'm currently living in the midst of it. Militarism has a very human legacy, and I'm currently living in the midst of it too. And I hate them both. I detest them, because nothing is more undemocratic, dehumanizing, and demoralizing than slavery and militarism.

So go ahead McGrath, and gloss over the realities of all that if you want. I just find it appalling to compare the lives of some of the most privleged and pampered people on earth to the cushy lives that slaves lead.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:54 AM

The King joins the army.
I wonder what danger he put his comrades in?

G

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 09:47 AM

Slaves like child soldiers, McGrath. Let's compare Harry & his Heroic Military Assignment to the lives of child slaves being forced to work as soldiers, shall we?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:36 AM

That's comparing oranges and pineapples Janet.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:43 AM

he's a soldier like every other soldier out there so who really cares I mean there are more important news items than Prince Nazi oh sorry Harry.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:09 AM

As I pointed out, GG, I had no intention of suggesting a parallel with that kind of slavery - and I can understand why you would object to the notion.

All kinds of slavery are deplorable, but the American system of chattel slavery founded on "race" was probably in some ways the nastiest that has ever existed, at the time and particularly in its legacy.

My parallel was with the type of slavery which existed in other places and times, as I pointed out, where it was not uncommon for important and well rewarded posts to be held by slaves. Privileged, but un-free and subject to the whims of their masters.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:17 AM

You don't get this do you, Goik? Learn to distinguish between a legitimate point of view and personal abuse of another catter. Disagree with my views, by all means - try to browbeat me and you'll get as good as you give.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:22 AM

You are the one who picked on someone who won't respond, that is unfair, and when someone responds in their defence you dare to call it bullying. Well in the light of your unfair attack on them I would think that accusation fits you better.
Eyes and motes spring to mind.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:39 AM

We are all adults here, and NO ONE needs another poster to intervene 'on behalf of' another poster to defend them. That's just a bullshit rationale for mob rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:53 AM

Excuse me Janet, but I don't actually see Prince Harry or any other member of the royal family posting on here, do you?
Haven't you got enough troubles where you live?

G

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 12:06 PM

meow! Steady now, girls!

8) Sal

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 12:10 PM

And I'm sure the royals need you to operate as their surrogate in defense of the realm, Giok.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 12:16 PM

I am defending those who cannot, by custom, defend themselves.
I know you specialise in attacking all and sundry under the label of Guest, but I am happy to post in my own name.
Then again I'm not banned from this site like you.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 12:17 PM

Poor, defenseless royals. Whatever will become of them?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: gnu
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:04 PM

I suspect they will manage to eke out an existance.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:19 PM

Oh and btw Janet, what about your own dear leader's war record?
What was it he volunteered for again?

G

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:21 PM

Only a wanker would have a comeback like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:26 PM

Glad you enjoyed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:26 PM

Terry !!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:31 PM

The royal family live a charmed life of the backs of the British taxpayer.

From bodyguards lying in hedges all night while Prince Charles whistled through the wheat field down south on Susan George, to Major Parker Bowles keeping his silence about his wife (before she became his ex) in return for his massive estate overdraft vanishing over night, to endless garden parties and overseas trips paid for by you and me.Or bankrupt Paddy McNally refusing to "spill the dirt" for 500.000 thousand to a magazine about Fergie who he was living with when "Falklands Dan Dare Andy" started going with her. McNally suddenly paid all his creditors and re-appeared on the wealthy yacht set.

Then you have the greek/geek Prince Philip who has openly insulted every nation on the planet and gets away with it.

They are rotten to the core and live like leeches and a brain dead nation waves flags at them !!

Christ talk about lead by the nose. And still young Hewitt gets the cold shoulder from his true father.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:49 PM

What's the point of getting all excited and angry about this particular bunch of rich people?

Why don't we have threads of hate and disgust directed at people who win the lottery?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:52 PM

Well McGrath, that's quite simple winning the lottery is an accident of fate, while being born into a royal house is intentional.
Just so you can have the pleasure of being sniped at by passing eedjits.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:55 PM

Well Harry got his toe in the door when James Hewitt got his caught in the sheet !

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:01 PM

Because most people aren't stupid enough to believe in an 'accident of birth' conspiracy theory, especially when it comes to the blind defenders of monarchy & empire who happen to be inhabiting this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:07 PM

At the danger of becoming as boring as you Janet, I repeat. I do not have any leanings in favour of the British/English royal family, I am a member of the SNP who seek independence for Scotland.
I do however despise those who take cheap shots at people for no other reason than the fact that they can. Just remember what happened when a cartoon of Mohammed was published in a Danish newspaper, and count yourself lucky that you can denigrate people the way you do, and not have to worry about the consequences.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM

From bodyguards lying in hedges all night Most of us have to endure doing without having that privilege. It's so unfair...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:16 PM

SNP is it? Well, that explains your reactionary conservatism, anyway.

As far as your analogy to the Danish cartoon, and your laughable threat that I count myself lucky, I think that pretty much proves you are off your bleedin' rocker.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:41 PM

At least now he's back the Bolly sales will return to where they stood, before he went and worked in his chosen field.

I think I'll save my sympathies for the street cleaner who pushes his cart in all weathers. Then returns to his damp one bedroomed flat where he can't afford the heating bills.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:22 PM

Gigi - what are you talking about? Often you are quite rational if a bit OTT, but your problem here seems to be that a young man was born to rich parents. And?

Now let us focus. In prety well all monarchies, it has been the tradition that the spare as distinct from the heir should join the military. That is of course what royals do. So the young twerp (I think he comes across as pretty obnoxious) did his duty. Not enough of that about. Credit where credit is due. Do you do your duty Gigi?

So said young man joins the military. Now he does his duty and goes to war. Your problem with that is, exactly?

I really don't give a shit whether he is a bastard or not.

And, in case anyone suggests it, I am not a Dianaworshipper either. IMHO she was a psycholoonie disaster (as was Sarah Ferguson, but not as bad) for a constitutional monarchy in which Miss Piggy was doing a pretty good job.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:44 PM

Rich parents? Aren't you rather understating the facts about the world's most infamously pampered and privleged lager lout finally taking his rightful place in the family business?

Oh, and I'm just as underwhelmed by the 'traditions' of monarchies, as I am by the 'traditions' of the papacy.

And finally, Richard, I see you do *your* duty out of the wrong end of the pipe.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 08:55 PM

SNP "reactionary conservative", GG? I think you are confusing them with some other party. (Such as the one in power in London.)
....................................

I really am puzzled why people get all excited about the Royal Family. In some ways it doesn't make much difference whether they loathe it or worship it, there's a shared feeling that it desperately matters. But it doesn't. No more than other aspects of inequality, and in some ways less.

The idea which I have heard expressed, that the existence of the Royal family is a keystone for preservation of inequality and snobbery and all that, and that without them those things would collapse just seems laughable to me, looking around at other countries which don't have this odd institution in place.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:08 PM

I don't think I'm confusing them at all, thanks.

And excuse me, but 'excited about the Royal Family'?

Maybe this thread thrills you McGrath, but some of us aren't nearly as enthusiastic as you might like to believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:41 AM

I'm not excited about the Royal Family, but I do excited by the real, honest truth, which certain people here, despite many evidences to support, have chosen to ignore.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 03:11 AM

"Don't scratch it, it only makes it worse".

Thanks McG, I was rockin' for a while there. Equilibrium regained, "Troll/Flamer Reaction" switch turned to "off"! :-)

S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GRex
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 04:19 AM

In trying to bring some sanity back into this thread, I pose the question: Do you think that our Harry heard (and listened to) Tom Lewis's "No Princes on the Line"?


         GRex (No relation to the royals)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,An insider with my head down
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 06:02 AM

Hey Mr. Knot... I agree with most of what you have said and have been aware of it for many years. I could say more as I am on the inside to a certain extent, but am not going to put my head on the block. I live in a place where the Royals visit a lot and you are right about body guards, even cameras and dare I say it, phone tapping. I know that mine has been for about 10 years, but am used to it now. When ever something goes wrong with my phone, it's odd that I never have to pay BT to put it right!!

I must just take issue about you saying "live like leeches and a brain dead nation..." I'm not sure you should be quite so general as some of the nation actually agrees with you.

8)

Sal

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 06:44 AM

Mr. W. KNOB, please answer the question, second asking - you claim as a fact that Harry IS Hewitt's son. How do you know this? Please give is links to the data.

If you can't do that, you have lost what little credibility you had. In which case, STFU and FRO.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 08:10 AM

I wasn't suggesting, GG, that you were enthusiastic about the royals. Just that, like a few others, you seem very aerated about them. I can't see why there should be more anger addressed at them than at all the rich layabouts and scroungers who infest our societies.

Why are they targets more than people who have won millions on the lottery, for example? (In this case, literally a target.)

One way of looking at this episode is that the Government decided to set up a public relations exercise to make people feel more positive towards the war in Afghanistan. So they shipped off Harry. The Drudge sludgegulper leaked it prematurely, which caused a bit of a kerfuffle as things had to be wound up in a hurry.

At the centre of all this is young Harry, who fortunately appears to have wanted to go. I suspect that if he hadn't that wouldn't have made too much difference.   But the royals are there to do what is required of them. I get the distinct impression that his father, Prince Charles, would have been happier if he hadn't been sent to the war. After all, these people are human beings, who have been landed, through no doing of their own, in a very peculiar situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 09:16 AM

I'm not a great lover of the royal family but do admire Harry for wanting to be treated, insofar as it is possible, like any other member of the armed forces and to be involved in the war that they are fighting. I feel rather sorry for him that, due to the constrictions of his family, he is out in this sort of situation and will probably find, as the years go on, that this situation shows less privilege and more constriction of his life.

These boys, like the generation before them, will always be living in a goldfish bowl, with no real option to lead a normal life.

On the privilege they have I can think of other scions of wealthy families who seem to do less to justify their existence - the one who immediately springs to mind right now is Paris Hilton who, from what I can see has done absolutely nothing to warrant the attention she has been given apart from having been born into money and a famous name. there are others who have appeared over the years of the same ilk. Unlike the princes and most of the royal family these types seem to revel in media attention without, it seems, having any other use than to fill the pages of the gossip press. At least the royals do generate a certain amount of tourist industry.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 09:18 AM

I can't help but be amused by all this. Sure, we are entitled to our 'opinions' but not one of those opinions will ever be proven/disproven. (Unless you believe the tabloids...they've been telling us the 'Truth' for years.)

I see Harry as a very confused young man....and I think you Brits should all be rather glad that the 'Spare' wasn't the 'Heir' if you get my drift.

Who CARES who his father was anyway? I sure don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 10:11 AM

Sorry to disappoint, McGrath. I'm not angry either. I do disagree w/some here, but in a bantering vein, where I, like most the others, give as good as I get.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 10:37 AM

Why should I be disappointed, GG? It's really not worth getting angry about this stuff. Some people do seem to be doing so, but if you aren't one of them, good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:04 AM

Well, if I were British, I would be angry about Harry and the Militarist Propaganda Campaign.

But apparently there are a lot of Sun readers here, who've bought the Harry our Hero (tm) 'hook, line and sinker' (as we say in my wee corner of the wide world).

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:08 AM

And I hear recruitment is up as well, what with all those tarted up photos of shirtless football and desert motocross games.

Seems your media conspiracies and coverups in cahoots with your government are every bit as shameful as the US in that regard.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:51 AM

And then there is this revelatory bit just in from AFP:

Propaganda and PR claims over Prince Harry's Afghan tour

3 hours ago

LONDON (AFP) — Prince Harry was on Sunday spending his first full day back in Britain after a tour of duty in Afghanistan, but amid claims that coverage of his mission was propaganda for a failed military strategy.

The 23-year-old's time fighting the Taliban in the volatile Helmand Province in southern Afghanistan has dominated the British media since a prominent US website blew his cover on Thursday, forcing military brass to pull him out.

Britain's domestic Press Association news agency put out 11,548 words within an hour of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirming the Drudge Report story.

On Friday, there were 56 pages of coverage in eight national newspapers, with headlines like "Harry the Brave" and "Harry the Secret Hero." The Sun tabloid published 11 pages, plus a poster of him on patrol.

All included photographs of the flame-haired prince: riding a motorbike in the desert, Steve McQueen style; with his shirt off playing rugby; in combat fatigues on patrol; or behind a machine gun, firing at insurgent positions.

Harry and the head of the British Army, General Sir Richard Dannatt, have said the blanket coverage could help better inform the public about Britain's mission in Afghanistan -- and also in Iraq, which remains unpopular here.

Dannatt's predecessor, General Sir Mike Jackson, told BBC television Sunday the coverage was "not unhelpful" for recruitment, saying Harry had summed up the sense of comradeship and common purpose among serving soldiers.

But dissenting voices are beginning to be heard, not least about the British media's rare, but not unprecedented, agreement with the defence ministry to a news blackout until Harry's return.

The presenter of Britain's Channel 4 News, Jon Snow, in an e-mail previewing Thursday's show, said: "One wonders whether viewers, readers and listeners will ever want to trust media bosses again.

"Or perhaps this was a courageous editorial decision to protect this fine young man?" he asked.

The British publicist Max Clifford told The Guardian Saturday the deployment was a "total, superficial, PR exercise" aimed at casting Harry -- who has a reputation as a wayward party animal -- in a more positive light.

One columnist at the right-of-centre Mail on Sunday said the focus on Harry and criticism of foreign media for breaking a gentleman's agreement was "sheer propaganda" that "may make us feel 'our boys are winning' in Afghanistan.

"But this is not the truth at all," wrote Suzanne Moore.

"Instead of secret meetings between the MoD and TV and newspaper editors and the Palace, wouldn't this time have been better spent in working out what we are trying to do in this brutalised country, as no-one is quite sure any more?"

In the Independent on Sunday, a British soldier who served in Iraq and Afghanistan criticised Britain's campaign in Helmand, arguing air strikes of the kind Harry called in as a battlefield air controller were not working.

"Rather than highlighting the appalling truths about the war in Helmand, the media, dazzled by the heroic ideal that Prince Harry so perfectly embodies, perpetuate the myth that this is a just war fit for heroes," said Leo Docherty.

"This is war reduced to entertainment, willingly ignorant of the truth that young men like Harry, both British and Afghan, are dying violent pointless deaths in Helmand province.

"Outrage is the only response to this, not entertainment."

The Observer, another centre-left weekly, said the complexities of the NATO-led mission and tensions between allies, particularly over troop numbers and rules of engagement, had been overlooked.

Scant attention was paid to recent claims about the Afghan government's fragile grip on power in the face of the Taliban's "kamikaze fanaticism," the difficulties of reconstruction or the coalition's counter-narcotics strategy, it wrote.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:17 PM

Precisely. Aiming the complaints at the lad himself is completely beside the point. Don't blame the monkey if you don't like the tune the organ grinder has selected. And don't blame the monkey for being an organ grinder's monkey.

And "monkey" here isn't intended as an insult, it's just an analogy. And I like monkeys anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:02 PM

The monkey was part of the conspiracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:25 PM

Thanks Sal.

Backwardman, I don´t need to send you a link as no doubt you are able to do this yourself. Anything I would supply would be dismissed by you as "****".

Young Hewitt flew out a few days ago to get the ride back on the plane, great timimg about the story breaking. If young Hewitt had been out there one of his drug fuelled friends would have broke the story weeks ago. Go to Myspace or Facebook and read the accounts of those he once served with and read their accounts of the story, they are laughing about it and saying young Hewitt finds the story funny, he was never there, that came from British soldiers and close friends of his. Young Hewitt wasn´t out of the country that is for sure.

And anyone who can support the royal leeches deserved to be lead by the nose concerning this story, give it a week or two and Prince Philip will drop him in it !

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: themoment
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:37 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-1H5rZ3LaQ

to the tune of "Johnny I Hardly Knew You"....everybody sing along!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: mg
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:56 PM

I am of the opposite view..I think Prince Harry shows potential for greatness of some sort in some field...I don't get the same impression of Prince William...surely competence and skill but I see something extra in Harry...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 03:55 PM

Backwardman, I don´t need to send you a link as no doubt you are able to do this yourself. Anything I would supply would be dismissed by you as "****".

Answer the question Knob.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 03:56 PM

I'm sure this from YouTube will confirm some people's suspicions. Proof that Prince Charles is the Antichrist

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Acorn4
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 06:30 PM

Just watched the TV documentary about his stint in Afghanistan -
he came over very well ; perhaps it was lucky that the cover was blown - before he got killed by the Americans!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: The PA
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:46 AM

I'm undecided. Half of me has watched all the coverage and thinks 'Yeh good on ya', shows his late moms spirit and goes and gets his hands dirty.
But the other half says, well he joined the army - just what did he expect? Special treatment - my friends son has been out there 5 times so far, and he didnt have a body guard! Just takes his chances with the rest.

But I have to say the one who completely pisses me off is that bloody princes Anne. There she is on rememberance day all uniformed up and up to her armpits in medals!!
Excuse me did I miss something - just what bloody war did she fight in. She has absolutely NO right to be wearing medals. Medals are for brave people and I dont call telling the press to 'naff off' as brave

Rant over.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:55 AM

Well today we see young Hewitt has got it into his head that the young tart he is seeing at the moment could become a target because a few still believe he was out in the sands.

Protection for this SOUTH AFRICAN girlfriend will cost the British taxpayer between 74,000 - 80,000 pounds a week !

So your granny like so many others may well get a letter from her local hospital to say they can´t afford to do her hip operation.

Something to think about.

Princess Anne has two medals, One for "Horse of the year" the other "Best turned out horse". Sadly neither horse she rode on these two occasions won a medal.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: The PA
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:32 AM

Thought she WAS 'horse of the year'.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:38 AM

You got it PA !

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 11:03 AM

Windsor Knot-you still haven't shown us any proof to your claims that he wasn't in Afghanistan, just your tired mantra about myspace. Well, how about a link, or don't you want us to know (that's right, no one ever lies on myspace) that you're full of it. And while we're at it, what other conspiracy theories do you subscribe to, since nothing seems to be cut and dry for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 02:08 PM

IrisElish. So you are willing to be spoon fed by the knocked up news reports issued from Buck House ? I read the reports from guys he trained with and know young Hewitt. So everyone on Myspace tells lies ? So what´s the link to your page on it then ?

Young Hewitt has come out to defend Paul Burrell today after it was claimed he is skilled at putting an extention on a guys spine.

Says it all, says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 02:19 PM

My myspace is private, and shall remain so. My username is irishenglish. Where are the reports you have mentioned, give us a link, this is the third time I have asked you for a specific link. I would like to see where you get this info from. Maybe I might be persuaded, although your continued spouting of innuendo from guys he supposedly trained with is just as spoon fed as what you accuse me of. I at no time said that everyone on myspace lies, I said, like no one has lied on there before. You can't even get your accusations right against me.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:04 PM

So Windsor Knot, all those photos I have seen of Harry in uniform in terrain that is definitely not anywhere in the UK, where were those taken? Back lot at the BBC? Spain? Israel? Oh, that's right, he's in Area 51. Or maybe Roswell.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:05 PM

Elish, check a couple of posts up you said "(that's right, no one ever lies on myspace)"

Dear dear, how can I be expected to converse with such a short memory span.

Sorry, I en´t your research student, do what I did, find them yourself Elish.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:16 PM

Yeah that's right, no one ever lies on myspace, meaning some people do, not everyone, but I guess you're mister perfect and you never make mistakes. Not that is even a mistake. Your refusal to back up your assertions means that your proof is non existent. By the way, I never called you anything other than Windsor Knot, so you do not have the right to abbreviate, or mislabel my username in any way whatsoever. My username is irishenglish, and that is how to address me.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM

Trolls should be ignored.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:23 PM

Thanks, consider yourself ignored TROLLKNOT.
Cheers art

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 05:16 PM

Young Harry. I don't see him as that soldier. I see him walking behind his mother's coffin, doing his utmost not to cry his heart out, and he got there. I see her throwing her arms tight around both her sons, in absolute joy at being reunited with them. I see Harry, William and Diana, always smiling.

Now he's plagued by the same vultures who, it cannot be denied, played a large part in his mother's death. Think how angry that must make him feel. Everywhere he goes, he's followed by them. He has never been allowed to grieve in peace. He and his brother have grown up with continuous 'theories' being written/made up about the Mum they both adored, mainly to sell papers.

So yes, Harry may get sozzled out of his brain now and then. Hell, wouldn't YOU? He may make stupid mistakes, same as many youngsters do. However, have any of you angry people in here, ever stopped spewing out your bile long enough to consider that perhaps, just PERHAPS Harry is even angrier than you?

Diana, as far as I'm concerned, did one helluva lot for the Royal Family, she made them 'human'. She was able to reach out to people, hug, touch, love them. Yes, I know that some find public emotion a bad thing, but never forget, the British people turned out in their hundreds of thousands to bid her farewell. It had never been seen before and what happened on that day, will never be seen again. It was truly extraordinary.

Yes she knew how to use the media, when it suited her, but who can blame her? She more than made up for that in the love she gave to so many people, of all backgrounds, people she was never afraid to sit on the floor with, invite round for tea, write thank-you letters to, call in to their homes and have a cuppa with etc. In my mind, she was quite an extraordinary woman, and this country is far poorer without her. She drew attention to many charities, to many things that were wrong with the world. She could have merely stayed at home with her feet up.

Yes, there are many 'wasters' in the Royal Family, but then there are many 'wasters' in all areas of society aren't there? Nowadays Diane has been replaced with Posh and Becks, as far as the media are concerned. Need I say more?

I've a strong feeling that 'come the day' neither of her sons will let her down. But give them a little more time. They've had a traumatic early life, as indeed have many, many other people, but they have never been allowed to see their mother rest in peace, never been allowed to just get on with their lives, having to endure so much under the microscope. Even to this very day the papers are still filled with yet more stories about their mother.

They are behaving no differently to many young people these days, it is the culture they have grown up in, sadly. Go into any city or town and you'll find so many of our young people drunk, vomiting and ill. You don't have to be a Prince of the Realm to join in. Maybe they're as unhappy as Harry, in this world that's ceased to care?

Yes, he still has a lot to learn, so did I at that age, but he's probably not so very different from my young lad, or yours. I'm sure he'd give every one of his grandmother's jewels to have his mother back again. There's a gaping hole there, which may never heal, but hopefully, the pain may become a little easier as he grows older. As as for Harry's Army 'Career' I'd rather he was studying the words of Martin Luther King Jr.

"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love."

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: DougR
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:43 PM

Good for Harry. I am under the impression that his cover was blown by a couple of publications in Australia but it was the story on Drudge Report that caught the attention of the world press. My hats off to the press in Great Britain for recognizing the need to keep Harry's activities secret as long as possible. That would not have been possible with the press in the U.S.   Our press likely would have printed the story as soon as it was known in hopes that some terrible thing would happen to Harry so they could shove microphones under the Royals' noses and ask them to tell the public "how they feel."

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:12 AM

Appaloosa Lady, Yes there is a lot of truth in what you say, but you must admit the Royal Family live like leeches of the backs of ordinary people. Their wealth was amassed over several hundred years,a lot stolen from other countries, the working class of Britain and by government handouts.

Young Hewitt is no different, yesterday he asked for protection of a young South African tart he is seeing at a cost of upto 80,000 pounds a week and it was granted.Few local kids could call that one in.

In regard to your remark, "Now he's plagued by the same vultures who, it cannot be denied, played a large part in his mother's death."

I don´t think he is plagued by MI5.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 03:25 PM

WK, I am no royalist. I am a realist.

Many families have wealth amassed from centuries past. Much of it came to them from the toil of the working people they employed, at a pittance. That is still carrying on today. Slavery is far from extinct. We have, as a nation, taken much from other countries throughout history, true, but other countries have also taken from each other. We are not alone as a nation, neither are the Royal Family, as people.

I do not hear you bringing Salman Rushdie into this argument. He too has had his life 'protected' by the British taxpayer for a very long time, with very little thanks being given for that, from things I have read. It has cost us millions I think. However, we believe in free speech in this country and so have entirely backed someone whose life was threatened, purely for writing a book. Many people have to live under police protection for various reasons, often for a very long time. Where is your raging voice about that?

Harry, now it has been revealed he has fought in Iraq, has become 'a target'. He will remain so for many years to come. Those who choose 'never to forget' seldom do, and I would not want to be in that young man's shoes for all the wealth his family have 'amassed'over the centuries. Not only that, but those who are close to him, particularly his girlfriends, now and in the future, and eventually his wife and children, will also become, and possibly remain 'targets' for a very long time.

Harry was right to ask for protection for those about him, particularly at the moment. He did not ask for this news to be leaked, and no doubt, had it not, then he would not be in this position now, and in the foreseeable future, nor would his girlfriend. If it were my daughter, or yours, no doubt you would think differently?


Basically, when the news was 'leaked' Harry's life changed overnight.

He, and his brother, have always been targets for various people, but now, Harry has moved up the list somewhat. I expect he knew this would happen, when he thought about going to Iraq, but he still chose to go, feeling himself to be 'just a soldier' along with the rest of his comrades. However the repercussions of that decision may come to haunt him for a long time.

Yes, his grandmother and father could afford to pay for the protection themselves, but if that is the case, then every soldier who comes back from Iraq, whose name is released to the press, should surely also be made to pay for protection themselves? You cannot have one rule for one, and one for another, can you? Does Salman Rushdie still receive protection? I've no idea, but I'm sure he too could probably afford to pay for his own bodyguards these days. His life will always be in danger I should imagine. Harry though, is an even greater target, now.

MI5? Theories will abound forevermore. At the end of the day though, that night in Paris, two young boys simply lost the mother they adored.

She gave them more love than possibly the rest of their family put together, she cuddled them and loved them, laughed with them, and cried with them. She took them into hostels, into hospitals, into local burger bars, and local funparks. She gave them 'their people' not wrapped up in jewels and designer furs, but in Aids Wards and places for the homeless, in the high streets and the shops.

However she died, for whatever reason, and by whoever's hand, Harry and William are the ones who suffered that night, more than this nation, more than the Royal Family.

I was there, in London, very shortly before her funeral and I will never forget the overwhelming silence of thousands of people, walking the pavements towards Kensington Palace. It was an Army. Not a sound, not a word was heard, other than the call of the newspaper sellers, wanting to make their money from her, even has she lay, not far away in St. James's. The over-powering scent of that ocean of flowers will never leave me. In the midst of it all stood one horse, stock still, the policeman on his back watching the scene with the saddest of expressions. The flowers reached the knees of his horse, but that beautiful animal stood there as silent as the people who had brought them.

Her son's life will now be in danger, for simply doing what every other soldier is called upon to do, yet the majority of soldiers are able to return home to live their lives without incident or worry. Harry can no longer do that. His life is already 'police protected' It is only right that those closest to him are now brought under that umbrella of safety.

Think on this WK, if his mother had been allowed to keep HER police protection, she may still be alive today. Therefore I do not begrudge her sons one single penny.

The powers that be can take it out of what they saved on Diana.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: billybob
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 09:58 AM

Well done A Lady.
I was not going to post here as so much rubbish was being written, but your common sense was refreshing to read!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM

Appaloosa Lady, excellent post. Yes your explanation holds some water. I myself found the public outcrying of grief for Diana at the time of her death was well over the top. How many among that crowd knew her ? a collection of sad people with little in their lives only a desire to be part of something. Many mothers and children loose their lives on a daily basis and you never see strangers hitting their heads against lamp posts or howling in the streets over them.

Diana´s death was a sad event, but this woman lead a charmed life and people like you and I funded it. She was on holiday with her boyfriend in France at the time, not driving back from Tesco´s with two kids in the back seat.

I agree with you regarding Salman Rushdie. He made millions from the sale of his book and never offered to repay the cost of his protection. Young Hewitt should not be allowed to snap his fingers and call out for protection for some girl he is seeing at the moment. That is wrong, NO PUBLIC THREAT HAS BEEN MADE AGAINST HER if he wants someone to watch over the poor girl, ask granny to put her hand in her pocket.

I don´t know about you, but if the items on your weekly supermarket bill showed a few extra pence added to it for the annual staff dinner you would ask questions. Protection for this girl will come to almost 80,000 pounds a week (paid for by the taxpayer)! The police didn´t call for it, nor did the national security services, it was at the request of young Hewitt, no one else.

What any of the named soldiers who picked up gallantry medals and were all over the news, I doubt their families receive protection. Are you aware of any of then calling for an armed guard ?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 03:05 AM

"Many mothers and children loose their lives on a daily basis and you never see strangers hitting their heads against lamp posts or howling in the streets over them."

You should come to east London next week then. It's the anniversary of the murder of a young black boy, as far from the Princess of Wales as you could possibly get - but I bet you there will be flowers laid at the spot where he died, just as there were a year ago.

And I know that a year ago, many of those flowers were laid by people who had never met or heard of the boy Adam, who died. There was an open display of grief from many people who never knew this boy existed, but had been murdered in their street, in my street. They laid their flowers as much for the death of their peace of mind as for his memory.

Oh, and by the way, 'lose' means 'to suffer the deprivation of'... 'loose' means 'the opposite of tight'.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot.
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 06:49 AM

The death of Adam Regis was tragic, another sad example of youth crime. I see enough of it here in Manchester.I doubt Liz it will be on the same scale as Diana´s funeral.

Adam Regis aged 15 was a victim of a fall out among local black gang members. Police say they know who carried out the crime, but need the help of the local community to nail them. Maybe they should consider talking to the police next weekend instead of buying flowers.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:23 AM

It must be so galling, WK, to see all these people getting the attention and respect that is really due to you, as the only truly perfect human being in existence.

Wake up to yourself, you sad, sour specimen.

There must be something good in your miserable life. Why not concentrate on that instead of trying to bring everyone else down to your level.

Young Harry may be the scion of an overprivileged family, but he insisted on being allowed to follow the career he had wanted since childhood, and further insisted on going with his comrades into action.

He did not, as you suggest have bodyguards in Afghanistan, excepting of course the other soldiers with whom he was deployed. He did not ask, nor did he receive, special treatment while on deployment, and I strongly suspect that he is already pestering his superiors with requests to get back into action.

He is a brave and dedicated soldier. Tell me WK, what have YOU done for our country?......Nothing?.....Thought so!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM

Don(Wyziwyg)T you don´t half talk some sh1t. Try life without the blinkers on, you never know your brain could also engage through time.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 06:14 AM

If you want to be taken seriously here, post some backing for YOUR bullshit claims.

And don't try to join in a battle of wits with the grownups. You are only half equipped.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 06:44 AM

Sorry PAL I am answerable to you, reading some of your previous posts, Christ there is a stage awaiting you somewhere, now go boil your head or something.

It is somewhat pleasing to know I got to you, Thanks again for letting me know.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:33 AM

Don't feed the twat, Don.
If we ignore him, he might get bored of baitibg his intellectual superiors, and go out and find a busy road to play on.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 02:41 PM

Backward by name, backward by nature. Well I see your point attempting to restore friendships here after putting your foot in it on another thread. Big Opps wasn´t it !!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:19 PM

Keep the personal squabbling out of this thread, or I'll have to close it.
Windsor Knot, get a life.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:28 PM

Me get a life ! Now that is rich, I have a wonderful life, no need to find my friends thought internet ! Close it if you want Joe, that´s what you do when your circle calls for it, it´s old school tie again, your close circle calls Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Gervase
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:37 PM

Why is it that so many shaky-eggs, conspiracy theorists and internet losers are just so bloody rude online? One wonders if they walk up to people in real life and start hectoring them with their absurd beliefs and then throwing their toys out of the pram when someone tries to point them in the direction of reality. Sadly the internet makes even the smallest rodent pugnacious.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:07 PM

I feel sorry for the kid, as he seems to by trying to man up.

What if it was the Queen who outed him, or has anyone already said that thrice? I haven't the strength to read another long thread after trying to teach someone in a coma to count to twelve all day.

:)

B#B#, the entertainer formerly known as CC

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:40 AM

"Well I see your point attempting to restore friendships here after putting your foot in it on another thread. Big Opps wasn´t it !!!!!"

Windsor No-Willy, at least when I put my foot in it, I have the balls and the grace to apologise in public (and to privately have lengthy correspondence with the MEMBER I upset in order to, at least partly, mend the fence) - in other words, to behave like an adult. You might learn something from my example.

Joe, this dick has gone far enough - please close the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 04:05 AM

Well we see the British tax payer has been taken for a ride once again by the free loaders known as the Winsors. Prince William flew a Royal Air Force Chinook helicopter to the home of that young tart, Kate Middleton's garden. William has drawn criticism for his personal use of military craft and reopened a controversy in Britain about his and his brother's privileged role in the armed forces during a time of war. A few weeks ago he flew his half brother, young Hewitt to a stag night in another RAF helicopter.

---

Unattributed copy-paste deleted. It was posted as if it had been written by the poster. You can view this article at time.com. If you post information obtained from other sources, please tell us where it came from. If it's more than one screen of information, post a summary or excerpt, plus a link.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 04:35 AM

You can't help thinking - why SRV, and not those two....

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 09:01 AM

Come on Drummer - you don't really want them to die do you? Stevie Ray Vaughn was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why wish that on these two kids? That's pretty silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 10:19 AM

Stevie was a talented artist. There is a big difference in a self made man and a couple of privileged free loaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:40 AM

"Prince William flew a Royal Air Force Chinook helicopter to the home of that young tart, Kate Middleton's garden."

They don't call it the "Royal Air Force" for nothing you daft prat.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 12:16 PM

When news broke that Prince Harry had been serving in the dangerous Helmand province, many British papers lionized his bravery and commended the military for treating him as "one of the lads." But others criticized the Ministry of Defense for allowing Harry to be put in harm's way.


I don't know Windsor Knot....if you wrote that then you must believe that Prince Harry did serve in Afghanistan. If you copied that from somewhere else, then the writer of that believes that Prince Harry did serve in Afghanistan, and you yourself have just contradicted yourself from earlier in the thread when you said-"Harry was photographed on a firing range in the south east, they couldn´t risk sending him into the line of fire. So to recap, you made an assertion that you refused to show proof for, you then either wrote or used a quote that goes directly against said claim. Wow, glad to see all the time since you last posted has been time well spent.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 12:41 PM

All repeat after me:-

"Don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll.........."

If that doesn't work, try repeating the phrase "Talk to the hand, troll"

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 12:59 PM

For the attention of the backwardone. I repeated what was reported, their words not mine. Are you still digging holes for yourself with your teeth ? Insulted any more friends lately about their famiy ?

Teribus, Prince William spoke recently about time he spent with the Royal Marines. He referred to a story he heard about an army cook who boasted about being involved in interrogation on a music website. Did you see or hear that interview ? Ring any bells ?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: irishenglish
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 01:09 PM

Quote your sources then, and your use of the quote about Harry contradicts what you have stated in the past. The least you could have done was link the article and say, "I don't believe Harry was in Afghanistan personally, btw" or something to that effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 04:28 PM

Instead of calling people "troll," respond in a civil and logical manner and don't take the bait.
You'll find this technique can work quite well - and you'll avoid making yourself look like a fool.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 10:37 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:19 PM

Better yet, just don't respond at all. That drives them even more crazy.

I'm learning not to.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 05:16 AM

Amen, Sorcha.
But it's difficult! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Windsor Knot
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:06 AM

Excellent post Backswoodsman on (22 Apr 08 - 10:37 PM)

Why can't we see more like that from you ?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:20 AM

"Joe, this dick has gone far enough - please close the thread."

Perhaps it would just be better if you and WK stopped calling each other names and behaving like naughty children. You both have valid points of view. So let's stick to insulting the useless royal drones that are wasting our money, instead of each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 05:21 AM

Mr Knot's jibe about army cooks probably means
that he was one of the anti British protagonists
in the old Northern Ireland threads.
It was a lie they used for a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 08:34 PM

What a star indeed. So what do you all think of young Hewitt now.
Harry has put his foot in it just like the Queens husband has done a few times. In a video we see him showing him using racist insults The prince called one Asian trainee "our little Paki friend".A newspaper has a videotape shot by the prince as he was about to embark on training as a combat helicopter pilot in an airport for their flight to Cyprus.

Panning around the floor, over his bored or sleeping fellow trainees, focusing on his colleagues, Harry comments "now that is bad admin, bad admin" before it tracking over and zooming in on an Asian cadet yards away.
"Anybody else around here?" he asks. "Ah, our little Paki friend... Ahmed."
Ahmed is thought to be Ahmed Raza Khan, a Pakistani who won the award for the best overseas cadet at Sandhurst.
In a separate incident, the 24-year-old is heard calling another officer cadet who is jokingly wearing a veil on his head a "f***ing raghead".


Referring to the use of the word "Paki", a statement from Clarence House said: "Prince Harry fully understands how offensive this term can be - and is extremely sorry for any offence his words might cause.
The Muslim Council of Great Britain, said that the remarks were "very, very disappointing".
"Many Muslims will be very disappointed that someone like that has used this kind of language and he really needs to come out with a clear statement distancing himself from this," he said.
A senior Ministry of Defence (MoD) official said "This sort of language is not acceptable in the modern army."
A spokesman for the Equality and Human Rights Commission said it would investigate.


The spokesman said: "These appear to be disturbing allegations and we will be asking the MoD to see the evidence, share their investigation with us and their plans for dealing with it."
The commission has been working with the MoD to deal with racism in the armed forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Mr Yeahbut
Date: 11 Jan 09 - 10:48 PM

Yeah but... our young twat Prince 'Arry is in the effin army..

so what do you think his mate Ahmed and all the other robust young lads in his unit
'endearingly' call him for a nick name !!!???

get f@ckin real..

its the Army... !!!!

theres far worse going on in the world which should dominate todays news headlines..


ps.. I aint by no means a royalist [get rid of the effin parasitic lot of 'em I says..]
or a militarist apologist..


just a grown up bloke with mates of all colours and creeds
who merrily take the piss out of each other at work, down the pub,
and on the playing fields of merry England..

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:27 AM

Johnny, this guys in the army - like i'm in folkmusic.

Dilletante, or what......its just somewhere where hopefully he can be kept further out of the public eye than if he were knocking back the diamond whites at University, and appearing on the Jeremy Kyle show with some dim bint saying, 'actually i love 'im ter bits, but he only visits the kids when he wants to have sex'.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:40 AM

What annoys me is the fact that the guy probably is from Pakistan anyway.... Paki is short for Pakistani..
Aussie is short for Australian... We use Yank for the Americans..... what is the big deal???
Our Prince was using the term... affectionately......
It is the army!!! Yes but it is also reality.
I personally do not call Pakistanis Pakis...out of choice... but do not see the harm unless it is being used in a malicious manner........ ie in racially tense or provocativer behaviour! Isn't this being PC lark going a bit too far?????

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: caitlin rua
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 06:03 AM

No, Guest Who Is Too Much Of A Coward To Sign Their Name, no one is saying that. If you'll take the trouble to actually READ what they're saying you'd realise that.

What bugs me is the way this trivial event has been trumpeted from here to Sunday and seven times round the mountain (which is actually a molehill). I don't mean Guest Alan, I mean the media. Does anyone really believe that Harry is the only one who talks that way? Is a common abbreviation and informal slang really that big a deal when it's not meant as a dedicated insult? Ever hear the way guys talk to each other in the pub or the locker room? (OK, so I've never actually been in a men's locker room when it's in use, but the school yard was enough.) Maybe we should just confine ourselves to Newspeak.

This sort of PC tut-tutting dilutes public awareness of all the genuine and harmful racism that goes on, covering it behind a smokescreen that tries to deter you from saying anything, until you get sick of monitoring every syllable for possible Offense. First speech, then thought.

You get Correctness Fatigue after awhile, which is a potent – but dangerous – equaliser.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 06:22 AM

Another classic Mountain out of a Molehill ! What I would like to know is who is the Git who (Probably for a LOT of Money) passed this video to the N o t W Its THREE Years old , for God's sake !

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 06:34 AM

What a shower of sycophantic prats - the man's a fascist, just like his old man - but then again, that's what inbreeding does for you.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:01 PM

I thought that anonymous Guest postings had been banned?? Yet here we have two of them.

"Paki" is an accepted abbreviation - If you doubt that go to middle and far east. It is commonly used within the Indian/Pakistani community in the UK and if it is OK and acceptable for them to use the term it should be likewise OK and acceptable for anyone else to use the term.

The offence comes in how it is used, not in the term itself. There was obviously no derogatory intent in this case, and considering the shape the world is reportedly in at present, if this three year old story warrants being spread across the headlines of MSM, then we ain't in too bad a state.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 12:29 PM

""Paki" is an accepted abbreviation"

Really? I wouldn't say so and where I was brought up it was used pejoratively to denote anyone of Asian origin. When I moved away from the area to where I lived now a friend of mine came to stay and one of the maggots I laughingly called 'friends' in those days said to me "Christ - he's a Paki!". I had their measure before, but that sealed it.

It's a racist term and the way people have jumped to the defence of this over-privileged tosspot we all have to pay for is sickening. You'd get sacked for using that language anywhere else and quite rightly.

" It is commonly used within the Indian/Pakistani community in the UK and if it is OK and acceptable for them to use the term it should be likewise OK and acceptable for anyone else to use the term."

Funny that, but the word "nigger" is also used within the black community - is it OK and acceptable for anyone else to use the term?

No it isn't, unless of course you're a racist or some other breed of right-wing snotstain.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:08 PM

Sugarfoot, you beat me to it. According to this Pakistani it is like the "N word."

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Ternibis
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:12 PM

He also called muslims "ragheads" what about his real father Major Hewitt, he is said to be so angry.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:17 PM

"Funny that, but the word "nigger" is also used within the black community - is it OK and acceptable for anyone else to use the term?"

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:46 PM

Rascist read Bully or worse.

I have spent many an hour with freinds who are Indian, Pakistani, Jamaican, West Indian, Jewish etc.
We have joked about each other using various words and just laughed about it. We have given as good as we get.

When are stupid politically correct people going to get it in their head that just becuase you use a word DOES NOT MAKE YOU RASCIST.

What is the world coming to.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:46 PM

Teribus,

Can I be there when you test your theory out?

Please!

Lets go to leicester together and first we'll stop off in highfields and you can explain to the black community why its ok for you to call them "niggers", and then, dependant on time and other potential obstacles, we can go down towards East Park Road and you can explain to some Pakistanis why its ok for you to call them "pakis".

We could send the video to "who's been framed?".

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:54 PM

to be honest, I'd say this is a weird one.

I grew up in rural Lincolnshire, where you never saw a black face in the 1950's. for a short time (fifteen months) I went to public school where there were a lot of kids from all around the world and all the 'racist' terms that you heard on Til Death Us Do Part, were used a little in the way that Harry used them - not with anger, not with any idea of the violence contained within them, but with a note of humour in the voice.

The place I went after that was Exeter Tech college and there were loads of working class kids from Iran there, and in my public school ignorance I called one a wog one day, whilst we were playing football. It nearly caused a riot. I went home told my parents - they had no sympathy with me.

Basically this latest thing in the paper is England's ruling classes - so proud of their wonderful education system - having no idea of the world in which we live, and no idea of why it is sidelining this country to the role of an embarrassing - if occasionally entertaining - anachronism.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 01:58 PM

Villan - I thin that Harry and Ahmed might indeed have been able to joke about it with each other.

Good for Him and Ahmed.

For many other Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis, particularly from older generations, the word "Paki" is one ingredient in a package of abuse including other terms like "dirty" etc and also including violence and intimidation.

This is not something from ancient history but exists in peoples living memories and revives feelings of fear and pain.

As such it was foolish and insensitive of him to record himself saying it as there was always a risk that it might fall into the wrong hands.

That is why he apologized and he was right to do so and not to say something like "There's nothing wrong with calling someone a Paki."

I too have been in social situations where I have used words like that in Jest, and in the process fel I was disempowering them as terms of abuse.

As the years have gone by, the shock value of the humour has on the one hand worn off, so that all that remains is a term of abuse and on the other hand I have realised that the mutual testing of boundaries that went with it wasn't really something I needed to do anymore.

Nowadays I have become more considerate and as I have a million other ways to express myself I allow myself to see beyond obvious predictable areas of focus and I realate to people on more varied and interesting ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:01 PM

He should have called him a "Paddy".

There wouldn't have been quite as big a fuss.

Seamus

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:05 PM

When it suits it suits

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:03 PM

He is a racist, simple as that. I have many great friends of differing race, but I WOULD NEVER CALL THEM THOSE NAMES.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: bubblyrat
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 06:07 PM

Just a few years ago, the late Anglo-Irish comedian Spike Milligan appeared on our television screens as a mixed-race Pakistani-Irish worker called "Paki-Paddy", and everyone laughed ! ( including the --er--um--people from Pakistan,shall we say ??). Personally, I cannot see what all the fuss is about. I am quite sure,and certain, that there are people in Wales--Scotland--France--Germany--Russia--Italy--Pakistan---India---Egypt---Turkey---Australia---Canada---The USA---Mars---Ursa Major---who all have less-than-complimentary names which they often use to describe ME, an Englishman !! In fact, I would be UTTERLY AMAZED if that were not the case !! And do you know what ?? I DON'T GIVE A FUCK !! Why not ?? Because I believe in HUMAN NATURE, and that is something that you will NEVER legislate against !I served for 11 years in the British Navy, and ,probably on a daily basis, I referred to Krauts--Frogs--Eyeties-Dagos--Slopeheads--Chinks--Wogs --Coons--Jocks-- Taffs--Brown Hatters- Poofs--Knob Jockeys--ShirtLifters--Ass(arse)Bandits--the list goes on and on and it was all POLITICALLY INCORRECT !! But hey !---That's Sailors for you!! We meant no HARM by it...we sought not to incite RACIAL HATRED by it...it was just the way we SPOKE about things and people.And ANYONE who seeks to take that away from us is a FASCIST !!And,if I lived in India, or Pakistan ,or Harlem,where I might get called "Honky", or "White Trash", am I going to burst into tears and 'phone the United Nations ?? No Way !! Come on, all you snivelling, sycophantic,bleeding-heart Liberal apologists out there ---get real, and get a life, and concentrate on some REAL issues, like Gaza and Zimbabwe. (Please !!).

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: skipy
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 06:28 PM

Guest Alan, then you are not close enough to them! If you & they are truly friends there would be NO problem. I spent 25 years in the military & never, repeat never saw any racism, but we called each other whatever suited.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 08:50 AM

Thanks Bubbly and Skipy, some common fuckin' sense being spoken at long last.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 09:14 AM

times change...the world changes. you can't say 'what you want' any more. and if we're in with a chance of it being a better world, if we give it a go. perhaps we all should. even members of the royal family.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 10:11 AM

More's the pity, Al.

But the truth is that, as usual, it's a case of bone-idle, brain-dead so-called 'journalists' going for the lowest common denominator - they never allow real news about real issues get in the way of a good old-fashioned bit of rabble-rousing do they?

In the light of all the other serious stuff going on around the world, someone calling someone else a daft name on a private video (which should never have been published in the first place, IMHO), pales into utter insignificance. It's playground stuff, and if the worst thing anyone ever has to 'suffer' is being called a daft name by a pal, they'll be doing alright, won't they.

And the crazy thing is that, if this video hadn't been made public by these dopey journos, no-one other than a very small handful of people would have ever even heard what was said, and a very great many people would have been saved whatever 'hurt' or 'insult' they've chosen to feel. So who's the worse Racist - Harry or the Journos?

I know where my vote goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 11:42 AM

The next time anybody takes the piss out of me for being a brummie, I am going to accuse them of being rascist. If the Scots, Welsh and Irish can do it, so can I.

All bloody ludicrous really. I find all the jokes (no matter how bad or distateful they may seem to some) about Brummies just humerous and never find them offensive. However if I had somebody who was obviosly aggresssive to me becuase I was a Brummie, that would be a different situation.

We have to be able to distinguish humour from rascism. There are some miserable buggers out there.

God help us if anybody ever forces The Black Country to be changed to anything else. When I lived in Brum, there was always great humour between us and the Black Countryites.
In fact if you listened to all the black country jokes, you would think everybody was called Aynock & Ali

Aynock: Wots the difference between a buffalo and a bison
Ali: Dow now mate
Aynock: You cor wash yer onds in a buffalo

Aynock always thought their Aylie was in need of a little ferther education so decided he would tek im to the big city, Bermingham.

Aynock took him round the city explainin what building was what and the local history attached to them. Eventually they arrived at Victoria Suare and by this time Aylies brain wus in a right spin, suddenly Aylie turned and saw the large building and said to Aynock 'is thet a palace our kid ', naa seys Aynock, that's the Council House. ****** hell ses Aylie I've got me name down for one of them.

White van man to pedestrian:
S'cuse me mate does yow now if there's a B & Q in Wolverhampton?
Pedestrian:
Sorry mate oi don't, but I nows theres 2 D's in Dudley


Now come on how many of you round the country have taken the piss by telling these sort of jokes and had no intention of being insulting to the Black country People. Simple humour but still IMHO funny and not offensive, even if it does portray them as a bit simple.

In actual fact the Black country dialect is one of the oldest dialects in the country.

Lets liven up and deal with more serious issues like stopping bully countries from going in and blitzing other countries, killing innocent people - Iraq springs to mind.

Likewise, lets start putting all these morons that wander our streets effing and blinding and getting rat arsed and having big fights etc, behind bars. I am more worried about the lawlesness that has slowly crept up on us and is threatening our own safety.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 11:58 AM

"The next time anybody takes the piss out of me for being a brummie, I am going to accuse them of being rascist."

Well, here's the reason I'm a miserable bugger on this one. I moved from the outskirts of Brum when I was 16 to a small town south of Manchester. When I arrived here complete with accent I received a barrage of abuse I was totally unprepared for. Although many people were fine, I got such stick about my accent in the end I purposefully lost it in order to fit in.

I've regretted doing this ever since, and I'm sure the small-minded tossers who endlessly went on about my Birmingham accent never realised they were causing offence (I kept quiet about it), to them it was all a big laugh. Nowadays I don't give a shit. I would rather have been raised a Brummie than anything else and although not born there I consider myself a Brummie before anything else - at school we all thought of ourselves as Brummie.

I tell you what Villan, if everyone had the self-deprecating humour of the Brummies the world would be a better place.

The royal family are all w*nkers as far as I'm concerned anyway, racist or otherwise.

Bostin!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:12 PM

Sugarfoot
I am a real Brummie, born and bred in Great Barr and above all a Villa supporter. You are not a real Brummie if you are a Blues supporter.

I can't say I have ever experienced your issues and I have never tried to hide the fact that I am a Brummie. I have lived all over the country and Scotland and Holland.
One thing you can't really hide is your accent.
Les

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:22 PM

Nowadays I have become more considerate and as I have a million other ways to express myself I allow myself to see beyond obvious predictable areas of focus and I relate to people on more varied and interesting ground.

Well-said. One thing to point out: the WHITE world has by and large been the big, bad oppressors and it is them using the N word and others which continues the bullying/denigrating/etc. to minorities which effects whole communities. With a few exceptions, white humans have enslaved and debased those of more colour and it is NOT okay to use that kind of language in a day to day matter of fact way. Maybe in the military where it is "equal opportunity for denigrating nicknames" or between friends who are comfortable with such, but not in a general way. I don't agree with the video of Harry being released and causing such a furor, but I also don't agree that it should be condoned or shrugged off. A little education about the effect of such never goes amiss, imo.

An example which is non-racial: some girl friends and I have claimed the word "cunt" to take away the hateful way in which it is sometimes used and because we can joke comfortably with one another about it. We don't do it often, but still we do. Now, how would any of you feel if you found your mother/sister/daughter/etc. was being called a cunt as a daily off-hand reference?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:28 PM

solution to problem

Have we got enough troops left over there to send Harry on a tour of Northern ireland, equipped with The Frank Carson book of thick Paddy jokes?

I think a few bridge building exercises with the community round Crossmaglen should do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:30 PM

Kat
That reminds me of an expression I use as i was brought up on it in Birmingham.
If somebody does something daft. I say "You dosy twat". However I don't say it with malice or to offend. Its just an expression and I am normally smiling or laughing when I say it. Its almost like a term of endearment. I use it amongst friends or people I know well.
Les

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:36 PM

Want to say that I appreciated Lox's honest, personal and revealing posts here.

But ffs, wtf is Harry anyway? If he can't properly do his job as an official ambassador for the UK then he needs to earn his livlihood in other ways.

I have my own somewhat bizzare take on the Royal Family, and see them as a useful focus for those numbnuts (aplenty!) who still need incarnate Gods to worship. IMO they are a pragmatically valuable saftey valve against the kind of fanatical religious Idiolisation of politicians which has occured in other parts of the world. The deification in the public mind of politicians, is IMO one hell of a dangerous thing! Do 'Royal Families', help to divert that type of mindless public Idolatry? I for one, think that they may do so. And most valuably too.

I also think that Plato got it right about the dangers of Democracy. Our Royal Family are *in no way* to be mistaken for Plato's ideal of Philosopher Kings, But then that's a whole other thread for a whole other forum...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 12:59 PM

Prince Charles has become the latest member of the Royal Family to be embroiled in a race row after it was reported he calls an Asian man "Sooty". This gets better.

The development comes a few days after his son Harry was widely condemned for calling a former Army colleague by an offensive name.

Charles has apparently called Polo club member Kolin Dhillon Sooty.

Graham Smith, campaign manager for the organisation Republic, said: "I think it goes to show the Royal Family are not a symbol of unity, it's not something we can rally around, they're quite divisive.

"People are saying they are not racist but on the evidence in the public domain I think that's to the contrary.

"It also shows how hugely out of touch they are and that they live in a very isolated world, only mixing with a certain kind of person."

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 01:22 PM

The good thing is that 'Sooty' is coming to his defence.... The name has been used affectionately as was Harrys..... when will people see that it is only when the names are used 'OFFENSIVELY' that it becomes a problem.... Sooty is quite happy to be called Sooty.... wonder what he calls Charles?????. Harrys friend didn't actually complain himself.
Some people spend time looking for things to blow out of proportion... especially the press and the media.... why can't they try to understand what is happening and give the 'real' story instead ???

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 01:45 PM

I must call Amid a few names when I get my papers in the morning, let's see if he sees the funny side of it !

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:05 PM

I use it amongst friends or people I know well. My point exactly, Villan, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:30 PM

To "The Villan " and "Sugarfoot Jack": I used to teach in the Arts Faculty of a University in the UK, and I remember how members of Staff, with humorous intent, imitated a Billy-Connolly-style Glasgow accent, with the additional implication that those speaking with such an accent were ignorant, crude, ill-bred and ill-mannered. The fact that I have a Glasgow accent isn't the worst thing about such a demonstration of crass ignorance; it's the fact that the University was itself in Scotland, though as is usual there was a great preponderance of English Public Schoolboys among these "Academic colleagues". Was it E M Forster who said that, in Britain, "people are branded on the tongue"?

Returning to the current diversion taken by this thread, there was a Court case in Glasgow some ten years ago when some youth was arrested by a Police officer for using the very same "P" word in referring to a shopkeeper. When the case came to Court, and the shopkeeper was asked his name and occupation, he replied that he "keeps the wee Paki shop in ****** Road". Case dismissed.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:31 PM

"I am a real Brummie"

Me to.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:43 PM

>>the shopkeeper was asked his name and occupation, he replied that he "keeps the wee Paki shop in ****** Road". Case dismissed. <<

LOL That says it all :-)

Sugarfoot - up the Villa :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:50 PM

Reading some of the above, words like 'Grow', 'a' and 'skin' spring to mind.

I've been called all sorts of names by all sorts of people - usually by way of impolite and unpleasant reference to my being follically challenged and, until a few years ago, seriously overweight. I always found that the best way to confound someone who told me I was a 'baldy-bastard', or a 'fat cunt' was to ignore them. Works like a charm, and anyway who gives a flyin' fuck about a few words spoken by a prick? Life's too short to get in a lather about something so inconsequential.

And yes, Villan does call people 'dozy twat'. He's called me it loads of times, usually when I've behaved loik wun! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:54 PM

Many years ago, I used to teach sailing with a French organisation (Breton, if you want to split berets) which had/has bases in Ireland. I would arrive at the base with a list of the Irish stagieres/trainees provided by the Dublin office. At the bottom of the page it would say - ".... Plus fifteen Frogs."! My French equivalent would arrive similarly equipped with a list of the French trainees, from the Paris office - at the bottom of which was the line "Plus fifteen Paddies"!

Parity of lack of esteem has its advantages - provided it preserves a sense of humour.

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 03:02 PM

it's a good time to be a Villa fan - I hope to get to the Trinity Lane stand again before the season's out!

This is what they want!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 03:10 PM

""people are branded on the tongue"

This is true, and when I first moved here I acquired the nicknames "Jasper" and "Birmingham Bill". The latter was a tad unimaginative, but being called Jasper I considered a compliment especially as Jasper himself lived close to where I lived and he talked about places we knew, such as our local chippy.

I've heard the phrase"Dummie Brummie", but I'd rather be a dummie Brummie than a clever twat.

Jeff Lynne is God.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 03:48 PM

But Jasper is a Blues supporter LOL

Well you are not dosy BWM, but a twat at times, just like me LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 05:23 PM

So will it be okay to request the new president to sing "Old man river" in a few weeks time ? Does he use Robertson's Jam ?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 06:06 PM

I think you boys have your genders mixed up. We girls would never call each other cocks!:-)

Seriously, another Mudcatter sent me a link to this commentary and I was esp. interested in the 8th and 9th paragraphs, i.e. the casual culture of racism.

Since white men, as a whole, have never been a part of minority it may be difficult for them to fathom just how much words can effect a whole community, not just one member of such. And, I am talking colour and gender here, boys, not yer accents.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 07:47 PM

the thing is, if you were some minor public official - you might lose your job. certainly if you'd been working on the checkout and you used those termes, you'd probably get your cards for upsetting customers.

These people get zillions for the job they do. they will never have to worry about making a repayment, or wonder if they are getting the best medical advice or treatment.

they are not amateurs - they should know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 08:42 PM

Well said Al. Prince Philip has been doing it for years and getting off with it. We could also explore "Jack the Ripper" he was a royal.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 04:24 AM

Kat

I think its a yorkshire expression

It can be used as a term of address, usually affectionate. E.g."Right cock, that'll be 46 pence please. Would you like it in a bag?"

If I remember rightly Charlie Williams (British Comedian) used to call people "cock". one of the first black players in British football after the Second World War, and later became Britain's first well-known black stand-up comedian.

In fact, he broke all the rules about being PC.

He caused offence to some by defending the Robertson's golliwog trade mark, and for saying that immigrants to the UK should conform to the British way of life.

Makes you wonder doesn't it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 05:08 AM

One for The Villan:

"Cosner keck a bow agen a wow?"

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 05:11 AM

lol

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 06:35 AM

Prince Philip insults individuals and nations for years and got off with it. In recent years both India and China took offence at remarks he made. So in the case of Prince Charles the apple never falls far from the tree, as for Harry, well I don't know enough about Major Hewitts father.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 07:08 AM

Racism?

Just a pigment of the media's imagination.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 07:29 AM

It's just as offensive to insinuate (or plain outright state) that Prince Harry's father is not Prince Charles - but some of you are still doing it.

Paki, Nigger or bastard, they're ALL offensive.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,goatfell
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 07:48 AM

just like Prince Charles calling a black friend Sooty

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 08:09 AM

"It's just as offensive to insinuate (or plain outright state) that Prince Harry's father is not Prince Charles - but some of you are still doing it.

Paki, Nigger or bastard, they're ALL offensive."

Absolutely, Liz. As are 'Baldy-bastard' and 'Fat cunt'. But I'm not one of those who searches for things to be offended about, and I'm sufficiently adult to be able to disregard insults when they're aimed at me.

I stand by my earlier assertion - the guilt lies far greater on those who chose to publicise Harry's unfortunate choice of words in a deliberate attempt to whip up outrage and stir up racial tension than on his original use of those words.

Harry clearly wasn't trying to cause offence and outrage when he called his buddy "Paki", but the press definitely were when they published the video.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM

If I called a coloured member here a paki, my comment would be deleted as stated in rules and rightly so. If a pack of freeloaders like Charles and young Hewitt do it, everyone finds a reason to defend them.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 08:55 AM

Neither Harry or Charlie were being offensive and that's the crux of the whole 'racist' issue.... When the names, words, phrases etc are used OFFENSIVELY ... then it becomes racial abuse...... not when used affectionately. When will people learn???

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 08:58 AM

FOR INSTANCE.... if I were to call Backwoodsman a 'Baldy Bastard' at the Folk Club.... it would only ever be done in fun and he would accept that..... He would probably say something equally as funny to me and we would laugh about it........ neither of us would feel offended....
Can you imagine the newspapers the following day if they got hold of the story......
The whole thing is so pathetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 09:14 AM

Absolutely correct, GS.

As I said earlier, it's a modern fashion for the National Brigade of PC-Idiots to actively seek out offence where none is intended or need be taken. Quite deliberate over-sensitivity, for the sole purpose of taking some sort of imaginary 'High Moral Ground'.

And the gutter-press are guilty of whipping up racial tension by publishing something which was private, and should never have been published. When will someone take a grip on these flappy-mouthed dickheads in the media, and make them accountable for what they publish?

Whether Charles or Harry are freeloaders is totally irrelevant to this discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 10:16 AM

What is Prince Philips excuse ? he didn't know the the Indians he insulted (over memorial to those killed by the British) or "Chinks" he insulted.

Are you saying he is excluded from blame too ?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Mr Yeahbut
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 10:26 AM

yeah but..

Ok.. the royal family are a bunch or gormless parasitic cretins
who should be abolished and walled up permanently in a remote highland game park
at the earliest opportunity we have to vote on a referendum..

now then..

Does that sufficiently establish my anti-royalist credentials..

however, now lets stick to the main point that
these 2 wankhead individuals have been deliberately quoted out of context
by a maliciously profit motivated
irresponsible and anti social gutter press..

thank you and good afternoon..

Consistent identity does not mean in just the last few posts, rather a consistent identity always. I am going to allow this post, but if you start using multiple identities you will be deleted. Why not just join? But if you choose not to, you must stay consistent. Thanks.

---

Guest Policy, from Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 03:14 PM

If black people want to call each other 'nigger' using the term in an ironic reclamation of a racist sneer, that's fine. I'm certainly never going to call any other human being by such a name.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 04:03 PM

There is more racism among coloured than white on black. Africans hate Jamacians, they in turn hate Indians.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 09:03 PM

Sooty? He was a TV star Teddy Bear. Here's a picture of him.
...............................

The thing is sometimes words get loaded with hate and contept, and you just have to stop using them in any context where that message is liable to be understood. Nothing wrong with the word "yid", just the word for "Jewe" in theYiddish language - one that and thousands of non-Jewish Spurs fans use it regularly to refer to themselves - but in other settings it's a word to be avoided because it is takes on that load of hate and contempt from the way it's been used too often.

And it's the same for Paki, and that's what makes it different from Aussie or Scotty. Those abbreviations don't have that loading of hate and contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 05:04 AM

Try telling a USAian that he's not American but North American!!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:25 AM

The fact that Harry wasn't "deliberately trying to cause offence" by calling someone a Paki, that he was (possibly) using the term "affectionately", makes it no less racist.

There's an Asian girl in my daughter's class at school. Lincolnshire isn't a particularly culturally diverse part of the country, so she's one of a handful of non-white girls in the year group. My daughter came home one day quite shocked, because some of her friends had been referring to the girl as a "Paki". They even said it to her face. The girl laughted it off, because she felt she had to. She later told my daughter that she hated it, and that if her parents found out they'd go mad. But she continues to put up with it, because she doesn't want to have a row or alienate herself from the group.

Do these girls think they're causing offence? Probably not. Are they deliberately setting out to enforce racial hatred? Of course not. Are their words nevertheless hurtful and racist? Undoubtedly.

Thuis is the problem with low-level, culturally-reinforced racism. These were schoolgirls, probably just repeating what they've heard at home. Prince Harry really ought to bloody well know better. And I would have thought the same is true of some of the Mudcatters below who have defended it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:56 AM

"FOR INSTANCE.... if I were to call Backwoodsman a 'Baldy Bastard' at the Folk Club..."

Fine - but that's a bit of banter between you two. If you were to call Backwoodsman "Baldy Bastard" whenever you saw him, all the time and described his entire family as "Baldy Bastards" and anyone of his race as "Baldy Bastards" until an accepted term amongst your race for Backwoodsman and his people was "Baldy Bastards", and then sat at home one night some over-privileged whelp unbeknownst to you films you and it's broadcast on the news with the commentary "Ah, there's our Baldy Bastard friend Backwoodsman . . ." I'm guessing the ability to brush it off as a harmless josh would soon wear thin with him, his family and everyone he knows.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:13 AM

Sugarfoot
Thats exactly the point.
You have to distinguish between banter and something that is meant in a nasty way.
Of course Backwoodsman would put one on him, if he did what you had suggested. But then he wouldn't be a friend anyway if he did that.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:20 AM

We-e-ell SJ, I understand your point, but sorry old lad, I choose not to take offence when I'm insulted - as distinct from some others who seek to find offence in virtually everything they see and hear. AAMOF, I chose my current Mudcat name because it was a word used by another Mudcatter, one given to occasional hysterical rantings, in an effort to 'insult' me and some of my friends - I was so 'hurt' (NOT! I decided to change my name forthwith to Backwoodsman. :-)

Call me anything you like, I'm an adult and I don't give a shit. :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 08:35 AM

So I guess my daughter's friend should just laugh it off every time one of her "friends" calls her a Paki. After all, she doesn't want to be mistaken for someone who seeks to find offence in virtually everything she sees and hears. She needs to learn to distinguish between banter and something that is meant in a nasty way - even if the banter makes her feel like shit. She should just keep quiet about it, and certainly not be tempted to tell her parents, or a teacher, that she's regularly being called a racist name by other students.

Right?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:07 AM

On the contrary Ruth. If she is unhappy about it, she should report it to her teacher and parents. they should get together and discuss the best way to sort it.

Thats what I do, if something happens when somebody upsets my Autistic daughter. What I don't do, is go ranting and raving at the teacher or support person. I discuss calmly what the problem is and find a way round the problem. it's worked for me everytime.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:16 AM

As that rather more eloquent prince, Hamlet, puts it "No, no, they do but jest, poison in jest, no offence i'th'world."

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:24 AM

but what's happening at the moment, Villan, is that she doesn't want to rock the boat. As I implied before, she doesn't "want to be mistaken for someone who seeks to find offence in virtually everything she sees and hears." Because there are people who may think that "she needs to learn to distinguish between banter and something that is meant in a nasty way", and that she is over-sensitive, and they may exclude her from the group.

I think there are probably a lot of black people in her position - they are in largely white environments (like, say, the army?) where a kind of low-level culture of racism is tolerated. Things are said that may be offensive and upsetting to the recipient, but they don't want to become a social pariah, so they just laugh it off. And then the perpetrator thinks that what they've said is acceptable. And the culture carries on.

I think this is one facet of what's known as "institutionalised racism".

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:30 AM

And when the "joker" is third-in-line to the throne, it does rather tip the scale.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 09:43 AM

The Villian, I have to ask, if you saw footage of someone in a supposed position of authority, casually referring to someone with a disability as "Our Retard (Spastic/Cripple etc.) mate over there" would you personally find that acceptable?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:05 AM

Not a fair comparison Rosie, unless you regard Asian origins as a disability.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:19 AM

Thats hypothetical Rosie.I haven't seen anybody do that and secondly, it would be out of my hands, just like Prince Harry. I will face that if and when it happens and would want to know the facts before taking any action. The trouble in this world, is there are too many nosy parker busy bodies interfering in other peoples business (especially if they are high profile). People in glass houses....

As it is, I do not have any influence on the situation, unless it was related to my daughter. Then I would have to go and deal with it.

Personally I have enough looking after my own family's interests, to want to get involved in other peoples issues. My family has to come first. So Rosie, if you have somebody in your family facing that problem, go and deal with it quitly and decently with all parties involved and get it sorted. Above all, make sure you have the facts correct before you begin though. Don't take other peoples word for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:19 AM

Oh hell's bells. Racism and what happened in that video are two entirely different things. I'm with the people who say it was a private video Harry made...and I wonder how many other of Harry's mates call each other names. The NOTW is, imo, a bloomin' foul paper, dumbed down beyond belief. It's tried to make something out of nothing, and it'll have hurt and upset many people along the way. Why? Because they wanted to sell their sleazy rag and boot the Royals again, no other reason at all.

Heck, I'm often referred to in here as 'madlizziecornish' but I don't care, as I know it's purely a form of affection.   ;0) Those who are against names of any sort, be they nick names or other should have spoken out against that perhaps, but er...strangely..they didn't.

Double ;0)

When I was at school I was called 'Little Beck', because my older brother was 'Big Beck' and it came from his middle name, 'Beckwith' which was actually my grandmother's maiden name, on Dad's side. We never knew her, as sadly, she died when Dad was just 15, so I guess he wanted her name to be somewhere in his children's names as a way of keeping her close.

People always commented on the colour of my skin too, because I'm very pale, and they used to laugh like crazy every summer when they were golden brown all over and there was me, pale as a ghost, Seriously, I should have taken up 'haunting' as a profession.

But hey, you have to learn to develop a sense of humour about these things, nothing I could do would make my skin go darker, it just won't do that..and I learnt to love 'pale'.

I am what I am.

My brother's name for me is 'brat'

Hey ho... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:23 AM

Disability isn't the relevant issue there Keith. Prejudice takes many forms. It's a very fair comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:24 AM

Oh..and his favourite joke used to be:

"Why is my sister like a washing machine? - Because she's a twin tub!"

Don't you just love brothers! :0)


Oh, and Rosie, if you see or hear someone saying something like that, you 'punch their lights out' (verbally, of course) :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 10:52 AM

"Racism and what happened in that video are two entirely different things."

You're wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 11:01 AM

Here in The UK, up until last year, we had a Disability Rights Commission. I took issue with them in my professional life and referred to them in the papers as being a committee of professional wheelchairs.

I got into a lot of trouble for that. But it was fighting unrealistic expectation.

Now... if I had applied that to a race rather than disability environment...

a) I would not have been as quick to criticise

b) Amazing how those who seem most offended are not those being criticised.

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, banter amongst friends! I am fat and bald and am continuously being reminded. I play instruments well enough but my voice is as flat as a fart, (normally reminded as I am about to launch into a song...)

I get on with life.

About time the UK media did too...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 11:15 AM

Is it OK to call your dog "Nigger" if he's black then?

Plenty of people used to, so I presume it still must be OK if we're all to call Asians Paki's'? After all, they did it in all innocence before racism was bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 11:17 AM

Those of you who are relating this to what you consider silly nicknames, etc. in your own lives, don't get it. Regardless of whether Harry and friends are used to using such "banter" he IS a public figure and held to higher standards of conduct, or should be, for the example he sets. Also, the things you have all cited, could be changed. A person's skin colour cannot be changed and what one is called applies to the whole community of whichever minority is being denigrated. The Baldy Bastard scenario was a good explanation of this. Institutionalised, low-level racism is alive and well and there are those of us who will speak out no matter the times you may castigate us for being too PC (that's another term which has been co-opted by the Far Right and made to sound dirty. Fuck them! Like Rick Fielding said, there is such a thing as "Ethically Conscious" and it harms none to be so.)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 02:15 PM

Well said, Kat.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 02:28 PM

I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 03:38 PM

"After all, they did it in all innocence before racism was bad.

When was racism anything other than vile? Even when too many people didn't recognise that it was vile. Especially when too many people didn't recognise that it was vile.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 05:48 PM

From kat:

"Those of you who are relating this to what you consider silly nicknames, etc. in your own lives, don't get it. Regardless of whether Harry and friends are used to using such "banter" he IS a public figure and held to higher standards of conduct, or should be, for the example he sets. Also, the things you have all cited, could be changed. A person's skin colour cannot be changed and what one is called applies to the whole community of whichever minority is being denigrated."


No-one's disputing that racism isn't vile, kat. It is.

Many people are simply saying that Harry is not a racist.

There's a big difference.   

This was a private time between friends, in an airport, with a somewhat daft Prince of the Realm shooting an even dafter video. He wasn't going up to strangers in the airport and yelling racist abuse at them. It happened 3 years ago, and his friend sought no legal action against Harry, probably because he wasn't bothered and who knows, maybe he calls Harry by his own choice of nickname.

I'm sure Harry gets more than his fair share of 'names' for being a Prince and I'm also sure that he comes in for a fair amount of unfair hostility from some in the army, simply because he was born into the Royal Family, not something he ever asked to happen.

Racism is vile. Absolutely.

Name calling is vile. Yes, if done with the intent to deliberately cause upset and harm.

Belittling is also vile, yet there are those on this thread who choose very often to belittle, yet think nothing of it whatsoever, feeling it is 'their right' to do so. It ain't. To me, it harbours the same kind of malicious intent that racism does, and that is to hurt. It matters not whether the hurt is aimed at an individual, or an entire race. Deliberately choosing to try and hurt others is wrong.

Harry has many enemies, as do the rest of his family. It was an enemy who sold this to the pathetic, greedy paper concerned. Don't get me wrong, the Royals leave me cold, other than The Duchess of Kent, who's spent so much of her life helping others, but to stir something that didn't need stirring, simply to bash the Royals, Harry in particular, and to make loadsa money, is pretty shameful. But The News of the World doesn't feel shame.

Tell me, if it had been a regular soldier, would the newspaper concerned have made the same fuss? Would they have put a regular soldier on the front page, paid a fortune for the video, splashed it across their pages?

No.

And you know why? Because they're really not *that* interested in racism.

However, they're damned interested in kicking Harry and his family and they're even more interested in making money.

And **THAT** (for me) is the real story behind this story.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:23 PM

Well said Lizze, too many here finding a way out for young Hewitt. What kind of example is he setting ? he is a role model to many kids and I imagine a lot of kids in the playground received new nicknames in the past week.

So if I went to college with the new president and knew him a little I could come on here and call him what I want ? well it's only friendship isn't it ?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:33 PM

You wouldn't call him a 'Merkin' would you? I've heard that a few times around here, and I think it's more offensive than 'Paki'. Maybe 'Merican' would be on the same level.

Of course, that's just my point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 06:34 PM

well if he's not a racist, he wants putting right in no uncertain terms.

Don't do it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 07:31 PM

"This was a private time between friends, in an airport,"

So as long as you only use racist slurs when black people can't hear you, it's okay. Now I understand how racism works.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 07:32 PM

The Prince charles sooty thing is a weak attempt at a stunt to deflect attention from Harry and put it on him and illustrate a point that Harry didn't mean any harm.

The family of the Soldier that Harry called a Paki were upset about it.

Not because they are politicians but because they found it hurtful.

Anyone give a shit?

Twats. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jan 09 - 07:49 PM

It doesn't matter if it was just between so-called friends. ANYTHING Harry does has the potential to become public. And, as it happens, the minority may have just been going along to get along, as the schoolgirl who was noted earlier in this thread:

The uncle of Captain Ahmed Raza Khan told the BBC his nephew had never told the family Prince Harry was a 'good friend'.

A video has been published of Prince Harry using racist language to describe a member of his platoon.

The 2006 film was made public by the News of the World and shows the prince calling one of his then Sandhurst colleagues a "Paki".

Iftakhar Raja, who identified the man as his nephew Captain Ahmed Raza Khan, told the BBC he was 'deeply offended' by the remark.

Yes, I understand about the media and, I personally, like the Royals, though I don't know if I would if I were living over there, but they still will be held to higher standards and the young man needs to understand that. He CAN do better than his father and grandfather, I am sure, if he is educated. It's ironic since so many times minorities are told by their parents, peers, etc. to be on their best behaviour because they are representing all of their community and how they are all perceived. Unfair, yes, but it has been so.

My earlier remarks were more beyond the Harry thing, anyway, addressing some of the remarks made here about PC and racism, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 04:32 AM

An essential part of the process of getting six million Jews into the ovens of Auschwitz was to dehumanise them by labelling them 'Yids' - that's how racism works at its most efficient.
If 'Paki', 'Towelhead' and 'Sooty' are acceptible, how does 'over-privileged inbred' sound?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 04:46 AM

"I'm sure Harry gets more than his fair share of 'names' for being a Prince and I'm also sure that he comes in for a fair amount of unfair hostility from some in the army, simply because he was born into the Royal Family, not something he ever asked to happen"

My heart bleeds for him - life sure is tough. It must be difficult for him dealing with the injustice of being born into wealth and privilege.

I'm constantly amazed by the leeway shown to the Royal Family - they can even insult a sizeable proportion of their own citizens (who are paying to keep the buggers rich) and still ordinary people leap to their defence.

"maybe he calls Harry by his own choice of nickname."

Let's get this straight - he wasn't using a nickname, he described the soldier as "Ah, our little Paki friend, Ahmed.". This isn't his nickname, it's a description, a name he's using to describe the racial origins of the person in question.

In this case, we're supposed to let racism slide because poor old Harry can't shake his imperialist attitude to those poor old colonials - at least 'Sooty' knows his place and damn well stays there, Ahmed's family have had the audacity to suggest they were offended, never mind all the asians that his comment might

As I've said before, if that had been said in an ordinary office he would have been sacked, and quite rightly.

Bollocks to him and his ilk.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 06:40 AM

"This was a private time between friends, in an airport,"

So as long as you only use racist slurs when black people can't hear you, it's okay. Now I understand how racism works.


It'll be interesting to see whether Harry's friend decides to take him to court over this, if he's so upset. Interestingly, Harry's mate hasn't been interviewed over this, not a word has been heard, as far as I know. Now, I'd have thought, had he been torn apart by it all, that he'd have jumped at the opportunity to make a small fortune from interviews. Nobody knows the exacts in's and out's of all this, apart from Harry and his mates.   

It is SO easy to call someone a racist. It's the new horror, isn't it. The new way to make people hate others. Hell, I've had it thrown at me many a time in here and elsewhere, by two posters. The thing I find so interesting in here though, is that one of the posters who's up in arms about what Harry said, (when it was apparently said with no malice) has used deeply malicious words to try and hurt and wound others in here, knowing full well that those words cause offence.

I don't understand the logic there. Why is their behaviour acceptable to themselves, yet Harry's is not.

It was only recently, in the English Culture thread, that I learnt from the other poster, that Sid James was Jewish and South African, and therefore apparently not allowed, from their point of view, to be part of English culture. I found this shocking and far more racist that anything Harry came out with, which again, was a term used amongst friends, in a private video, where the chap he acknowledged was a friend.

One rule for Harry.

One rule for everyone else, so it would seem.

Jack, I didn't notice you in that thread, taking that poster to task over it. Interesting. And I'd not swap places with Harry, not for one single moment, despite all the wealth and 'privilege' he has. I bet though that he'd love to swap places with me, or you, where he could simply be an ordinary person who wouldn't have been hanged drawn and quartered for saying what he did, because no-one would ever have come to hear it in the first place, or been interested.


And yes, he's a public figure, poor lad, and for that, every single time he opens his mouth, for the rest of his life, some b*stard will be there, waiting to sell their story to the newspaper about 'what Harry said and what Harry *REALLY* meant'" and how he's such a nasty, vicious little Royal oik, who should be banished from the whole of humanity...etc..etc..etc..Imagine how that must feel, no freedom whatsoever for the rest of your life, even if you give up being a prince, you'll still sell papers and that's what this is about, imo.

As I said above, had this whole incident been filmed by an ordinary soldier, no-one, but NO-ONE would have batted an eyelid or paid a small fortune for the video, or put it on their front pages. Why? Because when faced with the idea, their Editor would have said "But, there's NO story here, what the foooook are you wasting my time for?"

It's all just such crap.

Never mind though, it gives the hypocritical 'holier than thou' folks a chance to come out and say their bit, before they go back to their hypocritical spewing out of deeply unpleasant and personal comments on here, without a thought about how it affects others, whilst criticising what they perceive to be the very same thing in Harry.


kat, I come from a time before PC. I was brought up to think about others. I was brought up to be polite and respectful. I was also brought up in a time when people were able (and allowed) to laugh at themselves far more and laugh with each other. People were more trusting and saw the good in each other, rather than always looking for the bad, always feeling, as so often happens nowadays, that there is 'some ulterior motive or meaning' in what someone says or does.

Yes, PC makes people think, but it also, imo, has made many people paranoid and deeply suspicious.

We've turned into a society now fearful of saying many things, because almost every word can carry a hidden 'meaning' or 'danger' if someone is determined enough to twist or spin it to their own ends. Our 'thoughts' are no longer are own, because the moment you've said something, you are tried, found guilty and sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered by the PC brigade or the press who apparently know far better than you what your *actual* intention and meaning was.

It's scary.

I think PC has gone a long way to destroying society, rather than making it better.

Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with malicious and deeply racist comments and practices being stopped. Of course I do. But when things such as this are taken by a greedy paper, blown up out of all proportion, and used for no other reason tha, imo, to make themselves loadsa money and kick one individual they detest, because they loathe his family and what they stand for. then hell, it makes me mad.

I tell you what 'Guest Alan'...if you believe in the News of the World so much, why not ring them up and suggest ALL the extra money they've made from their story on Harry, should be used to create a 'Let's End Racist Words FOREVER' campaign....and see what they say. I don't think you'll get far, because, as I said, imo, this is NOT about racism in the slightest, from their point of view, but about the News of the World making money and kicking the Royal family. Please let me know if they DO take it up though, as I'd sure love to hear that I'm wrong.

Jim, I hear what you say, and agree in the 'wider world' but in this case, I don't think that was 'the case' at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 06:58 AM

Personally I get as tired of the phrase PC (political correctness - opposite = political incorrectness), the opposite as I do with do-gooders opposite do-badders.
What I do find extremely depressing is that we need legislation to protect us from those who wish to pollute the world with terms like wog, nig-nog, coon, yid, sheeny, kike, greasball, papist, left-footer, Polak etc (not forgtting Paki, Towelhead and Sooty).
Have we learned sod-all from the Holocaust?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 07:22 AM

everyone goes round calling him 'Your Majesty'

course he thinks he's better than everyone else. It would seem a pretty fair conclusion. amongst human creatures i am one majestic specimen.

a lot of people on this thread seem to think he's got a right to say stuff that most people would get the sack for.

in fact go on Prince harry - abuse me please - it would really nice of you to call me something derogatory. It would really make this peasant's day, if you were to call me a piece of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 08:01 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/theroyalfamily/4276705/Soldier-called-Paki-by-Prince-Harry-insists-there-are-no-hard-

THE END

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 08:14 AM

I'll try again:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5535423.ece

THE END

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 08:37 AM

"everyone goes round calling him 'Your Majesty'"

That's not his fault. He may well hate it, cringe every time he hears it, we don't know.

"course he thinks he's better than everyone else. It would seem a pretty fair conclusion. amongst human creatures i am one majestic specimen."

Nope, that's your supposition, not fact. His mother went out of her way to get her sons to see the other side of life, taking them to visit the homeless, the AIDS patients, those far less fortunate than themselves, to try and get them to understand how privileged they were, and still are.

Harry and William do good things too, wld, but of course, those are hardly ever reported on.

"a lot of people on this thread seem to think he's got a right to say stuff that most people would get the sack for."

Then sack the whole damn army in every country in the world, because I bet they all say things about each other, black, white, yellow, red, brown or green, no matter where they come from, what side they're on. I bet they all have nicknames for each other too. Some will use those terms maliciously against 'their enemies', some won't.
Some will use nicknames for their mates that we 'out here' may consider odd, but we're not them, so how can we judge?

Again, unless you *know* the person concerned, were there at the time and know the feelings of all concerned, then you cannot judge this incident fairly.

"in fact go on Prince harry - abuse me please - it would really nice of you to call me something derogatory. It would really make this peasant's day, if you were to call me a piece of shit."

But he wouldn't, would he. And you know he wouldn't, Al.

All he's done is be a bloke in the army, same as any bloke in any army, in any country. He's been boiled in oil for it though because he's *Prince Harry* and there are those who hate the Royal family deeply and see this as another opportunity to get them out, or at least to throw all they can at them.

I see many posts in here filled with the same kind of hatred for people they've never met, the same kind of judgement poured upon complete strangers, which racists use against a whole ethnic group/family.

Perhaps the term 'Royalist' should have a new meaning, akin to 'Racist'?


And have we learnt anything from the Holocaust, Jim. Not a great deal, no. We still have armies, filled with youngsters trained to kill 'the enemy'. Do they call the 'enemy' nice names and therefore 'humanise' them? I guess not, otherwise they'd not be able to go out and kill them would they.

If you want to blame anyone, then maybe it's the fault of the army themselves, because they train people to kill other people. Get rid of that instinct, that training, and you're nearly there...

...until of course, you get invaded by another army who will kill you at the touch of a button.

How do we end it all? There is only ONE way to end Hate, and that is with Love.

Create armies of Peace. Create armies of Love....THEN go to war against Hate and you may finally have a battle worth fighting.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 08:41 AM

Taken from the link given by Teribus, above:

January 17, 2009
Army captain comes to Prince Harry's defence over 'Paki' remarkKevin Dowling
The Pakistani army captain who was called a 'Paki' by Prince Harry has said the prince is not a racist.

Speaking about the incident for the first time, Ahmed Raza Khan said the prince was his friend and that he had no bad feelings against him.

The Sun newspaper said Khan told Harry to "forget about it" when the Prince phoned to apologise.

Harry was caught on film three years ago referring to Khan as "our little Paki friend".

Related Links
Muslim leader condemns Prince Harry for 'paki' remark
Prince Harry apologises 'Paki' remark
Harry in hot water over 'Paki' remark
Multimedia
VIDEO: what Prince Harry said
POLL: what now for his military career?
Khan said: "The Prince called me by a nickname which is usually very insulting but I know he didn't mean it that way. We were close friends when we were training and I know he is not a racist."

The two soldiers were said to have exchanged stories with each other about fighting the Taleban when Harry rang Khan to apologise.

The Ministry of Defence said the Chief of the General Staff had directed the Royal Military Police to investigate how the material entered the public domain.

A spokeswoman said: "If that investigation reveals any other breach, that will be investigated."

She added that the Adjutant General was writing to the army to remind them of their policy on equality and diversity.

Palace officials have said the 24-year-old Prince was "extremely sorry" for the comment and stressed that Harry had been speaking to a friend without malice.......

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 08:42 AM

This seems a little more serious but has received less press coverage.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 08:53 AM

Ah yes, but *that's* about an appalling racist attack, eanjay, and not about Prince Harry, therein lies the difference.

Yup, a great deal of anti-English feeling in some parts of Scotland, Wales too, once you get up to North Wales...I know, I've been there, bought the Welsh English Dictionary to read the graffiti all over the bridges..

Yikes! If we had that written on our bridges, there'd be an outcry. Funny ol' world ain't it.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, as Teribus said when he posted the remarks of Harry's friend who said he'd taken no offence and knows Harry is NOT a racist:

The End.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 09:59 AM

There is *nothing* more *to* say.

The News of the World tried it's best to make something that had no malice in it at all, as deeply malicious as it could. They have failed. miserably.

You have tried to do the same thing 'alan' and you too have also failed, miserably.

I guess we won't hear from you until the next 'Harry Story' is dragged up, by a twisting, spinning, vindictive set of journalists who'll stop at nothing to get this young lad dragged down as far as they can get him.

Now be a good lad yourself and take your hatred somewhere else.

Harry and Ahmed are good pals, always have been, probably always will be, and I've no doubt that each would give his life for the other, in the call of duty.

Get over it.

Thank you so much

The End. (again)

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 11:14 AM

Thanks Lizzie, pity you deleted your bebo account ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 11:52 AM

Oh I like Harry loads, he's just a good old 'Inbreed Nazi Whoreson!'*

*Whoreson means by-blow, or bastard btw. Though technically he can't really be termed a by-blow AND an inbreed. I wonder how his good mates manage to make up friendly nick-names outa that funny muddle!

The little Nazi Bastard!! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 11:55 AM

Oops!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 12:10 PM

Geez, that's a nasty page.

I guess some folk get their kicks out of it though.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:01 PM

Does no-one make a connection between this prat using openly racist language and wearing the Nazi uniform - after all, support for facists is a family tradition for the royals?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:10 PM

Nope. When he (stupidly) wore that uniform, egged on by his older brother, William, he was very young and a bit daft, despite an Eton education. William apologised humbly for being so stupid and thoughtless, as did Harry.

Loads of young lads do very stupid things when they're that age, Jim, things they'll cringe over when they're older. I've no doubt he wore it with the intention of taking the mickey out of the SS, when he got to the party, not going around making racist comments, but then...that would be looking at things from a different angle again.

The Sins of the fathers, (or the Duke of Windsor as then was) should not be visited upon the children. Heck, Chamberlain back then thought that Hitler was a very nice chappie...??!!!??

The whole argument here has been brought to a halt because, no matter how many people choose to decide in their own minds that Harry is a racist, the very person who knows him well and was the object of what Harry said, without malice, has stood up, said he's Harry's friend and that he was just fine about his nickname and that Harry is NOT a racist.

The End. (Again Again)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:12 PM

Despite my irreverent manner Jim C. Indeed I do. Hence the (I trust) pertinant reminder of this incident. As others here have said however, I believe rascism (and indeed fascism?), may be written through the Royal Family line, like Brighton Rock.
Very bad show...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:21 PM

As I said before, I wasn't addressing the Harry thing as much as the negative stuff I've read in this thread against those of us who do choose to speak up/out and what goes on in society in general. You can't just cry "too much PC" and ignore institutional racism and I don't mean just when a public figure may have said something. I mean amongst general society, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 01:51 PM

do you know the guy lizzie, you seem to have a warm regard for the little fellow.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 02:19 PM

No, I don't know him, Al, but...neither do you.

I give people the benefit of the doubt though, and refuse to judge them on what a sleazy news rag has written about them in the hope to stir up a hornet's nest of hatred against him and his family. As I said, they've failed, miserably and have been shown up for the complete sleazy types they are.

I've met quite a few of the 'aristocracy' if you want to call them that, when I worked in Harley St. Some were 'orrible little snobs, who got short shrift from me, but some were the most charming and humble people. I also met 'the peasants' as you'd call them, and again, some were people I'd not want to give house room to, and some were the most lovely of folk.

Prince or Pauper, it matters not. What matters is the person inside.

Harry's 'inside' is still forming. He's still a young man, and still learning. He's had a bad start in life, despite being a Prince, and I've no doubt at all that he'd give up every single penny he has, every jewel, every posh suit, every polo pony, every dolly bird, if he could have his mother back.

He and William have not only had to live with losing their mother in such distressing circumstances, but they've had to live with the constant nastiness of the press, bringing her out every year, slagging her off, trashing her, telling terrible lies, sensationalising eveything, just to sell their rotten papers...They've had to endure people writing books about her, making money out of her in every way.

They've had enough.

For God's sake, can't they be left alone, to live their lives now?

Even if they retired from being 'royal' they'd NEVER be left alone, because they're Diana's sons, and will be hounded by the very b*stards who hounded their mother, until the day the both die.

Geez! They almost had Dodi Al-Fayed as a stepfather, and were seen spending happy days with he and Diana shortly before they both died...Racist? Oh come ON!

Titles don't impress me one bit, people impress me...and to be honest, if I were Harry, and I'd had to endure the shite that had been written about a mother I loved, I'd probably have gone completely off the rails and told the whole world to foooook OFF by now..and I think most of us would.

He's a human being, same as you or me..and he feels things the same as you or I, I'd imagine. The fact he's a prince is NOT his fault. And to judge him for that alone is wrong. He's no different from many other kids these days, who are a bit slow on understanding what is and is not acceptable in life, because there's a huge 'in yer face' attitude these days, that cuts right through every level of rich or poor. An Eton education is little different from anywhere else these days, because kids want to party, party, party, and not learn, learn, learn. The intense pressure poured down on young people to live their lives in a certain way to achieve, achieve, achieve by the time they're 17 touches them all, be they from the local comp, or the local Eton. Kids have a whole lifetime to achieve...we all take time to become who we are meant to be. Once we were all given time, now 'time' is marked on a form and ticked in a box, year by year by year.

I've no doubt, that if Harry were defending you in a warzone, then he'd put his life at risk to save you, or anyone else, without a second thought, along with all his mates, who'd give their lives for each other and for us.

Surely it's time to leave him alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 03:07 PM

"Surely it's time to leave him alone"
Gladly - preferably somewhere in the middle of the Gobi Desert.
This nasty little prick has proved beyond a doubt he is a racist.
No, we don't 'go to war' Lizzie, we are sent to war by people just like this nasty little prick and his family, usually against third world countries of 'Towelheads, 'Sootys' and 'Pakies' - not forgetting Phil the Greek's 'Fuzzie-Wuzzies'.
Personally I have no great objection to his donning a Nazi uniform; it allows us us see it like it really is.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 03:26 PM

"This nasty little prick has proved beyond a doubt he is a racist."

Well, Jim, I guess you know Harry far better than his friend, Ahmed, who has stood up for him.

I find this most odd, as you've never met him, but, hey ho.

I also find it odd that you feel you can call him that, yet if were on a video, calling someone exactly those same words, you'd castigate him for it.

Double standards, methinks, Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 03:29 PM

"..yet if *he* were on a video"

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 03:45 PM

I don't know Harry so I can't say if he is racist or not. Certainly there is nothing in that video to indicate to me that he is racist. Clearly it wasn't a sensible thing to say but he has apologised and that should be the end of the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 04:37 PM

well we'll see.

A spirited defence of of harry, Lizzie - and I hope he deserves it.

I will say this though - you learn a lot of 'bad shit' at public school. Ingrained racism and class hatred without even knowing that its happening to you (see my post 12 Jan 09 - 01:54 PM ).

You're right Lizzie - I don't know harry, but I know how that form of education works on the soul. After which, he's not gone to university - but to one of the recognised havens of racism and that kind of nastiness in our society.

People do come out of it with all the decency and warmth of james Blunt

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 04:38 PM

- but not too often, one fancies.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 05:05 PM

"calling someone exactly those same words, you'd castigate him for it.
Double standards, methinks, Jim.
Nope, just taking a lead from my betters (to make my point).
"I find this most odd, as you've never met him, but, hey ho."
Never met Hitler, but I believe he was a nasty little prick as well.
The double standards come from people who believe racist language to be acceptable as long as it's used by our 'betters'
Roll o the republic
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 05:26 PM

"No, we don't 'go to war' Lizzie, we are sent to war by people just like this nasty little prick and his family" - Jim Carroll

Now over the years I've come across some pretty bloody stupid ill-informed crap written by supposedly intelligent people on this Forum - But that Jim-lad - Takes the f**kin' biscuit!! There is not one whit of it true, nor could it have been true for rather a large number of years now - In fact Jim, not since 1688.

Don't believe me Jim - direct from the "horses mouth as it were":

From - HOUSE OF LORDS
Select Committee on the Constitution

15th Report of Session 2005 - 2006

"Waging war: Parliament's role and responsibility"

Volume 1 - REPORT

Chapter 1 Introduction and Background

INTRODUCTION
1. Under the Royal prerogative powers, the Government can declare war and deploy armed forces to conflicts abroad without the backing or consent of Parliament.

BACKGROUND
The origins and nature of the prerogative
4. The Royal prerogative derives from the constitutional settlement enshrined in the Bill of Rights 1688, which in effect transferred to Ministers certain rights which were previously the exclusive preserve of the Monarch.

So from that Jim - Neither Harry's Granny or any of her predecessors going all the way back to William of Orange could send any of their subjects off to war as you contend.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Jan 09 - 06:14 PM

I kinda glossed over that one, Teribus, 'cos I thought he was just trying to wind me up. ;0) Thanks for that info, though.


Al, public schools. Nope, you're not getting off lightly on that one either.. :0)

Yes, they can produce some 'orrible little oiks.

So can comprehensives. So can colleges. So can universities.

HOWEVER, public schools can also produce folk like Tom Bliss, a bloomin' decent man, if ever there was one.

All other forms of schools can do the same. Well, not produce a Tom Bliss, as he's a one-off of course, but...you know what I mean. :0)

It's not the schools, but the souls who are in them which count.

The hope is that 'the system', in all types of school, doesn't crush those souls, but hey, don't get me started on education again. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:30 AM

Lizzie,
As I remember it, historically, one of the reasons for going to war has always been "for Queen and Country" - that was very much part of my education anyway.
Anyway, as much as you might bluff and bluster, the main points are these. Here we have a family with a history of racist abuse and support for racist regimes. The latest examples are:
"Paki" - as in "Paki-bashing"
"Towel-"head" - as in "Let's go and kick the shit out of some Third-World country". (both of these from somebody who dresses up in a Nazi uniform)
"Fuzzy-Wuzzie" - see above.
"Sooty" - as in some poor creature destined to wander through life with somebody's hand up their arse!
All this from the wealthiest family in the land - thanks to their ability to live off the State.

Question - is such racism (please tell me these terms aren't racist) acceptable from State employees and would it be accepted were it to come from, say, a politician?

Question - would you like a family like this to move into your neighbourhood?

Question - how would you feel if one of them wanted to marry your sister?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:51 AM

"As I remember it, historically, one of the reasons for going to war has always been "for Queen and Country" - that was very much part of my education anyway." - Jim Carroll

Well in that case Jim, your education was sadly lacking.

I had a good laugh at - one of the reasons for going to war has always been "for Queen and Country". Now the context in which I've always heard the phrase for Queen/King and Country was the reason given for serving in the armed forces. Oddly enough I have never heard of it being given as a reason for going to war, perhaps you can furnish us with some examples Jim.

Needless to say if your arguement and point of view are based on biased, ill-informed, erroneous crap then it will not stand up to any rational examination.

As for the rest of your post - you're scrambling and grasping at straws. If you find yourself in a hole Rule 1 is always - stop digging.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 04:00 AM

PS - Jim

I believe you wrote this:

"All this from the wealthiest family in the land - thanks to their ability to live off the State."

You also need to check your facts on that as well.

1. The Royal family contribute to the exchequor at least three times what they receive from the "civil purse".

2. The Royal family are most certainly not the "wealthiest family in the land".

3. If you got rid of the Royal family tomorrow they would give themselves a 300% pay rise, the Government's coffers would only receive tax on net profit and would still have to pay for whoever it was became the new Kool-Britannia Head of State and their staff.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:02 AM

Jim, it's very hard to have a reasonable conversation with someone who seems to equate Prince Harry with Hitler. Yikes! I mean, come on...let's get real here.

Harry's friend, Ahmed, has already stood up and said that he doesn't mind his nickname, nor does he mind Harry using it, and that his friend, the very same person you equate with Hitler, is NOT a racist.

Absolute end of story.

Unless you are someone who unequivocally hates an entire family in the same way that others hate an entire race..in which case, they'll simply keep spitting out the vitriol, same as any racist would, trying to turn all and sundry against those who are their prey.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:08 AM

>>Question - how would you feel if one of them wanted to marry your sister?
Jim Carroll <<

As long as it wasn't Prince Philip, I would be OK with that.
Wish I had a sister

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 07:09 AM

""Personally I get as tired of the phrase PC (political correctness - opposite = political incorrectness), the opposite as I do with do-gooders opposite do-badders.
What I do find extremely depressing is that we need legislation to protect us from those who wish to pollute the world with terms like wog, nig-nog, coon, yid,""


And who protects us from those who use phrases like "overprivileged inbred buggers"? Nobody at all!

""everyone goes round calling him 'Your Majesty'""

NOT so WLD! Only the monarch is called "Majesty". Harry is a SIMPLE HRH, who is more likely to have been called "Ginger", or "Ginge", by his army colleagues, something which some people would find offensive.

Just a small moral comment.

I have been waiting for someone on this forum to point out that whoever passed the tape to N.o.t.W. was guilty of the CRIMINAL offence of theft, and that nasty rag was guilty of handling stolen property.

But that's alright, as long as it affords an opportunity for some here to vent their spleen on a young man who has done nothing more than be born into the royal family. The only person here with an ounce of impartiality on this subject appears to be Lizzie C.

I hate racism as much as anyone, but what is happening here is little, if any, better.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 07:44 AM

From Guest Alan:

"Thanks Lizzie, pity you deleted your bebo account ;)"

Now that's an interesting phrase, because the only reason I opened a bebo account, and very recently too, was to slam into two guys who were BNP supporters, who were saying some really degrading things about Mudcat and the people on here, particularly the women. One of them had a page called 'Mudcat Cafe' as I recall.

I've just re-registered to take another look and it seems you've closed your page to viewings.

Well, well, well.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 10:45 AM

"3. If you got rid of the Royal family tomorrow they would give themselves a 300% pay rise, the Government's coffers would only receive tax on net profit and would still have to pay for whoever it was became the new Kool-Britannia Head of State and their staff."

So? There's more than money at stake here. I wouldn't swear allegiance to these nutsacks as our newly-accepted fellow citizens have to. My family have lived enough years under the Norman Yoke as is (well, those from these Islands anyway).

At least the tax payer won't be contributing the their upkeep and they will be looking after themselves like the rest of us has to, then Harry can dress up as a Nazi and call his mates whatever racist names he wants - he'll be like a large proportion of his countrymen.

"I hate racism as much as anyone, but what is happening here is little, if any, better."

I reserve the right to satirise, criticise and downright insult the anachronism that is the Royal Family whom I pay part of my income to, and I will gladly desist when they stop taking my tax money and withdraw from public life. Nothing personal to them as individuals, but the idea ordinary people should be funding the very rich simply because of some misplaced, outdated loyalty to a corrupt monarchy which couldn't give a shit about many of their subjects, have no concept of the problems of ordinary people, and share little if any sense of solidarity with their 'subjects'.

There are people in the wider community with little or nothing who give their lives to helping others without thought for themselves, and these people are the ones we should be rewarding, not the head of a feudal system whose ancestors and representatives have been responsible for years of oppression, subjugation and the systematic fleecing of the working people in this and many other countries.

That Harry seems to forget this is testament to the fact he lives a life a privilege far removed from the trials and tribulations that will beset many of his age throughout their entire lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:08 PM

More than money involved - the charge levelled against them was that they (The Royal family) lives off the state.

The deal is the Exchequor gets the revenue from the Royal Estate last figures over £190 million and in exchange awards the "Civil Purse" about £60 million - You tell me SFB who's coming out ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:17 PM

Much of what I wanted to say has been said far more eloquently by Sugarfoot Jack - busy now, but for the time being - this is not about the hatred of a family, it's about a public figure drawing from the public purse who indulges in racist abuse and behaviour. That his victim didn't take offence (complaining about a member of the Royal family would have helped his army career no end, I'm sure) is beside the point, HRH's (and other family members') racist behaviour has given offence to other Asians, and , no doubt, a shot in the arm to fellow racists.
No, I don't know if The Royals are racist, I do know that their behaviour suggests that they are, and it's my experience that if it quacks and waddles it's probably a duck.
My experience also tells me that you don't have to scratch an apologist for racism too deeply to find a real racist.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:38 PM

"My experience also tells me that you don't have to scratch an apologist for racism too deeply to find a real racist."



So, what you mean then, Jim, is if anyone disagrees with you, then they are a racist?

Hmmm.....now that's a new twist.


Ahmed's a Captain already, Jim! Gone are the days when people were hushed up for fear of losing their jobs! Hells bells, there's a whole media army out there waiting for him to tell it the way they want to hear it.

The trouble is, Ahmed is happy being Harry's friend and isn't scared to say so.

I'm sorry you've not got the ending you wanted to this story, and I realise that you'll go on twisting and spining it for a while to come yet, but truly, it's just best to accept what Ahmed said, and that is that Harry is NOT a racist.

Gawd, who'd want to a member of the Royal family, eh, with some of the posters in here waiting outside your gate.

Scary. :0)

Ooh, look! Prince Harry, who some in here feel is a racist!


Get over it, guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 03:52 PM

And here's some more...


Some in here will love the comments on some of these videos, because they're as vitriolic as some of the posts in here.

And *that* is what the power of the press can do. They can either turn you into a hero or a villain. Prince Harry made a stupid mistake going to a fancy dress party and for that they'll make sure they torture him for the rest of his days, as will some in here.

Leave the lad alone and go pick on someone your own size, preferably some that you actually KNOW!



And if you wonder why I get so *incensed* at those who throw the word 'racist' around like water, it's because I've had it thrown at me, so I know what it feels like. More than though, I also know what a small group of people, 'on a mission' can do to twist the minds of others against you. So I'll fight for Harry, and I'll fight for *anyone* else who people don't know personally, but who they throw mud at as if it's their right!

The comments in here, at times, have me rage!   A young lad's life is what we're talking about here, not some cartoon character, but a young lad who has already lost his mother.

How many of you walked behind your mother's coffin when you were just 12 years old, in full view of the public, not even being allowed to show emotion?????

How many of you have to live with your mother being dragged through dirt, year after year, and yet you have no right of reply!

Well, I too had my voice taken away by those who twisted and span in their own campaign, so again, I know a little of how it feels to have people tell total lies about, watch the words go out into the public domain and know there is NOTHING you can do about it, and I tell you this Jim, it stinks! It absolutely, 100% stinks.

So I have NO respect for people who leave deeply personal and foul comments about others on messageboards, thinking they're the bees knees. ONE person stood beside me and changed many minds back to the truth about me, and for that I will always be grateful, without that person I'd not be on this board either.....

Sometimes, people need others to fight for them, because they are unable to fight for themselves. Prince Harry may be part of the Royal Family, but he has no voice, he cannot lose it as you people can, nor say what he truly feels, EVER, because, as I said before, some little shite will be waiting to make his/her own fortune from that story too.

Now why not leave the lad alone and stop showing yourselves up! And apologies for any mistakes, but I'm so angry that I'm just going to post this!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 04:38 PM

Alan, you are an anti ginger bigot!

To be prejudiced against a person because of their colouring is as offensive as racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jan 09 - 05:24 PM

I now get the distinct impression that Mr. Carroll is just lashing out blindly. Jim lad you really should do a little bit of research before planting your foot firmly in your mouth:

"(complaining about a member of the Royal family would have helped his army career no end, I'm sure)" - Yours I believe.

I do take it that you are blissfully unaware that HRH's supposed "victim" according to you is aserving officer in the armed forces of Pakistan. Now you tell me Jim, how does the Royal family influence the career of an officer in the Army of Pakistan???

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 04:38 AM

"So, what you mean then, Jim, is if anyone disagrees with you, then they are a racist?"
No - they are when they excuse or indulge in racism - like calling people Pakie or Towelhead, or putting on Nazi uniforms, or claiming such behaviour to be acceptable.
"Now you tell me Jim, how does the Royal family influence the career of an officer in the Army of Pakistan??? "
No, I am not unaware of who or what he is. Do you really think it would not affect a serving soldier's career to complain about the yobbish behaviour of a member of the British Royal Family?
As I said - the real issues in question are
Are 'Pakie, Towelhead, Sooty and Fuzzy-Wuzzie terms of racist abuse?
Were they used by Edward and other members of the family?
Is the wearing of a Nazi uniform, as a joke, or for any reason deeply offensive
Is this acceptable behaviour for members of the royal family, public figures - or anybody?
Please remove your noses from the royal fundament and address the questions.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 04:57 AM

"A young lad's life is what we're talking about here, not some cartoon character, but a young lad who has already lost his mother."

Which is a tragedy in itself, and what those boys have had to go through has been appalling and in many cases it's bang out of order they (or anyone else) should be treated like that.

But they're not boys anymore, they're well-educated (better than most), well-advised and intelligent men, and it's not a cartoon strip they're living in it's the real world and the real world is full of people for who the word 'Paki' is a pejorative and a term of abuse. Perhaps in the rarified atmosphere of Eton and Sandhurst the reality of life for those less fortunate than themselves in this country get overlooked and the idea the Royal Family can absolve themselves of responsibility for their faux-pas is nonsense and shouldn't be entertained.

I have no love for the arsewipe rags that pursue the Royal Family or anyone else for that matter, and it's depressing that so many in the country lap up the tabloid press in all it's forms.

But by the same token I don't care for the Royal Family for reasons I've already stated. They can look after themselves as they are filthy rich, and there are people far more deserving of reward for the part they play in community life and easing the suffering of others.

"The deal is the Exchequor gets the revenue from the Royal Estate last figures over £190 million and in exchange awards the "Civil Purse" about £60 million - You tell me SFB who's coming out ahead."

Teribus, I can't find this figure on the net, could you provide a ref please? According to wikipedia the Queen's tax details are voluntary and secret.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:23 AM

I've no idea where that information above comes from, but here in The Independent from last year, it states that the Royal Family and all that goes with it, the palaces, castles, jobs for so many people, etc..cost just 66p a year from each person

I don't think that's bad value, to be honest. Less than a price of a lottery ticket, and think what it encompasses. Jobs for hundreds, probably thousands, within the Royal Palaces, and without. A HUGE amount of revenue brought in through Tourism, heck, how would the tourists feel if Buck House was razed to the ground and replaced with Barrett Homes?

I mean, come on then, tell me what the plans are for this new England, this new Britain, this new United Kingdom, without the Royal Family? Do we get rid of ALL they have been associated with for centuries? Do we burn the palaces, the castles, the treasures, the paintings, the books, the furniture? Do we flatten it all, uproot Kings and Queens from the past, from Westminster Abbey and put them into Pauper's Graves, just to make a point that now WE are in charge?

The Royals have no power any more, they are merely figureheads. The Queen lost much respect over the way she treated Harry and William's mother, and for what she said about the 'annus horriblis' when Windsor Castle burnt down. Since that time, she's learnt that 'her people' aren't taking the freeloaders anymore.

They stated paying tax, and quite right too! They got rid of much of their free travel, the trains, planes etc..cut right back, everything was put under a microscope, the freeloaders amongst the Royals are now either cut out completely or paid an allowance by the Queen herself, and again, quite right too, because whilst she watched Windsor Castle burning down, many 'out here' were being turned out of their homes as they became repossessed. So she should jolly well use her own money at times.

Diane though, was different. You may loathe her as well, and I've no doubt many in here will, becasuse of their sentiments toward her son. But Diana reached out to everyone. She sat on the floor with them, hugged them, cuddled them, held their hands. She didn't care where people came from, if they had contagious diseases, were smelly or sick, if someone needed her, she touched them, held them.

She instilled that into her sons too. Many times they went to visit hostels for the homeless, the AIDS patients, all the time being taught by their mother, that there was another world out there, where people were hurting. And the people LOVED her for what she did. It wasn't just because they were 'brainwashed' by the media, not at all.

They saw, in Harry's mother, someone who was like them. She was battered from her parent's divorce, an unhappy child who grew into an unhappy and needy adult, who needed love desperately and who was able to give it in bucketloads. She got muddled, lost her way, found the man she so loved loved someone else, and the nightmares of her childhood came back, as her own children became those of a divorce too. Divorce deeply upsets children, believe me, I know. Harry and William had all that to contend with too, before their mother died, as well as all that came after, and is STILL coming after!

After she died many, MANY stories came out, along with video evidence, of Diana's private trips, on her own, to visit the 'ordinary' people. People she'd written to again in bucketloads, from Kensington Palace, people she'd come to know....And up she'd turn, unannounced, to have tea with them, in their council semi's....as happy as a lark to be treated as 'one of the family' to be around people who loved her for herself, who sensed that she needed them.

She married into a family where emotion is frowned upon, yet she was a very emotional woman. That's hard to deal with. The Royals were brought up to not show emotion. Diana stopped that. She went into the crowds, not caring about her safety, just wanting to reach out to others. She learnt a great deal from ordinary folk, and they took her to their hearts. She was human, she had weaknesses, she could manipulate the press when she wanted to, but to be honest, I don't blame her for doing that, because Charles's 'camp' also manipulated the press against her. Her life, at times, was desperately miserable and lonely, despite all the riches.

To be a warm person isolated within a cold place, is a hard thing.

She gave her sons a huge amount of love. She didn't want them sent away to boarding school either, and she made damn sure that she saw them as often as she could at weekends. She put 100% into those boys of hers. They'll not let her down. They haven't even begun to live their lives. Harry's still in the army, William's not that long out of University...you'd not be down the throats of your friend's sons in this way, so WHY are you doing this to them?

The use of the word 'Paki' was NOT used in malice. Please read that over and over and understand!!!!! It was a private name that Harry and others used for their mate, and it was used in a PRIAVATE video, which you ONLY got to see because some little shite stole it and sold it for loadsa money! And as I've said, who knows WHAT Harry's nicknames are, but I doubt he minds...

They're BLOKES in the ARMY, and Harry was being no different from the way I'm sure loads of his others mates are with and amongst each other, talking to one another without malice in friendly banter.

What do you want? Do you WANT him to be 'different' to all the other blokes in the army? Do you want him to be 'a Prince' at ALL times?
But, hang on, you don't WANT him to be a Prince, do you? You want that taken away from him.

So, he acts the same as all the others, and then, THEN you call him a little racist b*stard, even though no malice was given or received in a PRIVATE NICKNAME that has NOWT to do with you, or me, or the rest of the world, because it was private and NOT racially spat out!

For Gawd's sake...why don't you all go and start you're own country, with glowing gallows on every corner, to be used for every person who DARES step out of line of YOUR rules and regulations!

Harry's OK. He's still learning, he's still only young, and the fact he's no longer a boy, does not give anyone the right to be a bullying thug towards him, purely because they are so eaten up with hatred and jealousy.

Some of the comments I've seen in here have taken by breath away...and the irony is, of course, that 'Guest Alan' who bears an incredible resemblance to the earlier 'Guest Windsor Knot' let slip about the bebo account I had deleted. That told me that he was one of the two complete REAL racist shites that I went over to wallop on bebo, not only for the horrible things they've got on their pages about Mudcat and its posters, but also they're support of the BNP and their anti-Jewish mates and rantings.

And here are some of YOU agreeing with him!!!

There were only TWO people who knew about that bebo account, and they were the two racists I went over to have a go at...You have one of them in here, and you've all been so busy desperately trying to agree wtih him, and depict Diana's son as a racist, despite Harry's very friends telling you the EXACT opposite, that you've all been too blind to see you've been wound up by a real nasty piece of work!

I'll leave some of you to 'agree' with 'Guest Alan' now, in the knowledge of who you are actually agreeing WITH!

You couldn't make it up, you really couldn't!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:39 AM

" 66p a year from each person "

Which amounts to £40 million year, which they don't need and could be far better spent helping home carers, buying drugs for the NHS or any number of far more worth causes.

"For Gawd's sake...why don't you all go and start you're own country"

Don't need to - this is my country and it's mine as much as anyone else's. My ancestors have had to put up with this ridiculous system through the millennia and it's time we called a halt to it.

Time for a worker's republic! An elected house of Lords! Down with the Royal parasites!

But the gentry must come down, and the poor shall wear the crown.
Stand up now, Diggers all.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:41 AM

Do we flatten it all, uproot Kings and Queens from the past?

Nah! The ones of the present......wouldn't mind flattening and uprooting them!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:55 AM

Can't those who actually WANT a Royal Family pay for them?
They're not exactly the National Health Service after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:41 AM

" 66p a year from each person "

>>Which amounts to £40 million year, which they don't need and could be far better spent helping home carers, buying drugs for the NHS or any number of far more worth causes.<<


Well, have your way then. Just don't forget to explain to the thousands whose very jobs and lives depend on that 66pence, that you've all decided what's best and you know all about every single one of the Royal family, and all of their future offspring, because you're all such experts..and caring, fair minded, kind people.

Cover over the gaping hole in the economy when the tourists go elsewhere and put yer gibbets and gallows up in Old London Town.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:51 AM

Oh, and that 66pence doesn't go into the Queen's handbag, does it?

Every penny has to be accounted for.

Would she pay, out of her own money, to keep all the palaces and castles going, all the history and the pageantry? Of course she wouldn't. I've no doubt she'd be bankrupt in a very short space of time, but...I guess that would make you guys real happy.

And hey, you could all frame your 66 pennies in gold, or wear them as a necklace of triumph.

Go and join The Sealed Knot, then you can chop off Charles I's head over and again, whilst beating up the Royalists. At least you could get your anger out in a different way. ;0)

Oh, and the NHS has had MILLIONS and MILLIONS poured into it, and yet things are still so terribly wrong. That's not lack of money, but money being directed to the wrong places and decisions being made by people who've no idea what they're doing, or how hospitals should be run.   I know, I used to sit and listen to the guys I worked for, tearing themselves apart over how St. Bartholowmew's was being run, by people whose main interest was themselves, and 'making a point' rather than listening to doctors, nurses and surgeons. Put the NHS back in charge of the medical staff far more and watch it start to bloom again.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 08:50 AM

"Go and join The Sealed Knot, then you can chop off Charles I's head over and again, whilst beating up the Royalists. At least you could get your anger out in a different way. ;0)"

Er, I'm not such a fan of Oliver Cromwell either. I'm reading a very good book on the English Civil War at the moment by Susan Parnell. I have thought about the Sealed Knot, but apparently it's not difficult to break a rib or worse in a push of pike. Gerrard Winstanley has long been a personal hero of mine though.

However, getting rid of the monarchy is a great idea.

"Put the NHS back in charge of the medical staff far more and watch it start to bloom again."

I couldn't agree more.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:26 AM

well you've conviced me lizzy.

66p is a real bargain.

I'll have two of them - make that with fries, and a chocolate drop Macflurry.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:30 AM

They banned women from 'the field' for a while, Jack, after she caught a 16 foot pike in the spleen. Very nasty.

It's pretty scary when you're in a 'hedgehog' too, if you'll pardon the expression! lol There you are, trapped in the middle of a circle of men with 16 ft pikes (ooer, missus), pikes all facing outwards, and you get charged by the enemy on horseback...horses are terrified, canon and musket firing off all around you, and nowhere to run...

Lizzie, former Camp Follower and adminstererererrrrr of water to the sick and needy soldiers.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:34 AM

"I'll have two of them - make that with fries, and a chocolate drop Macflurry."

LOL

Hey, I've even got a Royal McDonald's connection here...Yup!

First time I *ever* went to a McDonalds, in about 1865, was in Windsor! It's right opposite the castle, still there too. I was a bit excited as they were so coooooool, in those days. I had a Big Mac and lurrrrrrved it!

I love Windsor too, really pretty town. WHY Mrs. Queen bought the castle though I've no idea, because she has planes flying over every few minutes which she could almost reach out and touch. Must have been a darn good estate agent who sold it to her! ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:55 AM

Taken from:

"The Crown Estates Annual Report 2008"

Chairman's Introduction The Crown Estate Website

"Over the last 12 months, The Crown Estate achieved tremendous financial results in difficult market conditions. I am delighted that we have returned £211.4 million to the Treasury, in the form of our net revenue surplus, an increase of 5.6% on the previous year. Capital values also rose to £7.3 billion, up 3.3% on the previous year."

So in return for the civil purse (£60 million) the Government gets £211.4 million - I ask you once again whose getting the best of that deal??

ZANULabour earlier last year wanted to sack Charles from his position as head of the Duchy of Cornwall, guess why?? He was making it too profitable, running it too efficiently - Pity the likes of Gordon of cartoon and his pal Darling could do the same for the country as a whole.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:58 AM

1865 Lizzie? You look a bit younger in your phot's

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 10:10 AM

"ZANULabour earlier last year wanted to sack Charles from his position as head of the Duchy of Cornwall, guess why?? He was making it too profitable, running it too efficientl"

I bet he doesn't run it personally. He has someone to put toothpaste on his Oral B.

"So in return for the civil purse (£60 million) the Government gets £211.4 million - I ask you once again whose getting the best of that deal?"

Good point and thanks for the clarification. I would say dump the civil list, make the monarchy independent and they can pay full-on tax like most normal people and be in charge of their own destiny.

Freedom for Tooting!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 10:15 AM

We have The Duchy of Cornwall biccies and jams all over the place down here in The West Country. Bit pricey though, but someone's buying them, obviously.

No, 1865, John. :0)

They were taken last March, 2008, so I was only 143 back then. I've gone 'orf rapidly since. 'Delayed Divorce Reaction' I think it's called.

I had a Parliamentarian almost knock me out at Reading once, you know. Came charging at me after the battle, whoooooooom! pushed me over, face down, then jumped on top of me. Geez, my head hit the ground with the biggest thump. He jumped off and started apologising, and I started mopping up the blood and cursing him, telling him he was taking this 'rape and pillage' bit, a bit tooooooo far! I threatened him with my hessian covered Robinson's Barley Water Bottle, which was filled with 'magic water' to bring the troops back to life. That got him worried! ;0)

Ah, happy days.. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 10:37 AM

Prince Charles designed a lovely village in Dorset...and he's very in to nature, championing organic farming long before it became 'fashionable' He looks after the land, there are all sorts of things he's done which are good..

18 out of the 20 charities in here, are his idea:

The Prince's Charities

And of course, this has helped thousands of people get into work, run their own businesses..

The Prince's Trust



I feel sorry for Prince Charles at times. He was a shy and quiet little boy who needed his mother. He never got her, she had him 'for the country' Anne too. So they packed him off to the toughest boarding school going, far away from them, and kinda left him to it.
Then he was made to marry a woman he didn't love, because he wasn't allowed to marry the woman he DID love, she being Catholic, an' all, although why he didn't just renounce the throne and run off with her, who knows, but duty called, and after The Duke of York, he'd have had his grandmother to answer to if he had..and he was desperately fond of her. And the one person he truly loved as a young man growing up, and who was more of a father to him than his own, was blown to smithereens..I can still remember that day, August Bank Holiday Weekend...Lord Mountbatten, gone..and Charles's world grew a little darker..

So in a way, despite the unhappiness that Diane had to endure, which was deeply unfair, I'm glad that he's finally ended up with the woman he truly loves. I don't go a bundle on them, hate the hunting bit and other stuff, but I'd not wish ill on him. At base, I think he cares about his country very much, and cares about the planet too. He's been laughed at all his life, made fun of, never been given a chance really.

At least he stood up to his mother over lowering the flag for Diana, and he made sure she was brought home safely. He could have just walked away and left it all.

Is he really such a nasty, unpleasant man? Or is he a man who's never been given a chance to be liked or respected because everyone's been so busy making fun of him?



Prince Charles - A Modern Prince

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack bereft of cookie for some rea
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 10:59 AM

That last post was I.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack dumped
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 10:59 AM

Too late.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 11:06 AM

"I would say dump the civil list, make the monarchy independent and they can pay full-on tax like most normal people and be in charge of their own destiny."

Ehmmm - They already do pay full-on tax like most people.

But I would put this forward as an example in logic as to why "marxists" should never run anything.

Status Quo - (Not the Band - The current situation)

Government pays civil purse/civil list for Royal family as Head of State - Cost £60 million

Crown Estates contribute £211.4 million to Government

Under this system Goverment is basically £151.4 million to the good.

Follow Sugarfoots advice and - I would say dump the civil list, make the monarchy independent and they can pay full-on tax like most normal people and be in charge of their own destiny. And you get this:

Government has to pay civil list to whoever becomes Head of State = £60 million

The now sacked Royal Family gets £211.4 million less this full on tax = £116.27 million

Government receives this full on tax = £95.13 million

Under this arrangement:
The Royal Family are better off - £116.27 million instead of the £60 million they received before.

The Goverment is far worse off - They get £95.13 million instead of the £211.4 million they received before and they still have to cough up the £60 million they did before because the country still has to have a Head of State.

Brilliant!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 11:06 AM

You were saying you liked the ale the Duchy make, Jack.. :0)

Duchy Originals Ale

Around The Duchy of Cornwall - Home Farm

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 11:09 AM

Gawd, no-one tell the Queen about that Teribus, else she'll resign! :0) LOL

Some great working out there, well done.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 12:03 PM

"Ehmmm - They already do pay full-on tax like most people."

"No-one knows what Betty is taxed on her income as it's a secret, and voluntary - it really should be law that the Monarch pays full tax on all her income if she doesn't already."


Mrs. Queen - and Tax



"But I would put this forward as an example in logic as to why "marxists" should never run anything."

"You're right - god forbid anyone but greedy capitalists should be given a chance to balls up the economy."


Ooh, I don't know, New Labour's doing a grand job of that at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 03:08 AM

So are 'Pakie', 'Towelhead, 'Sooty' and 'Fuzzy-Wuzzie' terms of racist abuse? - we'll never know, I suppose!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 05:18 AM

"So are 'Pakie', 'Towelhead, 'Sooty' and 'Fuzzy-Wuzzie' terms of racist abuse? - we'll never know, I suppose!"

Only when 'ordinary' people use them.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 07:01 AM

Yes Jim, they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 07:23 AM

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:18 PM

""So are 'Pakie', 'Towelhead, 'Sooty' and 'Fuzzy-Wuzzie' terms of racist abuse? - we'll never know, I suppose!"

Only when 'ordinary' people use them. ""


Strangely enough Rosie, the exact opposite!!

Do you really believe that the News of the World would have published the same story if it had been you or I that made the comment?

It is the very fact of Harry's celebrity that made a story out of nothing, in order to increase sales of the dirty rag.

And incidentally, Charles' polo team mate is nicknamed "Sooty" because his name is Suttish (uncertain of exact spelling), and has nothing to do with his skin hue. But of course that wouldn't fit with Jim's perception of Charles as racist, so he conveniently ignores it.

Don't be fooled by those who "protest too much". They have their own bigotries.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 04:00 AM

" made a story out of nothing, in order to increase sales of the dirty rag."
So it's not a term of racist abuse then? - Comforting to know!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 07:04 PM

Did you ever serve in the armed forces, Mr Carroll?

If you had, I'm sure you would know that, within that close community, there are certain conventions which would be considered offensive in the outside world.

Among those conventions, the use of nicknames is almost universal in military circles. They do not signify bigotry on the part of users, but rather a degree of easy respect between colleagues with a common purpose.

It is very akin to black people using the term Nigga amongst themselves, which would rightly be inappropriate, if I were to use it.


Somebody saw an opportunity to make some money, stole the video tape, and sold it to the News of the World, thereby bringing the whole matter into the public eye when that scurrilous rag also saw profit in publishing it.

1. Don't try to tell me that aversion to racism played any part in those actions, because you know damn well that neither party gives a damn about anything other than making money.

2. I repeat. This would never have seen the light of day, but for the fact that it was Prince Harry.

3. Your assumption that the lieutenant WAS offended, but dare not say so is simply that, AN ASSUMPTION, without the least evidence or credibility.

4. Do not presume to make assumptions as to whether or not I am a racist.

I loathe racists with a passion, and am the first to speak out against scum like the BNP, but racism is not just about a word, it is also about intent.

I feel that further explanation would be wasted on you as you obviously are incapable of seeing beyond the word to what lies behind.

Indeed you are more bigotted in your hatred of the Royal Family, than I could ever be about race.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 09:57 PM

Those terms are not appropriate. If they are in common use in his regiment, perhaps the regiment should be disbanded as an example.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Mr Yeahbut
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:52 PM

This thread topic got me thinking much recently about the nature and culture of 'transgresive humour'
amongst friends and social peers..

..even the most educated & enlightened
and devoutly PC amongst us are only human after all,
and not always 100% in control of our deeper darkest naughtiest impulses..

..and that is the wayward part of our complex human psyches
laying in wait to catch us out by surprise
when we hear bad sick jokes we really should not find
the least bit amusing..

but.. occasionally crack us up in hysterics..



and its that aspect of human nature that has always provided ripe pickings
for the edgiest smartest comedians and social satirists
to exploit and manipulate, and reveal to ourselves our baser potential
to laugh out loud at subjects that are just very 'wrong'.


There is absolutely no such thing as a 'good' racist joke..

but sometimes despite our better nature and intentions
they can be really quite funny..

Why ???!! who knows..

This is by no means a justification.. just an observation of our less than perfect human nature..

Whilst thinking, and researching contextual material, I stumbled on this link..


http://www.sickipedia.org/index.php


don't go there if you know you will be angered by vile offensive bad jokes...

I don't recomend or condone it, just provide it as 'food for thought'

most of it is shit.. but there is also evidence of creativity and inventiveness
which far surpasses what the subject matter of any of those nastiest of jokes deserves..

And not too impossible perhaps to draw links with the 'military mindset'
under consideration here..

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:00 AM

I think a lot of people who are defending Harry are taking it for granted that this was a level of "banter" that was acceptable within the regiment. In fact, he doesn't actually say "Our little Paki friend" to the lad's face, but quietly, far from the soldier's hearing.

Those who describe this as regimental cameraderie are no better informed than those of us who perceive it as a possible example of institutionalised racism. No one knows whether Harry (and others) used this term to the Ahmed Raza Khan's face. We do know that Harry rang him to offer an apology, though - would this have been necessary if the soldier had been aware that this term was regularly used light-heartedly within the regiment? We also know that the soldier's relatives have been deeply offended by the use of the word.

The singer Billy Bragg joined the army in his youth. He was already somewhat disenchanted with the squaddie lifestyle when news came to the regiment one day that Bob Marley had died. Bragg was devastated, as Marley was one of his musical heroes. He was shocked and disgusted, though, by the fact that the barracks room resounded to the jeering racist slurs of his colleagues, who could not acknowledge and respect Marley as one of the greatest musical influences that the world has ever produced, but could only define (and demean) him by his race. Bragg cites this as the turning point which led to him resigning his commission.

While this is something that took place 30 years ago, I think it's fair to say that it is indicative of an institutionalised racism in the British army which it has been fighting ever since, but now and again, just like in the police force, an example comes to public attention which suggests that there's still a long way to go. When one of those examples is provided by a member of the royal family, it's rather inexcusable, IMHO.

Doesn it matter whether a racist slur is used in hatred or in jest? Whether it hurts, or simpply patronises? I don't think so.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:48 AM

No! Sorry, but you can't have the moral high ground, if you regard any reference to black people as racist and unacceptable, while remaining blissfully unmoved by "Taffy", "Yank", "Jock", "Ginger",
"Whitey", and a lot of other references to origin or colour which are apparently exempt from your moral outrage.

Why do you believe that intent is unimportant, when you would all say that those names are affectionate banter.

In fact all of them have, at some time been used as pejorative terms, but have also been acceptable nicknames in military circles, and wouldn't raise an eyebrow here.

Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that in your world, only black people can be insulted?

Incidentally, I watched that video too, and considering that the camera was about four to six feet from the lieutenant, and the only sound was Harry's comment, I find it strange that Ruth should think that he didn't hear, especially as he was sitting looking directly into the lens and obviously aware he was being filmed.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:08 AM

Don, I am in absolute and total agreement with you.

I also think there are many members of 'Hypocrites R Us' in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:39 AM

"I also think there are many members of 'Hypocrites R Us' in this thread."

Why, because not everyone agrees on a subject?

I can actually see Don's point of view, but happen to disagree as my experience of this sort of thing is not one where words like 'Paki' are used as terms of endearment.

Nothing hypocritical about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM

Jack, surely it's very hypocritical when people decry the use of what they judge to be 'racist' words, yet themselves describe members of the Royal family in terms which are equally derogatory, if not more so.

I think that's what Lizzie means (although she's clearly very capable of speaking for herself!) :-)

Let he who is without blemish cast the first stone.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:06 AM

BWM - we're in danger of getting mixed up here. Calling someone a name is not the same as using a term of racial abuse.

For instance, you might call me a fat talentless twat and you might well be correct and I might be offended but you can call anyone a fat talentless twat regardless of skin colour. You might be being rude and those who live in airy-fairy land and not the real world might baulk at such terms, but people have been trading insults since our ancestors uttered their first sentence.

Harry wasn't using a nickname, he was using a term based on his skin colour and ethnic origin. You could call me a paki, but of course it'd be meaningless as I'm not asian. I judge this to be a racist word because I've heard my friends called when it was being used pejoratively - what do you suggest I do, turn a blind eye?

So, I still think the Royal Family are a bunch of sponging tossers who should bog off, but I would not say they are a bunch of sponging niggers because that is racially offensive to a large proportion of the population the world over, regardless of however many gangsta rappers or Tarantino films bandy the word about.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:15 AM

No,
I have not been in the army - I live in the real world where people like Stephen Lawrence are murdered because they are a nig-nogs, or where Asians have petrol poured through their letter boxes and lit because they are Pakies. At present we are witnessing what amounts to a campaign of ethnic cleansing of Travellers - whoops sorry - knackers is the word used here to assist that particular process.
Nor do I hate the royal family - I consider them an anachronistic hangover from feudalism.
Any hatred I have is reserved for racists who consider it acceptable to use the above terms (and dress in uniforms which symbolize the behaviour described), including those who consider their social standing permits them to do so.
I am not particularly fond of apologists of such behaviour who facilitate these atrocities.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:22 AM

"I also think there are many members of 'Hypocrites R Us' in this thread."

Why, because not everyone agrees on a subject?


No.

Because some in here happily fire words at others, with intended malice behind them, choosing to deliberately verbally abuse them, on a personal level. Yet they set themselves up as some kind of saint when it comes to racism.

As I've said before in this thread, please explain to me why one is 'acceptable' and one is not, to the very people who do this.

You cannot say "This Stinks!" whilst causing a stink yourself.

Why is it OK to make some feel they have no talent, or they are worthless human beings, hated, loathed, looked down upon or intellectually bereft...and yet some of the very people who do this are now saying how utterly appalling it is to upset others, when it has 'racism' connected to it?

You cannot have one rule for 'racism' and one rule for everything else.

Racism is a feeling or belief that one race has particular traits and that one race, (that of the racist) is superior to another.

However, feeling that *you* are superior to ANY person, no matter if they are of another race or not, is one of the worst traits in people, in my book.

Feeling that you are 'superior' towards anyone is wrong, surely?

Unless, I guess, you belong to Hypocrites R Us.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:25 AM

I get your point Jack but, in Backwoods-World, abuse is abuse whether on the basis of skin-colour, parentage, waist-size, whatever.

Do you think that overweight people aren't hurt when others abuse them by calling them 'Fat Cunt' (exactly as I've been abused on many occasions)? You might see it as just 'name-calling'. I see it, and other similar stuff, as an insult made with the intention of causing hurt, and thus it is abuse.

I make no distinctions between different kinds of abuse, and I do my best to avoid indulging in abuse, whether it be racist, sexist, weightist, sexist, anti-Royalist, whatever.

Abuse is abuse. All kinds of abuse are to be deplored. People who criticise others for one kind of abuse, and then go on to perpetrate abuse themselves are indeed hypocrites. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:31 AM

"Harry wasn't using a nickname, he was using a term based on his skin colour and ethnic origin."

Now could you explain that Stigweard/Sugarfoot Jack??

Oh, by the bye Jim the plural of 'Paki' would be 'Pakis' - no 'e' - Coming from a shortening of the name of the country Pakistan.

Which brings me back to Sugarfoot's remark - "ethnic" origin - WTF were they called before 1947 Jack?? I ask because that was when Pakistan came into being - name didn't exist before then. "Skin colour" what is being referred to is where the person, who by now we have clearly established took no offence at the remark, comes from - exactly the same as 'Jock', 'Taffy', 'Paddy', 'Yank', 'Yarpy', 'Frog', etc.

As to use of such terms in the services have a listen to the introduction on Shep Woolleys, "Norman Docherty and the Chinese Rock & Roll Band" - absolutely hilarious and I would find it very hard to believe that anyone would take offence at it, particulary the main character who did exist in real life.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:38 AM

"Why is it OK to make some feel they have no talent, or they are worthless human beings, hated, loathed, looked down upon or intellectually bereft..."

Er, what are you talking about? This is about calling asiam people names. As you've probably guessed, I'm a republican and a marxist and believe we are all born equal, regardless of race, creed or gender. I'm not superior to anyone, and equal to everyone, including those for whom birth means privilege provides them with more than most can even dream of.

All that matters is people - and that is the end of it. If those in positions of wealth and privilege can't behave responsibly then they should expect to be taken down a peg or two, especially if they take money from the public purse, where people who can ill-afford to are already giving too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:44 AM

Regards name calling and hypocricy.

Harry doesn't enter my thoughts much at all I must confess. And to be honest, though I have very strong misgivings about the Royal Family, I think Charlie isn't a bad man. And I think he takes his duties seriously. But if the Royals are to function usefully in any way, and as far as I can see, their sole 'legitimate' function (if any) is as *figureheads*, then their behaviours *must* be exceptional.

I have no feelings about Harry, other than his behaviours indicate to me that he is at best a weak, foolish, ignorant, and evidently over priviliged young man. Whose behaviours on more than one occassion *that we actually know of* again, strongly suggest to me, that he is a chip off the old (with his "slitty-eyes" and "fuzzy-wuzzies") Philip block.

And indeed, I've never called him *any* name in my life, apart from *on this thread*. And that, PURELY to demonstrate what I'd hope might be a pretty self-evident point. Which has obviously not been made... Or has it?

I for one remain distinctly unimpressed, and think that the Royals need to begin seriously cleaning up their act. We are now in a multi-cultural UK. The Wogs, Paki's, and Towelheads as well as the Slitty Eyes, Fuzzie-Wuzzies and Kykes ain't going back 'home', this is their home. With it's Tikka Masalas, Reggae, Irish pubs, Donner Kebabs and now the all new Eastern European Folk Music on our streets.

These people need to recognise that they now must represent *all* citizens of these Isles in order to maintain whatever legitimacy as figureheads for the UK, they may be capable of continuing to make any convincing claim for.

Evidently Eton is utterly worthless as an education for teaching the young Royals how to perform their duties correctly in this modern UK - where they are no-longer rulers of a 'great' Empire, but (exceedingly well paid) public servants of this multi-cultural little island. Well, well. I guess that's not exactly a surprise...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:50 AM

So........name-calling (a.k.a. "Abuse") is OK, as long as it's a member of the Royal family (who, incidentally, doesn't have the luxury of being able to argue back, Rosie - certainly not on a public forum like this one) who's the target?

Have I understood you correctly, Rosie?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:13 AM

It's OK for Harry to call an asian a paki, but I'm wrong for calling him "and over-privileged tosspot"?*

Can I ask if any of those who are defending Harry currently use these names to the faces of people?







* Actually, in hindsight this is a little personal, so I would agree that wasn't so nice. But the question still stands.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:31 AM

No, Jack.

It's wrong for Harry to call an Asian 'Paki', if by doing so he intends to denigrate him and cause hurt.

It's wrong for you to call Harry an 'overprivileged toss-pot' if by doing so you intend to denigrate him and cause hurt.

It's wrong for someone to state on a public forum that someone else is illegitimate, if by doing so they intend to denigrate him and cause hurt.

It's wrong for someone to call someone else 'Fat Cunt' if by doing so they intend to denigrate him and cause hurt.

It's simply a case of consistency - and it's consistency that's missing from the attitudes of some of the posters on here. You can't decry abuse, then go on to be an abuser yourself.

I don't like any sort of abuse. And speaking as a former Fat Cunt, I had plenty.

IMHO and my final word. I've got a life.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:47 AM

"It's wrong for Harry to call an Asian 'Paki', if by doing so he intends to denigrate him and cause hurt."

But we're not to worry about all the other people who are offended by this term then? They don't matter because it wasn't aimed at them personally?

"It's wrong for you to call Harry an 'overprivileged toss-pot' if by doing so you intend to denigrate him and cause hurt."

Which I've acknowledged . . . but if I have to kneel then . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:49 AM

. . . I won't.

Lost my cookie again - that was me above!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:56 AM

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:25 PM

Jack, you're not stupid, you know exactly what I'm saying. I'll say it once more for the sake of clarity.

Abuse is abuse. All abuse is wrong. An Asian is an Asian by accident of birth and abusing him because of that is wrong. It's equally wrong to abuse a Royal simply because he was born a Royal by an accident of birth. Neither the Asian nor the Royal has any influence over the circumstances of his conception or birth, and it's wrong to abuse him on the basis of that conception and birth - be it a fact, or a fiction that is the product of someone's over-fertile imagination.

And I do believe that there is a sub-culture nowadays who eagerly seek to find offence where no offence is necessarily intended. It's the kind of schoolgirl-playgound "You said somthing about Susan, she's my friend so I'm gonna kick your fuckin' head in" mentality that goes on amongst the young, and amongst the less-mature adults in our society.

And there I take my leave. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:36 PM

"Oh, by the bye Jim the plural of 'Paki' would be 'Pakis' -"
I bow to your obvious familiarity with racist terms.
"Racism is a feeling or belief that one race has particular traits and that one race, (that of the racist) is superior to another."
No Lizzie - racism is having petrol poured through your letterbox because you're a 'Paki'
"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "
No need to stress the point Lizzie - we already know how you go through life.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:29 PM

No need to stress the point Lizzie - we already know how you go through life.

Is that the Royal 'we', Jim?



"Talk about the music, Lizzie"

This is *Excellent*


Prince Harry, carrying on his Mother's AIDS work

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:18 PM

"Have I understood you correctly, Rosie?"

No, you haven't. And I don't know if you not understanding me, is deliberately obtuse, or that (what I assumed my perfectly clear) *ironic statement* was mysteriously veiled.

Which I don't believe it to be.

Do I need to refer to Harry as an "Inbreed", to make the point to those who find his very own "Paki" perfectly acceptable, that some 'Jokey' terms about other people, are indeed offensive?

What adds insult to injury, is the fact that I have to actually illustrate this highly hillarious point, to those same people.

Hypocrites R Us much?

I'm so outa this waste of time 'discussion'.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:23 PM

I'm so outa this waste of time 'discussion'.

Well, it does seem to be going round in circles. I'm with Backwoodsman and Lizzie and I don't mind if anybody else disagrees with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:42 PM

All this intellectualising (and spelling correction) and we still don't know if 'Paki (or Packie maybe) is a term of racist abuse.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:12 PM

Leading members of the British Establishment are already looking forward to Barack Obama's first official visit. Gordon Brown is very keen to take him on a historical tour of Scotland, the Queen is very much hoping to entertain him at an official state banquet and Prince Harry is ready to tell him a few jokes.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when President Obama first meets Prince Phillip!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:40 PM

""Any hatred I have is reserved for racists who consider it acceptable to use the above terms (and dress in uniforms which symbolize the behaviour described), including those who consider their social standing permits them to do so.
I am not particularly fond of apologists of such behaviour who facilitate these atrocities.""


I don't suppose "Whitey", "Honky", and "Cueball" meet your highly specialised criteria for terms of racial abuse.

I don't think they would sell many extra copies of the News of the World either, so we probably won't see any outcry about THEIR use any time soon, either here or in the papers.

It is still about intent to denigrate or cause hurt.

Hypocrites R Us. Possibly Rosie, as long as you are viewing the world through those one sided blinkers.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:55 AM

"I don't suppose "Whitey", "Honky", and "Cueball...."
Don't like either but they don't lead to getting petrol poured through the letter box.
Still not got the bottle for a yea or nay on the racist offense given? As I said. sctatch an apologist......
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:58 AM

Sorry,
Before the phantom 'corrector' gets to work and avoids the issue again - that should read 'scratch' - must clear up the serious issues before dealing with the trivial.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 03:27 AM

Turkmenistan is the home of the Turkmen
Afghanistan is the home of the Afghans
Kurdistan is the home of the Kurds.
Uzbekistan is the home of the Uzbeks.
Pakistan is different because there is no Paki tribe and the people are properly called Pakistanis, but it is odd that an abreviation is regarded as offensive.
It is though.

Civillians do not get it about soldiers.
After going through Sandhurst together, the shared hardships and endurance and intimate living will make those men closer than most brothers. Eavesdropping on them will not bring understanding if you have not experienced that culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:03 AM

Hardships, endurance and a pack of murdering bastards, you forgot that one Keith. Well it appears as the weeks go by they are becoming fewer in number.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:09 AM

I did not forget it Al.
It is a slander that you can not justify because it is a lie.
You hate all ginger people.
You hate all soldiers.
You are just full of hate.
You must be very unhappy.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:12 AM

"All this intellectualising (and spelling correction) and we still don't know if 'Paki (or Packie maybe) is a term of racist abuse."

The way I've seen it used (against a friend), it was so I associated with racist abuse. Backwoodsman, Don and eanjay don't so I guess it's down to personal experience. We're arguing in circles as eanjay said, so I take my leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 07:36 AM

"Civillians do not get it about soldiers."
Those living in Gaza did - with a vengeance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 07:53 AM

Jim, Gaza is being discussed in other threads.
The reference was to relationships between soldiers in a small unit, not pro or anti war.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:44 AM

Keith,
Whoever this feller is, soldier, prince, whatever, he is prone to using racist abuse and dressing up in a uniform which symbolises racism in its most extreme form.
Added to this, members of his family also use racist terms and two of them in the past openly gave their open support to Hitler - you know - the feller who oversaw the extermination of countless millions.
Does this not ring alarm bells with you?
Is it really difficult to state whether or not you believe Paki, Towelhead, Sooty and Fuzzie-wuzzie are racist terms, therefore offensive, therefore unacceptable, particularly from members of Britain's most prominent family.
A number of people who have given their support to the behaviour of this character have ridden off into the sunset without having the bottle to answer this question, leaving me with the impression that they are either closet racists or supporters of racism by their silence.
It really is as easy as that.
Where do you stand?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:59 AM

Where do I stand on racism, racist behaviour and racists abuse?
Exactly alongside you Jim.
I detest it and always challenge it when I come across it.
Do I "support to the behaviour of this character "?
Some of it, yes.
Especially his voluntary work in Africa.
But this discussion is about that video clip, and I see it from a different perspective than yours.
I recognise that kind of banter between men closer than friends.
I have seen it many times, and I have seen disrespect, and I recognise the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:22 AM

Yes and I stand by it.
I made Oakville tell the truth, except that the real Oakville felt no shame for the lies he told.
When the victim of a lying attack by a Guest, why should I not fight back when the mods did nothing?
Presumably you support the lying Oakville.
Tell us why.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Mr Yeahbut
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:35 AM

me..? I'm neither royalist or racist..

but I do have a mature positive respect for military service,
and am prepared to give the majority of UK service personel
the benefit of the doubt
that the culturally transgressive language they often use amongst themselves
does not indicate any genuinely significant active racist intent.

.. and yes, at the same time I am uncomfortable with the low level degree of institutionalized tacit racism
that may still be prevelent..

work always needs to be done to improve attitudes,
but human nature is neither yet perfect,
or without contradictions..!!??


Is it really difficult to state whether or not you believe Paki, Towelhead, Sooty and Fuzzie-wuzzie are racist terms, therefore offensive, therefore unacceptable, particularly from members of Britain's most prominent family.

Of course, these are all obviously terms that no sensible person would ever consider 'right' to use in public.
Even, if some of us leftie/liberal/progressive types
may occasionally use them in an 'ironic' cultural context
in converstion with our our closest friends,
we would still need to think twice and proceed with extreme caution..

"A number of people who have given their support to the behaviour of this character have ridden off into the sunset without having the bottle to answer this question, leaving me with the impression that they are either closet racists or supporters of racism by their silence."

So are we all of us damned to be racists by default
until
we all individually specifically seek to satisfy your personal terms of approval
of our true anti racist credentials ????????????????

well.. I repeat, me..? I'm neither a royalist or a racist..

but I definitely find it difficult to tolerate
self-rightious moral high ground grabbin' smug c@ntz...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:06 AM

"A number of people who have given their support to the behaviour of this character have ridden off into the sunset without having the bottle to answer this question, leaving me with the impression that they are either closet racists or supporters of racism by their silence."


Er..I've ridden off into the sunset because I'm fair fed up with you wanting nothing but an endless *argey-bargey, Jim.

With of course, no disrespect meant there towards any *Argentinians.
;0)

Here, Jim....HERE is the young lad who you want to slam to hell!

Prince Harry talking about his beloved Mum on the 10th Anniversay of her death

Taken from that link, Harry's speech:

"William and I can separate life into two parts. There were those years when we were blessed with the physical presence beside us of both our mother and father.

And then there are the 10 years since our mother's death. When she was alive, we completely took for granted her unrivaled love of life, laughter, fun and folly. She was our guardian, friend and protector.

She never once allowed her unfaltering love for us to go unspoken or undemonstrated.

She will always be remembered for her amazing public work. But behind the media glare, to us, just two loving children, she was quite simply the best mother in the world.

We would say that, wouldn't we.

But we miss her. She kissed us last thing at night. Her beaming smile greeted us from school. She laughed hysterically and uncontrollably when sharing something silly she might have said or done that day. She encouraged us when we were nervous or unsure.

She -- like our father -- was determined to provide us with a stable and secure childhood.

To lose a parent so suddenly at such a young age, as others have experienced, is indescribably shocking and sad. It was an event which changed our lives forever, as it must have done for everyone who lost someone that night.

But what is far more important to us now, and into the future, is that we remember our mother as she would have wished to be remembered as she was: fun-loving, generous, down-to-earth, entirely genuine.

We both think of her every day.

We speak about her and laugh together at all the memories.

Put simply, she made us, and so many other people, happy. May this be the way that she is remembered."



Well, he has no mother to be beside him anymore, but he sure as hell has kind and sensible people who can see beyond the greed of the News of the World, and who will stand up and protect him from the vitriol that some LOVE to throw at him!

Diana, whether you liked her or not, was a damn wonderful mother to her boys. Would that she were still here for them!

Go and stand across from her island, look out there and ask yourself if this feeling, deeply emotional, loving and kind woman, who reached out to all, no matter what colour, what background, what faith, could *ever* raise a son who was a racist!! GEEZ!!

And as for the Nazi uniform, we've been there, done that...He was a young lad badly encouraged by his elder brother to wear something that neither of them thought deeply enough about. As I said, I've no doubt Harry ridiculed the SS something rotten at that party, along the lines of the TV series 'Allo 'Allo....and that he did NOT wear it to sit with a whole pile of other people dressed up at a fancy dress party, simply there to spout racist abuse!!

Holy Jumping Catfish!!!!!!!   GET REALLLLLLLLLLLL!!

Now, PLEASE get off his back once and for all, because this endless outpouring of abuse from you towards Harry is, for me, beyond belief.

I was one of those 'soppy twits' who took flowers up to London for Diana...and I saw the ARMY of people who descended upon the city from all over the world! I stood in Kensington Gardens, where the scent of flowers, three feet deep in places, was overpowering!   I heard the silence of thousands of people, utter, total silence...and felt the grief of a nation. I saw the many mementos people had tied to the gates of Kensington Palace, along the railings outside.....saw the poems, the artwork, incredible things that people had left for her...the flowers hanging from the trees, the bells, the ribbons..the horse belonging to the mounted policeman, only ONE was needed in that peaceful crowd of thousands...the flowers reached up above the horse's knees, all around him...as he stood there silently with his head bowed down, almost sensing the sadness that surrounded him.

As I stood there, Diana lay over in St. James's Palace...whilst her sons visited her coffin, and said goodbye to the mother who had loved them both, more than any other person on earth.

So, if now and again Harry, as a young man, says or does something a bit stupid, I am perfectly able to forgive him, because I have such admiration for a young man who is being made out to be the new 'baddie' of the Royals, by a media who gives not a shite, and some people who pour all their bitterness and anger on to him..

And why do I respect him..I'll tell you why....Because he has had the guts NOT to go on air and tell every damned umpleasant person to FOOOOK the hell off out of his life, out of his private life, out of his world, and leave him the hell alone..

And no, he can NEVER resign from being a Prince, because even if he did it 'officially' he is a Money Machine to evil and greedy bastards who will hound him until the day he dies, as they hounded his mother..

THE END

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 01:22 PM

Would or time not be better spent writing novels now that Barbara Cartland has popped her fluffy slippers Lizzie?
I don't think I have ever read such a load such sloppy sycophantic garbage.
Really does put everything else you have written into context.
Jim Carroll
PS Still don't know if you thing Paki is racist invective - but judging by above - it doesn't really matter!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:52 PM

Would that be the same Harry who also said last year, "I don't like England very much"?

He doesn't seem to mind my taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:23 PM

Geez, some people just can't stop.

I pity them.

I really pity them for the hatred and bitterness they harbour. It seems to be what keeps them alive, the wanting to 'hate'

How sad that a young man has been made to feel almost alien in his own country, because of the hatred of others. In other countries he is liked, loved, treated as a human being and respected for the good work that he does, but over here, over here dwell so many with a deep bitterness inside their hearts, as can be seen from this thread and from a particular section of the English folk world.

Another reason I respect Harry is for actually staying in this country when almost every part of him must want to leave it, because of the twisting, spinning, lying b*stards who will never leave him alone.




"I don't think I have ever read such a load such sloppy sycophantic garbage.
Really does put everything else you have written into context."

Yes, it was written with emotion, and from the heart, and I make no apology for that, whatsoever.

If your heart has hardened to such an extent that you feel nothing watching that video of Harry talking about his mother and that ALL you can take from it is yet more sarcasm, more bitter bile, then my heart weeps for that heart of yours.

My heart also weeps for Sidmouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:31 PM

""I don't suppose "Whitey", "Honky", and "Cueball...."
Don't like either but they don't lead to getting petrol poured through the letter box.
Still not got the bottle for a yea or nay on the racist offense given? As I said. sctatch an apologist......
Jim Carroll ""

Since your debating ability is so weak that your only recourse is an attempt to bolster argument with ad hominem attacks (Joe and Clones please note!), I shall put this in terms simple enough for your limited understanding.

If Prince Harry had been making that comment in the course of deliberately trying to hurt or belittle the lieutenant, I would now be standing shoulder to shoulder with you baying for his blood.

I have repeatedly said that I am anti prejudice in all its forms, and not like yourself, concerned only with the narrow definition of racism as being prejudice against black people.

I repeat just once more, in the vain hope of actually getting a new idea into that impermeable head, RACIST LANGUAGE IS ABOUT INTENT. You dismissed out of hand my citing of the use of the N word by black people amongst themselves, saying that it is not a racist term in that context, then you state that Paki is racist no matter the context.

You really do believe in having your cake and eating it. You are more racist than I, because there are racist terms that don't bother you since they denigrate whites, not blacks.

It is pointless to discuss further with you.
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:56 PM

Time this thread was put to bed? It's disappearing up it's own fundamental orifice.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:17 PM

Yup, I thoroughly agree, John.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:28 PM

"My heart also weeps for Sidmouth. "

LOL!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:43 PM

My laughs have all run out.

As has this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:50 PM

400 and out. PLEASE !!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Nickhere
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:55 PM

I heard the whole thing was filmed in a Hollywood basement... ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:57 PM

Yeah, time this thread was put to sleep, otherwise our resident Oliver Cromwell and John Bull will turn it into the Goon Show.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:28 AM

The suggestion that he was just one of the lads sharing a bit of banter with his mates is mealy-mouthed bullshit - he is a serving officer in his gran's armed forces and stands in line for the throne - doesn't mean much to me, but it does to some.
One of the terms he used 'Towelhead' came to prominence during the Iraq war and facilitated the atrocities at Abu Graib and Guantanamo, where prisoners are held illegally and have been tortured and humiliated on a regular basis, and almost certainly still are.
Shannon Airport is an hours drive from here; there are regular stop-overs of US planes shipping illegally held prisoners on their way to countries where torture and humiliation can continue uninterrupted until the new president calls a halt - maybe!
It doesn't matter too much as those heading for a taste of western civilisation and hospitality are only 'Towelheads and Pakis'.
"Since your debating ability is so weak"
May be a game of 'I can debate better than you', Don - not for them.
I've seen, and am still seeing the results of racism and the language that facilitates it through our contacts with the Travellets - whoops 'knackers'.
Jim Carroll
PS Isn't it interesting how some people tip-toe around the questions of the uniform and the family history?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:17 AM

"Would that be the same Harry who also said last year, "I don't like England very much"?

He doesn't seem to mind my taxes." - Ruth Archer

Would you mind quoting that remark in its context Ruth. As for him not minding your taxes, of course he doesn't mind your taxes, why should he? You don't mind his do you??

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:43 AM

My taxes facilitate his lifestyle through the public purse. If he dislikes England so much, maybe he should give up all his inherited wealth and privilege, get a job, and go and live somewhere that he likes.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 10:37 AM

"My taxes facilitate his lifestyle through the public purse." - Ruth Archer

Oh no it doesn't - Once again here it is "from the horse's mouth":

"Only the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh receive funding from the Civil List. The Duke receives £359,000 per year. The state duties and staff of other members of the Royal Family are funded from a Parliamentary Annuity, the amount of which is repaid by the Queen from the monies put into the Privy Purse from income from the Duchy of Lancaster."

So Prince Harry doesn't get a penny from the "public purse" as you call it. Oh and by the bye even if he did, his taxes would go towards it as much as yours Eh??

Well Ruth, there's nothing like pig ignorance for feeding bigotry is there. Next time you feel compelled to go into print - Check your facts first, it'll save you from making a complete and utter prat of yourself.

The remark about England by the way had something to do with the way he is treated by the press there.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 01:54 PM

About the Keeper of the Privy Purse:

"He oversees the Grants-in-Aid from Government Departments for the maintenance of the occupied Royal palaces and for Royal travel. Annual accounts are published for the Grants-in-Aid and the Civil List.

The Keeper and his team are additionally responsible for the property maintenance of the occupied Royal palaces and their gardens, for the financial aspects of Royal travel, for personnel matters and information technology in the Royal Household, for The Queen's private estates and for the commercial activities of the Royal Collection Trust."

Government grants = taxpayers' money. Our taxes facilitate their lifestyle, as I said.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:07 PM

Did you miss the "repaid by the Queen" part Ruth.

Oh and Harry pays tax just like you do, presuming of course that you do indeed pay tax.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:26 PM

I would have thought folks should be spending more time worrying about how Brown is making such total arseholes of us all, instead of getting offended on behalf of other people! But then I expect nothing else from bigoted folky lefties.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 04:41 PM

Ere yees still going on about what a young lad said in a war zone? Terminology regarding the enemy is a long "tradition". It's almost necessary for the dehumanizing of one's adversary. After all, if you called the lad across the way Scooter or Bubbles or some other inane affection, would it not be just a tad harder to fix bayonet and run him through?

Come, come, now. Get a grip. Send a wee lad into battle and expect him not to deal with killing and death in whatever way he can? Name calling is one of the basics of dehumanization of the enemy. How else can you kill Theodore? That rat bastard with the button eyes?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:27 PM

Prince Harry,third in line to the throne, has split with his girlfriend Chelsy Davy after five years.

24-year-old Hewitt split with Davy, a post-graduate law student at Leeds University, weeks after holidaying with her in Mauritius which was "eventful".

It was Davy's decision to end the relationship.The Zimbabwe-born daughter of millionaire safari operator Charles Davy said on a social website.

They separated in late 2007, apparently because Harry missed Davy's 22nd birthday party to watch the rugby World Cup final in Paris, but she missed the limelight and took him back.

It must be hard on the bloke, and to make matters worse, he's ginger.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:39 PM

"ginger"? Oh my... the racism! The inhumanity! I think I shall have to leave this thread and never return.

Hehehe. Why I bothered to post in the first plcae is odd to me. Saturday night and not much to do, I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 05:18 AM

ALERT

BNP trolls

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Ellie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 08:14 AM

Eh John, think your kinda confused, did you not mean Anti BNP member ?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 08:24 AM

Whatever! Your rabble rousing anti royalist clap trap is not appropriate on a folk music site.
You may not be BNP but you are just as nasty and insiduous, with equally repugnant views.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 09:45 AM

What's so repugnant about being anti-royalist?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Ellie
Date: 11 Feb 09 - 10:08 AM

John, Now I know your not confused. Your just half baked. So you support the Windsor family. Poor man.