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Subject: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:00 AM Well, well, well... I must say that I didn't see this comin' but looks as if Ms. Sarah has eclipsed Obama, Biden and McCain as the odds on favorite to be Commander in Chief by 2012.... Well, ya'll know that I'm still for Obama but I have a confession... She ol' gal is a dead ringer fir this girl I dated my senior year in high school and, yeah, she is mighty purdy... Lot purdier than any of the other guys in the race... Of course, Putin will run circles around her and we'll all prolly end up talking either Chinese or Russian but what the "Hey"??? Like they say... ...sh*t happens... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:06 AM Soccer must be important in the USA , , , , |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:40 AM I thought it was "hockey mom"? And by the way, what the hell is a "hockey mom"??? I've been wondering ever since I heard the term in connection with Sarah Palin. ;-) What do you do to qualify as one and why does it matter? I assume it means that you drive your kid to the hockey practice, but I'm not 100% sure. If it is that, why would anyone care? What difference could it possibly make? |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Alice Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:11 AM It's HOCKEY, not soccer, and it was only for a short time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:19 AM GO OILERS! |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Stu Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:24 AM Stop the planet I want to get off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: pdq Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:25 AM A Houston Oilers fan in Alberta? Must get the games on real strong radio. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:28 AM You are a STRANGE person, pdq. Trust all's well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: pdq Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:48 AM BTW, the actual polling data from yesterday (Gallup) show: McCain: 48% Obama: 45% This is the problem with a charismatic candidate. The "magic" can go away instantly and for no obvious reason. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:50 AM RCP shows a general average of about 1 point lead for McCain today. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:09 AM She's just too scary for words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:12 AM bank with ties to the family of John McCain was shut down by federal regulators on Friday, marking the 11th US bank failure this year and threatening to cause ripples across the presidential election campaign. Andrew McCain, son of the Republican presidential nominee, was a director of Nevada-based Silver State Bank until resigning in July for "personal reasons". EDITOR'S CHOICE In depth: US campaign 2008 - Sep-05Editorial Comment: Republican theatre - Sep-05Woman in the news: Sarah Palin - Sep-06US rivals clash on economy and job losses - Sep-05McCain seizes on theme of 'change' - Sep-05Video: US Daily View on McCain's speech - Sep-04He was a member of Silver State's audit committee, which has responsibility for overseeing the bank's financial accounts. Silver State was heavily exposed to construction and land development loans that have come under pressure as the housing market slumps. Much of the bank's business was concentrated in Las Vegas and other western cities that have suffered some of the sharpest falls in land prices after years of rapid growth and heavy speculation. Silver State had about $2bn of assets and $1.7bn in deposits at the end of June and reported a second-quarter net loss of $72.3m. Its failure is expected to cost the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, which insures bank deposits up to $100,000, about $450m-$550m. There is no evidence that Mr McCain did anything wrong nor that his departure was connected to the bank's financial troubles. But the episode is a potential embarrassment to his father at a time when bank failures are adding to a broader sense of gloom and economic insecurity among US voters. It could revive memories of John McCain's role in the "Keating Five" scandal during the 1980s savings and loans crisis, when he was reprimanded by a Senate watchdog for lobbying on behalf of a campaign donor whose mortgage lending institution was under investigation by regulators. The younger McCain joined the board of Silver State in February after it acquired Arizona-based Choice Bank, for whom he had served as a director since 2006. He is an adopted son from his father's first marriage but also has close ties to the senator's second wife, Cindy, in his role as chief financial officer of Hensley & Co, the Arizona-based beer distribution company controlled by Mrs McCain. The 11 bank failures in the US this year compare with three in all of 2007 and none in the preceding two years. More are expected. ___________________________________________ Ah, well; at least he was born normal. Maybe sex ed is not the only gap in the educational hierarchy of understanding. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM Palin Media Avoidance Watch: Day 9 -- McCain Camp Says She Won't Do Interviews Until It Knows She'll Be Treated with "Deference" September 07, 2008 9:41 AM Rick Davis, campaign manager for Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., just told Fox News Channel's Chris Wallace that McCain running mate Gov. Sarah Palin won't subject herself to any tough questions from reporters "until the point in time when she'll be treated with respect and deference." Davis assailed the way the media had discussed Palin and her family in the last week and said the campaign would wait until a less hostile media environment. So when will she subject herself to questions? "When we think it's time and when she feels comfortable doing it," Davis said, praising a Fox News Channel profile of Palin that ran last night. More here on ABC Maybe being ready on Day One is less important than being comfortable first, I guess. Two comments from the blog are worth repeating: So we have to be "nice" to Sarah Palin before we hear what her positions are? Whose country is this, anyway? This ain't Wasilla. Sit down and answer every single question that the electorate has. Otherwise, get out of the contest. How's that for nice, Miss Congeniality? Deference is something you earn, and the best way to earn it is by answering tough questions from skeptics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:43 AM Come on, Amos... Don't be like that... This election ain't about McCain anymore, "my friend", so jus' get on the Sarah bandwagon now and avoid the last minute rush... I mean, let's get real here... McCain was 7 points down and falling fast before Sarah and now he's 4 points ahead... What??? You think all these people woke up and decided they wanted a washed up ol' flip flopper for president??? Hell no, they didn't... They want Sarah and they think that she has the right stuff, you know with that big moose gun of hers, to take on Russia and China... Hey, who cares if the voters are wrong??? They have lots of experience of being wrong so... ...get with the program... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:50 AM I bet she gets 100% of the votes of the people who think with their other head. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:55 AM Well, the heterosexual ones, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: The Walrus Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:02 PM Just think, she'll be one heart attack away from becoming the first female President of the USA. Is she ambitious? Can the VP be arrested for possession of a baloon and pin 'with intent'? W |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:04 PM She's very ambitious. And quite ruthless. If I were a President McCain, with her as my VP, I would be very cautious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:07 PM He should have an official food taster, probably! Now, they are after our daughters' minds: No more Barbies! |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:08 PM I mentioned on a thread a few weeks back that she boded no good for the Dems. Anyone getting nervous yet? |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:42 PM "I bet she gets 100% of the votes of the people who think with their other head. " No, even the other head is sending out warning signs to stay away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:01 PM The increase in McCain-Palin support in polls shows that the public is beginning to think with their collective minds rather than cheering for another loser from an installment of American Idol. For Canadians, the McCain support for NAFTA is a big factor in their sideline activity. Go, McCain and Palin! Go, Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers! Who are the Houston Oilers? Didn't they die sometime ago? |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM I still want to know...what the hell is a "hockey mom"? And why does it matter? |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:14 PM A hockey mom is a mom who drives kids around to hockey games and sits in the bleachers and cheers for their kids. It really does seem to matter to some people. One of my sisters is a soccer mom, and she loves Palin. Of course, my sister is also a right wing, born-again, end times Christian, so that's probably a part of it, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:16 PM "Extreme" describes Sarah's problems... |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:17 PM I was a t-ball mom for a little while, and also a den co-mother for a Cub Scout troop, and I would have to say that in real terms, being something like that has no relevance whatever to the job of being president or vice president. It's just a form of populism to make political hay on that one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:24 PM Heh! Well, that's what I thought it was, Carol. I can't for the life of me see what it has to do with being qualified for public office though. Now, the moose hunting...that's different! I think that everyone who runs for public office should have blown away a moose or two in their time with a high-powered rifle. If they haven't, they're just not ready to lead! And that's why I think Obama's lack of moose-killing experience is probably the biggest thing he's got going against him right now (other than the fact that he's so obviously intelligent). ;-) What if the USA gets attacked at 3 AM by a rogue moose while Obama's on the watch, huh? What then? He'd probably sit down and have a nice talk with that moose and engage in a search for shared values, common ground, and mutual understanding. Well, I know what Sarah Palin would do, by God. She'd plug that goddamn moose right between the eyes. That woman is dangerous and she's not afraid to show it. That's the kind of person I WANT in the Oval Office (cough, cough...). Like Dick Cheney in a skirt...only way better in every way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:31 PM ...and hot. LOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: pdq Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:32 PM "Dick Cheney in a skirt"(???) Argh. I think you are closer to describing Janet Reno. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:37 PM Janet Reno is Dick Cheney's political doppelganger? I never realized... |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Claymore Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:38 PM I suspect the Hockey Mom comment (which was an ad lib when the teleprompter failed) will serve her well in Minnesota and Wisconsin (both Battleground states). And if they take a map of the US and locate the Appalachian mountain range, from Pennsylvannia to North Carolina, and draw a line about 100 miles out from the foothills, which would include the Ohio valley and the Piedmont of Virginia; that is where she could single-handedly win the race for McCain. Incidently Bobert, it was good to see your words on the other thread. If you get the book about McCain, North, Webb and the other graduates of the Naval Academy during that period entitled "The Nightingales Song"; look up Don Moore in the index; Bob Timberg quoted me more than I knew. Finally I don't know if anyone has mentioned the accident on the carrier Forrestal off the Vietnam coast in 67. The video is fairly famous as a 3.5 "Zuni" rocket from another plane accidently cooks off and hits McCains plane in the fuel tank at the other end of the carrier. Through the hellish flame and explosions, McCain can be seen going hand over hand along his flaming planes nose to swing down into a lessor part of the flames and be put out by another deck hand, who later died in a following explosion. (Warning! Snide Comment Follows) Who knows, maybe Obama had the same experience during a back flash from a crack pipe... I don't know about you, but the debate I'm definitely watching is the Veeps. I think maybe McCain is bringing a wild cat to a dog-fight... And the quickest way to stop a dog from chasing a cat is to let him catch one... |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:39 PM Well, I did say "way better", didn't I, pdq? ;-) What I mean is this...she's got the killer instinct. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:41 PM I think comments applied to Obama about crack pipes are pretty racist, myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:48 PM Hey, Claymore...you feel Obama should be penalized for not having had to escape from a burning fighter plane or undergo torture by Communists??? Well, gee, I'm sure he would have been happy to have had the chance to experience either of those exciting situations firsthand, but fortune just wasn't that kind to him as to provide it. So the guy's just plain unlucky. I can forgive him for that. McCain's obviously the lucky kind that those sort of things happen to, and Obama isn't. But I CAN'T forgive Obama for never having shot a moose! All he had to do was just go get a gun, walk out into the woods, and go do it. There's no excuse for his lack of moose killing. None. I won't vote for a man who has never shot a moose. Forget it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:49 PM I'm remembering conversations I had with the poster with the crack pipe comment, back during the 2000 election, in which I was told that McCain was a liberal and a Republican in name only. How times change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 01:55 PM By the way, I saw an ad in which Bullwinkle is protesting Sarah Palin's moose-hunting credentials. I always knew that stupid moose was a closet liberal, to say nothing of his squirrely friend with the flying helmet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:07 PM I don't know about anyone else, but I am getting tired of the bitch inferring that one has to have served in a war in order to qualify to serve as president: "There is only one man in this election who has ever really fought for you, and that man is John McCain," she said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:12 PM The Squirrel and Moose were commies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:13 PM She's not inferring it, Kat, she's implying it. In so doing she is doing the standard, typical, contemptible thing that is always done in USA politics if there's any opportunity to do it. Any candidate who has not served in a war will be attacked in this fashion. It's ridiculous, it's unfair, it's irrelevant, and it's as predictable as the events in a Road Runner cartoon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:17 PM But even the ones who did serve in a war will be attacked if it serves the Republicans' agenda to do so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:18 PM I guess. I forgot to say, being a soccer mom may work against her with people in poverty/low income area, both rural and urban. There can be resentment towards what is seen as and elite/chic sport. As least that's the way it has been where we have lived both back East and out West. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:43 PM Gov. Sarah Palin's church is promoting a conference that promises to convert gays into heterosexuals through the power of prayer.
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Claymore Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:47 PM CarolC: Are you inferring that only African-Americans smoke crack? You are offically now at odds with the NAACP and the US Sentencing committee. Incidently the Washington Post biographical article of Obama (August 24, Special Insert pages A21-28) discusses Obamas drug use and quotes one of his long-time friends "We did a lot of dope, if he hadn't of written about it (Obamas book) it would have been a disaster". And if you were referring to Kerry as a war hero, please encourage him to sign his SF (Standard Form) 180 so we can finally find out who put him in for his Silver Star and three purple hearts in a total of ninty days in country... Little Hawk: As I recall, the Alaskan trooper who is in embroiled in the Palin affair was found guilty of shooting a moose from his cruiser and then (horrors) using his wifes hunting license to tag it. Do not shoot from a car; that moose could be on a leash in someones yard. And no, as I posted on a comment on Clinton some 9 years ago, I do not believe military service qualifies anyone for or against the presidency. But as Richard Pryor once said " People get out of your way when your face is on fire". |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:47 PM Bush, Cheney give Palin thumbs-up 1 hour ago ROME (AP) — There's nothing stopping Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin from serving well in the White House, according to the men who now hold the nation's highest offices. "She's had executive experience, and that's what it takes to be a capable person in here in Washington, D.C. in the executive branch," President Bush said in an interview to air Tuesdsay on Fox News Channel's "Fox and Friends." "John McCain made an inspired pick," Bush added. Meanwhile, Vice President Dick Cheney told reporters in Rome on Monday that he "loved" Palin's speech to the Republican National Convention, which he watched "with great interest." Cheney laughed when he recounted her line about the difference between hockey moms and pit bulls being a coat of lipstick. "I thought her appearance at the convention was superb," Cheney said. Asked whether he thought Palin could handle the No. 2 job under a president John McCain, he added: "Everybody brings a different set of experiences to the office and also a different kind of understanding with whoever the president is," Cheney said during remarks at the residence of U.S. Ambassador to Italy Ronald P. Spogli. "Each administration is different. And there's no reason why Sarah Palin can't be a successful vice president in a McCain administration," he added. Such a White House, he said, "won't look exactly like the Bush administration or the first Bush administration, the Ford administration. It'll be relatively unique to this president and this time that they're in office." |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:48 PM Amos, it doesn't matter what Sarah Palin's church is doing or saying any more than it matters what Obama's church is doing or saying, okay? Not unless you believe in guilt by association. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:51 PM I am inferring that the only reason someone would make an unfounded accusation about Obama using crack would be because he is Black. Nobody makes those kinds of comments about white people. It's a pretty standard racist comment about Black people. I have seen no credible documentation saying that he has used crack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:52 PM Yo, LH, Word on the street is that Obama did try to sign up to becoema fighter pilot back during Nam but they weren't yet takin' 8 year olds... Purdy small minded, I'd say... Ahhhhh, as fir moose huntin', I ain't nevr shot one either but if one comes outta the mountain and get's in the P-Vine's gardens he's gonna get the gun... BTW, we hunt deer in these parts but the weapon of choice is the Nissan Altima... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:55 PM " People get out of your way when your face is on fire". Yeah, I bet they do, Claymore... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 02:58 PM If I found a moose in my backyard menacing the dachshund, Bobert, I would have to resort to drastic measures. I have an old percussion cap muzzle loader here in good operating order. That moose would never know what hit him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Claymore Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:05 PM Gotta go but final comment is that I would recommend to the McCain people that they also take the "First Dude" and have him show up at every NASCAR race and hockey game possible between now and Election day. Obama has a neat jump shot but if he can only throw gutter balls, he won't stand a chance at these events. And Biden will have to steal a whole new speech from Neal Kinnock as those folks think that Delaware is a cheap plastic container... come to think of it... naaah! |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:07 PM L:H: That assumes you could hit him. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:09 PM Now that's the spirit, LH... Now if we can get Amos on board we'll be movin' in the right direction... Seein' as he's one of them left coasters maybe he could shoot the moose with bong hit... Yeah, just walk up to Bullwinkle, take a bong hit and blow the smoke in the mooses's face.... Ain't quite like a burnin' face but what the heck... Ya gotta start somewhere... "Hey" to the dachshound... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:13 PM The crossfire that was aimed at Barack Obama on the basis of his attendance at a church by the Republican media hacks has established this test of American candidates, Little Hawk. We are not discussing logic or law, but PR tactics/ When Hannity started spreading those infamous clips, out of context, and creating all that faklse outrage, he opened Pandora's box. If Palin's church believes it can "pray gays straight" then the chances are good the idea would have some appeal to Palin as well. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:43 PM I'm starting to have an opinion that the Republicans will find that Palin was not a good choice for their VP nominee. While she can energize the Republican base, it will ultimately be far too easy to show that she is an ultra right-wing religious zealot who is in bed with big business, and also a tax/borrow and spend big government politician. I think that, ultimately, this will alienate the majority of swing voters. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Sep 08 - 03:59 PM Man, I'm havin' a hard time keepin' you folks in line here... Now, come on... All together now... Two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar... All for Soccer Mom stand up and holler... Now don'tcha all feel better??? I sho nuff do... Man, I can't wait fir her to show up at that first cabinate meeting with the moose gun... America ain't had this much fun since Andrew Jackson... Maybe they'll start teaching the "Rebel Yell" in schools to take palce of that commie sex education... Hey, I din't need no sex education when I was 16... I just needed sex... Still could use a little, come to think of it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: kendall Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:08 PM "There is nothing more scary than ignorance in action." (Goethe) |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bill D Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM There is flatly no sensible reason for this short-term governor/hockey mom to get this much boost and cause changes in the polls. What it shows is that there are FAR too many people who do not need or want a 'sane' reason....they just want an excuse to ratify their mistake in voting Republican last time. I cannot even joke about it...there is nothing funny about ignorance and silly images driving voter preferences when the stakes are this high. I'd probably better not say much more....I cannot comprehend why the Democrats do not have a 15-20% lead now: and I don't think I want to contemplate the superficiality of the minds who can look at this narrow-minded woman and think that TWO weak candidates add up to one strong one! Y'all have fun..., |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: dick greenhaus Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM Wasn't it Adlai Stevenson who spoke of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory"? The people are beginning to realize that the only way to get rid of a corrupt, misguided, incompetent Republican administration is to vote for another Republican. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:23 PM Well, Amos, I just find it amusing when the self-righteous adopt the same kind of smear tactics used by the very people they despise the most... ;-) But, hey, it's an American election, right? The maintenance of the ruling system depends on dividing your public into two partisan lots of angry people who eternally war with and detest one another, so this is standard fare, right? Any you'd be a wimp or a sap or a sucker not to join in and fling the mud with the rest of 'em, right? Go to it, old pal. ;-) I bet she not only thinks she can pray gays into being straight, but she probably has some even more horrible skeletons in the closet just waiting to be uncovered. Yessiree. Blood drinking. Human sacrifice. Animal abuse. Slavery. Arson. Insurance fraud. Income tax evasion. Cheating on college entrance exams. Faking orgasms. Conspiracy to sell the planet off to extraterrestrial brain-suckers! Child abuse! Ummm...boy! Gonna be a lively September and October, I can see that. Do you see how your whole election process quickly and surely drags you all deeper and deeper into the hole you're already in? You'd be better off just choosing new leadership by lots from a pool of nonpartisan and qualified individuals and having no damn campaign at all. Much better off, in all probability. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:28 PM "You'd be better off just choosing new leadership by lots from a pool of nonpartisan and qualified individuals and having no damn campaign at all. Much better off, in all probability. " A pool is a pool is a pool. Who determines who swims in the pool? Every qualified swimmer can not fit. Everyone keeps knocking the existing model, but I have yet to see a replacement that is not full of worse problems. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Big Mick Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:32 PM 57 days to go ..... and Hockey Mom won't be able to duck the questions for more than about a quarter of that. My prediction from the other thread stands. This bold move/risky gamble will blow up in McOldDude's face. The Sunday morning talking heads are just salivating all over themselves waiting for the moment when they get the chance to pointedly ask the questions, and hold this flash in the pan to her account for her positions. You will all remember this election for a long time...... Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM No, you've yet to see a replacement, period. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:37 PM "No, you've yet to see a replacement, period." with???? |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:48 PM Ron, I'm simply saying that you are taking a certain status quo for granted. It has never been replaced in your lifetime and you've become used to it, but it could be replaced by something considerably better. It's foolish to say that it can't be improved upon or replaced. It's downright asinine to think that it's already better than any other possible alternative. I suggest not taking it for granted. A monkey in a cage cannot truly grasp freedom until he can see beyond the boundaries of the accustomed cage he's living in. But if he's been told all his life that he is free and he doesn't see beyond the cage, then he'll probably believe he's free, won't he? He'll talk about how wonderful it is that he is living free, unlike those other poor monkeys in their cages across the sea. That is the present condition of the American public. Monkeys in a giant cage, patting themselves on the back because they are so "free", believing their own ancient mythology of liberty and freedom, voting for whatever politician mouths those ancient cliches most convincingly and looks the part of the big Daddy/Mommy figure they are longing for to watch over them and keep them safe...from the other bad monkeys across the sea. Sad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:53 PM "I'm simply saying that you are taking a certain status quo for granted. It has never been replaced in your lifetime and you've become used to it, but it could be replaced by something considerably better. It's foolish to say that it can't be improved upon or replaced" I never said it could not be replaced, but I have yet to hear ANYONE come up with a logical idea that makes sense. Your monkey in a cage scenario does not work. Take the cage away and the monkey still has boundaries. A monkey does not live alone. The system we have needs improvements, but it is more than a form of government that needs to be worked on. People need to change and evolve. That requires more than just complaining. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Richard Bridge Date: 08 Sep 08 - 04:56 PM Why would anybody want a replacement period? |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:45 PM VoteVets has sent out this plea (the links won't work, but one can easily go to their website to sign the letter): Dear VoteVets.org Supporter, One the most disturbing developments we at VoteVets.org have seen this week are media outlets reporting details regarding the deployment of Track Palin to Iraq, Governor Sarah Palin's son. In a number of outlets, the details of when and where Track will be in Iraq have been reported. This isn't just a violation of Operational Security (OPSEC), it puts the lives of every troop around him in danger. It's time for the Department of Defense to investigate who is leaking these details to the media. And, we need you to co-sign our letter to the Pentagon to get an investigation underway. CO-SIGN OUR LETTER DEMANDING AN INVESTIGATION HERE We're all proud of every child of a politician who is serving in uniform – Democrat and Republican. And, their parents deserve to be proud. That's not the point. When someone chooses to bolster that story by leaking classified details to the media, it allows the enemy to gain valuable information that allows them to strike at a symbolic target of importance – and all the troops around that target. It's dangerous, it's illegal, and it needs to be investigated. SIGN OUR LETTER HERE, TO STOP LEAKS OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION Whoever is divulging this information to the media should be prosecuted and punished, if found guilty. Whether you're a Democrat, Republican, Independent, or of another party, we should all agree that we cannot accept anyone feeding classified details to the press. Join us in demanding the Pentagon investigate. Sincerely, Jon Soltz Iraq War Veteran Chairman, VoteVets.org And Brandon, Peter, Brian, and the rest of the VoteVets.org team |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:46 PM There will be no replacement for the current US two-party system unless minor parties adopt a willingness to work together in the form of coalitions as they do in other countries. Three or four of the current crop of minor parties working together could exert some real power. Unfortunately, the chances of that happening are damned near nil since the positions of most of those minor parties on most issues are entrenched and uncompromising. They'd rather remain pure, unsullied, and widely ignored than compromise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Sorcha Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:50 PM Mad, yer all mad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Sorcha Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM Can ANY of you IMAGINE just what would happen if 'baby daddy' or anything similar to 'soccer mom' were applied to Obama? The Heavens might fall....and it WOULD be called 'racisim'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 06:57 PM I believe "hockey mom" is a label that Palin applied to herself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:03 PM And as for Governor Palin's "populist appeal", I always get suspicious when someone running for office seems to be saying, "Look at me! I'm just like you!" Well hell, why would I wanna vote for someone just like me? I'm a fuckin' idiot! |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Sorcha Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:13 PM SO what Carole? If Obmama refers to HIMSELF as a 'nigger' does that make it OK for ME to do it? No. It does not. It seems the entire campaign, at least on Mudcat, is now reduced to snide playground insults. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:22 PM Except that Palin used it proudly to describe herself--part of her "I Am AMerica and So Can You" strategy. Except that she had not been a "hockey mom" for years. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:27 PM I was aoccer mom, a martial arts mom, a deliver the morning paper mom. Some of the most rewarding times the kids and I ever spent together. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:32 PM She chose it, Sorcha: Palin – mother of five and U.S. vice-president hopeful, has taken "hockey mom" as her brand. "What's the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?" Palin, Alaska's governor, asked in her speech to the Republican convention. "Lipstick." To read what other hockey moms feel click here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Sorcha Date: 08 Sep 08 - 07:49 PM There is a good pic of a bulldog wearing lipstick here Click to see. As I said, just because SHE said it, is that OK for US to say it? Obama can say 'nigger'. Can I? NO |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:02 PM Oh, for pete's sake. Using the N word comparison is just wrong. For one thing, because he has never used that term to describe himself, and for another, because nobody regards the term "hockey mom" or soccer mom, for that matter, as a pejorative. Some people are really grasping at straws to try to shut people up. Well, too bad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:10 PM But I refused to have the corrective surgery to go along with the name. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Sorcha Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:10 PM Carol...NOBODY uses 'soccer mom' as a perjorative? Where HAVE you been? IT IS a 'slur'..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:10 PM She was using it as a brand of pride, even though it was inaccurate to describe herself that way. She was using it to push a "Gee, I'm American" button, Sorch. And to answer your question, yes, just because she used it to flaunt herself, we can too. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:11 PM I guess I've been listening to my sister who calls herself a soccer mom with pride. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Susu's Hubby Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:12 PM I'm on board. Let's do this thing! McCain/Palin up by 10 according to likely voters. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:13 PM Welcome home, honey. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:14 PM Hubby, you sly old dog. The likely voters were all Republican. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Susu's Hubby Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:20 PM Well they have to make the polls look good somehow! Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:22 PM lol Serious: who do you think WILL win? |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:32 PM I heard that McCain and Soccer Mom were up by 60 points!!! Or was it 70 points??? 80??? 82 points??? But listen, folks... I am very disappointed that this thread has wandered... This was 'sposed to be all about good stuff for Ms. Sarah and some folks is sayin' bad things... Sniff... She ain't that bad, is she??? Hey, books ain't all they are cracked up to be... An' if her daughter wants to have a baby that's fine... And if she fought the "Bridge to Nowhere" from the beginning than that is couageous, ain't it??? And I don't care if Jesus was a community organizer as long as I know that very soon God is coming to kill off all us Beleivers and leave the Earth to the heathens... I mean, give the girl a break, will ya'??? You want me to quit startin' these threads, 'er what??? I can... Then ya'll be sorry... Now say somethin' nice about Sarah... Never know when she might stop in to say "Hey"... Okay, I'll start... She mighty purdy!!! There, ya'll see how'd it's done??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,Peace Date: 08 Sep 08 - 08:43 PM Check barracuda in yer dictionaty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 08 Sep 08 - 09:14 PM Plymouth... 318V8...Unlike Ms. Sarah, butt ugly... Awww, come on, ya'll... Have some fun here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:11 PM ..."By the time Palin became governor, cost estimates for the bridge soared to nearly $400 million. She had three options: pay for the bridge project with state funds, get more federal funding or kill the project. In her statement nixing the project, Palin cited the cost overruns. "She was never really behind this," Stevens said today, reminding reporters of his impassioned defense of the project in 2005: "I defended it in the Senate. She did not support that. She did not support that." ..." Responses from the field: ... Wow. Ted Stevens is not the man Palin wants defending her. He's under indictment for corruption charges and is a political pariah with no credibility. He's also Palin's political benefactor, who brought her into state politics, hooked her up with his lobbyists, and put her in charge of his 527. If the McCain campaign has any sense at all they'll run from this as fast as they can--before the press starts to connect the numerous dots between Palin and Stevens. P... That's what was, in effect, telling Congress: "Thanks, but no thanks" (she was giving them the BIRD, figuratively -- just so no one accuses me of LYING about no fowl was ever sent to Washington D.C. ;) ------------- Great! So she's willing to spend OUR money, but not willing to spend HER money. Yeah, that will really show congress! Keeping the money and spending it so that she could give away all of Alaska's money in the Alaska Permanent Fund (which gave out $1,654 last year under Palin, and had one of its largest one-year increases as well)! Keeping and spending the money anyhow is a REALLY strong statement against wasteful spending, huh? When she uses our tax money to bribe her way to high approval ratings, the public will really take notice! ... Ok. Now McCain-Palin have indicted criminals defending them. That's what they need. ...Smith: You do realize that all TRUE Christians believe in "end times are coming" and the Rapture, right? Joe: Maybe. ... ""We ought to do away with $24 billion worth, not just one bridge," said Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/politics/17spend.html?_r=1&oref=slogin A little out of sync with his now running mate, but at least McCain was consistent. |
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Subject: Palin is a racist bitch From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:18 PM This first appeared on The Progressive Curmudgeon (sounds like a lot of Mudcatters!) where you may read more about his sources for the following. (WyoWoman sent the link to me. She, and I, ask that you send it out to any others who may be interested.) Alaskans Speak (In A Frightened Whisper): Palin Is "Racist, Sexist, Vindictive, And Mean" September 5, 2008 "So Sambo beat the bitch!" This is how Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin described Barack Obama's win over Hillary Clinton to political colleagues in a restaurant a few days after Obama locked up the Democratic Party presidential nomination. According to Lucille, the waitress serving her table at the time and who asked that her last name not be used, Gov. Palin was eating lunch with five or six people when the subject of the Democrat's primary battle came up. The governor, seemingly not caring that people at nearby tables would likely hear her, uttered the slur and then laughed loudly as her meal mates joined in appreciatively. "It was kind of disgusting," Lucille, who is part Aboriginal, said in a phone interview after admitting that she is frightened of being discovered telling folks in the "lower 48" about life near the North Pole. Then, almost with a sigh, she added, "But that's just Alaska." Racial and ethnic slurs may be "just Alaska" and, clearly, they are common, everyday chatter for Palin. Besides insulting Obama with a Step-N'-Fetch-It, "darkie musical" swipe, people who know her say she refers regularly to Alaska's Aboriginal people as "Arctic Arabs" – how efficient, lumping two apparently undesirable groups into one ugly description – as well as the more colourful "mukluks" along with the totally unimaginative "f**king Eskimo's," according to a number of Alaskans and Wasillians interviewed for this article. But being openly racist is only the tip of the Palin iceberg. According to Alaskans interviewed for this article, she is also vindictive and mean. We're talking Rove mean and Nixon vindictive. No wonder the vast sea of white, cheering faces at the Republican Convention went wild for Sarah: They adore the type, it's in their genetic code. So much for McCain's pledge of a "high road" campaign; Palin is incapable of being part of one. Tough Getting People Who Know Her to Talk It's not easy getting people in the 49th state to speak critically about Palin – especially people in Wasilla, where she was mayor. For one thing, with every journalist in the world calling, phone lines into Alaska have been mostly jammed since Friday; as often as not, a recording told me that "all circuits are busy" or numbers just wouldn't ring. I should think a state that's been made richer than God by oil could afford telephone lines and cell towers for everyone. On a more practical level, many people in Alaska, and particularly Wasilla, are reluctant to speak or be quoted by name because they're afraid of her as well as the state Republican Party machine. Apparently, the power elite are as mean as the winters. "The GOP is kind of like organized crime up here," an insurance agent in Anchorage who knows the Palin family, explained. "It's corrupt and arrogant. They're all rich because they do private sweetheart deals with the oil companies, and they can destroy anyone. And they will, if they have to." "Once Palin became mayor," he continued, "She became part of that inner circle." Like most other people interviewed, he didn't want his name used out of fear of retribution. Maybe it's the long winter nights where you don't see the sun for months that makes people feel as if they're under constant danger from "the authorities." As I interviewed residents it began sounding as if living in Alaska controlled by the state Republican Party is like living in the old Soviet Union: See nothing that's happening, say nothing offensive, and the political commissars leave you alone. But speak out and you get disappeared into a gulag north of the Arctic Circle for who-knows-how-long. Alright, that's an exaggeration brought on by my getting too little sleep and building too much anger as I worked this article. But there's ample evidence of Palin's vindictive willingness to destroy people she sees as opponents. Just ask the Wasilla town administrator she hired before firing him because he rebelled against the way Palin demanded he do his job, or the town librarian who refused to hold the book burning Walpurgisnach Mayor Palin demanded. Ironically, Palin was pushed into hiring the administrator by the party poobahs who helped get her elected after she got herself into trouble over a number of precipitous firings which gave rise to a recall campaign. "People who fought her attempt to oust the librarian are on her enemies list to this day," states Anne Kilkenny, a Wasilla resident and one of the few Alaskans willing to speak on-the-record, for attribution, about Palin. In fact, Kilkenny actually circulated an e-mail letter about Palin that was verified and printed by The Nation. For good measure, Palin booted the Wasilla police chief from office because, she told a local newspaper, he "intimidated" her. Running on Extreme Fringe Evangelical Views Sarah Palin drew early attention from state GOP apparatchiks when, during her first mayoral campaign, she ran on an anti-abortion platform. Normally, political parties do not get involved in Alaskan municipal elections because they are nonpartisan. But once word of her extreme fringe evangelical views made its way to Juneau, the state capitol, state Republicans tossed some money behind her campaign. Once in office, Palin set out to build a machine that chewed up anyone who got in her way. The good, Godly Christian turns out to be anything but. "She's doesn't like different opinions and she refuses to compromise," Kilkenny notes. "When she was mayor, she fought ideas that weren't hers. Worse, ideas weren't evaluated on their merits but on the basis of who proposed them." Sound familiar? Palin may well be Dick Cheney's reincarnate. Something else has a familiar Republican ring to it: Her tax policies, and a "refund surpluses but borrow for the future" attitude. According to Kilkenny and others in Wasilla as well as Juneau, Palin reduced progressive property taxes for businesses while mayor and increased a regressive sales tax which even hits necessities such as food. The tax cuts she promoted in her St. Paul speech actually benefited large corporate property owners far more than they benefited residents. Indeed, Kilkenny insists that many Wasilla home owners actually saw their tax bill skyrocket to make up for the shortfall. Two other Wasillian's with whom I spoke said property taxes on their modest, three bedroom homes rose during the Palin regime. To an outsider, it would seem hard to do, but an oil-rich town with zero debt on the day she was inaugurated mayor was left saddled with $22 million of debt by the time she moved away to become governor – especially since nothing was spent on things such as improving the city's infrastructure or building a much-needed sewage treatment plant. So what did Mayor Palin spend the taxpayer's money on, if not fixing streets and scrubbing sewage? For starters, she remodelled her office. Several times over, as a matter of fact. Then Palin spent $1 million on an unnecessary, new park that no one other than the contractors and Palin seemed to want. Next, Sarah doled out more than $15 million of taxpayer money for a sports complex that she shoved through even though the city did not own clear title to the land; now, seven years later, the matter is still in litigation and lawyer fees are said to be close to at least half of the original estimated price of the facility. She also worked hard to get voters approval of a $5.5 million bond proposal for roads that could have been built without borrowing. Anchorage may not be the center of the financial universe but, like good Republicans everywhere, Sarah Palin knows how to please Alaskan bankers and bond dealers. For good measure, she turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Sarah Barracuda En route to the governor's igloo, Palin managed to land what Anne Kilkenny says is the plumb political appointment in the state: Chair of Alaska's Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (OGCC), a $122,400 per year patronage slot with no real authority to do anything other than hold meetings. She took the job despite having no background in energy issues and, as it turned out, not liking the work. "She hated the job," an OGCC staff member who is not authorized to speak with the news media told me. "She hated the hours and she hated what little work there was to do. But she couldn't figure out a way to get out of the thing without offending Gov. Murkowski" and the state Republican Party regulars, some of whom were pissed off they didn't get appointed. But ever the opportunist, Palin quickly concocted a way. First, she waged a campaign with the local news media claiming that the position was overpaid and should be abolished – despite the fact that she lobbied Murkowski hard to get it. Then, mounting what she saw as a white horse, Palin raised a cloud of dust by resigning from the OGCC and riding away with an undeserved reputation as a "reformer." But when a local reporter dared to suggest that the reformer Empress has no clothes, Palin tried to get her fired. "She came at me like I was trying to steal her kids," said the targeted reporter, who now works for an oil company in Anchorage. "I heard she had a wild temper and vicious mean streak but it's nothing like you can imagine until she turns it on you." Not surprising since some of her high school classmates still openly call her "Sarah Barracuda," Kilkenny insists. Still, as a Republican Party hack Palin managed to get herself elected running under the false flag of a "reformer." And what did she bring to the job? No legislative experience other than a city council of a village of 5,000 people, which is smaller than some high schools in Chicago. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; after all, she needed to hire a city administrator to run Wasilla. No executive experience, except for almost being recalled as mayor. A philosophy of setting public policy based on one word: No. And what has she done since winning the job? According to Kilkenny, nothing. Well, nothing other than suggesting the state's multi-multi-million dollar, oil-generated surplus be distributed to residents and finance future state needs by borrowing money. Gee, doesn't that sound precisely what George Bush did with the surplus he inherited from Bill Clinton in 2001 and we all know in what great shape Bush's economic policies left the nation. It may explain why, when asked by reporters, including me, what she thought about Palin being picked to be McCain's running mate, her mother-in-law replied with a sardonic, "What has Sarah done to qualify her to be vice president?" Of course, when the woman – said by many I spoke with to be well-respected in Wasilla – was running to succeed Palin as mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her, so that may explain the family tension. As Governor, Palin gave the legislature no direction and budget guidelines, according to the chair of a legislative committee. But then she staged a huge grandstand play of line-item vetoing countless projects, calling them pork. "They were restored because of public outcry and legislative action," the aide said. "She vetoed them mostly because she had no idea what they were or why they were important." But it was enough to get the McCain, who is mostly unobservant of the world around him anyway, to think Palin has a reputation as being "anti-pork". In fact, Juneau observers note that Palin kept her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork ladled out by indicted Sen. Ted Stevens. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be politically unwise to keep supporting it, these same insiders assert. Then, Palin fell back on her old habits and publicly humiliated him for pork-barrel politics. As for being "ready on day one" to be commander in chief, despite the repeated public claims she's made, the Alaska National Guard commander said that, "she has made no command decisions, other than sending some troops to help fight a few brush fires and march in parades at county fairs." "Sambo Beat the Bitch" "Palin is a conniving, manipulative, a**hole," someone who thinks these are positive traits in a governor told me, summing up Palin's tenure in Alaska state and local politics. "She's a bigot, a racist, and a liar," is the more blunt assessment of Arnold Gerstheimer who lived in Alaska until two years ago and is now a businessman in Idaho. charley-james.jpg"Juneau is a small town; everybody knows everyone else," he adds. "These stories about what she calls blacks and Eskimos, well, anyone not white and good looking actually, were around long before she became a glint in John McCain's rheumy eyes. Why do I know they're true? Because everyone who isn't aboriginal or Indian in Alaska talks that way." "Sambo beat the bitch" may be everyday language up in the bush. Whether it – and the outlook, politics and worldview Palin reflects when she says such things in public – should be part of a presidential campaign is another thing altogether. The comment says as much about McCain as it does about Palin, and it says a lot of things about Americans who overlook such statements (as well as her record) and vote anyway for McCain. by Charley James Friends: This article has been inundated with comments. We are no longer accepting comments. Please see the followup article by reporter Charley James, "Me and Sarah Palin." –Eds. Charley James is an American journalist, author and essayist who lives in Toronto. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:20 PM Beat me to it, KL!! :D Thanks to Wyo for the article. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: pdq Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:23 PM Well a 1967 Barracuda ain't ugly! Especially with the HiPo 340 engine, convertable, 4-speed trans and 4V carb! My dream car, ya Commie! |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:42 PM Boy...you stay away for a few hours and you gotta spend quite a bit of time catching up on all the fun. People can't seem to agree on whether or not "hockey mom" is a pejorative. Some people think it's a badge of pride. Others think it's an insult. Clearly, it all depends on who you been hangin' around with. ;-) But what about these people who insist that you've gotta be offended too if they are offended by something! Sheesh. Talk about mind control. Look...if someone does not feel offended by a word that you feel offended by, you can blather at them all day about how it offends you, but you ain't gonna change them (unless they are the type who are vulnerable to guilt trips). There are some people who are proud of being hockey moms, it seems. There are others who despise hockey moms. And then there are those who just find the whole thing mildly amusing. Put me in group # 3, I guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Emma B Date: 08 Sep 08 - 10:45 PM The LA Progressive reports that Sarah Palin referred to Barack Obama as Sambo, saying "Sambo beat the bitch", in regards to Obama winning the primaries against Hillary Clinton. The article uses a woman with no last name, an unknown restaurant and no supporting witnesses. the Daily Kos picked it up and ran with it. LGF reports that the Kos piece, titled "So Sambo Beat The Bitch' - Sarah Palin...", is now gone, erased, doesn't exist UPDATE at 9/6/08 11:47:08 am: And another Daily Kos hate diary vanishes down the memory hole: Daily Kos: 'So Sambo Beat The Bitch' - Sarah Palin... 'Sorry. I can't seem to find that story' UPDATE at 9/6/08 3:19:53 pm: The Daily Kos administrators better get cracking, because here's another one: Daily Kos: Did Palin call Barack a Sambo and Hillary a Bitch? 'Sorry. I can't seem to find that story' UPDATE at 9/6/08 7:42:36 pm: Another one down the memory hole! Daily Kos: Did Palin call Barack a Sambo and Hillary a Bitch? 'Sorry. I can't seem to find that story' |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Emma B Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:00 PM Palin Rumors 'Updated as of 2008-09-07 0845: This list has grown quite long and I'm finding people referring to the rumors more and more often by number, so I'm going to add all new rumors at the end, so the numbering won't change any more' Charles Martin who has established a clearinghouse for all the existing rumors about Sarah Palin, and any new ones you want to make up see numbers 1-71 here |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: katlaughing Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:00 PM Try following the links I put in to the original author of the article, Emma. The L.A. Progressive had a link to his website, too. That's the "Progressive Curmudgeon" link I included in my post. If you read what he has to say about being a journalist and using anonymous sources and about the people who did talk with him, including some who gave their names, you might get a different take on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:02 PM "Did Palin call Barack a Sambo and Hillary a Bitch?" Who knows? It's the sort of thing that a great many people will say off the record when they think that only their friends are listening. I've heard quite a few people say stuff like that over the years, but they sure wouldn't say it on the record if they were running for office, would they? Not unless they were complete idiots... It seems entirely possible that Palin may have said something like that when she was in a restaurant with a few friends. Really, why would it be that astounding if she did? Why would it even be slightly surprising if she did? Hundreds of thousands of well-dressed and superficially respectable people say stuff like that every day in America. They do. If you don't think so, then you're just living in denial. But did she say it? Well...that's just more speculation is what it is...mainly driven by the intense desire of people who hate her guts to find something they can pin on her. I gather from some of the stories coming out of Alaska that there are more than a few people who hate her guts around there. She's the aggressively ambitious type, a real go-getter, and aggressively ambitious types always make plenty of enemies while they're clawing their way to the top. You'll never know if she said it or not. You'll just wish and hope that she did if you want to see her campaign crash and burn, that's all. That's how people's minds work when they're in a partisan frame of mind. You see, it's equally petty and nasty on either side of the political divide. Expect more such stuff before the circus is over. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:02 PM FARMINGTON HILLS, Mich. -- Sen. Barack Obama delivered an impassioned defense of the Constitution and the rights of terrorism suspects tonight, striking back at one of the biggest applause lines in Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin's speech to the GOP convention. It was in St. Paul last week that Palin drew raucous cheers when she delivered this put-down of Obama: "Al-Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America and he's worried that someone won't read them their rights." Obama had a few problems with that. "First of all, you don't even get to read them their rights until you catch 'em," Obama said here, drawing laughs from 1,500 supporters in a high school gymnasium. "They should spend more time trying to catch Osama bin Laden and we can worry about the next steps later." If the plotters of the Sept. 11 attacks are in the government's sights, Obama went on, they should be targeted and killed. "My position has always been clear: If you've got a terrorist, take him out," Obama said. "Anybody who was involved in 9/11, take 'em out." But Obama, who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for more than a decade, said captured suspects deserve to file writs of habeus corpus. Calling it "the foundation of Anglo-American law," he said the principle "says very simply: If the government grabs you, then you have the right to at least ask, 'Why was I grabbed?' And say, 'Maybe you've got the wrong person.'" The safeguard is essential, Obama continued, "because we don't always have the right person." "We don't always catch the right person," he said. "We may think it's Mohammed the terrorist, but it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president." Obama turned back to Palin's comment, although he said he was not sure whether Palin or Rudy Giuliani said it. "The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting," Obama said, his voice growing louder and the crowd rising to its feet to cheer. "Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years." |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:03 PM 100 |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,Sawzaw Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:28 PM So Little Hawk has a Daschund named Bobert and I have a pit bull named Amos. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Sep 08 - 11:42 PM Wha---???? (Heh!) Look, my dachshund is not named Bobert, okay? But you can call your dog Amos if you want to. Fine with me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:58 AM On the news tonight they referenced that Democrat, Obama supporter bloggers were wildly attacking Palin....an open minded bunch, they are, eh?... |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:19 AM They learned from the Republicans in the last two elections. It ain't nice, but it ain't surprising. Payback is a real sonuvabitch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:43 AM From: Peace Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:19 AM They learned from the Republicans in the last two elections. It ain't nice, but it ain't surprising. Payback is a real sonuvabitch. It seems to me, that this year, it is a measure of how the Obama camp is shaking in their boots, though.....the more they shake, the more his numbers go down, and the Republicats momentum strengthens. Obama's 'celebrity' status, was his strength, but also his Achilles heel. Now Palin is the 'celeb'. In the final analysis, its going to be who they trust, and believe, for whatever reason. Palin's speech at the convention, all but wiped out Obama's 'super stardom' ...which shows you, that people got all fired up over just one speech...or Obama's supporters just weren't all that sold out on him, save his die hards....however, in the independant voters, and the uncommitted, (read:unconvinced, at least at this point), he got walloped...Now the news is reporting that the Dems are hitting on Hillary, to take on Sarah....a political cat fight, I'd call it. Hillary is having to make a delicate decision....this should be very interesting to say the least. Should she take her on, and lose, she's history, and 2012, would be absolutely gone, whereas if she wins, she's a star, vs stay put, and let the Republicats screw themselves up even more, then she'd have a shot. Truly, its all nonsense, at such a critical time in our history, as a nation!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:54 AM I agree with you GfS. I have wondered where the Dems ARE. Haven't heard about them in days--well, since SHE arrived. IMO, your analysis is smack on. I think that Hillary WILL take her on and shred her. Hillary is a sharp cookie and her depth of experience in politics is certainly better and more than Palin's. Palin is being sheltered from the press. Wise decision.She'll need a bomb shelter by the time H gets done with her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:57 AM Problem is...Hillary, with her 'experience' has been wrong too many times. It's all in perception, and right now she is not perceived well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:28 AM Yeah. But she may decide to take care of two problems with one bullet. I buy hope. Gotta go. See you tomorrow. (Well this IS tomorrow, but ya know what I mean.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Emma B Date: 09 Sep 08 - 08:59 AM Urban Legends and Sarah Palin links from The Anchorage Daily News and the Juneau Empire The Anchorage Daily News Nation examines Palin's beliefs http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/518514.html Palin pressured Wasilla librarian http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/515512.html Palin tries new tactic to unload hated jet http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/background/story/203814.html Palin's leadership http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/518451.html Trooper Wooten tells CNN he made mistakes http://www.adn.com/troopergate/story/517685.html Troopergate http://www.adn.com/monegan/ On this link are audio and video clips as well as text. Juneau Empire 9/8/08 Analysis: Nation's image of Palin differs from Alaskans' http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/090808/sta_329827273.shtml Sarah Palin's personal views on abortion issues are anathema to me but even more so is the lynch mob mentality that seems to want to jump on every viral email that purports to have discovered some new salacious 'shock' revelation. This persistence on engaging in the politics of personal character assassination may well backfire by creating feelings of revulsion in those undecided voters who are essential to both campaigns in this close run election |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: katlaughing Date: 09 Sep 08 - 09:55 AM In the end, McCain/Palin will have to talk about real issues and Obama will keep on keeping on and win: In an interview, yesterday, on MSNBC: I mean, this is — this should not be complicated. Here's what it comes down to. Under George Bush's stewardship, with an assist from John McCain and the rest of the Republican Party, the economy is weaker now than it has been in a very long time. Unemployment is higher. Poverty is higher. More people are uninsured. Wages and incomes have flat-lined. Middle class folks who used to feel secure now feel unstable. We've got more homes being lost to foreclosure than at any time since the Great Depression. And John McCain does not have any discernible difference from George Bush when it comes to economic policy. He's got the same economic policy. So if you like what has happened under George Bush's presidency, you should vote for John McCain. If you think that we have to move this country in a fundamentally different direction, then you should vote for me. And that is going to be the case that we make throughout this election, and frankly, that's not the conversation that the McCain campaign wants to have. Rick Davis was very explicit. John McCain's campaign manager said this campaign is not going to be about the issues. That was his assertion. Well, I think that the American people expect it to be about the issues. They deserve it to be about the issues. That's what we're going to keep on pressing in the weeks that will remain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:11 AM Hillary is smart enough not to be side-tracked by little Sarah. She'll keep her eye and her big guns aimed at McCain. It's someone else's job to vet the Alaska gov, and while McCain's camp are not letting her talk to the press until they've taught her how to give the non-answer to hard questions, someone else is going to have to kneecap her. Problem is...Hillary, with her 'experience' has been wrong too many times. It's all in perception, and right now she is not perceived well. Wrong. Just plain wrong. You don't get as far as she got being "not perceived well." You just don't like her. Period. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Ebbie Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:27 AM "Wasn't it Adlai Stevenson who spoke of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory"? The people are beginning to realize that the only way to get rid of a corrupt, misguided, incompetent Republican administration is to vote for another Republican." Dick Greenhaus I agree with you, Dick, but it just occurred to me that the people snatching defeat from the jaws of victory may well be the Republicans. In other words, victory may mean defeat. I > know that Republicans want this country to succeed- they just haven't figured out that their party will take the country to defeat. Gads. The one political option that I really would like this country to adopt is the 'No Confidence' one. Maybe then our citizens would wake up and get involved. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Barry Finn Date: 09 Sep 08 - 10:57 AM Problem is...Hillary, with her 'experience' has been wrong too many times. When has she been wrong, she's just been stonewalled by republicans, that' all. Her health care plan was way ahead of the repub's & they convinced & scared the nation into killing it. 15 yrs later it turns out to have been one of the top issues. She was right & they were wrong Meanwhile, Paleface is under wraps & in hiding until she can be debriefed on the republicans/McBain's aggenda but the learning curve will be to steep & at the 1st debate she'll "flake off" (if they allow her to debate, seeing as they're rejecting already scheduled interviews), she can run but she can't hide, at least not for ever. As it stands now they're trying to remove her feet from her mouth & they're giving serious thought to capping her off at the knees so she'll have at least 2 stumps left over to stand on. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:09 AM Obama supporters "shaking in theior boots"??? Hardly, GtS... Time and the issues are on our side... Playing firt politics, while entertaining to many voters, isn't what the Dems need to be doing... That would represent an about-face in the strategy... There will be four debates that will draw alot of voters who haven't had much opportunity to zero in on the issues as the McCain campaign has been making so much negative noise that people really can't consentrate... But four debates from now this negative noise will at least be centered around issues that the voters understand... Taxes is the biggie... John McCain has been lieing thru his teeth about Obama's tax plan telling *everyone* that Obama will raise their taxes when in reality Obama will be giving a tax break to 95% of the people and raising then taxes only on folks making over $250,000 a year... Yeah, it will be interesting when McCain is confronted in the debates for not telling the truth... I'm kinda lookin' forward to his reaction... If it's anything like when he almost attacked a reporter on his plane then McCain will cook himself... I'm really not sure just what the McCain braintrust has in mind for how he will handle, in essence, being called a liar??? Especially seeing as Obama has him dead to rights on it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 09 Sep 08 - 11:46 AM If you're going to quote Adlai Stevenson, remember his most famous quote.."By the time a man is nominated for President, He's no longer fit for the job"!..Boy, in this election, does that ring true!(on both sides). The Dems(along with MSNBC) have been personally attacking Palin, in her personal life...If this goes to a political cat fight, All the Republicats have to utter, is 'How can Hillary lead a country, if she can't even lead her husband to bed?', and she will be discredited, and the laughing stock of the general public. As I said, before, Hillary attacking Palin is far more dicey that you might think on the surface. Btw, that quote is not mine, but was used before, so don't get your knickers in a twist. Whether you agree, or disagree with Palin, for Hillary to take her on, she would be risking a lot, and I'm sure she will be considering that! |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: PoppaGator Date: 09 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM I think Ms Palin's popularity has already peaked, and has nowhere to go but down. At least, so I hope. I was surprised that McCain selected such a far-right-wing type as running mate. I had agreed with the conventional wisdom that he needed to appeal to the "base" (hard core social conservatives) to win the primaries, but that he should now be moving/leaning toward the center for the general election. Looks for now as though the running-mate's gender (not to mention her youth and cuteness) is trumping, or at least obscuring, her ideological positions. Can this last? I think McCain's chances, in the long run, would have been better served by anointing his buddy Joe Lieberman as VP candidate. That would have strongly underscored his contention that he is able to trsanscend party politics and be the "uniter" we didn't get last time around. Of course, McCain has shown us that he is not so free of partisanship as he'd like us to believe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 08 - 01:04 PM I agrre, P-Gator... She was packaged as this maverick, hockey (soccer) mom sho stood up to this interest and that interest... Problem is that her packaging is very much like an onion and the layers are going to come of one at a time and with each one she is going to lose some support... Right now the McCain camp is trying to get as much of a lead as possible before heading into the debates and hope that they can hold on at the end... Palin is not going to do well against Biden unless the moderators throw it... If it's fair and real, she is toast... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: beardedbruce Date: 09 Sep 08 - 01:18 PM McCain has at least picked someone from the other end of the political spectrum within his party- Obama was the MOST liberal Democrat, and Biden was the third most. I was surprised that Obama selected such a far-left-wing type as running mate. I had agreed with the conventional wisdom that he needed to appeal to the "base" (hard core liberals) to win the primaries, but that he should now be moving/leaning toward the center for the general election. So, we have the choice of a Moderate Republican and a Conservative one, or two far left Liberal Democrats. Vote for the ones that you think will be best for the country- recalling that Congress is ( and has been for two years) under the control of the Democrats. With McCain, Congress will serve to act as a brake on any "extremes" ;, With Obama, there will be NO limit as to what he can do. Just a note: If McCain is elected, and decides to resign one day before the next president takes office, Palin becomes the first woman president. I have to wonder what Hillary thinks about that, since she was reserving that for herself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Sep 08 - 01:47 PM He'd never do that, BB. The greatest fantasy in American life is becoming president. Anyone who aims for that spot and gets there will not surrender it of his own free will, he will only leave when he has no choice left, like Nixon did. A more likely scenario is that McCain (if elected) won't live out his first term for medical reasons, and then Palin will become president. If that were to happen, well....it would be unusual, that's for sure. And Hillary wouldn't like it one bit, of course, but that is a minor thing to consider from other people's point of view. In the meantime, the circus goes on. My, my. What hype! What mudslinging! What amazingly incredible BS. You have to see it happening to believe it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,mg Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:14 PM Well, he should have seen the strong possibility of a woman running as VP..I am sure he took it into account..everyone was bringing up the possibility, with Palin in particular, although no one really expected it. Anyway, his first choice was supposedly Sebelius, who was short on international experience and long on abortion problems. It would be a different ballgame had he picked her (I know some would say Hillary but oh what a mess that would have been)...so you can at least partially attribute some of Biden being chosen to the PUMA threats and every pundit saying oh he can't have another woman besides HIllary. He could have had a woman who was not Hillary. Maybe not Sebelius. Maybe one with more foreign experience. Who knows. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:34 PM Vote for the ones that you think will be best for the country- recalling that Congress is ( and has been for two years) under the control of the Democrats. With McCain, Congress will serve to act as a brake on any "extremes" ;, With Obama, there will be NO limit as to what he can do. BB, you always leave out the important part of the story--the facts. The majority in the House and Senate are too slim for any change to speak of in the last two years. Clinton had the majority with him for a while in the beginning and it didn't go the way you say, and it won't when Obama is elected, either. But maybe Obama will manage to keep them with him, not insult their intelligence as Dubya has done, and he'll get more done through discourse, persuasion, and compromise. It's time to retire Bush's bludgeon. And once again, I will note, that Hillary doesn't need to "go after" Palin in any way, shape, or form--why would people presume that one woman candidate needs to vet or take out the other? They are separated by levels of magnitude, and Hillary is in the top tier through hard work, brains, and stamina. Palin landed nearby through sheer luck (McCain's gamble), and while she may be a pushy and ambitious politician, that doesn't qualify her to pass jail and go directly to the Naval Observatory. She has been a great big fish in a tiny little pond. It's different down here in the contiguous states. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:36 PM And don't forget the soccer / hockey mom is also a wife of a fisherman, who also is a card carrying member of the United Steel workers of Amerika. Man, and this chick could be president of the U.S. !! OMG ... but then again there has been a haberdasher, a clown, a 'B' rate actor, a peanut farmer, so what the hell, what is there to fear!!! and oh yeah, she is also a former mayor of a small town in a very big state that has the less amount of peeple ... now there are arguments gooing around that a mayor is not as important as a community activist, ooops I mean organizer (there is a difference ya know)... but basically ..... is it worth arguing about. Amyway ... just thought I'd throw that in to the quagmire. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 08 - 02:51 PM In reality the Obama strategy is to swat at Palin now and then as one might a pesky fly but keep the cannon aimed at McCain... As for cooperation between an Obama asministartion and Congress I'll predict that should be be elected you will see unprecidented cooperation on his part... One thing that the NcCainites don't want people to internalize about how he works is that, unless it is a crisis, he listens to every possible point of view before making decisions... That is called "thoughtfull"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Ebbie Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:01 PM Here is a new twist. It appears that Palin has learned well from Frank Murkowski. Palin as Reformer "ANCHORAGE - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has billed taxpayers for 312 nights spent in her own home during her first 19 months in office, charging a "per diem" allowance intended to cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business. "The governor also has charged the state for travel expenses to take her children on official out-of-town missions. And her husband, Todd, has billed the state for expenses and a daily allowance for trips he makes on official business for his wife. "Palin, who earns $125,000 a year, claimed and received $16,951 as her allowance, which officials say was permitted because her official "duty station" is Juneau, according to an analysis of her travel documents by The Washington Post." |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM "should be be elected you will see unprecidented cooperation on his part" Which was my point, denied by SRS. "he listens to every possible point of view before making decisions... That is called "thoughtfull"..." Every possible point???? Has he ever listened to the Republicans? McCain has listened ( and voted with!) Democrats before. Looking at Obama's posted voting record ( on Obama's site, as I have referenced before) I do not see any indication that his claims are anything more than words... |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:33 PM The operative word there is "has"... That was when McCain was the maverick he claims to still be... That McCain died a long, long time ago... BTW, bb... As someone pointed out you aren't keeping up with facts... One of folks who Obama has met with and had in depth conversations about foriegn policy is none other than Colin Powell who last I heard was a Repub??? But even his style is different... When both he and McCain appeared with Rev Warren at Saddleback, it was McCain who was interupting Warren's questions before Warren finuished them with quick fire, fist pounding responses... That is not thoughtful... That is reactionary... Yo, Eb, That link ain't workin' fir me... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:44 PM Ebbie, I read that article yesterday and she was within her rights and within the law to use that expense money the way she did. Even when it involved taking her husband and kid(s ?). |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM BB, you got called on your form of argument, using the old saw of "congress will do everything Obama wants once he's elected" as a scare tactic--suggesting that all sorts of far-flung liberal antics are in store. It doesn't work that way (alas). Sarah Palin has billed taxpayers for 312 nights spent in her own home . . . Keep digging, folks! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Ebbie Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:56 PM Try This One From what I understand, Peace, the practice started with Murkowski, just about the most unpopular governor could have. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 09 Sep 08 - 03:57 PM Thanks, Ebbie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:05 PM The state paid for three nights in a $707-a-day hotel room. :-0 |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:05 PM So, SRS, you are saying that Bobert is lying when he says "As for cooperation between an Obama asministartion and Congress I'll predict that should be be elected you will see unprecidented cooperation on his part.." |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:10 PM Wow!!! That's a lot of dough!!! The amount that shr husband and kids got is probably more than the state's average family income... Okay, it might be legal in Alaska and if it is then somethin' smells real fishy with their laws... No matter, legal or notm a straight talkin' maverick wouldn't have taken the taxpayers money for doing a job fir which she was allready being paid to do... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:11 PM "in a $707-a-day hotel room" Is that what she paid? The hotel I last stayed at had a sign saying the room was $350 a night- yet I only had to pay $98 and change ( plus tax, of course. Can you substantiate this number? ($707) |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Emma B Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM David Bernstein, professor at the George Mason University School of Law also looks at The New Washington Post "Expose" on Palin: 'You have to read the article carefully to figure this out, but what the story ultimately reveals is that Palin (a) billed the state for most expenses allowed by law, including per diem when she stayed in her own home (her "duty station" was the state capitol of Juneau) in Wasilla; (b) didn't bill the state for other expenses, when she could have done so lawfully, such as per diems for her children; and (c) spent a lot less money on expenses than did her predecessor, especially on travel and by ridding herself of the state's personal chef. [FWIW, she apparently maintained two residences, the governor's mansion in Juneau, which by state law is her official work "base" and where assumedly she didn't get a per diem (but where her predecessor had a personal chef whom she let go), and Wasilla, from where she commuted to Anchorage for work when the legislature wasn't in session. Saintly to take the per diem she was legally entitled to when in the second residence? No. Worthy of the lead headline on Washingtonpost.com? Please! Not illegal, not unethical, and not a scandal! Meanwhile, I have to wonder whether the Post has several reporters looking over Joe Biden's expense reports. Does he bill the government for his daily roundtrip to Delaware? How many "fact-finding missions" has he participated in annually during his Senate career? Inquiring minds want to know? UPDATE: The Post doesn't do the math for us, but the total per diem claimed was $16,951 divided divided by 312 days, or $54.33 per day (the per diem is $60, so there were some partial days). Also, the article headline, "Palin Billed State for Nights Spent at Home," and some related content, is very misleading. A glance at the expense report reproduced on the Post's website makes it clear that she requested per diem for her daily expenses, but not for lodging, and that she apparently wrote "lodging--own home" only to explain why she wasn't requesting hotel expenses. One almost wonders whether the author of the story understands what a "per diem" is; the story notes that Palin rarely charged the state for meals when in Wasilla and Anchorage, but of course she didn't, because she instead just asked for the per diem!' Look at her policies and argue on those - not on these maufactured 'scandals' that simply don't hold up to any scrutiny |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:44 PM http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26616212 "One event was in New York City in October 2007, when Bristol accompanied the governor to Newsweek's third annual Women and Leadership Conference, toured the New York Stock Exchange, and met local officials and business executives. The state paid for three nights in a $707-a-day hotel room." |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:46 PM Since they're getting their figures from Palin's expense reports, I think it's safe to say the room cost $707 a day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:53 PM Biden isn't trying to create an image of himself as a cost-cutting reformer. Palin is, so her finances are relevant in a way that Biden's are not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 09 Sep 08 - 04:58 PM No. 1. There is no indication that they had the actual forms, just totals. 2. A hotel can say it charges anything: The question is what was charged to the per diem. When I traval, it is often to hotels that charge $300-500 PER ROOM- But I pay only the authorized government rate ( $149 - $200 , usually) when I am on a government contract. If I chose to pay more, I have to pay it myself - only the allowable amount can be reimbursed. Until the ACTUAL charge is shown ( from the receipts that the state has) it is incorrect to assume that she paid that amount, or that she was reimbursed for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:00 PM "...OLBERMANN: This is more about campaign tactics to start with rather than issues. But it seems sometimes like tactics have replaced issues altogether. "He fights pork barrel spending," said this new McCain/Palin ad, "she stopped the 'Bridge to Nowhere.'" I mean, it sounds a little like "Remington Steele," but I'm confused otherwise. As late as October of 2006, Mrs. Palin insisted to voters in Alaska that not only would she defend that infamous bridge, but she also said — and here's the quote — "She would not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative." What are Sen. McCain and Governor Palin doing in this new commercial, do you think? OBAMA: They're not telling the truth. You know, I mean, it's —I think we've all gotten accustomed to being able to spin things in politics. But when you've got somebody who was for a project being presented as being against it, then that, you know, stretches the bounds of spin into new areas. And you know, as far as John McCain is concerned, you know, I think that Sen. McCain has, on occasion, broken with his party, but this notion that, as he said at his convention, that he would tell the lobbyists that they're not going to be running Washington anymore, who is he going to tell, his campaign chairman, Charlie Black, his campaign manager, Rick Davis, two of the largest corporate lobbyists in Washington with client lists that extend into every major industry?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:01 PM boeing makes the 707. Ask Boeing . . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Donuel Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:02 PM Great Union song emma Maybe its better not to dig too deep http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/PalintoddJohn.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Ebbie Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM Color me naive. I was not aware that a governor can take family members along on official junkets on the government dime. In Alaska, both on the state and the federal level, if a spouse trails along with a worker, the spouse pays his/her own way. A friend of mine is a lawyer for NOAA |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Ebbie Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:07 PM Well, my fingers stumbled and the post just took off. As I was saying, my friend is a lawyer for NOAA, the ocean monitor, and when she was sent to Norway and another time to southern Florida, they had to pay her husband's way. In state, that is also the norm. Maybe if you're high enough on the pole, taking family members along is one of the perks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Peace Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:19 PM I read that in the article I think. Read it in some article anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Donuel Date: 09 Sep 08 - 05:19 PM Amos, This is how Palin is being prepped for the debate: She is not cramming years of foreign policy knowledge into her head in 3 weeks, rather she being given rhetoric to shame Biden for asking her anything. She will make the claim that her expertise is in energy supplies which is what America needs now and not some cowardly talks with Iran. If you know the Biden people they should be alerted so they can make some antibodies. Its the same technique as condemning anyone who merely had questions about the greatest american patriot of all time "ta da" The honorable 10 star General Petraous! (its not like he was even well known like McArthur) In short the Palin people hope to score by calling Biden silly and insulting and pointing out that he is not putting the country first but himself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Sorcha Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:01 PM Don, you know this HOW? Are you inside the Palin org? Get secret messages from them about how she is being 'prepped'? Inquiring minds need to know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,murrbob Date: 09 Sep 08 - 06:18 PM Just what the country needs -- another anti-science, pro-creationism, anti-gay bigot. I'm getting ready to come to Canada, or Scotland, or -- hell, anywhere that intelignece rules. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 09 Sep 08 - 08:43 PM From The Progress Report Lies To Nowhere On August 29, when Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) introduced Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) as his running mate, he touted her as "someone who's stopped government from wasting taxpayers' money." Following McCain on the stage, Palin claimed that she "told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that Bridge to Nowhere." "If our state wanted a bridge, I said we'd build it ourselves," said Palin. Since her debut on the national stage, the McCain campaign and its surrogates have reiterated this claim at least 19 times, even featuring it in a new TV ad. But the problem is that Palin's claim to be the the great bridge killer doesn't stand up to scrutiny. As The New Republic's Brad Plumer first noted, Palin "was fine with the bridge in principle, never had a problem with the earmarks, bristled at all the mockery, and only gave up on the project when it was clear that federal support wasn't forthcoming." "We need to come to the defense of Southeast Alaska when proposals are on the table like the bridge," Palin said in August 2006, "and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative." In fact, not only did Palin support the project while running for governor in 2006, but when she finally redirected funds away from the bridge, she lamented the fact that Congress had "little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island." Afterwards, Palin "did not return the federal money. She just allocated it elsewhere." RUNNING FOR THE BRIDGE: As the Associated Press wrote recently, "Palin was for the infamous bridge to nowhere before she was against it." In September 2006, while campaigning in the city that would benefit from the bridge, Palin spoke in favor of the bridge. "The money that's been appropriated for the project, it should remain available for a link," said Palin, according to the Ketchikan Daily News. "I think we're going to make a good team as we progress that bridge project." She also told the residents that "she felt their pain when politicians called them 'nowhere.'" In fact, Palin was so supportive, that she was even photographed displaying a pro-bridge t-shirt that proclaimed, "Nowhere, Alaska 99901." Asked by the Anchorage Daily News in Oct. 2006 if she would "continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges," Palin replied, "Yes," adding that she "would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now -- while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist." 'A NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT': Funds for the project, which would build "a bridge nearly as long as the Golden Gate Bridge" to connect an island populated by 50 people to the mainland, were appropriated by Alaska's congressional delegation in a 2006 transportation bill. Soon after it gained infamy as the epitome of excessive pork-barrel spending. In October 2005, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) tried to "redirect the money" to a bridge damaged by Hurricane Katrina, but following Sen. Ted Stevens (R-AK) threat to resign, the Senate kept the project with an 82 to 15 vote. Coburn's failed effort "became a cause celebre on the left and the right." The conservative Heritage Foundation released a paper calling the bridge earmark "a national embarrassment." The Sierra Club issued a statement declaring that "widespread public outrage over such wasteful spending is understandable." A month later, Congress finally relented by killing funding for the bridge and another Alaskan bridge project. In a press conference with Stevens earlier this year, Palin appeared to admit that the political winds made support for some earmarked projects like the Bridge to Nowhere politically untenable, saying she could see "the writing on the wall." OTHER PROJECTS TO NOWHERE: Though the Bridge to Nowhere has been abandoned, Alaska is still using excessive federal funds to build infrastructure projects that only benefit a limited number of citizens. In fact, after Congress removed funding for the Bridge to Nowhere, then-Alaska Gov. Frank Murkowski approved the construction of a $24 million gravel "access" road, known as the Gravina Island Access Highway, that would lead to the nonexistent bridge. In a 2006 gubernatorial debate, Palin was asked whether she supported the earmarked project, or whether she would pledge to cancel it as governor. Rather than responding with "thanks but no thanks" to federal funding for the "access" road, Palin replied that she "wouldn't" cancel the project because she was "not going to stand in the way of progress." To this day, the state of Alaska "is continuing to build a road on Gravina Island to an empty beach where the bridge would have gone -- because federal money for the access road, unlike the bridge money, would have otherwise been returned to the federal government." As CQ recently noted, there is also "a second bridge, more than twice as expensive and just as controversial" as the canceled Bridge to Nowhere, but Palin hasn't tried to kill it. Palin also supports a $375 million "mega-project" known as the "road to nowhere," that connects a town of 2,400 to a town of 870. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 10 Sep 08 - 05:43 AM Oh my gosh!!!Gasp!!...You mean its wrong to deduct your home, if you are using it in the line of your work???..like anyone else who does it, legally.....How naughty!!!..Perhaps the Palin's should think like the Clintons....and rent out rooms in the White House....for cash, and political favors!..........What short memories these 'emotion-cats' have!!! Your "Made for prime time liberal consumption" petty issues, to drag up any quasi dirt, has caused some of you(as planned) to be chasing the distractions, and focusing on them, as if you are the willingly confused, nit pickers, you're programmed to be! Talk about mind control working wonderfully......there you are!!!! Actually I'm ALMOST surprised McCain didn't pick Hillary for HIS running mate!!...and you scratch your butts, and think, 'Huh?..He wouldn't do that,...I don't get it!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 08 - 10:34 AM My grandmother always said, "You can't tell time on someone else's clock." Judgments about people's personal lives are better left unsaid and unrealized. So why then do I think that Sarah Palin would be a terrible vice president? Because I also think that John McCain would be a terrible president. I don't care about how Sarah Palin or John McCain take care of their families. I care about how their policy choices affect my family and millions of other Americans. McCain and Palin get their health insurance paid for by the government (hers in Alaska and his in Washington). Yet they oppose giving the nearly 46 million uninsured Americans the same access to affordable health care. John McCain's kids don't have to worry about paying for college. Yet he has opposed every single education support program to help others. McCain and Palin say they will stand up to oil companies. Yet the only energy policy they support gives millions of dollars in tax breaks to oil companies to do more drilling and he has opposed every piece of federal legislation to explore alternative fuel sources. McCain and Palin say they will revamp how Washington does business. Yet his campaign is filled with lobbyists and she has cooperated with Sen. Ted Stevens in funneling federal money for useless projects in Alaska for years. And McCain and Palin have no solutions for Americans worrying about their jobs in a fragile economy. iReport.com: Is Palin the right choice for you? McCain and Palin want us to leave their families alone. Yet they want to make rules for our families by eliminating our right to make our own choices over abortion, eliminate our access to family planning education or domestic partner benefits, and our freedom from discrimination. They want to control what our kids learn in school about sex and about science. In short, through the policies they promote and the judges they support, they want the government to have more control over our private lives than at any time in history. McCain and Palin now say their campaign is about change, too. Yet the only real change they have proposed is a change from a suit to a skirt in the vice president's office and one man fighting a misplaced war for another in the Oval Office. That seems to me to be the right reason to oppose them in November. It's not the process or the people, it's what they represent. This unconventional choice of a vice presidential nominee by John McCain won't result in a win in November, because McCain and Palin are the wrong choice for the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 08 - 10:55 AM An Anchorage judge three years ago warned Sarah Palin and members of her family to stop "disparaging" the reputation of Alaska State Trooper Michael Wooten, who at the time was undergoing a bitter separation and divorce from Palin's sister Molly. Allegations that Palin, her husband Todd, and at least one top gubernatorial aide continued to vilify Wooten—after Palin became Alaska's governor and pressured state police officials to take action against him—are at the center of "Troopergate," a political and ethical controversy which has embroiled Palin's administration and is currently the subject of an official inquiry by a special investigator hired by the state legislature. Court records obtained by NEWSWEEK show that during the course of divorce hearings three years ago, Judge John Suddock heard testimony from an official of the Alaska State Troopers' union about how Sarah Palin—then a private citizen—and members of her family, including her father and daughter, lodged up to a dozen complaints against Wooten with the state police. The union official told the judge that he had never before been asked to appear as a divorce-case witness, that the union believed family complaints against Wooten were "not job-related," and that Wooten was being "harassed" by Palin and other family members. Court documents show that Judge Suddock was disturbed by the alleged attacks by Palin and her family members on Wooten's behavior and character. "Disparaging will not be tolerated—it is a form of child abuse," the judge told a settlement hearing in October 2005, according to typed notes of the proceedings. The judge added: "Relatives cannot disparage either. If occurs [sic] the parent needs to set boundaries for their relatives." (Newsweek) |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 10 Sep 08 - 11:00 AM BB, your argument skills are so pathetic. Accusations, mis-representations, smears. So, SRS, you are saying that Bobert is lying when he says "As for cooperation between an Obama asministartion and Congress I'll predict that should be be elected you will see unprecidented cooperation on his part.." I didn't say anything about Bobert. You did. You fight your own battles with Bobert. We have different views of the level of congressional cooperation when Obama is elected. No one is calling names except you. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 10 Sep 08 - 12:30 PM God and the Vice-Presidential Candidate By Alexander Schwabe (Der Spegel) Sarah Palin's Pentacostalist past explains a lot about what she says in public, but the McCain campaign wants to play it down. Can a gas pipeline really be a manifestation of God's will? More than once, vice presidential candidate and current governor of Alaska Sarah Palin has shown a habit of investing secular matters with religious meaning. A $30 billion gas pipeline in Alaska was "God's will," the war in Iraq was a "task that is from God." She's argued for creationism to be taught in schools, alongside evolutionary biology, and she'd rather do away with sexual education completely. Now the real reason for Palin's fixation on God -- obscured in official biographies -- has emerged: For more than two decades, she was a practicing Pentecostal. Until 2002 she belonged to the Wasilla Assembly of God, a Pentecostal community in Wasilla, Alaska, the city of 10,000 where Palin also served as mayor. Since leaving the Assembly of God, Palin has attended the non-denominational Wasilla Bible Church. The Pentecostal movement emphasizes "expressions of the Holy Spirit" in the form of "spiritual gifts" such as the ability to speak in tongues, prophesize or heal. Assembly of God members also believe in faith healing and "end times," a massive upheaval that will supposedly herald Jesus' second coming. Tim McGraw, Palin's pastor until 1998, told American broadcaster CNN that the Wasilla Pentecostal community has members who adhere to these beliefs and who speak in tongues, although he has never seen Palin herself in that trance-like state. Caroline Spengler, a member of the Pentecostal community, described the experience as follows: "When the spirit comes on you, you utter things that nobody else can understand ... only God can understand what is coming out of our mouths." The Republican Party, hoping John McCain and Sarah Palin will bring home a win in the November presidential election, has played down this religious background of the 44-year-old mother of five. Through spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton, McCain has freely admitted that Palin is deeply religious. That fact should be well received by conservative American voters, especially in the so-called Bible Belt. At the same time, campaign strategists have been careful not to let their candidate's religious enthusiasm loom too large. Biographies of her online and the McCain campaign itself avoid too much detail about her past. Governor Palin does not consider herself a Pentecostal, is the succinct and official word. McGraw told CNN he could imagine why the Republican Party was trying not to emphasize Palin's Pentecostal leanings: "I think there may be issues of belief that could be misunderstood or played upon by people that don't know." But what is so difficult to understand? Hasn't Palin already gone far too far for her political views not to be seen as a consequence of her beliefs? And can her faith truly be judged only by those who believe the same? McGraw tries to allay these fears. He says he's sure Palin's religious convictions don't influence her political decisions in office. Until recently, though, Palin was returning to her original congregation, where she attended discipleship classes to strengthen her Pentecostal beliefs and to become a better leader, McGraw says. By then she was already mayor of Wasilla. And when Palin returns to the Pentecostal flock, it is by no means only in a personal capacity, but also as a government official. Just this June, Palin attended a graduation ceremony for ministry students at the Wasilla Assembly of God. The governor didn't just offer a few edifying words. Instead, she spoke to these students in Alaska about the war in Iraq. "Pray for our military men and women who are striving do to what is right," said Palin, whose son had voluntarily enlisted to join the U.S. army and be deployed to Iraq. The graduates were encouraged to pray "for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for -- that there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan." Palin acts as though all political decisions emanated directly from a divine resolution -- and as if the Republican understanding of this resolution were the only one that could be correct. On the issue of the gas pipeline as well, Palin linked political and economic business with her personal concept of divine providence, calling on her audience to pray for the controversial planned $30 billion pipeline project. "I think," Palin told the audience at the Wasilla Assembly of God, "God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas pipeline built." And there's more. On August 17, shortly before she entered the wider public spotlight as vice presidential candidate, according to CNN Palin attended an event at her current congregation, the Wasilla Bible Church. One of the preachers there was David Brickner, founder of the "Jews for Jesus" movement. He made clear to the assembled that in his opinion, terrorist attacks in Israel revealed God's judgment on Jews who had not found Christ. "When a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people," according to Brickner, he was unmistakably an instrument of God's judgment. The McCain camp tried to de-emphasize attitudes in Palin's religious circle, making it clear that Brickner's comments didn't reflect the vice presidential candidate's views. Palin, they said, is pro-Israel. Pastor Ed Kalnin, one of the congregation leaders at Palin's former Pentecostal church, comes from the same circle. Four years ago he campaigned against John Kerry, then the Democratic candidate for president. Whoever voted for Kerry, Kalnin told his congregation, wouldn't go to heaven. The Assembly of God later released a statement: They apologized, saying Kalnin had meant it as a joke. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Riginslinger Date: 10 Sep 08 - 01:40 PM It will be nice when we finally get presidential cadidates who aren't addicted to this sort of thing. Rational thinking would be nice for a change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: pdq Date: 11 Sep 08 - 09:53 AM refresh |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 12 Sep 08 - 03:33 AM Hey Amos, The trooper confessed he used a taser on the child....don't tell anyone though....... And could you make your posts more succinct? |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Claymore Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:59 AM This weeks Washington Post OutLook section had an article from a black professor (didn't get name or affiliation) in which he mentioned the idea that blacks would riot if Obama was not elected. The picture topping the article said it all, with Obama going up a plane gang plank with his coat over his stooped shoulders. (I'm sure someone could link it; WP 9/14, first page of Outlook above the fold). While this race will probably turn on the debates, I think that McCain could win this thing, and that the fact (as one pundit put it) "he threw a Hail Mary pass and Palin caught it perfectly, and spiked it in the end zone", will be eventually seen as the cause. I suspect that Obama will be seen as losing an "unlosable race", perhaps by not selecting Hillary (assumming he didn't ask her and she refused). He has been seen lately not as the author of politics of change, but as a standard attack politician, whether goaded or not by the Republicans. Yesterdays WashPost Ad Check calls Obama a liar on his ad that McCain cannot email, which convienently left out the reason that he can't type was that his arms were re-broken by the gooks during John Kerry's congessional testimony in '71. But some where in America there is a sinking feeling in the minds of Democrats, that McCain should be nowhere this close in the polls; that the Bradley effect is still there; and that those 18 million votes for Hillary were not just women (only 57 percent were) and McCain has more that picked up the extra 7 percent of women... She skates, she shoots, she SCORES... |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Amos Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:12 PM Nope. Whil I agree the present fluff-cloud of PR surrounding the RNC bump has that pizazzy flavor to it, the facts on the ground will rule, particularly the fact (if I may call it that) that the McCain Squad really has nothing to offer--no vision, no program, no policy except serpentine adaptation to whatever good idea someone else offers, no reall position. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:28 PM Her approval numbers went down and her disapproval numbers went up yesterday. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Stringsinger Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:28 PM Not according to some polls which shows Palin has dropped ten points from her bubble boost. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: Stringsinger Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:29 PM The Gallup poll has always been conservative in it's bias. It is not reliable. Nor really are any of the other media-driven polls. |
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Subject: RE: BS: President Soccer Mom Surges in Polls.... From: CarolC Date: 17 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM People are probably learning that most of what she says about herself is a lie. And they're also probably learning that her governing style is almost identical to that of Bush and Cheney. |
