BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?

Subject: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:10 AM

Now I know that people truly have lost the plot!   This morning I watched the News, to hear that public sector workers in Ireland are all on strike today, because the Government wants to cut their wages.

When they interviewed some of the public, asking for their opinions, most of them said they thought it was a good idea, because we're all in tough times and we all need to contribute to getting out of them.

Pardon me????????

So let me get this straight. It's OK for the bosses to write themselves huge wage cheques each month, to give themselves bonuses ad infinitum....but their workers, you know, the ones who've made them rich, or who keep the country running, are to have their wages lowered!

WHAT is wrong with everyone?

The same thing is happening over here in England, wages being cut...The Postmen having their wages threatened to be cut back by nearly a third in some cases...our Dustmen too...

Yet the Fat Cats get obese with grossness and no-one bats an eyelid!

Hello out there in Fat Cat Land, but your workers have huge bills to pay, bills that increase almost every month, and most are already struggling. Yet you think that you can cut their wages whilst keeping yours?   

Or do they think that if they cut their salary from £500,000 to £400,000 that they're being really good boys and girls? Well, hell, try living on £15,000 and having it cut back to £12/11/10,000..because I can assure them that the difference in life quality will be huge.

We should all be out on the streets fighting for every worker who's being so unjustly treated, instead of saying "Oh, I think it's a jolly good idea!" Yeesh, the Power of Orwellian Indoctrinisation!

"Let them eat cake!" all over again..

Bring back the Bastille!


Oh...and for those in charge to think on..

....The Irish Firefights, Ambulance Crew, Police, Rescuers etc, have broken their strike for fair pay because......because they're out there, up to their waists in flood water rescuing people and helping them to survive, whilst putting their own lives at risk!

And The Bastards want to cut their wages!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:21 AM

SIGH!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:27 AM

Now, don't you go a-startin' again..John. :0)

My ex-husband has just lost his job, after being forced to reapply for it (crap idea that one is...but it's happening all over the place at present, far more than before)


And my manageress's husband has told that he'll be having his wages cut after Christmas (he works for Torbay Council)....and he'll have to reapply for his job too.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Chris (my manageress) was called to an area meeting the other day. All staff were told they had to bring their own lunch with them, which was the first time this had happened. And this is in a company that is spending millions changing all it's lovely gold hangers to black, because 'they fancy a change'. They also waste millions in booklets to teach their staff what we already know...

The Corruption Up Top has never been as bad as it is now..

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Smedley
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:44 AM

Bring back the Bastille ??

Can we have the guillotine too ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:00 AM

Can you knit ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Smedley
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:05 AM

No, but I'm prepared to leer, jeer and cackle (a good name for a folk trio??).

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:31 AM

I'll do the knitting...although, being left-handed I may get a few people's names wrong....but I could sit beside the Guillotine whispering "Oops, I did it again!" whilst dressed 'Britney Spears like' in my 'Wrong Heads R Us' new brand of clothing.

GREAT name for a band, Smedley! Hopefully, the new members of it are watching this very thread and about to launch themselves into an unsuspecting folk world!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:40 AM

"Liz you give a very sorry description of England. Emigrate. It will be good for you and good for your family. "

Probably be quite good for England too! LOL


Noooo, joking apart though...my country is up Shit Alley at present, but we English are always at our best when under threat.

There are times I'd love to leave it, because I get so frustrated at the way people have given in...but hell, would I miss the castles, the countryside, the history, the beauty, the lakes, the mountains, the National Parks, the woodlands covered in bluebells...

Bloomin' England has me handcuffed to her. She runs through every part of me...and it's why I've turned from a Worrier into a Warrior, because I'm damned if I'm going to sit back and just let her go under....


"We've lost more than we'll ever know round the rocky shores of England"

Would someone PLEASE tell Show of Hands to re-issue and update with a few extra verses 'Cutthroats Crooks and Conmen' because that song is sooooo fitting, and it would go down an absolute storm at the moment...

AND get a professionally filmed performance of it out on Youtube too...

I'd tell 'em myself, but er..............

;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 07:16 AM

I totally agree with you Lizzie about those living in Fat Cat land.

We had a Pay Freeze last December and are expecting the same this year and yet THE BOSS took a 100% Pay Increase.

Bring on the revolution - I want to be in the front-line when these Plutocrats are marched up the steps to the Scaffold or Guillotine

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Michael
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 07:29 AM

"When they interviewed some of the public, asking for their opinions, most of them said they thought it was a good idea, because we're all in tough times and we all need to contribute to getting out of them"

Yes Lizzie but it's 'the public' saying OTHER PEOPLE'S wages should be cut. There are always perfectly good reasons why it's ok for others but not for me.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 08:06 AM

Not sure of the specific situation in the UK but here in the US some employees have chosen to take cross the board pay cuts so that ALL could keep working. This includes some school districts.
Bring your own lunch? Maybe, when times get better, some wise manager will maintain some of the perks cuts and save for a rainy day.
Unfortunately, a company can not run without managers but the lowest of the ranks can suffer cuts, assume more duties and little is lost companywide.
If a company is privately owned the owner(s) can do as they please. I worked for a company where we exceeded annual goals both volume and dollars by 10% but had salary increases and bonuses cut because the owner had bought a custom Mercedes and had to pay for it. I worked on straight commission so it didn't affect me but there were young guys with families who had been counting on huge bonuses - they had earned them.

As to "Yet the Fat Cats get obese with grossness and no-one bats an eyelid!", do yoyu have specifics or are we off and running again on a theme "everyone knows is true because it is repeated over and over"?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 08:17 AM

Huuumm...the initial post says that "public sector workers in Ireland" are having their wages cut because "the bosses write themselves huge wage cheques each month [and] give themselves bonuses ad infinitum". Things must be different in Ireland - in the US, the public sector bosses are also on fixed salaries and hardly write their own checks or give themselves bonuses. When I was a public sector boss, and the employees of our government agency were required to take two week unpaid leaves, the bosses went first - and that saved enough money that the rank-and-filers didn't have to.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:08 AM

Public sector bosses in the UK are also on fixed salaries. Some have a performance bonus built in, but not all.
Who was it said "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story"?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Stu
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:19 AM

Yoo-hoo! This is capitalism at work, and everything's tickety-boo.

You're supposed to be exploited otherwise the system doesn't work, and everyone knows this. Bollocks, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 10:28 AM

We should all be out on the streets fighting for every worker who's being so unjustly treated,

I'm with you all the way on this one.

I think we should have a nationwide general strike. I've tried to push this through my union branch when I was in full-time employment a number of times.

Have you tried putting it through your union branch? That's the way you know, organise. I think you would get a lot of backing.

Let us all know how you get on and when you want us retired to people to come out on strike with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 10:37 AM

When they interviewed some of the public, asking for their opinions, most of them said they thought it was a good idea, because we're all in tough times and we all need to contribute to getting out of them.

Most people I know here in the US have already had pay cuts, and/or lost benefits due to the recession, but have accepted these cuts in the name of helping to keep their companies alive. Their level of tolerance for "public sector"workers striking to protest wage cuts is going to be extremely low. I assume "public sector workers" refers to government employees. In this country, we still view them as being paid by tax revenues collected from the citizenry, and so, public servants. Certainly no better than the rest of us who have lost pay or even our jobs.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 10:41 AM

The unions did for Callahan, remember who we got then!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 10:57 AM

I know - but times were much different then.

As Lizzie points out - we all ought to show some solidarity amongst each other and hit the pavements fighting for every worker who has been mis-treated.

If Lizzie tells us which union branch she belongs to I'll see if the Trades Council in Sheffield will support a resolution.

There is no popint in one person Like Lizzie struggling all by herself. That way lies defeat. A strong trade union might just win it.

No guarantees of course. People may lose their jobs. But since that is happening anyway I think this is a good idea. Fight back!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 11:05 AM

Our company president tookhimself off thepayroll at the worst of the recession, a year ago. The rest of us got clipped ten per cent. Given the number of layoffs going on, I didn't mind the clip, and the company has started rolling it back up as soon as possible--sooner even than was completely prudent--to minimize the pain. Meanwhile we are recovering and have stopped hemorrhaging, and are even slightly profitable.

Groups have to survive, just like people. But it sure is easier when there isn't a layer of protected fat at the top posing as a brain!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 01:16 PM

The next layer is subcutaneous.
Are you sub cute Amos?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:57 PM

"There is no popint in one person Like Lizzie struggling all by herself. That way lies defeat. A strong trade union might just win it."

They can't cut my wages back....I'm on basic minimum as it is! :0)
This is The West Country, Land of Country Life....and no jobs...

"What went wrong?"

I got half the bus riled up the other day, with the Postmen in the back seat getting cheers and support all round for their strike.

Hey, you insinuating that I can't get the Rebellion started all on my own?   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:57 PM

I would way rather take a cut or furloughs etc. than lose my job or have someone else lose their's. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:04 PM

Yes, but that only works if *everyone* takes an equally fair cut.

It also only works if Governments step in to stop gas, electricity, water suppliers and Council Tax charges to be capped, because how, if people are working for less, are they expected to pay higher and higher bills?

It's hardly rocket science.

The amount of money that many businesses waste, totally unnecessarily, is criminal, especially when they're taking money away from the very people who are doing most of the hard work in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:30 PM

Hey, you insinuating that I can't get the Rebellion started all on my own?

No Lizzie I am saying that you can't WIN a rebellion on your own.

We should all be out on the streets fighting for every worker who's being so unjustly treated

Needs organising Lizzie. Lets start by organising a boycott on this shop that's changing it's coat hangers.

Facebook group anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:34 PM

I worked for the US Government as an employee for 25 years, and as a contractor for five years after that because my job was abolished when privatization was in vogue. Privatization "gifted" us with frozen wages and another layer of upper management. That's 30 years of work under the dictatorships of ideological trends and public opinion. It's hard to work efficiently in that kind of situation.

I live in the Sacramento area, so I have many friends who work for the State of California - and the state government is in horrible financial straits. I think it's two Fridays a month that state civil service employees are furloughed right now - the equivalent of a ten percent pay cut. Many state employees my age are enjoying the days off; but younger workers with children, mortgages, and lower wages are really hurting. If they went on strike, I wouldn't blame them.

Elected state officials avoided the furloughs and pay cuts for a while, but Attorney General Jerry Brown approved a 19 percent pay cut for elected officials this week, so it's nice to see the Fat Cats will finally be affected by their own mistakes. The only Fat Cat not affected by the pay cut was Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, because he doesn't take a salary at all - and I applaud him for that.

I'm not convinced that across-the-board cuts are ever a good idea. In thirty years of government service, I went through many times when my salary was frozen or I wasn't allowed to work overtime or to travel, or when I was furloughed. In the long run, most of these measures cost more money than they saved. If an organization is running efficiently, cuts tend to cripple it to the point where it wastes money.

When I was working away from home, I regularly defied orders not to work overtime. Far better to finish the job late Friday or on Saturday, rather than have to drive 300 miles to the worksite the following Monday. So, I'd work until I finished and take the time off on Monday. My time reports may have been fraudulent at times, but the taxpayers got their money's worth - and I got the job done efficiently (and I got the pleasure of sleeping in on Monday morning instead of driving 300 miles). If I had worked in an office under a supervisor, I would not have been able to do that. I was lucky - my managers were a hundred miles away. Employees often work far more efficiently without management looking over their shoulders.

An economic downturn can be an opportunity to make the economy more efficient, but only if cost-saving measures are logical and compassionate. Better to cure the patient with a scalpel, rather than a bludgeon. If you work for government, you're more likely to get the bludgeon.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:44 PM

Yes, but that only works if *everyone* takes an equally fair cut.

You have said before, Lizzie, that sums are not your strong point so I will point the obvious. You said earlier that if the bosses took a cut from £500000 to £400000 and worker went down from £15000 to £12000 it would not be fair. So far so good? Well, £100000 is 20% of £500000 so the bosses, in your scenario, have taken a 20% cut. £3000 also happend to be 20% of £15000 so the workers have taken a 20% cut as well. From your comment above that is perfectly fair yet earlier you say it is not. Which is it?

Cheers

DeG

BTW - I took a 15% cut last March and had to take a week unpaid in April. But I am an independant contractor and the managing director of my own company so I fall in the camp of scummy boos and downtrodden worker all in one!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:47 PM

A trade union is only as strong as it's membership.

the CEO of Essex county Council pulls nearly a quarter million GPB yet she and Lord Hannignfield are on a transformation kick to outsource as much of Council Service as possible.

They claim they will make £3 million savings by 2012. The only way to do this is to outsource the back office staff (Lord H's own admission) . If we are all outsourced to the likes of IBM and other corporate masters, we won't be permitted to belong to unions.

Every week, I check the Jobs at ECC ads and every week, more and more heads of departments and directorate manager posts are being created in restructure after restructure. A bunch of jockeying for position.

It is fucked. I am fucked. My colleagues are fucked. And the service users are gonna be fucked.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:14 PM

a company can not run without managers - true, that's one of jobs that need doing, be there's no reason it should be paid significantly more than other jobs which are just as demanding in different ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 07:06 PM

So a person who has the skills, training, education and know-how to build roads should get paid the same as the person who rakes the asphalt, because asphalt-raking is just as demanding in a different way? Bollocks, as they say.
The fact is asphalt raking, grass mowing, and nut-tightening are tasks in which the investment in training is minimal and the experience required is negligible. They may be more physically demanding than designing an office building, but an architect or draftsman is paid more, because his value is greater in a job market where demand is substantially greater for such a qualified individual. This says nothing about the personal worth or respect due an individual architect or asphalt raker, but only speaks to the comparable value of their services.
A qualified manager should have a skill set above and beyond those possessed by those whom he manages. If he doesn't, there is a name for that: Incompetence.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 07:58 PM

I remember participating in a study that the State of Washington was doing back in the early 80s, when they were trying to establish (or maybe it was to validate - it's been a long time) a comparative worth study to be used to set wage rates. The two occupations they were focusing on were licensed practical nurses (one year of formal [classroom and clinical] education required, life-and-death responsibilities) and heavy equipment [i.e., bulldozer] operator (some practical training and much OJT, potential to do significant physical damage). The conclusion was that it was rather like trying to compare apples and weather balloons, and they went off in another direction.

IMHO - and I've been there - a manager really should be able to do, to supervise and to teach everything that an subordinate does. This isn't always possible, especially in cases of technical skills, but the key function of management is to integrate diversity into cohesion.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:14 AM

Hey, in California, the state was issuing their state employees, IOU's, instead of paychecks for a while!!! True story!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:47 AM

Everybody thinks they can manage, and most people resent and under-rate those who manage them.
Like Dave the Gnome, I too had my own business, and had the pains, expense, and pleasures of employing people.
Taking a holiday meant taking on a temporary driver, often at agency prices. Promoting my best man to run the warehouse, with a commensurate bonus payment.
Only then did I have time to think about paying for a holiday!
The backbone of this country is the millions of small businesse, who get no government help if they fall over, and who's owners often have put up their house, as security at the bank.
If you go bust and claim job seekers allowance, you don't get it, the same goes for sick pay.
Oh how I envied those in cosy regular jobs, sometimes.
Minimum wage! What minimum wage? Try self employment.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:58 AM

"You have said before, Lizzie, that sums are not your strong point so I will point the obvious. You said earlier that if the bosses took a cut from £500000 to £400000 and worker went down from £15000 to £12000 it would not be fair. So far so good? Well, £100000 is 20% of £500000 so the bosses, in your scenario, have taken a 20% cut. £3000 also happend to be 20% of £15000 so the workers have taken a 20% cut as well. From your comment above that is perfectly fair yet earlier you say it is not. Which is it?"


David...if a person is struggling on £15,000 a year, and you know that in this country, the way the cost of living now is, they will be doing exactly that, unless they are in the lucky position of not having any bills to pay...then going down to £12,000 and sometimes far less..is almost impossible.

If a boss is on £500,000 a year, and he takes the same hit, he's still laughing all the way to the bank, (which is laughing too these days)...Hell, even if he had to take a 50% cut he'd still be able to buy a decent house outright, if he had to give up his castle...and have money left to live on quite comfortably.

So, when I speak of everyone taking an 'equally fair' I actually mean that the fat cats at the top realise how bloody lucky they've been all this time, and have the guts to take a huge hit on their salaries....more like 60/70%

My maths may not be too good, but my Soul makes up for it..and it the Fairness of the Soul that I'm talking about.

This recession will be changing the way many people think, as no other recession has ever done before, save that of the 1930s....because we ain't even down the bottom of it yet, despite the fat cats saying it's over.

The only thing that 'over' is the way they've been ripping everyone off for decades, because people are no longer going to put up with it.

People are angry and they're getting angrier, and that's a good thing, because Anger is the antidote to Apathy, and it's Apathy which has got the world into this ridiculous state in the first place.

And Dave...I am not telling you where I work, but I can assure you that Christine, our manageress is very much on the case at the moment, constantly complaining, as are the other shop managers, to those above, who sit on their fat well clothed arses and make idiotic decisions, with no thought for their staff at all.

You may, however, like to write to The National Trust to ask how much their new Staff Training Manuals have cost, because of course, that's being done with the public's money, they being a charity and all...Fiona Reynolds is the lady in charge...Strangely, when I wrote to her, as a customer, she did not return my email with details of costs etc....

I'm sure you'll have better luck though. :0) Thank you for your help.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:34 AM

I am not telling you where I work, but I can assure you that Christine, our manageress is very much on the case at the moment, constantly complaining, as are the other shop managers, to those above, who sit on their fat well clothed arses and make idiotic decisions, with no thought for their staff at all.

A few posts ago you were saying We should all be out on the streets fighting for every worker who's being so unjustly treated,

So you have settled for the manageress being on the case?

Phew! To be honest it would have been a bit hard organising over Xmas.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:43 AM

Management by diktat, where orders are handed down from above, without an explanation of why it has been made, or what it is intended to achieve, is BAD management.
Too often in big companies this is the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:48 AM

"Hey, you insinuating that I can't get the Rebellion started all on my own?

No Lizzie I am saying that you can't WIN a rebellion on your own."


And that, is absolutely correct.

However...I could have got that Rebellion started a few weeks back, but..guess what? Yes, the TV company wouldn't let me 'talk'. They had well over an hour of me ranting (in a controlled manner,folks) about the state this country is in, the injustices going on, the lack of moral and honest behaviour, the dog eat dog situation we're now in.

Oh how I spoke angrily about Torbay Health Authority and my 95 year old mother-in-law not being allowed to have those bath handles..being told she had to stand up and wash as she wasn't deemed 'critical'...and they're bankrupt anyway, so they ain't giving anything out....HOW I raged (politely).......but no, he wouldn't use it, he wouldn't take part in having the guts to stand up and say "ENOUGH!!!!"

And why?

Fear of being taken to court.

The press were exactly that same...

"Oh, I'm sorry, but we can't possibly print that, in case of legal action. We won't print anything that's too, too...well, you know..."

Yet the man who brought his camera round to film me felt exactly the same as I did. He was as angry as I was.....and he agreed with what I was saying.

So, the legal system has forced a silence upon this country, upon many countries, which, in a way, has opened the doors for The Corrupt Ones to take over and do what they've done.

Years back, as I've said before, the Poll Tax was repealed because of one woman. One woman who went on Radio Devon and was ALLOWED to speak her mind, was allowed to sit there and say "This is so WRONG!"....and the rest, is history.   Within days it was on every local BBC radio station, making it to the Big BBC Guys shortly after...and we all DID take to the streets, Dave...Remember? My family did, Nonny in her pushchair too....out onto the streets of Plymouth where the City was brought to a standstill as thousands of people, inspired by ONE woman, finally got angry enough to bring about change.

She would not be allowed to inspire people these days..and THAT is the hard part.   

Our voices have been taken away....

It is time, somehow, to bring them back...

So yes, if your friends in Trade Unions need another voice, send them my way, because this country belonged to my Dad, who went to war for it...but it also belongs to his grandchildren too, as does the rest of the world, and from what I see through my un-rose-tinted-truth-glasses, we are, at present, on a Highway to Hell...brought about by our own Apathy and Cowardice.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 05:53 AM

I am no coward, Dave. You have chosen to not believe most of the words I put on here, chosen to try your utmost to pull them apart, to paint me in as dark a light as you can....

But trust me, the words I put down here are true.

So, I take up your challenge.

Do it.

Get your friends involved.

Get them in here, to PM me and we'll take it from there.....

Get them to get me media space, time, air time, cameras, whatever it takes...

And I am perfectly happy to organise this over Christmas too, because my country and the Crooks who are running it, mean more to me than some arsed up celebration for a huge piss up, instead of a quiet contemplation about the Son of God and all he represented....

So stop bloody whingeing at me...and damn well do IT!

I am my Father's Daughter....and I do not back down nor give up.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:24 AM

I could have got that Rebellion started a few weeks back, but..guess what? Yes, the TV company wouldn't let me 'talk'.

Yes they did........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/8295585.stm

What you mean is Lizzie they wouldn't let you say what you liked. Not the same thing.

Oh, I'm sorry, but we can't possibly print that, in case of legal action.

You wanted to involve the press in a possible libel action and expected them to agree?

Sheesh!!!

Lizzie tell me the name of your trade union branch and the name of the secretary or local contact and I'll get one of the local branches here to twin with yours.

That'll get things started.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:25 AM

instead of a quiet contemplation about the Son of God and all he represented....

And please, do not assume we are all Christians.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:29 AM

Lizzie you are always suggesting that people ought to be getting off their lazy, apolitical arses and starting some moral crusade or other...and now you basically want Dave to organise it for you?? People who lead movements don't wait for other people to find them media attention, or supporters, or anything else - THEY are the ones who "damn well do it."

Take FAF as a very small example. The organisation is now thriving, people are wearing the shirts, we had a presence at the recent AFO conference, artists are using the FAF logo on their new releases, big plans for FAF week next April are underway - it's all good. But we didn't wait for anyone else to do it for us. We just did it. And when we didn't have the skills we needed to do certain things, we went out and found the people who could - we didn't wait for them to come to us.

You were going to start your own folk radio programme and your own festival recently. How are those going?

I would suggest that the "legal reasons" why BBC Devon couldn't broadcast your rant were probably something to do with you not being able to provide any specific evidence for your allegations. Anybody can shout about stuff, and LOTS of people do, which is why the media can't give every single one of them a platform. But if you really want to get sustained media attention for something, you have to build up a dossier of evidence and present it to them. That takes time, and research (not just googling). No one pays you for it. But if you persevere, you'll be successful.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:46 AM

So, when I speak of everyone taking an 'equally fair' I actually mean that the fat cats at the top realise how bloody lucky they've been all this time, and have the guts to take a huge hit on their salaries....more like 60/70%

So why didn't you say that in the first place instead of saying everyone should take an equaly fair cut? What you are talking about is equal distribution of pay and, while it does seem to have it's advantages, the arguments against are completely different from the arguments against what you have been saying. I do wish you wouldn't change arguments mid-stream. I know it's to do with your special 'gift' but it makes you come across as someone who cannot make up their minds and it is very difficult to follow.

I have said before and will say again, if you want to go for equal distribution of wealth try using the well lmade arguments in 'The ragged trousered philantropists' by Robert Tressell. Make sure you read to the end before you do though and see why it could never work.

BTW - If bosses get a 70% cut and workers get a 20% cut what do I get? I am MD of my own company and one of the only 2 workers. Do I add the two together and take a 90% hit? :-)

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 06:51 AM

I work for a very successful heavy engineering company who have projects and clients world wide.

We have a profit share twice per year, good wages, and good holidays. Our working conditions are little short of fab. No complaints at all. And this is a UK company.

Last year we had our profit share because everyone in the company worked hard and earned it. But we went without our annual rise. We chose to support the company not squeeze it 'cos its my right and I know my rights gov'.

Not all companies are the same. Dont tar them all with the same brush. Our directors have hugh responsibilities, and if I was in their position, which I am glad I'm not, I would want to be paid well for carrying that responsibility. I am PA to the MD and the board of Directors and I know the hours they put in, on call 24/7, working late into the night, travelling to the other side of the world at a days notice, and for that they are very well paid and I dont begrudge them one penny.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:17 AM

Yup, fair and loyal companies get fair and loyal staff who all pull together (see the thread on Boots the Chemist for my views on that GW)

"And please, do not assume we are all Christians."

I didn't. Where have I said that? Assumed that? I said that Christmas is not an excuse for a piss up, but actually about the Son of God. Er...if I'm wrong on that one, please correct me,yet again.

You may have chosen to disregard that fact, but I haven't, not because I'm deeply religious, I ain't, but I have a strong faith and respect for those who do have religion. No other religious celebration has been turned into such a fesitval of greed, as Christmas has, with no mention of WHO the festival is really about, save for the churches. Hell, they're not even supposed to sell cards with Mary, Joseph and Jesus on any longer...

Well, sod that for a game of 'Let's Crap all over Christianity!' because the people who've brought Christmas down to what it's become wouldn't DARE do it to any other religion in the same way...

You wanna hold all religions in respect? Fine, then do the same for the religion of this country too, and that is Christianity.

I'm no hypocrite, Dave.....sorry.

Nope, you get your pals to PM me in here, thanks...and we'll take it from there. Or, they can find me via my Myspace page.

It wasn't the 'libel' action I was going to get the TV people involved in, sigh...it was the matter of someone standing up and saying "What the hell is happening to us all, and WHY are we all putting up with this shite!"....except in a far more ladylike manner, with no swearing.

He chose the most beige, bland and boring bit he had to play with...and my respect for him went out the window, because he had the opportunity to do something there...and he threw it away...despite knowing that the time is way overdue for us all to start doing *something*


And a few moments ago I heard, on Radio Devon news that the Banks have been let off the hook from paying back MILLIONS to customers, which they've 'stolen' off them in bank charges over the years...despite a huge campaign being launched, and almost everyone involved with it saying that the banks wouldn't possibly win this one, because they'd been so outrageously corrupt!

"THERE ARE CUTTHROATS, CROOKS AND *CORPORATE CONMEN RUNNING THIS LAND!"

*A slight alteration to Steve Knightley's words there.


Folk Against Facism?

No way. Not when the person running it has accused me, in here, of being racist and xenophobic....and put down the most disgusting lies about me on Facebook. In your dreams, lady!

You want this to happen, Dave...then you do it my way.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:44 AM

I never posted one lie about you on Facebook (though you posted quite a lot of quite nasty, public and damaging lies about me and others in a blog some time ago) - and I accused you of making xenophobic statements because they were.

I don't care whether you, personally, have any regard for FAF, its members or its aims. The point is, we found a core of people who thought the same way about a particular issue within a reasonable geographical proximity of each other, all of whom had skills to bring to the table, and we got off our arses and did something. We spent a hell of a lot of our own time (not to mention money) organising meetings, talking to the press, writing website copy, having merch made, contacting artists, and planning the events and strategy which will take us up to FAF week next year. So far it's been pretty successful. It's a model you might like to think about adopting in your own numerous crusades.


"You want this to happen, Dave...then you do it my way."
In other words, you do it for me. As Uncle Bill famously said, start your own revolution, Lizzie, and cut out the middleman. All this ranting on messageboards gets you nowhere. The revolution is just a t-shirt away...

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:48 AM

You still haven't told us how the festival and the radio show are coming along...can we look forward to Torquay Folk Week this year? Have you got dates? I'd like to put them in my diary.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:55 AM

deG wrote
So why didn't you say that in the first place instead of saying everyone should take an equaly fair cut?

basic literscy in numeracy and ethics would allow you to see that equally fair does not mean 'the same percentage'. Lizzie has explained why hugely different cuts would be equally fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:02 AM

Thank you, Tug.

I'm just waiting for Radio Devon to phone me back, as they're doing a piece on South West Water, who are telling everyone what they're new charges are going to be tomorrow.

We pay 50% higher bills down here...and we're the poorest paid people in the country.

It stinks!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:04 AM

"You want this to happen, Dave...then you do it my way."
In other words, you do it for me. "


Nope. He gets his friends to contact me via here or Myspace and we take it from there.

STOP trying to spin what I say!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:17 AM

And yes, they rang back...and yes, I spoke to them...and yes, I got really emotional, because THAT is how I feel about what has happened to my country!!!

And YES, I got Show of Hands song, Cutthroats Crooks and Conmen in there too....

So do NOT tell me that I'm sitting on my bloody arse getting other people to do things for me, because I am so damned angry at what has happened to my country that I'm about ready to take on the world, if only I could get the bloomin' tears to stop!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:18 AM

why should this be predicated on Dave getting a bunch of people to contact you? Why aren't YOU out contacting THEM? And you also said that if they'll get you the airtime, you'll go on air and do the shouty bit.

Well, here's a secret, Lizzie: anyone can shout. As I said earlier, lots of people do - unfortunately most are ill-informed and misguided, and the media won't take a blind bit of notice, but at least the internet has given them a vent for their rancour. If you really want to make a difference, the graft comes in getting out there and knocking on the doors of the media - BBC, newspapers, etc - writing the press releases, building the websites, developing a sustained campaign of action, and developing a position of credibility through research and evidence which back up the things you claim.

Having the odd tanty may make you feel better in the moment, but it ain't gonna change the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:22 AM

We cross-posted. I didn't realise how upset you were. Lizzie, you clearly do want to make a difference - you're just not sure how to go about it. Am I right?

I don't always agree with you on everything - disagree on most things, in fact - but I can't deny your passion. What about joining a local action group of some sort? It's easier than trying to storm the barracades all on your own...

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:36 AM

You are only part right.

I KNOW how to go about it, I just can't get through 'the system'.....but I will, somehow.

There is only me to storm the barracades, that's the whole point.

People took my voice away on the BBC. The BBC told me to NOT talk about Social Issues, but I see my country falling apart BECAUSE *nobody* is now permitted TO talk about those very issues in public places!

WHY did the BBC do that? Mel, are you reading this?

What the fuck did you all think I was trying to do, when I was trying so desperately to get Show of Hands songs, words OUT THERE????

Did you think I was doing it because I was slobbering all over their photos, as you all tried to make out?????

Or did you really NOT see that I was talking about the integrity, the power within their songs to get such a vital message OUT, and a message that millions would have heard, via the BBC..

YEESH!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:52 AM

He gets his friends to contact me via here or Myspace and we take it from there.

Confess Lizzie, you don't belong to a trade union do you?

What I will do is point some invite some trade union friends towards your writings on a whole variety of subjects and see what they say.

Having read what you write I am sure they will contact you. Of course I can't guarantee anything they might say. I have to tell you they may not all see it your way.

There is only me to storm the barracades, that's the whole point.

Nope lots of us storm barricades. But we do it en masse where appropriate. Sometimes you need a leg over.

And I am perfectly happy to organise this over Christmas too, because my country and the Crooks who are running it, mean more to me than some arsed up celebration for a huge piss up, instead of a quiet contemplation about the Son of God and all he represented....

Nope Lizzie, to me Xmas marks the move from the nights getting darker to the nights getting lighter.

We celebrate this in the traditional way of northern Europeans with an arsed up celebration - and a huge pissup. Fireworks, a bonfire, and overeating. We don't have quiet contemplation about the Son of God because we don't believe in God. The rest follows. I am far too busy contemplating pleasures of the flesh to organise the revolution this Xmas.

Later perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:58 AM

Well, I suppose this issue has at least replaced the championing of poor old undervalued Eddi Reader so it has achieved some good:-)

And, Tug, yes I know that equaly fair does not necessarily equate to equal percentages. You know that. Lizzie knows that but has difficulty putting it across. I was trying to help. To be a paper tiger you need to be able to prepare and present a cohesive and convincing argument. Something that Lizzie has not done so far.

Maybe I can help a little more. Revolutionary politics is a tricky game. We cannot all be Vladimir Lenin or Che Guevara but we should, at very least, be able to inspire others to action and be prepared to join that action as and when it happens. That is not going to happen through a music based web site. It is not going to happen with poorly draughted and thought out ideology. It is not going to happen by passion alone. Get the foundations right and you can then start to build.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 09:06 AM

Oh, Lizzie.

You know, lots of people listen to Show of Hands. You were never going to change the world by ranting about a folkie band on a folkie messageboard. If you genuinely want to make a difference, you need to get away from the computer screen and take real life action.

Although your logic utterly eludes me at times, it's clear that you're an intelligent woman. You are smart enough to know that there are organisations - political, voluntary, etc - who are crying out for impassioned and dedicated people (like you?) to get involved and make a real difference.

Ranting on a messageboard - well, that's all it is, whether it's here or on the BBC. Sound any fury, signifying nothing. But getting on with MAKING CHANGE HAPPEN isn't always about indulging your anger with a tantrum, or being a public champion, or being in the media spotlight - sometimes it's about stuffing envelopes or putting stuff through people's doors. Not preaching to the converted.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:15 AM

"And, Tug, yes I know that equaly fair does not necessarily equate to equal percentages. You know that. Lizzie knows that but has difficulty putting it across. I was trying to help."

Please, don't patronize me. I do not have difficulty in getting my point across at all. I just do not write in the way you wish me to write.

Tough.

I have written more words which have incensed/inspired/infuriated more people than you've had hot dinners, David.

I get my point across very clearly...to those who choose to see.

Thank you.



I gave up 'stuffing envelopes' the day I heard Show of Hands, because they gave me my voice. No-one has (or had) the right to take that away from me...and now, thanks to Bruce, who did more than any other person to give me my voice back, and Joe for listening to him, I have my voice back.

BBC TVs 'Spotlight' (local news) programme have just rung to say they're sending someone round tomorrow to interview me. I expect they'll only use the quiet bits again, but never mind, because it inspired a few people last time round, so hopefully, it'll inspire a few people this time too.

And if anyone from South West Water dares to tell me that I should be really pleased to be paying over £500 a year for water, and that is on the Watersure Help Scheme they do (!!!) PURELY because I live in Devon by some of the most beautiful coastline, I'll have their guts for garters.....because we should all be paying exactly the same rate for our water bills nationally.

I need to get that idea out...that we need to bring a National Scale back for water bills....

Private companies work for profit...and those at the top make big salaries, because we...at the bottom, are paying them, whilst lying awake at night worrying how the hell we're going to pay those bills.

"Is there anything left in England that's not for sale?" (taken from Cutthroats Crooks and Conmen' by Steve Knightley)

Oh, and could someone please post the lyrics to that song, if they have them, as I've not a clue where my CDs are at the moment, probably up in the attic along with loads of other boxes still to be unpacked.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:17 AM

I remember, and I have to admit that this is a bit vague, we had a consultant at a local hospital. When he heard that it was going to be closed he started to scream and shout and, if I remember correctly and I'm open to correction on this, he not only stirred up enough local feeling that the hospital remained open, when it came to elections he became the local MP, because the local people were so impressed they voted for him and not the usual candidates.

Now that shows that one person on their own can make a hugh difference, but as Ruth says, you have to get out there and make yourself known and your voice heard, not sit tapping away on a keyboard.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:24 AM

Lizzie Cornish MP!

Hmmm, that has a certain ring to it doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 10:35 AM

"I need to get that idea out..."

Hmmm...see, I fear that's what this is all about, Lizzie...YOUR perspective, YOUR voice. You. Alone. Self-aggrandisement. That's why, despite the myriad organisations that might need your willing hands and mind, you prefer to rant on Mudcat about the world's injustices, and look for opportunities to be perceived as this wonderful, one-woman crusade.

You know, we had a meeting last week in Sidmouth. It was a call for volunteers to help us at key times in our promotional cycle to distribute posters, leaflets, and undertake other promotional activity - yes, even stuffing envelopes. In fact, there has always been a dedicated group of people there that helps with these activities at key times of the year. Now, I know that you don't live in Sidmouth any more, but in those years that you did and your husband was on the committee, just out out of interest, did you do any of this? You have claimed in the past that your acres of words on the internet somehow helped the festival, but did you actually ever get out and do that simplest of activities, dropping off leaflets and stuffing envelopes? Or had you already given up stuffing envelopes at that stage?

I'm happy to say that I haven't. You do the jobs that need to be done - no matter how mundane - because someone has to.

Again, purely out of interest: have you contacted anyone in the local folk scene about running your festival? Have you checked to see whether there's anything already going on that you could help with, or to find out if there's anyone with knowledge and expereicne of events who might be able to help you get it off the ground? Or is this another of your one-woman crusades that ultimately is really just about attention-seeking, and not putting in the hard graft to make something happen?

See, in this world there are talkers and there are doers. Which side are you on?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,Emma B
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 11:23 AM

Lizzie, I presume from your obvious deep passion about the public sector employees in the Republic of Ireland and other workers you have championed that you ARE a member of a union and attempting in any way, however small, to change the situation otherwise your post would be so much empty talk, hot air and crocodile tears.

I know from your previous posts that you are a full time home educator of a school age child as well as a working mother and a prodigious poster on this forum and numerous other sites therefore I would not expect you to have the time to be as actively involved in your union - Usdaw I presume? - as I was in mine.

I'm sure as a fellow trades unionist who knows that the strength of the membership is in mutual support and collective action Folkiedave is as amused as I am by your rather naughty, teasing absurdly ironic suggestion that you appear as a solo star in front of the TV cameras in the cause of the nation's workforce after all, as those others of us who care deeply about others know this is not about any individual 'glory'.

However, on a more serious note, it would be simple etiquette if, before accepting any fraternal support from 'The People's Republic of South Yorkshire' :), you let him know who your local branch secretary is and what actions you taken so far upon your expressed concerns apart from posting here, have you proposed any useful resolutions for conference for example?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 11:38 AM

Please, don't patronize me.

I am not. I am pretty sure that no-one else saw it that way. But it is far easier to be a victim than to be a leader and martydom has been the chosen route of a lot of people. If it is for you, fine, but make sure you blame the right people. If you try to show that everyone is against you then it should be no surprise when your cause becomes lost in the mire of self pity. If you don't want help, again that is fine. Some people have changed the world by themselves but not many.

When I was young I saw that the world was wrong and tried to change it. A few years later I realised it was too big a task so I tried to change my country and still made no impression. So I tried to change my town with no more sucess. Only a few years ago I realised that the one thing I could improve was myself, so I did. And you know what? My town improved no end. So did the country. And the world was a better place. Funny old thing isn't it? :-)

Good luck in your campaign, although I am sure you will take offence at any such wishes.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 11:41 AM

Oh, sorry, there is one final bit of advice if you choose to take it.

I get my point across very clearly...to those who choose to see.

The object of evangelism is to try and get your point across to people who do not see it. What you say you are good at is preaching to the converted.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:23 PM

I just do not write in the way you wish me to write. Tough. I have written more words which have incensed/inspired/infuriated more people than you've had hot dinners, David.

And there we have it, Lizzie writes to incense, inspire and infuriate people. Well I have seen those who are infuriated and incensed, so I know about two out of three so far. I have seen people who agree with her - but to be honest never noticed anyone who has been inspired. But I suppose two out of three is not a bad strike rate.

BBC TVs 'Spotlight' (local news) programme have just rung to say they're sending someone round tomorrow to interview me. I expect they'll only use the quiet bits again, but never mind, because it inspired a few people last time round, so hopefully, it'll inspire a few people this time too.

When you say they are sending someone around to interview you Lizzie why not let them do that? Instead you have clearly decided what you will say in advance - "they'll only use the quiet bits". What will the noisy bits be? I have a certain amount of media savvy, nothing extensive you know, but one thing I have learnt the media do like to do, they ask the questions, you give them the answers to the questions they have asked. Still you never know I suppose you might inspire them too. Or incense or infuriate I suppose, still you have a two out of three chance.

Incidentally what are they interviewing you about? Water charges? Christmas at Ann Summers? Change from one colour coat hanger to anther colour coat hanger? National Trust Training Manuals? Irish public servants on strike? Fat Cats? Minimum wages? Show of Hands? Reg Meuross? Bruce Murdoch? Seth Lakeman? Dyslexia and how to deal with it? Home Education? Degrees for nurses? Being barred from message boards? All of these? None of these?

So as you say, "a few people were inspired last time round", was there a movement about bath handles for people? More importantly a number of people asked what happened when you ranted on TV last time about Vi and her bath handles etc...

It would be nice if you finished off one of these rants occasionally. That helps to inspire us too you know!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:13 PM

Folkiedave, that was funny!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 04:54 PM

Your words, Dave, say so much more about you, than they do about me.
I will leave them entirely in your possession.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:56 AM

Well, they've just cancelled the interview. Probably because they learnt today that our water bills in Devon are going down by.......wait for it......£3!

Cool, huh?

£3 a year, rising to £6 a year over the next few years.

I'm so excited I can barely think of what to spend my extra £3 on!

Someone send for Show of Hands....immediately! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:54 AM

So you would rather them increase it by £3.00 ?.................

Thought Not

Damned if they do, damned if they dont.


Oh and if you dont need the £3.00, give it to charity.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:55 AM

No, second thoughts, you would probably have preferred them to increase it, then you would have had something else to rant about.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:08 AM

Well, they've just cancelled the interview. Probably because they learnt today that our water bills in Devon are going down by.......wait for it......£3!

Did you not ask why they cancelled? Did they not tell?

Perhaps they are waiting to see what happened to Vi's bath handles.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:33 AM

Who's is Vi, and what did happen to her bath handles.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:55 AM

Sorry Green Wellies did you not know?

Here's the thread to which I am referring.

Unfortunately despite county-wide publicity and a number of requests to Lizzie - we still do not know how this ended, indeed of course it may not have done.

All we know is Lizzie needed to buy some handles and she could have had them fitted for free. Last we heard she was on the telly.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:37 AM

Oh right I get it, Lizzie stopped an old lady from having a bath because of her own principles.

If Vi wants to buy handles for her bath that Vi's business not Lizzies.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:40 AM

"I'm so excited I can barely think of what to spend my extra £3 on!

Someone send for Show of Hands....immediately! :0)"

Why - were you thinking of booking them for Torquay Folk Week? Unfortunately, I believe their festival fee is a bit higher than that... :)

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:02 PM

In fairness GW that's not quite right. But if you have read through the whole thread I am not surprised you don't understand it. I struggled and I wrote some of it!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,Mary Brennan
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:11 PM

The £3 could be put towards new bath handles. I just Googled them - there are millions of threads (and discussion boards) about bath handles. It's a national obsession!

My dad fought in the last war too. He had medals and all sorts of honours. He never talked about it. I've no doubt the same applies to lots of other posters on this board. I would never use his memory in an argument about the state of the country. I think it's distasteful - and would really embarrass him.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:22 PM

You have no knowledge of my Dear Father. He loved this country with every inch of his soul...and he was the kindest, gentlest man, who went against all his peaceful principles to do his part in ensuring that his country and her people, together with the rest of the world, stayed free.

Of course, it was your dad and my Dad's generation who fought so hard for Freedom in General, Freedom of Though and Freedom of Speech.

We, their children, have that very freedom to this day, and it is up to us to decide what to do with it.

Some on this thread have chosen to use it to try their utmost to spin, belittle, twist, humiliate...

Luckily, my Dad left me the most precious gift of all....and that was Love. And his Love, even to this day, still protects me from people who seek to hurt me with their opinions, their words...

My Dad would be hugely proud that his country was still being loved, still being fought for and that some folks were still standing up and shouting out when things are so terribly wrong.

And that's why I'm so proud, and not the slightest bit embarrassed to be My Father's Daughter.....


So, carry on folks.....because I'm protected by a Love that perhaps some of you are not even able to understand....

Use your freedom of speech as you feel it right to do....

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,Mary Brennan
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:22 PM

And you have no knowledge of mine. He was a deeply religious man and I don't know how he managed to reconcile his faith with the fact that he had to kill people. He was very proud, very patriotic and I won't use his memory to make a point.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:33 PM

Brilliant! I wish I could have thought of that one. Once you have changed the argument multiple times to avoid fcing the issues you can always rely on the good old favourites.

All together now...

All you need is love (da da da da daa)
All you need is love (da da da da daa)
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:21 PM

Yup, well about the only thing my Father ever said to me about the war was "It's a terrible thing to kill people, Liz"....and he lived with that horror all his life.

He lived with it, for us....in the hope that life would improve and that people would start being kind to one another.

I don't use my father to 'make a point'....I talk about him because I know exactly how he'd feel about so many things that are going on right now....He was a man of utter honesty and integrity, and this world, this country and the people who run it, be they politicians or Corporate Crooks would horrify him.

So, please, have your own opinions by all means, but do NOT tell me that I am not allowed to talk about my Dearest Dad. It's Dad who brings out my tears, who makes my voice shake with rage and upset about all that's going on right now...and it's my Dad who gives me strength.

Because of him, I am a free person, free to express myself in whatever way I so choose, as are you.

And yes, David.....Love IS all you need, actually....but sadly the world hasn't woken up to that fact yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:26 PM

Tell us about Vi Lizzie, tell us about Vi. Please. Pretty please.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:18 PM

I know you may not think so at times, Lizzie, but we all have Fathers you know:-)

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:25 AM

Yup, well about the only thing my Father ever said to me about the war was "It's a terrible thing to kill people, Liz"....

I don't doubt what your father said for one minute - but I always thought that Lizzie was not your real name.

How come your Dad was calling you the diminutive of a name you invented?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 04:15 AM

Oh fer, f*ck's sake, Dave...grow up, there's a dear.

Go pick your nose or something. Do *anything* but carry on this insane witch hunt of yours.

You'll feel much happier for it, and so will your nose.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 04:55 AM

Lizzie, most of us do have fathers and some of those fathers fought in various wars and saw some horrible things. You can't compare one father's experiences with another.

I too am rather fascinated by the bath handles.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 06:11 AM

I am very fond of Bath Chaps Which are pig's cheeks, which can be brined and cured, or cubed and turned into a deliciou8s stew.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 06:42 AM

I'm actually going to visit in-laws this weekend in Bath , shall I bring handles.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:25 AM

Hayman's butchers in Sidmouth do some lovely Bath Chaps, Giok. And their brawn is not to be sniffed at, either.




As it were.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:49 AM

I bought some brawn a while back, it tasted ... yuck!
How can you tell if brawn is good brawn, and what do you do with it/eat it with?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:54 AM

The butcher when I asked exactly what it was, was almost shifty about evading the question..

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:57 AM

God, I love it.

Spread it on hot toast, that's my advice. Take ot out of the fridge for a bit first. I've also had it as a starter at The Stagg at Titley where they called it pressed pig's head - it was baked and served with caramelised onion puree.

I guess you can tell it's nice if it tastes good - the richer and more savoury the better, really.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 08:02 AM

*Crowsister, the "pressed pig's head" bit answers your question about what it is!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: GUEST,Mike of Hessle
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 08:24 AM

I regularly have Brawn sandwiches with Brown Sauce for my lunch on a Saturday/Sunday - they taste delicious. Having been raised in the 50's with little money coming into the house it was what you ate as Boiled Ham was far too expensive.

We also still enjoy Tripe and Pigs Trotters with vinegar and Ducks (not the waddling sort) - lovely and very cheap. Have gone off the cold fish (unsold portions from the Fish-shop which we were given next day) and then warmed up for dinner.

And we never knew we were poor - sat in candlelight because we had no money for the meter.

I could go on .......

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:07 AM

My Aunt Isabella used to make something called Mock Crab for sandwiches, a recipe left over from the privations of wartime when real crabs, presumably, were interned. Tomatoes, cheese and roughly ground breadcrumbs. Yum yum.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:22 AM

""How can you tell if brawn is good brawn, and what do you do with it/eat it with?""

Good Brawn is an oxymoron CS, and as to how you eat it, the only answer I can give is.....With trepidation, and a clothespeg on your nose.

As a kid I used to have to eat it, back in the post war rationing days, and it is the most Godawful muck.


IMHO, of course.
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 09:25 AM

BTW, does anyone else feel, as I do, that this "let's kick Lizzie" fest has run its course?

It begins to pall

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:03 AM

Mike of Hessle: Ducks = Faggots, yes? I love a good butcher's faggot, me. I always put a trotter in my rabbit stew, if I can get one.

Don, the brawn you had was probably made with eyeballs and everything. I think the process is a bit more refined now. I've not known it to have a strong smell particularly. And it is very tasty.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:14 AM

NORTHUMBRIAN DUCK

Boned shoulder of lamb with knuckle bone left in to form the beak.
Serve on a lake of sugar snap peas.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:22 AM

Take no notice of Ruth Archer. Far from coming from Prudhoe as she might have you believe - she actually is American and there they eat Scrapple.

I'd normally not rely on Wikipedia for the source of my information but in this case personal experience tells me it is reliable.

"Scraps of meat left over from butchering, not used or sold elsewhere, were made into scrapple to avoid waste. Scrapple is best known as a regional American food of the Mid-Atlantic States (Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Maryland)".

Note that phrase "scraps of meat left over from butchering". By this it means that after the (shop/abbatoir/butchers/farm) is shut for the day they go around with a broom and sweep everything up into a pan.

Wikipedia goes on to say:

"Scrapple is typically made of hog offal, such as the head, heart, liver, and other scraps, which are boiled with any bones attached (often the entire head), to make a broth. Fans of scrapple sometimes boast that scrapple contains everything from a pig except the "oink."

First of all those grammarians amongst you will realise that they begin by using the past tense and then switch to the present tense.Believe me the present tense is the operable one, i.e. they still make it.

Now I am sure she won't mind me saying but this came up once before and Ruth Archer made it plain that she found this stuff delicious. Especially when covered in maple syrup. (Those familiar with this area of America will realise they put maple syrup on everything).

And you wonder how she can tell the difference between good and bad brawn?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:28 AM

I find that most American food, has it's roots in Europe anyway. So I assume that accounts for the eclectic tastes of RA.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:29 AM

Sorry Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:00 AM

You can't beat walking round Bury market late on a Saturday, looking for bargain bath handles, knee deep in dead black pudding skins.

Don, look at Joe's comments earlier in the thread. I am pretty sure the rules have been adhered to or the comments would have been deleted. No kicking has been performed. You are perfectly within your rights to post opinions, provided they are not personal attacks, just as we are quite entitled to take them on board, ignore them or take the piss as our fancy strikes us. Feel free to join in.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:00 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 04:15 AM

I think Joe said we were not to indulge in personal insults.

I am sorry you feel unable to address me without resorting to asterixed words. Please don't put the asterixes in to spare my blushes. I worked in industry. But for someone who said she was going to complain to the world about the display in an Anne Summers shop that might weaken your argument you know.

What happened to that by the way? Did the TV/Radio/Local newspaper not come round to here your tale of woe? Trading standards say there was nothing they could do? Mayoral office point it was nothing to do with them?

And do tell us about Vi, we all, including me, keep asking nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:02 AM

It begins to pall

Is that a sort of offal? Or a fish?

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 12:39 PM

Interesting isn't it....how you lot feel that it's OK for you to take any thread of mine off thread, but if I dared to do the same to you, you'd be jumping and down with rage.

I don't do it.

But hey, you guys just continue to show yourselves up to others, because you know something? This does my heart good, for there is no greater evidence for those who've never quite believed what I've had to put up with for years on end than in this thread and Eddi Reader's one.

It's great guys, carry on, by all means, if that's what turns you on.





OK, for anyone who may be interested...here is the rest of the South West Water story.

If you are on a water meter, they'll be increasing your water bill by £3 a year, rising to £6, over 5 years.

If you're NOT on a water meter, then the average rise will be around £250 a year.

Yup, TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY BLOODY POUNDS A YEAR, according to our local paper down here...

So, that's good isn't it?

All fair and fun at South West Water, who are basically trying to financially force everyone into having a meter....and you know why? Because they make one helluva lot more money from water metered houses that have more than one or two people in it...as was told to me, over and over again by their own staff in their customer care department...

But I expect you lot think that's all fine and dandy.

I think it absolutely bloody well stinks to high heaven.......

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:17 PM

Well, Lizzie, if you ever brought any thread to a logical conclusion maybe everyone wouldn't get bored and end up going off on tangents. We still don't know what the outcome was for the bath handles, or the Anne Summers shop, or your water rant to the BBC, or your festival, or your radio programme, or numerous other issues.

The pattern seems to go like this: You get up a head of steam about something. You have a good old rant at someone either in person or down the phone. You come on to Mudcat and report your rant back to the community here, and then go on to state in no uncertain terms all the things you're about to do to change the world so tha tthis thing (whatever it is) doesn't happen again. And then...

Well, that seems to be it, really. You don't ever seem to get beyond the ranting. That's why, to be perfectly frank, it's kind of hard to take you seriously. I suggested to you earlier in this thread a couple of different courses of action you might take to turn your sxcreeching into some thing more than that - how to actually start to make a difference. But you don't really want to do that, I don't think. You don't weant to do the mundane, boring, time-consuming grass-roots activity that is really required to make things happen - you told us you're above stuffing envelopes, for a start. Instead, you seem to think that the world's media ought to be beating a path to your door so that everyone can benefit from your pearls of wisdom.

Well, as I said earlier, a lot of people rant and rage. Too many, in fact, for the media to give each and every one of them a platform. So the media tends to pay attention to people who actually have a track record of getting things done, and who provide real solutions, or particular insights into a problem. In other words, why should they listen to you in particular? You need to get out and do sdome things first. Start a coimmunity action group. But I'll warn you now - you may have to stuff a few envelopes.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:20 PM

Aha!

So I rang South West Water just now...and apparently, it would cost, so I'm told..£840 a year for metered water, to live in this house, or £1,013.00 a year, if I wasn't metered...

She seemed to think this was absolutely hunky dory.

(!!!!!!)

ONE THOUSAND pounds a year for water?????? ARE THEY SERIOUS???

Apparently, the reason that metered people get charged £3 a year more, and unmetered get charged over £250 more a year is because the bad, wicked unmetered people have to pay for people er...having meters...and they have to pay for er....conservation....because they use more water....apparently...

And it's ever so cheap when you have a meter...er..apparently.....despite it costing near on £900!!!!!

I pointed out that in my house in Sidmouth I was paying around £700 a year, up until August this year, in water rates....so how come, if I weren't on the Water Sure Scheme they run, I'd be paying £300 a year more for exactly the same thing, despite living in a house half the size, with one less person in than before?

I'm er...more than a little confused....and more than a little angry too..because who the hell can afford to pay £1,000 a year purely for water?

And....WHY should we??????

The people of The West Country are being held to ransom here..!

She also told me that in London an average cup of water is recycled 10 times over, whilst in Devon it's recycled just once, thus proving how much cleaner our water is down here.   I explained that I lived just outside London for near on 30 years and never had any problems with health issues there from the water, and I used to drink tap water all the time, never bottled..so maybe SWW should start follwoing London's example....

I'm waiting for 'Lucas' to phone me back, who's a supervisor...but I don't think I'm going to get much further. I asked if I could talk to he Chairman, but apparently, that's not permitted...

Gee whizz, I wonder why?

Anyway, I'm waiting for 'Lucas' to ring me now, as he's a supervisor and will probably talk to me in a very serious voice...

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:40 PM

By the way: Dave know perfectly well that Scrapple (or the scrapings off the abbatoir floor, as I fondly like to think of it) is an abomination. Thinking about the texture alone turns my stomach. I expect it's very similar to Don T's feelings about brawn.

Diane: in the East Midlands and Cheshire, I've definitely seen faggots called ducks in butchers' shops. I'm not sure whether it was the Northumbrian lamb thingy that Mike of Hessle was referring to, but as we were on about offal and mostly pig-based products, I think he might have meant faggots.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:06 PM

London water is much purer - it's been filtered through at least 5 kidneys before it reaches us.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:05 PM

Oh, I was just running with the theme of ducks (not the waddling sort) in the general nautical/piscean drift, it being a lot more interesting than the topic (whatever that is). I'm not sure how it leapt from wage cuts to water bills but it's so depressing I don't care.

The recipe for (non waddling) Northumbrian Duck appears in Sophie Grigson, along with the address of a Newcastle butcher who'll do the lamb boning for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:52 PM

But I expect you lot think that's all fine and dandy.

I think it absolutely bloody well stinks to high heaven.......

Why not wait and see what we say?

AS it happens I think the privatisation was a huge mistake and I think that you pay a huge amount for your water (and sewage disposal).

I have the advantage of living in a major industrial city is that we don't have huge water charges - we are cheaper to get water to.

But the main reason I would suggest is that we don't have beaches to keep up to EU standards (minimum) so that tourists come and visit.

Ruth - I am sorry - I could have sworn you were fan of Scrapple. Sincere apologies.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 04:50 PM

Faggots are also known as Savoury Ducks

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:28 PM

Or slavery ducks in Leigh ~(pronounced Leyth).

So is this a cut wages thread or a water rates thread? I'm confused!

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:39 PM

Lost me too................

No answer about Vi though.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:49 PM

"But the main reason I would suggest is that we don't have beaches to keep up to EU standards (minimum) so that tourists come and visit"


HELLO! They are not OUR beaches! They belong to the whole world! WHY has it now become the responsibility of all those people who live in Devon and Cornwall to pay for the beaches down here????   

That's the biggest load of Corporate Bastard Twaddle I ever did hear!

Holy Jumping Water Butts!

We should all be paying exactly the same rate for our water, no matter WHERE we live in this country.

The vast majority of people down here haven't 'chosen' to live here, they were born here...and yet they are now lumbered with the financial responsibility of maintaining the South West Beaches?

It's utter nonesense, as is the rest of the Twaddle they fed me earlier on when I rang them....and 'Lucas' never rang backk either....No surprises there then... :0) But I'll phone them again tomorrow...get to the bottom of this...

Oh..and when I wrote to Ofwat about this fiasco, they came back telling me that the average bill down here was around £400. (!!) I told them to update their figures, then check the average wage down here and match it to the price we pay for water...

Ofwat are the ones who are now going to decide if South West Water can go ahead with these outrageous charges...so more letter writing is due tomorrow....and if anyone would like to also drop them a line, here they are...

Ofwat

Report on Ofwat's decision

And taken from there:

"Families face paying up to £1,000-a-year for their water after industry regulators bowed to press from suppliers.

Ofwat had demanded average household water bills be slashed by 4% to £330 by 2015.

But after a summer of heavy lobbying by industry bigwigs it yesterday accepted a mere 1% cut to £340.

The fact that the firms got off lightly was reflected in an immediate jump in their share prices.

When inflation is added, the actual amount people pay seems certain to rise over the next five years.

The hike will give the water firms an extra £400m towards metering and other urgent improvements. But they claim they still need to invest more than £22bn replacing pipes and sewers, improving drinking water and environmental work.

Among the worst hit will those served by South West Water, already the country's most expensive supplier. It is being allowed to up the average unmetered bill by an astonishing 29% to £935-a-year."

And now, I'll leave you all to talk about ducks, or whatever, but just remember that from now on, if you see water running off a duck's back, catch each and every drop of it, because the Corporate Water Lords now own the very stuff that falls free from the skies and they about to charge many of us £1,000 a year for it.

The BASTARDS!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:53 PM

This is SO f*cking wrong, that I *have* to do *something* to turn this around.......I've never known anything so corrupt as this!

And 'they' are not going to get away with this!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 04:14 AM

And 'they' are not going to get away with this!!!

Yes they are.

so more letter writing is due tomorrow..

You might find this effective.

Now don't say I never help you.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 06:11 AM

No, 'they' are not!

And...thank you.


AND....how long is it before some Corporate Bastard decides to start charging us for the very air that we breathe?????? After all, some parts of the country have cleaner air than others...and people have 'worked hard' to achieve that, so it only follows, in today's Loopy Thinking that the punters should have to pay for that fact...

I mean seriously.....

Did anyone here EVER think that every drop of water we got out of the tap, or flushed down the toilet, would be weighed, measured and charged outrageous amounts for?????


I'm diabetic...and I KNOW that there are the occasional times when I have to drink and drink and drink...and it doesn't matter how many cups of water it takes, the thirst is still there. It's a thirst that I never understood before...your body's way of watering everything down...and before I was diagnosed diabetic I had that thirst a great deal, as do many people...Now my diabetes is under control, so is the thirst, but just very occasionally, it will return...

My friend, who is severely diabetic, used, as a young undiagnosed person, to drink her own bath water because she couldn't get out of it as her thirst was so great...She'd drink from a running tap because a glass didn't hold enough...You almost get to the point of not even bothering if you have to drink out of puddles, so bad can it be at times...

Maybe we should all start drinking from puddles, because at least that's still free.....although I expect South West Water will soon have a Puddle Meter/Charge too....

Maybe the people of Devon and Cornwall should call themselves the Westcountrypuddle Martyrs in union with their Dorset Cousins from Tolpuddle...

The magnificent 'Wallbreaker' by Benji Kirkpatrick

"You can package me, sell me to the proles
you can Find me down in the deepest holes
I am your life, I am all your world
I make it grow, make the leaves unfurl

I run clear from the highest hills
But soon come round when I feel your spills
You throw me junk of which I soon consume
I can divert but I will resume

People pay for me, people fight for me
I've no regard for you at all
You can throw what you like at me
I keep on moving
I can bring down any wall

There are some who walk forty miles a day
And on their heads carry me away
Have to ration, have to make it stretch
Making the most of what they can get

People pay for me, people fight for me
I've no regard for you at all
You can throw what you like at me
I keep on moving
I can bring down any wall

Others turn a tap and I will appear
Seems no need for conservation here
Ready to use or waste at will
Thinking nothing when the glass is spilled

I can destroy in great towering waves
And likewise many lives can save
Some say that wars I will soon incite
For the purest drop people stand and fight

People pay for me, people fight for me
I've no regard for you at all
You can throw what you like at me
I keep on moving
I can bring down any wall

People cry for me, people die for me
I've no regard for you at all
You can fill me with your piles of waste
It leaves a bitter taste
But still my rivers flow and oceans roar

I am alive as the beating heart
*I have been here right from the start"

*(I think that last line may be wrong, as I couldn't quite catch the words, apologies to Benji if it is)

Benji Kirkpatrick's Myspace where 'Wallbreaker' can be heard


And those at South West Water seem as unfeeling as Mother Water herself, because they just keep on raging through people's lives, causing flood of worry, anxiety and unhappiness, causing families to argue over baths, washing, flushing toilets etc....leaving people lying awake at nights trying to work out how they will be able to pay their bills....

"I've no regard for you at all....You can throw what you like at me, I keep on moving..."

The song of those who run South West Water!

They have no beating heart though, just empty ones that love only money, and they don't care what they have to do to get it. Their motives are as crystal clear as their 'product', but their consumers have had their minds muddied up with emotional blackmail..

It's time to clear the heads of The WestCountrypuddle Martyrs, once and for all..

Pick up thy strength of ye people of the Weste Countrye, because we are neede to go into Battle once more!

"God is our guide! from field, from wave, From plough, from anvil, and from loom; We come, our country's rights to save, And speak a tyrant faction's doom: We raise the watch-word liberty; We will, we will, we will be free!" - George Loveless

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 06:16 AM

I need five volunteers, from Dorset, Devon or Cornwall.....

"...In 1832, the year of a Reform Act which extended the vote in England but did not grant universal suffrage, six men from Tolpuddle in Dorset founded the Friendly Society of Agricultural Labourers to protest against the gradual lowering of wages in the 1830s. They refused to work for less than 10 shillings a week, although by this time wages had been reduced to seven shillings a week and were due to be further reduced to six shillings..." (Wiki)

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 06:22 AM

Lizzie,

paying for water is a difficult area and I agree with a lot of what you say about local vs national bills. I'm certainly no great fan of privatization either.

Unfortunately it's not as simple as "corporate water lords owning the very stuff that falls from the skies". The OFWAT determination is very likely to lead to harder working conditions or redundancies for the many workers in the water industry who provide a very safe product, on demand, and take away the waste, and treat it to prevent environmental damage or public health risk. There is, believe me, a huge amount of work involved in doing this, and it's usually those on the front line who suffer when the industry is squeezed. See this press release from the GMB.

I quite agree with you regarding the issue of excessive profits going to a few individuals. It's a massive issue which seems to be getting worse in many industries. But do you think water workers should take a pay cut or lose their jobs to keep water bills down? Compare this with your original post regarding public sector workers in Ireland...

Pete

(who does a mucky job in the water industry and is certainly not a corporate water lord!)

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 06:36 AM

You think you have something to complain about Lizzie?

"A comparison of two retail premises owned by the same business, one in Scotland and one in England, with virtually identical water usage and rateable values, showed that in 2003/2004, the bill in England was £366; in Scotland the bill was £1212" – an increase of 244% in only two years."

Here we are with a much higher average rainfall too !

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 08:09 AM

I'm not sure how it leapt from wage cuts to water bills

It's quite easy. Wage cuts = price of fish. Fish = water. Water = ducks. Ducks = bills. Keep up:-)

"Dad, there's a man with a bill at the door."

"Are you sure it's not a duck in a bowler hat?"

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 08:39 AM

Wasn't the topic of water bills talked to death six months or so ago? My personal opinion hasn't changes at all: if the costs of supplying and cleaning water differ from one location to another, than so should the amount billed to consumers. If the cost of providing 100 gals of water in one location is twice as much as that of providing the same amount of water in another (and this eliminates many other factors), than it is reasonable that those in the first location should pay twice as much. I live in the desert - believe me, I know water isn't a cost-free commodity.

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 08:55 AM

I need five volunteers, from Dorset, Devon or Cornwall.....

I'd be careful with your sense of history on this one. They were transported under squalid conditions to Australia. Handed over to landowners. Forced to work.

Come and Fight For Water. Get Transported Like the Tolpuddle Martys. Not the best of slogans.....

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 09:04 AM

Ha! You must be kidding, Dave! People would be lining up to be transported to Australia these days! :0)

John, what worries me more than that unbelievable price hike is that no-one has taken to the streets over it..that's ridiculous...and immoral.

The Tolpuddle Martyrs stood up against having their wages cut...so they sure as hell belong in this thread...and we got to water because of the way the fat cats now own the very water that we need to survive!

'TOLPUDDLE II'

Coming soon...

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 09:22 AM

People would be lining up to be transported to Australia these days! :0)

Not what I said Lizzie. NB "squalid conditions".

Subject: RE: BS: Ooh, yes please, cut my wages back! ?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 09:25 AM

Oh, you mean they'd be made to fly on EasyJet?

Well, maybe you have a point....