BS: Christmas? A rant

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 06:19 PM

Oh, the fire's burning slow
Now where's that mistletoe
Dear, it's getting kind of hot in here
I need a taste of Christmas cheer
I hope he gets here quick, I need a St. Nick fix
Oooo-eee, I just want him to be all wrapped up for me
Santa's never been this hard to resist
But Santa never used to look like this

He's traded in his reindeer for a limosine
He's wearing purple trousers instead of red and green
This Christmas I want something I never had
Cause Santa's got a brand new bag

Now, I got to got to find out how
To make him want to settle down
I've got a big fat kiss right at the top of my list
So we can build a little candy home
And have a few elves of our own
I want to sneak a peek at my surprise
And see tradition metamorphasize

He's given up the cookies and he's slimming down
He bought a little bungalow in Tinsel Town
This Christmas I want something I never had
Cause Santa's got a brand new bag

As he finds his Zen down on the kitchen floor
He lights a fat Cohiba from his humidor
This Christmas I want something I never had

Cause Santa's got a brand new bag

He's got a Richenbacher and he's bleached his hair
He's rockin to the rythm with a Latin flair
This Christmas I want something I've never had
Cause Santa's got a brand new bag

He's reading Socrates and cooking French cuisine
He's pictured on the front of money magazine
This Christmas I want something I've never had
Cause Santa's got a brand new
Santa's got, Santa's got a brand new bag

"Santa's Got A Brand New Bag" lyrics

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 05:47 PM

It's mostly driven by money, Ref. The mass media in the western world publicize whatever causes people to run out and spend the most money, and that means they will publicize Christmas, not Ramadan or Hanukah. Do they care about the religious or spiritual aspect of Christmas? No! But they do care about how much time people will spend at the mall frantically buying presents and stuff.

Why be so worried about Christianity when it's really just the trimming on the tree? The real religion these days is gross materialism, driven by conspicuous consumption. Consumerism, it's called. They have the gall to label us "consumers". What a dehumanizing term that is.

So what did you choose to do on Buy Nothing Day? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ref
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 05:41 PM

Some of you Mother Theresa worshipers should read Christopher Hitchens on the old girl. Those orphanages and hospitals were hell-holes while she was in charge, and collecting awards and huge sums of money all over the world.

As for Christmas, I love the season, though I abandoned Christianity a long time ago. Most of the traditions, as others have correctly pointed out, come from pre-Christian spiritual practices. As for being offended, You might be offended, too, if you had a belief in another religion and everyone kept assuming you were Christian. Neither Ramadan nor Hannukah is an equivalency to Christmas in their religions. Our (Christians and Christian-heritage people) ability to "ignore" those two celebrations is made a lot easier by the fact that they make so little a dent in media and marketing.

I said years ago that I'd believe the old bigot's saw about Jews controlling the media as soon as I saw "It's Hannukah, Charlie Brown!"

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 11:37 PM

Oh Hell. Let's put the X back in Xmas!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: GUEST,Goose Gander (sweet potato pie on the way)
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 11:28 PM

I have never met a human being who claimed to be offended by Christmas.

But I believe that going on and on about whether anyone is offended by Christmas has become a Christmas tradition in and of itself.

But only if it happens in a Designated Folkish Hand-Wringing Context.

So there.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 08:31 PM

Just relax, and try this recipe....things will look up:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=36128

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 08:29 PM

Several houses in the neighborhood are already lighting up. The sun has gone south, and cloud is frequent; unfortunately sacrifices to bring the sun back seem ineffectual.
A few parties and some single malt do serve to help drive dull care away.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 07:49 PM

I think many people have had an idealized vision of Christmas maybe stemming from Charles Dickens or "It's a Wonderful Life". People who keep preaching about putting Christ back into Christmas probably are not terribly conversant with the bible.

Fortunately, the Yule Season has little to do with religion in spite of the fact that religious people attempted to co-opt the holiday for the promotion of their religious zeal.

I believe in a secular Christmas to be celebrated by anyone who wants to keep the tradition.
The absurdity of the abuse of this practice is highlighted by a Christmas pageant that I saw in Rockport, Mass. in the dead of winter. A camel rebelled against the freezing cold and showed his disdain for the procedure by bawling, loudly.

So put up your lights so that you won't have to burn down any trees to bring the sun back.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:22 PM

We were in Lancaster today; it was sunny, cold and I found Peter Maxwell Davies / Fires of London album in Oxfam (Renaissance & Baroque Realisations), and a 1930s guide to Blackpool Tower & Winter Garden from my favourite antiquarian bookstall; Subway are doing Turkey & Stuffing & cranberry, and as we wandered in the twinkling twilight I was freezing, sneezing & wheezing but I can't remember feeling so Christmassy in my life...

Tomorrow - it's off to Borders to pick over the liquidation sale! Ain't life grand??

Here's a thing - did you know Bernard Summer used to work for Cosgrove and Hall and assisted on the animation for such classics as Chorlton and the Wheelies, the opening titles of Rainbow add Jamie and the Magic Torch. Such wonders!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 02:41 PM

Mentioning "races" of people can equally well be a way of challenging stereotypes.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:56 PM

Er..I mentioned that one Sister was Malaysian, because er...she was..and I could see her pretty face as I wrote...and that the other sister was Irish, because er...she was...

One was a dragon who got things done..and the other was so very sweet and kind to the patients, but no good at organising staff....

There was a Jamaican nurse there too, who was very racist as she only nursed the black kids...I watched her..and was stunned.

The doctor who saved my sight was Indian..Dr. Sethi...a wonderful man for whom I have the greatest respect...and the Complete Bastard who made racist comments to any staff who didn't have white skin was called Mr. Jackson, the surgeon in charge, who I think was probably of English origin...and a real bully if ever I came across one..The male staff nurse (also Indian) used to stand behind him when he was examining my eye, making me laugh, as he'd pull funny faces at me all the time, the naughty man, because he knew Mr. Jackson would tell me off, which made me splutter even more....It was our way of dealing with the prat and his nasty comments.

Neasden Eye Hospital was a real Blue Mink 'Melting Pot' of cultures and colours...and most of the kids, of all cultures and colours were to be found on my bed having stories read to them (with my good eye) and generally having loads of fun.

You gotta a problem wit that, Dave?

Do grow up, there's a dear..

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 11:38 AM

Hey, what a neat idea!
I rather like the inclusivity of 'Midwinter Light Festival' where the Christmas lights go 'hand in hand' with other Midwinter 'Light' festivals, occurring at approximately the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 11:26 AM

Absolutely correct, its loony raving lefties getting offended on behalf of people who don't get offended anyway - usually idiots in local councils.

Actually it's usually right-wing newspapers making the most of some trivial item and getting it wrong.

See this from 2008

And often the same story get repeated over and over again.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 10:56 AM

"It's never Muslims or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists who object to Christmas being called Christmas, and publicly celebrated."

Absolutely correct, its loony raving lefties getting offended on behalf of people who don't get offended anyway - usually idiots in local councils.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 10:49 AM

But tell me Dave, WHY do you always choose to try and find the bad side of people? It mystifies me, it really does.

Since you have seen the bad side of countless people and organisations, and whose posts are littered with asterisks, I feel that is a bit rich coming from you.

Why have you mentioned the nationality of those nurses, unless you believe in stereotypes of course?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 09:24 AM

It's always so easy to only see the bad, isn't it...

Well, listen to this....

First of all, Mother Theresa has been dead for 12 years, and she cannot be held responsible for what is happening in her homes today.

I agree that if that is what is happening, it needs to be addressed, but more than that, the nuns need help from around the world to look after the children in the correct way, to be taught nursing properly, social care etc....

When I had Toxicara, back when I was 19, I was in Neasden Eye Hospital for well over a month whilst they tried to work out what I had. In that time I grew very close to all the staff and the children too, whose ward I was in.   But....the discipline amongst the nursing staff was total shite. Some of those nurses should never have been there in the first place, they were damned lazy and I was doing their work for them, caring for the children, feeding those who were unable to sit up, changing nappies etc...or rather, using sanitary pads to do that, from the Ladies' Ward, as there were NO nappies on that ward, and one little toddler, who had just had surgery for congenital cataracts, was left all day long in the same nappy until I went a little nuts over it...and they eventually got some nappies on the ward...and spoke to her mother, who seemed not quite with it, to be honest...certainly not able to care too much for her little girl....

Anyway, I digree. The ward was being run by a Malaysian Sister. Really sweet lassie she was, but utterly hopeless at discipline and orders..and didn't those other nurses know it!

Two weeks later, when the Irish sister came back, that ward was a different place. Everything shone, bed corners were tucked in just so, patients gleamed and all was ticketyboo...She was a natural leader, stood for no crap whatsoever and ANY nurse...or indeed doctor or surgeon, who disobeyed her knew they had stepped over the mark, BIGTIME!

If you have a rotten captain at the helm, then your ship will start to sink...I'm sorry, I don't believe Mother Theresa was a rotten captain, nor that she ran a sinking ship.

Those who've followed her...well, who knows...?

But tell me Dave, WHY do you always choose to try and find the bad side of people? It mystifies me, it really does.

May the true Spirit of Christmas find it's way to you...

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 08:08 AM

I agree with Carol. I don't use the word Christmas. If there is one thing for certain the celebration around the turn of the year has nothing to do with the birth date of Jesus. So let's get that out of the way. Shepherds would not be in the fields at the time of the year - it is too cold. I am happy to have a celebration at any time. I and friends celebrate the turn of the year. The family come together on December 25th because it is convenient in terms of holidays and people not working.

Nothing to do with religion.

And I wouldn't go overboard about Mother Theresa. There are plenty of people to attest she was by no means perfect and that there was plenty of money in a variety of bank accounts whilst her orphanages were struggling for cash.

This paints a different picture.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: MikeL2
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 06:52 AM

hi carol

Couldn't put it better myself.......so I won't.
Very "unmudkatlike" I know.....but there you go....lol

regards

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 01:38 AM

I don't have any problem with people using the term, "Christmas", myself, but I do get tired of this endless bitching people engage in year after year about what other people call things and what other people do during the December holidays. Why can't people just do what they want and let other people do what they want?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:29 PM

I like that memo, Little Hawk.. :0)   

I feel like that about English folk music! ;0)


Moving on, rapidly.........LOL


"Mother Teresa wasn't a noisy one in terms of religion, she was noisy in terms of getting a better deal for the young of Calcutta. The fact her motivation came from her faith is neither here nor there...."


Oh, poo.... :0)

That 'fact' is everything, surely. How can you possibly say that her religious faith counted for nothing, when without that she may never have walked upon the path she did?   She questioned her own faith many a time, but she never gave in....never gave up..

This image....and lie...that all Christians are whacko and bordering on the evil really gets up my nose. It's one that's been cleverly weaved into current day society to the point of people wanting to now run away from the Church and all they stand for as fast as they can...

Yes, of course there ARE religious fanatics, but there are one helluva lot of great and good Christian people out there who've dedicated their lives, in their own quiet way, to helping others and to carrying out the belief of Jesus.

Religion used to create fear is wrong, no matter what that religion may be....and yes, it's been used that way for centuries, with much evil being done in it's name....but you can't just dismiss all Christians as complete nutters.   Yeesh! There'd be an outcry if that attitude was used against Muslims, let's face it..

I think children have never been more 'brainwashed' than they are nowadays, and the Corporate Bastards have simply taken the place of the old Religious Fanatics, using their power to create a new kind of 'fear' unless you belong to their 'Church'. The fear they preach is nothing to do with being a non-believer in God, but the fear of being unacceptd through not having the latest 'must have' toy, the latest article of named clothing, the right £4,000 handbag, the glitziest holiday, the perfect Christmas table......ad infinitum.

It srikes me that getting back to the simple teachings of a man who wanted to help others, might not be so bad.. :0)


For all the Tinsel & Turkey folks visiting Torquay there are many on the streets down here for whom Christmas will be 'just another day'..

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." - Mother Theresa

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 06:55 PM

I'm struggling to see where anyone on this thread has said they ought to be banned...


You know, some people particularly prone to seeing folk devils everywhere. At the end of the day most people manage to keep a sense of balance and perspective in their lives. But those people who insist on tilting at non-existent windmills make me feel rather sad, because their lives would probably be much happier if they could stop raging at demons that simply aren't there.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 06:38 PM

Pardon me if I don't think that a store showing a religious Christmas scene as well as video game display, or playing Christmas Carols as well as Frosty the Snowman is shoving it down your throat. Be adult for heaven's sake! Accept Christmas symbols or ignore Christmas symbols, but don't cause them to be banned, especially in private places catering to the public.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 05:35 PM

"...cartoonist Thomas Nast, about 1862... His cartoons of Boss Tweed were so damaging to the corrupt politician that they were the source for the current word "nasty".

Sorry to spoil a good derivation, pdq, but the word "nasty" has been around for a lot longer than that. Shorter Oxford English Dictionary gives it as "late Middle English, origin unknown", but with the earliest reference being from 1548, with the sense "offensive to smell or taste, nauseous".

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 05:03 PM

Doug, you rascal! ;-) No, I don't listen to the TV or commercial radio stations, but I keep myself well-informed by reading Canada's best known newspapers (The Globe and Mail and the Toronto Star), by reading many books, and by researching news and current events on the Internet every day.

That way I can pretty much avoid the frantic corporate advertising that I would have foisted on me on commercial radio and TV.

*****


Now, here's a little memo about an office Christmas party, for the amusement of all. Many of you have probably seen it before, but you might still enjoy reading it again:

Company Memo
FROM:    Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO:         All Employees
DATE:    October 1, 2009
RE:       Gala Christmas Party

I'm happy to inform you that the company Christmas Party will take place on December 23rd, starting at noon in the private function room at the Grill House. There will be a cash bar and plenty of drinks! We'll have a small band playing traditional carols.. feel free to sing along. And don't be surprised if our CEO shows up dressed as Santa Claus! A Christmas tree will be lit at 1:00 PM. Exchanges of gifts among employees can be done at that time; however, no gift should be over $10.00 to make the giving of gifts easy for everyone's pockets. This gathering is only for employees!
Our CEO will make a special announcement at that time!
Merry Christmas to you and your family,
Patty

Company Memo
FROM:    Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO:         All Employees
DATE:    October 2, 2009
RE:       Gala Holiday Party

In no way was yesterday's memo intended to exclude our Jewish employees. We recognize that Hanukkah is an important holiday, which often coincides with Christmas, though unfortunately not this year. However, from now on, we're calling it our "Holiday Party." The same policy applies to any other employees who are not Christians and to those still celebrating Reconciliation Day. There will be no Christmas tree, and no Christmas carols will be sung. We will have other types of music for your enjoyment.
Happy now?
Happy Holidays to you and your family,
Patty

Company Memo
FROM:   Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO:       All Employees
DATE:   October 3, 2009
RE:       Holiday Party

Regarding the note I received from a member of Alcoholics Anonymous requesting a non-drinking table, you didn't sign your name. I'm happy to accommodate this request, but if I put a sign on a table that reads, "AA Only," you wouldn't be anonymous anymore. How am I supposed to handle this?
Somebody?
And sorry, but forget about the gift exchange, no gifts are allowed since the union members feel that $10.00 is too much money and the executives believe $10.00 is a little chintzy.
REMEMBER: NO GIFTS EXCHANGE WILL BE ALLOWED.

Company Memo
FROM: Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
To:       All Employees
DATE:   October 4, 2009
RE:       Generic Holiday Party

What a diverse group we are! I had no idea that December 20th begins the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which forbids eating and drinking during daylight hours. There goes the party! Seriously, we can appreciate how a luncheon at this time of year does not accommodate our Muslim employees' beliefs. Perhaps the Grill House can hold off on serving your meal until the end of the party or else package everything for you to take it home in little foil doggy baggy. Will that work?
Meanwhile, I've arranged for members of Weight Watchers to sit farthest from the dessert buffet, and pregnant women will get the table closest to the restrooms. Gays are allowed to sit with each other. Lesbians do not have to sit with Gay men, each group will have their own table.
Yes, there will be flower arrangement for the Gay men's table.
To the person asking permission to cross dress, the Grill House asks that no cross-dressing be allowed, apparently because of concerns about confusion in the restrooms. Sorry
We will have booster seats for short people.
Low-fat food will be available for those on a diet.
I am sorry to report that we cannot control the amount of salt used in the food. The Grill House suggests that people with high blood pressure taste a bite first.
There will be fresh "low sugar" fruits as dessert for diabetics, but the restaurant cannot supply "no sugar" desserts. Sorry!

Did I miss anything?!?!?
Patty
Company Memo
FROM:   Patty Lewis, Human Resources Director
TO:         All F*%^ing Employees
DATE:    October 5, 2009
RE:         The F*%^ing Holiday Party

I've had it with you vegetarian pricks!!! We're going to keep this party at the Grill House whether you like it or not, so you can sit quietly at the table furthest from the "grill of death," as you so quaintly put it, and you'll get your f*%^ing salad bar, including organic tomatoes. But you know, tomatoes have feelings, too. They scream when you slice them. I've heard them scream. I'm hearing them scream right NOW!
The rest of you f*%^ing weirdoes can kiss my *ss. I hope you all have a rotten holiday!
Drive drunk and die,
The B*tch from H*ll!!!
Company Memo
FROM: Joan Bishop, Acting Human Resources Director
DATE:   October 6, 2009
RE:       Patty Lewis and Holiday Party

I'm sure I speak for all of us in wishing Patty Lewis a speedy recovery and I'll continue to forward your cards to her.
In the meantime, management has decided to cancel our Holiday Party and give everyone the afternoon of the 23rd off with full pay.
Happy Holidays!
Joan

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: jacqui.c
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 04:33 PM

Well said Jeri and Ruth.

I am not a Christian but I do enjoy the togetherness of Christmas and the New Year, spending time with those I love and just enjoying the season. I would agree that this is a good time, in the Northern Hemisphere at least, for a festival of some sort, a view obviously shared by the Ancients in celebrating the Winter Solstice.

I hate all the commercialism that goes on - adverts suggesting that the only good present is a bauble worth thousands of pounds or a new car. All the push to persuade us to buy more food than we can eat over such a short period and that, if we don't indulge in this excess, we are letting our families (and big business) down.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: GUEST,Steamin' WIllie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 04:05 PM

Ah well you see...

Darwin did have issues as everything he worked out went against his upbringing and (some would say) brainwashing conditioning. He certainly had more guts than me. My wife's family are superstitious but I wouldn't dream of setting out to offend them, even though they offend me by getting all annoyed when we don't join them in church when we visit.

His downer on god was, I suppose, easier once he realised the bible wasn't as it were, gospel.

Mother Teresa wasn't a noisy one in terms of religion, she was noisy in terms of getting a better deal for the young of Calcutta. The fact her motivation came from her faith is neither here nor there. My motivation for first going to a folk club was that my older brother used to go to them when I was a kid and I listened to Ewan McColl etc on records because as a 9 year old, you copy your older brother. Once I was 16, I got curious and went to one. Who else has that exact motivation? We all have different ones. Her motivation for her work was religion, my motivation for altruism is whatever it is. Certainly not superstition.

I do take your point that live and let live is important and it does seem christians are getting picked on, but stand back and think about it, the noisy shallow end makes the general noise from the swimming baths unbearable.

I do live and let live, and try to keep my comments general, not personal. The catholic priest who told me (in a debate I was part of in a town hall once) that I will hopefully burn in hell makes my point. It was the word hopefully I took most issue with. The rest was fantasy but the hope was stupid hypocrisy.

Not trying to derail the thread, but just a part of why I feel Xmas is whatever your tradition is, not a fairy story that has been made out to be true, (unless you want it to be.) If non christian cards sell better than christian ones, that;s business for you, and mammon is something that is worshipped far more than this jesus fellow, and both forms of idolatry lead ultimately to sadness and disappointment.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: pdq
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:42 PM

The modern image of Santa Claus as a jolly man with a red suit and white beard came from cartoonist Thomas Nast, about 1862.

He also gave us the Democrat donkey and the Republican elephant.

His cartoons of Boss Tweed were so damaging to the corrupt politician that they were the sourrce for the current word "nasty".

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:41 PM

But...didn't Darwin have a downer on God, after his daughter died so young?

Just being Devil's Advocate here..


"As some philosopher once said, religion is like a swimming baths. All the noise comes from the shallow end."

So, are you saying that someone like Mother Theresa of Calcutta is 'shallow' then?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:32 PM

Lizzie Cornish asks why Christianity is singled out and would anybody have a pop at Islam.

1. In The UK, we have a democracy, although we also have Bishops in The House of Lords, so not a democracy at all. As Christians can affect my life, I have every right to point out the emperor has no clothes, (or beard to be precise.)

2. It is always Christians, not any other superstition knocking on my door, trying to influence politics etc.

If a muslim had a pop at me in terms of faith, I would certainly have a pop back. Perhaps the reason christian are singled out, it is because it is christians who go out of their way to interfere with my life.

I was in Dubai last year during Ramadan. The principle was that as a non muslim, I was not expected to fast, that would be silly according to the government there. Just don't drink in front of somebody who is fasting, thats all. Compare that to trying to get served in B&Q after 4..00pm on a Sunday. Ask the store, they would like to be open the same as any other day, and there are staff willing to work too. If christians want to stay at home with a leaky tap, get on with it.

For the record, islam is a superstition same as any other. It just hasn't tried interfering in my life yet. Terrorists hijacking a religion is not the same thing, before somebody starts pointing things out. I was at Kings Cross when the bombs went off, and yes, I was, in a small way, interfered with, but by terrorists, not a religion.

As some philosopher once said, religion is like a swimming baths. All the noise comes from the shallow end.

Jesus saves! Darwin scores on the rebound!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:26 PM

Happy Mithras. The Persian god was said to be born on Dec. 25.

For the others, Happy Myth-ras.

The christmas tree lights are the symbol of burning trees to bring back the sun.
Time was they burnt the trees on the Winter Solstice, and lo and behold, the sun came back. The days got longer and sunnier.

The picture we have of Santa was painted by a guy who worked for Coca Cola. The Company used it in their ads. (I think Santa gained weight drinking Coke. He was skinnier as European Saint Nicholas).

Did Rudolph get his shiny nose from drinking too much spiked egg nog? Or coke?

Gift giving is a wonderful idea. As was posted above why does it just have to be on Christmas? We could give the wonderful gift of bringing the troops home from Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan but let's not carry this christmas tradition too far. :)

Buy lots of gifts this season and make Wall Street happy.

I think seriously that christmas is a fun holiday if you make it that way. Any excuse for having fun includes any holiday.

Christmas carols are pretty whether you believe in their religious message or not.
I sing 'em joyfully and don't believe a thing they say. Just like folk music texts.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:10 PM

"Have you heard about another feature of the season Lizzie - known as good will?
Or do you prefer that those who don't celebrate in one particular religion (i.e. yours!) should all 'go shove their intolerant backsides in the snow... '"


yup, I sure have heard of Goodwill, Emma. Have you though?

I'm not talking about other religions here....heck, *I* don't have a religion...but I respect people who DO. And if they want cards with Jesus, Mary and Joseph on, then that's just fine by me. Likewise Nativity plays, the three wise kings, the bible, or nurses praying for their patients, for nothing but kind and loving reasons.

What I cannot abide is people who are constantly trying to put Christianity down, along with all of those who believe in it. We see it on here over and again, but we also know that those very same people who choose to villify Christianity wouldn't DARE to do the same thing with the Jewish or Muslim religion, or any other...

So, if someone would please explain to me why Christianity has been singled out in this way, I'm very ready to listen.

Until I hear a decent explanation, I'll continue to say that those sort of people should go show their intolerant backsides into the snow, because they should either be on here villifying ALL religions, or....NONE at all.

You cannot, in my book, single out Christianity for preferential hate treatement.

And the way that people are almost afraid to admit to being Christian these days says an awful lot, because they've been bullied and laughed at to the point where they'd rather not even admit to their beliefs..and that is wrong.

They bullying culture that has surrounded Christianity for two decades or more has been very wrong, imo...and I also believe that is part of the reason why the Christian Celebration has been deliberately dumbed down and become little more, for the masses, than just another excuse to get paralytic and spend loadsa money.

I loathe the way Christmas has become...so I thought I'd make a stand and tell folks...that's all.

Peace and Goodwill to all religions...and to all non-religious people too who have good souls and kindness in their heart.

The spiteful ones....? Well, there's a snow drift over there...you know what to do...

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:54 PM

What's all this about deeper meaning???

Xmas was a pagan / Roman festival hijacked so the proselytising Christians could make it easier to convert them.

Xmas is, like anything else, what you make it. I am not a Christian, in fact I am not a member of any superstition. So I do get a bit angry when Christians try claiming you cannot enjoy it as much if you miss out the little baby jesus...

I enjoy it by eating, drinking, laughing, seeing my lads, watching the football.....

That IS Xmas. Or at least it is my Xmas. If yours is different, then good luck. Just don't try enforcing yours onto mine.

I keep looking for those Santa on a cross figures that were popular a few years ago. Keep the god botherers from the door. (And some of her happy clappy relatives for that matter.)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:28 PM

Yes, an excellent time for a family gathering in the drear of winter. No other excuse needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM

Well, both extremes make me nervous - those who want to "put Christ in Christmas" and shove it down your throat; and those who think the word is offensive and must be avoided.

But hey, I love Christmas, or whatever winter holiday you want to celebrate with me. In the Northern Hemisphere, December is a pretty dreary month, with grey skies and dead vegetation. The Christmas traditions and gift-giving and music do a lot to brighten up a dreary season. Who'd want to bother with decorations and gift-giving in August, when you can go hiking and swimming and camping? Who wants to gather in a home in July, when you can be outside enjoying the evening sunlight?

I made a foray out last night (Thursday) to take advantage on a one-day sale on power tools. They were sold out. What a drag. I think I'll stay home on Black Friday and enjoy the fireplace and my family and the leftovers.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:40 PM

L.H.: don't watch TV? Don't listen to radio? Does that account for the fact that in your posts you always appear so well informed? :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:33 PM

cos it will offend members of other religions, like Muslims, Jews, Hindus, & the representatives of these other religions saying we're not offended & the PC folks saying, yes you are, we know best!

Sums it up nicely.

The Mail and the Express will be running "Carols Banned" or "Winterland" stories soon (if they haven't already started).

Try putting "Council Bans Christmas" into Google.

You get loads of hits, all of which turn out to be horlicks once investigated. But by then Nick Griffin and his mates have quoted them and so they go around and around.

Personally I'm out at an Eid party tonight. The problem is a shortage of taxis.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:44 AM

Sorry, Hawk...my bad , as they say.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:23 AM

We get up with the Sun, and go to bed with the Sun, over this sacred time.

Hardly worth getting up, Bryn - especially up in these latitudes! Solstice Point in the UK this year is 17.47, on the 21st - by which time you'll be safely tucked up in bed!

As a SAD suffering atheist I'm quite happy to celebrate the Solstice, Christmas, Xmas, Hanaka, Winterval, Festivus (for the Rest of Us), or whatever other nonsense humans have come up with over the years to cope with the savage realities of winter. Shame hibernation wasn't one of them...

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:05 AM

I don't mind you celebrating christmas, provided you don't mind me and mine celebrating Yule.

This is very much family orientated - we shall be fortunate to have four generations round the festive table on December 21st.

There are presents ; there is thanksgiving for family, and praise to the gods that we have survived another year.

There is fire, and candles - artificial light is a no-no, except for those which are called "fairy lights" on Odin's tree.

We get up with the Sun, and go to bed with the Sun, over this sacred time.

There is much love, great food (but not gluttony, which is well discouraged) ; drink for those who want it; and, most important, at midnight on the 20th, cakes and ale are taken to a convenient oak tree, in praise and thanksgiving to the
Great Mother and the All Father.

On the 'day' of the 21st we go to neighbours and bring cakes and ale for sharing.

Sound familiar ?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 08:31 AM

Amen, Jeri and Ruth!

As for me, I play the music, sing the songs, light the lights, bring in the greens, set out the lovely carved-wood nativity scene from the southern Appalachians, and celebrate as my good friend Alouette wrote in a round that came to her in a flash one Solstice:

"Candles keep us from the dark, and fire from the cold,
Good friends, good food, and music are light for the soul."
(can't figure out how or where to upload an mp3 of this wonderful song, but pm me and I'll email it!)


Ads? Crass commercialism? I just ignore them, as I do the rest of the year.

Allison



(It helps that we own neither a tv nor a radio!)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:51 AM

I thought, John, that the gist of your opening post was primarily that you are bugged by all the commercialism and selling at Christmas, not by the holiday itself. That barrage of commercialism bugs me too, and I avoid it mainly by just not tuning in to the broadcast media.

Then I got talking about some other stuff, cos one thing leads to another. ;-)

Fewer things "bug" me as time goes by, because I don't tend to dwell much on things that bug me...although there are some political issues I remain quite interested in.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:40 AM

we also have the excessive commercialism (buy our expensive stuff to show them you love them!, overfeed them all this food to show you love them!, go into debt, with no interest for lots of months, to show you love them!) & the PC mob saying don't use the word 'Christmas' cos it will offend members of other religions, like Muslims, Jews, Hindus, & the representatives of these other religions saying we're not offended & the PC folks saying, yes you are, we know best!

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Alice
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:16 PM

Like the saying "live and let live",

... celebrate and let celebrate!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:58 PM

Well said, Jeri and Ruth. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:39 PM

Man, Little Hawk, you completely missed the gist of my opening post.

I'm ranting because merchants peddle merchandise as if there is a special reason when it has becomes less and less so. Most people give gifts in December for reasons that are longer seasonally important. Those December gifts would have just as much or as little meaning, if given at any other time.

I know there are many Christians who celebrate the Nativity, giving gifts in honor of the holiday, not just giving lip service to it. I'm not railing against them. My admiration for them is profound.

I don't celebrate Christmas because I am not a Christian. I'm not offended by Christmas. I am offended by those who are offended by an overt celebration of Christmas as a religious holiday!

Not only that, am I not offended by the public or private celebration of any religion's holidays; I am joyed to see the traditions and the trappings that go with them.

Finally Hawk, you choose the things that tick you off and I'll choose my battles; at this time, this ticks me off.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:28 PM

"...and it was in the desert and everything. Not a lot to really make it bear any resemblance to the midwinter..."

Not that there's anything about it in the Gospel narratives - but in fact it does snow in the Holy Land. Here is a picture of a snowy Bethlehem.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:20 PM

Sorry, it wan't Giok who asked why we bother, it was the OP, John on the Sunset Coast.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:19 PM

I'm a humanist. I'm good with Christmas.

But Emma's points are spot on. Giok asks why we give gifts and have a knees-up in the winter if it's no longer anything to do with Christ.

Well, as most folkies know, Christmas was grafted onto much older, midwinter celebrations. Lots of religions have them. I'm not a Christian, but neither am I a pagan - I still like to have a bit of a knees-up at the darkest time of the year, which is really what it was all about in the first place, right? Banishing the cold and the darkness with a bit of festivity? I mean, everyone knows Jesus wasn't actually born on the 25th of December, and it was in the desert and everything. Not a lot to really make it bear any resemblance to the midwinter revelry we know today - but then again, the midwinter revelry came first anyway. I genuinely love carols like "In the Bleak Midwinter" precisely because they graft a particular kind of Englishness onto this utterly foreign experience. Kinda like Holman Hunt's very English-looking Jesus in The Light of the World.

I remember at my Convent school one of the priests once told us that Easter is the most important holiday in the Christian calendar, not Christmas, and if we revered Christmas over Easter we were all heathen blasphemers who were going to hell in a handcart. Did that make us love Easter any more? Nope. But, you know, there wasn't midnight mass at Easter. Or carolling, or any of the other good stuff, except swanning around on the boardwalk in a big hat. It was a bit rubbish in comparison, really. Maybe there's simply something a bit deeper in us that longs to celebrate at this time of year.

I'm happy to call it Christmas, because it's traditional ;). I'm not that bothered about contemplating Christ's birth, but I love each and every other tradition that goes along with it. So yes, I'll be hauling my agnostic arse down to our 1000 year old village church on Christmas eve. The church will be lit with candles, and the children in the village will sing, and I'll probably get roped into serving mulled wine and mince pies like last year. And then we'll go to the pub on the village green, and I will share a drink and a laugh with my neighbours around the fire.

That's my Christmas - totally traditional, and totally godless. And anyone who doesn't like it is equally welcome to cool their bums in a snowdrift. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:09 PM

In UK . the people who create problems for anyone trying to celebrate Christmas seem to be the Over Sensitive Politically Sensitive Pillocks who are SO concerned about upsetting all those other people who frankly dont give a S**t about what WE do .
But PLEASE dont start the celebrations at least until the Start of Advent !

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: pdq
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:49 PM

If you want to read more stuff by people who want to ban Christmas, check out these folks...

                                                            American Humanist Association