BS: Christmas? A rant

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:33 PM

",,,bring back CHRISTmas....and those who don't like it can go shove their intolerant backsides in the snow" -- the irony was not lost on me, Lizzie. Thanks for pointing out that there's no set form for intolerance.

I was raised Christian and I'm a non-believer these days, although you'd need a checklist with thousands of yes or no answers to determine what I do or don't believe in. I think it's possible that everyone who says they're Christian might need a hundred or so fewer questions.

Christmas is, for me, a time when loved ones get together and just try to be a little bit better. It's white and red and green. It smells like spruce and pine, cinnamon and cloves, roasting turkey, sage and thyme. It's tinsel and ornaments and lights and packages wrapped up in brightly colored paper. It's visiting with friends and neighbors. I know what it feels like to celebrate the religion, and I know how it feels to just celebrate the time of year. I think that whatever you celebrate is fine, but best if love and generosity are part of it.

The stores are just cashing in on the tradition. Buy stuff or ignore the sales--they don't force people to believe anything--they don't even force anyone to buy their wares. Businesses can never control what's in people's hearts, and I find no reason to think they should be trying to.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Alice
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:14 PM

Stan Freberg, Green Chri$tma$

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Acorn4
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:11 PM

Come Back, Ebenezer

1.The first Nowell that the angels did say
Was a Noel Edmonds Special upon Christmas Day
All hail to the brain dead forget silent night
Fill up every channel with wall to wall sh**e

2.Away in a manger, no crib for a bed,
They've barcoded Jesus stuck a paper hat on his head
Like cattle we're seething let's make the tills ring,
With big mouths and big bums and obnoxious offspring

Chorus:-

Come back, Ebenezer, when all's said and done,
Put it down to your dry sense of humour
Wheel your trolley to the checkout,
Stick on a false grin
And become a festive consumer.

3.Oh come all ye faithful, oh come ye three kings
Bear the gift of Bing Crosby to make us all cringe
Let's all stuff our faces, and loudly get pissed
Unto us is born Johnny Mathis to drive us all round the twist.

4.Lets deck all the halls with boughs of holly
Fill up the bars with every rentagob wally
It certainly would have advanced peace on earth
If someone had strangled Cliff Richard at birth.

Come back, Ebenezer, when all's said and done,
Put it down to your dry sense of humour
Wheel your trolley to the checkout,
Stick on a false grin
And become a festive consumer.

5.Hark the Herald Angels jingle and wassail
Here's a health to the credit card, to Cliff's wallet all hail
And just for a parting gift to all mankind
That f***ing record by Slade for the 3 millionth time

Come back, Ebenezer, when all's said and done,
Put it down to your dry sense of humour
Wheel your trolley to the checkout,
Stick on a false grin
And become a festive consumer.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:11 PM

"In my experience such objections generally come from militant atheists, or from a few nominal Christians who lack the courage of their convictions."

or from Evangelical Christians who object to Christs's name being applied to a pagan festival!

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Alice
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:07 PM

Holiday has become a generic term, which can apply to government holidays, too, like 4th of July.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: gnomad
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 07:05 PM

If one cannot call Christmas by that name what is its point anyway? And how is holiday (Holy day) any better for those supposedly offended?

I ask these questions as a non-believer who is not offended. The feast that people are observing needs its name, be it Christmas, Yom Kippur, or the anniversary of Kermit's first panic attack. Let folk celebrate whatever event(s) they wish, in the manner of their choosing, subject to normal behavioural bounds.

I have not encountered anyone professing a non-Christian religion who voiced an objection to the term Christmas. In my experience such objections generally come from militant atheists, or from a few nominal Christians who lack the courage of their convictions.

Mind you, I would happily see the event confined to the twelve days, but that is a matter of taste, and of boredom threshold.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:58 PM

Growing up in Scotland, we didn't really celebrate Christmas. The main winter festival was New Year, and there was always at least one report of a Headmaster (usually a Seceder) refusing to let his school celebrate a pagan festival. We had a small family party with presents, rather like a glorified Sunday, though the vast majority of churches were closed.

Santa Claus, after all, owes more to Odin than to St Nicholas (who only gave presents to the poor), and the Christmas tree is a relic of pagan Germanic human sacrifices.

As to referring to it as "holiday", isn't this just "Holy Day" referring to a Christian religious festival?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:46 PM

Well said, McGrath. I have found most of the Muslims I know in Canada to be very hospitable, reliable, and kind people, and they all celebrate Christmas as far as I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:38 PM

Jesus Christ is reverenced by Muslims as a prophet, second only to Muhammed. It's never Muslims or Jews or Hindus or Buddhists who object to Christmas being called Christmas, and publicly celebrated.

And I may not keep Ramadan, with all that fasting, but I'm happy to join Muslims in any celebration of Eid. Or Hindus celebrating Diwali, or Jews with Hanukah, or what have you.

The more holidays and celebrations the better - and given their rightful names, to celebrate our diversity.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: GUEST,Guest Emma B
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:33 PM

I am not a christian but I DO celebrate the winter solstice in much the same way as artbrooks described with feasting, gift giving and merry-making.

Have you heard about another feature of the season Lizzie - known as good will?
Or do you prefer that those who don't celebrate in one particular religion (i.e. yours!) should all 'go shove their intolerant backsides in the snow... '


Hanukkah (Hanukah / Hanuka / Chanukah)
is a festival of lights that is symbolized by the candelabrum known as a menorah. Hanukkah celebrates a lighting miracle when one night's worth of oil lit candles for 8 days.

Special foods and gift-giving are also a part of Hanukkah

Sankranti:
The Hindu Sankranti historically takes place on the Solstice, although the date is January 14, which gives evidence to how much time has elapsed since it started. It is believed that people who die on this day end the reincarnation cycle, for which reason it is very lucky.

Gifts are exchanged, sweets and other special food are consumed

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:26 PM

Exactly, pdq. I mean, heck, I don't have any problem ignoring Chanukah or Purim, and they don't bother me at all, so why should a Jew be bothered by Christmas when he can just ignore it?

Just focus on what works for you. I've never been to a Bar Mitzvah and I didn't even notice what I missed. Nor have I ever been baptized. And I haven't been to Mecca. Yet...somehow I feel reasonably fulfilled in any case.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: pdq
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:15 PM

If the Muslims will agree to ignore Christmas, I will solemnly swear to pay no attention to Ramadan.

Sounds fair, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:14 PM

Yup, bring back CHRISTmas....and those who don't like it can go shove their intolerant backsides in the snow...

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:12 PM

Well, I can't honestly say that I pay much attention to advertising, at this time of year or any other, or listen to the words of whatever piped-in "music" is available in the mall. Come to think of it, I avoid the mall.

I do think that this ongoing trend...assuming that this should be a matter of concern at all...really means that we have all come full circle. After all, the early Christians stole the solstice holiday (the time that the sun returned), which was celebrated in the frozen lands of Northern Europe with feasting, gift giving and merry-making, and used it to celebrate the birth of their Christ instead. {Most likely Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef of Nazaret was born sometime in December or January, and I suppose December 25th is as good a guess as any.}

Going back to an earlier form of celebration seems fine to me - and there is no reason at all that the Christians, the Jews, the Wiccans, the African-Americans or anyone else shouldn't be able to celebrate it in their own way.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Alice
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:05 PM

I'm with Joe on this. Christmas is Christmas and it is weird that people try to pretend it is not Christmas or that it should be called something else.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:02 PM

Basic life rule is, if you know what you are doing, and it needs doing, don't ask permission. Doesn't always apply, but more often than not it's the right way to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:01 PM

Good for you, Joe. ;-)

I think that people who are so flipping culturally "sensitive" that the word "Christmas" offends them should get to spend a month or two living at survival level in a Somali refugee camp or something. They would come back with a much-adjusted tolerance level and find themselves offended by not nearly as many things as before they took that little refresher course in reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:47 PM

Well, the Conventional Wisdom is that the term "Christmas" is offensive to at least some people nowadays, so it might be better for merchants to avoid the risk of offending a customer and use a secularized term like "holidays." In some circumstances, especially in stores and other businesses, I agree.

But I work as a volunteer at a women's center that is operated by two nuns (our volunteers and clients come from a wide variety of belief groups). When I took over operation of the Women's Center Website, I found a page that talked about our Christmas Store - except that the page very carefully used the word "holiday" and never once made mention of "Christmas." One of the first changes I made to the Website was to substitute the word "Christmas" for most of the times "holiday" was used. To me, it seemed silly to think that nuns shouldn't be allowed to be associated with the word "Christmas." Oh, and the nuns approved of the changes I made, even though I didn't ask for permission first.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:42 PM

If you don't watch television and basically just don't worry about all the bla-bla on there, it's not much of a problem. Even better if you don't listen to the radio either. That's what I find. As for all the printed advertising that lands in my mailbox, I just drop it in the recycling bin on the way back to the door and never read any of it.

And if you don't want to give gifts...don't. Why get stressed out over something you can just as easily ignore by focusing on other things instead?

Subject: BS: Christmas? A rant
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:31 PM

I have just finished looking at adverts from eighteen (18) different retailers for sales beginning tomorrow. Not even one of these refers in any way to Christmas. Well, a few do show snow flakes or baubles in the background, but the few times the C word shows up it is to advertise a 'Christmas tree'.

I have heard that one particular clothing store will put up no Christmas decorations at all. True? I don't know. The last several years, Disney's holiday jingle to the tune of "Down the Chimney" replaced 'Saint Nick' in the lyric with 'Santa Nick', as if we don't know what Santa means.

Very few folks who decorate their house use any sort of religious symbols. Many just have a string of white light to look like icicles. Too bad; the sentiment was beautiful.

My family doesn't personally celebrate Christmas, although we do send 'Christmas cards' to folks we know who do celebrate.

So the rant is--What's the point of giving gifts in December if there is no underlying meaning to them anymore? Why not give gifts in August when nothing much else is going on? Or on my birthday?--That would be swell.