Tune Req: Woody's tune sources

Subject: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 10:54 AM

Our friend Adam Miller is in the process of looking for tune sources for Woody's songs.
I'm getting a list of those he wants to find out.

For example: "This Land is Your Land."...........Carter Family's "When the World's on Fire"
"Jesus Christ".........................................................."Jesse James"
"So Long, It's Been Good To Know You".................. "Billy the Kid"
"Roll On Columbia"..................................................."Irene, Goodnight"
"Goin' Down the Road Feelin' Bad"                            "Chilly Winds"
"Pastures of Plenty".................................................."Pretty Polly"

Any suggestions would be helpful and useful. Thanks

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 10:59 AM

"I Ain't Got No Home in this World Anymore"......Hymn of the same name.
"Go to Sleep you Weary Hobo" (Hobo's Lullaby) ..."Just Before the Battle Mother"

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: GUEST,Frank,
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:06 AM

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:12 AM

When Guthrie did it they were tune sources. When Dylan did it it was plagiarism.

The time's they are a-changing . . .

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:15 AM

Tom Joad = John Hardy

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:16 AM

Any legitimate folk song that goes through "aural transmission" is plagiarized from somewhere. These tunes are called "variants".

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:19 AM

Depends who y'ask on Mudcat. I'm aware of aural transmission, Frank. However, when the melody of a variant song is copyighted the field changes a little, no?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:19 AM

For example, Dylan's "Masters of War"........................."Nottingham Town" sung by Jean Ritchie.

"With God on our Side"............................................"Patriot Game" or even earlier,
"One Morning In May"

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:23 AM

Uh huh.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:28 AM

1913 Massacre.............One Morning in May.

re. copyright: TeWoody Guthrie Foundation has the tunes to all of Guthrie's songs copyrighted, and seems eager to defend these claims.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:34 AM

Philadelphia Lawyer - what's the name of the song that tells the story of 'Willie' who on a moonlit walk 'plunges his knife into her breast'? (I know, I know- that song and a hundred others. But I do know the words to this one.)

Union Maid - Red Wing

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:45 AM

Ebbie, thanks, good start.

Dick, the Woody archives can't copyright PD tunes. Only lyrics. They couldn't make that stick in court.

Ebbie, it's interesting that the "Frozen Logger" is the same tune for "Philadelphia Lawyer". I don't think that the Logger song was a source as it was written later.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:56 AM

Ramblin' Round = Goodnight Irene
Jolly Banker = Molly Malone
Vigilante Man = Careless Love (just)
I ain't got no home in this world anymore = I Can't feel at home in this world anymore

There's stacks and stacks more, but that's about all I can recall at the moment.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Mark Ross
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 12:09 PM

Do-Re-Mi= Hang Out The Front Door Key

I always thought that Woody had actually written this one, but then I heard a recording of HOTFDK and realized where he go the tune.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: mayomick
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 05:50 PM

Pretty Boy Floyd - Stagolee ?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: PHJim
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 08:52 PM

Good Reuben James - Wildwood Flower with a bridge added (Tell me what were their names...)
Although Stringsinger said the source for This Land Is Your Land was Carter Family's "When the World's on Fire", I had always assumed that it was "Little Darling Pal O'Mine". They are very close.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 11:46 PM

"Ludlow Massacre" from the Carters' "No Depression".

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: 12-stringer
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 12:17 PM

Philadelphia Lawyer = Jealous Lover/Pearl Bryan

Hobo's Lullaby = written by Goebel Reeves, not WG

Dust Bowl Refugee = sounds just like Low and Lonely, but, curiously, recorded a couple of years earlier than the Acuff hit (did Fred Rose lift the melody from WG, or are both knocking off an earlier source?).

Jackhammer Blues (or Jackhammer John) and Big City Ways = Browns Ferry Blues (Alton Delmore)

Lindbergh = White House Blues

From Baltimore to Washington = Cannon Ball Blues (Carter Family)

Grand Coulee Dam/Farmer Labor Train = Wabash Cannonball

New York Town = One Dime Blues (Blind Lemon Jefferson), though it's more a cover than a new composition

Reckless Talk = Careless Love

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 02:00 PM

It's a long-standing tradition. Ebbie pointed out that Union Maid borrowed the tune Redwing. Well, Kerry Mills, the composer of Redwing, actually pinched it from Schumann's Merry Peasant.Bit of research might throw up who Schumann got it from!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Jan 13 - 03:35 PM

Woody did have a remarkable talent for picking tunes to his verses.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Woody's tune sources
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Jan 13 - 03:22 PM

Thanks everyone. Y'all came up with some good 'uns.