Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafehuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)

DigiTrad:
A PICTURE FROM LIFE'S OTHER SIDE
AS I GO RAMBLING ROUND
BELLE STARR
BOUND FOR GLORY
CLEAN-O
DEPORTEES
DO RE MI
DUST PNEUMONIA
EL DO RE MI
GAMBLER
HARD TRAVELIN'
HARD, AIN'T IT HARD
HIGHWAY 66 BLUES
I AIN'T GOT NO HOME IN THIS WORLD ANYMORE
I'M GONNA MAIL MYSELF TO YOU
JACKHAMMER JOHN
JESUS CHRIST
JUST THE FACTS, MA'AM
LIFEBELT WASHED UP ON THE SHORE
LUDLOW MASSACRE
MEAN TALKING BLUES
MRS. ROOSEVELT
NINE HUNDRED MILES
OKLAHOMA HILLS
PASTURES OF PLENTY
POOR LAZARUS
PRETTY BOY FLOYD
RAMBLING ROUND
RANGER'S COMMAND
RED WINE
ROLL ON COLUMBIA
ROLL ON THE DAY
SHIP IN THE SKY
SO LONG IT'S BEEN GOOD TO KNOW YUH
TALKING BLUES
TALKING DUST BOWL BLUES
THE 1913 MASSACRE
THE BLINDING OF ISAAC WOODARD
THE GRAND COULEE DAM
THE LADIES' AUXILIARY
THE PHILADELPHIA LAWYER
THE SINKING OF THE REUBEN JAMES
THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND
THOSE BROWN EYES
TOM JOAD
UNION MAID
WHY OH WHY


Related threads:
3 New Guthrie songs of Spanish Civil War (5)
Songs for/about Woody Guthrie (14)
Lyr Req: Old Man Trump (Woody Guthrie) (10)
Tune Req: 'Here Comes Woody and Lefty Lou' (8)
mrs. roosevelt (14)
Lyr Add: Stetson Kennedy (W.Guthrie/B.Bragg) (4)
Lyr Add: Beluthahatchee Bill (3)
Lyr Req: Way Over Yonder in the Minor Key (Guthrie (46)
Help: 'I've Got To Know' (Woody Guthrie) (27)
Lyr Req: Woody Guthrie songs (12)
(origins) Origins: Ranger's Command (Woody Guthrie) (25)
Lyr Req: Stagolee (Woody Guthrie version) (11)
Lyr Req: Biggest Thing That Man Has Ever Done (9)
Woody Guthrie's My Peace (6)
(origins) Origins: Woodys 'Hard Travelin' tune provenance (3)
Tune Req: Woody's tune sources (21)
(origins) Origins: Pastures of Plenty (Woody Guthrie) (19)
Chord Req: Hard, Ain't It Hard (Guthrie) (8)
(origins) Origins: Tune for Woody's 'Mail Myself to You' (19)
Woody Guthrie's Jewish connections (8)
Meaning/Last verse, Do Re Mi (48)
Pastures of Plenty (Woody Guthrie)-public domain? (16)
Chords Req: Two Good Men (Woody Guthrie) (8)
Lyr Req: Oklahoma Hills (Jack & Woody Guthrie) (15)
Lyr Req: Riding in my Car Car (Woody Guthrie) (39)
Woody Guthrie song '...old oak tree...'? (11)
Chords Req: Fishing Blues (Woody Guthrie) (7)
Chord Req: I Ain't Got Nobody (Woody Guthrie) (10)
Lyr Req/Add: There'll Be No Church Tonight (23)
Lyr Req: Hey Lolly Lolly (Woody Guthrie) (14)
Lyr Req: Hard Travellin'/Travelin' (Woody Guthrie) (14)
Tune Req: Dear Mrs Roosevelt (Woody Guthrie) (12)
Woody Guthrie: Funniest Song? (18)
Origins:Jesus Christ / Jesse James (Woody Guthrie) (6)
(origins) Origins: tune of Vigilante Man (Woody Guthrie) (16)
Lyr Req: Dust Pneumonia Blues (Woody Guthrie) (12)
Lyr Req: Mail Myself to You (Woody Guthrie) (8)
Lyr Add: Hard Travelin' (Woody Guthrie) (15)
Lyr Req: Christ for President (Woody Guthie) (4)
Lyr Req: Song to Woody (Bob Dylan) (13)
Lyr Req: Roll, Columbia, Roll (Woody Guthrie) (9)
Tune Req: Ludlow Massacre (Guthrie)New info (15)
Hard Traveling 2003 (Stephen Suffet) (7)
Lyr Add: The Rubaiyat (Woody Guthrie) (9)
Lyr Req: Columbia River Collection (Woody Guthrie) (6)
Lyr Req: Farmer-Labor Train (Woody Guthrie) (16)
Lyr Req: Lindbergh (Woody Guthrie) (6)
Lyr Req: At My Window, Sad and Lonely (Guthrie) (11)
Lyr Add: The New So Long It's Been Good to Know... (13)
Lyr Req: Babe o' Mine (Woody Guthrie) (6)
Clarification: Lone Wolf (W. Guthrie) (7)
Lyr Add: El Do Re Mi (5)
Lyr Add: One by One (Woody Guthrie) (7)
Lyr Req: Woody Guthrie songs from a film (3)
Lyr Req: Roll On Columbia PARODY (Woody Guthrie/?) (2)
Lyr Req: Gypsy Davey (Woody Guthrie?) (5)
Chord Req. I Guess I Planted (Guthrie/Bragg) (2)
Why oh Why oh Why ... (3)


Ian HP 06 Oct 98 - 03:58 PM
Bert 06 Oct 98 - 04:46 PM
Art Thieme 07 Oct 98 - 11:05 PM
Big Mick 07 Oct 98 - 11:20 PM
Joe Offer 08 Oct 98 - 02:41 AM
northfolk 08 Oct 98 - 11:28 AM
Art Thieme 08 Oct 98 - 09:08 PM
Barry Finn 08 Oct 98 - 09:20 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 08 Oct 98 - 09:34 PM
northfolk 09 Oct 98 - 11:48 AM
Bo 09 Oct 98 - 01:45 PM
skw@ 13 Oct 98 - 03:59 AM
Art Thieme 08 Apr 04 - 11:59 PM
InOBU 13 Jul 07 - 03:13 AM
PeadarOfPortsmouth 19 Oct 07 - 01:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Oct 07 - 09:12 PM
Bob the Postman 08 Dec 07 - 12:29 PM
Peace 08 Dec 07 - 11:35 PM
Sandra in Sydney 09 Dec 07 - 12:08 AM
Art Thieme 10 Dec 07 - 12:47 AM
GUEST,Paul Durst 13 Nov 11 - 11:42 AM
Bob the Postman 13 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:








Subject: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: Ian HP
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 03:58 PM

I would appreciate any background to The Ludlow Massacre by Woody Guthrie. When was the strike? What was the cause of the strike? Was Woody or anyone close to him directly involved? Any other interesting snippets?
Regards
Ian

Click for lyrics in the Digital Tradition


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: Bert
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 04:46 PM

http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/parton/2/louistik.html


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Paul Durst Interview - Art Thieme
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Oct 98 - 11:05 PM

In 1961 I was 20 years old and I boarded an Illinois Central train to haul my 60 pound Webcor 2-track reel-to-reel tape machine all the way from the North side of Chicago to 57th street on the South side (an area called Hyde Park). There was a shop there called THE FRET SHOP run by Pete Leibundguth---a folk fan and instrument collector. There was an old man named Paul Durst living in Pete's back room at the shop. He was 93 years old. Had a long gray beard. I simply had to make some tape recordings of Paul because, the day before, he had told me he had been PRESENT AT THE LUDLOW MASSACRE!

Now, Paul was born in 1868---and, for me, an urban kid, talking to Paul was like taking a trip in a time machine.

Among other things, Paul could still play some fiddle & sing the old Wobbly songs of his union---the Industrial Workers Of The World--the I.W.W. When younger, Paul worked as an agricultural migratory worker---always with his fiddle on his back and hoboing from job to job. He told me he was sound asleep under the boardwalk in Chicago when the bomb went off at the Haymarket riot! He'd been to Europe with Buffalo Bill Cody as a part of Bill's Wild West Show! In Germany they introduced HOOF AND MOUTH DISEASE into Europe as Biill's cattle for the show were found to be infected! All of 'em had to be killed & Bill returned broke from the trip. (He was later re-financed by none other than P.T. Barnum--another great showman!) He and a friend had built a raft of Northern timber and taken it from Minnesota to Louisiana on the Mississippi River where they sold it for the lumber since that particular wood was rare in the South!

Paul Durst's recollections of the Ludlow Massacre were that the miners, who he was with in the tents out of solidarity with their union's strike, were surrounded by the machine guns and 'something like a metal wire was electified somehow and when you touched it it burnt your hands'! All I can figure that might've been was something metal got heated when the "National Guard" set fire to the tents and everything. That heat might've been mistaken for an electric shock. It's hard to say...

I've still got that tape.

Later, after surviving a stroke and getting out of the hospital, Paul moved in with a lady friend. But that was the 60's---wasn't it? Now, it seems, only the president has sex!

Art


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Oct 98 - 11:20 PM

Art,

That is quite a story. If I ever get to stop by and see you, I want to hear that tape, if you would be so kind as to allow me. As a labor organizer/rep for over 20 years, I am very interested.

All the best,

Mick


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Oct 98 - 02:41 AM

That American History in Song Website that Bert linked to is remarkable.
-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: northfolk
Date: 08 Oct 98 - 11:28 AM

The Ludlow massacre happened September 1914, during a strike pitting the United Mine Workers against the Colorado Fuel and Iron Company, which was owned by the Rockefellers. The miners and their families were kicked out of company houses, and in order to continue the strike they set up a tent camp outside of Ludlow. 15 people were killed by machine gun fire, and the burning of the tent camp. During the entire strike thirty three people were killed and many more seriously injured. As a result of Ludlow and a strike a couple years later in New Jersey, Rockefellers hired Mackenzie King, who later became Prime Minister in Canada, to establish the first "company unions". The workers responded by establishing the Oil Workers International Union, which effectively counterposed the company unions and eventually merged with the Gas Coke and Chemical Workers, in 1955 to become the present day Oil Chemical and Atomic Workers Union. I don't recall how old Woody might have been in 1914, but knowing the folk process and Woody's political identification, it is clear he wrote another outstanding song, displaying his understanding of both issues and people.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Oct 98 - 09:08 PM

I'm pretty sure, without running to look it up, that Woody was born on Bastile Day---1912. That would've made him 2 years old when Ludlow went down.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Oct 98 - 09:20 PM

WoW, 2 years old, & to think I saw my first ink pen at age 12. Barry of the thin blue line.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 08 Oct 98 - 09:34 PM

I didn't know that William Lyon MacKenzie King was involved with this. He is famous in Canada for having had a great belief in seances, wherein he would consult his late mother for advice about running the country. I seem to recall that he was a fanatic about his little dogs too.

His mom's ghost apparently didn't have much military knowledge, as she failed to warn him about Dieppe.

It is ironic that he would have had a connection with helping Rockefeller put down workers' unions. His ancestor was William Lyon MacKenzie, a journalist (and eventually the leader of an armed rebellion) who had his printing press chucked into Lake Ontario for writing tirades against the Powers That Be.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: northfolk
Date: 09 Oct 98 - 11:48 AM

Art, That Woody sure was one heck of a song writer, for a two year old. That may have been when he penned the lyrics for Take me riding in the car car. Tim, This may be a case where the nut did fall far from the tree, or the powers that be, may have been unacceptable to a journalist of conservative stripe. I know little of the past national history of Canada, and it's leaders, so I am technically just guessing on this one.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: Bo
Date: 09 Oct 98 - 01:45 PM

Christy Moore does a good version of this song on his 'Prosperous' recording.

Bo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: WOODY'S LUDLOW MASSACRE - INFO PLEASE
From: skw@
Date: 13 Oct 98 - 03:59 AM

In his biography of Woody, Joe Klein says about how the song came to be written:
[1980:] [In late 1944, Woody] suggested to [Moe] Asch that he might even try a regular musical newspaper, with ballads describing the major events of the week or month. Asch was enthusiastic, and decided the series would be called "American Documentary". Woody tuned up for the project by writing several ballads about important events in American radical history, taken from Mother Bloor's autobiography. One ballad described the famous Ludlow Massacre of 1914, where National Guard troops fired on striking Colorado miners and their families. (Klein, Woody Guthrie 281)

On his CD, 'Rain on the Roof' (1996), Andy Irvine does a song he has written on the erection of the monument he refers to in the last paragraph, 'Monument (Lest We Forget)'. Unfortunately, the CD is available only from Andy himself at concerts.
About the massacre he says:
'The Ludlow Massacre is one of those shameful occurrences in social history that make scarce an imprint on your average history book. While history books are busy talking about this battle or that war, they usually pass no comment on the social uprisings that took place here, there and everywhere in the first 20 years of this century.
Briefly, the United Mine Workers of America had managed to organise the many different races of newly-arrived immigrants in the coalfields of Southern Colorado by 1913 to the extent that it was decided to strike against the mighty Colorado Fuel and Iron Company. This company was controlled by John D. Rockefeller and the conditions the workers were kept in resembled the unspeakable squalor of Medieval feudalism.
The company, of course, owned the ramshackle huts that the miners and their families were packed into and evicted them at the outset of the strike. The Union moved them into tent colonies, the largest one being at Ludlow.
In the icy winter of 1913-14, the striking miners and their families were controlled in their tent town by the National Guard which had been called out as a buffer between the Company Guards and the miners, but which soon sided with the company. The dominant figure in this State Militia company was Lieutenant Lindersfelt, an especially brutal bully boy. On April 20 1914, with machine guns and high-powered rifles, the militiamen, who may have been drinking, opened fire without warning on the Ludlow tent colony. The miners had dug pits under some of the tents, so that pregnant women and nursing mothers and their children could be below the firing line. However, the murderous militiamen went berserk and set fire to the tents with coal oil. The next day, when the smoke had cleared, the blackened bodies of two young mothers and eleven children between three months and nine years were found. Though Lindersfelt and others were found guilty after a farcical trial they were punished only by their promotions being delayed. At a congressional hearing, Rockefeller insisted that he had known nothing of the conditions in his mines nor of the company's crimes committed during the strike. This was later shown to be totally untrue.
At the spot where these 13 people died, today there is a monument - put up by the United Mine Workers, note, not by the State of Colorado - which says "In memory of the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's cause at Ludlow, Colorado, April 20, 1914". (For the whole story see: "Buried Unsung" by Zeese Papanikolas.)'

Susanne


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:59 PM

Just a reminder:

Utah Phillips used my recordings of Paul Durst as the centerpiece for his radio program called LOAFER'S GLORY (program #77).

That program is available from Bruce U. Utah Phillips on CD.

Art Thieme


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 03:13 AM

Here is some more... with condolences to the McCleary - holding you all in the light,
lorcan

_________________

Last survivor of Ludlow Massacre dies at 94

By TAMMY ALHADEF THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN

http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1183703953/14

Mary Benich-McCleary, the last known survivor of the Ludlow
Massacre, has died of a stroke.

McCleary, 94, of Morgan City, La., died June 28.

She was 18 months old when the Colorado militia attacked
striking miners and their families on April 20, 1914, at the
Ludlow mining camp north of Trinidad during a labor strike.

McCleary, her parents John and Dominika "Minnie" Benich, and
her two brothers narrowly escaped death when the militia
attacked the striking miners' tent colony.

The conductor of the train that brought the militia members to
the tent colony saved many lives, said McCleary's daughter,
Bridget McCleary-Arcemont, also of Morgan City.

"He saw women holding babies - probably my grandmother - and
stopped the train before the militia could mow them down with
gunfire," she said.

McCleary's father rescued 3-year-old John while her mother
scooped up baby Tom, who was just 9 days old. They ran for the
Black Hills southeast of town. "They ran along the tracks just
under the gunfire. When they got up there they realized there
was no Mary," McCleary-Arcemont said.

According to family lore, a 16-year-old boy from a neighboring
tent heard Mary's cries and gathered her up into his coat
before running for safety. The family did not know of Mary's
fate until she and the boy were found several days later,
hunkered down under the trees, still hiding. Mary was still
hidden inside his coat and he was shaking violently.

"That boy was never the same," said McCleary-Arcemont. "I
think the ordeal just ruined him mentally."

McCleary-Arcemont said her grandfather, who like her
grandmother was a Yugoslavian immigrant, continued working as
a coal miner until the 1940s. By then, the Benich family had
grown to 14.

"They were such a beautiful family," she said. "So loving. And
all 12 kids turned out to be something. They all graduated
high school and they all did things with their lives."

McCleary met her husband, Abner "Mac" Fredrick McCleary, in
California during World War II. He was a Marine. She was a
riveter at Douglas Aircraft and helped build B-17 bombers. The
couple raised four children: Bridget, James "Pat" Patrick,
Karen and Stephen. She lived to see 12 grandchildren and 13
great-grandchildren. "Mac" McCleary died in 1977.

While the experience of the coal camp massacre stayed with the
Benich family, McCleary's daughter, Karen Adams, said family
members didn't like to speak of it.

"It was hard times, that's all we really know," she said.
"They just did what they had to do to survive."

McCleary's younger sister Frances, of Farmington, N.M., is the
last surviving sibling.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: PeadarOfPortsmouth
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 01:18 PM

Just curious...

I haven't played this in a while and have been dusting it off to bring back. While doing so, I've been thinking it would be interesting to hear some other interpretations of the song since I've only got one.

Originally, I learned this song from Christy Moore's version on "Prosperous", but would love to know if anyone has recommendations of recordings I could check out.

Peter

ps
Art - I'm hoping to get a copy of that recording LOAFER'S GLORY...what a great story!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Oct 07 - 09:12 PM

Jack Elliot recorded it, along with a lot of other Woody songs.

And of course there is Woody's own version - you can hear a sample of it on this link - Hard Travelin': The Asch Recordings, Vol. 3


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 12:29 PM

I'm preparing a radio article about labour strife in Colorado, hanging it on the "Ludlow" hook. Two questions:

1) Did Guthrie borrow the tune of "Ludlow Massacre" from the Carter Family's "No Depression"? Or from some other source?

2) Did the Carter Family borrow the tune of "No Depression" and if so, from where.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: Peace
Date: 08 Dec 07 - 11:35 PM

Bob, the following link may help.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=No%20Depression


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Dec 07 - 12:08 AM

Archaeological excavation of massacre site - Archaeology 57(6) 2004


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Dec 07 - 12:47 AM

ARCHIE GREEN's new book---THE BIG RED SONG BOOK---has given a nice nod to the fact that these tapes I made of Paul Durst in '61 (when I was 20) are just about the only real FIELD RECORDINGS ever made of an active I.W.W. member who was actually involved in these extraordinary events from those early years of the twentieth century. I was amazed nobody ever had sought out these people who had so much to tell us about what went down!

Like mountain man Jim Bridger, who sat on the porch of his daughter's home in Kansas City for 15 years, dying, and slowly going blind, nobody ever thought enough to talk with this man who was such a huge part of western and American history. ------ So very much does, seemingly, just get away from us...

I'll come back tomorrow and type out what Archie Green actually had to say in his book's back pages. I felt it was very nice of him to include those mentions therein.

Art Thieme


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: GUEST,Paul Durst
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 11:42 AM

I remember Paul Durst who used to site in the big chair in the front window of the Fret Shop on 57th St in the late 50's. I had no idea he was in his 90's. He used to love to tell stories and it seems like I spent hours sitting there listening to stories of the Wobblies and riding the rails. I cherish the memory of those days on 57th St.

Alan Block


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Info Req: Ludlow Massacre (Woody Guthrie)
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 13 Nov 11 - 06:04 PM

Since this thread has been revived, I might as well put up a link to the radio pieces I was working on when I posted in December 07. Three podcasts about the massacre can be heard here .


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 28 March 9:36 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.