BS: Hypnotism

Subject: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,scared worried member
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 03:26 PM

Has anyone any direct knowledge of hypnotism? Can someone be made to do things they wouldn't do normally? I've talked to someone I saw do strange things whilst hypnotised onstage and he said he didn't remember a thing. I'm scared something similar happened to me and revenge may be sought by an offended person. I'm really stressed right now and it's not just Christmas.I don't remember much about what happened, but it would explain a lot odd incidents since then.Please don't reply if you can't help.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 04:06 PM

I'd suggest you immediately telephone the offended person and lay the situation out as you see it and ask for their point of view. At least you would be off the uncertainty.

Yes, people can do under hypnotism things which they "normally" will not do, but in general not things they would feel repelled at doing on ethical grounds -- they can turn on abilities and suppress inhibitions, but making someone go against their nature is usually much less likely -- I guess it depends on what you mean by "normally:"! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 04:24 PM

Thanks Amos, that's good advice, I will try and get in touch with the people involved, if anyone has any more to add I need all the help I can get right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 04:57 PM

Woofff... woofffff.... grrrrrrrrr.... wooffff.... ruffff... grrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

ruffff...gerrrr

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Mark Clark
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 05:00 PM

I agree with Amos as far as getting an adult to things that go against his nature. You might find this article interesting.

Although it's been many years ago now, I have actually hypnotized people. As adolescents my brother and I were fascenated by The Search for Bridey Murphy and the possibility of “remembering” previous lives. We read everything we could find at the library and practiced until we could hypnotize friends in the neighborhood. We would then leave post-hypnotic suggestions designed to let us reinstate the trance state quickly any time we choose. It was amusing to leave innocent post-hypnotic suggestions and then watch the perplexed expression on a subject's face as, after awakening, he performed some action for which he had no conscious motive whatever.

This activity was an extremely bad idea. I'm ashamed to say that our little stunt produced some psycological harm in at least one of our “subjects” and I wish we'd never tried it. I have never tried it again nor will I. I think hypnotism should be left to carefully trained medical professionals.

I should add that we never tried to get a “subject” to do anything dangerous, immoral or illegal. We understood the potential for harm and had no desire to embarrass or harm anyone.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 06:16 PM

As someone who is certified in Hypnotherapy I would be extremely surprised if someone hypnotized you without your knowledge. Takes permission to put someone under.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 08:37 PM

I agree with Norton1. It also takes a hell of a lot of work (usually 8 hours or so) to gain enough insight into what someone is inclinded to do under suggestion - that is inorder to get them to do things which are out of the ordinary for them. Yeah the suggestions can work on a very superficial level ie the electric shock from a door knob kind of thing but the dancing around naked (unless it is something that you Normally do) is another matter entirely. Are you sure that some one isn't pulling your leg and telling you that you did/said things that you normally wouldn't?

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: kendall
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:20 PM

I tried hypnotism to quit smoking. There were about 20 of us in the room. The hypnotist kept repeating, "You are getting very sleepy" just as we were dozing off, he dropped the watch he was swinging, and he said "OH shit"! Took all day to clean the room up.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:46 PM

ROTFL - ouch my sides have just split

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:52 PM

I think what hypnotism mainly does is give the hypnotized person a temporary excuse for behaving in an uninhibited way, in the belief that he's not responsible for his own actions -- the hypnotist is. "He made me do it."

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 02:18 AM

I've worked with hypnotism since introduced to it, by an uncle, at the age of about 12.

Powerful stuff, for positive or negative

You don't "forget" the hypnotic experience anymore than you "forget" last night's dream.

Personally, with over 30 years experience...I would not recommend it ....I got in and practiced, and still practice, self-hypnosis. Rudyard Kipling's "Kim" was a powerful scene.

Botton line: it is real, it does work, it is dangerous

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Morticia
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:07 PM

is it possible that you were somehow given a drug.....say, the infamous "date rape" drug, ro-something or other?

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:26 PM

Hypnosis - FAQs (even where they have a differing opinion they tell you what they think is the state of the art)

For a thoroughly sceptical position see Baker, They call it hypnosis

But for what you need, GUEST 1, the first link is better.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: TIA
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:39 PM

I think Jim Dixon is on the right track above. There's a wealth of information on this issue (start at www.csicop.com perhaps). As I understand it (not an expert, but doen much reading), hypnotism cannot be forced upon someone who is not receptive, and it mostly involves getting people to shed inhibitions, fears, or other defenses. I do think it has beneficial uses -- my father-in-law learned it as an OB-GYN to help nervous patients relax and swears by it for that purpose at least.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 03:19 PM

Thanks for the input everyone,
Morticia, given the rest of the people at the party("friends" I don't see anymore) that is entirely possible. It's an aspect I hadn't thought of.
This incident happened quite a few years ago, and for the most part I had put it behind me, recent depression and anxiety problems have brought it to the fore.I have seen my doctor and he's very supportive (this has been ongoing for several months).
Norton1, I appreciate the input but I'm sure you are a responsible Hypnotherapist, I'm (perhaps) dealing with people somewhat less than ethical.
Mark Clark, you were responsible enough not to go too far, do you think you had that much control over your subjects to make them do "anything"?
Guest 2:18, thats pretty much how I recall the incident, as a sort of dream, tho' I don't remember any suggestions or "you will feel sleepy" kind of routine. One thing I do remember is the room suddenly going quiet, and the party host saying "oh it's suddenly gone quiet, why's nobody talking, rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb" and then everyone talking again.(rhubarb is a word used by background actors to simulate conversation)
Thanks again for the information everyone, this has really helped me

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:25 PM

Well, yes. At least the suggestions we did leave always worked. But then we'd just leave suggestions to stand up on a certain cue, walk into the next room, come back, say something stupid … things like that. While the subjects were still in a trance, we we were more interested in asking them questions then trying to make them do things. We didn't try any stage stunts like making their bodies stiff and placing them across chair backs. As I said, we really didn't want to hurt anyone and we did read the sections of the books where we were cautioned against certain things. We'd direct them to walk around and pick things up but, as I said, nothing strange or dangerous. To tell the truth, we were astonished that hypnotism actually worked and was real and that we could learn to do it. When we realized what could actually happen, it scared us a little. We were only curious adolescents.

Probably the most amazing thing, to us at the time, was the post-hypnotic suggestion that would cause the subject to suddenly reenter the trance state upon seeing a certain cue. That would work even days after the initial session.

It's now understood that aparant memories of past lives aren't really that at all and The Search for Bridie Murphy has been debunked but back then it was all fresh and seemed plausable. The book was serialized in the daily newspapers; it was best thing since UFOs. We would try to get subjects to recall very early experiences but we were afraid to try to probe back before birth.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 06:43 PM

It's now understood that aparant memories of past lives aren't really that at all...by whom, Mark?

My experience with hypnotism is that I was fully aware of what I was doing and saying the whole time I was "under" which, from what I have studied, is as it should be. I have a difficult time believing that anyone could be made to do anything against their will while hypnotised. I do think there can be post-hypnotic suggestions, such as an aversion to smoking etc., but I also have a difficult time believing someone would go back into an actual "trance" upon the sound of a certain word. Just my opinion and perhaps too pedantic, at that.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:28 PM

I was a professional clinical hypnotist for 12 years with over 12,000 clients.
Private Message me if you wish.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,Gerald, 47 yrs of experience practising Hypn
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:19 PM

Hypnosis is a very useful and helpful tool in the hands of a careful and honest practitioner; on the other hand it can also be used by people who are uncaring and downright dishonest. Unfortunately, there are so many people using this very powerful form of therapy for entertainment nowadays that it is impossible to control the situation. The answer to your question in real terms is quite complex, by this I mean that there is more than one possible reason for your problem. One of which has already been mentioned before i.e., Drugs! But the facts regarding hypnosis are that not everyone is susceptible to suggestion to the same degree, meaning that there are roughly about three stages to which people respond during hypnotic suggestion. The first stage is a very light one, whereby a person would not be as deeply hypnotised as the other two, about six out of ten people are in this category, the second stage, the mediums, they are fairly good subjects and can be treated therapeutically via suggestion to quite some degree of success. But the last subjects, who number only about one in ten, are capable of the very deepest trance state, and it is only these persons who are used by stage Hypnotists and the like, to demonstrate their powers.   So it would mean that one would have to be first given some form of susceptibility test by a practicing Hypnotist, to determine to what stage a person would be likely to go, and only then if you were one of the very deep trance subjects, would you be able to be given a posthypnotic suggestion to which you would feel compelled to act upon at a later time or date. None of this is a very simple quick and easy thing to perform unless you are a completely willing participant in what is taking place. Remember, no one can be hypnotized if they do not agree to take part in the performance in the first place. After you have taken part in such an act, and only then providing that you are one of the very best subjects that I have described above, yes, you can be told to do things that you would not normally do, but only if it were within your normal code of ethics would you act upon it, and you would not always remember having done this if the Hypnotist had suggested to you that you should not do so. If all these things that I have described have taken place in public, or in the company of others, then they would be able to tell you these answers. Of course if it has taken place in private, then it would be only the person who had hypnotised you that would be held responsible, and remember, it would not be the first time that an unscrupulous hypnotist has been successfully sued in court! I leave you with this sobering thought, and hope that I have been able to shed some light on the subject, of which I have spent a lifetime in the study and practice. Yours sincerely, Gerald. Hypnotist.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:07 PM

Kat, I suppose there are believers and I really didn't mean to offend anyone's spiritual sensibilities. Here is a link on the Bridie Murphy story with some related links that, if not the final word, are at least well researched and sincere.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 10:41 PM

Thanks, Mark. No offense taken. I am familiar with the Bridey Murphy story, but it's been years. Thanks for the link.

katof9livesatleast*bg*

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:08 PM

Thanks for the laugh,Kendall!

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:05 PM

Thanks again for the info,
Donuel I can't PM you as I'd rather keep my anonymity right now, but thanks anyway.
Guest Gerald, thanks, a most informative post. I don't know if I'm a one in ten type subject, I don't KNOW that I was hypnotised even, part of the reason for bringing up this topic was to find out what is possible.Hypothetically speaking would it be possible for an unscrupulous person, with access to drugs (ryhypnol or stronger)to hypnotise a (for arguments sake)"medium" type person? It also occurrs to me that I might be clutching at straws to explain an behavourial aberration.Bottom line is I don't know.
I didn't want to go to the party in the first place, I had a feeling "in my water" that something bad was going to happen,nothing specific just a feeling.I now know that those people who I thought were friends at the time,weren't really, I'm in something of a void at the moment, waiting to hear from the medical prof.to see if I can see someone to talk this out.
Apart from that, I have a disabled wife,children, and Christmas to deal with but this is not just about seasonal stress,I've never felt like this before,and I have a similar feeling "in my water" something is going to happen.
My thanks to all contributors,this thread has helped me put things in some sort of perspective.This whole site is often a source of inspiration to me, I've seen how it has helped others,my gratitude to those who make it work, who knows I might even send some money.
Bye for now, will check back later.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 07:02 PM

Guest 3:26--I didn't mean to make light of your problem(Kendall just made me ROTFLMAO).I have been hypnotically regressed to a past life 3 times. In my experience, I was always "aware" on 2 levels. I was always conscious of my body and surroundings while experiencing the past. I don't believe you lose your "free will" while hynotized. There's a lot of good advice above. Hope you get this issue settled satisfactorily soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:43 PM

"...is in fact a fascinatingly complex combination of social compliance, relaxation and suggestibility"- from the link that Wolfgang gave. That definition seems a pretty good description of hypnosis even though the author's premise is that the phenomenon isn't quite real.

But the language above reminds me of the person who said that he doesn't believe all those plays were written by William Shakespeare- he thinks it was another guy by the same name...

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 04:06 AM

Wolfgang, thanks for taking the trouble to post those sites, on first reading I was unable to access the first site but have just gone back to it and it made interesting reading, I have bookmarked it and will read it in full when I have more time.
guest jaze, I didn't take offence, Kendall can be very funny sometimes, if you want a real laugh the first 3 times I read his post I didn't get that it was a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 09:01 AM

I remember seeing a 'cabaret' hypnotist working a private party -- one of the tricks was the one Mark mentioned above, making a very tall guy (a policeman as it happened) lie rigid face up between two chairs with people sitting along his body. The thing is, while he was hypnotising his subjects, a woman in the crowd appeared to go under the influence as well. I brought this to his attention and he brought her out of the trance and stressed that it would be very dangerous for a member of the audience to go away in that state. As I said, this was a private party and neither the policeman or the woman in the crowd could have been stooges. Maybe something like that happened to Guest 3.26.
I also worked with Paul McKenna when he was a DJ and just starting out as a hypnotist, and saw his stage show several times. As Gerald suggested above, this would involve whittling a large crowd of volunteers down to a few very susceptible subjects. He tried to hypnotise me once, but I didn't go under, even though I really wanted to try it!

BJ

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 08:51 AM

Gerald, or Donuel, or anyone, could you confirm or refute the idea that an unexpectant person could be druged (rohypnol or similar ),hypnotised,given instructions to carry out, and then told to forget what happened?
This is still ongoing for me, thanks for your help.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 02 - 06:34 PM

Hypnotism is nothing more than a con game in which people who are stupid enough to belive in it become actors to try and do what is expected. It is all one big crock of s**t.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 03:28 AM

Such an erudite answer, it may take me some while to understand some of the technical terms employed, but thank for your deconstructive comments.
I still need an answer to my post of 14 Dec, 08:51. My thanks to those who are trying to HELP.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 03:17 PM

OK, simpler this time for the benefit of those who believe in hypnotism:

IT IS A BUNCH OF CRAP!

And that has been demonstrated time after time scientific analysis.

QUIT WASTING YOUR TIME WITH IT!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 03:36 PM

Stop it, Clinton. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Cluin
Date: 15 Dec 02 - 04:08 PM

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

Remember, Comrade...
Miles to go before you sleep.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,Mickey191
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 11:58 AM

Can Any of the experts tell me if hypnotism could be used to regulate sleep? Have a friend who sleeps maybe 4 hours each nite-and is in an emotional state over other issues. This lack of sleep must also be a contributory factor.Anyone know of a good book on self-hypnosis?
Good one Kendall! Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: TIA
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 12:41 PM

Guest above is putting it quite harshly, but there is a small particle of truth lodged in the sledgehammer. Scientific studies have shown quite clearly that hypnotism subjects are performing voluntary actions. There is no evidence whatsoever that one can be "forced" to do anything during or following hypnosis.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 03:05 PM

Bottom line - one must still give permission for the process to work. Either consciously or unconsciously (such as the woman in the audience).

If one does not believe that it will work it will not. That is taking drugs and alcohol out of the equation. Drugs and alcohol are another whole bag of tricks -

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 04:20 PM

"That is taking drugs and alcohol out of the equation. Drugs and alcohol are another whole bag of tricks -"
Norton1, that is what I'm trying to ascertain, I knowingly took the alcohol- tho' not enough to be reeling,just high. I don't know if drugs were put in my drink, IF they were (Rohypnol or similar) would that be enough to hypnotise me without my permission or knowledge.
This whole thing has driven me to seek professional help and have an appointment in a couple of days with a psychiatrist, I just thought I'd ask mudcat opinion first to get more information on a subject that he might not know too much about anyway.That is to say, his experiences are only likely to be on a proffesional level not what I think may have happened to me. Some of the people at that party had easy access to exotic substances, I thought them friends then, I don't think that now.
I can't exactly 'phone the Intelligence services and ask "have you got anything that would do this?"
I don't know if I'm putting the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle in the right places or if I'm just making the pieces fit.
thanks again for all your information, it is helping.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Raedwulf
Date: 16 Dec 02 - 05:24 PM

I have used auto-hypnosis. I'm not as expert as some who have already offered their opinions, but FWIW...

From what little I know of Rohypnol & suchlike I doubt that the state that you would be in after a dose of that kind of stuff would be conducive to putting you into a trance.

Equally, although any self-respecting hypnotist or book on the subject will tell you not to experiment with hypnosis (self- or otherwise) having drunk, I doubt that alcohol could induce a state where you would be both receptive to hypnotism *and* unable to remember anything about it.

Suggestion: If it doesn't give you a screaming fit, it might be worth asking your psych. if he can recommend a good hypnotist, because a good hypnotist ought to be able to take you back through your memories to the point where this 'incident' occurred, in order to find out whether there is any substance to your fears/memories. The only danger at this point, as far as I can see, is that you may have convinced yourself of all sorts of nastiness by now, so that you genuinely believe something happened, regardless of whether it did or not.

With all due respect, it looks as if you might rather have simply wound yourself up (or allowed someone rather nasty to wind you up) to something near breaking point.

Answer this question (for yourself, not for the board) - what was it that you were actually supposed to have done? Was it *really* that bad? Hands up anyone on this board that hasn't, at some time, made a complete & utter pillock of themselves... [looks round, sees no hands] See? Whatever it was you did, there's plenty who've survived things more mortifying. If you can say "yes I might have done that under outside influences, I wish I hadn't, & I'll damn well try & make sure I never do it again" there's no-one has the right to beat up on you.

Which is basically what your psych. will try & tell you in 5000 more words & at considerable extra expense! *g* Try & be more relaxed about it. You can't undo it, it's done. You're not going to put yourself in a situation where it can happen again if you can possibly help it. People can only use shame/embarassment/whatever as a weapon against you IF YOU *LET* THEM!!! If you're prepared to say "Yeah, so what?", shrug your shoulders & admit your mistakes, there's very little anyone can do to harm you.

Whatever is at the root of this - best of luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 02:48 PM

Raedwulf, sane and sensible advice, my thanks for your words.I hope this will all go away soon, it is however still too real for me to dismiss just yet. I plan to write everything down, just in case, and to take other precautions that seem wise at the moment.
Trouble is I know too much about some people who now have a respectable exterior.We will see what we will see, or what we are allowed to see.I know anyone reading this will think I'm off my head, and maybe that is the case.I'm sure it's provided amusement for some.
I'm so damn tired right now, will check back tomorrow if anyone has any additions to make.
Thanks again to all the positive replies to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,GERALD,HYPNOTIST.
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 07:52 PM

Hi Gerald here again, having re-read your follow up mail right through once again, I have come to the conclusion that your only way out of the situation which you now find yourself in, is to follow up upon the very good and honest advice given to you by Raedwulf, {my compliments} and that is to see a good Hypno-Annalist, who can then determine just what your problem really is. Speaking as an accomplished Hypno-therapist of many years standing, I do know that it is a very hard task for any Hypnotist to work with anyone who is under the influence of alcohol, as one must be able to concentrate deeply upon what he is saying without distraction for quite some length of time in order to pick up the theme of the induction, {drunken people find it very hard to concentrate} with drugs it is another matter, they have to be of the Hypnotic type such as Sodium Pentothal or allied drugs, administered by injection {you would obviously know if that had taken place}but, having said all that, I can tell you that it is quite possible for an Hypnotist to place a posthypnotic suggestion in the mind of a good deep trance subject{of which I have mentioned previously} for him or her to react upon at some later date, or pre-arranged interval's, completely without the knowledge of the subject whatsoever. This entire sort of thing I have experimented with in the past with 100% success. But in order for these things to take place, then some form of trigger device, or key word, has to be used to incline the subject to carry out the mission. I personally have experienced one of these sorts of helpful therapeutic type posthypnotic suggestions to last for as long as 19 years, and indeed it is still operative today, but I must stress that it is completely with the participating subjects willing consent. So do follow the advice given, and contact a Practicing Hypnotist as soon as is possible within your own time, and then he and he alone can put your mind at rest by determining whether or not you are one of the somnambulistic type person's who could possibly be used in this manner. And thereby put to an end to the mental torture and misery that you appear to have been experiencing, for it is always easier to discuss a problem such as yours in private, face to face than to try to decipher the causes in public… And now to end with an answer to all the unbeliever's out there, consider this, if you were lying injured on the road, after a motor accident, writhing in agony, with a possible broken limb or two, would you think it would be possible for you to be conned into believing that you had just received a pain reliving injection which would leave you feeling pain-free, until the arrival of the paramedics sometime later, with the real thing. No, I am perfectly sure that you could not! But that is exactly what did happen when one day I was the only person around to witness that scenario, and was able to do just that with the young man concerned. Sometime afterwards I came into contact with him again, and the first thing that he asked me was where I had got the Anaesthetic from at the time. And this I can assure you, he was just as much an unbeliever in Hypnotism as you. That is he was, until that fateful day. I rest my case. Gerald, Lifelong Hypnotist.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Abby Sale
Date: 17 Dec 02 - 10:23 PM

Good story, Gerald. I don't have anything like that much time or professional practice but I did work intensely in both clinical and experimental hypnosis for some years. I think it takes both experiences to get a comfortable handle on it. Certainly no dis intended but generally, experimenters and clinicians don't speak to each other or read each other's articles.

We came home once to find a teen-age girl who had taken a full bottle of sleeping pills. Possibly she had timed the act so we would find her but we lived far out in the country and it took the ambulance some 45 minutes to arrive. She was passing out and breathing and heart rate nearly stopped. Fortunately, I'd previously given her a suggestion that she would go into "trance" whenever I said a cue word. I was thus able to hypnotize her with the single word and suggest she was wide awake. It actually worked well enough she walked to the ambulance when it finally came. They did find the pills when they pumped her stomach so the whole thing was real. I like to think this actually saved her life -- but who knows?

One significant experimenter I knew on hypnosis, Martin Orne, believed it didn't exist - yet he used it daily and accomplished much with it. I believe hypnosis is a "small" event but real. I've seen it induce many, many situations that simply would not normally happen. BUT, it can never induce the impossible - all hypnotic phenomena are events that frequently occur in a "normal" state. Just not so easily controlled.

Ok. Guest: Post-hypnotic amnesia (not recalling what happened) is a function of either the suggestions given by the hypnotist or the "set" - the expectations of the subject; not of hypnosis per se. If the hypnotist simply says "you will remember," then you will. BTW, sleepiness or lethargy is also a function of suggestion and not at all of hypnosis per se.

I'd take that suggestion to see a therapist. Make life easy and go in relaxed in the first place (bring a friend to "protect" you or have a drink or two, if needed [but not 3 or 4!]). Have the therapist be sure to give you two suggestions along with what ever else goes on.

1) That you will remember everything that happens in the session.
2) That you will always remember the feeling of being hypnotized...(it is the same as the state you feel when falling asleep normally - between sleep and wake) and that you will always recognize it happening to you and that you will NEVER become hypnotized accidentally (happens all the time, eg falling asleep in church or "white line hypnosis" when driving at night) or when you don't specifically want to be.

These should always be given anyway but in your case will ensure no future problems occur. Really, I think there's a one in a million chance you've hypnotized without your knowledge and that "a lot odd incidents" could possibly be related to it. Less than one in a million.

Really (in spite of some of the claims above) it is quite possible to force people to do things (at least brief, simple things not complex behavior over a long period) genuinely against their normal morality or inclinations. Also possible to hypnotize people without their knowledge that it's being done (without using drugs at all.)

I read of these events in the legit academic experimental literature and then successfully did both myself several times. But the point is that they are very hard to do, usually don't work, are time consuming and generally dopey. If someone really has it in for you it's far easier just to hit you over the head with a baseball bat and be done with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 04:37 AM

Thank-you Gerald and Abby,
Had I been given sodium pentathol (I know it must be hard to get hold of, but these guys would have access to anything) and if it was by injection, I could be told not to notice it "must be a gnat bite ".Sure it would be easier just to hit me with a baseball bat, but that would raise too many questions, better if I'm in a crowded pub, a fight breaks out, my nose gets broken and rammed into my brain,(the most common cause of accidental death) anyone in the know would have been told "he deserves a good hiding for what he did" and later "it wasn't meant to go that far"
My previous good character and reputation has been eroded carefully over time and I don't think anyone will have any sympathy.Everyone's too busy these days to even think something odd about what "happened".

To repeat two "odd" things I remember,
1) The party atmosphere went from normal hubbub to immediate silence and the host saying "Oh it's suddenly gone quiet" these things do happen but I remember it quite distinctly as being odd.
2) The woman concerned in the original situation just walked up to the group I was with and immediately started talking, no introduction, no "hi who are you" no nothing, even tho' I'd never met her before and almost mid sentence, as if she had been part of the conversation from the begining. I suppose people do just walk up to strangers and start talking at parties, but they usually say "Hello I'm so and so"
I will see the psych. and ask to see a hypnotherapist, but I'm also going to make copies of my fears and leave them with true friends.
Gerald Abby and Raedwulf, you have been most helpful, thankyou all.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 05:42 AM

P.S.
I think the "trigger" word was used sometime after the woman started talking.After that all I can recall is the womans face glaring back at me as she left the party,and thinking a combination of "how could I have been so stupid, what did I do, or why did I do that" not a specific thought just a general thought.
I can remeber that I was not even slightly drunk as I was able to help someone else at the party be sick into a bowl, and that when I couldn't get home from the party I walked a mile through town to try and hitch,(couldn't afford a taxi) and a mile back when I couldn't get a lift.
I have been set up by experts, and can see no way out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 18 Dec 02 - 08:55 AM

Best of luck 3.26.
I do hope your fears prove groundless. You say that you felt on the way there that something bad was going to happen. I wonder whether that feeling has distorted a small incident into seeming much worse. Perhaps you were unwell, or having some sort of panic attack during the evening - for instance, a high temperature can cast a nightmarish pall over things when you try to remember back. Even overtiredness can distort perceptions. I don't mean to trivialise it - those things can have an unexpectedly big effect. Even random stress can make things very strange.
If it turns out to be the case that you were set up by these people, then they surely must have very little credibility.

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26 (update)
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 06:08 AM

I saw the psychiatrist on Dec. 19th.
The sleeping pills I have been prescribed (Zopiclone) are intended for use over a period of 4 weeks, decreasing over the next 2,max.6 weeks. I have been on them for 10 years. They can induce paranoid depression, the psych. said he had a patient who calmly told him she was having breakfast in the kitchen when a man walked in, unzipped the back of her head, took her brain out and massaged it for a while before replacing it.This didn't happen to me, I merely thought "they were trying to kill me". It was so real it was surreal.
I have been on antidepressants since then and reducing the zopiclone dose, I felt reassured with the explanation, but am not out of the woods yet, I think it's going to take some while to get my confidence back. I don't know how long the pills take before they start to work and am not feeling much benefit after nearly 3 weeks.
My sincere thanks to those who helped,please keep your fingers crossed for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 06:19 AM

fingers crossed 3.26
It sounds like you've got the solution there, and its just going to take a while for things to settle.

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: Bagpuss
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 06:24 AM

Sounds like a big relief for you and I hope things start to get better now you have some sort of explanation. It is a disgrace that these type of drugs, meant for short term or occasional use, are allowed by doctors to be used long term - often by adding them to your repeat prescription list and never reviewed. Not that I want you to get upset over something else when you are just getting over these problems, but if I were you I would enquire of your prescribing doctor how this was allowed to happen, and what procedures they are going to put in place to prevent this sort of thing happening again (to you or anyone else).

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,Raedwulf
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 07:31 AM

Woooof! Well, that explains a great deal! Glad to hear you're on the up. Continuing good luck to ye & fingers are duly crossed! *g*

Subject: BS: Reopening thread on hypnotism
From: GUEST,Original poster, 3:26
Date: 16 May 04 - 04:01 AM

I just wanted to make some people aware of a programme on british TV on Wednesday night channel 5 10 pm about some of the nightmares surrounding hypnotism.

---

thread reopened.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: GUEST,3:26
Date: 16 May 04 - 04:30 AM

Thanks Joe, I've never really got it out of my head that something along the lines that I was talking about happened to me that night,
we'll see what the programme says about other people's experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: Hypnotism
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 May 04 - 09:06 AM

I use hypnotic tapes and have found them very useful. They are two sided, one has someone talking, the other has music, with the same message imposed subliminally.

I have listened to a few different ones over the years, and put them on at night to help me sleep. I get them over the interenet through a company called Potentials Unlimited.

I think hypnotism is like anything, open to abuse by the practitioner, if they are manipulative or incompetent. I have found these tapes very useful and helpful. Its expensive, thats why I prefer the tapes/CDs. I went to a hypnotist once, it cost a lot and I found the tapes are just as effective.

freda