kat and the apnea..did ye sleep? Buteyko in US!

Subject: BS: kat and the Apnea study...did ye sleep?
From: Alba
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 04:34 AM

Kat was in Hospital last night for a sleep study relating to the Apnea diagnosis.
So how did it go Kat ma darlin.....how many Sheep did you count!
Do they let Sheep into Hospitals for the purpose of Sleep Studies?
Hope it's those Serta Sheep. I love them...I want one:>)
Thinking of you Sis and hoping that all went well and that some answers to the issue are found.
All baby steps to Wellville and GETAWAY 2005.
Love Ya
Blessings and Light
Jude
ps: Here is a pic of some Serta sheep for anyone who may need a countdown:>) Takes a few seconds to come up on screen...lol so without further a ewe..sorry ado...
BAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 04:38 AM

Cor talk abaht skiving! going to hospital to SLEEP! Sheesh, at least wait until yer sick gal *HEE HEE*

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 04:48 AM

Bert! How flippant! Sheep Apnea is very baaaaaad.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Layah
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 06:58 AM

My Dad just has that test last week. I thought it would be exactly the kind of test he would like: one he could sleep through. But they kept waking him up to attach things to his head and put things in his mouth and it all sounded rather uncomfortable.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: jeffp
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 08:39 AM

Considering that it's only 6:37am in Colorado, I'm pretty sure that kat's still abed at this time.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 09:03 AM

I had that test. They put electrodes on my head and I was wired up to a bunch of equipment. Everything considered I slept rather well.

Then I had is again, but this time they just hooked a thing to my finger (index) and let it record my blood oxygen levels. Didn't even have to go to the hospital for that one. At least, not until I rolled over and clobbered my wife with the recorder -- THEN I had to go to the hospital, but they stitched me right up.

Neither time did the instruments say I had the Apnea.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 09:04 AM

Well, actually, jeffp...I was awake and done by 5am!**bg** Just in time for all of the phunny stuphph in this thread. You are all so baaaaaddd!

Thanks so much, Jude and the rest of ya. I had a couple of rough goes, esp. when we went from diagnosis to treatment with a small mask over my nose and no mouth breathing. Felt as though I would suffocate which the tech and I fought hard to keep from causing a full-blowing(sic) panic attack, but we did succeed.

Of the seven kinds of sleep apnea, I have three, and contrary to some popular beliefs, being a plump ewe doesn't enter into it as much as I thought.

It really is going to help tremendously. My heart rate went lower than it has been in years, yet the O2, etc. stayed up where it needed to be! He told me he'd had two other women in the past three weeks, in-patients at hospital, who'd come in with chf which was attributable to sleep apnea. So, maybe my poor old valve isn't the only culprit.

Anyway, it was a bit uncomfortable, and, yes, they do wake you frequently, but I was kind of semi-awake anyway, or so I thought, so it didn't bother me, too much. After we put the mask on I got two GOOD hours of solid sleep which was wonderful! The worse thing was my hair having gooey stuff in it to keep the leads on and not being able to comb it out. Just got out of the shower and am now going to go ta bed!

Toodle-oo!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: jeffp
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 09:08 AM

Glad it went well, kat. When they get it sorted out for you I'm sure you will notice a wonderful change in your general energy levels as you get real rest at night. Glad things are looking up for you.

jeffp

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 11:04 AM

Rest well, Miss Kitty.
No Darth Vader outfit for you? I was counting on having you wear it at the Getaway!

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: dwditty
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 11:16 AM

Kat,

I, too, am a midnight masked marauder. The mask works, plain and simple. Turns out I was waking myself up every 20-30 seconds preventing any hope of REM sleep. To add my two cents, I suggest you force them to prescribe a heated humidifier to the CPAP. This will avoid dryness and/or frozen sinuses.

Sleep apnea manifests itself in all kinds of health problems. Any snorers should goggle up an apnea test...it only takes two minutes.

dw

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: open mike
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 12:34 PM

ooh maybe i will take a pair of those goggles
(should i google goggle to find them?)
with me to the next festival i go to
where there are dormitories to sleep in.
Some world class snorers ended up in my
cabin...richter scale!! i was hoping we were
not on the Fault line...praying to St Andreas.

man --- those google ads below say "stop snoring
yourself to death" and "....sleep enhancer"
it is soppky like it seems as if big brother is watching
when they seem to know what the post is about and
try to sell you something that co-incides with tthe topic..

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:00 PM

Your right gnu, but kat knows that I love her dearly and that I'm just trying to make her laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 08:54 PM

Kat,

You say He had two other women in the past 3 weeks.

Does that mean you were the third? I expect this sleep-over thing wasn't a baaaad as you imagined it might be. And all those sheep are no problem for us guys from Utah---if ya know what I mean. Well, we can't pull the wool over your eyes I guess.

Now you'll have to sleep with a machine. But from what I've seen on the www those can be fun.

Love,

Art

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 09:23 AM

**bg** with Art.:-)

Finally got the machine yesterday. Last night we were all exhuasted for various reasons. So, I decided to mess with it, today, to try to get used to it. I have a real problem with all of the straps over my head and hair, PLUS a chin strap, as well as the mask.

Any advice/experience with what to do with long hair and one of these? I have to have my hair off of my face AND unbound or I get headaches. Have any of you had any success with a canula or anything else which just fits over the ears, or can they not get a good enough seal?

I KNOW this will make a big difference, just having a bit of a panic over something on my head and face.:-)

Thanks a bunch!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Alba
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 09:38 AM

Jeez Kat....I was just going to find this thread and ask these questions for ye!.....Talk about tuned in!!!

Hopefully someone here on the Cat can help you out on this one.
I however am powerless in advice department.
So I am Thinking of you and hoping you can find a way to make this work for you with the minimium of discomfort.
Rooting for you Girlfriend
Light and Love
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 12:40 PM

I had a CPAP machine a week or so ago.....after getting used to it...2 days.....it was brilliant and I slept better then I have ever done for months.

In the Uk there is no chin strap......

But a rotten thing to have, a doctor friend found himself in the ditch in a car....I am convinced that the vast majority of accidents on motorways (freeways to the USA) are due to apnea.

Best regards,


Dave Eyre

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 12:50 PM

I'd suggest loose plaits, try it and see if the headaches are linked to the sleep problem rather than hair too tightly tied.

Getting more than kat napneas now?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 01:16 PM

Thanks, Alba, Dave, LtS,a nd PMers.

Anudder Mudder PM'd me about an oral device which needs no straps, so I am going to call, Monday, about getting one of those. I didn't even know there was such a thing!

I also found another one here. In the meantime, I am getting a bit more than *katnapeas* (Ta, LtS, I like that!) thanks to xanax!**bg**

Thanks a bunch!

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 04:29 PM

An oral device to help you sleep? I thought that was a student lecture or a church sermon!

Good luck with it Kat.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Mar 05 - 04:35 PM

Good news no matter how you cut it! Karen is really after me to go to the Sleep Clinic but hell, I get three hours or so a night! She says I fall asleep in the middle of conversations ans doing other things but I thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiink she's full of shit.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Arkie
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 01:14 AM

I've been using the CPap for close to a year now and while I can't say it makes a difference my wife insists that it does. There is supposed to be some minor surgery that eliminates the need for the machine and there was something in the news about a dentist fitting a patient with a device that is placed inside the mouth to provide relief. I can't provide any help with the hair since I don't have enough to worry about. The options posted above should help eliminate that problem. You might want to check with the people who supply the machine to see what options they offer and check several companies if they are available. Some technicians know far more than others about the fitting and use of the machine.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: GUEST,Anne Croucher
Date: 06 Mar 05 - 09:09 PM

I use a CPAP machine, have had it for some years now and can't sleep properly without it.

I have cut my hair short now, but when it was really long I gathered it together at the nape of my neck in one hand, then drew the bunch up so I could hold the ends of the hair up above the level where the bands would lie.

Now if you let go of the nape hair you can put the other hand through the bands from the top down and take over holding the hair with that hand, you can draw the bands over your head and get the mask in place. The hair is folded up under the bands but their elasticity allows enough movement, so there was no tension on it.

If the hair is really long it would fold double easily - the bands on my mask are far longer than necessary

Anne

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Mar 05 - 06:38 AM

Kat, when you get the new one-- sending the old CPAP to Spawville so they can fight over it? :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 02:27 AM

I never had an *old* one, Susan, this is my first.:-)

Anne and Arkie, thanks so much for your comments and suggestions.

I have tried the gathering of hair in the back, but the way my hair is, baby fine, and the tossing and turning I do, cause it to tangle and get caught up no matter what I do.

I have talked to the techs and the docs' people, as well as done some more research online. I have two things which I've asked the doc for prescriptions for, one of which is a nasal canula which can be worn over the ears (not really comfy for side sleepers like me, OR in front with a small strap across the nape of the neck, something I think I could tolerate. The other thing is an actual cool cap which I could tuck my hair up in. I don't like the band across the forehead, but it'd be a lot better than a lot of straps. When I tried one of those I felt like the "man in the iron mask!" (The way our insurance is, it will take a week or so to get either of these in. Will let you know how they do after that.)

Now, for Spaw...I KNOW how you sleep, or NOT, and I agree with Karen, esp. when I read about the bennies to the h-e-a-r-t, so you will now have me all over yer arse to get this checked out, too, Peaches, so get crackin'!**bg**

luvya'll and thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Allan C.
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:18 PM

kat, see if you can locate one of those pantyhose-type caps in which to tuck your hair. I suspect many beauty shops and beauty supply stores have 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:55 PM

The cutoff top of a knee-high is a pretty good hair-catcher, even worn loosely, Kat. Has a certain amount of traction yet doesn't seem to break the hair. So, braid and then fasten with that?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 10 Mar 05 - 05:50 AM

Hey, darlin' I hope you're adjusting to this thing and that sleep is coming easier!

Thinking of you lots-

love,

Allison

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: bavis
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 08:56 AM

Hi Kat,
You and I diagnosed sround the same time. Hope you are coping ok now. Very curious about the seven kinds of apnea you spoke about I had only heard of obstructive which I have and I think its called central which is the one where you need to have oxygen. That's the scary one where the brain forgets to make you breath.

yours bavis

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Mar 05 - 09:31 AM

Thanks for the suggestions, Allan and Susan. At present I am going to be geetting the nasal aire canulla and see how it works out.

2Ls'...I love you and thanks!

bavis, I cannot find all seven listed on line, but I have a feeling some are offshoots of the two major, which are "obstructive sleep apnea is due to a blockage in the airways. Central sleep apnea is caused by a problem with the nerves that control breathing. In some cases a mixture of both types of sleep apnea may occur." That's according to one doctor site I found.

For myself, the tech told me I had obstructive, shallow breather, and one other which I cannot remember at the moment, sorry.:-)

Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 06:25 AM

FWIW, I have now used the CPAP for three nights, for about 4 hours each night, using the nasal aireII cannula, linked above. It seems to be doing a good job and is tolerable, up to a point. I figure I will gradually work up to a whole night.

I cannot say I've noticed a huge improvement, yet, but I have noticed subtle things which I think could be quite significant in the long run: lots less tossing and turning, MUCH less aching muscles, esp. in my neck and shoulders, etc. In short, better quality of sleep. I am mostly relieved at getting past the psycholigical and physical hurdle of having something on my face and binding up my head with straps!

THANKS to each and every one of you who helped with suggestions, support, and PM's! I would highly recommend the nasal aireII.

luvyakat

P.S. Forgot to say with the NAII, I've traded in the Dumbo's mom image for that of "I am the Walrus!" thanks to Rog's quick *wit*...LOL

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 08:22 AM

Kat,

I've been CPAP'ing for a decade or more. I think your plan of working into it gradually is a good plan. I get along with my nose mask pretty well (no chin strap). I noticed the improvement in sleep right away. And SPAW, get thee to a sleep clinic. The real danger of sleep apnea (besides falling asleep at any quiet moment) is strain on the old cadiovascular system. When I had my sleep test, I stopped breathing about every three minutes. The process described to me is: 1) throat collapses, blocking wind pipe, 2) you stop breathing, 3) Oxygen level in the brain drops, 4) brain cries out for more oxygen and initiates the "startle" reflex, 5) the "startle" gets the lungs working and the throat open.   The "startle" usually doesn't wake the sleeper, but as DWDITTY said, this constant "startle" keeps you from ever sinking into REM sleep. For me, the effect was waking up after 8 hours sleep feeling like I hadn't slept at all. I fell asleep during the day at inopportune times: driving the car, meetings at work, at conferences, and chatting with my girlfriend. All of these symptoms have disappeared since I have used the CPAP device. Surgery does seem to help for some cases, but not most.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 06:35 PM

Damn and double damn! After my doc agreeing with me that the sleep apnea probably was from congestive heart failure, he okayed my going off the CPAP over a year ago, after the chf was fixed with the new valve.

Now, because of a disruption of sleep over the past month, he had me do an at-home nocturnal pulse-ox test which shows my O2 levels are good (yea!)but there is still some sleep apnea. Wants me to try the CPAP for two weeks. I am loathe to put that darn thing on again. I had just as much trouble sleeping with it as without and I had been sleeping pretty well without for quite some time up until I injured my shoulder and neck in November. (Also, my husband has not noticed my waking up gulping for air as I did pre-surgery and I am not sleepy in the daytime.)

Anyway, in looking for alternatives, I came across an article on Intraoral dental appliances. Have any of you used one of these?

Thanks, once again, my friends.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 08:26 PM

Kat - I was tested for sleep apnea a few months ago, & was diagnosed as having mild sleep apnea. I don't use any machines (tho 2 friends do & would not be without them) as I did a Butekyo breathing course.

Apart from the thingies glued into my waist length hair & the other monitors glued elsewhwere, the test was hell as I could barely cope with being in an enclosed warm environment - I always sleep with a window open & curtins parted & usually need air blowing on me in airconditioned places.

I also had my first recorded incident of tachycardia which the techician found interesting, but the specialist did not think to pass on to my doctor, which might have prevented a number of similar incidents later that year & 2 visits to the emergency dept of my local hospital till it was finaly diagnosed. (Tachycardia is not a heart disease, merely an intermittant electrical fault that causes the heart to race & slow down & can only be diagnosed by heart monitors cos it happend so quickly.)

I did not warm to the sleep doctor, to put it mildly, as I found him very disrespectful of my wishes. I was asking about other treatments, he was ignoring me & overwhelming me with mechanical treatments (CPAP or dental thingy) & when I saw the report he wrote to my Dr I was really pissed off. He said he'd 'recommended' trying a CPAP & thought I wouldn't, so I could come back (ie. pay another $130) & he'd tell me more.

I did think of a complaint to the Medical Board, but decided to leave it & concentrate on my breathing. I couldn't see any point in wearing a mask that covers my face, or a dental appliance in my mouth, when breathing properly day & night achieves the same result.

The only way I'll know I no longer have sleep apnea will be another test, but I will go to another clinic for that test. One day.

sandra

Buteyko technique

...........

Buteyko basics

Even though we cannot train you in Buteyko method over the Web we can help you. Precisely, you can help yourself NOW! Perhaps you have heard most of following recommendations already - they are all quite obvious and simple. But take it SERIOUSLY, please.

   * Always keep your mouth shut for breathing;
   * Never sleep on your back;
   * Never do deep breathing exercises;
   * When you are jogging (or playing any sport) never open your mouth;
   * Even if you are breathing through your nose try to breathe less.

Even following this simple things can help you to reduce your suffering. It will give you an idea how powerful breathing is!

...............................................................
Information about Buteyko & the practitioner who taught me - Tess Graham who trained with Dr. Buteyko Russia in 1991 & has been practicing since and has helped a lot of elite athletes from the Australian Institute of Sport.

pic of Tess & info about BBC doco on Buteyko (Prof Mitchell shows himself to be an idiot - my patients were not as sick as I diagnosed them, & therefore they weren't miracle cures!!)
radio story

BBC article

Medical Journal of Australia article

..............

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Question
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 09:45 PM

On November 1, I lost a friend who died in his sleep. They have decided that it was due to the sleep apnea that had been previously diagnosed.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Alice
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 10:34 PM

kat, I think my dentist recently recommended something like that to keep me from chipping my teeth in my sleep. I followed links to the dental sleep med site, but it did not show or describe exactly what the dental apnea treatment is. If it is like the one recommended to me, it fits over just the front teeth to keep the bite from completely coming together while sleeping. Since about '98, I've had my front teeth chip three times in my sleep.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Alice
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 10:35 PM

He has repaired the chips so the teeth look great, but he wants me to try this for prevention. I think it is about $300.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Question
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 10:39 PM

Word of warning: My brother has sleep apnea and wears a mask to sleep. It works. But one evening he woke choking and grabbing at the mask. My sister-in-law thought he was having a heart attack. She grabbed the mask off of him and jumped into CPR position only to discover that their dog had farted into the intake valve.

Neither got any sleep that night. They couldn't stop laughing.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Alice
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 10:42 PM

mary, that is laugh out loud funny.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:09 PM

I remember that story from somewhere, Sins!

Alice, thanks. I have the name of a dentist who does these. Will call him next week and see what he says.

Sandra, thank you! I am impressed by your endorsement of that technique, but I wonder about some of the recommendations. I will explore the links you gave before I try it. I have always done deep breathing exercises, esp. for meditation and gi gong. I also have been told I am a shallow breather, so what would that mean with the suggestion to try to breath less even through my nose? It seems I already do this? I'll go see if I can find some answers. Thanks, again!

Ebbie, my condolences on the loss of your friend. I don't think it has ever been that severe for me, but I will keep it in mind. It's weird, now, because Rog was often awakened when I would gasp for air, pre-surgery and I've been fine up until late Nov. He still doesn't hear me gulping for air like I used to, so we both really wonder about the whole thing.

Like Sandra, if I ever have another bona-fide overnight test done at a clinic, it will NOT be at the one I went to before. That fellah had no concept of what to do with long hair or what his goop did to it, as well as the close and warm room, just as Sandra experienced!

Thanks, ladies,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Question
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:29 PM

Hardi has peed his pants again. Kat, I hope that helps you sleep.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:35 PM

Sandra, I've looked over the website and a few others which I found on google, about Buteyko. Very interesting and I will be passing them along to my dau. who has moderate asthma.

But, I am not sure how it would help with sleep apnea, as I would be unaware, i.e. asleep, (I Hope!) whilst breathing, so could not concentrate on how I am breathing. One thing I do know, when I was in full-blown CHF, I had way too much carbon dioxide and not enough O2, but that was all pre-surgery.

The way they've described apnea to me is I actually quit breathing. Otherwise, the rest of the night my O2 levels were fine, so maybe I am not a shallow breather anymore!:-)

Well, more to ponder.:-)

Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Question
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Jan 07 - 11:41 PM

I've been told I'm a deep breather.......'Course that was by some cop who was tryin' to pin some phone sex thing on me and.....uh, well, forget about that part.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 03:48 AM

from the course notes -

Sleep apnea can be a dangerous condition. It is important to determine whether your sleep apnea condition persists, or has ceased, or to what extent it has reduced in number of incidents, duration of incidents & degree of severity, and to know whether treatment by CPAP or other medical intervention is necessary.

Self observation or observation by a bed partner can give anecdotal evidence of improvements such as elimination or reduction in frequency & duration of observed apneas, reduction in episodes of self-waking with snort, gasp, choking or startled sensation, reduction/elimination of observed snoring, feeling of more clarity on waking, reduced dryness or soreness in throat, increased energy during the day & reduction in day time drowsiness.

While these observations are important, they are not definite clinical evidence of elimination of the sleep apnea condition & syndrome. This can only be determined by an overnight sleep study in a sleep disorders clinic. It is the client's responsibility to determine the state of his/her sleep apnea condition & to follow medical advice regarding necessary treatment of the condition.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Helen
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 06:19 AM

kat & Sandra,

I did the Buteyko breathing course a year ago. My snoring has reduced considerably. I don't wake up with a dry throat any more, and I am not like a walking zombie during the day from lack of effective sleep. It's difficult to describe the Buteyko method and the way it works. In fact it helps to reduce overbreathing, i.e. breathing too deeply, but I wouldn't want to try to give you half the information. It's better to talk to the experts. The woman who ran my course is Debbie Meredith, a qualified pharmacist.

I have been a very heavy snorer since my late teens, and this is the first treatment which has made a significant difference to the condition. A few years ago I did buy a mouthguard type of device, but while I found it worked to a small extent, and it wasn't uncomfortable to use, I wasn't very comfortable sleeping with it and stopped using it.

Buteyko is the bees knees, in my opinion. It has changed my life. (I sound like a paid testimonial, don't I?)

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 08:38 AM

another satisfied customer here

My physio sent me to the course as I was a very shallow & irregular mouth breather. Newborns breath thru their noses, most of us forget that as we grow & breathe thru our mouths - dunno why as we have nothing in our mouths to filter pollens etc from air.

About 12 months ago my heart started racing on occasion & before the course I would usually make it worse by hyperventilating.

My physio learnt about Buteyko from a severely asthmetic patient who arrived full of breath & energy after doing the course. Since then most of her colleagues have done the course & a Butyeko-trained physio has joined the practice.

A hint from the course while learning to breath thru the nose - use a small piece of narrow Micropore tape along or across the mouth (fold a pleat in each edge for ease of removal) to keep it closed.

Some folks did not use the tape, or only did so for a few nights, but I seem to need it permanently. I find that if I forget it, I wake with a very dry mouth & throat, especially if I have moved onto my back which I don't like doing as it hurts my thyroid, as well as affecting my breathing.

Strangely enough I have no trouble with a small piece of tape across my mouth, whereas the thougth of a CPAP or dental appliance makes me choke.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Helen
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 08:53 AM

Hi again,

I use the tape too. The tape plus the breathing techniques have meant that I sleep through the whole night, instead of waking every couple of hours or so. Best thing I ever did was doing that course!

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM

Helen and Sandra, THANKS!! I shall try some tape tonight and see how things go. I have had a dry throat and mouth throughout the night, recently. All of this also came on about the time I had strep thoat and had to take antibiiotics. Don't know if it's all related, but it helps to be aware. I have been concentrating on breathing through my nose, when awake, and also not so deeply. I have a pulse oximeter, so can easily make sure my O2 sat levels are okay.

I couldn't find any practitioners in the US, according to one or two websites I glanced over last night. The DVD was rather expensive on one site, but will look for it elsewhere. Looks as though, once again, the UK and Australia are way ahead of the US in alternative medicine.

Thank you, both, very much.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Helen
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 04:31 PM

kat,

The tape is only a part of the story. It's the breathing techniques that make it possible to use the tape all night, I think. So the DVD might be your best option. Try the tape, but if you find you aren't breathing easily that may be the reason. If you have been practising breathing through your nose, though, you might be half way there anyway.

You could contact Debbie Meredith at BreatheEasy Health Solutions and discuss it with her. She may know of people in the US or whether the DVD is a good solution. (She's a very nice, helpful person, like Sandra's practitioner.)

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 05:04 PM

Thanks, Helen, I may do that.

I have been paying attention to my breathing since yesterday. I've done pretty well at breathing through my nose most of the day, until I went for a power walk with the Dog. My power walks aren't that fast, but they are steady and I am working my way up to them lasting longer and longer. While I was walking, about halfway to my turn-around point, I noticed I was mouth-breathing a lot. Closed it up as soon as I noticed, but I still needed air and the wind was very cold (wind chill of probably about zero) so I covered my mouth with my gloved hand to warm the air and walked on to the car.

I will look into a less expensive DVD, too.

Thanks, again.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 10:21 PM

Tess tells the story of walking up a steep hill while one of the athletes from the Oz Institute of Sport jogged up. Naturaly he beat her up the hill but was puffing badly & she was unaffected!

She also trained 2 footballers who had no stamina. One was just sent on the field for a short time as he puffed so badly. After the week-long course the coach thought they were on drugs as they could play the entire game! So he sent the whole team, but they did not do so well as they did not spend their own money on the course & were not so motivated as the original 2 players.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Helen
Date: 13 Jan 07 - 10:45 PM

Sandra,

There was a young man in our course who is a sports cyclist. He said that in training on the day after the first night of the course he and a team mate were riding up a steep hill and he was chatting while the team mate was puffing. His team mate asked him how he could possibly be talking and cycling hard at the same time. He was practising breathing through his nose.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 11:32 AM

Great stories! Really motivating. Spent my first night with tape on my mouth and I *think* it helped. I know I felt good and was surprised it didn't bother me at all. I still woke up a couple of times, but not because I'd quit breathing, that I or Rog could tell. The first time I think it was because I'd slept so well, in one position, my back got sore.:-)

Thanks, again.

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Question
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jan 07 - 01:44 PM

Good job!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Ques
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:08 AM

yah, kat!!

I also find that my back hurts if I sleep too long.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Question
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 07:48 AM

Sinsull, do you know how hard it is to make me laugh? especially the first thing in the morning?
He was lucky it wasn't Seamus...he wouldn't have woke up at all!

Subject: RE: BS: kat and the apnea...did ye sleep? New Question
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 09:50 PM

I am delighted to see that the Butekyo method is finally being recognised in the United States. Please see this article by Jane Brody in the New York Times: CLICK!

Subject: RE: kat and the apnea..did ye sleep? Buteyko in US!
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 03:54 PM

I've been meaning to say "Thanks, again" to all of you in Australia who told me about Buteyko and the tape across the mouth. When I was in hospital, recently, and agreed to try the cpap machine, again, I educated a few docs and nurses on the use of tape for mouth breathers. One doc in particular found it very interesting and I think the respiratory therapist was amazed. So, THANKS! I am using it every night now and love that I do not have to wear a chin strap!

kat

Subject: RE: kat and the apnea..did ye sleep? Buteyko in US!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 02:47 AM

I still sleep with tape across my mouth - I normally use 3 small vertical pieces & never feel choked. Naturally, I always remove the tapes when I'm heading for the loo at night at a festival!

Recently I had a small afternoon nap & woke with a very dry mouth so must have been mouth breathing. I've also had naps where I don't wake with a dry mouth.

I still have trouble breathing thru my nose all the time, but I'm much better than I was 4 years ago.

sandra

Subject: RE: kat and the apnea..did ye sleep? Buteyko in US!
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Feb 12 - 10:35 AM

Good for you, Sandra!

Well, because of the level of CO2, the docs told me I really needed to try tolerating a face mask which covers the mouth. I was resistant. The docs, here, don't like the idea of tape in case of aspiration and choking, in general (I don't think I've vomited in more than 30-40 years!). Plus, recently, the tape wasn't working as I had too much "drool.":-) Anyway, long story short, I have been using a full mask for the past three nights...a new "girlie" one, and I do believe, for the first time in ages, I have had some really decent sleep for several hours. We'll check the chip which records such things on the bipap machine and, later, have a blood gas drawn to see what the numbers say. I have a very good feeling about it. I wish the previous docs had been a bit more aggressive, but must look forward and give thanks for the good advice I get now.

Subject: RE: kat and the apnea..did ye sleep? Buteyko in US!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 05 Feb 12 - 05:23 PM

"The docs, here, don't like the idea of tape in case of aspiration and choking"

I occasionally (once every couple of years) get reflux & have never felt choked. I wake to bile taste, remove tape & go & get a glass of water