BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas

Subject: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 08:38 PM

So Scooter has at last fingered the Dickster as the guy who blew the CIA case open. Perhaps this is the start of a two-for-one impeachment: Dick Cheney for a misdemeanour, and George W. for a high crime.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 09:50 PM

It's a good start!!

Who will appoint the independent prosecutor, though?

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:02 PM

Ahhhhh, like tis is new news???

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:17 PM

Woah...

Anybody got a link to any kind of a source for this?

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Janie
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:23 PM

Might he be referring to this story?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:28 PM

One can hope, Peter, and write to our Congresspeople, sign petitions, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Janie
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:37 PM

Here is the "National Journal" article referenced in the CNN report. It is not documented, at this point, that Libby actually named Chaney.

Is the "National Journal" a rag or a reputable magazine?

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Janie
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:38 PM

Cheney. Sorry. Fingers nor mind work so well these days.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 11:12 PM

About page for the National Journal Group

http://nationaljournal.com/about/

It looks like this defense is being used more to help get Libby off the hook than to implicate Cheney in anything illegal.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:07 AM

The CNN article that Janie pointed to says this: In a letter to Libby's lawyers, obtained by CNN, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said it is his understanding that Libby testified he was "authorized to disclose information about the National Intelligence Estimate to the press by his superiors." and this: A legal source involved in the case tells CNN that Libby did not testify to and has never suggested that anyone in the administration -- including Cheney -- authorized disclosing the name of CIA agent Valerie Plame. So, we peons can still only speculate.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:21 AM

***His lawyer, William Jeffress, told The Associated Press, "There is no truth at all" to suggestions that Libby would try to shift blame to his superiors as a defense against the charges.***

Translation: Cheney's on borrowed time.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Amos
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:24 AM

An excerpt from the National Journal piece:

"Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, testified to a federal grand jury that he had been "authorized" by Cheney and other White House "superiors" in the summer of 2003 to disclose classified information to journalists to defend the Bush administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case to go to war with Iraq, according to attorneys familiar with the matter, and to court records.


According to sources with firsthand knowledge, Cheney authorized Libby to release additional classified information, including details of the NIE, to defend the administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case for war.

Libby specifically claimed that in one instance he had been authorized to divulge portions of a then-still highly classified National Intelligence Estimate regarding Saddam Hussein's purported efforts to develop nuclear weapons, according to correspondence recently filed in federal court by special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald.

Beyond what was stated in the court paper, say people with firsthand knowledge of the matter, Libby also indicated what he will offer as a broad defense during his upcoming criminal trial: that Vice President Cheney and other senior Bush administration officials had earlier encouraged and authorized him to share classified information with journalists to build public support for going to war. Later, after the war began in 2003, Cheney authorized Libby to release additional classified information, including details of the NIE, to defend the administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case for war.

Libby testified to the grand jury that he had been authorized to share parts of the NIE with journalists in the summer of 2003 as part of an effort to rebut charges then being made by former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson that the Bush administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make a public case for war.

Wilson had been sent on a CIA-sponsored mission to investigate allegations that the African nation of Niger had sold uranium to Iraq to develop a nuclear weapon. Despite the fact that Wilson reported back that the information was most likely baseless, it was still used in the President's 2003 State of the Union speech to make the case for war. ...

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: GUEST,AR282
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:41 AM

They make it sound so innocent and apple pie. The glaring question with believing that Libby was merely encouraged to share parts of the NIE with the public is how the heck then did Valerie Plame's name get brought up then??

And the defense that she was no one of consequence only hurts Libby because then there certainly was no reason or need for him to speak of her at all if he had not intended to get back at Joe Wilson.

That Cheney was neck-deep in this there can be little doubt. It would be shocking to think that he wouldn't be. All roads lead to Cheney--too many of them in fact--and it is just a matter of time.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Azizi
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 01:53 AM

More on Valerie Plame's covert status:

—Michael Isikoff, 2006 Newsweek, Inc

"Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion..."

-snip-


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:33 PM

Oh, say it isn't so, Joe!

You mean to tell me that Dick Cheney was behind this retribution job all along?

But he claimed he had nothing to do with it...

Charley Noble, disillusioned once again

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 06:14 PM

Libby's defense is to save Libby's butt....he will not accuse ANY of his 'superiors' of directly managing this Plame business......now if they (the investigators) want to infer anything and put 2+2 together, Libby can't be blamed, can he? Lordy, I'd love to be a fly-on-the-wall as the big boys juggle the various versions of "truth" they need to Gerrymander as this plays out!

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 05:17 PM

A former CIA officer whose identity was leaked to the media is suing US Vice-President Dick Cheney.

Valerie Plame is suing Mr Cheney, his ex-aide Lewis Libby and presidential adviser Karl Rove, saying they tried to destroy her career.

Ms Plame's name appeared in the media in 2003 after her husband criticised the Bush government over Iraq.

Her husband, ex-US ambassador Joseph Wilson, who is also suing, had said the US twisted intelligence to go to war.

Mr Libby has been charged with perjury and obstructing justice in connection with the leak. He has resigned pending trial but denies the charges.

It was revealed last month that Mr Rove would not be charged over the leak.

'Punishment'

Ms Plame's name appeared in an article written by columnist Robert Novak about a week after Mr Wilson made his criticisms of the government in the New York Times.

As their chief method of punishment, the White House officials destroyed [Ms Plame's] cover by revealing her classified employment with the CIA to reporters

(Lawsuit wording)


The CIA had sent Mr Wilson to Niger in 2002 to find out whether then Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was trying to buy uranium from the African country.

Mr Wilson reported that there was no truth in the claim but it still appeared in President George W Bush's 2003 State of the Union address.

In the lawsuit, Ms Plame and Mr Wilson accuse the three named officials and 10 others of putting their lives and the lives of their children at risk.

"This lawsuit concerns the intentional and malicious exposure by senior officials of the federal government of [Ms Plame], whose job it was to gather intelligence to make the nation safer and who risked her life for her country," it says.
(From the BBC)

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 05:26 PM

Good for Her!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 05:27 PM

Things could get interesting now. As I recall, it was the Paula Jones lawsuit that brought about the chain of events leading to Clinton's impeachement.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 06:13 PM

btw

I loved the comment by Putin regarding Dick Cheney's recent belicose statement to the Russian government.


Putin responded, "I think its as bad a shot as when he went quail hunting.!"

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 06:38 PM

When was the law suit filed, Amos??? Wasn't in today's Post...

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 07:37 PM

I hope, I hope, I hope!

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 07:45 PM

Of course Cheyney was involved. So was Bush. Why do you think they both have been singing the "it's my executive privilege to decide when things can be declassified" song?

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:10 PM

Plame sues Reuters, Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:05pm ET

For an extensive summary of the earlier history, an apparently credible(?) summation appeared at Vanity Fair. (A rather long article.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:19 PM

OOPS: A comma didn't copy. That should have been

"Plame Sues, Reuters, Thu Jul 13..."

I should also note that the Vanity Fair article was previously linked in another thread, so a few people may already have seen it. That article makes only brief mention of Valerie and her husband, although a couple of Italian participants named there have recently been indicted in Italy. FWIW.

John

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 08:40 PM

Thanks, JohninKS, I'd missed the earlier link to the article.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:03 PM

Yep, it was on NBC news tonight...

Great!!!

This is gonna really open up the can or worms...

Look out, Karl... You're still on the firin' range... Literally...

But, fir those of you who think this is going to get a trial date before the '06 elections... This is going to be years of "discovery" an' I wouldn't be a bit surprised to even see it settled in, ohhhh, '09 or so....

And will the judgement even get collected???

Think O.J. Simpson here... The super rich don't have to pay for their crimes... But they can go out and preach stuff like "personal responsibility" about some poor welfare mom who has been caught collecting an extra $57 bucks a month for a kid that doesn't live with her anymore...

Personal responsibility, my butt...

Robert Novak has now fingered Rove as one of the 3 sources of the Plame outing yet, if I have this right, since Rove told Fitzgerald that he indeed outted her, that now Rove is like some friggin' Eagle Scout for telling the truth...

Hey, folks, Rove outted Plame... He admits it... Bush said he would fire anyone who was found to be part of the outin'...

Where's Donald Trump when you need him???

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jul 06 - 09:16 PM

kat -

The same issue of Vanity Fair had a shorter article on Tony Blair that was "informative." I hadn't realized the extent to which Bush and Blair are "reading from the same book."

Blair's Big Brother Legacy, By HENRY PORTER

It's a bit "off-thread" here, but might be of interest.

Chances of any successful result of Valerie Plame's suit against Cheney et. al. are probably pretty slim. About like the GAO suit to obtain information on Cheney's "secret energy advisors" and/or the separate private suit over the same issue: The GAO was forced to drop their suit, allegedly after Repubs in Congress threatened their funding; and the private suit was dismissed (by a Bush appointed judge).

John

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:31 AM

Good article, and thanks, John.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Troll
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 05:00 PM

The real question is, was Plame engaged in any kind of covert operations at the time of the so-called "outing"? No one has yet been indicted for that. If she was, in fact engaged in some sort of covert work then the law has been broken and someone should be charged. To date, no one has been charged, nor do I expect them to be.

It is my understanding that she was outed in 1992 by Aldridge Ames (sp?) and at that time was brought back to Washington and given a desk job. I do not believe that it is CIA policy to use anyone in any sort of covert operation once their cover has been blown as it was in '92 in Plames case.

Since the CIA will not allow her exact job to be disclosed, and her case rests on the fact that she was exposed as a CIA employee, I don't see how she can prove injury to her career. She was never going to be used in covert ops again anyway - per CIA regs - so wheres the damage?

I see this as a purely political ploy, a red herring that's being used to draw attention away from something else.

Please understand that I like neither Bush nor Cheney, but it must be determined whether or not any law has been broken before anyone can be indicted.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 06:52 PM

The real question is, was Plame engaged in any kind of covert operations at the time of the so-called "outing"? No one has yet been indicted for that. If she was, in fact engaged in some sort of covert work then the law has been broken and someone should be charged.

Even if she wasn't, if she and her lawyers can make a reasonable case that Plame and her family were put in increased danger to their lives by her being outed, they will at least have a chance in their civil suit.

What will be interesting to see will be what sort of "unexpectd fallout" might occur of the sort that got Clinton into so much hot water ("lying under oath", etc.), and also what sort of information might surface that the Bush people might find uncomfortable or inconvenient.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Troll
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 08:50 PM

CarolC,

Your second point is well taken. It has already gotten Scooter Libby.

Your first point is a little more dificult. The CIA has thousands of employees and in many cases it is known where they work. From there it is easy to find out where they live. Unless it can be shown that she was involved in something in the past that might have upset someone enough to come after her, that her family might face increased danger now that her identity is known is going to be very hard to prove.

The only place that someone goes after a former covert operative is in the movies. The international intelligence community would not risk exposure to take out someone who last did covert work nearly 15 years ago. Revenge simply is not a motive to these people. It serves no useful purpose and, as I said, it has the added risk of discovery.

As far as some individual coming after her on his/her own, anyone who has his/her picture appear in the paper runs the risk of some nutcase deciding that all their problems would be solved it that person was dead.

I think that Plames lawyers will have a real uphill fight to make any kind of case based on increased danger.

As I said before, I think it's political.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:35 PM

We shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:37 PM

The question that always needs to be answered is this: Cui bono?

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 09:40 PM

In my opinion, the people of the United States benefit if the case helps to discredit the fascists who now hold the reins of power in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: The Smoking Gun: Dick Cheney 'Twas
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jul 06 - 10:07 PM

True, Carol. But I really meant to ask, cui bono-ed by 'outing' Plame?