 sj |
||
|
||
BS: The Serial Bully
|
|
|
Subject: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 13 Sep 06 - 08:03 PM The list of what makes a serial bully is a long one and the full list can be found on the following site. http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm Out of interset - here are just a few off of that list. The serial bully: has a Jekyll and Hyde nature - is vile, vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature - only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side is described as "charming" and convincing enough to deceive personnel, management and a tribunal, the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act uses excessive charm and is always plausible and convincing when peers, superiors or others are present (charm can be used to deceive as well as to cover for lack of empathy) relies on mimicry, repetition and regurgitation to convince others that he or she is both a "normal" human being and a tough dynamic manager, as in extolling the virtues of the latest management fads and pouring forth the accompanying jargon is emotionally retarded with an arrested level of emotional development; whilst language and intellect may appear to be that of an adult, the bully displays the emotional age of a five-year-old exhibits unusual and inappropriate attitudes to sexual matters, sexual behaviour and bodily functions; underneath the charming exterior there are often suspicions or hints of sex discrimination and sexual harassment, perhaps also sexual dysfunction, sexual inadequacy, sexual perversion, sexual violence or sexual abuse holds deep prejudices (eg against the opposite gender, people of a different sexual orientation, other cultures and religious beliefs, foreigners, etc - prejudiced people are unvaryingly unimaginative) but goes to great lengths to keep this prejudicial aspect of their personality secret has a deep-seated contempt of clients in contrast to his or her professed compassion is a control freak and has a compulsive need to control everyone and everything you say, do, think and believe; for example, will launch an immediate personal attack attempting to restrict what you are permitted to say if you start talking knowledgeably about psychopathic personality or antisocial personality disorder in their presence - but aggressively maintains the right to talk (usually unknowledgeably) about anything they choose; serial bullies despise anyone who enables others to see through their deception and their mask of sanity undermines and destroys anyone who the bully perceives to be an adversary, a potential threat, or who can see through the bully's mask may pursue a vindictive vendetta against anyone who dares to held them accountable, perhaps using others' resources and contemptuous of the damage caused to other people and organisations in pursuance of the vendetta gains gratification from denying people what they are entitled to is spiritually dead although may loudly profess some religious belief or affiliation is mean-spirited, officious, and often unbelievably petty is convinced of their superiority and has an overbearing belief in their qualities of leadership but cannot distinguish between leadership (maturity, decisiveness, assertiveness, co-operation, trust, integrity) and bullying (immaturity, impulsiveness, aggression, manipulation, distrust, deceitfulness) is constantly imposing on others a false reality made up of distortion and fabrication Responsibility The serial bully appears to lack insight into his or her behaviour and seems to be oblivious to the crassness and inappropriateness thereof; however, it is more likely that the bully knows what they are doing but elects to switch off the moral and ethical considerations by which normal people are bound. If the bully knows what they are doing, they are responsible for their behaviour and thus liable for its consequences to other people. If the bully doesn't know what they are doing, they should be suspended from duty on the grounds of diminished responsibility and the provisions of the Mental Health Act should apply. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: robomatic Date: 13 Sep 06 - 09:54 PM Sounds like a job requirement list for the civil service! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Scoville Date: 13 Sep 06 - 10:30 PM Sounds like my first two bosses. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Old Guy Date: 14 Sep 06 - 12:08 AM A prison guard or maybe even Warden? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Sep 06 - 01:02 AM ... and the end result after 30+ years of working in such an environment - as well as having one's career evaporated - may involve symptoms of what appear to to be PTSD... of course the 'victim' may also become extremely good at detecting and 'reflecting' the behaviour back to others... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Barry Finn Date: 14 Sep 06 - 03:57 AM Something to sing about. I'm The Bully (words & music by Barry Finn) CHORUS: I'm the bully & you're my victim I need the practice, you need the pain I'm the bully & you're my victim I'll keep on you & drive you insane Oh how I love to stalk the weakling And the outcast or the lame Give me a nerd, a geek or a loner These unfit prey I'll treat the same chorus A shove on the stairs when none are watching A whisper of terror that none will hear At a hundred paces I still can strike you And keep it up year after year Chorus I'll chase you out of a crowed schoolyard I'll ban you from the public park You'll have no friends & no companions You'll only have a broken heart Chorus I'll get the neighbors to gang up on you If a fool feels friendly, he'll get dirty looks When you finally fight back I've turned the tables You're on my turf now & I wrote the book Chorus You can cry for help & beg for mercy And tell the world just what I've done You can pull a knife or pull a trigger You lose again, in the end I've won. Chorus Barry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 14 Sep 06 - 04:56 AM Nice one Barry. The thing about childhood bullying is that a victim will never be able to forget the bully but in later life, the bully hardly ever seems to give their victims a thought or even remember their names. Perhaps there are some excuses that can be made for the childhood bully? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Grab Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:44 AM You missed some important ones. Full list follows:-
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Grab Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:46 AM A question: what was the purpose of this thread again...? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 14 Sep 06 - 06:32 AM Why would you ask? The purpose of this thread was to start a discussion on the subject which is clearly indicated in its title. Thank you for copy an pasting the rest of the list - I feared that had I copy and pasted the entire list that it would have been deleted. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Helen Date: 14 Sep 06 - 06:46 AM I was the victim of a serial bully and lost my job because of him back in 2000. I was totally traumatised and it seriously affected my health and general well being. I can say now that I have fully recovered, after 6 years, and I am back in a different workplace, but a place where I also experienced serious bullying in 2004, but I am not prepared to tolerate that crap any more. Now that I know what to look for and I also know how to deal with it, and I owe 90% of my recovery to that website. Long live Tim Field, my emotional saviour! Without his website I would be in serious trouble, emotionally, psychologically and physically. Helen |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: jacqui.c Date: 14 Sep 06 - 07:52 AM Definitely sounds like my ex-boss! He behaved in that way for the whole of his working life. I took him through the complaints procedure - he was censured but was left in the job. When the union rep. asked around to get background on him she could not come up with anyone, even going back 20 years, who had a good word to say about him. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Sep 06 - 07:54 AM I was affected at work by a whole string of serial managerial bullies - what was my saving mental moment, was realising that a Footrot Flats (Aussie) comic I had just read had "The Answer". It involved The Dog realising that the reason Horse was not interested in Prince Charles but was very aggressive towards him was, as The Dog said "I'm a THREAT!". Some time after, I came across the movie The Wiz. The Scarecrow Song by Michael Jackson and the 4 Crows - "You Can't Win, You Can't Break Even, You Can't Even Get Out Of The Game" sample of Track 9. I realised the utter truth of this. Don't think you do, unless you too have been there. It's the one thing I try to get friends who are in similar situations to understand - without that understanding, you cannot get out! What it means is not what it seems on the surface - at first, you keep on THINKING YOU CAN PLAY THE GAME and WIN! This is wrong! "You Can't Win, You Can't Break Even, You Can't Even Get Out Of The Game" - you see, if you even think that you CAN WIN, then YOU ARE STILL IN THE GAME!!! Finally, I found a poster - a modified copy of which I put up near my desk - I made a slight modification. "Yea, though I walk thru The Valley of The Shadow of Death, I shall fear no mean mongrel bastard, for thanks to the training I received at the hands of you bastards, I am now the meanest son of a bitch on the Valley!" They started to leave me alone... :-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: kendall Date: 14 Sep 06 - 07:58 AM Barry, I gotta hear that sung! I was bullied as a boy from the wrong side of the tracks, but when I hit puberty and I put on a hundred pounds, it stopped. Well, that and a hard right to the bully's jaw. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 14 Sep 06 - 07:59 AM I was more or less passed from hand to hand from bully to bully - doubtless each successive one though that HE was tougher... and otherwise nice people believed the lies aboutme... :-) ... which means that I have no respect for these 'gutless wonders' - who were otherwise thought to be 'nice people' - as were these bullies... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST,Anon. Member Date: 14 Sep 06 - 09:11 AM My son was bullied in elementary school--to the point he ended up with a broken arm. The same boy who broke his arm was also bullying other children--and school personnel were completely unaware of it! It was a really tough issue to deal with. We knew this boy was giving my son trouble, and from what my son was telling us, was bullying other children also (he was the leader of a little pack of boys), but my son didn't want us to talk to the school about it. He had tried talking to his teacher early on, who at one point called both boys out of class to try to address what she saw as simply a personality conflict. The result was an increase in the frequency and intensity of the bullying. They did not take it seriously until the broken arm. Only then did they begin to listen to and believe what he and we had been trying to tell them. This was a kid who cruised along under the radar screen. The school was totally unaware of his 'leadership' abililites and behavior on the playground or in the halls. My husband is a bully. It is fear-based. I have worked very hard to do mitigation with my son and this helped him learn to stand up for himself without also becoming a bully in over-reaction. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Becca72 Date: 14 Sep 06 - 09:33 AM Sounds very much like my current boss, unfortunately... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Barry Finn Date: 14 Sep 06 - 11:50 AM Kendall, I gotta commit it to memory 1st but would be happy to sing it for you. I keep changing a little bit here & there over time & my memory can't keep up with the changes. When are you going to show up some where, I'll bring along my cheat sheet? I was never bullied as a kid, it was too tough of a neighborhood & you had to respond to a threat right away & usually if the other person was bigger it would require an equalizer, so most kids didn't bully because there was only one outcome. There were plenty of fights but once they were over that was the end of it. I told Big Mick the 1st time I met him & he said he was gonna "kick my ass" (in a loving sort of way), "let's do it, I've had my ass kick plenty of times but no one ever wanted to try it a second time". That was life in my little corner of the world, as a kid, tough but bully free. I wrote the song for my son, he was a target because of his disabilities. He's in his last year of high school now & is no longer little, he's also studied some of the Filipino Martial Arts & is now taking Gracie style Brazilian Jujitsu. He has & does walk away from the regluar confrontations but not from anyone whose privously bullied him in the past. All US schools are now required to have a bully policy, so if teachers or administrators don't listen remind them it's a law. At the work place it's intimadation, if it's continuious it's "work place harassment". GUEST,Anon. Member said "He had tried talking to his teacher early on, who at one point called both boys out of class to try to address what she saw as simply a personality conflict. The result was an increase in the frequency and intensity of the bullying. They did not take it seriously until the broken arm. Only then did they begin to listen to and believe what he and we had been trying to tell them. This was a kid who cruised along under the radar screen. The school was totally unaware of his 'leadership' abililites and behavior on the playground or in the halls." The bully has had their life time to perfect their talents & it's like watching a little evil master at their craft. They are seldom ever caught in the act always "flying below the radar screen" & they keep it up for years if they're still getting the desired reaction & they have a knack for getting away with it. When they grow, if they continue this behavior they need to be put in their proper place right away, socialy, with total non exceptence & avoidance from their peers. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 14 Sep 06 - 02:01 PM My brother was a cereal bully. He always kept the Cocoa Puffs and Lucky Charms for himself and made my sister and me eat corn flakes and raisin bran. If we tried to sneak the good stuff into our bowls he'd respond by administering noogies, Indian burns and the occasional wedgie. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST Date: 14 Sep 06 - 03:01 PM Even if it did not say serial bully on this thread - this is perfect decription of my boss. He even admits that he has a problem. It makes the working day interesting................. Pat x |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Helen Date: 14 Sep 06 - 04:42 PM My bullying bastard was what Tim Field describes as a sociopath. In the bully's case, he used his voice as a weapon. Everything he did to me was said so that only I could hear it except on one occasion when he actually bawled me out in front of the rest of the staff - who did nothing, they were too busy trying to stay out of target range themselves. (One of the biggest issues I had to deal with, within myself, was the fact of being thrown to the wolves by 40 or so other people who could see everything that he was doing to me. In Schindler's Ark/List there is a scene where the commandant of the concentration camp would finish his breakfast everyday, go out onto the verandah of his cottage with his gun, and randomly shoot anyone who took his attention. It was totally random and the inmates never knew who would die next or why, so it was every man/woman for him/herself. Only two people in that section showed their innate sense of humanity and helped me by not avoiding my eyes and turning away when I tried to talk to them. I bless them often with all my heart. Helen |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Grab Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:25 PM Just wondering, Shambles - threads mostly start with a question. :-/ FWIW, I suffered a shitload of it at school, pretty much for the full 13 years. Being what you'd call a "late developer" (I didn't bulk out until I'd left school, when I put on 20lbs, none of it fat, in the course of 6 weeks!) I was fairly easy pickings until I was about 13, when I started going to Tae Kwon Do classes. It wasn't so much knowing about martial arts as the sense of self-belief that it gave me. Physical bullying drops off around then anyway with children, but the verbal stuff kept going. Result was that it took me close to ten years after school to be able to interact with other people normally, and to be truly comfortable with who I am. Every parent needs to get their kid to martial arts classes at age 7, or earlier if you think they can take it. I've been lucky enough not to have a manager who tries that. There's one guy in particular who no-one liked bcos he was *very* abrasive, but if he told you you'd fucked up then chances are that you had. It didn't make him popular, but he got respect bcos everyone knew it wasn't personal - his only reason for doing it was to get the job done as quickly and as well as possible. And if he'd fucked up, he'd say so too. Probably lucky for bullying managers too. I got a bit of a reputation at my last place for not being entirely tactful in voicing my opinions... :-) Graham. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Liz the Squeak Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:39 PM Is called Keith and works in my office (strangely enough, in the Civil Service....) That character profile could have been written about him, even down to the false reality and gratification by denying others. He boasted once that he had 'just yesterday got back from 3 weeks in Singapore' and what a lovely time he'd had there. A colleague of mine looked him in the eye and said 'funny that, I saw you in Sainsburys, wearing a shell suit last weekend'.... he never said a word to her again, til she left the office. He's got at least one unconcluded bulling grievance on his record, and several incidents recorded that never went the distance.... Just last week I was in conference with my manager when he barged up and interrupted me, talked over both of us and demanded attention. If I had interrupted him, then my ears would still be ringing. Can't wait til the bastard retires. LTS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Jeri Date: 14 Sep 06 - 05:51 PM I was bullied as a kid, too. I had really terrible buck teeth. I remember wondering if my whole life were going to be that terrible, and thinking maybe the other kids would grow up, or that middle school would mean different, nicer kids. My self defense mechanism was learning how to laugh at myself. I don't really think this was healthy for me then, but it was possibly the healthiest way I COULD deal with it. Now, when I look at that whole time period, I realize that this DID work to some extent. I didn't cry and run away like they expected, and I think that me acting silly and laughing, often took the wind out of their sails without making them more viscious. I must have driven them nuts. As an adult, I (like quite a few others) had a bully for a boss. I was in a job situation that allowed me to just ride it out, to ignore threats and attempts to intimidate me, but it still (privately) bothered me. Funny, though - it wasn't even close to the sheer hell I went through as a kid. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Janie Date: 14 Sep 06 - 10:01 PM . I can not imagine what it must be like to have to get up every day and go into a work situation like many of you have described. I have been blessed to have always worked for truly wonderful, empowering bosses. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Liz the Squeak Date: 15 Sep 06 - 01:31 AM Janie - four years of anti-depressants, therapy and ostracism by supposed colleagues - that's what it's like! LTS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: M.Ted Date: 15 Sep 06 - 02:23 AM Serial Bullying is often difficult to differentiate from Borderline Personality Disorder, and, in fact, some of the characteristics above fit more with BPD than with your average bully. Bullies tend to "bully" for an audience--they rely on the passive approval of the "uninvolved" witnesses, as described above. They tend to do it to enhance their social position--the Borderline Personality Disorder individual reacts to perceived threats--often, the victims, are competent, socially adept, attractive, and relatively normal, rather than the sort of vulnerable outsider that the regular bully will target. As mentioned above, the BPD often torments secretly-- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Amergin Date: 15 Sep 06 - 02:30 AM Shit....I thought this described Shambles....he definitely is delusional....and he bullies the clones and Joe Offer with his incessant whinging....which I believe this thread is tied to his endless "crusade". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 15 Sep 06 - 09:06 AM Shit....I thought this described Shambles....he definitely is delusional....and he bullies the clones and Joe Offer with his incessant whinging....which I believe this thread is tied to his endless "crusade". I sure there will be things for some posters to accuse me of the same 'crimes' in the following thread - started at the same time as this one. Wearing knotted hankies Perhaps it would be better for posters not to be encouraged to post only to make personal comments about their named fellow posters - but be encouraged to address the issue and the thread's subject? I did have a fellow worker who eventually worked his way skillfully and quite ruthlessly to a situation where he became my boss. The methods he used to gain advancement were as described by others here and were largely unseen by those who could have acted to prevent them. The side he presented to them - of a totally good bloke - made it impossible for them to accept the word of those few victims brave enough to try and who were then labelled just as paranoid and delusional trouble-makers. This is probably the very worst and most frustrating aspect for any victim - as their increasingly desparate attempts at justice - then only tend to confirm this view to those who could help. Along with the fact that the worker having achieved their postion - was not content with this and just continued in the same fashion but then was allowed to go on and use the advantages and privileges of this position to make the lives of others unbearable. It has been my experience that such serial bullies are the real trouble-makers but do tend to be promoted - rather than being booted-out as they deserve. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: M.Ted Date: 15 Sep 06 - 03:09 PM I haven't ever felt like Shambles was a bully. He stays pretty close to topic, and I have never noticed him to be abusive--he is zealous about presenting his points, and generally makes a ful presentation, which, inexplicably, gives some folks profound offense. If he has repeated himself over the years, he is far from the only one. I've found that it is relatively easy to skim any sort of long post, if time or patience are short--and, of course, it isn't necessary to read any given post, or even to open any given discussion thread. Bullies are more difficult to avoid. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: foggers Date: 15 Sep 06 - 03:22 PM Hiya Shambles....just wanted to comment on that point about responsibility in you first post "If the bully doesn't know what they are doing, they should be suspended from duty on the grounds of diminished responsibility and the provisions of the Mental Health Act should apply. " I know a bit about UK mental health services and have a few points to make. a) mental health services are so over-stretched that they are unlikely to respond to requests to get involved unless there is a crisis big enough to raise a blip on their radar b) due to the abiliities of the serial bully in terms of deception and "impression management" it is difficult to get an accurate assessment if a mental health worker does get involved c) People with personality disorders are often regarded as "untreatable" (i.e. medication and / or the usual talking therapies generally on offer have little effect) and this means that some of the main provisions of Mental Health law in the UK cannot be used as there needs to be evidence that the legal intervention will produce an improvement in the patient's condition. So if personnel and employment law systems cannot deal with the serial bullies, I think it is unfortunately unlikely that the NHS can or will do so except in exceptional circumstances. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 15 Sep 06 - 08:55 PM So if personnel and employment law systems cannot deal with the serial bullies, I think it is unfortunately unlikely that the NHS can or will do so except in exceptional circumstances. I take your point and in these resource-led days I fear you are right. But because the serial bully may not be able to be helped (or sectioned) - perhaps you may agree that this should not mean they should all be promoted and elected into high office - as currently it looks to be the case? *Smiles* If we were honest - we should all perhaps be prepared to admit that some of the things on the list may apply to us at some time....... Hopefully not all of them all of the time. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Barry Finn Date: 16 Sep 06 - 03:45 AM shambles in your above post dated: 15 Sep 06 - 09:06 AM I'm sorry that you had to meet up with such an ass. I never had to deal with this, being in the construction trades & it does have a bit of the macho mentality inbetted in it & a bully being a coward, they'd usually end up with having their mouth gettin their jaw broken. I do believe that the situation you're describing is what causes kids in schools & adults in the work place (warning not PC) "to go postal". Werein the bully does get their due but the victim pays again for the crime of being victimized, twice. Surely the bully doesn't deserve death but tell that to the victim whose been trying to use the right channels to alleviate their condition, as you stated. Like you mentioned the victim has had it with the terror & then to be called paranoid & then to see the jerk get premoted & all the while seeing the justice that should be, never happening & the situation will be seen as ongoing & continuing. Well maybe they should be shot. It's pretty easy to see how this can come about so often. And you're right, there should be a law. In the US there are federal laws for the schools & every school is supposed to have a "bully policy" & they're supposed to inforce it but bullies perfect their abilities at a very early age & are basically like a child predator as a child & as an adult an adult predator. They're very hard to tract down & they're hunting techniques are like a phantom's, their pride in their ability is like a lion's & if they have controlled their surrounding enviorment to where they can feed in public without fear then they need to be brought down like the animal that they've turned into. To bring them down in the work place all that's needed to be done is (if there's enough) to agree with all victims, always include the bully's boss, is to ignor his evey wish, order & demand & just do your job. He/She then becomes useless as an effectual administrator, the wind has been taken out of their sails. Of course if their boss doesn't back your play & others won't join in the bully will come at you with everything they posses. Now you've become a threat & you'll have to go. So don't take any of my advice just wack the bastard with a pipe,,,, outside,,,,, in an alley,,,,,when it's very dark,,,,,when he/she is very drunk,,,,,,& when there's no one around. Remember "DON"T FOLLOW MY ADVICE",,,,,,good luck. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:32 AM Yes, I've met my share of bullies over the years, but I don't think my experiences are much different from those related above - so I won't bore you with them. What fascinates and apalls me, though, is the way that these bastards always seem to get to the top. Doesn't the description, supplied by 'The Shambles' and others, fit many politicians and world leaders? Why, when we have a pretty comprehensive description of such 'bullies',and know what they're capable of, do we continue to choose them to lead us - often going so far as to elect them? I have come to the conclusion that the human race is a species which is incapable of learning from its mistakes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: jacqui.c Date: 16 Sep 06 - 08:18 AM Might be a case of 'You can fool a lot of the people all of the time'..... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Jeri Date: 16 Sep 06 - 08:50 AM I think the bulllies' superiors are mostly oblivious to their abuse of employees, and the employees are just glad they bullies are going elsewhere, even if it IS to a better job. The whole Peter Principle works because eventually these guys will rise high enough so they can't hide anymore, and they can harm fewer people. At the very least, there is less interpersonal interaction between supervisor and supervised the higher one goes in an organization. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 16 Sep 06 - 09:01 AM I am not sure about the idea that the higher they rise the less harm they can do. Has anyone watched the various forms of the TV show The Apprentice and done so with the same sort of horror as I have - at the sort of attitudes that are being encourged by the likes of Donald Trump and Alan Sugar? To my mind these two embody the whole problem highlighted in this thread but are practically viewed as minor (or perhaps not so minor) divinities, whose every bullying word and gesture is to be savoured, treasured and most worryingly - imitated by the keen aspirants. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Big Al Whittle Date: 16 Sep 06 - 09:16 AM I totally agree about The Apprentice. Its a horrid programme that makes a virtue of unpleasant ehaviour. I was struck by the original list which came at the start of this thread... it should be on the wall of every staffroom in every school in England. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: foggers Date: 16 Sep 06 - 10:27 AM Yes these people rise up through organisations, and can end up in positions where they can do a great deal of harm due to the power they accrue ( introduce policies that lose people their jobs/health/lives? start wars? ) Sad but true - there is indeed a lot of evidence to suggest that a lot of our leaders in business and politics do have personality disorder tendencies, usually of the sociopathic kind. This is because they have a collection of abilities that make for success going up the slippery pole- - The ability to read other people very accurately and use that info to their advantage because the do not care about the consequences to others - well developed skills in deception and manipulation - a massively resilient ego and sense of self importance which is impervious to appeals to moral imperatives such as respect for others, shared responsibility for those unable to care for themselves, the greatest good for the greatest number etc O god I am really depressed now.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: dianavan Date: 16 Sep 06 - 01:15 PM I think that perceived competition plus a feeling of inadequacy breeds bullies. We have a couple of bullies in my workplace and they will stop at nothing to 'blow their own horn' whenever the 'boss' is around. As a result, they are rewarded by the boss while the unsung heroes remain unnoticed. Yet, it is the quiet, compassionate and supportive workers, who are usually the best at their jobs. Its the incompetent that need to continually 'promote' themselves and manipulate others to lessen their workload. I see it all the time. The bosses fawn over these assholes because they usually provide some kind of 'volunteer' time while others are doing the real work. They are masters of manipulation and control. Their fellow workers know it but cannot be 'unprofessional' by calling it to the attention of the boss. The boss interprets this silence as respect for the 'bully'. In fact, if you attempt to expose the asshole, you usually end up making yourself look like a whiner. Learning to 'stick up for yourself' is a life-long lesson but in the workplace, you have to be very careful that you come across as assertive rather than aggressive. Its a fine line. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: M.Ted Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:22 PM Barry Finn mentioned the federal requirement that schools have bullying policies-be aware that policies exist only on paper, and school practice is often unconnected to what may or may not appear on paper. I am part of an organization that provides violence(meaning bullying and sexual assault) prevention programs in our local schools. I am in fact the creator of the current program that we offer. In our state, unlike most other states, funding for the schools is appropriated by county government, and our county funded the program. In the this year's annual ritual of budget appropriation, as part of a political compromise, the money for our program was channeled into pet projects of one of the councilmen. Our Congressman demanded that the money be restored--parents and teachers wrote letters about it--the local newspaper advocated for us---pointing out that there had been a rash of sexual assaults on school busses, there were large scale problems with bullying violence in a number of schools, and even a school gang related murder(fear of being bullied in school is a primary motivation for gang affiliation, and it is the reason that kids bring weapons to school, too)-- None of this has any impact--the politicians don't see the issue as important, and the school administrators don't want to lobby for violence prevention money because they area afraid it will create the impression that their schools are not safe, and that their "policies" are not effective-- And so it goes..... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: dianavan Date: 16 Sep 06 - 04:54 PM M. Ted - Your example, while probably true, is not the norm. Most schools have been promoting social responsibility for a very long time. In our district, the kids are learning but the adults are not. While you see the fruits of our labour in the behaviour of our students, staff relations often deteriorate into a bullying hierarchy. I find it appalling and often have to remind fellow employees to apply the same principles to their own conduct. In other words, until we change our own behaviour, we cannot expect much more from the students. Unfortunately, bullying works. Its up to all of us to stand up to bullying behaviour and make sure that the scum does not have an opportunity to rise to the top. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 16 Sep 06 - 05:39 PM Learning to 'stick up for yourself' is a life-long lesson but in the workplace, you have to be very careful that you come across as assertive rather than aggressive. Its a fine line. Talking of lines reminds me of those old movies where the hero is about to make a stand (usually against some bully of a town boss) and he draws a line in the dirt with his boot, to see who is prepared to stand with him. In the movies first one and then another crosses the line until everyone follows suit and together they then set about getting rid of the town boss and his henchmen - the hero gets the girl and everyone live happily ever after. Sadly in real life I have found that it is not quite like that. So have others. Only two people in that section showed their innate sense of humanity and helped me by not avoiding my eyes and turning away when I tried to talk to them. I bless them often with all my heart. Helen In real life the cry most likely to be taken-up is he's Sparticus. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: M.Ted Date: 17 Sep 06 - 12:21 AM Dianavan--schools alway promote social responsibility, but the reality is that there are very few school that have effectively implemented violence prevention programs--there is a lot of "we don't have that problem here", and, when problems appear, and programs are initiated, they are often introduced with great fanfare, and quietly discontinued after a brief period of time. On top of that, a lot of what is done has never been independently assessed for appropriateness--and there are some very well known programs that have been evaluated and have been found wanting-- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Liz the Squeak Date: 17 Sep 06 - 04:07 AM In my experience the bully gets promoted because the people he is in charge of, will work harder (or differently) in order to prevent an outburst. People don't chat or discuss things at work because they're always afraid of the next round of victimisation. Individuals don't speak up about his/her mistakes or bad policies because that will get you his/her undivided attention. He/she will play one person off against another, spreading false rumours and generating mistrust, so people don't talk to each other. This "silence" gives the impression that a team is working well and is content. Thus the bully gets the reputation for being a good manager and is promoted accordingly. Sometimes - as was the case of *Keith Danvers-Colqhuoun, he's challenged and put into a job where he's not in charge of anyone. Sometimes there is no-one of a suitable grade willing to take on management of a particular department. Sometimes, there are section managers who will give people a second chance and a managerial position because they are the only ones with the right qualifications and experience.... At the time Keith was appointed, we had a department of 12. After 6 months, his divisive tactics had made 3 groups of uneven numbers who didn't speak to each other, 2 were on long term sick leave with stress related illnesses, 3 had left the company, and 1 was a basket case who decided there was nothing else to lose and fought back. He was about to be presented with an official bullying charge when he went on holiday for 4 weeks. Due to a death in his family, he didn't come back for a further 6 months - just long enough for the charge to expire. During this time a new manager was appointed and Keith was promoted sideways... a position of more techinical responsibility but no people to manage. He now makes peoples lives miserable further up the chain by complaining how things were better when he was in charge and what he'd do if he were reinstated. He cannot be dismissed because a bullying charge cannot be made to stick - he chooses his victims carefully, as he does his proteges. Keith is presently "grooming" a young man in my office - this man Joe Rodgers-England* already has a very high opinion of himself, does very little actual work but lots of training courses. He is a great fan of 'The Apprentice' and 'Dragon's Den' and sees nothing wrong in a manager reducing a worker to tears in order to get a job finished. He spent over 3 hours bitching about people interferring with his desk when in reality, the department head investigated his working practices after he made a mistake causing a £80,000 overpayment to a company. He is becoming Keith, but more so, because he has the ambition to rise rapidly through the ranks. So far, he has been passed over twice... LTS (*real names... is it only a coincidence that they both use a double-barrelled name when their relatives working in the same company but not department don't....?) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Sep 06 - 09:11 AM I had a boss once who hit me on the head (from the back) while the whole day shift watched. I immediately stood up to face him and said QUITE firmly, "Don't you EVER do that again." He made a joke and walked off. I excused myself and went to the coffee room to let the adrenaline wear off-- the shakes, in privacy. The boss came in and, blocking the door in this small room, hit me again with a hard shot to the upper arm, telling me to relax-- he was just "kidding around." So much for assertive speech. There was none of the lead-up, to this event, that one might have expected, and in the workplace he didn't display most of the other characteristics of bullies listed here, nor those of an abuser. He and his partner owned the business, and I soon discovered that cocaine was a regular "aid to recreation" in the executive offices. I think he actually was so high that he had no idea how hard he had hit, or that it was inappropriate in the first place. Sure, I could have filed suit-- instead I simply moved on to a better job. No one else there ever said a word to me about it, that day or later. ~Susan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST Date: 17 Sep 06 - 01:06 PM The description of bullying behavior sounds like someone I know who has been effectively cut out of my life and has been observed moving on to others. She maintains a lovely cycle of deception and wonders at why she has so few friends. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST Date: 17 Sep 06 - 02:23 PM My boss is exactly as described on the first posting. One employee lost her job when she told him that he was a bully. He then said that he realised that he had a problem, but nothing has changed. He is very scary to work with, but I think his problem is paranoia, and he should have professional help. I will not be the one to tell him unless i win the lottery. Its hard when you are in this trap. Pat x |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Sep 06 - 03:57 PM The real trouble is that the bully sees that it is a paying game. Look how many top government people screw up in big positions of power, and go on to another big job. There is too much incentive in our society for people who seek power without responsibility. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST Date: 17 Sep 06 - 04:33 PM Not only in government but also in institutions where people place their trust such as schools and churches. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST Date: 17 Sep 06 - 11:31 PM "...If the bully doesn't know what they are doing, they should be suspended from duty on the grounds ..." 'Bully' is singular and 'they' is plural. Written by a schizoid personality. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Barry Finn Date: 18 Sep 06 - 01:21 AM Being a bully is not a personality disorder, please! If it were they then could fight a firing as discrimation but they can, if it's not a medical condition, be fired for behavior problems. And they should be fired, they can pull a company or government's moral to it's lowest level. A happy workplace produces fantastic results. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Liz the Squeak Date: 18 Sep 06 - 05:16 AM Sorry.... giggling in inappropriate places.... and a serendipitous spelling error... 'they can pull a ... governments moral to its lowest level..' That's presuming that goverments have morals. (We know you meant morale, but it's funnier your way!) LTS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Barry Finn Date: 18 Sep 06 - 01:47 PM You could take it either way & ya you're right hard to find morals any lower than those in government. Sometimes I think that big business at least isn't as bad but then I think of where the orders are coming from & I just can't figure who's the worst. I love to be a fly on the wall, say like at the US's energy policy meeting & watch how backroom bullies actually work with each other. If it weren't so horrific it could be a comedy series. Maybe it should be. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Tannywheeler Date: 19 Sep 06 - 09:55 AM Helen, in an earlier posting (14 Sep?) you said you know how to deal with it. For those of us who may not, could you give lessons, or tell where you learned your lesson? I've got grandchildren I'd like to help get through school & life. Tw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST Date: 20 Sep 06 - 08:17 AM refretch ...'cos its too important to let slide off the bottom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Helen Date: 20 Sep 06 - 04:45 PM Tannywheeler, I'm just getting ready for work but I'll write some things about what I mean when I get the chance, but it may not be until the weekend. I don't mean that I've got all the answers, but I have figured out some of the puzzle. Helen |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 20 Sep 06 - 04:49 PM "I've got grandchildren I'd like to help get through school & life. " It's simple ... teach them to respect all people, be humane, understand all and to give them hope that humanity will prevail. sIx |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 21 Sep 06 - 05:25 AM It's simple ... teach them to respect all people, be humane, understand all and to give them hope that humanity will prevail. All good stuff, I agree but that alone will only serve to make yet more victims for the bully to make miserable. It is just as important for our children to be prepared for the fact that not everyone in this 'dog-eat-dog' world of ours will be taught this or would even be able to understand such concepts. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: The Shambles Date: 26 Sep 06 - 06:09 AM Responses to bullying |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: jacqui.c Date: 26 Sep 06 - 08:26 AM Helen - were you able to write out your ideas? I think that a lot of us would be interested in seeing them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: GUEST Date: 26 Sep 06 - 11:39 AM My daughter was being bullied in school. She took four years of martial arts. After six months she was no longer bullied. The study of MA allowed her to learn how to prevent others being bullied also. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: number 6 Date: 26 Sep 06 - 12:07 PM We live in a very unsecure, distrustful world .... I dunno, maybe this could be one factor in the increase in bullying. Yeah you are right Shambles ... we must also prepare our childeren to survive in this "dog-eat-dog" world ... let them know there are many people out there who disrepect others, who lack understanding. But letting them be aware is getting them to understand. I've taught my kids not to fight bullying by counter bullying ... but to try to reason and turn the other cheek ... I'm probably wrong in that ... but overall they turned out ok, good human beings at that in the long run. sIx |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Helen Date: 28 Sep 06 - 07:06 AM jacqui c, I haven't had a chance to write it down yet, but I've been thinking it out. I started a new job a couple of weeks ago so I am in that state of trying to learn everything at work and then just crashing when I get home. It's weird being back at that workplace, though, because I was treated badly there a couple of years ago by a group of women. There have been a lot of new people hired, and even though most of the same women are still there, they are in one section that I don't really have to deal with, and there is a strong culture among most other people in the building of staying away from the bullies who were so bad before. An "us and them" culture, I think. Part of the reason the bullies got away with it before was that the majority of the workforce were temps who could get fired at a moment's notice. Now nearly everyone has had to apply for permanent jobs so the situation is not as tenuous for most people as it was before. I was watching a situation in the lunch room a couple of days ago, and I have resolved to strike up a conversation with the woman who I think may be being targeted, so that she knows that she is not alone among a pack of wolves. The problem is I don't know which section she works in so I just have to keep looking for her. In the workplace where I was bullied by the manager there was a newly hired, brilliant and extremely highly qualified woman. I was going to find her and talk to her about the bully because I thought she would be a prime target because the boss would feel threatened by her. I was only working part time, so before I had a chance to talk to her she committed suicide. I suspect he put his hooks into her psychologically and it was too much for her. As you can see, I have a lot to say about bullying and part of my problem is knowing where to start. Here in Oz it will be a long weekend this weekend, so hopefully I'll start writing it down then. Helen |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: M.Ted Date: 28 Sep 06 - 01:09 PM Part of the problem with dealing with bullying is that people don't agree on what constitutes bullying--and some "bullying" stituations seem similar on the surface have very different underlying causes. As mentioned above, individuals with borderline personality disorder are often confused with bullies--a rule of thumb--your garden variety "street bully" uses physical/psychological violence and threat of violence for personal advantage--pure and simple--the borderline pesonality type is acting out irrational compulsions. Bullies don't act alone--they act with the tacet approval of authority figures, managers, teachers, etc, and with the complicity of the "uninvolved" onlooker, co-workers, students,etc. This is why it seldom helps to complain to higher-ups about bullies. If you are in a workplace that is dominated by a bully, whether the garden variety, or the psycho type, take a good, hard, look around--the bully may just be the tip of the iceberg- I |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Rowan Date: 28 Jul 08 - 09:51 PM I stumbled across this thread quite by accident but it has had relevance to my past activities and some of my current existence. A couple of books published in Oz might be of assistance but their details are elsewhere and it's quite possible that some details are not applicable elsewhere. BUt here's a start. For anyone who feels they're on the receiving end of bullying you must document everything; without documented evidence of incidents there will be no action. Depending on your situation (type of employment, context, confidence levels etc) the documentation may be a personal diary or journal or may take other forms. Because of the nature of my work I have found it useful to "mirror" requests so that potential confusions are nipped in the bud or avoided altogether; email works well in this regard and has lent itself to more serious documentation of phone and other conversations. A contentious exchange can be summarised in an email which you then send to the other party with comments such as "I understood you to have said ...." (avoiding direct accusations such as "You said ...", which a bully will use against you) and inviting the recipient of your email to "amend errors of fact" as otherwise your email will stand as a definitively correct record. There will be situations where you will send such an email only to the "miscreant" and there will be situations where it will be advisable that the "miscreant" knows that the email has also been sent to another recipient the "Cc:" option is very useful, as (sometimes) is the "Bcc:" option. There have been times when such documentation has been useful in changing the recipient's behaviour for the better and there have been times when the documentation had to go to the Ombudsman to achieve the desired change but, without documentation your argument is less supportable and thus less effective at producing change. Where I am employed there is a set of policies covering grievances, conflict resolution etc and all require such documentation. The evidence (outlined in one of the books whose title is something like "Bullying as an OH&S issue" and was written by two women) is that mediation between a bully and the bullied is rarely effective, as the institution regards the more senior person (most often the bully) as more valuable to the enterprise than the bullied (most often a subordinate). For this reason, OH&S legislation (in NSW, "psychological health" is specifically mentioned in the Act and the Regulation) may be more useful as statutory legislation overrides "institutional policy"; documentation is essential. The list of criteria in the initial post is very similar to those in another Oz book written by John Clark; this is not the John Clark who does the political satire with Brian Dawe (well known by Oz residents) but a forensic psychologist. Its title is "Working with Monsters: psychopaths in the Australian workplace". Clark goes to great lengths to warn against amateurs indulging in diagnosis of their fellows but makes it quite clear what sorts of behaviour are associated with those he classifies into four types of psychopath; the organisational psychopath is the consummate workplace bully. I hope this helps. Cheers, Rowan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Donuel Date: 29 Jul 08 - 09:59 AM An individual bully is one thing but think about institutional bullying for a moment. For every group that sponsors antibullying awarness there must be hundreds or thousands of groups that teach the tactics of bullying or demand bullying tactics. The religious group that teaches the concept of the "other" or "unbeliever". The corporation like Enron whose executives joke about ruining the little old lady with immpossibly high manipulated electricity costs. The evangelical appointee who graduated from Regents college who will hire only the inexperieinced and incompetant over the best qualified people based on religion litmus tests. The political attack machines. Think tanks who create grand social models and implement social control models of behavior based upon the concept of "people who believe in 'self interest and material selfishness' are more easily controled than groups who act as a community. Some institutions of bullying teach the tactics as if they are tenents of wisdom or the essence of religion... Moonies, EST, Scientology, (the big 3) etc. Most business models today hold these sick tenents dear. Most politics are the same. For a politician to rise without these tactics is both impossibly rare and wonderful. I believe: The bully has won once you keep a secret or perpetuate their lie. Whenever you keep their secret or perpetuate their lie, you become either their subordinate bully or their controlled victim. your humble servant Don H. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Donuel Date: 29 Jul 08 - 10:02 AM These are just some of the reasons I said NO to the CIA 30 years ago and paid dearly for my wish for liberty. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Donuel Date: 29 Jul 08 - 12:23 PM A serial bully might be attracked to police careers. It seems to me that bullies who don't qualify for police work for the TSA and insist that old people who can barely stand to take off their shoes without the aid of a chair. Now imagine a police force that is immune to civil law and hold themselves above the Constitution. The kind of person attracked to this kind of agency may be the ultimate bully. Not all talented people that such an agency will require may need to be trained and brain washed to lose thier soul. Its best to get them while they are young. Part of the exclusive leadership training at Yale is the Skull and Bones Fraternity. A credo of S&B is to accept extreme cruelty as a passage to leadership and that the fools are those who will not cross the line of extreme predjudice (murder) in the short timeline of our lives. The torture that the CIA does is of course OK. When the Nazis did it however it was not OK. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Jul 08 - 04:05 PM My biggest problem is figuring who is the worst! I used to think it was those three jadrools, Snap, Krackle, and Pop, but nowadays I lean more toward the fuckin' tiger. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: MMario Date: 29 Jul 08 - 04:10 PM 'Spaw - they've managed to pull the wool over your eyes! The true villians are the Serta counting sheep - and behind them, with her public "butter wouldn't melt in her mouth" goody goody super-sweet image is the mastermind; Mrs. Butterworth. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: katlaughing Date: 08 Nov 08 - 12:09 AM Some may have already figured this out, but now there are brain studies proving that bullies enjoy watching others being hurt: click here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: kendall Date: 08 Nov 08 - 01:33 AM They don't enjoy being put in their place. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:32 PM From Barry Finn: "I'm the bully & you're my victim I need the practice, you need the pain I'm the bully & you're my victim I'll keep on you & drive you insane..." Very meaningful words, Barry. From Kat: "Some may have already figured this out, but now there are brain studies proving that bullies enjoy watching others being hurt" I think many of us have figured it out, Kat, as you say. And yes, the findings of those studies are absolutely correct. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: peregrina Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:44 PM I am dealing with a serial bully at work and I am £&*^-ing FED UP. At least I have developed some immunity to it by now. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: kendall Date: 08 Nov 08 - 06:37 PM All bullies are cowards at heart. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: peregrina Date: 08 Nov 08 - 06:53 PM Very true, but when they conceal this with suits, pomposity, a refusal to keep their word and sucking up to superiors, they are hard to dislodge. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Bobert Date: 08 Nov 08 - 07:05 PM Well, when I was in junior high school we had one of these bullies... He was so friggin' stupid that he had failed so many grades that he was like, ahhhhhh, 17 years old an in the 8th grade and so one day in English class he just, out of the blue, punched me in the face... I don't know why he did it but he did.... Well, I went home and told my dad and my dad said that all ya' had to do was stand up to bullies... I tried to tell him that Clarkie Crumbar was like 17 years old and outweighed me by a hunmdred pounds but my dad would have nothin' of it so... ..."bout a week later in gym class I worked up my nerve figuring that the PE teachers would step in and save me from being killed so... ... right there during PE I slowly walked up to Clarkie and punched him as hard as I could in his face... This was the stupidist thing I did as a 13 year old boy!!! Okay, he didn't kill me but he hurt me very badly before the PE teachers could get him off me... When all the bllod was cleaned up I had a broken nose (with both eyes blackened) and welts alll over my poor head... To this very day I have problems with sinuses from that broken nose... Thanks, Dad... Any other good ideas??? B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: peregrina Date: 08 Nov 08 - 07:08 PM Yeah, it doesn't work to use their tactics back. Don't try calling the bully a bully or he can make a complaint against you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: kendall Date: 09 Nov 08 - 02:49 AM Bobert, you should have kicked him in the nuts, THEN, punched him in the jaw! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Barry Finn Date: 09 Nov 08 - 03:11 AM I'm laughting my ass off Bobert. You should've known better. I was always smaller, so when I got singled out I always found an equalizer, a chair, an antena, peice of wood. Like I told Big Mick when he said he was goon kick my ass. "I've been beaten a few times but no one ever tried to beat me twice. After you wacked the bully like that did he ever try you again. The same thing happened to my kid brother (he's still just 5') & I told him the same thing your dad told you. So just before the start of class my brother hauled off & punched the bully in the face & sent him flying on his ass. So the next time my bother ran into the bully, the bully said it was a lucky punch & he couldn't do it again, so my kid brother hauled off again & knocked him on his ass. He stayed clear of my brother after that. Bullies aren't usually very smart, a bit clever & very sneaky but not real smart. Hi Lizzie Cornish, thanks for the complement & the refresh Kendall, I have the words down now, only took a fews years. Next time we see each other remind me if you want to hear it, be happy to sing for you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if I can touch leather. And I agree with the kicking 'em in the nuts 1st. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 09 Nov 08 - 05:53 AM From M Ted: "Bullies don't act alone--they act with the tacet approval of authority figures, managers, teachers, etc, and with the complicity of the "uninvolved" onlooker, co-workers, students,etc. This is why it seldom helps to complain to higher-ups about bullies. If you are in a workplace that is dominated by a bully, whether the garden variety, or the psycho type, take a good, hard, look around--the bully may just be the tip of the iceberg-" Absolutely! School Bullying Policies are total CRAP. I know, both my children were bullied, my daughter almost to the point of wishing for death to swallow her up, and in both cases, the words on their charters were utterly hollow and meaningless. More than that though, as M Ted so wisely says, it is the apathy of all those around the situation which allows the bullies to exist, and thrive. Society these days now 'celebrates' the bullies, with the TV programmes and the culture that surround us all. It needs to be changed. It is being ingrained into our children that spitefulness unkindness and ritual humiliation, is quite normal and what life is about. Geez! WHERE are we going with that??????? If you see bullying going on and you keep quiet about it, then you are NO better than the bully themselves. It matters not if that bullying is taking place in the workplace, the school, the home...or..on messageboards. It is no good coming up to people in private, telling them that you're on their side, or how 'terrible' you think it is, how what is happening to them should NOT be happening, because your SILENCE is the very thing that is ALLOWING it to happen and to continue to happen. There is one person who has stood beside me, and I have the utmost respect for that person, because they have spoken out, both publicly and privately, regardless of how others may view them. It takes strength to do that, but it also proves that those speak out, have not only strength, but kindness, compassion, empathy, honour and integrity. We have come so far away from those values in modern life. We need to return to them. Lizzie |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: John MacKenzie Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:03 AM There are cyber bullies around too. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: peregrina Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:05 AM The cyber world mirrors all the good and bad of the 'real' world... Now... how about an 'off' button like the one on the computer for worlplace jerks? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Jeri Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:00 AM There ARE cyber bullies, but they're less effective because they can't do physical damage, and there's no way for them to back a victim into a corner. A person can delete PMs and e-mails without reading them. A person being bullied in real life may fear for their jobs, their well-being or even their lives, while the most cyber bullying can accomplish (at least at Mudcat) is to piss off the victim and some spectators. From what I've seen here, the victims frequently DO realize, and either ignore the bullies, try to reason with them or just bait them. The latter two just prolong the disruptive bullying for, say 1,380 posts (give or take). It makes me wish there were cyber duct tape. (That's gaffers' tape for all of you living in England... oops, my bad-- the U.K.) It helps if they choose a victim nobody much likes or agrees with, because the chances someone will defend that person are slim. It also helps them if one or more moderators joins them and becomes one of the bullies. Then, they appear to be bullet proof. Just want to say: I see you. I know what you are. I will remember what you do. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Megan L Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:10 AM "There ARE cyber bullies, but they're less effective because they can't do physical damage" Actually they can it is not that hard to find out personal details especially if the person doing the bullying was once thought of as a friend. Then things can become very personal and nasty to the point of dangerous It happened to me on another site and only stopped when my husband spoke to the person and told them a full record of events had been kept and would be handed to the police. Remember people on the internet are strangers however well you think you have got to know them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Jeri Date: 09 Nov 08 - 08:52 AM People on the internet are NOT always strangers. I know quite a few people who post here. I've seen people here develop a strong hatred for someone else, I've seen scorned cyber-sweeties turn into nutso cyber bunny-burners and I've seen (and continue to see because they aren't and CAN'T be stopped the way Mudcat works) outright cyber stalkers. I don't know if they're considered to be bullies in addition to being stalkers or just one or the other. I suspect bullies don't hide so much and the stalkers do, which means stalkers log out and post as a GUEST. Sometimes they justify it by saying they're getting even, but nothing justifies what they (or their allies) do. Then again, maybe bullies do hide. It doesn't much matter--they're all evil. The Wikipedia entry on 'Bullying' gives the following: "Norwegian researcher Dan Olweus defines bullying as when a person is 'exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons.' He defines negative action as 'when a person intentionally inflicts injury or discomfort upon another person, through physical contact, through words or in other ways.'" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Jeri Date: 09 Nov 08 - 11:49 AM Sorry, in my message above, I didn't mean bunny-BURNER, but bunny-BOILER. I don't think we've had any cases that severe though. Mainly I think we've just had cases of 'log-out and attack', or 'take-out-another-membership and attack', and maybe 'recruit some people to pile on', but no dead pets that I know of. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Dave Earl Date: 09 Nov 08 - 11:59 AM I know that it won't work for everybody, but I found a way round the bullies in my Youth. I was always the smaller "different" person which made me an obvious target. I tried to use whatever intellect I have/had and just ignored (as far as possible) what they said/did, on the basis that I could put up with it longer than they would get "fun" out of it. Telling myself that it was them with the problem not me was what I felt was the answer. Maybe I have enough inner strength that got me through the problem but it will be harder for people who are more sensitive I'm sure. Dave |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:00 PM Taken from the link above.. "Bunny Boiler is a pejorative term for an obsessive and dangerous individual, most commonly referring to a jilted lover who is stalking the person who has spurned her or him. The term is normally used for a woman. The phrase derives from the 1987 film Fatal Attraction, about a woman who begins stalking a man with whom she had a one-night stand." You mean, there are obsessive, stalking, jilted lovers in Mudcat??? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: John MacKenzie Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:40 PM That's 3 different categories Lizzie. Make your mind up, whether you want obsessive, stalking, or jilted lovers. ¦¬] |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 09 Nov 08 - 01:08 PM Ooh heck, I'd not want any of those, John. I can think of far more lovely adjectives to use. Bunny Burners took me back to Bunsen Burners in the school lab. Heck I could never fathom those things out. I was never the same after one Monday morning's lesson turned out to be Biology, and the little hamster I'd so lovingly cuddled on the Friday before, who I looked after at school, was 'the lesson', pinned to the board, after having 'allegedly' passed away during the weekend. I never trusted our Biology teacher after that, and hated Science from there on in. Sat at the back of the class that day and refused to watch, listen or take part in that horrible lesson. And don't even get me started about the time we had to cut worms up! Live ones..and nope, I didn't do that lesson either. See what happens when you mention Bunnie Burners, Jeri.. :0) Sorry, I've digressed..back to the subject in hand. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Ed T Date: 25 Jun 11 - 09:12 AM Put this under an older post: People can be bullied for just about any reason. Norma Stitz (102ZZZ) bullied since childhood |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The Serial Bully From: Ed T Date: 25 Jun 11 - 09:16 AM In case it did not link: 'Every day I am taunted by strangers': Woman with world's largest natural breasts on bullying she has suffered since childhood By Daily Mail Reporter 25th June 2011 The rising number of breast augmentations may indicate that many women want bigger chests. But for Annie Hawkins-Turner, having large breasts has caused untold suffering. The 52-year-old, from Atlanta, Georgia, who has the world's largest natural breasts according to the Guinness Book of World Records, has revealed in an interview today how she has been bullied since childhood. Speaking to UK breakfast show This Morning, she admitted that she is taunted daily by strangers. Bullied: Annie Hawkins-Turner, who has the world's largest natural breasts, told UK TV show This Morning of the cruel taunts she has suffered since childhood She told hosts Phillip Schofield and Jenni Falconer: 'When I go out of my house I have to think about what my day is going to be like and who is going to attack me today. 'Every day someone teases me that doesn't know me. They make fun of me and there's no reason. I'm human like everybody else. Uncomfortable: The mother-of-two would be a 102ZZZ in regular bra sizing 'I'm just blessed in different ways than other people. It affects my son very badly because people stare.' Ms Hawkins-Turner, who today makes a living as a glamour model under the pseudonym Norma Stitz, said that the bullying over her chest size began when she got her first bra at the age of ten. 'I don't know what size I was. I was just big,' she recalled. 'The only thing I remember about those bras is they were cotton and they stuck out just like footballs and that's when I knew I was different. 'Kids are some of the worst people in the world when it comes to picking on people. I was teased a lot.' The mother-of-two says the size of her chest means that she struggles to perform everyday tasks, such as driving a car. She admitted she was devastated to learn that she couldn't even breastfeed when her children were born, because the size of her chest meant there was no comfortable way to place the baby against her chest. Ms Hawkins-Turner also discussed her late husband of 13 years, Alan, who died six years ago. 'He turned my whole life around,' she said of the retired Air Force officer. 'He treated me like a queen. He loved me and he loved my kids. He was my angel, it wasn't just sexual.' Daily struggle: Ms Hawkins-Turner's breasts hinder her ability to complete everyday tasks, such as driving a car Confidence: She also told This Morning hosts Phillip Schofield and Jenni Falconer how her late husband, Alan, taught her to love her body Ms Hawkins-Turner's chest weighs eight stone, and in terms of conventional bras,would require a size 102ZZZ. But, she says, she will never get breast reduction surgery. She explained: 'Every time I get a new doctor they offer me surgery but I don't need surgery. 'I've got a strong back and have never had back ache. I've had therapy on how to hold myself so I won't hurt myself.' |
