BS: anger - addictive?

Subject: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Lox
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:28 PM

Whaddayathink?

I've lived most of my life free of it thankfully, but then I went through a terible time and discovered what it really is. I found through honest self observation that I was beginning to embrace it when it arose, and I could even find myself trying to remember, inmy day to day dealings, what it was that I was angry about so that I could have a bloody good stew and think of all the angry things I might say in some argument .

My situation has improved again, and my anger is subsiding and I don't rise to things anymore, seeing that all it does is make me tired in the long run and the juice it gives just isn't worth the very real headache and stress that it causes.

Sometimes it tempts me though, and I have to choose to abstain through force of will.

Perhaps there is a chemical produced in the brain that is addictive, endorphines for example (which make exercise addictive), or the natural pain killer we produce in our mouths when we eat chilli.

Any ideas?

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Nov 06 - 06:40 PM

Anger most certainly is addictive, and so is hate. That's why both are used so much (and so effectively) by politicians and preachers.

Because it works.

... ... Sometimes even on those of us who recognize and try to avoid it.

"Simple (-minded) lies" are another effective tool, but require (sometimes) a bit more subtlety.

John

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 02:43 AM

I really don't believe that anger and hate are addictive.....the strong feelings that we get toward other people...the gutteral feelings, seem to come to us all but we all handle those feelings in our own way. We do have a choice on how we handle ourselves and our feelings and we can all concsiously choose not to do things. It may be easier to 'let go' but self discipline or anger and hate management can work if we can't control the 'habit' ourselves. Yes I prefer to see it as habitual rather than addictive. Anger and hate are bad habits..get yourself over them.
There is nothing wrong with 'feeling' anger it's how you use it and that be the same for all the feelings we experience.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,redhorse at work
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:02 AM

does anger trigger endorphins? If it does, it's certainly addictive

nick

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 04:37 AM

Why would anger trigger any dolphins? They're peaceful, fish-loving creatures who want nothing better than to show us the error of our wasteful ways....












Seriously - I can see where you're coming from. I've sometimes had weeks where I've deliberately made myself angry just so I can explode and tell the person who has caused the angry feelings just what is wrong - because apparently, that's the only way to get through to them. Being calm and rational just gets you walked over. Trouble is, I like the feeling of power it gives me, particularly when I am right, and that's the thing that is the scariest. A good rant every now and then makes you feel better, but doesn't make the problem go away. The occasional scream and verbal outburst will often make others stop and think about what they are doing. It's when the occasional scream becomes weekly or daily that you need to stop and get control. Are you getting like this because there is a problem that isn't being addressed or are you doing it because you like the rush and power it gives you? If you are deliberately looking for that anger rush, then you are in trouble and need to take a step back. If it's because there's still a problem, then you need to take it to your manager, your Union or the source of the problem and talk it out with a view to resolution.

As a person who has bouts of depression, I can see a close link between the two - a bout of 'down' will often come close on the heels of a screaming match - it's the great swing in brain dolphins from full to empty. Add PMT and it can be one hell of a roller coaster ride. It's not the mad, hyperactive rush of the manic depressive, but a slow burn to the explosion which will then be followed by a couple of weeks where all of life is just shit.

Sometimes the slow burn can be more destructive than the quick blast. I'm a slow burner now, but I used to be the opposite. I would explode and then subside just as quickly. Now, I can take a few days to wind up to it, but the explosion can be just as dramatic. Then I'll sit and quiver for an hour or so... then I'll go hide somewhere and not want to talk to anyone for a week.

If you find your winding yourself up to be angry because you like the rush, the power surge and the "excuse" to lose control, perhaps you should try primal scream therapy - I use choral singing as my therapy - something about hitting those top notes with volume and venom... I would recommend Mozart's Requiem, particularly the 'Dies Irae', which is the closest anyone has ever come to orchestral stinging or aural slapping.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 08:29 AM

Nice one folks,

I was looking for honesty.

That's what I'm getting.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 08:41 AM

Well I never ...

Looks like there are chemical changes.

blicky

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 09:29 AM

Well I don't know about any research behind that article, and his conclusions may be true but these sentences....
"Those of us who rage a lot have more health problems than people who practice containing their anger. The popular psychological theories that suggested a need to express anger for mental and physical health reasons have been proven false when put under the microscope of scientific research. The more we scream and yell, the worse our health gets, the more prone we are to heart attacks and the worse our rage problem becomes.".....
look like the usual confusion between cause and effect. If it is true that angry people have more health problems is this because expressing anger damages health or because health problems affect mood?

The way the popular press reports science makes me...maybe not angry, but certainly amazed, irritated, exasperated.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 09:49 AM

A number of changes (chemical) have been documented by various researchers, and "emotional addiction" phenomena have been studied by quite a few.

The "fight or flight" reactions seem particularly strong. Most of these probably produce elevations in adrenaline, but there are a number of other hormones and vaguely known "juices" that can participate.

The well-known "brain barrier" generally prevents most of the strange chemicals that slosh around in our bodies from getting to the brain, so that it lives in a fairly "clean" world all its own. One function that has been postulated for adrenaline and associated hormones is that they act as a "transport" mechanism to pass "more" through the brain barrier, much like insulin is the transport link that lets sugars pass from the circulatory system into individual cells and controls how much gets through, but doesn't itself participate much in the metabolism of the cell.

Exactly what "more" gets transported is, so far as I've heard, not really too well known. Several decades ago it was suggested that adrenaline might act as a "super insulin" to raise sugar levels in the brain so that one might react more alertly. I don't know whether that function is supported as a principal function by later work, but even if so it apparently is only one part of what goes on.

One report I recall seeing, from the University of Israel shortly after one or the other of the larger conflicts in the region, claimed to have shown that high "adrenaline" levels (high stress levels) could lead to transport into the brain of chemicals that shouldn't be there and that ordinarily would be excluded by the barrier.

The obvious extrapolation from this is that one reason that US researchers had difficulty accepting the so-called "Gulf War Syndrome" is that when they tested "normal" people (laboratory volunteers) no chemicals got through, while the Israeli researchers suggested that under stress the same chemicals likely would get through to the brain.

Another researcher suggested that this might explain the occurence for a number of drugs of "side effects," largely psychotic, in older patients that don't often occur in younger ones - the old folks, often in care/hospice facilities or controlled by their offspring often are subject to quite a lot of tension, due to having little or no control over their own lives and often being given little information by those caring for them, and this tension may(?) elevate adrenaline or a like compound that promotes transport of some of these drugs into their brains, where the same drugs just don't get there in unstressed subjects. (There are a number of commonly used drugs that dismiss adverse side effects as occuring "only in the aged/senile and feeble minded.")

A friend who has worked for many years with returned veterans has asserted that at least some of them "miss the high" of the fear they felt in the combat zone.

Under threat, when you have a job to do, you have some control over the situation. You can make your preparations to react to the threat, which at least gives the appearance of having some control. Some vets referred to the inability to lose the fear, but now had no way of "facing it," so that they now had the fear but not the high from "doing something" about it via the "get-ready" (response) activities.

The "high" apparently depends quite strongly on being able to react to the situation, so in a more normal environment it's possible that it's the "lashing out response" - or the preparation to do so, or thinking about how you could do so - that is more addictive that just the fear alone.

Anyone who doesn't believe that hate is addictive need only visit one of the "fundy" churches in my area. The entire congregation becomes radiant with joy at the introduction of each new hate object. I've seen it, and it's frightening - even if it's not you they intend to hate next. (They are not the only place where it can be seen, just a very consistent place.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 10:02 AM

I've never been a screamer. I only get angry about big things, like child abuse, war and genocide, and I it motivates me to do something constructive. Other stuff, like people who are annoying or rude or mean, cause me to react by avoiding them and maintaining my own peace of mind.

Here's an example. I work in advertising sales, where I have to walk in to businesses every work day and meet people who are a complete unknown in how they will react. It takes courage to do this, and the ability to let other people's mood not affect me too much. Some people I meet have ads in our yellow pages and some people are new prospects for advertising. You never know if the person will be considerate and can say yes or no politely, or if they are mean, rude and irrational.

Last week I met one of the most angry, rude and down right mean customers I've had to deal with. She is a Realtor in Wyoming (I don't know why the most rude people I've had to work with are in Cody and Powell) and most of her customers are finding her number in her yellow pages ad. I had been given her account to take care of among hundreds of others in Wyoming, so I had not met her before. As a professional graphic artist, I often re-design ads so they will be more effective and find ways people can save on the rate and increase their Return On Investment. I made a more attractive ad for less money than she would have to pay to renew the previous ad, and made an appointment to meet with her. When I arrived at her office, she began screaming at me from the first moment. She threw phone books at me across her desk, threw paperwork at me, yelled at her secretary, screamed at me, then finally renewed the ad, gave me a check and said, "that looks a lot better than what I had before".   I remained calm and reasonable throughout the whole meeting and wished her good luck in her sales when I left. I hope I never see that woman again. I plan to give all the Wyoming accounts back to the manager next year for someone else to call on. People who take their anger out on others are on my 'avoid' list.   

I had a couple of near death experiences when I was younger, and that may be why I "don't sweat the small stuff".   I've had several people ask me why they never see me get angry. I think they mean they've never seen me yell or throw things or something like that. That behavior is counterproductive, so I don't do it.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 10:13 AM

Sense of humor seems to be a way some people defuse anger. My co-workers and I tell each other about our experiences with angry customers, like the one I described in Wyoming, and then we laugh about their 2 year old tantrums or nutty behavior. Being able to laugh with someone else who is walking in your shoes is a great release. Changing the point of view to something humorous, looking at the irony in the situation, etc., is the way we keep on going in a positive way. A person who reacts with anger would not last in this kind of job very long. You have to have a sense of humor about the difficulties and the difficult people to stay positive and keep going.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 10:21 AM

Yes.

Fortunately, as others have pointed out, so is music.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Slag
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 10:26 AM

I hate anger and hatred makes me angry. Seriously though there is anger and then a feeling you might call "righteous indignation". In my youth I'd get angry in a heartbeat but it was never really productive and always lead to bad feelings all around. I learned anger so I deterimined myself to learn better ways of dealing with anger. With God's help I learned tolerance and patience, empathy, understanding, the numbers 1 to 10 and beyond. The Bible teaches to avoid the angry man and that's good advice. Also "...a soft answer turneth away wrath." I don't know what kind of preachers JohnInKansas has been listening to but please don't be prejuidiced against all preachers for the short-comings of a few. The Apostle Paul said, "Be angry and sin not." Jesus said "The wrath of Man worketh NOT the righteousness of God" . Again Paul said to "...live peacably with all men, as much as lieth within you." Martin Luther King tried to embrace these Biblical priciples and look what he achieved.

The writer of Ecclesiastes says that there is a time and a season to every purpose and anger against injustice and evil is understandable and even to be commended but what we do with that anger should be done in the light of reason and tempered by love and forgiveness and mercy.

Is anger addictive? To some, yes. You could say that they have an addictive personality. The habitually angry have no real control over their own lives. They are manipulated by others and sometimes wind up being controlled be society to protect society. Control from within is a good thing (self-discipline). Control from without is for children, those with arrested development and ultimately criminals.

The next time you feel a rage coming on, stop and think. Think of a better way of dealing with the situation. Walk away, ask yourself if it is so important that you want to lose your composure. Do you want others to think of you as a hothead? Try seeing it from their point of view. What example are you setting for your children? Be angry and sin not.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 01:31 PM

I think a tendancy to allow oneself to become angry at the drop of a hat is a sign of laziness too.

I don't have the time or the inclination to solve this problem properly, so I'm going to rant and rave about it instead till I beat it.

I know people like that.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,Partridge
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 03:25 PM

I work with someone who gets angry at the drop of a hat.I am not able to say whether he is addicted to anger, but it does happen with frightening regularity. Needless to say I am looking for another job.

As to my own anger, I used to get road rage - never got out of the car and did violence, just swore alot. I didn't enjoy it - infact it made me feel very bad.(never swore until I learned to drive!)
I was then diagnosed with high blood pressure and the road rage disappeared when I was put on medication for it(high blood pressure not the road rage).

I have to deal with the odd angry customer in my work. Its always the same ones - its seems they only have one mode of dealing with their problems - its someone elses fault and shouting and rudeness will get it sorted.

Just before I post this I've just noticed two adverts at the bottom of this page, ones for hypertension medicine and the other is for difficult people at work! spooky.......

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Nov 06 - 04:25 PM

I always feel uncomfortable with the term "addictive personality". I have a feeling that all of us are quite capable of becoming addicted to something. Some of us have been lucky never to come up against that something in circumstances where it takes over.

Obviously anger can be pleasurable, or at least analogous-to-pleasurable. (It can be painful too, but that's just the other side to it, like drink giving you a hangover.)

But I'd distinguish between being cross and being angry. I'm not at all sure that being cross is ever pleasurable, unless it's allowed to boil over into anger.
.........................
There was an old belief once that lions had a claw at the end of their tail. When faced with a difficult situation they were thought to start off mild enough, and then lash themselves into a fury by waving their tale and scourging themselves with the claw until they were enraged. That's not actually true of lions - but a lot of people are like that.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Nov 06 - 09:08 AM

I would second Liz' suggestion of the Mozart Requiem to defuse anger. In fact any singing seems to do it--especially aggressive singing---as in virtually all Sacred Harp. The words in Sacred Harp also sometimes help--"On slippery rocks I see them stand while fiery billows roll below". Then there are also lots of "it's your fault (not mine)" songs to sing--lots of blues and country and some rock--as in "You're No Good" or "Won't Get Fooled Again".

And lots of instrumental classical music which is incredibly therapeutic. I was just writing a posting to try (again) to straighten out Teribus-- and the Bruch Scottish Fantasy came on the internet radio station I was listening to. No way you can not be uplifted by that one. Teribus fades into insignificance.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: autolycus
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 09:10 AM

A function of any addiction is to enable the person not to have to experience something they regard as difficult.

   A way forward can be to go to a therapist. In my branch of psychotherapy, Gestalt, a point is to develop awareness - most people function without.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 11:10 AM

"not to experience something they regard as difficult". I would disagree. If there is such a thing as addiction to music, it eases difficult situations, but you still realize you have to have the difficult experience. Of course you may say addiction would be the wrong term with reference to music.

But I would say a lot of the symptoms of addiction are there. Can you imagine a day without it? Do you seek out others who do it? Do you put off other things in order to do it? Etc.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 02:00 PM

Some people seem to get addicted to therapy.

The term addiction implies that what you are addicted to is not good for you. I couldn't go more than a minute or so without breathing, or a few hours without water, but I wouldn't call that an addiction. Same kind of thing goes for music.

Of course you can have too much of a good thing. Hyperventilation, even water intoxication. But that's a different thing from addiction.

"A little of what you fancy does you good". Even anger.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 02:32 PM

Ah, but there are--many--people who have no problem going hours, days even, without music. Of course anybody who sings never has to do that. But there may be such a thing as addiction to music--and I may well be such an addict. I don't even like parties if there is no musical element--preferably music made by the participants. And music parties are the only ones I go to--except family gatherings--which thereby suffer by comparison--unless there's a lot of humor--and there is in fact often music at those too.

2 days ago I went to the retirement community where my mother has moved herself and her husband-- strongly against my advice and wishes---so much for all the heartrending stories of how older people are wrenched out of their homes, pulled out of their environment, against their will.   Anyway I wound up playing the piano there and singing with some of the residents. So that visit was far better than I had imagined.

Virtually anything goes better with music.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 06 - 02:37 PM

The same with print. Reading the labels on bottles of sauce or the instructions on the bottles and tubes in the loo, if there's nothing else to read.

But it doesn't count as addiction unless it does you harm, or someone has decided that it does you harm.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 12:01 AM

You want my opinion? I think anger is addictive. But that ain't necessarily bad.

Example: My neighbour, Al, is an amateur auto mechanic. He thinks he can fix cars. Ha! He "fixes" 'em, all right. They don't never run right again when he's been under the hood. So anyways, Al tends to lose his temper when he's workin' on a car and he starts swearin' and yellin' a lot and bangin' things around. This was goin' on the other day in the alley below my office.

"Goddammit!" "You stubborn son of a b---" "Where the f--- did I put that goddamn f---ing wrench!" Bang! Crash! Bang! And so on, and so on, for about 3 hours. Al don't give up easy.

Well, I got sick of it. I was tryin' to get some work done and I couldn't concentrate. Here I am fightin' crime, crackin' tough cases, makin' society safer for decent people and apes, and I can't concentrate cos I have an idiot for a neighbour.

So I start yellin' out the window back at him, "HEY!!! Why don't you shut up? Give the car and us quiet people some mercy for a change and go rob some parkin' meters, you jerk!"

He pops out from under the car, all covered in grease, and starts hurlin' racial slurs at me, callin' me a "goddamn monkey"...

Well, I'm not gonna stand for that. He's got me mad now. "You want me to come down there?" I yell at him. "If that's what you want, just tell me, cos I will come down there, but one thing...make sure your will is up to date, Al. I wouldn't want yer wife and kids to get left out in the cold when the judge divvies up yer valuable collection of old Penthouse mags and the little plastic trophy you won for bein' number one jerk in yer graduatin' class back in '83."

I thought maybe that would shut him up, but it didn't. Nope. He got madder than ever. We both got mad. We yelled at each other for the next five minutes or so, until I got bored with it and shut the window on him. He was down on the ground floor, I'm on the third.

Well, I could soon hear him bangin' and cursin' away at the car again. I tried to ignore it, but I was goin into a slow burn.

Then I discovered that I was outta cigars. That means a trip to the smoke shop on the corner.

I went to the smoke shop and got some cigars. On my way back I figgered I'd take a peep in the alleyway and see how Al was doin'. He was still there all right, underneath the car, swearin' and sweatin' and crankin' away on some stuck bolt. I could see his big fat feet stickin' out. That gave me an idea.

I walked over and took a look at his ugly old work boots. The laces were hangin' loose. I bent down quietly and tied 'em together. So far so good. He didn't notice a thing.

Then I got in the car. He didn't notice that either. The key was on the seat. I put in in the ignition and turned it. The car coughed and stumbled to life, spluttering and smoking and making some grinding sounds.

"HEY!!!" yells Al. I hop outta the car and go take a seat on a bench over to one side and watch as Al tries to get out from under and see what's goin' on. Well, he had a struggle, cos of his boots bein' tied together, but he finally got out from under that car, stood up, tried to take a step and fell flat on his face. Har! Har! I really started laughin' then.

Man, I laughed and laughed. The dumb jerk had figured out by now that his boots were tied together and he tried to untie them, but he made a mess of that, so he finally whipped out a knife and cut the laces. Then he looks at me. I can see his temperature goin' up like a thermometer in the Sahara. He's gonna explode any second now.

"You got that car fixed yet, Al?" I says, lightin' up a stogie real casual.

"You're the one that's gonna get fixed, you stinkin' ape!" he roars, and he charges me, swingin' the knife.

I'm off the bench in a flash, and I get him in a wristlock and make him drop the knife, and I pick it up and pitch it at a telephone pole, where it sticks in about 20 feet up, quivering.

"You gotta control your temper, Al," I say, as I pitch him gently headfirst into the brick wall of my building. "If you was to get mad, you might hurt somebody, and I wouldn't want you to feel guilty later and have bad dreams about it."

He bounces off that wall like a big sack of potatoes, and comes at me swingin' like a crazy man.

"See?" I say, as I wrap my big long chimp arms around him, and slap a headlock on the silly bastard. "You're losin' your temper right now. What will the neighbours think? What will yer priest think?"

We go rollin' all over the place in the alleyway, kickin', bitin', gougin', and I'm thinkin' "this is a man who definitely does not know how to control his temper...it's sad." I have to say this guy fights dirty. It's a damn good thing he ain't as strong as a gorilla, that's all.

"Have you ever thought of takin' an anger management course?" I ask him politely as I throttle him with one hand and bust him in the chops with the other.

About the time he gets hold of a monkey wrench and brains me with it I realize he probably has not.

Well neither have I. It's the sad truth. I took that monkey wrench and I readjusted his nose with it. Al's nose has always kinda had a leftward tilt, but now it tilts to the right instead, courtesy of yours truly. A free nose job. No one can say I ain't generous.

He somehow gets hold of a 2 x 4 and we proceed to beat hell out of each other for the next few minutes, him with the 2 x 4, and me with the monkey wrench. "If I didn't know better," I says, "I would think you don't like me." (WHACK!) "And I am even beginnin' to think you don't respect me..." (BLAP!) "...but that's just not possible..." (CRUNCH!) The stuff he said back ain't worth repeatin'. Trust me.

Well, the upshot of it all was, someone finally called the cops and they broke it up. A good thing, cos I might've eventually got really angry and hurt Al. We wouldn't want that, would we? No, we wouldn't want that.

I am tryin' to think of a nice gesture I could make now. Extend an olive branch. Neighbours should always try to get along, shouldn't they?

Should I pitch a hand grenade in his window or just do a quick pass with the tommy gun some time as I'm drivin' by? Decisions, decisions.

Do I think anger is addictive? Yeah, I think you can make a good argument that it is.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: autolycus
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 04:07 AM

Quite. Nor would I count breathing, drinking water or listening to music as addictions simply on the grounds that you couldn't imagine going without them. The reason? They are not harmful.

Addictions tend to have a harmful element, using the word harmful generously. And addictions have the function of enabling the addict to avoid; avoid facing something, experiencing something, knowing something. Quite often because what is being avoided is painful (or believed to be painful). Even avoiding living one's own life. (on the other hand, if I'm using music to avoid ..........)

Yes it is possible to be addicted to therapy/counselling insofar as, under the guise of doing one's therapeutic work, one is actually intent on doing no such thing.

There are many things one can be addicted to - money,sex, work,- and again, only if it is harming in some way. Of course, for the addict, there may well be no harm, hence the folk-memory line,"Can't you see this is ruining your .....?"."No."

Addiction to anger (as with other addictions), can be a tactic by which the person can be in the only situation they know where they are actually feeling something.

Chongo's story is telling when he asks THE OTHER about THE OTHER'S taking an anger management course,(while simultaneously knocking seven bells out of him!) Ah yes, it's always THE OTHER who has the problem,innit?






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 02:47 PM

refresh






       ivor

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 03:12 PM

I think Chongo just enjoys engaging in a little sarcasm, ivor. ;-) He has a rather dark sense of humour at times...it goes with being a gumshoe and living up to the classic image.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 06:01 PM

Little Hawk - no doubt you're right. It's just that what he said,from whatever point of view, is what most think, that the problem is THE OTHER.

Incidentally,how does one get to be a gumshoe? (Perhaps I should stick to therapist, but I did like Sherlock H. and some U.S. private eyes, so I wonder.






      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 06:53 PM

I think Chongo's story is about the funniest piece of prose I've read in a long time.

As Ronnie Drew said "you should never let the truth get in the way of a good story"

Come on - Even the Hunph was never quite that cool.

This is dick tracey, LA law and steven Segal all rolled into one.

Thank you for a true belly laugh monkey man ;'p

______________________________________________________


Seriously though, I understand addiction to be measured by what a person is prepared to sacrifice to satiate their desire.

Money?

Relationships?

Family?

Happiness?

The happiness of loved ones?

The lack of a bloody headache?   (!!!)

I suppose I should do the boring thing now and send you all here

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 09:14 PM

Anger is ice for the toothache of shame.

Whatever distracts can console; whatever consoles can addict.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Elmer Fudd
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 09:56 PM

I think Ivor has a point. Anger is a sort of easy, all-purpose emotion that can substitute for any number of more subtle or ambiguous feelings that are more difficult to cop to, or more painful to experience. It's a lot simpler and less heart-rending to get angry than to feel vulnerable, ashamed, defensive, isolated, dismissed, to grieve, or to try to sort out a confusing tangle of emotions that are gnawing at you.

Elmer

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 10:09 PM

I agree with Ivor - a good addiction is about a good distraction, and a temporary way of making a person feel better. Living in a fantasy world? more fun than the real one, sometimes.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 08 Dec 06 - 10:10 PM

Anger is a great way of blowin' off steam. That's why I like it. But ya gotta keep yer head at the same time. Fer instance, I was just jokin' about givin' Al a burst from the tommygun or a hand grenade through the window. I ain't that stupid.

He don't worry me enough to have to resort to those kind of stern measures. Naw, he is just idle irritation from time to time. He's got enough bad luck already, just bein' Al...why should I make it worse for the poor sap? I save the tommygun for when people shoot at me first. Then the gloves are off, baby.

So. Anybody seen some tree-ripened mangos? The stuff in the stores here is pretty third rate.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 08:56 AM

Anger is an emotion, just like all the others. To say that emotions are addictive is pretty stupid.

Anger is, in certain instances, the most appropriate emotion to experience. Just as sadness is, in certain instances, the most appropriate emotion to experience.

The fact that people have difficulty experiencing theirs and other people's emotions is what makes all of us human.

I find it odd that not one person has mentioned the most wonderful side effect of anger: catharsis.

But perhaps that's too complicated for people looking for dimestore pop psychology answers to justify their behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:22 AM

"To say that emotions are addictive is pretty stupid."

And to say that emotions are NOT addictive is equally stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:27 AM

That's not too complicated for someone who needs to spout dimestore Greek to justify his loutish behaviour, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:37 AM

memyself, I'm hardly the only person posting to this thread to note that the "anger is addictive" crap lacks any substantive scientific evidence to back it up.

Like I said, anger is an emotion just like all the other emotions.

Is happiness addictive? Is frustration addictive?

This claim is pure pop psychology. People fear anger, which is what makes it such a powerful emotion. They often fear experiencing their own anger more than experiencing anger expressed by others.

Hence, people project all sorts of negative stuff on the expression of anger. If you do a poll, the vast majority of people would agree with the statement "it is always bad to express anger".

I consider anger a normal emotion, not abnormal. Every human being experiences it on a regular basis.

I'm much more fearful of passive aggressive manipulators who demonize and attempt to suppress peoples' normal and healthy expression of anger--pop psychologists all--than I am of somebody getting pissed off at the grocery store because the clerk is being an ass that day to everyone who asks for assistance, thank you very much.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 09:55 AM

and memyself, you do know the Cathars weren't Greek, right?

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 10:12 AM

Just for the record,I,at least, merely said that anger is one thing among many that can become addictive.

   it is a far cry from that to saying that those things ARE addictions. I for one said no such thing.

   

   Any emotions can become addictions. None of them are addictions.


   Hope that's clearer.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 10:18 AM

Please explain how an emotion is addictive?

Something that is scientifically based, please and not that you read about in Psychology Today or saw on Oprah or Dr Phil?

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:06 AM

"you do know the Cathars weren't Greek, right?"

Sorry, did I say "dimestore Greek"? I meant "dollarstore erudition".

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:15 AM

Ah. Another Oprah fan, out of the closet.

There is nothing to fear but intellect, right?

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:26 AM

I'm curious as to how many observable manifestations of expression of anger people here can name?

And let's get the two most obvious, though least used manifestations of anger out of the way right off the bat: aggression and violence.

OK, other than using aggression and violence, how do human beings express and experience anger in observable ways?

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Slag
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 11:50 AM

I know MUDCAT is addictive!

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 12:04 PM

How many different nameless GUESTS on this thread?

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 12:07 PM

Doing your usual bang up job of ignoring us anons, eh McGrath?

Think tone of voice, folks.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 12:30 PM

OK, here's a few ways of expressing observable anger off the top of me head:

sarcasm

defensive whining

condescension

belligerence

indignation

hostility

stubbornness or intransigence

sneering

Any of the above observable behaviors can be explained as observable manifestations of an angry person.

The study of personality, behavior, and especially of addiction, is nearly all hypothetical--with virtually NO theoretical base right not. Brain research is very much in it's infancy--scientists are still mapping the brain!

Now, it is quite fascinating that MRI has been used to further identify where in the brain things happen under a wide variety of circumstances, it is all still quite baffling and unknowable.

For instance, one part of the brain often associated with emotional expression is the amygdala. However, studies into emotional behaviors of that particular part of the brain are also contradictory, because emotional responses routinely show up also in the hippocampus, pallidum, and caudate nucleus regions of the brain.

While it may be fascinating that some studies done on bipolar disorder in children shows up in the amygdula (just as one example), that doesn't "prove" anything in a scientific sense. At least not yet. Why? Because the difference seems to be the in the stimuli used in the study, not in the anatomy of the brain itself.

So to make these sweeping statements like "anger is addictive" or "love is addictive" is akin to saying "rice pudding is addictive".

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 01:37 PM

"There is nothing to fear but intellect, right?"

Are you trying to be funny or are you really so hilariously arrogant as to believe yourself in possession of an intellect markedly superior to that of any of the rest of us?

Well, come to think of it, perhaps you are - if so, please give us a demonstration; so far you've done a bang-up job of hiding it.

And please explain the references to Oprah, Psychology Today and Dr Phil - I'm afraid I'm lacking your familiarity with them. And while you're at it, perhaps you can give us the etymology of "catharsis".

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 02:09 PM

An intellect superior to the rest of you? All of you, no. Many of you, yes.

You seem all hot and bothered in a very angry sort of way, meself. Why not get back on topic to the thread?

An emotion like anger is very complex. And actually, meself's angry reaction to my posts should trigger another observable manifestation of the expression of anger for us all: derision.

Both mine and his. :)

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 02:34 PM

I've personally known a number of people who were addicted to anger. My father and my grandmother and my mother's friend Helen, for example. Some radio talk shows hosts, obviously. Some newspaper columnists. An addiction is simply an overuse of something which is normal if you don't overuse it. You know a person is addicted to anger when they get angry a lot more frequently than is normal or appropriate, and when that starts to make them ineffective at relating sensibly to other people.

Why do they do it? Because it makes them feel powerful, and it makes them feel righteous, and it makes them feel RIGHT. And that makes them feel "good" (although it makes everyone around them feel like shit...). They also do it because they are afraid that they might not be able to control the situation unless they use their anger to force the issue. They want control.

Addictions are an out-of-balance situation. People who get angry more often than they should and dump it on other people are out of control of themselves. Their efforts to secure control through anger are an instinctive response to their lack of it.

Yes, you can get addicted to many forms of emotional behaviour...and anger is just one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: anger - addictive?
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 09 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM

"You seem all hot and bothered in a very angry sort of way, meself."

Not angry, not hot, a little bothered, the way I would be by the braying of an ass at my window.