BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 02:12 AM

"The difference is that Russia and China trusted the rest of the UN to act decently over Libya. As they patently didn't, this time they have exercised their veto.
Quite right. The iniquity of the action against Libya will haunt those responsible."

In Libya Gadaffi was prevented from murdering tens of thousands of his own citizens. In that respect the UN Resolution geared to that end was not exceeded.

I can understand how nervous and uneasy such actions might affect the ruling regimes of the countries who are currently exercising their veto with regard to Syria, they after all head the list of perpetrating the greatest democides in the history of mankind (China over 71 million and Russia at just over 51 million). As you state they see nothing wrong at all in the "State" deliberately murdering it's own citizens, after all act to prevent it in Syria, and their own populations might get funny ideas, all comes down to self-preservation in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 01:54 AM

"In Libya the United Nations Security Council passed a Resolution that allowed the international Community to act. In the case of Syria two countries used their veto which has prevented anything from being done".

The difference is that Russia and China trusted the rest of the UN to act decently over Libya. As they patently didn't, this time they have exercised their veto.
Quite right. The iniquity of the action against Libya will haunt those responsible.

g

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 08:53 AM

Bill-

It's true that post-revolutionary Libya is still evolving, and some of the evolutions are disturbing. No one expected democracy to spring forth full grown after a full blown civil war. But I doubt if the vast majority of Libyans miss Gadhafi. To characterize the Gadhafi Regime as "mild" ignores the mass graves of thousands who were slaughtered under its auspices; new mass graves are still being discovered and examined.

Syria is another case with many different aspects apart from oil reserves, and no one I know is optimistic of a peaceful resolution soon, unless "peaceful" is equated with slaughter.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 01:39 AM

"1 year later .... interesting

Looking back Gaddafi seems rather mild compared to Assad.

But then ... there is the oil, and that is what it was really (sadly) about."

Ehmm No, not about oil at all.

Prime movers in both cases has been the Arab League

In Libya the United Nations Security Council passed a Resolution that allowed the international Community to act. In the case of Syria two countries used their veto which has prevented anything from being done.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: number 6
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 07:14 PM

1 year later .... interesting

Looking back Gaddafi seems rather mild compared to Assad.

But then ... there is the oil, and that is what it was really (sadly) about.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 11:00 AM

Negotiations are now taking place in Tripoli between a representative of the International Criminal Court and Libya's new rulers about how Saif al-Islam and Abdullah al-Senussi might be tried fairly in Libya. Here's the story, if there is anyone left following current events in Libya: Click here for report!

Evidently both captives are still alive at this point.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Nov 11 - 05:40 PM

Latest update from Al Jazeera is that the Libyan forces have captured two more important figures from the old regime:

"Libya's former intelligence chief Abdullah al-Senussi has been arrested, an official in the National Transitional Council (NTC) has said.

"Abdullah al-Senussi was arrested in Al-Guira region in the south of the country," the NTC official, who declined to be identified, told the AFP news agency on Sunday, without providing details on when he was captured.

News of Senussi's capture came a day after Libya's new rulers also announced the arrest of the late Muammar Gaddafi's son and one-time heir apparent Saif al-Islam, who had also been on the run for months.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants on June 27 for Saif al-Islam, Gaddafi and Senussi on charges of crimes against humanity committed while crushing anti-regime protests earlier this year."

That should tidy up some loose ends.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 09:41 AM

BTNG-

Your link doesn't work for me.

All those who invested in Libyan oil futures in March can now cash in.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 11:24 AM

I see the Daily Torygraphy are in their and now it can be revealed mode

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: BTNG
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 10:33 AM

It's that standard being so low that has me worried, still I am willing to wait and see.

I stand by this....though any country that is ruled by a council...wellllllll......

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Oct 11 - 08:09 AM

Tyrants in other countries such as in Syria, Yemen and even Karjackastan should be stressed by the capture and summary execution of Kadhafi.

This thread may be an interesting one to review. Has anyone changed their position from their first few posts?

And who was right?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:12 PM

Here's more detail, for those who like more detail, of the attempted escape by Gadhafi and his body guards in a convey from Serte and the final fire fight when they were cornered in a culvert (from Al Jazeera): click here for report!

It will take a few days for details to be confirmed or not but it's at least more of a story than a snapshot.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: BTNG
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:09 PM

It's that standard being so low that has me worried, still I am willing to wait and see.

BTNG

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 04:04 PM

BTNG-

Well, the plan in Libya as implemented shows more promise than the result in Iraq. However, I'll admit, that standard for success is set very low.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: BTNG
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 01:32 PM

We can but wait a see what wil happen in the short term and the long term. Is this truly a new era, or has one set of evils been replaced with another ? It's not like that hasn't happened before.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:59 AM

Here's the link to Al Jazeera's report: click here for report!

Looks as if Gadhafi's death is for real.

May the rest of Libya find peace.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: BTNG
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:29 AM

the New York Times has now jumped on the "Gaddafi is dead" bandwagon, reports are still unconfirmed at the BBC, CBC, The Independent, The Guardian, all saying that "details are still hazy"

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: BTNG
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 11:13 AM

His death has not been confirmed, in the words of the British newspaper, The Independent "details are hazy" except it seems in the Daily Torygraph and Reuters, who, of course got their information from the NTC, who being the "victors" would of course say things like this, they have this need to please the world, and, of course obtain funds.

It seems that other "reliable source" CNN (tongue planted firmly in cheek) has video footage of what is purportedly Gaddafi's body

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:17 AM

He was true to his word, he said "I would die before I will leave Libya".

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 08:15 AM

It is now being reported that Gaddafi is dead. Libyans are celebrating the news with joyous exuberance.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 20 Oct 11 - 07:45 AM

Libyan TV reports 'capture' of Gaddafi


Libyan TV is reporting that Muammar Gaddafi has been captured by NTC fighters in Sirte.

Jamal abu-Shaalah, a field commander of NTC, told Al Jazeera that the toppled leader had been seized, but it was not clear whether he was dead or alive.

Gaddafi is captured and is wounded in both legs, Abdel Majid, another NTC official, told the Reuters news agency.

"He's captured. He's wounded in both legs ... He's been taken away by ambulance," the senior NTC military official said.

An NTC official also said that Abu Bakr Younus Jabr, the head of Gaddafi's armed forces, was killed during the capture of Gaddafi.

The news came shortly after NTC claimed capturing Sirte, Gaddafi's hometown, after weeks of fighting.

NATO said it cannot confirm the reports..

Gaddafi had not been seen since NTC fighters seized Tripoli, the Libyan capital,

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 10:59 AM

Ha, ha, good one Charley.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 09:58 AM

Bobad-

Neat story. Of course if the musician had wielded a banjo or acordian the battle for Sirte would have been over weeks ago.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 16 Oct 11 - 08:31 AM

The story behind the fighter playing guitar in the midst of battle I posted about earlier: http://www.channel4.com/news/the-story-behind-the-libyan-guitar-hero-photo

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 10:25 PM

CNN also mentioned that but such "reports" have not been substantiated before. If they have captured Mutassim, it's a major catch.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 05:13 PM

NTC officials say they have captured Muammar Gaddafi's son Mutassim, Reuters reports.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 12:52 PM

The Rebels appear to be in the final phases of moping up the Gadhafi loyalists in Serte. It's been a tough three week campaign, and extremely hard on the civilians caught between crossfire.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 08:15 AM

"A rebel fighting in the last stronghold of Muammar Gaddafi's Libya has taken to playing the guitar as fellow soldiers fire their guns around him.

A photograph taken on Monday in the town of Sirte shows a soldier casually playing a classical acoustic guitar against a bullet-marked wall as comrades fire assault rifles just metres away.

Nothing is yet known about the musician who is seen finger-picking the instrument while he watches another infantryman fire a heavy machine gun, with the bullet casings littering the footpath beneath their feet."

Killing them softly with his song?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 09:44 PM

And we're supposed to "destory" something--sounds like it might be different from "telling de story".

Ain't it wonderful to have such articulate Mudcatters?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 09:13 PM

maybe the jelly ???

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Oct 11 - 06:32 PM

ky?

Kentucky?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 08:17 PM

maybe he/she meant 'bruin'

but

bruin means bear ... bear ?!?!

ok

now this is beyond thought provoking.

all in all

do we really give a rat's ass what he/she was trying to get across.

now

back to the subject of this thread ....


biLL ... :)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Oct 11 - 09:34 AM

mudcat7-

"its time to brun the american flag and destory ky ."

"brun"?

Well, that is thought-provoking.

Any other insights on "brunning" issues?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,mudcat7
Date: 07 Oct 11 - 01:29 PM

its time to brun the american flag and destory ky .

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Oct 11 - 08:15 AM

For those who haven't read "the writing on the wall" take a look at some of these photos: Click here for PIXS!

No, fear not, they're not documenting atrocities, and some are outright humorous.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 07:35 PM

Here's a little glimpse of what Nicolas Pelham found in Tripoli some 4 weeks ago:

"The sense of local ownership of the revolution is important: No one
has stripped the electricity cables from pylons for their copper, as
Iraqis did after the US invaded their country and toppled Saddam
Hussein. Libyans, who before the uprising depended on an army of foreign
labor, farm their own allotments, run their own shops, sweep the
streets and volunteer as hospital nurses. Homeowners with private wells
open their doors to those with none. On their own initiative, policemen
in Fashloum, a working-class district in the center of town, met in the
mosque on the first Friday after the colonel's flight and agreed to
reestablish a local force. By midday the following day, a score of its
hundred policemen had reported for duty.
Residents of housing estates who rarely spoke to each other under
Qaddafi have created neighborhood councils, merging elders from the
traditional conflict resolution mechanisms, the lijan al-sulh
(reconciliation committees), with the underground leadership that
planned the revolt, as well as respected men from the mosque. Within a
week, their subcommittees were supplying better services than the city's
five-star hotels. The mosque in Hadaba's Haddad quarter, a poor
district of rural migrants, offered air conditioning and so much water
it spilled into the streets. Ironically, in the colonel's absence,
Tripolitanians created the very social system he had taught but never
realized -- a jamahiriyya, a decentralized network of grassroots, non-partisan people's committees."

http://www.merip.org/mero/mero090711

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 05:08 PM

According to Al Jazeera there has been a 48-hour ceasefire announced by the Rebels to permit more civilians to flee from Serte:

Hundreds of residents of Sirte are fleeing the coastal town after the National Transitional Council (NTC) announced a 48-hour suspension in fighting to capture toppled leader Muammar Gaddafi's hometown.

A long queue of cars jammed the roads leading out of Sirte on Sunday as civilians sought to escape a worsening humanitarian crisis in the town.

Residents fleeing the town of around 100,000 say that those still trapped inside are running low on food and supplies, enduring NTC and NATO shelling as well as intimidation from forces loyal to Gaddafi who are trying to prevent some people from leaving.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 05:04 PM

Peter-

Only the video of the warehouse near Sabah is new, to me, and it reinforces the point of how much evil stuff Gadhafi was stockpiling. Gadhafi certainly had his yellow cake; but he should have a chance to eat it too. Party on!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 02:47 PM

That's nothing new is it Charley?

Even in the early days of the rising there were reports of convoys of lorries shifting stockpiled weapons out of Libya. Depending on sources at this moment there are between 5 and 10.000 SAM7 missiles unaccounted for, off to the black market arms traders it is believed.

(the 10K number appeared on Der Spiegel website today, from a NATO source, German defence sources spoke of 5000)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 11:05 AM

Teribus-

I believe it was the containment vessels that I considered so sinister.

What a temptation this stockpile must be for international arms smugglers. There were reports that the warehouses are being observed 24 hours by surveillance drones. But there really needs to be international observers there on the ground, in additional to Libyan guards.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 11 - 03:50 AM

"There are also sinister looking shells or warheads in the warehouses that may contain poisonous gas."

That is what you wrote Charley.

I looked at your linked video report and saw no sinister looking shells or warheads. In order of presentation I viewed:

- 45 gallon drums of Uranium yellow cake;
- Soviet/Russian Grad Rocket launcher tubes
- Soviet/Russian surface-to-air-missiles on their transporters
- Containment vessels (contents of inner compartment unknown)

Those containers are neither shells or warheads.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 07:45 PM

This thread ... like every well composed piece of music has a good middle eight.

biLL ... :~0

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 05:32 PM

Hope you read all the posts carefully. Some are unique. ;~)

Well, at least one is!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 02:03 PM

L.H. .... I agree .... in fact it's getting to have some really unique sound effects .... so much I think we should add some sort of melody from a Moog Synthesiser to the track .... the results might provide a good back drop music mood for a film noir flick.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 01:11 PM

This thread is akin to a self-perpetuating feedback loop.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 12:41 PM

Teribus-

Would you view the full video, linked above at 30 Sep 11 - 02:05 PM.

I haven't a clue what those rows of canisters are.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 11:38 AM

Mr Blair.....lying....I dont believe it!

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 05:55 AM

"There are also sinister looking shells or warheads in the warehouses that may contain poisonous gas."

Well they may but I would very much doubt it. For safety and degradation issues related to what those shells or warheads have to filled with, you do not "arm" such weapons until you are about to use them - that process from authorisation to actually arming the munitions (Bombs, rockets, artillery shells or mortars) distributing them so that they are ready to go takes 45 minutes. That is what we, in the armed forces, learned during the "Cold War", that is what was confirmed to us by the new NATO member States who were formerly part of the Warsaw Pact. Now who was it again that told the world and its dog about Chemical and Biological weapons and 45 minutes again and was accused of lying?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 09:39 PM

Akenaton-

My very thought! Wonder if Baby Bush had similar thoughts? No, that's all history and he's too busy writing his autobiography to second guess that.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 05:26 PM

Maybe he was just watching it for Saddam?