BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 08:29 PM

A first hand account of how the good Col. Gaddafi treats his fellow citizens: http://english.aljazeera.net/video/africa/2011/06/2011629231512936499.html

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 07:03 PM

Regarding the threatned retaliatory action against the NATO countries who are bombing Libya, Col Gadaffi is notable for screeds of overblown rhetoric, like the rhetoric about searching out the "criminal insurgents" which was so eagerly seized by the West as an excuse to start massacring Col Gadaffi's soldiers and his family from the safety of 20000 ft!

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 04:56 PM

"Any action would be in retaliation..."    So we should sit back and wait for such action. Anything you say.

Alea jacta est, as I said earlier.

And if NATO stops bombing, leaving him in power, what about the $60 billion?    What secret assurance do you have, Ake, that Gaddafi will not use that money--and more coming in every day--to get a nuclear bomb?    And to sponsor terrorism--again--all over the world.   As, you note, he has promised to do.

It's time--past time-- for opponents of the NATO actions against Gaddafi to start using their heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 04:17 PM

Interesting post ake. I must say I haven't read a lot of this thread but your last post may be of some merit.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 02:34 PM

I'll gladly buy you a round at the pub of your choice the next time I'm in your neighborhood. Or you could collect your bet by coming to Maine and I'd buy you a round at the Old Goat here in Richmond.
jayse, i hope the old goat hasnt been made into a bodhran.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:53 PM

CP

MALABO, Equatorial Guinea - The African Union has called on its member states disregard the arrest warrant issued by the International Criminal Court against Col. Moammar Gadhafi, a move that could weaken the ability of the world court to hold the Libyan leader accountable for crimes committed against his people.

The decision passed late Friday states that the warrant against Gadhafi "seriously complicates" efforts by the African Union to find a political solution to the crisis in Libya.

AU chairman Jean Ping told reporters that the ICC is "discriminatory" and only goes after crimes committed in Africa while ignoring those committed by Western powers including in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

"With this in mind, we recommend that the member states do not co-operate with the execution of this arrest warrant," said the motion which was shown to The Associated Press and whose passage was confirmed by Daniel Adugna, a spokesman in the AU commissioner's office.

If the AU's 53 member states abide by the decision, it opens the possibility that Gadhafi could avoid prosecution by seeking refuge on the soil of neighbouring nations. That has so far been the case for the former dictator of Chad, Hissene Habre, who was given asylum in Senegal over 20 years ago, and who is yet to face trial for the alleged torture of hundreds of his opponents even though Senegal agreed in 2006 to create an ad hoc court to try Habre.

Gadhafi's chief of staff who was present at this week's African Union summit applauded the AU's decision, holding a copy of it in his hand on Friday evening as the heads of state emerged for their declaration after a day of closed-door deliberations regarding Libya's future. Diplomats said that the African body is divided between those that believe Gadhafi needs to step down immediately and those that want to find a dignified exit for a longtime peer.

"This is a Libyan affair and it needs to stay a Libyan affair," said Gadhafi's chief of staff Bashir Saleh. "How can you ask someone to leave his own house?"

Also on Friday, the AU passed a decision saying Senegal must assume its responsibilities and try Habre — or else allow him to be extradited to Belgium, which has offered to try the Chadian leader.

"It is incumbent on Senegal in accordance with its international obligations to take steps to bring Hissene Habre to trial, or extradite him," the statement said.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jul 11 - 01:15 PM

Bobad, if you are going to post quotes, please post them complete, not with the parts which dont suit you removed.

Col Gadaffi made it clear that any action against the NATO countries would be in retaliation against their bombing of Libyan cities and the killing of Libyan citizens......like his son, and grandchildren.

No wonder the guy is angry, he has been set up and his family members murdered in the interests of the UK French and US economies.

Thousands demonstrated yesterday in Tripoli in support of Gadaffi, are they to be left to the "mercy" of the insurgents?
Many Gadaffi supporters in the Benghazi area have been butchered, most have wisely opted to keep quiet.


Nato in perpetrating terrorism by a bombing campaign designed to make Col Gadaffi's supporters desert him......

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 10:08 PM

Good Soldier Schweik-

Fortunately you were the only one I can find here who was willing to take me up on my bet that Gadhaffi would be out of power by the end of June.

I'll gladly buy you a round at the pub of your choice the next time I'm in your neighborhood. Or you could collect your bet by coming to Maine and I'd buy you a round at the Old Goat here in Richmond.

There does seem to be gradual and continual progress on the part of the Rebels, with the aid of the UN, in terms of gaining territory.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jul 11 - 05:51 PM

Gaddafi going daffy:

"These people [the Libyans] are able to one day take this battle [...] to Europe, to target your homes, offices, families, which would become legitimate military targets, like you have targeted our homes," he said.

"If we decide to, we are able to move to Europe like locusts, like bees. We advise you to retreat before you are dealt a disaster," he added."

Source BBC

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Jun 11 - 09:50 PM

Gaddafi "not as harsh" as Mubarak, etc.    Anything you say.    I wonder why so many Libyans seem to disagree--and want no more part of his regime. I'm sure you know better than they do--virtually everybody in Benghazi and most of the east of the country is well known to be deluded, thinking that kindly old Muammar means them any harm.

Look, whatever you're smoking, you'd best cut down.

And if it is "obvious" that Muammar plans desolation, terrorism, and destruction for the West, it's interesting that does not bother you.   Most rational people might well say we have enough to be concerned about in foreign policy without OK'ing another terrorist power--this one nuclear.

Just how guilty do you feel about the West's sins of colonialism?    You might want to doff your hairshirt at some point-- and start thinking.

It would seem to any rational being that if an angry megalomaniac promises you desolation and terrorism, you really should believe him. And it might not be a good idea to release $60 billion to him.    In fact we should make sure he never gets access to it.   And that means removing him from power permanently.

But how convenient it is that we now have a thread which fits perfectly those who oppose the campaign against Gaddafi and the West's participation in it:   

AWOL: Common Sense

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 10:29 PM

meanwhile, over in Syria

Assad's thugs continue

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 08:23 PM

I shouldn't think Gadaffi will be too distressed bobad. Libya recognises the ICC only for what it is: a tool with which the US and its hangers on persecute Africans they don't like. (Libya's in good company: the US also puts itself beyond ICC jurisdiction.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 06:03 PM

admirers?
no, I am questioning the RIGHT of the west to interfere in middle east affairs, to interfere in the overthrow of Allende, to interfere in Iraq,to interfere in Vietnam.
The imperialist ambitions of the west resulted in Africa being carved up regardless of tribal boundaries, and presenting us with the problems we have today, mainly through the wets pursuits of raw materials, its the same old song , but this time the raw material is oil, f####ing hypocritical phoneys

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jun 11 - 08:56 AM

I hope that those posters who are admirers of him are not too disappointed:

Gadhafi arrest warrant issued by war crimes court

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: pdq
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 08:39 PM

If you say that Tito and Mao helped Mugabe more the Russia, fine.

I could have continued the list by mentioning people like Pol Pot. A reay cutie there.

Lefties seem to disown their progeny but only long after the damage has been done.

Most people are not aware the "Pappa Doc" Duvalier, Anastasio Samosa and Cuba's Bautista all came to power with the support of Communism. FDR jumped at the chance to recognize them as legitimate leaders since he had a Soclialist streak too. He even gave recognizing that trio of thugs a special name: Good Neighbor Policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 08:25 PM

What communist publication, pdq? It's wishful thinking in any case. Mugabe's support (in his legitimate war against white-supremacy government) came from Tito and China rather than USSR - which doesn't alter the fact that he, like Allende, came into office through free and fair elections. Of course it's in the psyche of many Americans that they have to react hysterically to anything that looks like commie governance, however effective and democratic it might be.

It's part of communism's dilemma that its practitioners sometimes turn into monsters, a la Stalin, Mugabe etc. But that's a fault of the human condition, not of communism.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: pdq
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 04:57 PM

Moamar Khaddafi, Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe and Salvadore Allende all came to power with a copy of Karl Marx in one hand, Soviet arms in he other hand and their pockets full of Soviet money.

Quote from a Communist publication: "the Libyan revolution, through which the Libyan people took control over their country from UK and US imperialism in 1969."

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 04:15 PM

the october UK 1974 elected with a majority OF THE VOTE OF 39 PER CENT,ron davies, should they have been overthrown by a miltary junta?you are the biggest crap talker of the lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jun 11 - 04:09 PM

"Allende was installed by the parliement which he and Soviet money helped pack with supporters. He got only 36% of the vote in the election and only about 20% of the public supported him. He was a Soviet stooge."
   even if this was true this would not be reason for a military overthrow, IN 1974 The English government was elected with 37.2percent, would it have been justifiable for a military coup to overthrow this government,no of course it would not,it is not me that is talking crap.
gaddafi is still there, charley noble has lost his bet, and the west is embroiled in a war that will last some while yet

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 08:36 PM

Hmmmm... maybe Quakkers has the WMDs from Iraq and wanted a better deal from BP and when he couldn't get one by strong arm negotiating they decided to bomb his ass and call his bluff?

Sorry. Don't mean to bring the Brits into bad light here. But if the shoe shits... ya gotta wipe, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 07:59 PM


AP: 24 June 2011 Gaddafi speech of 23 June:   "What you (NATO) are doing will rebound against you and against the world with destruction, desolation, and terrorism."

That would be a thoughtful prophecy, Ron, except that it's stating the obvious. I don't know what your Arab connections are, but mine are fairly direct. What I hear constantly is that Gadaffi's regime has been nothing like as harsh as those of Mubarak and Assad (notwithstanding the hopes originally invested in Assad); neither has there been repression and inequality comparable with that in Saudi (whose Royals were so ready to carry out a violent crackdown for their pals in Bahrain).

The demonisation of Gadaffi is not without foundation, but is blatently disproportionate, probably driven by guilt that other regimes murder and torture with impunity, sometimes on our behalf. The Saddam scenario revisited.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 04:11 PM

Subtle????????? LOL! Oh, come now...subtlety is not your forte, Ron.

But I have a little ditty I've composed for the political threads. Not just this political thread, mind you. ALL of them. And it goes like this...

(strike up the vaudeville band, complete with kazoos and egg shakers)

"Sing a song of sixpence, a pocket full of shit,
Four and twenty Mudcat posters having such a fit!
When their fit is over, the world will still go on,
And the bitching on this thread have been forgot by everyone!"
(Cha! Cha! Cha!)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 09:49 PM

Perhaps the brilliant minds who praise Gaddafi would find time in their busy schedule of building castles in the air to actually read what their idol has recently said:

AP: 24 June 2011 Gaddafi speech of 23 June:   "What you (NATO) are doing will rebound against you and against the world with destruction, desolation, and terrorism."

Yup, sounds like a reasonable guy, all right.    Who could object to that?

And the clueless Western supporters of Gaddafi, once he is confirmed as legitimate ruler of Libya, will then be pushing to release the frozen funds (appr.$ 60 billion or so). After all, if he is legitimately the ruler there is no legal ground to keep the funds frozen.   So he can carry out the general idea pictured above.

It would be nice if the Western pro-Gaddafi folks would actually think before posting.

Hope I'm not too subtle.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 09:20 PM

Re: Benghazi government:    it's obvious you haven't even read this thread.    I pointed out earlier that one of the best aspects of the society they are now creating in east Libya is how regular people are pitching in;    Gaddafi's schools are closed;   there are now volunteer teachers.   Volunteer police.   Even voiunteer garbage collectors.

People in general are so happy to be out from under the heavy censorship of the regime of an unstable vicious tyrant--who feels threatened by the idea that any good can come from other people than him.

Too bad clueless Westerners--including armchair socialists who for some reason think they know better than the large percentage of Libyans who have deserted Gaddafi--- are still supporting that dictator.

And by doing so, said clueless Westerners are in large part responsible for the continuing bloodletting---he will never step down until he has no support from anyone--if then.

It's very likely that he will have to go the way of Hitler--whom he resembles in more than one way--which I have also detailed earlier if posters would lift a finger enough to actually read the thread.   But that appears to be beyond the abilities of some posters--mostly those left of center, for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: bobad
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 05:40 PM

"it's pretty obvious that Gadaffi has some faults......."

That's about the biggest understatement I've ever heard. If you have been following the events in Libya and hearing some of the eyewitness accounts about what he's been doing for the past 40 odd years I don't think you would hear too many describe it as "some faults". Here's an account from one victim of his "faults": http://rafaelmartel.com/2011/03/18/young-mans-account-of-gaddafis-cruelty/

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:25 PM

OK, fair enough Guest Observer. Apologies to Teribus: I inferred too much.

Ron, it's pretty obvious that Gadaffi has some faults, like most state leaders. I was hoping you were going to tell us what's so good about the "Benghazi government".

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: GUEST,Guest Observer
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 02:56 AM

""Good Soldier Schweik" aka Dick Miles" - Teribus

"I see Teribus is as snide as ever, unmasking a fellow poster from the safe haven of his own pseudonym." - Peter K Fionn

Observation:
Hardly unmasking, if you look at the Good Soldier's past posts, the fact that "Good Soldier Schweik" and "Dick Miles" are one and the same is a matter of record.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 10:07 PM

"Gaddafi's achievements".    Don't forget the long-running campaign to assassinate Libyan dissidents--all over the world. Check out what he--and his son--said when the son was arrested by Swiss police.    Etc, etc.--ad nauseam.

If you can bestir yourself to do an iota of research.

Just why do you have such fond feelings for a bloodthirsty tyrant?
Feel free to lie down on the couch and tell us all about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 12:36 PM

If you can't tell the difference between Gaddafi and the Benghazi government, then, for the n'th time, please take off your blinders.

For my benefit, if not Ake's, Ron, perhaps you could just spell out what you see as the main strengths of the "Benghazi government" and say how they stack up against Gadaffi's achievements, such as, say, the visionary GMR (man-made river), a legacy of which any regime would be proud.

(Charley Noble, you saw what I wrote. If you think it was snide, just say so. For my part I think it's reasonable that we leave it to forum members to decide for themselves when/whether they want to come out from behind their pseudonyms.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: goatfell
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 11:57 AM

good old America at it agin thank you

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 12:43 AM

There's no point in any of you talking to one another.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 09:10 PM

We are only talking about Libya.   If you can't tell the difference between Gaddafi and the Benghazi government, then, for the n'th time, please take off your blinders.

And if you really think NATO targets children on purpose, there's no point to talking to you---you are beyond reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 03:53 PM

Ron.....BBC today, Prime Minister Cameron......"we(the UK) are at war in Afghanistan and Libya"

Nato said yesterday that they targetted the house of one of Col Gadaffi's closest advisers killing the mans whole family....BBC reporters said that of the four children only one head was recognisible...one hardened reporter "threw up" on seeing the remains of the children.

This is the lowest form of terrorism, on a par with anything perpetrated by Al Qaeda, only there was no risk involved to our assasins. No loss of life involved, only mindless brutal slaughter.

In Iraq and Afghanistan we are starting to withdraw our troops, have we achieved anything? Does anyone believe that the Taliban will not come stealing back, or that Muslim fundamentalism will rule again?...only much stronger.

If you Ron, had a son sent home in a body bag, would you not consider that he died for nothing?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 10:33 PM

"NATO opening targeting...children'

Please let us know, Ake, when you wipe the foam from your mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: pdq
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 10:37 AM

pinochet seized power with american help, and overthrew a democraticaly elected person Allende. that is fact RON ~ dick miles

lighter, cods wallop. ~ dick miles

In addition to calling people names, Dick Miles is full of crap.

Allende was installed by the parliement which he and Soviet money helped pack with supporters. He got only 36% of the vote in the election and only about 20% of the public supported him. He was a Soviet stooge.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 10:19 AM

PeterK-

So, would you possibly be making a "snide" comment?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 09:46 AM

Ron asked which US president ru1ed for 40 years. I'd say J Edgar Hoover, except that he called the shots for 50 (yes, fifty) years - presiding over corruption on a scale that many a third-world country would envy.

I see Teribus is as snide as ever, unmasking a fellow poster from the safe haven of his own pseudonym. I wonder if Teribus and his ilk (Bobad etc) could say exactly what policy considerations lead them to favour the eastern factions over the western factions in Libya's civil war? (They don't need to explain why it is ok to attack Libya but not Syria, because it's obvious: Syria has an army.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 07:47 AM

Who will protect Col Gadaffi's civilians?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 07:24 AM

Now that the mask has dropped and NATO are openly targetting regime members and their children(15 killed today), it can be clearly seen that this is the dangerous game of regime change by force.....nothing to do with protecting civilians

This is a civil war, whereas in Syria over 2000 unarmed protesters have been killed and we do nothing.

What fools and hypocrites we are!....Why do we allow our leaders to shame us so?

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 09:09 AM

Ake--

There are no sure bets in diplomacy.   As you should know.

The only sure thing is that Gaddafi is a bloodthirsty tyrant who calls his opponents "traitors" and "rats", has sent assassination squads all over the world to kill dissidents--and has already slaughtered quite a few.    This is just what Hitler did--in fact he mainly restricted himself to the sphere he controlled.

The Benghazi government does not do it.   Quite a few Western diplomats have been impressed with the expressed attitudes of the Benghazi government--which as I have noted, has a lot of intellectuals who cannot stand the straitjacket of the Gaddafi regime.

It's time for all thinking beings to recognize these facts.

And stop making excuses for Gaddafi or implying that any other government would do the same as he does.    The facts in Libya are on the other side.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 07:01 AM

"but we are about to replace him by something so much better aren't we?"

WE?? "WE" are not going to replace him with anything, that will entirely up to the people of Libya to do, that is their affair and has nothing whatsoever to do with us.

IRAQ

"Which has a "parliament" divided on racial,tribal and religious lines, a non existant infrastructure and hudreded of thousands of dead Iraqis,(soon to be Libyans, when the civil war kicks in)."

So the Iraqi Parliament is divided on racial, tribal and religious lines - WOW what a surprise, how amazing, but now you come to mention it, I can think of loads of Parliaments in countries all over the world that are - GUESS WHAT - divided on racial, tribal and religious lines.

Non-existent infrastructure?? You mean fewer Presidential Palaces?
Income per capita before Saddam took over $12,000+ (1978)
Income per capita when Saddam fell $507 (2003)
Income per capita today $3,800

Electricity Generation?
2002 - 27.3 bnkWh
2004 - 32.6 bnkWh
2011 - 46.4 bnKwh

Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's? Somewhere between 110,000 to 150,000 - Most killed by Iraqi insurgents, sectarian militia's, foreign Jihadist, and criminal elements.

Iraq a Parliamentary Democracy - rather unique in that respect in the "Arab World".

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 02:54 AM

Yes T.....but we are about to replace him by something so much better aren't we?

Just like Iraq.

Which has a "parliament" divided on racial,tribal and religious lines, a non existant infrastructure and hudreded of thousands of dead Iraqis,(soon to be Libyans, when the civil war kicks in).

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Jun 11 - 02:31 AM

Hi there Akenaton, I've just remembered who that "psycopathic dangerous egomaniac." was. The self-styled King of Africa" Muammar Gaddafi.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 03:00 PM

Now let me see - "psycopathic dangerous egomaniac."

Who does that put in mind of, only he never stood for election and hung around for 40 odd years.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 08:19 AM

"creatures of the system",    "psychopathic"---sure is a good thing we are so careful to steer away from boilerplate purple prose.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jun 11 - 03:42 AM

Ron...you put too much faith in "electoral democracy".....Just take a look at the leaders it has given us in the last few decades.

Either creatures of the system, or psycopathic dangerous egomaniacs.
Usually both!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 10:28 PM

5 Oct 1988:   Referendum lost by Pinochet. (Wiki)

I will settle down to wait for answers to my questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 10:20 PM

I can't tell you how surprised I am that though I pointed out that Pinochet had voluntarily stepped down when he lost an election, none of our stalwart opponents of Western involvement in Libya has told us about Gaddafi's term of office, and when elections might be scheduled that would result in his leaving power.

Gee, I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that Gaddafi will never have to stand for election.   Since that's the way the regime is set up.

And there is a reason Pinochet was willing to step down:    he cared--a lot--what the West (and the Pope) thought.

Now please tell us whose opinion-- outside his own--the Brother Leader cares for.

Clue: it's not the West.   Nor the Pope.



And I'm still waiting for the giant intellect which goes under the rubric of "Good Soldier"   to tell us:   

1)    which US president ruled for 40 years

2)   which American dissenters were assassinated by the CIA

3) how much power the legislature and judiciary have in Libya to be independent of the Brother Leader.


Seems like it may be a long wait.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 07:09 PM

"Good Soldier Schweik" aka Dick Miles - at least "lighter" provides references to check, you don't. If there is anybody coming out with "cods-wallop" it's you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 05:40 PM

lighter, cods wallop.