 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Bonzo3legs Date: 22 Mar 11 - 06:53 AM Rest assured that, in the current jargon, all is: 1 Clear 2 Quite Clear 3 Very Clear 4 Completely Clear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Teribus Date: 22 Mar 11 - 06:12 AM If you are going to enforce a "No-Fly" Zone then YOU have to create the conditions such that YOUR aircraft can fly over it without risk of attack. Hence the stikes by French Aircraft and US and British Tomahawk missiles. "Better the Arabs do it tolerably than that you do it perfectly. It is their war, and you are to help them, not to win it for them." - T.E.Lawrence And that is exactly what you are seeing here today in Libya. The uprising in Libya has got nothing whatsoever to do with a sudden yearning for democracy in whatever form it might present itself. What you are seeing bubbling over in Libya today is a tribal conflict nothing more, nothing less. The "people of Libya", or at least the people of certain tribal groups in Libya (At least three of such tribal groups) are attempting to rid themselves of the current Kleptocracy that has been ruling the country for 40 years. If anyone thinks that this is anything new for Libya then think again, such uprisings have happened in the past and were put down mercilessly - the policy and practice of "collective punishment" is enshrined in Libyan law (Something introduced by Col. Gaddafi), so please do not worry yourselves about who the "Rebels"; "Insurgents"; "Combatants" are, that simply does not matter to Gaddafi as he has shown in the past. We did not hear about things then because these uprisings happened in Libya's Pariah years when Libya and the regime of Gaddafi were isolated and shunned, nobody reported it. Nobody would have reported this one now had it not been for GWB acting as he did in March 2003. The fate of Iraq and Saddam Hussein registered with Muammar Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi and it shook him rigid because Libya appeared amongst the US Intelligence communities list of potential candidates to play the role of "Rogue State". As far as the armed forces of the Arab countries go it should be remebered that they are there not to protect the country from an external aggressor, they exist to protect the ruling caste. - Had the Army in Tunisia turned against the people and started slaughtering them - the UN would have acted - Had the Army in Egypt turned against the people and started slaughtering them - the UN would have acted - The Army in Libya plus a whole rake of mecenaries provided by Gaddafi's African friends were ordered out to slaughter the people and - THE UN HAVE ACTED - and they have acted on the specific requests of the Arab League and the The Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (Commonly known as the Gulf Cooperation Council the GCC) In Bahrain the situation is quite different, and again it has nothing whatsoever to do with the events in Tunisia or Egypt, nothing whatsoever to do with human rights or democracy, it is a plain and simple attempt at destabilising a small country by a foreign power - Iran. Bahrain has a total population of some 1,234,000 people of whom 666,172 are not citizens of Bahrain at all, they are "guest foreign workers". The indigenous population of Bahrain are Sunni Arabs, most of the "guest foreign workers" are Shia Arabs. The largest single ethnic group within this collection of "guest foreign workers" are the Indians some of whom have been living and trading in Bahrain for decades. The Shia Arabs who are "protesting" have been attacking the Indians and trying to drive them out of Bahrain. The rulers of Bahrain appealed for help and assistance from the GCC and got it. Iran has long held claims of sovereignty on Bahrain which has prompted moves to destabilise the country ever since it gained its independence. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: akenaton Date: 22 Mar 11 - 03:40 AM Well said No 6. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 22 Mar 11 - 01:58 AM This was a huge mistake, the way we got involved!!..and time will show it! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:11 PM I should add ... and why is this revolution of the young happening in the mideast, and not say Europe, or latin America ... it's because the mideast is more vulnerable to change, it has to change ... they have been manipulated by the Western World, they have had corrupt dictators running their countries and they have been the victims of war and upheaval for the last century ... they having nothing to lose to bring them into this brave new century. biLL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:02 PM These rebels are mostly made up of the young (in there teens and very early twenties) .... this was first evident with the protesters in Egypt and we continue to see in the rest of these mideast countries where upheaval is happening. What were are seeing is a revolution against the old status quo whatever it may be in the mideast... a dawning of of the 21st century for the mideast. These rebels certainly are not going to embrace the western world and it's 2oth century state of mind and it's form of 2oth century governance. That is why we should not get involved militarily. What the western world is expecting, is not what it will turn out to be. Yes this is a new beginning in the mideast but we will be left behind until the young in the western world revolts against the old status quo here. The revolution of the young against the old regimes ... the 'change' has to come, for better or worse. biLL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: gnu Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:44 PM I haven't read most of this thread. But, the simple fact that Quackdaffy has employed mercenaries from foreign countries disturbs me greatly... why would such be necessary? Now, the fact that he has rubbed shoulders in photo ops with many, including Blair shortly after (during?) that little Saddam affair, also disturbs me, but, as I said, I haven't read most of this thread. BP was just setting up operations in Libya. Any connections? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:31 PM akenaton- The targets are plainly the "rebels", "insurgents", "Terrorists", "freedom fighters", take your pick they were with us in Iraq and are with us still. No, it's not at all clear to me what the range of rebels includes but I think you missed a few students, intellectuals, professionals, military men, and politicians. The only thing that was simple in this situation is that there was going to be a bloodbath in Benghazi, not to mention in a few other towns that the rebels held. And do you really believe that Gadhaffi's troops would have slaughtered only the "real rebels" and not their families, and not anyone else who happened to be in their neighborhood? What won't work in this situation is if the Coalition manages to kill more civilians in implementing UN resolution 1973 than Gadahaffi would have. Thats one of the things that stank about "our" liberation of Iraq. Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Ron Davies Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:40 PM So are the critics of the West's response at least all willing to admit that the Libyan uprising started as completely a home-grown action? So we won't hear any more tripe about a "Sudetenland" parallel or "colonialism" as the origin of the conflict? That at least would be a step towards wisdom. One step at a time seems best to explain the situation to some posters |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Richard Bridge Date: 21 Mar 11 - 07:25 PM Or, they could, in accordance with local law, have stopped. FFS, if rebels rebel, at least they might not winge about it. They rebel - they might win. Or they might lose. Those are matters of internal politics and nothing to do with anyone else. Indeed, I am starting to suspect that the UN resolution was ultra vires in the first place. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Steve Date: 21 Mar 11 - 07:23 PM Thats a very good point Bobad, the truth is, in our cozy western democracies, we behave like spoilt children, we have no concept of what its like to live under such a regime, this woolly liberal line that pussyfoots about and harps on about the injustices in the world while not making any decisions to actually do anything is pathetic, the truth is, sometimes, its unpalateable, but you have to get your hands dirty and yes, sometimes bloody for the greater and long term good. I knew i would get a decent debate here at Mudcat!!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 21 Mar 11 - 07:10 PM The ""rebels", "insurgents", "Terrorists", "freedom fighters"" are ordinary citizens who started out peacefully protesting against their oppression and for more democratic representation until they were brutally put upon by a brutal dictator and were forced to take up arms to defend themselves against his brutality. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Steve Date: 21 Mar 11 - 06:52 PM @ Akenaton, isnt that exactly what he was doing, shelling Benghazi and other cities indiscriminately, yeh ok, his beef was with the rebels, but dont think for one minute he would have stopped the fighting / shelling to let the local school children cross the road!!! he threatend to go from house to house hunting people down, put yourself in a postion where you could do something, would you really take the risk, and why is it that everyone seems to think Gadaffi is a man of honour and his word is the truth, while our governments are all blundering liars thats only desire is global domination, personally i would believe the British/French and U.S governments over a tinpot dictator like Gadaffi anytime, i know theyre not perfect, but theyre a long way from that shower of SH*T. As i said in my prior post, its a sad day when you have to take the gloves off and actually do something nasty, but that time had come, the "Massacre at Benghazi 2011" never happened, and thats to our credit!!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Mar 11 - 06:22 PM On the one hand, I think Gadhafi provoked the whole thing in the first place by violently suppressing demonstrators. On the other hand, he is now doing what any sovereign state does in the face of a rebellion, and sending out the police and military to crush the rebels. Every state does that in the face of armed rebellion. I do not sympathize with Gadhafi in any way, and I hope he is removed from power, but I can understand why foreign intervention is viewed by some as an illegal intervention into the domestic affairs of Libya. So there's reason present on both sides of this argument. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: akenaton Date: 21 Mar 11 - 06:06 PM Steve....If Gadaffi's aim was to "massacre civilians" he could have accomplished that in two minutes by a rocket attack on areas with high density populations.......and what would Col Gadaffi have to gain from such a course of action? The targets are plainly the "rebels", "insurgents", "Terrorists", "freedom fighters", take your pick they were with us in Iraq and are with us still. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Steve Date: 21 Mar 11 - 05:54 PM Years since ive been on here, but i have to say, its a sad state of affairs when military force is used, and i hope to whatever god there could possibly be that one day we wont ever have to do it again, but I wouldnt want to live in a world where we had left Gadaffi's forces to enter Benghazi and carry out his threats, the no fly zone has to be enforced with force, we have learnt from Bosnia where allied pilots got a ringside view of 8000 men & boys being executed and couldnt do a damn thing about it. And yes, there other problems in the world and other dictators, and to be honest i dont have the answers, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt help out with this one. All these people want is to walk into a polling booth and change theyre government with a pen, its a right that we take for granted and sadly too few people choose to participate in. Every democracy that exists has cost bloodshed, when the fighting is over its remembered, its not taken for granted, it will be mourned for many years, but its the one thing that makes our freedom and democracy worth having. I wish the Lybian people well, and hope the armed forces realise they are in a fight they cannot and will not win and turn on Gadaffi A.S.A.P. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: akenaton Date: 21 Mar 11 - 05:15 PM Thanks LH ......and Brucie :0) Ron of course I don't think Gadaffi is a "reasonable" person, but on the other hand I dont think any "reasonable" person can successfully govern a country such as Iraq, Afghanistan, or even Libya, as a "liberal democracy". I was giving our new Prime minister Cameron the benefit of the doubt, as he and his government have inherited a huge albatross in the form of the national financial deficite, but his actions over this issue have made me think again. He came across as a pompous, smug, well fed, public schoolboy, parroting rhetoric straight out of some upper class boy's war comic. Stupid, uncaring and blind to the real issues involved in the attack on a sovereign nation. I'm sorry to say so Ron, but I feel your simplistic take on this does no credit to someone who appears to have an above average grasp of political machinations If you would spend less time verbally abusing Little Hawk and instead attempt to learn a fraction of his insight, you would perhaps find yourself a wiser, more interesting and better liked |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM And as I just said on another thread, Ron... "I haven't heard of anyone who thinks Gadhafi is a "reasonable person" (except Gadhafi himself, possibly), so the question you asked of Ake in that respect is just another pointless snide remark uttered with no other purpose than to sneer in Ake's general direction and imply that he's a halfwit or a simpleton." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Ron Davies Date: 21 Mar 11 - 02:25 PM As I said elsewhere, Ake, give us your evidence that Gadhafi is a reasonable person. Why exactly should we let him go back to wiping out his opposition--which has appealed to us over and over for assistance? So sorry there is not enough "smell of burning flesh" to suit you. I suspect Mr. Gadhafi would have been willing to give you all you need. Perhaps you would like to seek professional help for your obsession. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 21 Mar 11 - 01:41 PM You'll get even more pissed off when your post is deleted because ya didn't use your usual moniker. fyi |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST Date: 21 Mar 11 - 01:38 PM Poster is apparently akenaton
Apparently planes are attacking Gadaffi's troops as they retreat. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Bonzo3legs Date: 21 Mar 11 - 12:51 PM I wonder why our leaders are not chosen from Mudcat!!!!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Mar 11 - 12:02 PM DMcG: "One thing that has struck me about this is how the UN resolution hasn't learnt anything from the way the remarkable way in which these rebellions were organised and has a concept of war that is still frankly 19th century." What's just as bad, is that WE (the Allies), are not learning, either. We are getting entangled, and getting bogged down all over the Mideast, sorta like Tar Baby and the brier patch, and very much like the Roman Empire, who got spread all over the place, in a series of small wars, which was the final blow, to them(along with their decaying morals). We, like the Romans, cannot afford to be enforcing 'peace'(?), in every place we have trading interests, and the Muslims in the Mideast, with their goals, may have created 'quicksand' to lure us into, much like a repeat of Rome. Also, I'm sure we have to repay the Europeans, for their participation, in the Iraq, Pakistan, Afghan (etc) excursions. But, alas, we shortsighted, short memory span, Yanks can get all whooped up emotionally about the politics of it, and all too often forget the common sense of it, as long as the 'news' media can keep us 'entertained with it'. History teaches us, that man never learns from history!!! Bush had his, Obama has got his..but were either of them, really in charge? Meanwhile, Israel is getting fired on by missiles. When they finally get pissed off enough, without the U.S. to restrain them, this whole thing could EASILY ignite to a full blown, massive human catastrophe, that could spread everywhere!(Depending on whom is going to ally with whom). I very much question the wisdom of this, and other Mideast excursions into the brier patch, to visit the Tar Baby, (or 'Oil Baby', if you will). If we need oil, get it from here, while transforming our energy sources.....but the overly left, get all pissy about drilling....but love their gas, and plastic etc. Charley Noble: "Note that the Republicans in the States have now shifted their critique from "intervention was needed yesterday" to "too much intervention too late." I just heard a person who worked in the Reagan White House, express some of the same concerns that I just posted....she ended with "I don't know about this one, its all too fuzzy, to know what's really going on." I agree with her, coupled with the fact, that this Administration is acting like, the people here don't matter, nor need to be told, nor would support an 'up and above board' effort. This is not good.........but then, ..I read the Book, and have a clue how it ends! So far, its accuracy is more astounding than I even previously imagined! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Lighter Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:55 AM Argument A: The West lusts for oil, so it lets Gaddafi kill the rebels to make sure he keeps selling it to us. Argument B: The West lusts for oil, so it kills Libyans to make sure we get it. Fact: The West doesn't *steal* oil from OPEC. It *buys* it. OPEC wants our money. And if you haven't noticed, OPEC charges as much as it can get. That would be true no matter who rules in Tripoli. (Unless, of course, it turns out the rebels are big fans of al-Qaeda.) So if the West is so fiendish, why not do nothing or even help Gaddafi smash the rebels to let the oil flow? Doing nothing, or helping the G-ster, would also tell our other oil buddies to crack down harder on their own dissidents. (And you know they want to.) But we're bombing Gaddafi. So any oil conspiracy would be far, far more diabolical than anyone can imagine. Is it to divert us from global warming? The economy? Justin Bieber? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:34 AM GfS ... "We don't have leaders here in America...we've got celebrity salesmen" and the Commander in Chief, he's got style .... initiates a military strike ... immediately gets on a plane and flies down to Rio, ok it was actually Brazilia. I can see him there now, sitting on a patio with Dilma Vana Rousseff .... Obama in a Hawiian shirt, a pair of Oakley's on, a caprahini in one hand, his blackberry in the other ... texting with the war room back home, and at the same time praising to Dilma on how Brazil is a model for peace and democracy. biLL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Bonzo3legs Date: 21 Mar 11 - 11:07 AM No he's making sure that his record collection is not bombed, or whatever it is that he collects! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Patsy Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:48 AM As long as they make sure that the son goes too, the younger Gaddafi looks dangerous to me. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Number 6 Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:43 AM The Canadian CF-18's are now in Italy. They are getting an oil change and having the winter tires changed for all seasons (I hear they got a good deal on some Perelli's) . They should be ready to help in kicking some ass by the end of this week. biLL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 21 Mar 11 - 08:18 AM Getting sucked into this thread again! Oh, I'm sure the European nations as well as the United States and the Arab League are all piling on Gaddafi and his family for the primary reason of restoring stability in the world oil market, and some modicum of concern for the humanitarian situation. It is a popular cause worldwide, evidently. Everything works well in this case for intervention, although it came at the last possible moment. Note that the Republicans in the States have now shifted their critique from "intervention was needed yesterday" to "too much intervention too late." The Arab League after a few stumbles seems to be back on board this morning. But real military support from Arab nations is needed fast to maintain popular support for the Coalition effort. But who made the cut for the "Final Four"? Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: DMcG Date: 21 Mar 11 - 05:53 AM I think I am real enough, Alan. I did not say jamming was an alternative to other action, did I? I think it is the kind of action we should undertake *in addition* to other means. Yet the phrasing of the resolution is addressed squarely at troops and military facilities, so the allies would need to be trying to find a way of justifying attacking propaganda sources on the grounds of their military significance. Our experience of the significance of propaganda in almost 20th century wars is such I feel it should have been included more directly. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Alan Whittle Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:54 AM Get real DMcG. Aircaft couldn't hit the enemy in WW2 and used to hit our guys despite the fact that our tanks had a big white star on top. In the Falklands, they coudn't disable something as big as a bloody airfield. Nowadays airplanes go even faster. they're bound to miss their targets and kill innocent folk. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:35 AM 100 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:35 AM Good morning. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: DMcG Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:28 AM One thing that has struck me about this is how the UN resolution hasn't learnt anything from the way the remarkable way in which these rebellions were organised and has a concept of war that is still frankly 19th century. For example, I am sure it must be possible to jam or disable the means to make television or radio broadcasts which would greatly reduce the propaganda advantage Gaddafi has; but I am not at all clear that is authorised under the resolution |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:13 AM Naw, Now that he's been in office long enough for the dummies to finally get what he's about, I think they're too embarrassed; his supporters are afraid of being found out as being lamer than polka-dotted shit balls....with pansies growing out of them!..He is just getting to hard to defend, with a straight face! They just didn't listen, when I was calling him Oblabbo, during the elections. We don't have leaders here in America...we've got celebrity salesmen.....and bogus crusaders!!! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: akenaton Date: 21 Mar 11 - 04:04 AM All the Obama "liberals" seem to have mysteriously vanished.....have they been incarcerated by the forces of darkness? Or is there another reason? Conspiracy lives! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 21 Mar 11 - 12:40 AM Little Hawk: "Why is action being taken by the West in Libya, specifically?...." Possibly the oil hub....but, in all honesty, I'm not exactly sure of all the reasons..but the big terminals are in the east. I've been more focused these days on the music. Just did a two night concert gig, and wrote some stuff for a new female vocalist to try. It went over great! ..even tears in the audience. Great song!..and she pulled it off(a gambled for surprise). Ron Davies: ""...pulling the strings...." Ah yes, perhaps the dark conspiracy theorist's favorite phrase." OKAY, you tell me how someone can be so negligent, and rule against the will of the people, AND the Constitution, without getting directives from elsewhere. I was trying to give him credit for not being so blatantly incompetent..but, you can have it your way, too....I could buy that.....but something here doesn't quite wash, as being up and above board, wouldn't you say??...unless, of course you are one of those people who support wars where we don't belong.(?) In that case, I would think you supported both Bush's excursions into the mid-east...or Reagan's venture, in bombing Qaddafi...maybe you were. That's your prerogative. But it ain't no 'conspiracy theory'....its just the way it is. GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Mar 11 - 12:29 AM The only logic most people will tolerate is that which supports their chosen position. They ignore all other forms of logic. This is equally true of most people on both the Right and the Left (though my sympathies lie almost entirely with the Left). What I'm saying is: I recognize the bullshit, hypocrisy, and self-serving nonsense that is so common on both sides of the table....but I like the original philosophical bent of the Left far better in most respects. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: BTNG Date: 21 Mar 11 - 12:04 AM why is it that right wing loonies like bonzo_3_legs think that just because one doesn't support David Cameron and that political opportunist Nick Clegg, one MUST have voted Labour? no logic there. But when did the right wing ever allow logic to get in the way of their agenda? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Mar 11 - 11:59 PM Why is action being taken by the West in Libya, specifically? Out of altruism only? I doubt that. There must be a number of serious pragmatic reasons for doing so, I would think. I don't call that a "conspiracy", I call it Realpolitik, as always. Countries make moves that they think will be of benefit to themselves in the long run. Various objectives are being sought. One of them might be just to get rid of Gadhafi, because he's a loose cannon and a problem for just about everyone. I could understand the West having such an objective...but that's not altruism. That's practical politics with an objective that makes sense. Why did the West choose to side with the Libyan rebels? Altruism? Well, that's why the general populace in the West (including me and Ron Davies) sympathizes with the rebels...but I very much doubt that it's the reason why several western powers are intervening in the crisis. I think they see an opportunity...but for what, I couldn't say. I have no theories to propound about it..."conspiracy" or otherwise. I just think it's another round of power politics, that's all. Gadhafi appears to have worn out his welcome with his former friends in the West, so he'll probably be replaced in awhile by someone else. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Mar 11 - 11:08 PM "...pulling the strings...." Ah yes, perhaps the dark conspiracy theorist's favorite phrase. Whenever there's any mystery, "they" must be behind it. It's rather amazing how popular that phrase--and that theory--is across the whole political spectrum--with anybody who doesn't bother to do research. I'll admit it certainly is a great excuse for laziness--and of course lazy people can be found across the whole political spectrum. So its popularity should really not be surprising, I suppose. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Mar 11 - 10:51 PM I'm just waiting for Bobert and Amos to pop up and do some Obama cheer-leading. At least Don Firth has expressed some disappointment, with the 'Calamitter in Chief'.....actually, I don't entirely blame Obama for this, but I would blame him for not leveling with the American people, and reveal what's really going on,* and just who is pulling the strings! I think that if he did, and could prove it, both sides would rally behind him, after a bit of skepticism. I think the involved American public are tired of having their intelligence insulted, and treated like a bunch of nobodies, as if we don't matter! GfS *Unless he is only responding to Muslim uprisings, and then and only when they are really in trouble. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Alan Whittle Date: 20 Mar 11 - 10:23 PM What makes this into a nighmare. Bloody Cameron pretending he knows what he's doing. Nobody can even guess how this is going to turn out. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Mar 11 - 10:06 PM Let's just see what develops--as I say, Mudcat conspiracy theories are at least entertaining--with the caveat I mentioned. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Little Hawk Date: 20 Mar 11 - 09:28 PM "But I don't think we should hold our collective breath waiting for said evidence." You shouldn't hold your breath waiting for ANY future post, Ron, either pro or con. Your body needs oxygen, and it is uncertain when the next post from any other person might come. You could fall unconscious before it did or even die! Therefore I suggest that you stop making remarks about us all "holding our collective breath waiting" for this or that, as it wouldn't be a practical idea at all, and it serves no useful rhetorical purpose either in the sense of advancing any form of rational argument. ;-) If you have been holding your breath waiting for people you disagree with to either offer evidence or say something to change your mind, I suggest that you discontinue that unhealthy practice ASAP! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 20 Mar 11 - 08:43 PM GUEST,bankley; "March 19, 2003 - Bush / Iraq March 19, 2011 - Obama / Libya I believe some things don't Change" Blankley, THANK YOU for bringing this post to the attention of our Mudcat partisan, devotees!!! You are scratching the surface, of what is hidden, behind the charade, and facade, of what a bunch of these people can't see, because of their subscription to which ever, the most persuasive propaganda, which has been 'tailor-made' to their pre-programming!! It has blinded a lot of folks out there, let alone on here!! GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Mar 11 - 07:35 PM "proxy civil war launched by sympathizers of a foreign power" ...."Sudetenland" Gee, the poster has actually read some history. The fans go wild. Now perhaps he can find some actual evidence that the Libyan uprising was "launched by sympathizers of a foreign power". But I don't think we should hold our collective breath waiting for said evidence. Another sterling example of folkie strategic thinking. No wonder folkies are so admired for this in the wider world. Nobody, however can say that Mudcat conspiracy theories are not entertaining--as long as logic, sense, and facts are not of primary concern. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Mar 11 - 07:20 PM Oh, didn't Israel do that in both Gaza and the Lebanon - specifically civilian positions? And the Allies to Berlin in WWII? How do you invade a city held by rebels without shelling enemy positions? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 20 Mar 11 - 06:20 PM "How do you define a civilian, insurgent, rebel, terrorist bobad?" When tanks and heavy artillery have surrounded and are shelling cities I consider that an attack on civilians. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Greg F. Date: 20 Mar 11 - 05:40 PM SUCH A DEAL! No thanks, I'll pass. Had enuf idiotic, pointless and ultimately self-defeating wars for ten lifetimes. But thanks for asking. |
