BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:32 PM

Not "a view", but "a personal judgement"... Totally different animals.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 01:00 PM

I took it what spaw posted there was his view. With good humour tempering the point he was making.

You may well have taken it that way.

But he was only posting a personal judgement about the poster.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:35 PM

Greg...Your "American way" is also the way of much of the world. In an ironic and tragic way, the example we get from these people is timely. In an ever shrinking world, their example would do for more than just America.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 12:09 PM

that they have leveled the school. What else could they do?

Well, they could have opted for "The American Way" and built some sort of billion-dollar "holy shrine" out of it- preferably at taxpayer expense- like they're doing in lower Manhattan & elsewhere.

It would do America good to follow the example of the Amish.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 11:02 AM

"whatever their views may be"

I took it what spaw posted there was his view. With good humour tempering the point he was making.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 10:34 AM

...........geeziz......................

So Old Guy, what are you? ......Some kind of closet druggie or something? You need to lay off that narcotic before your entire ass is rendered null and void. Whatever it is you're smokin' or shooting up ain't good for ya'.

Spaw

Whoever and whatever any poster may be - and whatever their views may be - they have as much right to post these views on our forum as anyone else.

Perhaps they should be able to post their views without some other posters feeling they have some right to post only abusive personal judgements and public speculations about them - in response.   

Posts containing only examples of this will tend to only elicit similar responses, cause others to feel that such examples are acceptable posting behaviour to follow and be liable only to inhibit other posters from contributing their views. Not every poster has a thick protective hide and perhaps should not need one on our forum?

The poster subject to this reaction in this thread has to their credit - at least stuck to the thread's subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 09:03 AM

There was a report today that they have leveled the school. What else could they do? Fire purifies.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 12 Oct 06 - 04:40 AM

A total ban on guns in the U.S.A. immediately after Charlton Heston has been shot right up the poop shoot

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: ebola
Date: 11 Oct 06 - 10:10 AM

The more innocent the Vic
the more horrific the crime.

The more horrible the crime
the more goosebumps for the Prep.
What separates Roberts
gunning down the Amish schoolgirls from

Bush sending the young to war or
Foley preying on teenage papes
or kids detonating mullah-bombs in
mosques and malls and marketplaces?

The men are sick all over the world.
Parasites of their own humanity.
Don't you believe this is all about sex?
Feel my power, baby! Feel my doom.

Always remember Marian Fisher....

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 05:32 PM

calm down sonny.

you'll find the world ain't so bad. theres lots of nice things for a lad your age. theres football, swimming, Playboy Magazine....Total Guitar Magazine.

just don't say the bad words in front of your Mom.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 05:18 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Old Guy - PM
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 12:52 PM

About 40 years after all the violence is off TV and out of other media like rap music and movies.

It is poisoning society.

---

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Old Guy - PM
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 01:02 AM

Maybe 50 years.

These terrorists are not going to go away untill two generations after all the Madrasahs are shut down.

---

I was not trying to say that the guy was a terrorist. I was trying to say that our society is being exposed to violence that causes this type of thing. Just like the extermist Madrassahs create terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 02:38 PM

Just when I had gotten to a place where I could ignore this cliche spouting, old horses patoot, he makes this connection. Old Guy, I can only hope that you are just jerking chains here. If not, you are a sick man. If so, you are still a sick man, as using a thread that should be dealing with a serious problem to promote this is just bent.

Damn, I have to quit reading this aul load of shite and just watch something intellectually more uplifting ....... like professional wrestling.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 02:24 PM

So this church-going yankee who went out and did these terrible murders was actually some kind of undercover jihadist?

Anagrams can sometimes hit the spot surprisingly well: "Old Guy" - "Do Ugly" and "Duly Go"...

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 09:02 AM

Actually he IS an Old Guy trying to experience his lost youth by acting like a teenage boy. His body IS undergoing changes but they're different than the ones of his boyhood as now his nuts are smaller than a couple of dessicated peas and his pecker looks like a half-eaten cocktail weenie. It is this that has brought on his return-to-youth syndrome. Alas, the pathetic state of his genitals caused him to lose the love of his life, a long running and torrid affair with a Yak named Doris at his local zoo.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 08:10 AM

only kidding... in actual fact, old guy is a spry fourteen year old who just repeats what he hears what he hears on CNN every night.

His parents don't understand him. Why doesn't he watch the porn channels all the other kids. they worry, how they worry! But its no good, this cut and paste activity business makes him feel grown up.

Its a sort of evasion of real life. He's very nervous of talking to girls. they way they make him blush and stammer, he feels it could be a communist plot to undermine the flower of American youth. Also his body is experiencing certain changes.....

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 03:42 AM

aw geez...... ***shudder*** ................That's too hideous to think about .................................. Do ya' reckon that Old Guy does Number 2 in his Depends? I mean, he has lost control of his mind, could his bowels be far behind?

Wow weelittledrummer......That's a pretty bleak future ain't it?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 03:30 AM

you'll be old yourself one day, spaw.

imagine it. you'll be sat there thinking - muslim fundamentalists, bleeding heart liberals, Bill Clinton, rap music...the world is going to hell!

I'll cut and paste something, that'll show em!

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 02:52 AM

...........geeziz......................

So Old Guy, what are you? ......Some kind of closet druggie or something? You need to lay off that narcotic before your entire ass is rendered null and void. Whatever it is you're smokin' or shooting up ain't good for ya'.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Old Guy
Date: 08 Oct 06 - 01:53 AM

I meant to say extremist or fundamentalist Madrasahs.

They are recruited from among the lower classes and lower-middle classes. In the Afghan-Pakistan arena, there are members of Pashtun tribes who enroll in these madrassas. There are peasant children from the peasant backgrounds. And occasionally there are also lower middle-class children they are very able to recruit among people in Pakistan particularly who don't have any access to any other kind of schooling. ...

That's why the ideology that's propagated by these schools is so significant in shaping minds in the Muslim world. So if regular schooling is not schooling people, and schools that propagate fanaticism are schooling people, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out what would be the impact on society.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 07:11 AM

What on Earth have Madrasahs got to do with this murder?

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Old Guy
Date: 07 Oct 06 - 01:02 AM

Maybe 50 years.

These terrorists are not going to go away untill two generations after all the Madrasahs are shut down.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 02:57 PM

I agree with you on that one, Old Guy. Also agree with Partridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: GUEST,Partridge
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 02:34 PM

I'not quite sure what I'm going to say........... its very very sad
"The main thing they want to say to the world is not how awful this event is, but that their faith in God is strong and they have forgiven the shooter. They hope that other people throughout the nation will be drawn closer to God through their witness,"
I think this says it all.
I believe that we are here for a reason and that we have a mission. I thank the higher power that my children did not have to have this one.
Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Old Guy
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 12:52 PM

About 40 years after all the violence is off TV and out of other media like rap music and movies.

It is poisoning society.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Oct 06 - 07:17 AM

According to Ms. Rhoads, on Monday evening a grandfather of one of the girls called on Marie Roberts, the widow of the killer, to express the forgiveness that is at the heart of Amish spirituality. Mrs. Roberts later sent a message to the local Amish bishop, asking permission to visit the community after the funerals.

"He was overjoyed," Ms. Rhoads said, adding that the bishop is a grandfather to some of the shooting victims. He said he had hoped that the Roberts family would come to visit, she said.

The Amish, who cultivate modesty and have religious injunctions against being photographed, have found the media attention disturbing. But there is a message they hope is transmitted by the same media that they will never see or read.

"The main thing they want to say to the world is not how awful this event is, but that their faith in God is strong and they have forgiven the shooter. They hope that other people throughout the nation will be drawn closer to God through their witness," she said.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 07:05 PM

What incredibly brave girls:

Rita Rhoads, a Mennonite nurse/midwife who delivered two of the victims, said Barbie Fisher, who was wounded in the attack, told her grandfather that Roberts first asked the girls to pray for him when he entered the school. When he became menacing, her sister Marian, 13, who will be buried today, asked him to "shoot her first." Barbie then told him to shoot her next.

"Once they were tied up they knew they were going to be shot," Rhoads said. "They just stood there with courage."

Here's the donation info:

Amish Victims and Contributions for the Families


Those who have died from the Amish School shooting on Oct. 2nd include:

Naomi Rose Ebersole (7 years old)
Anna Mae Stoltzfus (12)
Marian Fisher (13)
Mary Liz Miller (8)
Mary's sister Lena Miller (7)

Five other children, including Anna Mae Stoltzfus' sister, are still hospitalized.
Also dead is the killer, Charles Roberts IV.


The following information is provided for those who wish to send letters of condolences or who wish to donate funds to the families of the victims, including the Roberts family:

Cards and letters of condolences can be sent to Bart Twp. Fire Company, P.O. Box 72, 11 Furnace Road, Bart, PA 17503.

Donations for the Nickel Mines Children's Funds and the Roberts Family Fund can be sent to Coatesville Savings Bank, 1082 Georgetown Road, Paradise, PA 17562.

The Nickel Mines School Victims Fund has been established by Hometown Heritage Bank. Contributions can be sent to the bank at 100 Historic Drive, P.O. Box 337, Strasburg, PA 17579.

Mennonite Central Committee and Mennonite Disaster Service has established the Amish School Recovery Fund to help the Amish community with medical care, transportation, and support. Donations can be made by calling MCC at 717-859-1151 or MDS at 717-859-2210. You can donate online at mcc.org or mds.mennonite.net or mail to Mennonite Central Committee, 21 S. 12th St., P.O. Box 500, Akron, PA 17501 or Mennonite Disaster Service, 1018 Main St., Akron, PA 17501

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 05:43 PM

That's because, unlike most people, they genuinely DO practice what they preach, Raptor, and they live by the Golden Rule.

More power to them. They are a shining example.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 05:38 PM

They have also made it clear to the Family of the Shooter that they would be sorry to see them move out of thier comunity over this!

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 05:36 PM

The Amish are accepting donatitons. They don't carry health insurance and with the victoms in intensive care and the medical atention given to the first girls, The bill is huge!

I'm not sure where the donations are being accepted but I heard it on the CBC this AM. I'm sure one of you can find the aproprite links and post the here!


Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 01:53 PM

Sheesh! On the other hand, that might improve the kids' performance at school.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 01:47 PM

Speaking of arming teachers: Click

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 05:41 AM

I've often thout it imight be fun to have an airgun , and shoot at tin cans in the garden - maybe join a club, shoot in competition and things.

But I know this about myself - I am prone to depression, so a gun is not a smart thing to have around. Luckily I don't live in a country where I could go out and buy a gun easily.

And the inhibitions that I feel and curbs on my freedom, I think they probably save the lives of people. Not from me particularly, but perhaps from people who have had a tougher life, less education, less loving parents, just less of everything.

Like I say it just feelings, can't prove anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: The Shambles
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 05:08 AM

You may have missed the following editing comment as it was inserted into an existing post and did not refresh the thread.

Big Stick's messages were deleted. They were just weird.
-Joe Offer-

You will have also missed the chance to judge for yourself if you considered these posts to be 'weird'. Or weird enough to justify you not being permitted to judge for yourself.

Is being judged - just weird - really grounds for imposed censorship? If it is to be - perhaps many regular posters now have grounds to worry?

Closed threads and deleted posts

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: GUEST,hmm
Date: 05 Oct 06 - 03:22 AM

Hey Donuel, I thought your point about neurotoxins was a good one, and I'm sorry that it degenerated into a whimsical discussion of fluoridation.

I've worked in psychiatric hospitals where causal links were established between the presence of certain chemical compounds, pesticides in rural communities, particularly, which may indeed have led to startling behavioral changes, including violence. There are times around here when I wish that clever responders would place a greater value on civility.

And I appreciated Rapaire's observation that the perpetrator most certainly knew that these were non-resistive Christians who would not have raised a hand in self-defense. It clarifies the nature of the crime, and depicts the victims in a light we might otherwise have not seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: pdq
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 11:04 PM

Since the worst of the "Big Stick" exchanges were with me, why does anyone else care. I sure don't. Let people run.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 10:38 PM

pdq,

Joe Offer published an explanation a few messages up. Having read Big Stick's messages, I agree with Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: pdq
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 09:33 PM

A few minutes ago, this thread had 102 posts. Now it has 96 and falling by the minute. Something said here that the moderators can't allow? Shambles is not entirely wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 08:42 PM

.........the right to bare arms?

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: billybob
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 08:08 PM

" people kill people" so true.
I am just so sad, my best joy when I visit the USA is to go to Lancaster County,a perfect place, beautiful people, and according to the news the most forgiving, God bless them.
Wendy( in England)

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 07:20 PM

100

I've always wanted to do that

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 07:19 PM

Since this has drifted from the topic, I shall say "So Long!"

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: GUEST,JJUK
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 07:01 PM

In answer to the most commonly asked question "Why?" recent news reports have uncovered his motives for this senseless act of violence and the taking of so many innocent lives. There were mental issues for him to contend with, he had hidden a sickening secret for many years (this being that he had perpetrated sexual abuse on 2 or more minors in his family some 20+ years ago) and he wanted to do it again, targeting a self-contained community that had little need to protect itself. No amount of gun control or legislation could have prevented this unfortunately, which is even sadder. My opinion (and that is all it is, my OPINION) is that there is no place in ANY society for any form of firearm, the police can be equally as effective with a tazer. The colt .45 or beretta that you keep under your pillow or in your nightstand is a weapon of mass destruction, more people die from bullet wounds than from missile attacks. Just remember this: Guns don't kill people, bullets don't kill people........ PEOPLE kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 04:31 PM

Saying that the perp should have checked himself in at the first sign of mental illness is giving him credit for being in his right mind. Obvioulsy he had not been. A lot of folks who have mental illness need to have it pointed out to them before they realise what is going on and seek help.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM

If you really want to trace the bloodline back properly, Mr Dizzle, he's related to every other human being on the face of the Earth.

So let's just execute everyone, so you can feel better, shall we? Yeah, right. That'll fix the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:20 PM

you guys are going off half cocked and shooting from the hip. Keep your powder dry and stop shooting off your mouth until you see the rights of the eyes. If you give a target group like the NRA enough ammunition you should be able to hit this issue right between the eyes.

Face it, like porn, guns are fun. As they say "the need of the fun outweighs the many deaths by the gun".

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Ernest
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:09 PM

Guest J-Dizzle, if you were serious in your last paragraph, you are acting just like that shootist. Maybe you need some help too - go see a doctor.
Regards
Ernest

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: GUEST,J-Dizzle
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 02:02 PM

Many things come to my mind when I read this article about the Amish school shooting. Questions like most of you, "Why?". There can honestly be no reason for an act such as this.

I look at my life and think back to everything bad that has ever happened to me, and I just could not imagine taking it out on young children or their families. There is no excuse for it. Doctors say its a "mental" thing. Well I am sorry, but that is no excuse for anything.

The sympathy I feel for these families is overwhelming. I could never imagine losing a child, and worse off, losing my child to some imbicile who tied my daughter up and shot her in the back of the head as if there was nothing wrong with it, and then hearing a doctor say its because he was mental.

No, Fuck that. Take this fuckers family and execute each one of them. Execute anyone with that bastards blood in them. Execute his children. Execute his wife. Execute his mother, his father, his sisters and brothers. Execute them all. Fuck this shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 01:38 PM

Well, one would have to believe strongly in there being a "God's plan" in the first place to understand it, wouldn't one, Wolfgang? I don't exactly know what I would say about that... However, if it allows a bereaved person to attain some measure of peace after such a tragedy, is that bad?

I can't understand why people would commit murders before/with suicide either....but I suppose because they have a very sore grievance of some kind raging around inside their heads. They feel that someone did them wrong, and they want to get even.

It's very bad judgement on their part, because no number of wrongs added up together will ever make a right.

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 01:18 PM

We think it was God's plan (one of the fathers who has lost one child so far)

I shall never understand such a thinking. And I shall never understand the urge to commit murders before/with suicide.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Amish shooting When is it going to end?
From: pdq
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 01:14 PM

"empty pop bottles was all that we killed" ~ John Prine in "Paradise"