England's National Musical-Instrument?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,We Subvert Koalas
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 02:26 PM

No, WAV - that's racism, no matter much you wrap it up in your banal euphemisms, the fact is you question immigration on grounds of culture (another banal euphemism; for which read ethnicity) and identify culture in terms of a racially exclusive bunch of risible clichés. Call it what you want, WAV - you are a racist, as is obvious to anyone who reads though these threads.

I ask you again, in respect of your poem:

1) What about the non-Christian nations? And the non-Christian minorities living in the otherwise secular UK if it comes to that!

2) Given the nature of Jesuist teaching, how can you be both a Christian and an unrepentant believer in (and promoter of) such overtly racist bullshit?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 02:17 PM

And your beloved cittern is German. Neither does your recorder originate in England.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 02:10 PM

Volgadon - the guitar is Spanish; the banjo African/American.
That's the questioning of immigration/emigration, WSK (and why?), NOT racism, thus your remark is false and defamatory.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,We Subvert Koalas
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 01:55 PM

Let each Christian nation have its own Church -
Equal, before God, with the others' Search.

Holy Deja Vu! The last time you quoted this drivel (see here - 9th Feruary 2008, 7.48am) I asked you: What about the non-Christian nations? And the non-Christian minorities living in the otherwise secular UK if it comes to that!

To which, in your wisdom, you answered:

Most people, We Subvert Koalas, in the world now, including me, are happy that the WORLD is multicultural...but whether each country should be multicultural is another matter. Sadly, events of the last decade have dramatically shown that trying to have a multiple number of cultures/faiths living under the one state law will always be problomatic

So, WAV - Given the nature of Jesuist teaching, how can you be both a Christian and an unrepentant believer in (and promoter of) such overtly racist bullshit?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 01:05 PM

I dunno. England has a long tradition of elevating simple failures to the status of Heroic Failures.

Perhaps we should just consider WAV as the Eddie the Eagle of poetry, the Captain Bligh of song, or the Scott of the Antarctic of political argument.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 12:44 PM

I also think that you refuse to include the guitar and banjo on your list because you hold very strong prejudices against the USA, even though you've allowed other German instruments on there, just not guitar.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 12:38 PM

I don't think you go to church over matters of the soul as much as because you think it's a national institution.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 12:31 PM

Pardon the poetry, Ralphie, but, C. of E., actually - although I don't accept the Anglican, Roman Catholic, nor any other such imperialistic movement...

Poem 219 of 230: FURTHER ANTI-IMPERIALISM

Let each Christian nation have its own Church -
Equal, before God, with the others' Search.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Back to the thread, do like the sound of the organ, too.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 09:09 AM

One Finger Typing?
Is that the same as One Finger playing?
Admit it WAV.
You have no talent, either as a musician, or a poet.
As an embodiment of all things quintessentially English.
You have failed.
Godbye.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 08:48 AM

No problem with reading and or writing, SS.
More a problem with lack of intelligence as far as WAV is concerned.
(Omigod, He's a Christian as well.....Be very afraid.. 7th day adventist maybe?)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 06:58 AM

The difference is that 'Not waving but drowning' has a strong and immediately recognisable rhythmic pattern - and it doesn't claim to be in a regular metre.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 06:54 AM

>>Ralphie - "Anglicises" not your "Anglicisies"...

Oh dear WAV .... I think all of us had probably realised that Ralphie had had a difficulty with his digital interface there .. more haste less speed when one finger typing ?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 06:06 AM

And from rather before that, the description of Harris playing the banjo in Jerome K. Jerome's "Three Men in a Boat".

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 05:54 AM

Ralphie - "Anglicises" not your "Anglicisies"...did you check a dictionary before asking "which planet are you on?"...you may have found a kind of concertina there also.
And I wonder what would happen if Pip put his "feet" into the poem posted by SP..?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 02:28 AM

Here is more evidence in support of the banjo being one of Engalnd's national instruments, or at least one closely associated with it.
From Kipling's Cholera Camp.

Our Chaplain's got a banjo, an' a skinny mule 'e rides,
An' the stuff 'e says an' sings us, Lord, it makes us split our sides!
With 'is black coat-tails a-bobbin' to Ta-ra-ra Boom-der-ay!
'E's the proper kind o' padre for ten deaths a day.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:39 PM

You're absolutely right, of course, SS. I wouldn't have chosen to hear it set to music... when I accidently did, I was hugely gratified that Vic, bless him, had done a rather good job.

Couldn't find him on t'internet doing this song, but here he is doing 'Strange Language' .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps8-dXpJFoE

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:24 PM

I thought you meant the Aussie Group Not Drowning, Waving ...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 06:47 PM

Yes that certainly is poetry, and exceedingly memorable poetry ... the image in those last two lines has stuck in my brain since I first read them many years ago ... even if I did muddle myself up ... why did I think it was Sylvia Plath ? Sorry to Stevie Smith now ! I'm not sure, though, that I'd actually want to hear that to music .. it doesn't strike me as a poem that actually _needs_ any addition, being fairly stark in outline and content.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 06:14 PM

Nobody heard him, the dead man,
But still he lay moaning:
I was much further out than you thought
And not waving but drowning.

Poor chap, he always loved larking
And now he's dead
It must have been too cold for him his heart gave way,
They said.

Oh, no no no, it was too cold always
(Still the dead one lay moaning)
I was much too far out all my life
And not waving but drowning.

Here's a link to Stevie Smith reading it in 1965.

Now, WAV that's poetry.

Incidently, Vic Chesnutt put this to music rather nicely. He's American, so no oubt he should have chosen a poem from his own good culture. I'm rather glad he didn't...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:52 PM

: waving and not quite drowning - sorry to Sylvia Plath for the misquote)

You mean Stevie Smith.

> the English flute

How common.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:10 PM

Re WAVs Repatriating.

"I only sunbathe in winter"
Whatever floats your boat.
"Behind close glass"
Probably a good idea.
"I may need extra quilts at night"
"Warm or sleepless"
Is that the quilts or yourself that is warm or sleepless?
"But most of my other ways spell....Anglicises"
Tried to make sense but now,I feel that I've lost the will to live.
Anglicisies? What planet are you on?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 03:03 PM

...I forgot the ? and you put two.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 02:49 PM

To which the only response is "Eh??". Sorry WAV - your meaning, and the allusion to my reference to the country of origin of the Duet concertina, are lost on me. The nice thing about the English language when used properly is that one can at least understand it ... even poetry like that of Gerard Manley Hopkins with its sprung metre and inversion of words ,which I found rather hard going when studying it at university the first time round, but now rather relish. Regrettably that little bit of doggerel above loses any sense or accurate meaning with your incorrect use of the last word ... now had you used the word "anglicising" or "anglicisation" you might have been in with a very very slim chance (exceedingly slim). But sadly I think William McGonagall (if that's the way it's spelled) would probably win hands down in a contest on the grounds of being intelligible.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 02:07 PM

On keyboards (and the English flute, of course), WAV plays just the tune/top-line melody WITH BOTH HANDS.
Ralphie - you were almost the first one to say: "Welcome home WAV!", or suchlike.
Surreysinger - "Englishness" (you, above) or "Anglicises" (me, below)...

Poem 228 of 230: REPATRIATING

I only sunbathe in winter -
    Behind closed glass;
I may need extra quilts at night -
    Warm or sleepless;
But most of my other ways spell -
    Anglicises.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:59 AM

I bow my head in humble acknowledgement of the truth in that statement .. after all, I am but a wench, and know my place ... hah!!!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:54 AM

"All of which, of course, is vastly off topic..."

With WAVs threads, no one is quite sure, IMHO, just what IS off topic, or on, for that matter either...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:45 AM

Hmmmmm......... could there be any doubt about that last ???

Musing upon spellings can sometimes be an interesting pastime .. but probably not as interesting as practising. After all, I've got to get to grips with playing the thing with two hands, haven't I?? (No rude comments, please - in my case I'm probably waving and not quite drowning - sorry to Sylvia Plath for the misquote)

What does musing upon spelling gain me ??
An occasional argument or interesting debate on the vagaries of the English language, maybe.

All of which, of course, is vastly off topic...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:10 AM

Wench. (SS)

Why muse upon spellings?

What does it gain you?

Back to your practising.
Otherwise, You'll end up like WAV. And you wouldn't want that, would you?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 11:03 AM

Captain, far be it from me to descend to the depths which this conversation (diatribe?) now seems to have gloriously plumbed(particularly since it seems to have dragged me away from the practice that I have been condemned to in my role, apparently, as a wench ... what ???) ... what guarantee would there be that the instrument you have offered up for consideration (hmmm..I know I'm going to regret injudicious use of the English language there ... but hey!!) is generically English ?????

And Ralphie ... varlet (??) I was never suggesting that you were using an incorrect spelling of the name (though it apparently is) ... merely that when you took the instrument in question up within the mists of unrecorded time, when dragons flew the earth, and an Englishman's home was his castle, that was the way it was spelled, whereas pedants other than myself have now determined that EVERYBODY had it wrong for years. How it's spelled makes no difference to its position in the rankings of instruments of supreme quality and/or Englishness..... OK, I know, back to my practising ......

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:53 AM

How about "spoons" I don't know if they are played anywhere else.

Russia.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:14 AM

HE SAID THE "T" WORD!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: TheSnail
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:55 AM

Foolestroupe

Peter Cook Pinched it...

An English joke passed down in the oral tradition.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:50 AM

The Spy or Who is Pink Oboe
Series 9, Episode 11
First broadcast on January 12, 1959.
Script by Spike Milligan.

Peter Cook Pinched it...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:24 AM

Mr Snail

Thank You for the link. Haven't seen it in years.
Made my day. Required viewing methinks.
And I almost got the quotes right!
Does anyone think that WAV will get it?
Probably not. Ho Hum.
Answers on a postcard....

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: TheSnail
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:10 AM

Peter Cook

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:10 AM

You're both right - 'troupe was referring to an episode of THEGS, as the clicky will reveal.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Raphie
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:04 AM

Sorry to correct you Mr Troupe.

Twas Peter Cooke in his spoof summing up of the Jeremy Thorpe trial.
"That self confessed player of the Pink Oboe"
Followed by the marvellous line...
"Members of the Jury, you will now retire, (as I should have done some years ago) and carefully consider your verdict of.......Not Guilty.

It's alright though. Old Age comes to us all eventually!!

Salut! Ralphie

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:45 AM

Not Peter Cook - but Spike Milligan...

For this episode, Sellars was ill, and they needed 4 other actors to do his voices...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:39 AM

Captain.
I doubt that our American friends would recognise the Peter Cook reference.
Far less our friend WAV, who was inexplicably out of the country at the time!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:38 AM

Ah Ha! Now we finally know just WHO is Pink Oboe

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:27 AM

I nominate the Pink Oboe.
an instrument that would suit our revered believer in solo melody,It requires a lot of wind,much jaw,and can play top line melody,and is an excellent instrument for those that wish to play solo[without chords].

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:20 AM

"Let he who is without discernable talent, write the first poem."

I thought that was what... oh, sorry....

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:15 AM

Look here Mr Troupe.

Our Australian friends had to suffer WAV for many years.
As he was born in the UK, we have to take our turn.
Lets call it, "Care in the Uncomformity."
It's a heavy burden I know, but, who are we to reject the rejected.

Let he who is without discernable talent, write the first poem.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:09 AM

300!


:-P

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:08 AM

"What WAV does with his left hand, doesn't bear thinking about."

He calls it 'English Folk Traditional Music'...


"But not the Hohner Pokerwork, DaveM - the melodeon being of Viennese origin; although, like the Italian fiddle/violin, played a lot in England nowadays."

Ah So! WAV, being of English Origin, could never be called an "Aussie" while he was here, so he was forced to go back home...

In joyful strains then let us sing, "Advance Australia fair!"

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:45 AM

Hello Surrey(pedant)Singer.

I reserve my right (as an Englishman) to alter peoples names as often as I like, so there!
It's called the "Folk Tradition"

Back to your practising, wench.

To all others, what I do with my left hand is my own affair.
At least it's done behind closed doors with the curtains shut and the lights off.

What WAV does with his left hand, doesn't bear thinking about.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:00 AM

You're still calling me a woody Englishman, Woody, and, as for my essays, I've kept those papers in a folder, Terry, but, frankly, have other things to do before thinking about typing them onto the web; e.g, I'm still working out the tunes, using my tenor English-flute and keys, to my 17 "Chants from Walkabouts"; incidentally, for a while I was asking folks about "Finale" software to help with this but, although slow compared with some of the folkies I've met, I'm okay now - via mimicking my singing.
Then Ralphie went further than Woody - "WAV is not English!", even after my response to this matter, above.
Oldguit - for what it's worth, I think I'll add "spoons" to the list on my site, which has already changed slightly, due to this this discussion, from what Pip took the liberty of posting here at - Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:12 AM. And to Pip - you forgot that folk is not the only English genre (how about our hymns and composer music) and/or didn't READ the titles properly, which don't have the word "traditional" in them; indeed, on the up-to-date list, you'll find the stylophone...
But not the Hohner Pokerwork, DaveM - the melodeon being of Viennese origin; although, like the Italian fiddle/violin, played a lot in England nowadays.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 06:24 AM

"I play the McCann Duet. If I only played the tune, what exactly would my left hand be doing?"

I dread to think...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Mr Beard's Inane Apprentice
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 06:06 AM

I hope IB is still looking in. I really want to go for a drink with him sometime.

Hi Ruth - I've been instructed to keep an eye on pertinent developments as and when they occur & am assured that a drink would be well in order. IB and the missus are often over in Newcastle, generally on the first Saturday, thus coinciding family visits with a trip to Joe Crane's Come-All-Ye at The Cumberland Arms in Byker - one of the finest sings in the North East, in one of the last remaining traditional pubs wherein singers young and old gladly celebrate in the traditional manner, accompanied, unaccompanied, or otherwise. And we're assured it's a WAV free zone on account of that particular personage preferring to listen to folk radio (whatever the hell that might be) than actually partake of a living, breathing singaround - so no fears there Dave (Bridge). Good beer, no mead, and the only sign of daft Davey is his pathetic promotional poster on the noticeboard bearing his Jack-boot stamp on the face of human freedom directing you to his FREE WEBSITE which openly promotes racial hatred and intolerance with such slogans as:

English culture is taking a hammering and, when people lose their own culture, society suffers.

And talking openly promoting racial hatred and intolerance (or is it just a case of puerile attention seeking at this stage? Either way it garners no sympathy in this camp), we have the following little piece of total(itarian) crap:

whether there should be a Scottish pipes comp within the borders of England is another matter.

Ominous stuff! No doubt WAV has plans to sort out that little aberration once his Glorious World Reich Dictatorship is in order (sorry, a stronger UN with greater powers of regulation) and all nations are ethnically & culturally cleansed of such noxious pollutants.

And for those caught up in the recorder hullabaloo a while back, our thanks to Jack Campin for his fascinating information, none of which, of course, supports WAVs insane idea of the recorder as a Traditional English Folk Flute. But as Pip points out a little way above unless the evidence doesn't support him, in which case he's right and the evidence is wrong.

To close, here's a picture taken by IB whilst out and about in Liverpool yesterday. These are young traditional English folk dancing their traditional English folk dance. Well, as traditional as Morris anyway, certainly as far as these guys are concerned.   

Liverpool Dancers, 24th September 2008

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: DaveM
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:14 AM

I nominate the Hohner Pokerwork as Englands national instrument.