I walked out of session

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:51 PM

Never thought I or anyone is indispensable!
As the old saying goes - put your hand in a bucket of water and when you take it out, the hole left is the amount you are indispensable!
The pity is that the 'novices' (hate that term but cannot think of another) suffer and some have left in the past for the same reason. Us old hands will just go to a different venue but they will most likely not bother for there is nowhere else they can play. They may not be good but they enjoy what they do and to me that is what folk music is about - participation. Met one in a music shop the other day who said he had stopped going because of the 'local'. Pity- nice fella.
I have other venues asking me to attend so I will alternate and watch progress.
Again, thanks for all your inputs to a guest.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: number 6
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:57 PM

Well said Guest. It is indeed true.

biLL

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:55 PM

No one is indispensable. Walk and they'll not bat an eyelid, the world will keep turning.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Rowan
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 05:38 PM

Yet another example of how the personalities/politics of groups can be a source of great wonderment. The only positive suggestion I could offer AA is to consider whether your continued participation is likely to be of more benefit to 'the group' than your continued withdrawal from it and, if it is, whether you can (and wish to) deal with the consequences.

I wish you luck!

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 03:20 PM

Yeah Shaneo!
The session is the best I attend because I hear material I would not think of listening to and yet enjoy it when I hear it. Most of the performers are VERY talented at their style - some styles I don't enjoy (I can only take so much blues - sorry) but acknowledge their musicianship and try to follow their styles when its their turn to 'spotlight'. The beginners/novices are pleasant and keen and without this venue would probably give up/not start. One guy after listening for a couple of months, went out, bought a guitar and now sits in with good performers and is learning. He's not great but in time, who knows?
These are the people most disappointed by my non-appearance (so they say) because they can follow my simple chord progressions (mostly).
I have met blues and classical players I would never meet in a folk club and have become close friends with them (even performed in their blues club). So I am loath to walk completely - the organiser is also a close friend but plays in a band with the 'local'.

I will probably be accused of being immodest but in the interest of a complete tale - I am pretty well known in my area and am asked to attend every folk club around. I try to support each one as I get time. The two newcomers are good musicians (I actually love their music) but unknown in this area. The local is well known and rather than be invited is 'put off' by organisers when they can as he is a pain. I have nothing to fear from any of them and I would guess they would be the first to admit it! The 'local' asks me to sing at his club every time we meet.
Sorry to be so long winded but wanted you to get the picture!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Shaneo
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 12:43 PM

This is the same kind of disrespect whether it comes from the bar staff or a fellow musician ,it seems this fella has a chip on his shoulders and needs to be taken down a peg or two , maybe he was just trying to gain popularity with the two new arrivals for when it was his turn at the mike,
I would not WALK out of this session because as you say Anti Arrogance it is unique and who knows what kind of talent may come out of it.
Tell us more , is this dick head the only reason you are dissatisfied ?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:45 AM

Unfortunately, being a good musician does not automatically confer immunity from being an asshole. And being a nice person does not automatically make you a good musician. Were it otherwise, all the assholes would be bad musicians and all the bad musicians would be assholes, and we could throw them all out, and only we, who are both nice people and good musicians, would remain.

Too bad it isn't that simple, huh?

Peter.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:43 AM

Thanks for the laugh Uncle Arrogance. Me, run away with my tail between my legs? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

I will run away from Fire ants, but not from pissants.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:40 AM

Well Said Jacqui - we were saying a lot of the same thing at the same time , but you snuck in and got the 300 , Dammit !!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:37 AM

Running a session can be a thankless task - IF you try too hard to keep everything moving smoothly , you're liable to be labelled a control freak , but you then get abuse if you DONT keep order !
   Sadly there are stil too many clots who dont have any respect for any one else on the scene .

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:31 AM

300!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:29 AM

Problem is, in that type of situation, although you may get agreement that the boor is being a boor, most of those who agree aint going to put their heads above the parapet. It comes down to 'anything for a quiet life' and, if they know that there will be any sort of reaction from the guitly party then they will not take any action to stop the abuse.

I was in this position a few years back with ignorant performers not only not doing folk in a folk session but then talking through the performances of those who were doing folk songs. The general position was 'live and let live' which really pissed me off. I took to visiting the loo or ordering drinks when one of them was doing the latest interminable Oasis song (badly) or another was singing 'Summertime' for about the tenth week running.

In the end, and as it appeared that the people running the session were not prepared to do anything about it, I stopped going. Soon after that the sessions fell apart and a group of us started up a new session on a strict 'folk' basis.

These idiots, like some posters to this site, have no interest in other people. All they want to do is give their own inflated egos an airing, usually at the expense of others. All they really do is make themselves look small and petty and ridiculous.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Cluin
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:18 AM

We luv ya, babe. But you're sucking all the energy outta the room.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:14 AM

troll alert. Move on, Captain. There is nothing to see here.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 10:12 AM

Thanks Scrump!
I'll try the crisp idea next time I'm in!
By the way GUEST,Uncle Arrogance (very inventive)- I have called in the session for a drink twice since. Have been requested by the other players and the organiser to sing which I have refused. Made it plain to all and sundry that the reason is (as Kendall remarked) that I do not wish to be part of them (the offenders). No one is running - no tail - head held high!
I sing 5/6 nights a week so am not hiding from anyone.
I do not know Kendall but have read many of his posts and doubt if he would be classed as a 'runner' either!

By the way, on the original question on this thread - Yes, you were right to leave Shaneo. If they can't show respect then they don't deserve your respect. Respect is earned!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Uncle Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:58 AM

"Good idea Kendall" Yea! Run away with your tail between your legs. That'll show him.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:57 AM

It does sound as if you're right, Guest AA - no amount of persuasion will work with this type of ignorant ill-mannered person (I know the type, unfortunately). If, as you say, the prime offender sulks if anyone dares whisper during his set, then obviously retaliation in kind, as I suggested earlier, is almost guaranteed to get results.

In the unlikely event of this failing to work, I would heartily recommend an assault on his person - the more violent, the better. Not that I'm violent by nature myself, you understand, and I would only do this as a last resort.

As for what to say while the ignorant person is performing, the more mundane and boring the conversation, the better. Here's an example to get you started:

Arrogant bastard folk singer (at the mic): And now, for your edification and extreme pleasure, I will sing my latest epic song, written only this morning on the bus. Although it has a chorus I would ask you not to sing as I would not want my voice to be drowned out by your inferior efforts. Please give it your utmost attention - I will be dropping several pins during this number to check. (starts intro on guitar)

Guest AA (loudly, to neighbour): I see the forecast for the next few days is unsettled, with rain coming in from the south west, and fog patches in the midlands.
Neighbour (equally loud): Yes, and it's predicted that the east coast will be showery with a risk of frost in low-lying areas. By the way, would you like one of these cheese and onion crisps? (rustles bag)
Guest AA: Why thank you - cheese and onion is one of my favourite flavours. I don't like Prawn Cocktail flavour though, do you? (crunches crisps loudly)
(etc.)

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:27 AM

Guest - If I need lessons in being arrogant I'll come to you - you obviously have plenty to spare!
Why think people are 'scared' of anyone? Most of us have a certain amount of manners instilled in us when young by our parents and know how to behave in company. He (and you) clearly missed out on that and that is your loss!
Thanks to others (good idea Kendall) for your input.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 09:14 AM

Sounds like you're all shit scared of him. These big boys coming in and taking over your session has got your knickers in a real twist hasn't it? There's no point in whispering amongst yourselves or emailing each other if you're fed up with him/them. If you've got as much support as you claim, tell him to follow the accepted code. He'll either do that or walk. If he does neither then as soon as he starts singing all of you start talking and do that until he gets the message. Don't talk to him as you replied to me - he'll probably smack you in the gob for being an arrogant twat.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:42 AM

Sorry!
Forgot to put my name on last post which was aimed at GUEST!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:41 AM

I haven't mentioned whether I am good or bad, just that I expect courtesy. Not arrogance, just simply do unto others as you would be done to. If you can't understand that then you would probably be sat with them!
They showed arrogance by being discourteous to another performer but expect absolute silence when they play!
The local I mentioned will literally sulk for weeks if anyone speaks during his 'spot' and yet is well known for ignoring others. He will even pick his banjo up and play a totally different tune in an acoustic session. He has been involved in numerous folk bands which have all dissolved because of his self-obsession. 30yrs too late for friendly persuasion!
I have already mentioned it but I will repeat for your benefit - all (ten) other players and several of the audience said I was correct. I later got several emails supporting my stance.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: jacqui.c
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:34 AM

Been there - seen and heard it. The types that will behave in that way will very rarely be open to friendly persuasion. They are all performers and should be aware of the usual good manners that are owed to other performers.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:33 AM

Take the high ground and leave. Why would you want to be one of them? Of course, it wouldn't hurt to make enough noise to get their attention on your way out.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:30 AM

It might be a good idea to mention your concerns to whoever runs the session, if you can get a chance to have a quiet word before it starts. Then maybe he/she can make a general announcement to the effect that people should keep quiet while others are performing.

That assumes, of course, that the person isn't one of the three 'offenders'; and that it is indeed the etiquette to keep quiet while people are performing (that seems to be the case normally, but there may be exceptions).

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 08:12 AM

Real "them and us" situation here. Where's the arrogance coming from?

Wouldn't it be easier to lighten the situaton and use friendly persuasion to help them to understand your concerns?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 07:58 AM

Different room Scrump.
But it might be worthwhile ordering my drink without leaving my seat - the landlady could join in by asking me to repeat my request!
Trouble is, most (all) of the other players said I was correct but that I (we) should have talked when they played. But I find that I cannot be that discourteous after a lifetime of giving order when performers are on stage even if I do not enjoy what they do.
Too soft I assume.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 07:02 AM

If the bar's in the same room as the session, you could probably order a drink with ice in it, for maximum effect ;-)

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:48 AM

Nice idea Scrump!
Will use that if I go back.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:28 AM

I would make a point of leaving the room or going to the bar during each of the offending people's own spots.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Anti Arrogance
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:19 AM

Hows about a different slant on the original question.
I attend a weekly unique (in my experience) session/open mike where the singer/instrumentalist performs three songss/tunes thru P.A. Anyone else is free to play/sing along. The original idea was to encourage new/novice players to learn/practice in a friendly atmosphere with experienced musicians.
Pub visitors sit in the room & enjoy a free show which on any one night can consist of Folk, Country, Blues, Rock and Classical guitar. (One night a superb flamenco guitarist turned up and brought the house down in appreciation).
I recently walked out of a session when three other 'musicians' had a conversation across a wide table which caused them to shout to be heard. When I sang louder to compensate they commented that I sang too loud! Two of these were new arrivals in the area (excellent musicianns) whilst one is a well known local 'look-at-me-I-am-great' folk singer.
I decided that if they wouldn't show me respect, I couldn't show them any and could no longer support (i.e. play along) their 'spot'.
Punters noise we accept but shouldn't have to suffer it from within.
Whaddya think?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 04:22 AM

Oops, when I wrote that yesterday I should have said "tomorrow night" not "tonight" - meaning tonight, not last night.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 05:06 PM

No I was fully conscious. Trouble was I found it hard to hold a conversation without raising my voice. Some of the musicians seemed to be evesdropping and they kept looking over in my direction. However, it got better when one or two left early and I found I could hear myself speak. The music wasn't bad but I think they should keep it down a bit.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:14 AM

What, were you asleep GUEST? :-)

I fully intend to walk out of a session tonight. When it finishes, that is.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 08:04 AM

I waked into a session. Bloomin' amazing!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:35 AM

Ah yes - a simple job, just move a piano from one room to another...


... in another country.... :-)


They forgot the sheet music, so they had to busk*** all the way...

***which is 'making it up as you go along' - like 'vamping'...
- not 'begging with music for money'!!!

;-)

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:23 AM

It reminds me of the Goon Show (1950s BBC Radio comedy show) episode "Napoleon's Piano" where the Goons steal Napoleon's piano ("the very piano Napoleon played at Waterloo") from the Louvre museum in Paris, and in the absence of any other transport, have to sail it back to England. Found the entire script here in case anyone's interested... :-)

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Gulliver
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 09:08 AM

This thread is all at sea!!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 07:58 AM

In the play Was He Anyone? 1972) by N F Simpson, an organisation which does NOT RESCUE people in distress, but merely renders them sufficient aid to stop them from getting bored while waiting for the help that will actually rescue them to arrive, gives a guy who has fallen overboard from a cruise ship a grand piano to help him pass the time. Of course, he can't actually play, so they have to give him lessons, and then it starts to get absurd...


Well, N F Simpson was from the Theatre of the Absurd, a style of comedy similar to The Goons and Monty Python...

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 18 Dec 06 - 04:47 AM

You've obviously never tried taking to the water on a grand piano - it's not as easy as it looks - although I admit it's a darn sight easier than sailing an upright ;-)

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: JennyO
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 07:17 PM

they all took to the water with their instruments - only the double bass player survived

I imagine whoever accompanied them on the piano would have done all right too, especially if it was a grand piano!

Boom Boom!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:26 PM

Yup, oui, oui; I caught that; figured it out - although I can see why you're going out of your way to point out the pun, considering my sad record in the humour department lately ...

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:19 PM

Well, you said "Moi, Aussie"!!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 03:45 PM

"they all took to the water with their instruments - only the double bass player survived"

Jeesh, don't tell me some more comedy went over my head. I give up. At least I got the one about the Antipodes ...

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 01:38 PM

Soldier boy

Diiiiiiiiismissed! left-right-left-right-left-right

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 12:57 PM

The triangle player was the one I felt sorry for.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 12:33 PM

Crikie, neither did I!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 11:04 AM

Gee, meself, I had no idea you were from the antipodes

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 07:35 AM

"I suspect Leadfingers was indulging in a little humour." - I'm beginning to question my ability to perceive irony. If I have no such perception, but am aware of its existence, and am able to employ irony, what class does that put me in? (The employer class?).

"I am looking forward to McGrath's input on the class question." - I suspect that McGrath walked out of this session some time ago ...

"- only the double bass player survived" - it may have been an interview with him that I read; I am sure that the interviewee was a string player ...

"Incidentally, I have made it very clear, far above, that I believe that Shaneo was very right to walk." - Moi, aussi. I think that specific issue has been well and thoroughly flogged at this point.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 06:13 AM

We left a session in York under similar circumstances.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Scrump
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 05:44 AM

From what I remember about the Titanic band, as the water reached them they all took to the water with their instruments - only the double bass player survived,