BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 05:51 AM

Good luck to you both Eliza, and thanks for sharing your experiences.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 05:31 AM

Jim, then your father too was admirable in his stance. I'm afraid my father was racist, and had, as you suggest, inherited the 'Glorious British Empire' mindset. His dentist was a black Goan, and I remember being bemused by my father's statement "He's quite a good dentist in spite of the fact he's black." (As if most black men would be more likely to be swinging from trees eating bananas.)

I agree also that in times of shortage and unemployment etc racism thrives as we seek someone to blame. I take heart in the fact that the majority of the British people see the BNP as dangerous and abhorrent. Their Fascism, Nationalism and Racism are redolent of Hitler's Third Reich, and I think WW2 is still there in our collective memory to awake distaste and disgust.

I also agree that unfamiliarity and ignorance play a part in passive racism. On a personal level, the Brits are very pleasant and kind, as my husband has found. At the mosque he attends, the other worshippers, a selection of many races and colours, all agree that the English are extraordinarily friendly and tolerant. I suspect that, had my father lived to meet my husband, they'd have become best mates and gone everywhere together. I do value your point of view, Jim, as you have a more hard-headed and realistic perspective than I, and modify my slightly rose-tinted opinions!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 03:39 AM

Sorry, Eliza, didn't have time to answer your posting.
"And I admire you for not going along with any of it"
Nothing to admire, my life would have been pretty uncomfortable if I had gone home spouting racism, my family, particularly my father, was pretty firm on the subject.
"...that we as a nation haven't changed at all, and haven't learned to be more tolerant and kind?"
I think it comes and goes. Most racism, as I have encountered it, is passive, the suspicion and sometimes fear of anybody different. It is only at the times of social pressure (high unemployment being a major feature) that it becomes a material threat. The East London dockers support for Enoch Powell is, IMO, a classic example of this.
I believe that in Britain passive racism is the result of unfamiliarity and ignorance coupled with our 'Rule Brittania' Empire legacy, which has left us with a national superiority complex.   
The main problem is that there are always militant groups with political agendas waiting in the wings to exploit these 'eccentricities', BNP being the most influential, but plenty of others lurking out there.
Jim Caroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 09:21 AM

I'd be interested to hear, Jon, what follows after "I'm not a racist but..."

There are bits I suppose you could put down to "immigration concerns" but there seems to be a fair bit of "they can't rule themselves", etc. - a general picture of a socially and intellectually inferior race.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 07:18 AM

Sorry, it was Mike not Eliza whose comment I responded to.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 07:15 AM

No Eliza!!

I mean like all of those who try to establish an absolute position in either direction.

Life isn't like that. Everything comes in shades of grey.

Words have meanings, and the fact that some people misinterpret those meanings does not make the words invalid.

For the PC brigade who would ban the word "Black" in school or workplace, what do you say when you are asked why "black" is an insult while "white" is not?

For the anti PC brigade, what would you like us to call a genuine Racist?

Both sides attempt to go too far because they have been at opposite extremes for so long that they have forgotten that there is a middle.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 07:01 AM

. ..... While the words may be over used, they are definitely valid in many cases, but it seems that so-called believers in free speech want them banned.

Oxymoron anyone?

Don T. ...,.,...

You mean, Don, like all the opponents of any form of censorship [apart, natch, from that contained in the Race Relations Acts], I take it?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:55 AM

I'd be interested to hear, Jon, what follows after "I'm not a racist but..." . I've often heard complaints about excessive immigration, danger of terrorism, large and unintegrated populations taking over a town etc. This isn't personally directed racism but a concern for the fabric of Britain, which I share actually. There is a difference I feel.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:55 AM

""Sad day when we are unable, unwilling or intimidated into not saying what we think anymore because of the labels that are thrown about willy-nilly.""

Including calling someone "Racist", or "Bigot" when they demonstrably are?

Or does your love of free speech stop short of that?

There's another label which would apply, though I'm sure you would be displeased if it were used.......Hypocrite!

Just making a point. While the words may be over used, they are definitely valid in many cases, but it seems that so-called believers in free speech want them banned.

Oxymoron anyone?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:49 AM

That is not like the Norfolk I know Eliza. "I'm not a racist but..." must be one of the most common lines I hear in pub conversations.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:33 AM

Jim, your experiences of racism over the years are truly shocking. And I admire you for not going along with any of it, when all around were being so offensive. Are you however saying that we as a nation haven't changed at all, and haven't learned to be more tolerant and kind? I've never been to Manchester, visited Liverpool only briefly and knew London well but only as a child, so I can't comment on racial attitudes there nowadays. But as a white woman with a black husband, I can say that people here in Norfolk have responded to him with amazing friendliness, completely genuine as far as I can judge. My (rather cynical) sister says it's over-compensation for fear of being labelled a racist. One can only speak as one finds, and Ibrahima is delighted with 'les anglais'. He was even invited to dance with Leicester Morris at the Potty Festival in Sheringham, and also with Red Leicester at the Straw Bear in Whittlesea in 2009. All the onlookers applauded and came up to hug him afterwards. I don't see this as patronising, just expressing delight that he joined in, wearing his African costume. Perhaps big cities are different. But I'm proud of Norfolk. For a rural area with little experience of black people and a reputation for being insular, they've exceeded all expectations and I love them for it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 05:20 AM

Sorry about the faults - apostrohes going haywire.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 05:18 AM

Will post my contribution to the Muslim prejudice thread here as I Beleve it has relevance to the previous posting.
Jim Carroll

Mike,
This is really getting nowhere, and I very much doubt if it ever shall.
Perhaps if I explain why feel this point worth pursuing
I have come to believe that there is a strong argument for describing English racism as 'cultural' to take a leaf from Keith's book.
I have spent all but 12 years of my life in three of the major cities of England: in order, Liverpool, Manchester and London. Each of them I found progressively racist, London being by far the worst. When I applied for my first job there (on the telephone), I was asked what colour I was. The racism escalated from there.
At school we sang hymns which declared that to be foreign was to be “in error’s chainâ€쳌; we were given half a day’s holiday (and a paper flag) on Empire Day; we were told, on the wireless, in the newspapers, even by our teachers, how the colonies were “not ready for self-ruleâ€쳌. All this would have been within five years of the Holocaust. Pat has just unearthed her old exercise book from Bluecoat School in Westminster in which she had been told to write during a lesson on logic, “All niggers have kinky hair, therefore all kinky haired people must be niggersâ€쳌.
I served my apprenticeship on the docks and, apart from the sneering and demeaning attitude toward the Lascars and Africans, and all the other ‘foreigners’ I met daily, I saw first-hand the segregated public lavatories; I remember distinctly signs carved over the doors saying “ASIATICSâ€쳌 and “MENâ€쳌.
When I moved to London, I quickly learned to keep my mouth shut when the subject of ‘nig-nogs’ or ‘Pakis’ or ‘wogs’ came up, and, to my shame, I never mentioned my Irish ancestry, especially during the 70s ad 80s. One of my customers proudly showed me his mirror-on-a-stick, with which he examined his car each morning because he “had Irish neighboursâ€쳌 who he’d “never met nor spoken to â€" the wife did once, but I soon put a stop to thatâ€쳌.
I think what offended me most was that whenever the subject of race came up people automatically assumed that I was as racist as they were; there was never any question that I might have thought differently on the subject.
Paki-bashing became a national sport at the time of the expulsion of the Asians from Uganda; it almost (but not quite) overtook queer-bashing. I did electrical work for a couple of Ugandan Asians and found them quiet, gentle and somewhat nervous of the welcome they had received.
I still get angry when I think of the Stephen Lawrence killing; an 18 year old youth stabbed to death by racist thugs â€" because he was black. One of the first acts of the police investigating the killing was to arrest Lawrence’s his companion â€" because he was black. The investigation was bungled and the killers went free â€" because the victim was black (the report on the investigation concluded that throughout, it was influenced by “institutional racismâ€쳌.   
The Singers Club and (some, but by no means all of) the folk clubs we visited, many of them frequented by people with Akenaton’s “indefencible liberal agendaâ€쳌, became small oases in a vast desert of racist shite.
Plenty more examples, personal, as well as reported, which could lead me to claim the existence of ‘a culture of English racism’.
I wonder what would happen if I were to suggest that, despite the tendency of the English to dislocate their shoulders patting themselves on the back and telling each other how fair and tolerant they are, they are not to be trusted when it comes to that subject of race. That's what is happening here in relation to Pakistani immigrants to Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 05:05 AM

It seems that anyone can be branded as a racist these days, for example by stereotyping people from different counties in UK in what could be taken in some circumstances the wrong way. Even if it is in a lighthearted way people seem to be nervous about doing so and would rather say nothing at all than have to deal with the trouble it could cause. I remember being called a 'carrot cruncher' 14-15 years ago by a so-called friend originally from the East End of London assuming that I lived right in the middle of a rural area just because of my south-west accent, nothing could have been further from the truth but I put up with the ribbing at the time as just banter. If a comment like that happened now and I felt that it was reasonably derogatory I could be within my rights to take it further. On the otherhand there are those who could in principle use the race card with loopholes like this to act as a diversion against police in an attempt to wriggle out of crimes that have or have not been committed.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 06:02 AM

I do remember 'Blackboard Jungle' Jim. And dealing in schools with violence and bullying IS indeed difficult. The way forward for any teacher is complex and not easily explained. First one must have a strong character and be utterly 'bombproof'. Those who have discipline problems often have weaknesses within themselves, which the children will discover in five minutes. Secondly, it is a grave mistake (and one often made by enthusiastic trainee teachers) to be too informal and chummy with ones charges. There must always be a dignified distance between teacher and pupil. Thirdly, one must be consistent and fair, mean what one says and carry through intentions. Fourthly, one must have a sense of humour and humanity, and show that the pupils are dear and cared about. And the most important in my view, and hard to define, one must give the impression that one is NO FOOL, is WISE and 'ON THE BALL'. This is a serious drift, I know, from the original thread, for which I apologise!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 03:30 AM

"I had no intention to offend you."
And it was certainly not my intention to offend you.
At present I am attempting to follow the unfolding saga of 'revelations' (being cynically used IMO by the present govenment and the right-wing press) by the schoolteacher exposing violence in the schools she has taught in, which makes 'Blackboard Jungle' (you're probably not old enough to remember that one) look like 'Sound of Music'.
Violence, bullying and discipline must be extremely difficult to deal with - I don't envy those whose responsibilty it is their job.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 03:42 PM

I have visited Kirkby a few times, Jim, and had a drink in the 'Molly' (Molyneux pub) and walked along the 'Scotty Road'. It's a tough area, I agree. I think where we are differing is in the bullying department. No-one sane would condone bullying. But lighthearted teasing is not the same. I taught in one of the most deprived areas of Glasgow and the social problems there would make ones hair stand on end. I have also taught in a well-heeled district of Edinburgh, and a rural school in Norfolk, so I suppose I have experience of several different types of catchment area. But the children were much the same in all of them. And if encouraged to whinge about being called a name, they'd have ended up spineless. I'm certain none were 'scarred for life, both physically and mentally'. Of course, violence and 'ganging up' were nipped in the bud pretty smartly. I'm sorry you find the term 'wimp' offensive, I had no intention to offend you.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 03:04 PM

"It's much better to teach a child to stand up for itself and to have a more robust character."
Sorry, can't agree at all - a perfect recipe for 'survival of the strongest' - or should I say 'most robust'.
Personally I find the term 'wimp' offensive and am more than a little surprised to read it described as harmless by a teacher.
I grew up on one of the roughest overspill housing estates in the Britain, Kirkby, outside Liverpool, and I experienced and witnessed some violent bullying, which, I have no doubt, scarred some children for life, both physically and mentally.
Violence goes nowhere but upward and I would not wish it on any child - but that's probably politically incorrect.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 02:32 PM

Jim, I'm sorry, but having had thousands of children under my care for decades, I still feel that making 'too much fuss' about playground taunts is a very bad idea. Even if one attempts to stop it, they go on doing it and always will. It's much better to teach a child to stand up for itself and to have a more robust character. We have always been a nation with a strong sense of humour, and if we can't laugh off such things as 'Fatty' etc we're utter wimps. The same goes for political correctness. I can't see why being called 'dear' for example at my age should upset me, why should it? Teachers and parents know the difference (or should) between light teasing and vicious, cruel bullying. I wonder if all this mamby pambying is behind the alarming modern tendency for everyone of all ages to burst into tears at the least opportunity? Kleenex must be making huge profits nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 12:59 PM

Eliza - it was not my intention to question your word in any way, but my point remains; I can see no rational whatever why any parent concerned about their childrens' upbringing would tolerate such crass values being passed on to their children, as displayed in your examples.
It has been the long-established practice of our tabloid press to present similar behaviour to the public, which, when examined, usually have been either invented or distorted out of all proportion, often for political ends.
While it is a danger to be ultra-sensitive about the use of language, it is equally a danger to ignre the fact that language is a powerful weapon in deameaning and undermining people, especially in the mouths of children.
I remember being appalled years ago while listening to the radio at work and hearing a then regular childrens' programme broadcast a story about 'Big Fat Rosie' who dived into a swimming pool and emptied it. I learned a few days later that a friend's daughter (with a slight weight problem) had come home from school distraught, having been presented with the BFR nickname and had refused to return.
I grew up in the 'Little Black Sambo' generation and personally, am thankful that those days are long gone - I hope!!
I have become a little tired of the term 'political correctness' being flung about as as an insult, as often as it is, but take some comfort in the thought that the the opposite is 'political incorrectness' and I would rather err on the safe side, especially where children are involved.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Feb 11 - 01:44 PM

Jim Carroll, I'm a bit confused. My examples were not 'urban legends' but actually happened. Our Local Authority contacted Heads of Schools and suggested the 'chalkboard' idea. They also questioned the recitation of 'Baa Baa Black Sheep'. (Barmy indeed) I assure you I have had many pupils over the years complain about name-calling related to their appearance. Children have name-called for centuries. I myself was called 'Skinny' (wish I was now, no chance of that!) As long as it was good-humoured and not vicious or spiteful, everyone learned to laugh along. I'm sure the parents were generally supportive of this policy. I did have the odd complaint, but I personally feel that one has to learn to be less sensitive and to cultivate a balanced sense of humour. As a very small child just after the War, I watched a black man get on our bus. I'd never seen one before and said in a very loud voice to my mother "Look! Look mummy! A chimney sweep!" My mother nearly died of shame, but the man laughed like a drain. Nowadays I suppose we'd have been in the Tower for racism. And I married a black man!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Feb 11 - 03:48 AM

Eliza - While I accept Backwoodsman's sentiments, I don't go along with the conclusions %100
It would be interesting to learn how many of your examples are sustainable and how many are urban legends.
Personally, I wouldn't want anybody whose mind ran on such tramlines within a mile of any children in my family, and I am puzzled as to why any parent would tolerate such barminess, let alone, have it imposed on them.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Feb 11 - 01:52 AM

Well said Eliza - that's the sensible, balanced view of, I'd guess, the vast majority of people in the UK. Unfortunately, it's usually the small, hysterically intransigent minority who shriek the loudest (viz. the 'Muslim Prejudice' thread) and, thus, manage to impose their illogical, dogmatic will on the less vociferous, more malleable, majority.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Brian May
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 03:21 PM

Perhaps common sense just isn't any more.

Sad day when we are unable, unwilling or intimidated into not saying what we think anymore because of the labels that are thrown about willy-nilly.

However, I would point out that I am unwilling to be cowed by that. It is quite refreshing to see all the different viewpoints represented by Mudcat posters.

When it doesn't descend into a slanging match, it's quite stimulating, because in a lot of cases, you can't even have these conversations 'outside'.

Best of luck to those of you of all persuasions, long may it continue.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:13 PM

Absolutely ridiculous to bring someone to book for asking for a black coffee. How preposterous! We were also told as teachers at one point NOT to say 'blackboard' but 'chalkboard'. We said a great deal to that, most of which was unprintable. It only makes people even more angry to try to control their every utterance and monitor their vocabulary. I feel that what offends is the deliberate and spiteful aim to hurt and insult. THAT is what should if possible be addressed. I have had a pupil come to me moaning that they were being called 'Ginger' by their mates. I asked what colour their hair was. 'Ginger, Miss'. 'Then what's your problem?' But if a child was being spitefully teased and/or bullied, I'd always intervene. The children knew the difference, and as adults, so should we.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Crowhugger
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 12:26 PM

Whether the remarks were "racist" or "ethnic slurs" seems to me beside the point: We always have the option to hurl insults that address someone's shortcomings as we see them, but instead often choose to offend the person's parentage. In such instances maybe the conversation _should_ stop to allow time for all involved to set aside their intemperance and decide how to express their thoughts about the true issues.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 11:55 AM

Jim ~~ Can't see what you are "sorry" about here. I don't disagree that racism is not the only overused concept; but that doesn't in itself make its overuse in any way acceptable or excuasble, does it?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 10:35 AM

Sorry Mike, can't see a lot to disagree with here.
People do over-use the term racism, which, as you say, devalues the coin, but terms like 'PC' and 'nanny state' are equally overused as screens to hide a multitude of sins.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 01:21 AM

Personally speaking, no matter how many accusations there have been to the contrary, I really Do NOT think that the Mudcat Forum, is as loaded with 'racists', nor 'bigots' as the 'open-minded challenged'(
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 12:51 AM

r in relation to Muslim Prejudice thread

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 04:16 PM

racism, as of today!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 11:51 AM

Thanks, Greg. Haven`t heard it used that way in Canada, yet.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 11:31 AM

OK. I`m lost. What`s with all this crap about outrage of late--on Mudcat.

The new teabagger right wing buzz-word, Bruce - kinda like "socialism"- used to denegrate, without any factual basis whatsoever, what they disagree with.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 11:29 AM

"Racism is what you claim when you want to shut down an argument or discussion."

With the exception, of course, of those all too numerous and too frequent cases where it demonstrably IS racism.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 09:21 AM

"on account of him being a drunken, hard as nails typical Scot".

You'll be in bother for that one, Steamin" Willie - you know what these drunken, hard as nails typical Scottish bastards are like ;-)

g

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 08:42 AM

Sounds like that lady is not making any allowances for your cultural background, disrespecting your language (idiolect) and imposing her values on you. All a bit imperialist really.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 08:25 AM

Hows about this for racism then?

If I were an Italian footballer, the last person in the stadium I would pick a fight with is Joe Jordan, on account of him being a drunken, hard as nails typical Scot.

I was at our London office the other day and in the canteen, I asked for a black coffee. The (white) lady behind the counter told me she was making a note of my name (ruddy name badges) and formally complaining I was being racist.

I could have done better I suppose. I could have made a comment that despite high unemployment, you still have problems employing people with a modicum of brain cells in London.

We await what happens now. As I am an advisor and not technically employed, I might just get my contract ended sooner than planned, but hopefully sense will prevail?

Errr... Not a bit of it. This is an arms length body into health and social care. Stuffed with Grolies, (Guardian readers of limited intelligence in ethnic skirts) and membership of LGT forums. In our case, being patronising to black and Asian colleagues during October. (I liked it when Lenny Henry pointed out that Black History month is October to commemorate the time of the first black family in Eastenders.)

I'm doomed........ Unless.. I can point out that these days, white middle aged males in the workplace are becoming an endangered species and in the interest of diversity, my disgusting term for a hot beverage is part of my culture that needs nurturing in case it dies out?

Thought not. Too busy apologising for being who and what I am. Ruddy Harriet Harperson and her legacy.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 12:40 PM

harmonic miner, I posted about a month ago, that 'religion and politics were the biggest frauds perpetrated on the human race to control masses of people'...and therefore, pretty much agree with you. Though, in the course of trying to get some sense into the 'politicos', I've tried to interject some 'good ol' fashion' common sense, by way of the truth, there are some on here, who are determined to politicize every false issue, disregarding the truth, and promote their nonsensical party's agenda..and/or cause.
I favor neither side, in this contrived chaos. and in doing so, certain falsehoods I've had to address..only to be attacked by those who hold on to baseless political rhetoric, as doctrine, rather than to side on the side of truth! This is happening all over the world, and is destructive to all those who engage into promoting those activities!!..not to mention the collateral damage that lies in its wake!
Rather than 'snap countering' with hateful rhetoric, it would be far more constructive, for those same individuals, to seek out the truth, impartially, and adjust accordingly! Why promote policies, either religious or political, when one does so, with no foundation of truth, about any given subject??
This is where my mind and heart is, and I'm sure others feel that way, because there is no reason to screw up everything, then ask in shock and disbelief later, "I supported what???..for why??..and who??? ..and now we got THIS??!!??..What was I thinking?? Why didn't anyone tell me??
Someone did.

Regards harmonic miner, and best wishes,

Guest from Sanity

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: harmonic miner
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 11:57 AM

One of the other internet fora I use has a 'no politics and no religion' rule.

I like that rule. I may have opinions on those topics but don't think this forum is the place to discuss them

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 11:53 AM

OK. I`m lost. What`s with all this crap about outrage of late--on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 09:56 PM

If Gattuso had tried that with Joe when Joe was at Leeds, he'd have found himself on the wrong end of a good hiding. In his younger days, Joe was a hard, hard man.

Any 33-year-old man who attacks a 60-year-old, whatever his so-called 'justification', is a gutless piece of shit. He should have got a Sine Die.

---

On topic, I'm in agreeemnt with DeG. No doubt some PC-dickhead will be along in a minute to tell me I'm a 'racist'. I don't give a toss.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 06:52 PM

"Functionally, it can be (conceivably) as dehumanizing."

And as an excuse it can be used to deflect on one's own behaviour. I think this one comes down to who is to be believed. The more level headed Jordan who played in and loves Italy and who's daughter still lives there and who didn't even really react to the violent assault - or the famously volatile Italian. There were plenty of people around the incident (or incidents as it was the second incident that's caused the furore) so if Jordan said what is claimed I'm sure there would be witnesses. I imagine it is the player looking for an excuse for what could be severe discipline. I didn't see the match but saw the aftermatch talking and the TV panel seemed to think that even taking the Jordan incident out of the equation Gattuso's behaviour during play was unacceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 06:11 PM

MarkS: "Racism is what you claim when you want to shut down an argument or discussion."

Mark, you are abso-fucking-lutely Correct!!!!
The other one is 'Bigot'.

Complete asinine jerks use those terms when they want to stop up their ears, and want to get others, emotionally involve to close their ears, and minds to the truth, fearing that others might learn something of TRUTH, and wake up, out of some political bullshit rhetoric, that is being pushed onto them, by far less learned activist pranksters!

It happens a lot, especially with the far left loons, who want to keep people stupid..or as stupid as themselves!!!!
Those people should be completely ignored, and you should take note of who they are!!!....politically stupid morons, who need more politically stupid morons, because their quasi-pseudo-'cause' is not based on truth, but rather a delusion...and they recruit their numbers, from people who hesitate to think!...but rather, get all emotionally charged...and emotional stupidity works for them!!

GOOD CALL, Mark!!!

I could list the names of those who employ this childish tactic, but I think you may know who the stupid, asinine morons are!!!
They are full of shit!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Skivee
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 05:16 PM

Wolfgang, I should have expected this kind of crap from a squinter like you! Lensers are always going on about how they're smarter, and the guys dig chicks that wear them, and on and on. I say "SMASH THE GLASSES AND THOSE THAT WEAR THEM!!!"
Oh, and the footballer was a prat.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 03:48 PM

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 03:31 PM

That's not only true of racists, Ake...it's also true of atheists, religious people, postmen, hatcheck girls, ushers, and chicken-sexers! They ALL have an abnormal brain function in a tiny area of the anterior lobe. So do most domesticated dogs! This does not stop any of them from mostly meeting their daily requirements and carrying out their alloted roles in a reasonably satisfactory manner.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 03:27 PM

I think that Gattuso is probably shitting himself. Not only has he head butted one of the hardest men of his day, he did it on camera for all to see. In a mad panic to cover up his stupidity he has resorted to the last resort and made something up about the provokation that he knows people tread on eggshells around. I doubt he thought it up himself. I suspect he has the same lawyers as Silvio Berlusconi:-)

He also well knows that after his 4 match ban (I would have made it a year) he will have to face the men playing for Jordan and some of his friends at some time in the future. I wouldn't like to be his legs...

But, coming back to the spirit of th ethread. Yes, it's what the bastards who cannot squirm out of things any other way resort to when faced with an argument they cannot win. At one time it was said that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. That refuge is now using the term racism in any situation.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 03:20 PM

I read that racists have abnormal brainfunction in a tiny area of the anterior lobe......perhaps there is a genetic answer to this problem......all will be well....sleep....sleep

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: MarkS
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 03:07 PM

Racism is what you claim when you want to shut down an argument or discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Racism' a catch-all accusation?
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Feb 11 - 02:59 PM

One cannot disagree with CarolC, regardless of her correctness.