Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 01 Jun 20 - 11:58 AM i agree, jim. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Jun 20 - 09:31 AM Tone, in the singular, doesn't mean too much to me We have access to a range of different tones and use them frequently in speech Unfortunately many singers do not apply to that in their singing, which indicates to me that they are not engaging emotionally with their song They 'tell' their songs in a monotone - if you did that with speech you would soon be labelled 'boring' - think E L WISTY or Alan Bennett - brilliant in their boredom, both of them Even with a song a tone has shades - get them right by feeling the song and the song can work - get them wrong and they can become boring It's even worse when you use the singer uses the same tone for every song - or all the other you're sharing the session with do - probably why long shanty sessions never work for me Exploring your voice so you can fully use it is, I believe, the answer to accessing the entire repertoire I don't believe "right" or "wrong" should come into any of this Dick - the singer decides that each time Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: r.padgett Date: 01 Jun 20 - 07:52 AM Yes Sandman I basically agree ~ using the voice to tell a story and using it with all that can be conveyed by expression, stops and light and dark and shouts to aid the delivery for the "audience" and keep interest Ray |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 01 Jun 20 - 05:27 AM There are five basic components of correct singing. Those are pitch, breathing, rhythm, diction and voice. Bert , has all those qualities, this is not anything to do with taste, his diction is good it is perfectly clear what he is singing about, his breathing is good his rhythm is good and his voice is clear. furthermore his interpreation of narrative ballads is such that he sings the story. I received this message from A MEMBER that he was a horrible singer but a good scholar, this person is in reality saying he is not to my taste., NOT the same thing at all However as part of a sensible criticism this sort of vacuous remark misses the point of the discussion. 1.singers can be good singers because they have the basic components of correct singing and perhaps not be to everybodys taste, however in BERTS CASE HE HAS MORE THAN THAT BECAUSE HE HAS THE ABILTY TO INTERPRET AS STORIES THE NARRATIVE BALLDS,that is not just an opinion it is a fact good singing is not just about taste, Roy Orbison was a good singer, but not al lof his songs were to my taste some were, some were not, that does not alter the fact he was a good singer DISCUSSING A SINGERS ABILTY IS NOT JUST ABOUT TASTE To make a remark that his tone is not to my taste is a sensible remark, but an opinion, his tone does not make him a bad singer, or a horrible singer, there are as I have remarked other components that determine good singing |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 31 May 20 - 03:09 PM Wish I'd been there Billy Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 31 May 20 - 03:02 PM and nor should it. Sometimes a performer has charisma which is best tasted live. I hope everybody has enjoyed this thread . I have been told off for starting 3 singing threads which i have not done, Dave the gnome started the Ewan thread. This has been a non acrimonious thread and i hope the clips have been enjoyable. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: GUEST,Billy Weeks Date: 31 May 20 - 02:18 PM I first heard A L Lloyd at a concert in CS House in the early fifties,singing with MacColl, Seamus Ennis and Jean Ritchie. Wonderful to hear them all in one place and at one time -- a first time in every way for me. I had heard very little native folksong and I was bewitched by Lloyd's voice and manner. He had a disarming way of stopping a song after the first line, saying 'Too high' and starting again. I find the present arguments interesting, but nothing will ever erase the memory of that evening. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 31 May 20 - 01:31 AM vic thankyou for the link |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 28 May 20 - 03:51 AM no i understand/understood that Ray.Iwas clarifying my own comment for the benefit of JimC |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: r.padgett Date: 28 May 20 - 02:30 AM Yes Bert's style clearly was a simple extension of his talking voice I which I would urge all who use source singers like Bert (who may or may not be deemed a traditional singer ~ that's a different argument I think) to do as Bert did sing in their own voice ~ and I repeat I have heard some singers sing like him, and pick up some of his intonation/style etc I did n't mean my earlier posting to be a criticism Dick! if anything a suggestion that singers sing in own voice and try not to try to imitate Bert Ray |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 27 May 20 - 09:32 AM I saw this when it was first broadcast, and had it on VHS for years. I had a very interesting exchange of letters with Barry Gavin. All lost now I'm afraid. I've often wondered why the first clip of Bert singing is one where he stopped because he was in an uncomfortable key? That aside this is well worth watching. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Brian Peters Date: 27 May 20 - 08:34 AM Thanks are due to Mr Sandman for linking some interesting clips. Whilst pursuing one of them I stumbled across this hour-long film - apologies if its been linked already: Bert - a portrait of A.L. Lloyd I must say that, the more I listen to Bert's singing on some of these previously unexplored recordings (I never heard him live), the more interesting I find his singing. The way he hits his high notes (which, like Phil Tanner, he clearly enjoys) is pretty thrilling at times. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 27 May 20 - 07:53 AM Jim, i was responding to r padgetts critism and pointing out the positves in my opinion of his singing., his interpretation of narrative ballads |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 May 20 - 06:02 AM "Emulate - Match of surpass by imitation " Imitation is a pefect way of exploring your own voice by trying to recreate the sounds of others - nothing wrong with that for practicing, but every singer should have their own voice and develop it Bert's tone was improved (hardened) when he used the smile - that's why he used it If you have a better way of producing and expanding your tone, of course you should use that, but if not, there is nothing wrong or "untraditional" about what Bert did - many singers have similar 'tricks' to produce sounds they find difficult Ideally, you do the work internally, muscle control, or narrowing the sound - that was the aim of Ewan's voice and relaxation exercises One 'external' invaluable trick for a singer is to drop your shoulders to lessen tension - Tension is one of the greatest problems for all singers - it causes a lack of pitch control and shortage of breath If it starts with a nervously clenched fist it ivevitably spreads uoo the arms and into the shoulders You are making far too much an issue of this Dick - it's a technique and has nothing to do with singing style or interpretation - another tool in the vocal tool-box Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 27 May 20 - 04:58 AM ther has been posts saying not good idea to emulate. Well his interpretation is good on narrative ballads, that is worth listening to.PERSONALY I WOULD NOT EMULATE THE SMILE and the tone, but that is taste his arrangements rarely interfere with the flow of the song, which i think is important in story ballads.he is concentrating on telling a story |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Steve Gardham Date: 26 May 20 - 04:06 PM Sorry, Dick! Got distracted. The topic will come up again elsewhere anyway. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 May 20 - 02:34 PM Don't really think we should as long as this doesn't go on too long Dick These topics tend to take on other aspects - if they didn't we'd sound like talking weighing machines Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 26 May 20 - 02:17 PM can we stick to his singing steve |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 May 20 - 11:12 AM "simply take Bert's words with a pinch of salt, " I think that what I've put up sows that would be unwise Steve You can't keep lobbing stones until one of them finds its mark Lat's face it - some people are making outrageous claimsof song otigins with litle knowledge of the oral tradition earlier than the beginning of the 20th century I think the phrase is "innocent until proven guilty - we've done away with the "not proven" verdict as unreliable Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 26 May 20 - 10:38 AM STeve would you agree berts adaptations and interpretation cam about through a deep absorption of the music, he was able to that because he had listened a lot |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Steve Gardham Date: 26 May 20 - 09:30 AM As I offered on the Ewan thread, a similar situation applies to both of them. I don't think either of them deliberately set out to fool anybody. The problem was their perceived dual identity of performer and scholar by large numbers of people who did not know or care either way. Bert adapted many songs and wrote many album notes and because at the time he had more knowledge than the other performers they accepted what he had to offer at face value. At that time there were very few who had the knowledge to challenge him anyway. By the time scholars came along who could challenge this Bert was gone anyway. Personally anyone doing serious research would either simply take Bert's words with a pinch of salt, or better still go out there and do the research yourself. Once again, from an aesthetic and performer's point of view Bert's adaptations were magnificent! I've probably sung many of them, and probably still do. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 26 May 20 - 06:55 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6EyoZxJKhk Bert and alf edwards, broomfield hill now ewans version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPaQDjmEwQ0 |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 May 20 - 04:04 AM No he didn't and, given the evidence (or lack of it), it certainly isn't reasonable to assume anything of the kind - do uoi have anything concrete to substantiate your claim There's an old saying back home: it applies to both Ewan and Bert "Those who can, do; those who can't spend their time trying to pull down those who can" Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: GUEST,Pseudonymous Date: 26 May 20 - 03:41 AM I feel it is reasonable to assert that Lloyd deliberately passed things off as 'folk' when he had tinkered with them. The question whether or not you call this being a 'charlatan' seems likely to descend into semantics pretty quickly. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 26 May 20 - 03:18 AM "certainly the two magicians is imo a case in point" That was one of Bert's masterpieces People accuse him of inventing songs but in fact he appeared to be taking existing songs and adapting them, as Ewan did in the early days I've been working on Canadian and American collections looking for Irish Child ballads and I keep stumbling across one of Bert's songs - he was raiding 'Fowke' and Helen Hartness Flanders looking for good songs - and finding them A couple of examples of Bert's are "The Mower," and "The Weaver" - both from the Edith Fowke collection And this song from Toronto, which Bert adapted and introduced to the English folk scene as 'Jigging for Oil" I arrived in Calgary October the tenth And a week in that city on pleasure I spent— A week in that city prospecting the soil In search of a spot to go boring for oil. One bright sunny day as I strolled down the street A pretty fair damsel I happened to meet. Said I to this damsel: "Your family I'll foil If you'll show me a spot to go boring for oil." Oh, the damsel looked up and she says: "I declare Oh, I know of a spot and I've watched it with care, And no one has seen it since I was a child, And if you go there I am sure you'll strike oil." So I fondly embraced her on the very top floor. I hugged and I kissed her a thousand times o'er, And I lifted her garments for fear they might soil; Then she showed me that spot to go boring for oil. Well, I scarcely had bored in six inches or more When the oil from her well so freely did pour, And she looked up at me and she said with a smile: "Come down on your auger—I'm sure you've struck oil." Or this gem introduced to the scene by Bert, taken from the singing of O J Abbott, who learned it from an Irish labourer The Weaver As I went out very late one night The stars were shining and all things bright I spied a maid by the light of the moon And under her apron she was working at her loom (chorus) To me right whack fol the diddle di do day To me right whack fol the diddle di do day I spied a maid by the light of the moon And under her apron she was working at her loom She says,"Young man, what trade do you bear," Says I, "I'm a weaaver I do declare." "If you're a weaver then,"said she "Would you like to come and work upon me loom for me." "Oh no dear maid that may not he Last night I wove for two or three Two or three young girls so bright And They' d like to have kept me at it all the night" "There was Nancy Fairclough of this town I wove for her the Rose And Crown And for Elvira fairer still I wove her the pattern called the diamond twill" "Oh a very fine pattern is the diamond twill And the Rose And Crown is finer still But here's five pound I will lay down If you'll weave me something "better than the Rose And Crown" I set this young girl in the grass And I braced her loom-both tight and fast My shuttle in her web I flung And, oh good god how her loom was sprung The heels of her loom they being well greased This girl she begun for to hug and squeeze And there and then by the light of the moon I wove her the patterns called The Bride And Groom "Well, that's fine weaving then," said she "Pray won't you weave another piece for me" So as me shuttle went to and fro I wove another pattern called the Touch and Go Me shuttle to her loom I bent And I wove her along to a lively end And as a finish to the joke I topped off the pattern with a double stroke I've know Bert to be accused of "inventing" all these songs at one time or another, when all he was guilty of was not being clear about where he got them He introduced them as 'British' songs when I heard them - that is exactly what they were - all taken to Canada from Britain in the 19th century - I see nothing wrong or dishonest about that I discovered a few weeks ago that Bert's 'Two Magicians' was taken to New England from Ireland just after The Famine and sung to a collector by an Irish woman working as a maid, Mrs Fred Morse, originally from Waterford People really need to think twice before they accuse Bert of charlatanism Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 26 May 20 - 02:57 AM BERTS singing and alf edwards playing was one of my first exposures to the uk folk revival, my parents wanted to support him[ they were in the CP earlymid fities] so they bought his lps, He was quite different from my parents other availasble folk records, kathleen ferrier, but i am glad his music was there. i though the concertina was different too, it was so totally different to kathleen ferrier |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 26 May 20 - 02:27 AM Nick ,Thankyou I was not aware of this. i do remember seeing him and he kept rubbing the arms of his chair up and down whilst singing and moving his posterior from side to side, extraordinary. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: GUEST,Nick Dow Date: 25 May 20 - 06:56 PM Blimey! Shows how much I know. I genuinely thought the grin was because he was enjoying himself! I mean it, I'm not being sarcastic. Vic Gammon suggested that Bert's style was influenced by his Old and New Tradition theory, uncertain melody as the death throws of rural song. Look it up in Folk Song in England if you haven't already. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 25 May 20 - 01:05 PM certainly the two magicians is imo a case in point |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Date: 25 May 20 - 09:33 AM I saw Bert a lot in the early/mid 70s when I was in London. He had a unique voice, but one I did like. I put him in the category with Bob Dylan - probably not a voice you'd want to copy, but could put in a compelling performance of a song. Mick |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 20 - 09:28 AM Interesting to see how that song managed to cross the Irish Sea Dick BOLD DROVER THE TROOPER Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 25 May 20 - 08:50 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WuFRGzzW_w bert lloyd. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 25 May 20 - 08:49 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WuFRGzzW_w |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 25 May 20 - 08:46 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsxG06FMA-Y harry cox bert lloyd a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WuFRGzzW_w">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WuFRGzzW_w other than it is two unaccompanied singers, i cannot hear much influence |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Vic Smith Date: 25 May 20 - 08:44 AM Brian - To my surprise and delight, I found that there is a recording of Bert telling that story on Youtube. Here is the link - The Kush Maker |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 25 May 20 - 08:37 AM i lstened to berts recording but phil tanners is not available in my location perhaps you could make a link Brian and post THE TWO OF THEM,thanks |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 20 - 08:22 AM I think that's true Brian and other examples are available Unless I have mistaken Dicks comment, he was referring to the function of Bert's 'grin' which was a technique to change the tone of the voice Everybody has a built repertoire of tones but different environments emphasize some above others Someone working in, say an office, will tend to use softer tones so as not to 'stand out in a crowd' Steelworkers (MacColl's favourite example) need to belt everything out over the constant noise - that's the voice he takes home and to the pub (he described the Sunderland club venue, the noisiest pub he'd ever been in) all the singers tended to belt out their songs. Controlling and extending tones was a feature of all Critics Group work I found it very easy to strain my voice when I tried to sing songs requiring a hard tone because, as a domestic electrician, I used lighter tones 8 hours a day at work I suspect that, had I continued to wok on the Docks, where I served my apprenticeship, my problem would have been reversed These are extremes - we worked in subtleties in the C.G. Sorry to bang on - it gets easier when you get to used to this way of work - and very easy - almost instinctive Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Brian Peters Date: 25 May 20 - 07:52 AM If you listen to Bert singing 'Henry Martin' (it's on Youtube) you can hear him sing an exact copy of one of Phil Tanner's mos distinctive ornaments on the word 'Hello' (verse 4), and the performance overall is reminiscent of Tanner even though it's actually a different variant. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 20 - 07:27 AM "i do not think he sounds like harry cox or phil tanner" Who doesn't Dick and why should anybody ? Do you think Phil Tanner sounds like Harry Cox or either o them sound like Walter Pardon or Bob Copper ? Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 25 May 20 - 06:22 AM intersting because i do not think he sounds like harry cox or philtanner |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Brian Peters Date: 25 May 20 - 06:15 AM Good thinking, Jim. Vic's liner notes. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 20 - 06:13 AM Did indeed - lovely I quite liked, 'The Sleeve Job' which appeared as an Orson Wells classic 'The Lady From Shanghai' (not a lot of people know that') Also 'The Carrot over the cream' and 'The magic whistle' I might have some recordings of Bert telling stories; if anybody's interested I'll dig them out Ewan was a superb storyteller too - though most o them were never recorded The 'Chairlie Plenderlieth' sories were his best These people were talented entertainers when they set their minds to it Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Brian Peters Date: 25 May 20 - 06:11 AM No, Vic, I didn't. Actually I was referring to his storytelling within a song, but I'd be happy to hear about the kushmaker if you've time! |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Vic Smith Date: 25 May 20 - 05:59 AM Brian Peters:- Yes, a terrific storyteller, Did you ever hear him tell the one about the kushmaker on a whaling ship? |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 20 - 05:55 AM Vic's articles on Bert are superb - if they're not available on line I can let anybody interested have what I have Bert's skillful knack of weaving a song introduction in with his storytelling often made for superb evenings and more than made up for his singing limitations I was left with the impression that Bert didn't like Ballads once at a lecture on the subject he gave at Keele - I felt he 'talked their importance down' too much I still have the recording somewhere A magnificently memorable point in the talk was when Fred Jordan, who was there to sing an example, fell asleep in the chair and was sharply spotlit by a shaft of sunlight coming through the domed roof - a celestial nudge from above perhaps ! The photograph, by Brian Shuel appeared in the following 'Dance and Song' Good memories Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Brian Peters Date: 25 May 20 - 05:29 AM Yes, a terrific storyteller, if an idiosyncratic singer. I once sat up through the wee hours chatting and imbibing with the editor of a leading folk music publication, while 'An Evening With A. L. Lloyd was playing in the background. When he began 'Tamlyn' the conversation stopped, and not another word was uttered until the end of the ballad. We looked at one another and said "How the f*** did he do that??" Utterly transfixing. In the (very extensive and interesting) liner notes to the double CD 'Bramble Briars and Beams of the Sun' on Fellside, Vic Gammon discusses Bert's singing style, suggesting that his two main tradiional influences were Phil Tanner and Harry Cox. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 25 May 20 - 04:08 AM "I have not noticed any uk traditional singers singning with a smile to attain that tone" Can'r disgree with that Dick, but we are not traditional singers and our role is a very different one Your average source singers had repertoires limited to what was locally available to them - it seldom, if ever ranged through children's songs, shanties and wok songs, ritual songs, lyrical pieces - through to the stark, demanding big ballads We revival singers have all of these at our disposal and many of us choose to handle as many of them as we can In order to do that it is necessary to develop techniques the source singers didn't need - that, largely, was what The Critics Group was about Bert's grin was a fore-runner of that (Bert was a revival singer and scholar) - Ewan, in order to help the Critics and other groups, devised a whole programme of techniques to assist tone (thet's what the grin was about), relaxation, breath control, exploration, understanding and full use of the voice.... and other necessities of improving yourself as a singer That is what I have been trying to share and add to for years - "still willin'" as Barcus said Thaks for your kind words Dave; I'd like to take up your points later, when I've woken up and dressed Stay safe folks - we seem to be getting there at last, despite the efforts of Boris and Cummings :-) Jim |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Dave Sutherland Date: 24 May 20 - 04:07 PM Pleased that Jim is back as I am curious regarding the phrase “Limited in what he could handle” Obviously Jim knew Bert far better than I did but in my case as a naïve teenager in 1965/66 the selection of traditional folk recordings available in the North East was sparing in the extreme; however there were a handful of recordings by Ewan MacColl and A.L.Lloyd. MacColl’s singing I was marginally familiar with but I was yet to discover that of Mr Lloyd; listening to as many of these albums that I could “Bold Sportsmen All”, “Blow the Man Down”, “The Iron Muse”, “Gamblers and Sporting Blades” and “Outback Ballads” rather than consider him limited I was utterly astounded at the wide range of material he was performing. Lyrical songs and ballads, Australian songs, Shanties, Industrial Ballads and bawdy pieces. I was at first surprised by his vocal style but soon became used to it and in turn to admire its range and flexibility. I heard later on that he wasn’t particularly comfortable with the “big ballads” although once, at Newcastle Festival, I asked him if he still sang “Poor Cotton Weaver” which he had recorded on The Iron Muse but he said not as it was very long; however on the same night he performed his version of Tam Lin which isn’t exactly a throwaway ditty! I do agree with his storytelling skill and always thought it a great shame that he had passed away before the popularity of storytelling surged on the folk scene in the early nineties. |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: The Sandman Date: 24 May 20 - 04:00 AM Point taken ,however I have not noticed any uk traditional singers singning with a smile to attain that tone |
Subject: RE: discussion of A.L.Lloyd's singing From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 May 20 - 01:28 PM "an unnatural way" On the contrary Dick We all have a wide ranges of tones - we use most of them in speech but very few in singing, for various reasons Bert's 'grin' was a lazy-man's method of producing an unused tone away from his habitual speaking tone in order to sing songs requiring a different effect - there's nothing unnatural about it Some traditions use other methods - physical intervention, by pressure on the throat or holding the head in a different position The most extreme form of intervention was used by the 'Castrati' until it became illegal - cutting a young lads balls off I; happy to go into this deeper but not now Jim |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |