Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman

Subject: Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman
From: nutty
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 01:44 PM

I have been reading The Singing Englishman and am intrigued by some songs he quotes in the chapter on 'What Happened to the Work Songs'.

I'm intrigued because I haven't come across them before and I wonder if anyone out there has tunes for them or can direct me as to where I can find them.

1) The Careful Carter
Oh I am a young man a-driving me team
It's all my delight is in keeping them clean

Ths is the only song that Lloyd gives a title all the rest are simply lyrics

2)
What do you think of our ploughmen now
With their high-cutting ploughs and all

3)
There's some that sing of the hiring fair
And sound out an alarm

4)
My love's a ploughboy and follows the plough
I promised him it and I'll keep it true

5)
The young man and the miller's lass they set out on the hill
Hey, with a gay and a grinding, O

6)
She pressed herself against the wall
Line, twine, the willow and the dee

Subject: RE: Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:37 PM

nutty -

The 1st I presume is The Carter - I'm sure you've heard Dave and Anni sing this!. There's a version in the DT: The Carter, and at least one thread on it: Origins: The Carter, where Malcolm has some notes on the tune used (I've got the tune from Palmer if you want that).

Haven't time to look for the others just now (dinner calls!), the first just caught my eye.

Hope you're well.

Mick

Subject: RE: Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM

It may be helpful to note that the full texts printed by Lloyd can be seen in the online transcription of The Singing Englishman at Musical Traditions:

http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/tse4.htm

Comments on two more for now.

(4) Roud 3447, 'The Plooman Laddie'. All examples listed are Scottish, and I suspect that Lloyd's 'version' is a cut-down, anglicized re-write of the text printed in Ord. If that's the case, then the tune would be 'The Rigs o' Rye' (also in Ord, p 31).

(6) Although this is a 'Cruel Mother' text, the only example listed in Roud that begins with that line is Marina Russell's; she only had two verses and didn't use that refrain, which, though not especially uncommon, isn't usually (I suspect never, except here) found with this song. Lloyd may have 'collected' it, but he may equally well have cobbled it together himself from various sources. No clue as to the 'right' tune, then, though Mrs Russell's (Bronson, I, 281, and Journal of the Folk-Song Society, III (11) 1907, 70) could be made to fit.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 03:32 PM

Here's the starting page for the online Singing Englishman at Musical Traditions (menu for the sections at the top).

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman
From: nutty
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 06:15 PM

Unfortunately it isn't complete. I haven't checked all the text but there are two whole pages missing from the 'What Happened to the Work Songs' section

Subject: RE: Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 Sep 08 - 10:27 PM

So there are; pages 58 and 59 to be precise, which ought to appear between 'It's like a raging storm' and 'Stock raising is another thing'. We'd better let Rod know; presumably nobody has mentioned it to him yet, though the book has been there for a couple of years now.

Still, the extra lyrics that may help people to answer your questions are there; bar the final two verses of 'There's some that sing of the hiring fair', which are:

On cabbage cold and taters
They'll feed you like the pigs,
While they sit at their tea and toast,
And ride about in gigs.
The mistress must get "Ma'am" and you
Must lift your cap to her;
And before you find an entrance
The master must get "Sir."

The harvest time when it come round
They'll grudge you sabbath rest.
They'll let you go to worship,
But they like the working best.
The dinner hour it vexes them
And then to us they'll say,
"Come on, my lads, you'll get your rest,
When lying in the clay."

Subject: RE: Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman
From: Saro
Date: 08 Sep 08 - 12:15 PM

The song about the Hiring Fair is sometimes known as The Term Time. Don Morgan wrote a tune for it, and you might be able to get hold of this via someone from lews Folk Club.   
Saro

Subject: RE: Tune Req: AL Lloyd - The Singing Englishman
From: nutty
Date: 10 Sep 08 - 04:33 AM

Thanks Sarah.

I'm sending this round again just in case anyone else can help.