BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 02:38 PM

Iains - "Off into the wasteland with them! A binary choice and kama sutra compo puts on his Janus mask and recites the labour suicide manifesto.
What a star! You really could not make it up."

Well somebody made that up..
clearly someone with pretentious poor writing skills made that up...

You..???

The election is over, you won..
Whoever your handlers are, whoever set you in motion,
they can switch you off now...
Unless you have been left on auto,
programmed to shift into bad winner mode..
until your batteries run down...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 02:01 PM

Iains - let's guess from the tone of forced hyperbole.. guido...???

Crikey.. do we have to wait all that time until early 2020..

We'll everyone of us be senile by then...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 01:40 PM

"Mr Corbyn faces calls to quit immediately after he lost 59 MPs and Boris Johnson won the Tories its biggest majority for a generation - but he has instead vowed to cling on into 2020. Labour is already engulfed in a brutal civil war today as moderates warned of another '20 years of Tory rule' unless Mr Corbyn and his supporters were removed from positions of power. But the Labour leader said today he would remain leader until a contest to replace him likely is held in the 'early part of next year' - meaning his departure could still be months away. In his first interview since defeat, Mr Corbyn has denied he was to blame for the devastating defeat and said: 'This election was ultimately taken over by Brexit and we as a party represent people who voted both Remain and Leave'

The loopy leftards at their best! Off into the wasteland with them! A binary choice and kama sutra compo puts on his Janus mask and recites the labour suicide manifesto.
What a star! You really could not make it up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 01:20 PM

I think I'll just leave this here. High time our electoral system was modernised, from the antiquated FPTP system we currently have, to the kind of PR system being used in other, more enlightened, countries.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 12:31 PM

Tribalism was mentioned earlier. Lovely take on that by Jez Lowe

This is not my tribe dual

Bit of relief from all the sabre rattling :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:58 AM

Iains - just be careful your celebrating don't land you in A&E...
not the most cheerful of places to be kept hours waiting to see a Dr
at this time of year...

hah.. just imagined the various bizarre self inflicted injuries tories are noted for...
a whole queue of em lining up in casualty
with various strange objects lodged in their throats and bumholes...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:52 AM

Iains - while you are blinded by your own bile.. remember it's Fri 13th..

BILE = anger, bitterness, or irritability.

Sounds more like you leftie boys to me, I'm too busy celebrating.
Was it not one of your little charmers suggesting leaving faeces on school desks(From: Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 12 Dec 19 - 04:11 AM
Seen on Facebook earlier.
If your polling station is in a school and you vote Tory, you may as well shit on a child's desk on the way out :-) )
The behaviour of two year olds or lefties taking a well deserveed drubbing.


ps it was friday the 13th for commie compo. God moves in not so mysterious ways!   Luvvin it!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:40 AM

Sorry, DtG!

But I expect I can live with that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:35 AM

It does not take paranoia, Nigel. Just thinking about what the Government would want to do about the examples I gave.

As I said and repeat yet again, the government may not do anything untoward about these. But it has the opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:29 AM

Finally, of course, I did not tell Joe what to think. I quoted a section of the manifesto and asked him to decide how an actual fascist leader would regard it.
That is what your opening comment to Joe said, but you then did a summary: A remit to alter all the checks and balances in favour of the Government? That is not what I would call centrist.

As I explained, it is not a remit to alter all checks and balances in favour of the Government, but I can see how a paranoid might read it that way.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:21 AM

Ooooh. My last post was number 666. How beastly :-)

DMcG. You made a few errors in that last post of yours. Expect to be Nigeled at any moment!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:14 AM

John, you know the drill! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:13 AM

Now Nigel, read carefully what I said. I said a fascist would love that remit. I have said here and elsewhere that that clause could mean anything between nothing at all and near enough the Enabling Act. we do not know where on the spectrum that will end up. But we do know that in the last few months the Government has complained that

- Parliament is blocking the Government
- The supreme court is blocking them and may need political involvement on appointments
- Cases brought by Gina Miller should have been declared outside the scope of the court.
- They argued the same in the Scottish courts
- They 'reminded' the BBC of an upcoming licence review and speculated the licence model might be dropped
- They threatened C4 in a same way


Every time, the Government objected to anyone else having any sort of authority over it, or even, in the case of C4 showing them in a bid light. So given all that, I doubt if 'rebalancing' powers can mean anything other than strengthening the Government.

Finally, of course, I did not tell Joe what to think. I quoted a section of the manifesto and asked him to decide how an actual fascist leader would regard it.

Like others, I am not claiming the current Government is fascist. But I am claiming this section of the manifesto creates an opening.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:13 AM

Iains - while you are blinded by your own bile.. remember it's Fri 13th..

Take the blinkers off and carefully look out for ladders and banana skins...

I predict a lot of pumped up fools will accidently expire prematurly from over-celebrating this weekend...

Sensible folks best stay out of pubs and off the roads after closing time,
until the triumphalist bully euphoria subsides...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 11:05 AM

Al - If the next general election is 5 years from now,
thankfully a lot of our current old sour complainers on the left and the right
will be too dead to make life a misery for everyone else...

I'll be 65 if I outlive the family curse [no male relatives ever make it to 70..]..

Perhaps I might by then have earned sufficient bitterness
become a miserable old bastard,
going on and on about the old days when blah blah blah drone drone drone...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:58 AM

”pop quiz - 10 bonus points to anyone who knows the big academic word for this process...]”

Errrrrrmm....Self-nemetic?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:53 AM

Corbyn wanted 16 year olds to have the vote. Mainly because they couldn't remember how bloody awful nationalised industries were.

Wonder how youngsters have would felt if they couldn't go into a store and buy the phones they so love.

there was a six month waiting time for a phone. No one was allowed to buy an answer machine. There was a year waiting list and you had to rent it from the government.

There was a time when you had to get cookers from the gas show room and the electricity show room.

You can say - well it wouldn't be like that nowadays - but it would be something - if it wasn't phones or washing machines. Bloody little Hitlers telling you what you could do and what you couldn't. One of the buggers threatened me with prison when I bought an answer machine from Tandys.

the corbynistas are all saying it was all about Brexit. But if that was the case why did Dennis Skinner lose his seat?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:43 AM

Whinge whinge. whinge!

No second referendum now boyos.

How's the reality sandwich going down? more lemon perhaps?

Truly a popcorn moment! Even the pound is celebrating, rising above 1.2 to the euro for the first time in a coon's age.

We will take back control-get used to the idea. No point in even pretending to take the lefties seriously!

Any toys left in the pram?

A little toon to chee4 you up. Start substututing around 3 minutes in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy9GmieAEaQ
Jo Swinson    No more
Nigel Dodds    no more
Zac Goldsmith no more
David Gauke (Ind) no more
Dennis Skinner no more
Anne Main (Con) etc.
Dominic Grieve
Stephen Gethins
Laura Pidcock:
Mary Creaghy.
Caroline Flint
Jo Platt (Lab)
Anna Turley (Lab)
Helen Goodman (Lab)
Susan Ellan Jones (Lab)
Emma Reynolds (Lab)
Vernon Coaker (Lab)
Gordon Marsden (Lab)
Paul Williams (Lab)
David Hanson (Lab)
Phil Wilson (Lab)
Richard Burden (Lab)
Jenny Chapman (Lab)
Lisa Forbes (Lab) –
Emma Dent Coad (Lab)
Nic Dakin (Lab)
Laura Smith (Lab)
Ruth Smeeth (Lab)
Gareth Snell (Lab)
Paula Sherriff (Lab)
Tom Brake (LD) –
Sue Hayman (Lab)
Sarah Wollaston (LD)
Anna Soubry (TIG).

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:42 AM

Nigel - ideological 'fascism' is more a pernicious pervasive state of mind
effectively controlling the masses, than any words printed in statutes...

ie.. the north, midlands, and Welsh working class have now been persuaded
to actively choose to collude in their own domination...

[pop quiz - 10 bonus points to anyone who knows the big academic word for this process...]

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:30 AM

Joe: Don't accept DMcG's comments at face value:
well, Joe, here is one section of the Conservative Manifesto. I leave it to you to decide whether a fascist would like to have got a mandate for this:

"After Brexit we also need to look at the broader aspects of our constitution: the relationship between the Government, Parliament and the courts; the functioning of the Royal Prerogative; the role of the House of Lords; and access to justice for ordinary people. The ability of our security services to defend us against terrorism and organised crime is critical. We will update the Human Rights Act and administrative law to ensure that there is a proper balance between the rights of individuals, our vital national security and effective government. We will ensure that judicial review is available to protect the rights of the individuals against an overbearing state, while ensuring that it is not abused to conduct politics by another means or to create needless delays."

A remit to alter all the checks and balances in favour of the Government? That is not what I would call centrist.

The section he quotes only talks of reviewing the various relationships, NOT altering them in favour of the Government. In fact the only section which mentions what action may need to be taken is: We will ensure that judicial review is available to protect the rights of the individuals against an overbearing state
That is exactly the opposite of what DMcG is claiming.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:26 AM

My condolences. -A Mrrican

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:09 AM

Please note my post was in reply to Stanron!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:09 AM

Once again Stanton is putting it from the perspective of the right. Far right factions within the Conservative party, such as the ERG, and outside influences such as UKIP (now the Brexit party) have pushed politics so far to the right that what was once a moderate left is now portrayed as Communism. I would agree though that the current administration are not fascist. It is my hope that the influx of, hopefully, centrist Tories will pull them back to just right of centre. I would also agree that Momentum has had a detrimental effect on the Labour party but not in the way he describes. The parliamentary Labour party are no further left than many mainstream political parties in Europe. Momentum, which is not the PLP, are further left and have created rifts in the party that allowed the Tories to take advantage of the in-fighting within Labour. The lesson the Labour party need to take from his is to get back together to fight the Tories instead of fighting each other!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 10:04 AM

Au contaire.

The right wing of British politics has come to the fore in the past few years. The "success" of the likes of Farage and the ERG has mirrored the rise of far right groups across Europe.

Whilst the Labour party has always had a minority of far left wingers they are nothing like as powerful as far right wing groups in the Conservative party.

Stanron is quite correct though when he suggests that all politics in the US is quite a distance to the right of what we consider to be "centrist"

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 09:57 AM

well, Joe, here is one section of the Conservative Manifesto. I leave it to you to decide whether a fascist would like to have got a mandate for this:

After Brexit we also need to look
at the broader aspects of our
constitution: the relationship between
the Government, Parliament and the
courts; the functioning of the Royal
Prerogative; the role of the House
of Lords; and access to justice for
ordinary people. The ability of our
security services to defend us against
terrorism and organised crime is
critical. We will update the Human
Rights Act and administrative law to
ensure that there is a proper balance
between the rights of individuals, our
vital national security and effective
government. We will ensure that
judicial review is available to protect
the rights of the individuals against an
overbearing state, while ensuring that
it is not abused to conduct politics by
another means or to create needless
delays.

=====

A remit to alter all the checks and balances in favour of the Government? That is not what I would call centrist.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 09:56 AM

Stan - conversly, UK right wing extremists are also seen to grab the 'centre' even further right...

Sensible moderates find themselves caught in a no-man's land minefield...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Stanron
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 09:38 AM

Joe Offer wrote: has fascism triumphed in the UK?

No but the suggestion is not exactly a surprise. I think it could be a mistake to equate the Labour party in the UK with the Democrat party in the US but here goes anyway. Ten years ago perhaps the Labour : Conservative divide was closer to the Democrat : Republican position we see today. On general principles I think that the UK has always been much further to the left than the USA. The evidence is in our Health Service, our National Insurance scheme and the general level of benefits.

Over the last ten years the Labour party has moved further to the left than it has ever been before. A sub group called Momentum has gradually taken over local party groups and now controls the whole party including the leadership. It is the Momentum line that Tony Blair was a 'Tory' and the MPs who supported him were traitors.

As Labour moves to the left there is a space in the center into which the Tory party has drifted without even trying. My point is that Labour has moved so far to the left that the center is described by them as the far right. You must have seen on this forum how easy it is to be called a Fascist if you disagree with the hard left.

It's not Fascism, it's Centrism.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 09:22 AM

You know, PFR, I was just thinking that there is something worse than a bad loser. A bad winner!

Bonzo, read my post of 02:48 AM. Nothing to calm down from and, as far as I can see, no other "lefty boys" need calming down either. I think you need to direct your advice to your "righty" stable mate.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 09:06 AM

Bonz - can't get any calmer than weary resignation in the face of unbeatable unfair odds..

At least your Boris [who we know you dislike] is as not a bad winner
as the likes of Iains in all his gloating triumphalist nastiness..

Decent tories must be ashamed of all the rotters, bullies, and arseholes in your party...???


But.. on the other hand at least Jo Swinson will never be PM...!!!

Even Boris the bounder is a more tolerable personality for the job...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 09:05 AM

Hi

I thought I had been having a lovely dream,,,

Corbyn , Jo,swinson and Anna Soubry   all gone .......


ooooh, and to cap it .....man United won 4-0

Oh wake me up PLEASE

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 08:29 AM

Calm down lefty boys!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 07:56 AM

This bodes well for The Current Occupant who is probably taking credit for it as we fume.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 07:55 AM

Yeah... the result is even worse than expected..

Happy Friday the 13th..

The North has confirmed the efficacy of intensive international far right internet propaganda..

A fair fight is impossible against tory dirty fighting tricks...

Turkeys will vote for xmas...!!!

But the one glimmer of consolation and hilarity is Jo Swinson got what she deserves...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 06:32 AM

I keep tellin ya that the candidate that saturates emotions (good or bad) will influence minds more than the deliberate, calm and reasonable candidate. -in the short run-

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:59 AM

Indeed, Jim. I can see there no longer being a UK at the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:57 AM

Post again in 12 months Nigel. I hope you are right and that I will be proved wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:37 AM

Today 3.8% of the working population have no job. A total of 1,218,000.
I wonder just what this figure will be in 12 months. Watch this space.

On the basis that the rate has been falling almost continually since the Conservatives came to power in 2009 (although there was an initial increase continuing the previous upward trend) then I would expect it to remain low, or fall.


Graph here

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:25 AM

Just to remind some folk, the SNP won in Scotland. The Tories lost half their seats, Labour lost all but one and the Lib Dem leader lost her seat.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:21 AM

I have just thought of a Johnson-esque catch phrase. Remember long car journeys either with or as kids? Are we nearly there yet? How about every time we are confronted by a crowing Tory we ask "have we got brexit done yet?" . I'm sure it can keep us going for a few years yet!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 05:10 AM

Today 3.8% of the working population have no job. A total of 1,218,000.

I wonder just what this figure will be in 12 months. Watch this space.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployed-persons

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 03:42 AM

Looks like momentum took the labour bus straight into a brick wall. There were few survivors!

Magic grandad's election manifesto compared favourably with that of foot
He fought the 1983 general election on a hard-left manifesto famously dubbed “the longest suicide note in history” and saw his party’s worst result since the first world war.

After his resignation, it took Labour 14 years to deal with the far left and rebuild itself until it was capable of challenging the Conservative Party.

Given the similarities between the two leaders and Labour being set for an even worse defeat than Mr Foot, Mr Corbyn might have just laid the foundations for 14 years or more of uninterrupted Tory government.

Whoopy Doo.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 03:21 AM

Like I said a few times before, politics has become a reality TV show. I despair at my fellow man at times but I know they are not bad or stupid. Not sure how we can get things back on track though. Maybe 5 years of Johnson on come strictly will cure the malaise?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 03:13 AM

Centrist former MPs who abandoned the two main parties over what they said were their swings to extremes have all failed to be re-elected to parliament.

The four who stood for the Independent Group for Change – the former Conservative MP Anna Soubry, and the former Labour MPs Gavin Shuker, Chris Leslie and Mike Gapes – all lost their seats to candidates in their former parties on Thursday night.

Amid a sweep of Tory gains, the former Conservative ministers David Gauke, Dominic Grieve and Anne Milton, all of whom stood as independents after they had the whip removed for voting in parliament to a block a no-deal Brexit, also lost their seats.

The veteran politician Frank Field, who resigned from Labour this summer, lost in Birkenhead. The former Labour MPs who joined the Liberal Democrats – Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger and Angela Smith – and former Tories to join the party – Sarah Wollaston, Sam Gyimah, Phillip Lee and Antoinette Sandbach – all failed to win.
Pride cometh before a "fool"
What a fantastic day!

How is the attempted coup progressing against the lawfully elected Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 02:59 AM

Taking that a stage further, we have proven that a wafer thin manifesto, hiding from the electorate and any close examination of the manifesto and an intense diet of misleading social media posts is an effective way of winning elections.

So we already know what we can look forward to next time. Probably from all parties.

And, while the US tried this first, I am sure they will be happy with the confirmation of its effectiveness for their elections.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 02:48 AM

It's a sad day for democracy when an election can be won on a campaign of deceit and cowardice. Still, it has been won and it is what we have. Some analysis suggests that now Johnson has a majority we will at least leave the EU with a deal rather than crash out. There is also a glimmer of hope that the working class support for the Tory party will lead it to become more moderate. We can but hope. The biggest silver lining though is that the Brexit party is finished and the ERG has had its teeth pulled.

Always look on the bright side of life...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 02:37 AM

So, I think I can summarize the UK election this way: Our side is screwed.

Is there any hope in this, or has fascism triumphed in the UK? What's the future for the 2020 election in the US?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 02:18 AM

So Jo Swinson has lost her seat.

Whether you think the elections results or great or terrible, it is worth spending a moment to remember we only had an election at all because Jo decided to lend Johnson the LibDem votes to let him call it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 02:18 AM

Will the lefties takes their larruping like men or squeal for ever more.
Tis a grand day for sanity and democracy. The sensible labourites crossed the rubicon and voted tory.

326 needed for majority
Boris Johnson, Conservatives 362
Jeremy Corbyn, Labour 202
Nicola Sturgeon, SNP 48
Jo Swinson, Lib Dems 11

Looks like all the smug pontificating lefties got a smack in the face with reality.
We brexiteers won the referendum and won the election.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA


So red sails in the sunset for compo and a resounding endorsement for Boris.

What a fine Christmas present. Lemons all round for the lefties(snigger, snigger) After putting up with your perpetual whining on here concerning the referendum results your case has just been blown out of the water.

Democracy rules!!!!!! Live with it.

First job of the day is to privatize the BBC, it is nothing but a nest of vipers, though the dwarf'sface on TV was a picture. All his machinations came to nowt!

I might have to dance a little jig, I cannot wait to see the loony left's reaction!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Dec 19 - 01:29 AM

Well deserved Tory majority after people see sense at last!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Dec 19 - 09:55 PM

Doesn't Jeremy Vine get a lot of work. You'd think they'd employ a few more people. I get fed up with him doing everything.

As for Labour. Its very predictable what's happened. The tactic of filling facebook with insults has worked. Everybody insulted by them has voted for someone else.

Presumably it was some sort of directive from the top. Still. they like being in opposition. Just a pity for all the poot people who are stuck withe tories shitting on them.

Still, you've had your fun.