The re-Imagined Village

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:02 AM

English flute:
The name used during the 18th century for the recorder in order to distinguish it from the transverse flute (orchestral), which was at that time called the German flute. There's somewhat of a difference between the recorder and the flute, so, please, WAV, give it a rest

need I say more.....?

Olivia Beak (Ms)- guitars electric and acoustic, mandocello.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 08:19 AM

...here, e.g., Will.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 05:28 AM

It's actually monthly, on the 2nd Sunday of the month, but this one will be a bit special. Mind you, a birthday every month would be quite something - or would I get blase about it.

English flute? No such instrument...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:30 AM

I think that should be a weekly event, Will.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:17 AM

...no English flutes?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:11 AM

I'll bring my Irish bouzouki then. As I'm learning whistle I'll bring that too.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:54 AM

Bouzoukis always welcome. Not so sure about banjos and bodhrans - well, OK, then. (How could I exclude my own tenor banjo?)

Being computerised, my recording deck will have an infinite number of channels - bring all the instruments (except citterns) and musicians you can muster, and we'll have an extended jam session running over several CDs.

Actually, I'm doing a very similar thing to this on Sunday next - for my 65th birthday - when nearly all the musicians I know and play with at sessions and in the band will be meeting for a massive bash in my local. Such is village life. Music starts at 8pm, and I'm expecting a fair selection of guitars, fiddles, melodeons, concertinas, mandolins, bass, cajon, whistles, small pipes - all playing a lovely mix of traditional stuff, blues, ragtime, jazz and anything you fancy.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:19 AM

"No f*ck*ng citterns!"

Will, I'd never have taken you for a citternist. OK, can I bring my 10-string, unison-tuned, short-neck bouzouki?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack out and about
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:03 AM

Didn't mean to offend Ollie Beak - it was meant in jest! Never mind, you can't be all bad if you're decended from a Brummie.

I forgot gypsy too.

Bostin!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:32 PM

Imelda is used predominantly in places like Italy and Spain. It is derived from Germanic origins, from the name Irmenhild.

Nope definitely not English....oh dear...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:23 PM

"RI villagers may listen to Americans perform their rock - but not perform it, nor support, by way of recordings held, other English folk so doing."

What an interesting phrase. "RI villagers may ... not perform it". A fascinating insight into a thought process and a philosophy. Regardless of art, intuition, imagination, inclination, talent - "thou shalt not"...

One characteristic of a village - re-imagined or not - is that, ultimately, villagers are a law unto themselves and, not matter what the diktat, will do as they please. Anarchy of a very subtle sort reigns in villages, WAV - something that is utterly beyond your comprehension.

My recording studio is getting put together very efficiently indeed. I'm just preparing a notice to be nailed to the front door - a bit like Luther's 95 theses - which says: "No f*ck*ng citterns!"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:06 PM

"or maybe a mead, O.B. (Ms)..?
- WalkaboutsVerse
I only drink with friends, YOU don't even come close.

and Sugarfoot Jack, you missed the point, but after reading your rant, that's hardly surprising..oh god! and my dad has to share his Brummie heritage with the likes of you....

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:26 AM

And isn't Imelda an Irish name? Surely that won't do...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:22 AM

Is 'beaut' Australian slang?

Or even 'beaut.'.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:02 AM

...on the contrary, I only knew of such deeds from Jessica Lange's character in Rob Roy, TL. But another thing I heard, on the quiet from Imelda, is that, so keen was Jed's fetish at one time, he even wanted to rename the RIV "Wellin Garden Village."

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:26 AM

Sorry WAV, I was forgetting, you're from Australia where human-ovine relationships are the norm. I'm teaching your grandmother to suck eggs here – or, rather, you grandfather to f**k sheep.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:13 AM

Ahhh, maybe, WAV, but you know the old phrase: "a pair of wellies without a sheep, is like a bed without a sleep".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:01 AM

...Imelda, the beaut barmaid at the Mute Swan pub, mentioned, just quietly, old Jed had a secret fetish for wellies..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 05:02 AM

"I'm including a stonking great recording studio filled with all sorts of good gear"

Nice one, Will. Whipstaff will be booking a session.

Just a word to the wise - don't dig too deep in the cottage gardens. There were some strange rumours about what old Jed Sly used to get up to in the middle of the night (taps side of nose with finger).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 04:38 AM

"nice Anglo-Saxon Protestant types"

No offence, but feck right off.

I'm an Anglo-Celtic-Huguenot Pagan Marxist Republican Brummie Digger. As for Empire - it was all a capitalist sham, any idiot can see that.

Get it right.

George Harrison was a big fan up the Uke.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 04:32 AM

...or maybe a mead, O.B. (Ms)..?
To Will and Sean: George surely could have played his repertoire on an English cittern - thereby helping maintain an English tradition. I saw a documentary a few weeks ago where a native Hawaiian was acting as tour guide for a TV presenter and crew; while leading the walk he was nonchalantly, but impressively. playing a ukulele - thereby helping maintain an Hawaiian tradition.

And, accordingly, if you'll pardon the pun, overall, I think the follow is a good endeavour...

Poem 32 of 230: THE POLYNESIAN CULTURAL CENTRE

North, on the warm island of Oahu
    There's a really good place to see:
The Polynesian Cultural Centre -
    A centre linked by Christianity;
It's run by a broad-minded Christian group,
    Championing cultures while they preach.
I talked to a few of the kind members,
    And here's an abstract of their speech:

The employees are all uni. students,
    Labouring for their study and board;
They come from many Pacific islands,
    And are all believers in their Lord;
They are studying for varied degrees,
    And working at a number of jobs;
Some work as cultural entertainers,
    While others serve the tourist mobs.

I walked around for more than half a day,
    Then went to a skilled stage-show at night.
By day, the different island nations
    Do shows at their own cultural site;
There's good Tahitian cooking to be tried,
    Tamure dancing and hula, too.
Plus, at night, dramatic fire-walking,
    Drums and song, to name you but a few.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:00 AM

The UKULELE will he the greater epitome of ENGLAND that the CITTERN ever could be - especially the non-existent Barbour Shop Citterns as dreamed of by our Hapless Repatriate.

Two names of utter and quintessential Englishness almost synonymous with the Ukulele : George Formby and Vivian Stanshall.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:17 PM

what if an English cittern orchestra could be "absolutely fabulous", Will?

Well, you see, this is the difference between you, David, and most of the 'Catters. If an "English cittern" orchestra, as you call it, sounded better than any other particular instrumental combination, then I'd support it on purely musical grounds. You, on the other hand, would support it on purely ideological grounds - regardless of musical quality - i.e. just because it fitted your idea of "Englishness". Big difference. Music matters more than ideology any day.

Anyway, I've bought up the 2 small cottages and I'm in the process of knocking them into one. I'm including a stonking great recording studio filled with all sorts of good gear, by the way.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM

I was merely commenting on WAV's visions of England, not this particular thread, which is eccentric, to say the least. I have to admit that I am not of the rural frame of mind, having lived in urban centres all my life, but for those who like it, go for it.

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:46 PM

"for well behaved citizens, nice Anglo-Saxon Protestant types, where everything is provided for you, the shop, the pub, the church, and all worked, directly or indirectly, for the lord of the manor,"

WHAT! I think you'll find that absolutely none of that applies in the RIV we (apart from WAV) have been creating!This village has been well and truly 'levelled' and is....well, eccentric, to say the least. Why not drop round for a few bottles and a couple of spliffs - I'll invite some of the neighbours?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:23 PM

Please don't infer (using my first name) that we are friends, we're not.
and one small thing (For what it's worth, I hate imperialism,)
I don't believe you.

Stand and Be Counted

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:18 PM

For what it's worth, I hate imperialism, Olivia.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:56 PM

"an English cittern orchestra could be "absolutely fabulous","
- WalkaboutsVerse
Sorry, sunshine, boring! Your vision of an ideal England (read a model England)isn't mine, and never ever will be.

Actually all this reminds me of those model villages set up by the local lord of the manor, for well behaved citizens, nice Anglo-Saxon Protestant types, where everything is provided for you, the shop, the pub, the church, and all worked, directly or indirectly, for the lord of the manor, (they all vote the same way as well, where the sun never sets on The Empire.

At least Ealing's vision of England had abit of grit to it

Stand and be Counted
Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:55 PM

Ukulele is a Hawaiian name for a Portuguese instrument rather than an instrument from their own good culture.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:34 PM

The ukulele is Hawaiian, and what if an English cittern orchestra could be "absolutely fabulous", Will?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:16 PM

WAV - I've seen the Ukulele Orchestra of GB - and they are absolutely fabulous. The day good music is subordinated to some stupid kind of numbingly stupid and pointless orthodoxy is the day we all give up the musical ghost. Get a re-imagined life.:-)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:04 PM

Appearing tonight at the Proms should be an English Cittern Orchestra - NOT the Ukulele Orchestra of GB.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:06 AM

What was that? I was too busy erecting all these polytunnels in my garden.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:00 AM

"RI villagers may listen to Americans perform their rock - but not perform it, nor support, by way of recordings held, other English folk so doing."

Sorry I've been absent, but as soon as I read this I went off to listen to my Tom Waits albums and work out some accompaniments on my Irish Bouzouki, whistle and the shakey egg program on my iPhone.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:12 AM

...fine - but excluding veggies from the native-flora for native-fauna rule does need some qualification: in some cases, fair-trade may be better than going too far with our steps to grow veggies from other lands; e.g., do we want our RIV surrounded by glass/PVC constructions..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:36 AM

"can we plant cumin, curry leaves, chili, ginger, etc?"

I already grow garlic, chilies, coriander, fenugreek (methi), lemongrass and many other herbs. I often wondered if rice would grow in this country.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:17 AM

Concerning our diet in the RIV, as most of the 'curries' sold in Indian takaways/restaurants were invented in this country can we plant cumin, curry leaves, chili, ginger, etc? O and how about a paddy field? I saied for 10 years on Indian crewed ships and I can tell you that their curries bore v. little resembance to our 'shop' versions. Any news about the spagettiharvest?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:50 AM

...loss of native habitat IS a significant problem, and gardeners can do their bit - digging for native fauna - by planting local native species (link just above for more on this).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:25 AM

Well, that's convenient.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:25 AM

"I found out recently that the list of vegetables introduced to Britain by the Romans"

To say nothing of all the flower varieties introduced over the years - including many that make up the "traditional" cottage garden.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:18 AM

Yes Ruth, but it's been said (here, e.g.) that vegetables, herbs and other consumables should be excluded from the native-flora for native-fauna rule, in order to limit food miles, etc.

So starling - not albatross nor bittern for the trad plucking of a cittern , thanks, S. And TL - it's a polymer plectrum for 10 WIRE strings you mention, yes?

"you're the one who seems to think it's VERY english to play the cittern (personally I find it a very boring instrument), so you figure out what bird (whatever that means)"...No, no - haven't you heard the tongue-twister, Beak?...

Peter Piper placed aside his pipes and settled with his cittern.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:45 AM

I found out recently that the list of vegetables introduced to Britain by the Romans, and therefore not native, includes garlic, onions, shallots, leeks, cabbages, peas, celery, turnips, radishes, and asparagus. If the diet in the RIV consists only of native foods, and the gardens (including allotments) only host native species, the vegetarians are going to have a pretty boring diet, aren't they?

Oh - they also introduced apples and cherries. So that's pud done for.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:19 AM

The players of the Barber Shop Cittern actually used starling feathers, with the pointed end being pushed in hard beneath the fingernails so they might brush the strings with the soft ends. This being 17th century London, infection was common despite the liberal use of antiseptics with many players losing fingers, hands, arms, and in many cases lives in consequence of their somewhat perverse craft. It was the fashion for a time for many non-musical dilettantes to push feathers beneath their fingernails so as to impress the ladies that they too were musicianers. Seems this also enhanced a ladies pleasure in the bedroom (or more likely the back alley) though not without further risk of infection, which was pretty much par for the course in 17th century London.

Happily, the tradition of Barber Shop Citterns still exists in the Lancastrian towns of Preston (latterly a city), Blackpool and Lancaster, though these days the players use sellotape (that Durex to you, WAV) to affix the feathers to their finger tips. It is thrilling to hear their repertoires of Traditional English Folk Songs being self-accompanied by lustrous chordal polyphonies as they have been since the 16th century. This is facilitated by the Barber Shop Cittern's re-entrant tuning, similar to many modern 5-string banjo and ukulele tunings enabling chords to be played easily so the performer might concentrate on their singing.         

It is interesting to ponder the etymology of the word Cittern with respect of its place as an instrument of English Nationalism. Methinks if we removed all things & peoples of Foreign Origin from England there'd be little & no-one left.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:31 AM

"and that cittern...is it 5 times 2 (wire) strings...could I get a feather-plectrum for it - and what bird?"

It's a Fylde 10-string and it needs something a lot more robust than a feather to play it. I use a Jim Dunlop Delrin .71mm plectrum. In fact I use a lot, as it blunts the edges after about a week. This is not some polite traditional instrument, WAV; it's a modern concept, first thought up by Stephan Sobell, and it's a bit of a beast - perfect for the "psychfolk" stuff I like.

"(personally I find it a very boring instrument)"

Ollie, like any instrument, that rather depends how it's played.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:52 PM

Is this instruments difficult to get to grips with (I won't be so presumptious as to say "master")? It seems perfect for getting somehow to the heart of traditional folk song, and giving it a setting which emphasises a necessary other-world quality. I'm also fascinated by the left-hand/fingering/holding technique in which the instrument seems to float.

I bought mine very cheaply off Ebay three or four years ago to use for a series of nocturnal al-fresco winter woodland storytelling gigs having watched traditional Karadeniz Kemence players on YouTube. The ergonomics of the instrument are that you do play it dangling off the thumb, and can push it up to the floating horizontal. It's tuned in 4ths (EAD) so the finger positions are easy and it gives me pretty much any tune I ask of it. Problem is - getting a good one. Mine is exceptional amongst other cheap ones I've seen which tend to be pretty unplayable. The Turkish Karadeniz Kemence is more or less the same instrument as the Greek Pontic Lyra. I'm giving serious thought to progressing onto the Lyra, but it'll cost a lot more than the £20 I paid for my Black Sea Fiddle.

There is a nice site - http://www.kemence.com/ - with some fine instruments, though the maker seems very fond of jewels! I do like his four-string with the fiddle head; I often dream of a fourth string (thoughif you capo a violin it's possible to play it like a kemence, though you do get odd looks).   

I am no master (check out the traditional players / singers on YouTube; THIS ONE is an especial favourite!) but I took to the instrument like a duck to water. If you go to the SHIBBOLETH myspace page & listen to the track Terra Suum Oss you'll hear a duo improvisation recorded with percussionist Clive Powell when I'd had the instrument for a week. Thing is, whilst I've learned a lot of tunes & songs over the years, I don't think I actually play it now any better than I did back then!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM

Er - 600?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:49 PM

you're the one who seems to think it's VERY english to play the cittern (personally I find it a very boring instrument), so you figure out what bird (whatever that means)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:46 PM

...but what bird, JWO Beak?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:16 PM

"RI villagers may listen to Americans perform their rock - but not perform it, nor support, by way of recordings held, other English folk so doing."
- WalkaboutsVerse

one extremely good reason for not participating in this thread....
and I'll continue to listen to what I choose to listen to!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:06 PM

I'm interested in one of the cottages, TL - maybe a wildlife pond will do instead of a "lake", and a patch instead of a "plot"...and that cittern...is it 5 times 2 (wire) strings...could I get a feather-plectrum for it - and what bird?