Robin Hood in the Crusades?

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 24 May 10 - 06:50 AM

Robin and Marian is one of the best films I have ever seen.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 24 May 10 - 05:14 AM

This site gets Way too picky at times. Raymond was commenting about a Richard and a Robert, and clearly didn't realise he had typed the wrong "R" word before clicking the "send" button.

As for the crusades. I was not at all sure exactly how they fitted in with other events, so looked them up. It turns out that the Third Crusade lasted Three years. Richard's dad signed up for it, but then died before the armies started out, leaving Richard as a new king. Richard lived in Aquitaine at the bottom end of France, so presumable didn't have as far to travel to get to the Crusade, but it must have taken a while to march an army as far as Jerusalem.
When the crusade finished, on his way home, Richard managed to get himself imprisoned for about 15 months. In all, he was out of the frame for over four years, but less than five, but then again - he didn't actually live in England, and before the crusade started, it was his father who was king.

Given the duration of the Crusade (Is 3 years a long war or a short one?) I imagine that anyone who went to it to fight probably stayed until the finish. A foot soldier would then have had to walk or bum a lift home, unlike nobles who had horses. Even given Richard's imprisonment of over a year, it wouldn't leave a lot of time for our hoodie chap to travel home, form his band and knuckle up to a sheriff and a prince before Richard was ransomed and back in charge.

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Darowyn
Date: 24 May 10 - 04:49 AM

Does not Robin Hood, or a similar character turn, up in Walter Scott's "Ivanhoe"?
That gives it the Crusader/ Richard I /King John connection, and also introduces a bit of Norman/Saxon ethnic strife.
That might be the origin of that extension of the myth.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 10 - 04:35 AM

Now, here's a strange co-incidence I have never noticed before. Loxley is almost equidistant between Gisburn and Nottingham. Around 50-something miles from each as far as I can see. Must have some sort of meaning in all these legends. Maybe it was a stopping of point for the Sherrif of Nottingham on he way to see his pal, Guy? Or vice-versca. They must have seen ol' Rob's gaff and thought "'ere - I fancy that place" - and nicked it! Worth including in any retelling anyway (remember to credit me with the idea!)

On the 'green' bit - Is it not more likely that the legend of the green man is the source rather than some cloth that was momentarily fasionable in court circles?

DeG

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 24 May 10 - 02:52 AM

I find the idea of him being dressed in red weird, too, but the early ballads are pretty clear on it...obviously others thought the same thing and "Lincoln Graine" morphed at some point into "Lincoln Green" (leaving Will Scarlett, presumably, as the token upholder of the original tradition :-) )

Yes, the Richard/ Robert confusion was eminently honkable, but I was pointing out that Don's additional Loxley/ Locksley transformation was unnecessary since Loxley village had a good claim on Mr Hood. As far as I know, there isn't any village spelled "Locksley" within a plausible distance of either a Yorkshire or Nottinghamshire setting.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 May 10 - 07:55 PM

Yup, Kat. It was the "Richard" / "Robert" thing I was honkin' about.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 May 10 - 07:47 PM

I think Don was being picky about the same thing I noticed,(my emphasis:)

My impression was that Robin (Richard of Loxley) had been away on the Crusades and had returned to find his lands confiscated by King John etc..

Looks as though Robin was identified as "Richard," no?

Regardless, this is a fun read!

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 10 - 06:53 PM

Hides the blood.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 May 10 - 06:02 PM

I too, as a child, had what I believe was the same novel, I remember it was published by Nelsons, had a dark blue leathergrain cover. I remember the novel laid a good deal of emphasis on Robin's piety, as well as his martial prowess.

I find the idea of him wearing a red-dyed outfit somewhat bizarre. Presumably green would have been a more effective camouflage in the forest, shirley ?

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: GUEST,Jane Ann Liston
Date: 23 May 10 - 05:49 PM

I think I recall hearing that the earliest ballads are from well after the Crusades, 14th or 15th century.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 23 May 10 - 04:14 PM

I think I may have had the same novel as Janet as a child, I think it was one of my Dad's old childhood books. I certainly recall the character of Robert of Loxley whose lands were confiscated by Prince John way before the modern films and probably before Richard Green's Robin on TV.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Chris Partington
Date: 23 May 10 - 02:39 PM

Rob da Hood was played by Richard Green, riding through the glen. Twangg!
So Robin has a Richard and a green connection after all. :)

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 10 - 02:27 PM

Robert and Robin are the same name, like James and Jimmy.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 23 May 10 - 01:56 PM

Being picky picky picky again, while "Robert" is often given as his full name (Robin being a common diminutive for Robert in medieval england), Loxley in Yorkshire has the oldest connections with the tales and ballads, so Ray's spelling was accurate there, at least.

Other common misconceptions include him being clothed in "Lincoln Green". In fact, the earliest ballads say it was "Lincolne Greyne", "greyne" or "graine" being a red dye colour!

Again, if the man was any more than a balladeer's myth, the earliest tales describe him as a "yeoman" rather than a noble, knight or squire...ie a free man, but relatively low down the social order of the time, so unlikely to have been a crusading knight.

Any history from which the subsequent myths is derived though is so vague as to make any links between the tales, from whatever age, and a historical figure, tenuous in the extreme.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 May 10 - 01:33 PM

I believe that is Robert of Locksley.

(picky picky picky)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 May 10 - 12:45 PM

It's a film. Historical accuracy is right at the bottom of the pile, particularly when the main character is just a legend. The sequel will probably have him flying a spaceship, and why not? It's entertainment.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: GUEST,Janet
Date: 23 May 10 - 11:30 AM

In one novel I read years ago (probably now out of print, can't remember author, can't find it by title listings in my state's catalog of library materials), Robin was in the Crusades serving alongside with his neighbor, Lady Marian's father. When he and she caught up with each other after his return, Robin was able to tell her that her father had died in a/n heroic way. Can't recall ever reading why Robin came back instead of staying to fight, though. Also, Robin's being with Richard in the Crusades seemed to explain why Richard recognized Robin when they met again in England. Presumably Robin was fairly young (squire-age, maybe? possibly squire for Marian's father?) when they left England and Richard had seen him grow into manhood in the Holy Lands.

Subject: RE: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: r.padgett
Date: 23 May 10 - 04:17 AM

All the television Robin Hoods had the time period when Richard 1st (The Lionheart) was away on the Crusades, leaving King John (of the Magna Carta fame) becoming Robin Hoods arch enemy

My impression was that Robin (Richard of Loxley) had been away on the Crusades and had returned to find his lands confiscated by King John etc

All probably fictitious I suppose!

Ray

Subject: Robin Hood in the Crusades?
From: GUEST,Doug Olsen
Date: 23 May 10 - 03:48 AM

All this talk about the new Robin Hood movie makes me wonder where the notion that he went on Crusade comes from. It's not in the ballads, not in the Howard Pyle telling, not in the Errol Flynn movie. The first place I can think of it appearing is in Richard Letster's 1976 movie "Robin and Marion." But since then, it's part of almost every large-scale treatment, seems to me. Anyone know how it crept in?