meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:18 AM

On the phone in Japan, they say 'Mushy, mushy' when they answet it

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Ktulu789
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:06 AM

I think is some kind of childish gibberish. The next line goes "Whack for my daddy-o". "Musha..." has no meaning but seems more childish when the next line comes with the word "Daddy", makes a bit of sense to me. But it has no meaning anyway.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Jim Lad
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 01:25 AM

"which, being Scottish, I have to spell without the e in whisky "
Where YOU are from is not important to the spelling of the word. It's where the Whisky is from that dictates the spelling. (Some thing a little distillery in Inverness County, Cape Breton, should make note of. Such matters should not be taken lightly.
They're on my list.
*Hic*
Jim
Big Mick: You have successfully completed your probationary period and are officially off the list.
However, as a condition of your parole, I will be referring to you only as "Mick" for a period of no less than 30 (thirty) days.

Subject: RE: meaning - flee fly flo
From: Viracocha
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 01:21 PM

Although this is a bit off-topic, now, as we're off the 'flee fly flo' topic, and more onto 'whisky in a jar' (which, being Scottish, I have to spell without the e in whisky ;P ). I've checked, but no one's replied with this yet, which really surprised me. There's a far more recent song released by a band called fe-m@ail, and the title is actually 'Flee Fly Flo.' Courtesy of lyricsactions.com, the lyrics go:

FLEE FLY FLO

Flee!
(Flee!)
Flee Fly!
(FLee Fly!)
Flee Fly Flo!
(FLee Fly Flo!)
Fista!
(Fista!)
Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista
(Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista)
Oh nononono, (not) a vista
(Oh nononono, (not) ca vista)
Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy
(Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny)
Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum

New Style New Style we got the new style,
Freestyle Meanwhile sister got it by a mile,
Lifestyle, girls smile, we can do it all the while.
Telephone dialing, rub-a-dub styling.

On a really cool tip, You can be a part of this trip
All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this.

(Ooooooooooooh!) Read my lips!

Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista
(Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista)
Oh nononono, (not) a vista
(Oh nononono, (not) ca vista)
Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy
(Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny)
Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum

Watch me do it, you can do it this way
North and South and East and Westway
Monday to Sunday, gotta be a funday
We don't care what anyone's gonna say

On a really cool tip, You can be a part of this trip
All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this.
All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this.

Flee!
(Flee!)
Flee Fly!
(FLee Fly!)
Flee Fly Flo!
(FLee Fly Flo!)
Fista!
(Fista!)
Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista
(Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista)
Oh nononono, (not) a vista
(Oh nononono, (not) ca vista)
Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy
(Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny)
Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum

Oooooooooooooooooooh! Re-fry this!


However, my mum learnt this (below) at camp in the early seventies (the spaces are as it is written in her self-written 'songbook'):

FIE

Fee (fee)
Fee fie (fee fie)
Fee fie fo (fie fie fo)
Vista (vista)
No, no no no de vista (no, no no no de vista)
Coomawala coomawala               coomawala (x2)
Beet-dilly-oten-doten-bo-bo-ska-dooben-daken (x2)


However, that's a completely different tune to Flee Fly Flo! And my sister (only 16) remembers this bit of a playground clapping rhyme, with the same tune (she thinks) as fe-m@il's song:

Eenie-meenie
Esse-meanie    [ess-e like es-ugh]
You are the one for me
Egregation, segregation
I love you.


Incidently, is 'fee fie fo' anything like 'fee fie fum'?

-Viracocha

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:10 AM

For me, he best modern use of a line of mouth music occurs in Christy Moore's 'Knock Song' which ends with

didnatodonatededough, me boys, did nato donate de dough

Lovely!

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Aneurysm
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:14 AM

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

GUEST PMB YOU CRACK ME UP!

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 10:46 AM

Musha is a village in Egypt. Ringum is a $9.99 rug from IKEA. Durum is the kind of wheat used to make pasta. Da is yes in Russian.

So "Musha ringum durum da" means "Yes, I'll have the cheap Egyptian pasta rug."

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: EuGene
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 10:52 PM

Was it Roger Miller who sang "Do Whacka Do Whacka Do Whacka do"? Eu

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 07:25 PM

The 'musha' part means 'mar is ea', pronounced 'mar sha' and meaning "if it be so". I think the ring dum-a-doo-rum-da is port-a-béal - mouth-music, or nonsense syllables sung for fun. Whiskey in the jar - well, pass it round, boys (and girls).

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,periko
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 04:54 PM

i've been wondering what that might mean eversince i heard the thin lizzy version in '73. (had not heard any other versions then) it has been a conversation piece for many years, because ev'rytime that song popped up in my head (which was at least three times a week for about 25 years) i asked whoever was around if they knew what it meant. i think that, just because mr lynott sings it as if it were quite a message, i couldn't stand the fact that i didn't know what he was singing, and nobody else seemed to know either.
a collegue of mine put on the lizzy vesion the other day, and again i started asking all my collegues and customers (mind you: musicbizz that is) and still not a clue. so finally i decided to check google which brought me here. i couldn't believe my eyes! this thing that had become sort of a running gag/obsession in my life, of which i assumed i would be the only freak in the world even bothering, this tiny little big triviality was keeping people busy always & everywhere! bless you all!
but still: i dunno! i like "m'uishe rinne me don amadan" best, but maybe you 'd like to know what i made of it, being a 13-year old dutch kid, after two years of english lessons...
my first interpretation was: "but i ain't gonna do some like that" (which has already quite a lot of possible meanings fitting in the context) but later i thought i heard: "but i ain't gonna do some mother" (maybe even better fitting in the context, and what about mr lynott's personal life being dragged into the chorus?)
"whack! fall the daddy-o" always seemed obvious to me, because he escapes jail after smacking up his warden (if i remember correctly)
finally; "there's whiskey in the jar" was obvious as well, because we have a proverb in holland which says "all is in jugs and jars"; meaning everything is fixed properly.
(and i haven't told you my interpretation as a 10-year old of "crazy horses" yet!) but....
actually i am really glad that there is no official answer to my question, because i'd really miss my obsession.

god by you all (or was it "good be you"?)

periko

www.periko61.nl

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Scrump
Date: 20 Dec 06 - 06:59 AM

That 'flea' song above is similar to the Name Game by Shirley Ellis - I guess the latter was derived from it?

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,maire
Date: 19 Dec 06 - 10:19 AM

well everyone - doesnt patricks thoughts make most sence?

but agai tell me what whiskey and jars have to do with the rest of the song?

just thinking this is one very interesting thread.. and if anyone has ideas - i'd also be most interested in knowing the words to one of my favorite songs

slainte

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Telvanni
Date: 05 Apr 06 - 02:19 PM

I've just been to an Irish pub today, and asked the landlord, what it meant ('Wack fol the daddy-o'), well he laughed and told me that I'll have to wait, til' I get older... since I'm only 17, he must've meant it was too "naughty" to tell me! ;)
So, know you know it IS worth finding out what it means! Or maybe he's just good a joking?! haha

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 06:29 AM

Pardon my ignorance, I referred to Google and discovered-Onomatapaeic- is a dictionary of Slang. It`s in the 2-30 at Catterick. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: ard mhacha
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 06:23 AM

A very informative thread, with some well thought out theories, but away up the thread I came across. onomatapaeic, now can anyone tell me what race this horse is running in. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: s&r
Date: 17 Nov 03 - 08:19 AM

I always feel that "I'm a rover seldom sober I'm a rover of High Degree" would make more sense as "I'm a rover seldom sober I'm a rover I'd agree" with just an air of contrite acceptance...

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 16 Nov 03 - 04:19 PM

Maise = well, indeed seems a lot more likely than "m'uisce"! (I'd also query the syntax of Patrick's proposal, but there are such things as poetic license and garbled transliterations)

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Peace
Date: 15 Nov 03 - 09:24 PM

I knew a fellow named Les in the sixties (1960s) who played a seven-string guitar (he doubled up the treble e string--separate tuning heads). He sang the chorus

Mush a ringum a durum a dah, hah!
Wack fol the daddyo,
Wack fol the daddyo,
There's whiskey in the jar.

That was the first I'd ever heard of the song. Never knew what it meant. Great song, though.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 10:23 PM

hehehe, I really should collect all my thoughts before I post. I keep getting ideas and finding stuff.

Anyway, the last post was slightly unclear in it's last paragraph: Sporting Hero is at the beginning talking to some audience and then ends with him talking directly to Molly (here's the link for those interested: http://bodley24.bodley.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/acwwweng/ballads/image.pl?ref=Harding+B+11(980)&id=01871.gif&seq=1&size=1 ). My comment on possible chorus interpretation is in regards to the more popular modern versions now where he is talking to an audience the whole time. Sorry if that was unclear.

- Patrick Sheehan

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 10:09 PM

As far as translations of the rumbelows goes, I have another one:

m'uisce rinneadh me/ di/obh amada/n (sounds a lot like: musha ringa ma doo um a da, when said quickly) means literally

my whiskey made me, for them, a fool. (or, more conversationally, my whiskey made me stupid and then they got me in my drunken state)

There is a song called "Sporting Hero - or, Whiskey in the Bar" from an early 1850s broadside on Bodleian that is very very similar to Whiskey in the Jar and has the additional verses

1. I am a sporting hero, I never yet was daunted
In treating pretty girls in places where I haunted
In gin and rum and brandy I would spend all my store
I when that is done I would boldly rob for more

4. I being wet and weary and for to take a slumber
I laid my self down all in my Molly's chamber
She unloaded my pistols and loaded them with water
I was taken like a lamb going to the slaughter

8. Some take great delight in their fishing and their fowling
and others take delight in their carriage rolling
but I take great delight in being brisk and jolly
Filling up strong liquors for you deceitful Molly.

Taken in the context of these additional verses, it now makes some sense to me why the song is even CALLED whiskey in the jar. It seems to be based on a story where this drunk highwayman robs this Captain but is so sloshed that when he gets back to his girlfriend's place, she's finally had enough of him coming home trashed and so she decides to hand him over to the authorities. He passes out in her room ("I being wet and weary" possibly a reference to being drunk) and she disarms him so that he wont kill anyone when the police come for him in the morning. Then he escapes and in the end, in this version at least, is still in love with Molly, but seems to wish that he wasn't.

I think my attempt at an Irish-English translation of this fits in nicely with the broader story of the "Sporting Hero" and iknowitall's comment about "whacking the bar to get the bartender's attention" and give an understandable, consistent possible reading of the chorus which is commonly just brushed aside as nonsense. The story of the chorus is that the highway man is in a pub telling this story to the other people in the bar, saying "what I fool I was when drunk, now get me another drink." This is both a more intersting chorus in this light, it is lightly ironic and humorous too.

What do you all think?

- Patrick Sheehan

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan
Date: 14 Nov 03 - 07:53 PM

Along a similar line, does anyone know what the earliest song is that this chorus appears in? It appears in this one and in "Whiskey, you're the Divil" (which is on this site). Does anyone know how far back it goes, with or with out the rest of the song?

- Patrick Sheehan

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 12:08 PM

When we were kids in Tottenham (you can guess how long ago)we used to sing "We won the cup /we won the cup ee i addio we won the cup" .The iaddio bit i thought was nonsense until I went to Ireland about ten years ago and heard my friend's young daughter sing to the same tune   " ta mamas isteach ta mamas isteach duirt daddio ta mamas isteach " In the Irish (which I'm sure I haven't reproduced properly here) it sounds very similar.The words mean something like Mummy's at home tell daddy that mummy's at home.
The Clancy Bros used to sing a song THe Juice of the Barley with a chorus that I always assumed was nonsense "Bunya na bo is na Gowny and the Juice of the Barley for me" which isn't nonsense atall.It translates as The milk of cows is for calves and the juice of the barley's for me.
Brendan Behan wrote that the words of Lillibulero which was sang by the apprentice boys at the siege of Derry and which wqs widely perceived as being nonsense meant The Lilly (the emblem of the boys who were all Gaelic speakers) won the day.
There are a load of other examples but I can't think of any at the moment

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: radriano
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 11:30 AM

In the song "Siul a Run"(sp?) you can see some justification for the theory that nonsense words were not always nonsense. In later American versions of the song nonsense words replace the Irish words as a chorus.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 08:33 AM

Another term for nonsense words/syllables in songs is "rumbelows"

wr

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 03:46 AM

Re why "there's whiskey in the jar":
I think it simply is the part of the story where the narrator expresses his desire to kiss the jar/glass/bottle before continuing; compare "but I'll sing no more now 'till I get a drink" (in Carrickfergus) ;-)

AKS

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 02:40 AM

Anybody know why the song is called "Whiskey in the Jar"? More specifically, why do they say, "There's whiskey in the jar" in the chorus when not one of the versions of the song has anything to do with Whiskey or Jars?
   The last stanza in a lot of the versions has the bit about "the juice of the barley" but all of the songs are about this outlaw guy getting betrayed by some girl, so why is the chorus a bunch of nonsense and a random bit about booze?


Some of my thoughts:
   I keep looking but everywhere I look tells me the same thing: the words in the chorus are just nonsense. But I find that hard to believe. It sounds very much like the little Irish I know:

"Musha ring um a do um a da" is very very similar sounding to these Irish words:
Musha => M'uishe (my whiskey)
ring um a => rinne me/ (rinne = past tense of "de/an" which is "do, make, perform, carry out, commit, turn out, reach, establish"; me/ = "I, me")
do => don (from "do" + "an" = "to the, for the")
um a da => amada/n (fool)

which translates to "I made my whiskey for the fool." Which, as a translation, has the nice qualities that it follows correct Irish grammar and also follows stress rules for both sentences and individual words. It also has to do with whiskey, which is nice.

my whiskey made a fool of me would translate to, I think:
Rinne se/ m'uishe me/ amada/n. Which doesn't work as a translation because the subject has to follow the verb.

"Whack for the daddy-o" is sometimes said to be a mistranscription of "work of the devil-o" which makes some sense as far as my first translation goes in an "alcohol is the devil's brew" sort of sense. It is also in keeping with the story line revolving around a highwayman.

A possible anternative Irish translation is as follows:
uacht failte ta/ diobh,
which sounds like "whack fol cha ta jiov" which is pretty close. Unfortunately, I don't think it makes any sense since it translates to "It is a testament of welcome for them".

My last thought is that maybe it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with whiskey at all. Maybe the line "there's whiskey in the jar" is actually the mistranscribed line. Maybe the chorus never had anything to do with whiskey.

The Irish word for whiskey, "uisce" (pronounced "ish-keh"), is also the Irish word for water. And many of the versions of the song have his girl filling up his cartridges with water as a main plot point. "Whiskey in the jar" might have been a mishearing of some Gaelic like "uisce ina dearadh" punning on dearadh, drawing his pistols and jenny or molly etc drawing water into his charges, or something.

My Irish is definitely not good enough to do the translation but I do think there's something there.

-----
Those are some ideas. Does anybody else have any helpful suggestions? (Aside from the suggestion that it is just nonsense...)
Does anyone know where this chorus originates? (There is a very similar sounding chorus in "Whiskey, you're the divil" which the Clancys cover, I think, and that song has a bit more to do with whiskey but still not much as it's mainly a war song.)
Any leads on what's goin' on here?

- Very confused,
   Patrick Sheehan

[e-mail]

Subject: puirt-a-beul
From: Philippa
Date: 16 Feb 99 - 05:46 PM

There are some more examples of puirt, with translations, (one goes to the tune of "The High Road to Linton") at George Seto's site and C. Cockburn offers an article about puirt-a-beul
I haven't (yet)tried a mudcat foram search to try to find any previous discussion of the topic

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Philippa
Date: 15 Feb 99 - 03:51 PM

Jack,
I would call the 'diddly di dee' type of singing 'lilting', but the marvellous thing about 'puirt-a- beul' (mouth music) is that the words DO make a kind of sense, as well as catching the inflections of the music wonderfully.

Cha tig an latha th‚id mi dhachaidh
Gus an tig na caoraich
Cha tig an latha th‚id mi dhachaidh
Gus an tig na caoraich

Gus an tig a' chaora dhubh,

Gus an tig a' chaora,
Gus an tig a' chaora dhubh
'S a h-adhairc as a h-aonais

basically it "means I won't come home till the sheep come". It's true the words are of little consequence, but they are not meaningless. We have similar songs in English; for instance to the reel "Soldier's Joy":
I am my mother's darling pet
I am my mother's darling pet
I am my mother's darling pet
I won't get married for a long while yet

I don't think any of the ones I know in English match the sound qualities of the best examples of the Gaelic puirt. Though I think 'Old Dan Tucker' might fit in this category and it's quite catchy.
By the way, as a Gaelic learner, I have sometimes been quite excited to realise what tune a lyric goes to simply by reading the words out loud and catching the rhythm.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Jack Hickman, Kingston, Ontario
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 04:52 PM

Greetings, friends.

Just to add my two cents worth to the mix. Without repeating the doggerel in the thread title, I would suggest it is a variant on the ancient art of "lilting" as practiced in Irish ceilidh when the participants were too poor to possess musical instruments. In order that the dancers could have music, one or more of the participants would "lilt" the melody. It's also referred to as "mouth music" and "puert a buill" (spelling questionable.)

In other words it's just a sound to go with the song.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Philippa
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 02:57 PM

I tested the link and it didn't work. I think I had an extra full-stop at the end of the address. So here we go again (Joe is sorry he ever told me about HTML): Scotdisc at http://www.scotdisc.co.uk/shop.htm

Subject: RE: cantaireachd
From: Philippa
Date: 14 Feb 99 - 02:52 PM

I wrote on 3 Feb about the possible relationship of nonsense words to the system of cantaireachd for memorising pipe tunes. I've just been listening to a piping programme on the radio and they played some excerpts of and about cantaireachd from a new CD-Rom "The Great Highland Bagpipe". The reviewers rated it highly, albeit with a couple of quibbles about authenticity, such as an Irish bellows-blown uilleann pipe being played to illustrate the sound of the defunct pastoral pipe. Scotdisc has a webpage advertising this CD-Rom

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Rosie
Date: 06 Feb 99 - 11:14 AM

I've also been thinking that this type of "phrasology" is called "lilting"(shades of me Irish granny *sniff*). The term appears in Philippa's Feb 3 posting.

It's a good warm-up excercise for Irish brogue-ing.

Fiddle-de-di-dilly-deedle-de-day!

Rosie

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Melodeon
Date: 05 Feb 99 - 05:55 PM

Who cares what it means!!! Where else can you stand up and say/sing something like 'musha ring dumma do dumma da' or 'ri fal latterly O' or even 'To me rite fal lal, to me ral tal lal, whack fol the dear oh day', and people applaud you? The Houses of Parliament? - Capitol Hill?

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Philippa
Date: 05 Feb 99 - 03:32 PM

"whack-fol-the diddle" means "refresh" in Phlipantish.

as in "whack-fol-the didle-i-doh" which means "I'm not looking to have the last word on this topic".

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Philippa
Date: 03 Feb 99 - 02:45 PM

Shoo-bop-a-loo-bop. Yes, I heard the Pictish theory before; the lost tongue surviving only in choral remnants. And there certainly ARE songs in which the original language of the song survives in a corrupted form in the chorus. It happens quite a bit with the songs of immigrants in N America. Cuilionn mentions a variant of "si£l a r£in" (in the database as Shule Aroon, Buttermilk Hill, Shule Agra/Johnny has gone for a soldier; and also in an earlier thread in Irish); another example from Irish would be versions of an Drim¡onn D¡lis collected in Canada.
But I would like to offer another theory about the origin of meaningless syllables. In many cases they have no particular function except to sound funny and be fun to sing together. But the custom may have risen out of vocables that were used as mnemonics to help memorise tunes.
Some of you will know about songs that pipers used to learn tunes. As I understand it, the songs were similar to singing a melody with the words "doh, re, mi, fa," etc. fitting exactly which note was played. But the system was more complicated than that because there were also syllables to represent the time the note was held and some of the fingered ornamentation. Thus a piper could practise without an instrument, moving their fingers as the sound symbols of the song indicated.
Scottish waulking songs have characteristic choral lines such as "o hi h-oireann o". Everyone waulking the tweed would sing these choruses together as they worked, while individuals would sing the verses. The verses can be adapted and improvised, but any particular melody has very specific vocables and they are supposed to be strictly adhered to. Given a line of the chorus, those in the know will be able to give you the entire tune. John Campbell and Frances Collinson did some analysis of how particular sounds(for instance the length of vowels)give the rhythm of the tune. I don't know what further study has been done on the topic.
Has anyone got a theory about why Scots Gaels "hi ho", Irish singers "diddle da dee", Jazz goes "beebop", etc - the preponderence of a particular initial syllable in the lilting and vocatives of different cultures or musical styles?

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Margo
Date: 03 Feb 99 - 12:32 PM

Hey alison!

I'm amazed at your "flea fly flo" rhyme. I learned the same one at camp in the sierras. Your version is verbatim to the one I know. THAT'S WIERD! You'd expect the differences.....

Margarita

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 07:32 PM

Thanks Alison & Karen! At least my mind worm will get it in the right order now......Joe (and others) - it must be much nore common in the US - I'd never ever heard it before until a couple of years ago sitting round a camp fire.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 02:34 PM

wasn't it Seamus Ennis who had a funny joke/monologue about a father and his kids, where he doesn't feel good, and they bring him a toddy, and inquire of it's efficacity ..."did da Rum do, Da-Dee?"....

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 01:46 PM

I dinnae hae th' Irish, anely a wee bit o' Scots Gaelic, but I'm wi' Sean an' th' ithers whae think "Musha ring" comes frae wairds our Modern English/American ears hear as "nonsense."

Allow me tae present ye wi' a relatit example: growin' up subjectit tae Peter, Paul, an' Mary's rendition o' sangs, I thocht for years that th' followin' wairds were "jist nonsense syllables:"

"Shool, shool, shool-a-roon, / shool-a-rack-shack / shool-a-bob a-coon..."

These wairds were pairt o' th' chorus tae th' auld sang aboot th' lass lamentin' that, as usual, "Johnny's gane for a soldier..." Weel, I haed ma suspicions that I wisnae gettin' th' hale story wi' that odd "nonsense" chorus, an' sure eno'!!! I went tae a sang wairkshop at an Irish festival in Alaska, an' there wis a fellow teachin' us th' proper Irish wairds.

"Shool-a-run" actually comes frae th' Irish Gaelic (forgie me for wrichtin' Scots Gaelic an' omittin' accents, I dinnae hae th' Irish wairds printit oot) wairds "Siubhal"--meanin' travel-- an' "Run" meanin' someane verra dear. So th' narrator's nae babblin' like an' eejit, she's lamentin' th' fact that her love maun gae travellin' aff, an' possibly sayin' sumpit tae th' effect o' "sure, gae aff an' leave me, I'll jist sit here on ma hill wi'oot ma spinnin' wheel an' SUFFER..."

I'm thinkin' tis time tae lay this ane afore oor resident Mudcat Irish scholars. Onyane oot there wi' a facility for Irish an' eno' vocabulary/interpretion skills tae render "Musha-ring..." in th' auld Mither Tongue? Barrin' that, onyane oot there wi' eno' Irish tae tell me aff, an' laugh in ma face because ye ken it really IS nonsense, sairvin' tae cover up sumpit waurse?!?

maist humbly submitted,

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 01:52 AM

Not that my postings are Shakespeare-like in their brilliance but can anybody tell me why they're coming out anonymously? Am I doing something wrong?

Rick F

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 01:48 AM

many years ago I heard Bram Morrison (before he became a trillionaire with Sharon Lois and Bram) singing "A Kangeroo sat on an oak...with the chorus Ki moneero kitty kum ki mo ki mo neero ki mo...he said it was a Newfoundland variant of Carrion Crow, and my friend who was with me wondered if the chorus was gaelic. I'm right now trying to decypher the hidden meaning that has escaped me all these years. In the meantime can anybody tell me what "Diddy wa Diddy" means?

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Feb 99 - 12:25 AM

I was driving with a friend whi is Irish, and we were listening to "Whiskey in the Jar". When hit got to the "musha ring dumma do" part, my friend says "Ah! here's the dirty part"."What ya mean, the dirty part?" I said.He told me that a lot of old Irish tunes were originally performed in pubs frequented by men only, and that the refrains were almost always "off-color", as they say.These were cleaned up for the functions where women,or folk music chroniclers, were in attendance.Now it's entirely possible my good friend was pulling my leg and it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe one of the Irish Mudcatters can confirm or refute this dread insult against celtic music. LEJ

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: O'Boyle
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:34 PM

I knew some one who asked a band to play the "black balls on the patio" song which he thought were the words to the chorus of Whiskey in the Jar.

Rick

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: karen k
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:26 PM

Oops, Sorry Joe. I forgot all about the
's

karen

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: karen k
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:23 PM

My version is the same as Alison's until the first line that ends with vista (but I learned vistey not vista).

FLEA

Each line is echoed back to the leader.

Flea (Flea) Flea fly (Flea fly) Flea fly flo (Flea fly flo) Vistey (Vistey)

Cumala, cumala, cumala vistey

Oh no no no not the vistey

Vistey ( and then it really changes!)

Eeney meney dis a leenee, ooh ahh ahh meleenee Otchicotchee oochirachee, ooh ahh ooh. Ish bibili oaten doten, why not in doten toten, bo bo ski doten toten hey don areema!

This was always a camp song that was lots of fun because you got faster each time until everyone just collapsed in laughter. I've heard other versions but this is the only one I've ever been able to learn.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 11:14 PM

Hey, Alison, that's exactly the way I learned it from my obnoxious kid sister. She'd do it over and over and over again. It was disgusting. It still is....
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: alison
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 10:16 PM

Hi Jo and Rick,

Used to sing it as a brownie and guide. the rhythm is done by slapping your thighs then clapping your hands.

FLEA

(All lines are done by the leader then echoed)

Flea
Flea fly
Flea fly flo
vista

Cumala, cumala, cumala vista
Oh no no no no da vista
Eeney meaney decimeaney ooh wala wala meaney ex a meaney sal a meaney ooh wala wa
Beat biddley oten doten bobo da beeten doten Shhhhht.

Then you do it FAST!!!

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 08:51 PM

Emma Dusenberry was discovered by some of those good political/social activists at the Commonwealth School in Mena, Arkansas, a fact that undoubtedly thickens the "plot." Lee Hayes was one of 'em, too, so there you are, Rick! Probably a direct conspiratorial link to Abiyoyo and Risselty-Rosselty, designed to weaken our patriotic resolve by filling our heads with nonsense.

Jo: We've collected about a dozen "Mama-lama-kooma-lama, mama-la vistas" in schools around the country, and no two were ever quite the same. Similar, yes, but not identical. Our granddaughter learned a version here in rural Connecticut. Bessie Jones had a dandy one from the Georgia Sea Islands. Trouble is, they've all been done too fast for me to be able to transcribe the words!

Sandy

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From: Mike Billo
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 08:31 PM

I'll lay claim to the "most pretentious twit" award ( a dubious honor that I'm, unfortunately, very familiar with) by contributing that the technical name for the singing of syllables that are not actually a part of a real language is called turtleage.

Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da
From:
Date: 01 Feb 99 - 08:14 PM

Anyone with a modicum of linguistic ability understands it to mean "SHITE". MG Sport