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BS: election uk
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 28 Apr 15 - 05:09 AM Steve, you might be right but here is an alternative view from the Oxford University Migration Observatory, March last year. "UK research suggests that immigration has a small impact on average wages of existing workers but more significant effects along the wage distribution: low-wage workers lose while medium and high-paid workers gain. More... The wage effects of immigration are likely to be greatest for resident workers who are migrants themselves. More... Research does not find a significant impact of overall immigration on unemployment in the UK, but the evidence suggests that immigration from outside the EU could have a negative impact on the employment of UK-born workers, especially during an economic downturn. http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/labour-market-effects-immigration |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Richard Bridge Date: 28 Apr 15 - 05:01 AM Terribilis - please TRY to think. The factor that clearly emerges from even your bigoted rant is that it was the banking system's recycling of geared falsely rated debt that was the key factor. That is squarely down to the right wing ideal of unregulated casino banking. The only complaint the UK right wingers ever made about the Labour deregulation of banks was that it did not go far enough. It was not the poor who set in motion the events that led to the banking crisis. But they are paying for it, more than any other group, indeed there are 49 deaths that flow from this government's war on the poor, while during the lifetime of this parliament the richest 1% in the UK have doubled their wealth. If you cannot see why that is totally unacceptable you have no conscience or morals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Musket Date: 28 Apr 15 - 04:07 AM Terribulus.. If you must cut and paste right wing propaganda, at least read it first and see if you understand it eh? Your final paragraph could have been written by you though, it certainly combines naive thinking with blinkered dogma. Doug. Musket does indeed have three votes. In different constituencies though, and sitting MPs from three different parties (I think.. London boroughs can be confusing.) We aren't governed by an unelected commission. Those such as UKIP who get elected to EU seats are into dereliction of duty by not participating in a constructive manner. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Apr 15 - 04:03 AM "that can only succeed in ruining the country." Th country is pretty well in tatters anyway - introducing Scotland into the equation isn't going to make a lot of difference one way or the other - not to the South anyway - it may wring a few concessions for them following the betrayal of the referendum Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Stu Date: 28 Apr 15 - 03:45 AM "I wonder how we managed before." The world was a very different place then, globalisation didn't exist and we were coming out of a period of relative prosperity that was kiboshed when OPEC hiked the oil price in 1973. "We are shackled politically and in trade to rules imposed by an un-elected Commission, who do not have our best interests at heart but those of an "ideal" and an organisation that couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery" The world is run by unelected cabals of all sorts (Bilderberg etc), at least those at the EU are answerable to our elected representatives. It's far from ideal, but what's the alternative? Our political parties are full of corporate shills and career politicians whose agendas certainly include the best interests of the people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Teribus Date: 28 Apr 15 - 03:43 AM Anyone voting for a Labour/SNP ticket is voting for a Trojan Horse that can only succeed in ruining the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Apr 15 - 03:38 AM It's become a knee jerk for to blame one government to blame the other side for the state of the economy in Britain when, in fact, there is little to choose between them - parliamentary pilitics has become a matter of maintaining a system that is increasingly failing to serve the interests of the British (Irish and American) people - a corrupt and incompetent banking system and subservient politicians who are part of that corruption and incompetence. The total absence of rational policies by the present Government is it's intentions to take up Thatcher's (the nearest Britain has ever come to electing a fascist to run the country) insane policy of selling council houses to tenants (turning homes into commodities) - talk about asking turkeys to vote for Christmas! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Doug Chadwick Date: 28 Apr 15 - 03:13 AM I've already voted by the way. Postal vote. It's not fair. Musket gets three votes! DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Richard Bridge Date: 28 Apr 15 - 02:35 AM Mither, this government is worse than that. Only a person who wants to go back to the worst conditions of the mid-1800s, the excesses of the rich, the suffering of the poor, could consider voting conservative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Musket Date: 28 Apr 15 - 01:59 AM I've tried examining your head Terribulus. Still in therapy from the experience. In an ideal world you would say that there is no real difference between the two parties since the "compassionate conservatism" under Major met Blair and Mandleson's "New Labour." However, the present conservative government (coalition? Where?) has not addressed the financial issues that led to the 2008 crash, other than blame the previous government for causing it, which not even they really believe as it was in spite of rather than because of governments, and to lower living standards whilst claiming to have raised them. On and haven't addressed the debt despite saying they have. It's all in the figures. No. The main two reasons the Tories should not be trusted with power are a combination of poor fiscal management combined with suicide pacts over our future as a trading nation. If we leave The EU, we are fucked. Ask Cameron. He is pro EU but his party isn't. Weird and awful in equal measure. I've already voted by the way. Postal vote. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 28 Apr 15 - 01:55 AM When everything is coming together.....here comes Don, to the 'rescue'... with his version of passports to concentration camps. BTW, usually it's some extreme politically radical, bullshit artist, who create the camps...and the need for them. .....Coming soon to people who don't give a crap about the overly indoctrinated, subscribers to bullshit political agendas! ...besides, Don, do you think that the UK is on the verge of creating your camps? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Teribus Date: 28 Apr 15 - 12:54 AM Given the track records in Government of those standing if anybody votes Labour or SNP then they want their heads examined. A coalition government formed by Labour and the SNP would be a recipe for disaster, considering that the the primary responsibility of the "Government" that they would form would be to look after and safeguard the long term national interests of the United Kingdom as a whole - at times that means taking unpopular decisions and neither of these "populist" clowns are capable of doing that, as has been clearly demonstrated since 1997 and 2007 respectively. "But by then it could well be Boris, as call-me-Dave will have lost credibility, having been unable to win two elections in spite of his opponents only being Brown and Miliband." - Steve Shaw Nice to see how highly Labour leaders are regarded by such a "socialist" champion and Labour supporter as Mr Shaw. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Apr 15 - 09:40 PM Somebody will be invited to form a minority government. If that government doesn't get past vital votes in the Commons there will be another election. If there's a ton of squabbling as to who will support who, and the horse-trading doesn't deliver, Cameron will probably carry on for a bit then there'll be another election in October-ish. He'll be able to blame everyone else for causing another election, which nobody really wants, and will waltz back in. But by then it could well be Boris, as call-me-Dave will have lost credibility, having been unable to win two elections in spite of his opponents only being Brown and Miliband. This hellish scenario could be avoided if Labour can miraculously hold on to a lot more Scottish seats than expected. So, Scots, who d'ye want? Cameron again did I hear you say? Great! All you have to do is vote SNP! The fixed-term deal won't prevent any of that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Van Date: 27 Apr 15 - 09:12 PM Bit of a problem. What happens if we end up with a hung parliament and no one can form a government? An Act was passed by the coalition that now means that governments are elected for a fixed term. If no government is elected what happens? |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Don Firth Date: 27 Apr 15 - 08:57 PM Jeri, is it sick to educate oneself in ethics and political science, then pay attention to the details of what's really going on, and take part in trying to make this a better world? Is it sick to take issue with those who denigrate one's efforts because they are too bloody ignorant and lazy? Who are the sick ones here? THINK about it!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Apr 15 - 07:23 PM Immigration does not push down wages, Keith. Exploitative employers push down wages. That would be largely British, largely white, largely male, largely middle-class capitalists, Keith. It does not help when we have a government that lauds "job creation" at any price: frozen wages, zero-hours contracts, inadequate part-time hours for millions, bogus apprenticeships on diddley squat per hour, job security thrown out of the window, trade union smashing, demonising benefits claimants and forcing claimants into fake self-employment. That's what pushes down wages, Keith, not people coming into the country who want to better themselves and work hard. As has been said here more than once, immigrants to this country provide a net economic benefit and always have done. I don't give a damn what Miliband says. Miliband has to suck up to the anti-immigration lobby (your sort, Keith) during an election campaign. Stop pretending that lofty principles are at stake here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:59 PM All of y'all are sick, IMO. Good job then that your humble opinion counts for Jack shit then, moderator dear. Go on, delete. You know it's too embarrassing to leave up. But we won't forget your blanket dissing, will we. You know summat, some of us try quite hard to make debating points. I never read a single one of those from you, never ever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: The Sandman Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:37 PM its not much fun being a gnome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A13FuixaquU The Gnome I want to tell you a story About a little man If I can. A gnome named Grimble Grumble. And little gnomes stay in their homes. Eating, sleeping, drinking their wine. He wore a scarlet tunic, A blue green hood, It looked quite good. He had a big adventure Amidst the grass Fresh air at last. Wining, dining, biding his time. And then one day - hooray! Another way for gnomes to say Hoooooooooray. Look at the sky, look at the river Isn't it good? Look at the sky, look at the river Isn't it good? Winding, finding places to go. And then one day - hooray! Another way for gnomes to say Hoooooooooray. Hooooooooooooooray. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Jeri Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:23 PM All of y'all are sick, IMO. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Don Firth Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:11 PM I'm not the one who's sick, pharaoh. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: akenaton Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:41 PM What brought on this fine bit of invective Don? I thought you had retired from public life :0) There I was just celebrating the most welcome return of the onetime Star of Mudcat, Little Hawk, when you spoil it all by being sick all over my computer screen! |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Don Firth Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:19 PM The three My representatives to Washington, D.C. from Washington State are Senators Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell, and the Congressional Representative from my legislative district is Jim McDermott. I helped on their campaigns, voted for them—AND keep a running check on what they do in Washington, D.C.. So far, I've been fairly satisfied with how they've done. But I'm watching carefully. It takes some effort and a bit of knowledge on my part. The kind of effort and knowledge that the aforementioned numbskulls are too squishy-brained and lazy to exert. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:08 PM Keith - Have you looked up what the net effect of migration within the EU is yet? |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 15 - 05:07 PM but you keep quoting your favorite media sources Go for it, goofus. What are my favourite media sources? You have no idea do you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Triplane Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:38 PM Oxymoron was mentioned Ox = Bull.... or Cow.... & moron is the dispenser as in Rhino-sauras |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,gillymor Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:26 PM Amen Don, Those defeatists you mention think they're enlightening us but they're really just describing an age-old struggle, "The haves against the have nots" something that's always been with us. Those who wish to exploit humanity and the earth for their own selfish ends are global now, they have more money and power and they feel more entitled than ever so what are you going to do sit at your computer and rant at people like a banshee or get out and try even harder to make your government work? I still abide by that old saw "Think globally and act locally". |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:23 PM BBC last year, Ed Miliband said the key to addressing public concerns about immigration was preventing companies abusing employment laws and ending the UK's "chronic dependency on low-skill, low-wage labour" from abroad. In an article for the Independent on Sunday, the Labour leader said it was not prejudiced to believe the immigration of high levels of cheap workers from the EU was harming the chances of some of Britain's workers. "Unless we act to change our economy, low-skill immigration risks making the problems of the cost-of-living crisis worse for those at the sharp end," he said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 27 Apr 15 - 04:15 PM Jim, we can not and do not turn away asylum seekers. No country can. That was a nasty lie you told presumably about me. Steve, Ed Milliband said that immigration pushes down the wages of the lower paid. Is he a fool? Dave, EU migrants entering Britain from outside Britain are immigrants to Britain. They are migrants within EU but immigrants to Britain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Don Firth Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:58 PM There are three people (?) in particular who are counselling defeatism: Little Honk, the pharaoh who doesn't know how to spell his own name, and, of course, Goofballupagus. "Don't all you 'so-called liberals' realize that there is no use opposing the All Powerful Fascists? The fix is in. The Philistines have won. Stop deluding yourselves. Save yourself trouble by just crawling to the nearest concentration camp and beg to be let in." That's just exactly what the Forces of Evil WANT you to think!! The statement, "You can't fight City Hall" was started by City Hall!" Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:42 PM Dave-Babes: "Errr, Much as I hate to admit it, I have been saying exactly the same thing for years. Please feel free to look it up." What?...."Spending too much time being an 'ornament' in someones garden?"........(grin) Dave-Babes, again: "Power is in the hands of the moguls who run the media who tell idiots what to think. There are some politicians who try their best but they are fighting a losing battle." ...but you keep quoting your favorite media sources..... Dave-Babes, again: "....politicians who try their best....." .....Playing to either 'side' PRETENDING to 'try their best', to steer the National dialogue...AWAY from 'what's behind the curtain'...... and I've been saying that since I first came on!...Look it up....(..and you have quite a history of adapting and adapting 'so-called liberal' talking points to your logic and point of view. (just think about it, and reflect...and you might see how deep it runs....respectfully). GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:31 PM Quite civilised does not necessarily mean offering meaningful opinions. It seems to mean, look at li'l' ol' me, how virtuous am I, guys, but, er, I have nothing to offer... |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:22 PM Hey, LH! One or two of us are quite civilised in our approach... |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,# Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:06 PM There are more blowhards on this thread than Carter had Little Liver Pills. People so insecure with their opinions that they have to shout down anyone who has a different opinion. I hope the BS section lives through it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:43 PM Errr, Much as I hate to admit it, I have been saying exactly the same thing for years. Please feel free to look it up. Power is in the hands of the moguls who run the media who tell idiots what to think. There are some politicians who try their best but they are fighting a losing battle. As to my post saying nothing, let me make it easier for you. Just fuck off and stop pretending to know what you are talking about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:30 PM HELLO LITTLE HAWK...YO HO!! Glad to see you again! Dave the Gnut, You are either blind or stupid....take your pick. Your post says absolutely nothing! The globalist corporations are running everything....and OWN most all of the politicians.....EVEN before they run! There is NOTHING 'liberal' or 'conservative' about them...just power driven. Why can't you comprehend that? Spending too much time being an 'ornament' in someones garden? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: The Sandman Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:23 PM "Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Bonzo3legs - PM Date: 27 Apr 15 - 10:42 AM Bridge being rude and obnoxious as ever, nothing changes!" but he is speaking the truth Ruskin House, situated in its own grounds on Coombe Road, Croydon, South London, has been an important centre of Britain's progressive movements for a century. It is the headquarters of Croydon's Communist, Labour, Trade Union and Co-operative movements and is itself a co-operative with shareholders from organisations across the four movements. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:17 PM LH - :-D Just be careful we don't start charging. Now, what about your very own Goofus? Am I allowed to mention the US idiots consortium? |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:13 PM Goofus - Get back to what you know best. The village is missing it's idiot. The only similarity between US and UK politics is the name. That last load of drivel was complete bollocks even by your standards. Go and play in the traffic or something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:13 PM Ah. The Vicious Old Gits Club of the UK meets for the 18 millionth time! Lovely. I'll get some finger food, a nice cool drink, and just sit back and enjoy it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:02 PM If I know, Musket, I would tell you :-) I suspect it is just the last refuge of a scoundrel, beyond patriotism. Feign righteous indignation and storm off in a huff. Saves having to come up with any sensible arguments. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:59 PM Dave the Gnut: "Goofus - Is the Mexican border part of the UK? Notice anything odd about the thread title here? Idiot." Yes, I did....and if you noticed, Oh 'Bright One' that the discussion revolved around the liberal policies vs. the more conservative ones. Over in the UK you have issues with the UK and the EU..those who favor it, and those who don't..fair enough?.....That happens to be identical to the policies and debate that goes on here, in the U.S. in regards to NAFTA(North American Free Trade Agreement) signed off by Bill Clinton, who a lot of shallow thinking idiots, regard as a 'liberal'. This bill was signed into law, at the behest of the corporations, for the same reasons that the EU was ushered in....and promoted as being a 'liberal' policy, 'for the people'. What a bunch of hogwash! So the concerns are VERY similar, and being forced on everyone, whether they know what it is really about or not. (Similar, again, to the ban on drilling on federal lands here, and sold to the public as being an 'environmental issue'.....when it really was about Kissinger, in 1979, making a deal with the Saudis, that they buy our treasury bonds, and we buy their oil, with no new drilling here(on federal lands). The 'so-called liberals' applauded that decision, (and some still do) mistakenly thinking it was about the environment. To get OUT of that agreement, for the benefit of the Banksters, the entire Mid East has been allowed to deteriorate into a chaotic bloodbath.....over what amounted to be a fraudulent lie. Other examples can EASILY be listed. The 'so-called liberal' agendas, whether they be in England, the UK, the EU, or whatever the nomenclature d'jour, is denying people their rights and identities, based on the policies of these economic institutions, and the elections, both here and England, the UK, the EU, or whatever the nomenclature d'jour, happens to be. The 'elections' in the UK, or here, are a sham...an act...to PRETEND that the people have a voice, at what is being imposed on them.....run by the same folks, without representation, or virtually ANY say, whatsoever! Get over it! So the 'heated' discussion over the election in the UK, amounts to nothing more than mental masturbation, because your elevated brand of idiocy WILL NOT address the REAL issues....only personalities and talking points which have been purposely set up as distractions Get it?..Got it?...Good! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Jim Carroll Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:49 PM Is it not ironic that those who wring their handkerchiefs and weep their crocodile tears for the poor Christians being slaughtered by Isis in Africa, The Middle East and Asia would stand at the borders with shotguns and turn them away if they came to Britain as asylum seekers? Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Musket Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:36 PM Well at least Nigel noted my point that we are part of The EU.. I'm jealous Dave, really bleedin' jealous. How can you be the worst person Akenaton has encountered when all three Muskets go out of our way to be the opposite of anything and everything he can or does stand for? 😂😂😂 Yes, there is transfer of labour within EU states, hence it was easier for me when it made business sense to be based in Ireland, Germany and Italy at particular times. It allowed us to offer a promotion to a quality manager in the Italy factory to our operation in The UK, which he accepted, and moving was as simple as moving from Manchester to Sheffield. Where xenophobes fall down in their rants and lies is to assume British people are being disadvantaged in the job market for being British. These days, I know a bit more about healthcare than engineering, and it is a fact that the level of training for doctors in some Eastern European countries is not as good as many other countries, especially those that mirror the British medical school model, which includes most Commonwealth countries and to a degree, U.S. and Western European countries. But here's the thing.. You don't have to employ them if they are not up to the mark. There is a lot of twaddle doing the rounds that we have to employ doctors and nurses that wouldn't have qualified under our system. Not so. There are many Eastern European doctors at the trust where I last was involved, and one failed to be given a permanent contract at the end of the trial period. In the meantime, The Daily Ma*l was saying we couldn't sack them... The others by the way are excellent. The best in a bad training regime overlap the worst in a good one. On the other side of the coin, the shortage in general does mean some temporary or locum posts are being filled by doctors who have restrictions on their practice until they have demonstrated competence through appraisal. That is an issue, but not one that any immigration regime could or would address. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:09 PM Dave our engagement on Mudcat is at an end Thank fuck for that. Now, will you leave the rest of us in peace too? Goofus - Is the Mexican border part of the UK? Notice anything odd about the thread title here? Idiot. Nigel - absolutely. As I keep saying, free movement of labour in the EU is not unregulated immigration. As to the unregulated transfer of workers. Well, partly true. There is unregulated movement of people within the EU, workers or not. The only proviso is that they have to have a passport from an EU country. As such, it may not be regulated but it is carefully monitored. Which is how we know what the net effect of that movement is and, by the lack of comment from those who say migrants should be stopped from entering Britain, I guess they know as well as I that the net effect paints a different picture from the one they are portraying. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: akenaton Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:07 PM "That there is unregulated transfer of workers from certain states of the EU to the UK is (I believe) true." As far as I and I suppose Keith, is concerned, that was a "given" Nigel. However, thank you for clarifying the point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:01 PM That was to Goofus. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:00 PM Yes, well you don't mind exploiting them in the good times, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Nigel Parsons Date: 27 Apr 15 - 12:00 PM There is unregulated immigration from EU. That statement is being debated, with some claiming it's true, and some taking the contrary position. Maybe people are arguing semantics (without making it clear what it is they say is untrue). There is not unregulated immigration from EU. We are currently part of the EU so there cannot be immigration "from EU" to UK. That there is unregulated transfer of workers from certain states of the EU to the UK is (I believe) true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Apr 15 - 11:54 AM Dave the Gnut: "Unregulated immigration is a myth." Visit the Mexican border. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: election uk From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Apr 15 - 11:49 AM Vast numbers of unskilled workers in this country are paid the minimum wage and 'twas ever thus. Immigrants cannot legally be the reason for the suppression of wages because employers are not allowed to pay below the legal minimum wage. Of course, employers can and do employ people on temporary, seasonal, part-time and zero-hour contracts, not to speak of on those bogus apprenticeships. Many will find ways of paying as little as possible. That will happen with or without immigrants, and the problem is caused by unscrupulous employers and the unregulated nature of employment contracts in this country (lest we forget, a situation that has been encouraged by the Tories in order to artificially suppress the unemployment statistics, along with forcing former benefits claimants to become "self-employed", whether there's work or not). The first bloody great big clue that this charade exists is the fact that productivity in this country is stubbornly stuck in the ditch, not reflecting in the slightest the Tory-constructed illusion that there are more people "in work" than ever and we've created over a million jobs, blah blah. As for immigrants taking up the jobs of our yoofs, employers have been complaining for years that they can't find the young people with the right skills. So whose fault is that then? |