BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:39 PM

Pollster Scott Rasmussen '86 Has Yet to See Convention Bounce for Barack Obama

Scott Rasmussen August 28, 2008, Greencastle, Ind. - "More Republicans support McCain than Democrats support Obama," Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports and 1986 graduate of DePauw University, tells the Boston Herald. Rasmussen's latest national poll, updated daily, shows Democrat Barack Obama leading Republican John McCain by a slim point -- 45% to 44%. The two candidates are deadlocked at 47% each when voters who were leaning toward a candidate are factored in.

The Herald's Hillary Chabot writes, "Obama and McCain are neck and neck in the national polls despite three days of glowing speeches about the Illinois senator during a highly publicized convention...

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=22006

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:59 PM

DENVER, Aug 28 (Reuters) - A top contender to be Republican John McCain's vice presidential running mate abruptly canceled appointments in Denver on Thursday but it was unclear whether he was McCain's choice.

Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, in Denver to help provide counterattacks against the Democratic Party convention, canceled participation in a news conference and other appearances, a Republican official said.

It was unclear whether the cancellation had any significance to McCain's vice presidential search.

Pawlenty, 47, was believed to have been on McCain's short list for vice presidential running mates, a list that also included former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who lost to McCain in the primary battle, and independent Democratic Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut.

A Republican official said McCain has made up his mind on his No. 2 and was expected to appear with his running mate at a rally on Friday in Dayton, Ohio.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:21 PM

Well, Ms Chabot is purely an ass of the first order. The convention was glowing with unity and single-voiced determination by the end of the last speech last night. Every whisper of discord was swept away by the truly remarkable demonstrations of statesmanship of President and Ms. Clinton and Vice-President nominee Biden, as well as Senator Kerry. There was not a dry eye or a discordant voice in the place. As for timing, twenty women took the stage last night, all from the House of Representatives,on the anniversary of the first Convention at which women could vote, and one by one stood up and said their stories in support of their nominee; meanwhile, Presidential-nominee Obama give his acceptance speech on the anniversary of Martin King's "I Have a Dream" speech.

So I think your sources must really be mud-suckers, bottom crawlers, and bile-spewers, Sawz. Not that this surprises me, as you seem to often run with that class of thought yourself.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 28 Aug 08 - 06:07 PM

The above is mine. I was distracted because when I paste into the box. sometimes dittos and apostrophes turn into slanted characters. Then when it is submitted they turn into weird â€쳌 characters. Or maybe it is just my machine.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 04:33 PM

Bobert:

"The McCain campaign said it asked Secret Service to look into the events. Campaign spokesman Brian Rogers said it "found that no one from the campaign was involved."
      Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said two other Florida reporters were removed along with Price and any other reporters who weren't with the national press should have been removed as well. At all campaign events, national and local press are separated for logistical reasons."




Blame the secret Service. You know, US Government

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 04:30 PM

Well, that's great... Maybe after McCain gets US into his first needless war he will apologize...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 04:26 PM

Black reporter booted from McCain rally

By BRENDAN FARRINGTON – API Aug 5, 2008

"TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) — A newspaper has asked John McCain's campaign why a black reporter assigned to cover a rally was singled out by security and told to leave a backstage area.
      Stephen Price, a reporter for the Tallahassee Democrat, was among four Florida capital press corps reporters behind the scenes at a Panama City rally Friday when a Secret Service agent approached and asked if he were with the national media traveling with McCain. Price said no, and the agent told him he had to leave. Price said he then pointed out that there were other state reporters in the same area, but was still told to leave. The other reporters were white.
      A Panama City police officer quickly approached with his hand on his holster and asked what the problem was, Price said. At the same time, Palm Beach Post reporter Dara Kam came to Price's defense and was told she also had to leave, Price said.
      The other two reporters, Alex Leary of the St. Petersburg Times and Marc Caputo of The Miami Herald, weren't removed.
      Caputo, however, said that initially he also was told he had to leave the area.
      "Security was tight and was a bit over-controlling, which is par for the course at these events. And, as par for the course, I tried to get near the candidate when I saw another reporter there (Alex Leary). Security tried to throw me out, but I found a McCain staffer I knew and the person vouched for me," Caputo said in an e-mail to The Associated Press.
      Leary said nobody questioned why he was in the area. He added that he didn't see the exchange Price had with security.
      The McCain campaign said it asked Secret Service to look into the events. Campaign spokesman Brian Rogers said it "found that no one from the campaign was involved."
      Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said two other Florida reporters were removed along with Price and any other reporters who weren't with the national press should have been removed as well. At all campaign events, national and local press are separated for logistical reasons.
      "Race played absolutely no role in any actions taken by our employees or anybody else in this case," Zahren said.
      McCain's campaign called Price and Bob Gabordi, the newspaper's executive editor, on Tuesday and apologized.
      "I accept the apology," Price said. "I definitely wish I was never singled out. I came up there to do a story, that's all I wanted to do is write a story."
      The campaign said McCain personally would call Price in a few days, according to the newspaper.
      "It's the right thing for the McCain campaign to do," Gabordi said. "Our issue remains with the Secret Service agent. His actions are still a problem. The senator's campaign has done the right thing and we appreciate that."
      Price had said he could think of no other reason why he was approached other than his race. He said he had to show his media credentials to get into the area, and that he was there for several minutes before being removed.
      "It was just a really crazy situation. We were being carted out of there and everyone was looking," Price said, adding that he felt upset and humiliated."

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:53 PM

Where are your numbers Amos? BTUs in BTUs out etc.

As usual Amos, the expert, questions things rather authoritatively but can't produce jack shit in the way of facts and figures, just his opinion which is always right just like his "summary justice" and smart bomb initiatives.

"its better to burn a tree and not take sumthin outa the ground to burn"

Welll weeeellll wel. Il be hornswoggled but I do believe that as long as the tree is alive it is able to inhale the CO2 that the stuff in the ground produces when it burns.

But if the tree is burning, it has ceased inhaling CO2 and is now producing CO2 just like the stuff in the ground would except there is one less tree to inhale CO2.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:22 PM

...also, fusion, not fision, in reactors, safer, lest waste in the cooling....electro magnetism.....hydrogen/water conversion
All could be done, right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:56 PM

Another thing is that the costs are expected to drop radically as the infrastructure is put in place. Another things is that those figures are way exaggerated. Another is that it does take energy to produce biofuels, it also takes energy to produce fossil fuels. They don't refine themselves. But like biofuels, like fossil fuels, are often produced using waste energy from the refining process.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:44 PM

I think those numbers are a bit superficial. For one thing, I doubt the procurement costs of procuring and refining oil are being used by comparison, which totally distorts the relative merit of biofuel. For another thing, there are other ways to produce biofuel from biomass than burning fossil fuels to do so. SOlar thermal concentration is one.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:53 PM

Momma says that iffin ya keep saying dum thangs lahk that, they gonna kick you out of school!

Iffin the carbon is in a tree, eventually it will go back into the atmosphere. Momma says global warming is a long term problem. We gotta think about the next few hundred years as much as the next ten. So momma says its better to burn a tree and not take sumthin outa the ground to burn.

Iffin ya never try to larn nothin then they ain't even gonna let you ride the short bus Forrest.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: pdq
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:40 PM

And the other 5% by Boy Scouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:29 PM

Hey, 95% of all forest fires are caused by trees.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:19 AM

Yes Amos Clean burning of wood still means combining carbon and oxygen into CO2.

"if you ad one and don't take none away the total gets bigger"

That is why cutting down the rain forest adds to the CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

Cutting down a tree that is converting CO2 adds CO2 and burning the tree or alcohol made from it produces more CO2. 1 + 1 = 2

How's cornohol boondoggle coming along? How much energy does it take to make a gallon of ethanol?

Ah Don't see no hans in tha air.

ENERGY INPUT........131,000 BTUs
Energy in Ethanol....77,000 BTUs

Obama voted for the ethanol mandate. "As a senator from a corn-growing state, Obama will have no problem on the ethanol issue and can tout his credentials on this score with a clear conscience," said Peverill Squire, who teaches politics at the University of Iowa.

July 5, 2005
Cornell ecologist's study finds that producing ethanol and biodiesel from corn and other crops is not worth the energy
By Susan S. Lang

Chris Hallman/University Photography
Ecologist David Pimentel, shown here pumping gas, says that his analysis shows that producing ethanol uses more energy than the resulting fuel generates. Copyright © Cornell University

ITHACA, N.Y. -- Turning plants such as corn, soybeans and sunflowers into fuel uses much more energy than the resulting ethanol or biodiesel generates, according to a new Cornell University and University of California-Berkeley study.

"There is just no energy benefit to using plant biomass for liquid fuel," says David Pimentel, professor of ecology and agriculture at Cornell. "These strategies are not sustainable."

Pimentel and Tad W. Patzek, professor of civil and environmental engineering at Berkeley, conducted a detailed analysis of the energy input-yield ratios of producing ethanol from corn, switch grass and wood biomass as well as for producing biodiesel from soybean and sunflower plants. Their report is published in Natural Resources Research (Vol. 14:1, 65-76).

In terms of energy output compared with energy input for ethanol production, the study found that:

    * corn requires 29 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced;
    * switch grass requires 45 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced; and
    * wood biomass requires 57 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

In terms of energy output compared with the energy input for biodiesel production, the study found that:

    * soybean plants requires 27 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced, and
    * sunflower plants requires 118 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced.

In assessing inputs, the researchers considered such factors as the energy used in producing the crop (including production of pesticides and fertilizer, running farm machinery and irrigating, grinding and transporting the crop) and in fermenting/distilling the ethanol from the water mix. Although additional costs are incurred, such as federal and state subsidies that are passed on to consumers and the costs associated with environmental pollution or degradation, these figures were not included in the analysis.

"The United State desperately needs a liquid fuel replacement for oil in the near future," says Pimentel, "but producing ethanol or biodiesel from plant biomass is going down the wrong road, because you use more energy to produce these fuels than you get out from the combustion of these products."

Although Pimentel advocates the use of burning biomass to produce thermal energy (to heat homes, for example), he deplores the use of biomass for liquid fuel. "The government spends more than $3 billion a year to subsidize ethanol production when it does not provide a net energy balance or gain, is not a renewable energy source or an economical fuel. Further, its production and use contribute to air, water and soil pollution and global warming," Pimentel says. He points out that the vast majority of the subsidies do not go to farmers but to large ethanol-producing corporations.

"Ethanol production in the United States does not benefit the nation's energy security, its agriculture, economy or the environment," says Pimentel. "Ethanol production requires large fossil energy input, and therefore, it is contributing to oil and natural gas imports and U.S. deficits." He says the country should instead focus its efforts on producing electrical energy from photovoltaic cells, wind power and burning biomass and producing fuel from hydrogen conversion.

    * An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. But planting, growing and harvesting that much corn requires about 140 gallons of fossil fuels .

    * The energy economics get worse at the processing plants, where the grain is crushed and fermented. As many as three distillation steps are needed to separate the 8 percent ethanol from the 92 percent water. Additional treatment and energy are required to produce the 99.8 percent pure ethanol for mixing with gasoline.
    * Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTU. "Put another way", Pimentel says, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU".

    * Fossil fuels-not ethanol-are used to produce ethanol", Pimentel says. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it, either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price".

    * Most economic analyses of corn-to-ethanol production overlook the costs of environmental damages, which Pimentel says should add another 23 cents per gallon. "Corn production in the U.S. erodes soil about 12 times faster than the soil can be reformed, and irrigating corn mines groundwater 25 percent faster than the natural recharge rate of ground water. The environmental system in which corn is being produced is being rapidly degraded. Corn should not be considered a renewable resource for ethanol energy production, especially when human food is being converted into ethanol".

    * The approximately $3 billion a year in current federal and state subsidies (mainly to large corporations) for ethanol production are not the only costs to consumers, the Cornell scientist observes. Subsidized corn results in higher prices for meat, milk and eggs because about 70 percent of corn grain is fed to livestock and poultry in the United States. Increasing ethanol production would further inflate corn prices, Pimentel says, noting: "In addition to paying tax dollars for ethanol subsidies, consumers would be paying significantly higher food prices in the marketplace".

    * Nickels and dimes aside, some drivers still would rather see their cars fueled by farms in the Midwest than by oil wells in the Middle East, Pimentel acknowledges, so he calculated the amount of corn needed to power an automobile:

    * The average U.S. automobile, traveling 10,000 miles a year on pure ethanol (not a gasoline-ethanol mix) would need about 852 gallons of the corn-based fuel. This would take 11 acres to grow, based on net ethanol production. This is the same amount of cropland required to feed seven Americans.

    * If all the automobiles in the United States were fueled with 100 percent ethanol, a total of about 97 percent of U.S. land area would be needed to grow the corn feedstock. Corn would cover nearly the total land area of the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 08:34 PM

Yeah, Sawzaw,

Its true.

Obama helped prevent shrub from trying to load the commission with his partisans.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 08:13 PM

Well, well, well...

Yeah, like I said, burning ain't good unless, of course, it's in a small pipe you hide in the freezer... But nevermind that stuff...

The problem I have is when folks try to over-generalize other folks ideas... Like burnin' trees ain't the centerpiece of the Obama enrgy policy and more than proper tire inflation... This ain't nuthin' but partisan wranglin' far as thisd ol' gillbilly can see...

As fir campaign finance... It's till broke all to heck an' back... It is screwed up... Ain't no one person's fault but what LH calls the $y$tem... It is the largest problem the US government faces... Not terrorism... But corruption... And the worst part about this corrupt $y$tem is that it's gonna take a Trojan Horse to fix it...

Is Obama the Trojan Horse??? I don't know... I do know that John McCain ain't!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 07:32 PM

Actually, Sawz, he did not say anything about cutting trees down. He said that among other processes and resources (which he enumerated) clean burning of wood could also be considered.

1. The word clean must have escaped your attention, or you have no concept how it could be done.

2. The word wood, in your mind, means cutting down rees. But there are many other sources of wood, including chips and sawdust from other lumber processes, shrubs, and recycled wood to name a few.

Wake up and think in English, and all will be well.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 07:15 PM

Welll welll welllllllllllll wel welll wel:

During a January Democratic debate in Las Vegas, Obama boasted that "part of the reason that you know who's bundling money for various candidates is because of a law I passed this year, which says: Lobbyists, if you are taking money from anybody and putting it together and then giving it to a member of Congress, that has to be disclosed."

In fact, the bundling provision to which Obama was referring — and which his campaign bragged about in television ads — will not be implemented in time for the 2008 elections, partly because Obama led a partisan confirmation battle that crippled the agency charged with implementing the new rule.

McCain has voluntarily disclosed the names, addresses and occupations of his lobbyist bundlers (which will be required by Obama's yet-to-be implemented provision) and his other bundlers. But Obama, who does not take money from lobbyists, only lists the names and addresses of his bundlers. Plus his claim is untrue.

I — of all of the candidates here — have actually taken away the power of lobbyists. Part of the reason that you know who's bundling money for various candidates is because of a law I passed this year which says: Lobbyists, if you're taking money from anybody and putting together and giving it to a member of congress, that has to be disclosed."

Obama was among the leading proponents of a provision requiring disclosure to the FEC of contributions bundled by lobbyists to congressional and presidential candidates. And the provision was included in the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act," which President Bush signed into law in September.

But the commission lacks the votes necessary to take any official actions, including implementing — let alone enforcing — the law, rendering it effectively moot. That's because Senate Democrats, led by Obama, blocked the confirmation of four nominees to the six-seat agency, leaving it without a quorum.

Obama and Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) technically put a hold on the Senate confirmation of only one nominee: Hans von Spakovsky. He has been accused of diluting minority voting power during an earlier stint as a Justice Department lawyer.

But Senate Republicans demanded that all four nominees (two Democrats, two Republicans) be voted on as a group — the way confirmations have traditionally gone for the commission, which by statute consists of three appointees from each party.

The derailing of von Spakovsky bolstered Obama's civil rights bona fides. It pleased Democratic and black activists, because it dovetailed with their concerns about politicization of the Justice Department under President Bush.

But the subsequent stalemate has concerned advocates of campaign finance regulation. They warn that without the FEC functioning as a watchdog, candidates and outside groups are likely to push the bounds of the rules to pour cash into a 2008 presidential race expected to easily eclipse $1 billion.

Obama stressed the importance of the FEC in an October op-ed published in the Chicago Defender, a prominent black newspaper.

"So it goes without saying that the FEC needs strong, impartial leadership that will promote integrity in our election system," Obama wrote. "Hans von Spakovsky is not the right person for this job, and I strongly oppose his nomination."

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 07:15 PM

Stupid is as stupid does.

Momma says that burning oil, coal or natural gas contributes more to global warming than burning trees. Momma knows that if you ad one and don't take none away the total gets bigger and she knows when you add one then take it away agin the total stays the same. Momma is a whiz at first grade level arithmetic!

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 06:41 PM

Yes, it is stupid to turn trees into fuel.

Letter being sent to questionable contributors by McCAIN

August 7, 2008
Dear ____:
Due to recent news reports, we are writing to remind you of the legal requirements for making contributions to federal candidates.
John McCain 2008 is prohibited by federal law from accepting contributions from corporations, government contractors, or foreign nationals (persons who are not US citizens or permanent residents). We may only accept contributions made by individuals from their own funds. Such contributions may not be reimbursed to you by any other person or entity.
We greatly appreciate your support and financial contribution. However, if your contribution does not meet all of these requirements, please contact me at (703)-650-5624 or [e-mail] immediately so that we can arrange a refund of your contribution.
Sincerely,
MAC

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 06:37 PM

Momma said that trees are alive, jest lahk the birds and the bees an all other gawds creatures. She said everthang thet's alive will die, cept fer Dick Cheney.

She also said that when the tree dies ye can plant another tree to take it's place. Funny thing though, carbon from an oil well don't suck itself back into the hot boiling hell from which it came. But that's what Dick Cheney is going to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: PoppaGator
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:58 PM

If we can get off the elementary science discussion...

Thanks to Bobert for cluing us in about Harry Sargeant III.

After reading about his efforts, I had to ask myself how much I'd have to be paid to write a $2,300 check in support of a political campaign.

If I really didn't care one wayor another about the outcome, I'd probably do it for as little as $2,500, and certainly for three grand or so.

If I were being asked to stealth-contribute to candidates of opposing parties, as Sargeant persuaded Floridians to do for Giuliani and Clinton during the primaries, I wouldn't hesitate, assuming I were being paid any extra bucks at all.

But the hardest question to answer ~ how much would I have to be paid to funnel a contribution to a candidate I wanted to lose? I'd like to say I would not pass along a $2,300 contribution tio McCain for President for any amount of money, but given enough incentive, I just might. The only question is how much: $5,000? Maybe... $10,000? Probably...

I found it very interesting that so many of the unlikely contributors mentioned in the story were unregistered voters, very busily running their own small businesses, with obviously Arabic names. What's that about?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:48 PM

This whole tree thing is completely stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 05:26 PM

Why would a tree stop growing?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 04:08 PM

Momma said "Forrest, yer special, peple cain tel yuh that most species of trees don't live fer thousands of years. Peple kin tail ya thet it is stoopid te conflate every tidbit ye have heard in yer life into to one big dumb ignorat joke. Ye don't haf ta lissin, ye kain be proud of yer ignorance. Ye kain laf at simple math and simple chemistry as if it never egg-sisted, Cuz Forrest, yer a Republican!"

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 03:04 PM

"What happens when the trees stop growing? "

Why would a tree stop growing?

There are trees that are over a thousand years old and still converting CO2 to O2.

Destruction of the rain forest is contributing to the greenhaus effect but Obama says we should cut trees and make fuel out of them?

That makes me laugh.

The ultimate goal is to stop burning carbon based fuels altogether. Whatever money spent on developing this temporary source of energy should be spent on long term fix. Wind, solar, nuclear or hydroelectric.

In the mean time use the oil and gas we already have.

Actually the ultimate goal for energy generation is the Tokamak.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 01:58 PM

I always liked Bubba's buttOX the best

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:57 PM

I have to say, I am disheartened. I have been wracking my brain trying to find simpler terms to Describe it.

But y'all have given me an idear!

Momma said life is like a box of chocolates. But a box can only hold so many chocolates. So iffin ya want to carry yall's chocolates in a box, and when you eat a chocolate you put another one back in then your chocolate box is a gonna be fine and dandy. But if you put too many chocolates from another box into your'n chocolate box then the flies is a gonna get at your chocolates and they's a gonna melt in the sun.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:31 PM

Yeah...goes together like peas and carrots

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:24 PM

More a science lesson for Forest Gump

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:21 PM

pdq, if folks wouldn't spout things that were so obviously uninformed of a basic principle of chemistry, then there wouldn't be a need to explain it in such simple terms.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: pdq
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 12:19 PM

This thread is beginning to sound like a science lecture from Forrest Gump.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 11:57 AM

It is pretty simple isn't it? How do people not understand such simple basic things? Our education system seems to have so let down so many Republican leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 08:40 AM

Simple chemistry. The carbon in a tree (or any other plant) comes from the CO2 in the atmosphere. When it's burned, the carbon that's burned is returned to the atmosphere as CO2. Net change in atmospheric CO2 = zero.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 07:54 AM

This is getting too silly! A mind is a terrible thing to waste!!
Try this >>>>   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmlLqkUHd0

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,J
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 01:45 AM

>>When we cut the trees they are no longer removing the CO2. We have to wait for more trees to grow.

When we burn the fossil fuels in the interim while the other energy sources are being developed, the trees are still growing and consuming CO2.<<<

What happens when the trees stop growing?

They die and rot and CO2 goes into the atmosphere. Or if there is a forest fire. The trees burn and the CO2 is released into the atmosphere. Eventually, the CO2 from trees, is going to end up in the atmosphere.

Do you feel like an idiot yet? Because you should.

If we leave the hydrocarbons in the ground. The carbon will stay in the ground and the trees will NEVER have to remove it.

Why are you so eager to look foolish. You could be nice about it you could be polite. But you seem to like to scream things that have no basis in fact.

Fast growing trees will remove the carbon, then we burn the trees, or turn them to ethanol and then burn them. If that's all were were burning we could do it forever. Without global warming. That's why they call it sustainable.

Go out and learn something for gosh sakes! Stop listening to the Republican Campaigns. The don't tell the truth. Listening to them will   make you ignorant. You don't want to be ignorant do you? Go out and learn something. Start with basic science.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 07:50 PM

"to be able to snark on any excuse"

Amos:

Please explain how burning hydrocarbons does not produce CO2

And again, your arrogance and superiority complex is showing.

I did exactly what you asked me to do.

"If we grow wood and burn it, we take CO2 out of the air by growing the wood"

When we cut the trees they are no longer removing the CO2. We have to wait for more trees to grow.

When we burn the fossil fuels in the interim while the other energy sources are being developed, the trees are still growing and consuming CO2.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 07:47 PM

Get to Work, McCain!

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 06:55 PM

>>From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 06:19 PM

"If you burn trees then grow more trees then you are recycling carbon that is already in the biosphere"

There is too much CO2 in the biosphere is causing global warming because of the greenhouse effect.

If we develop solar, wind, nuclear and hydroelectric energy production and discontinue burning hydrocarbon fuels it will reduce the amount of CO2 and global warming.<<<

Yes both your statements are true. But modern society runs on energy and no one wants to give up their car or heating and cooling their house or car.

So for now, we have to burn something. It will take a long time to develop wind and solar and nuclear. There isn't much hope for Hydropower being much help. Most of the good rivers on this continent have already been developed. For now and for a long time in the future, we have to burn something. There is just no way around that.

If we grow wood and burn it, we take CO2 out of the air by growing the wood, then put it back into the air when we burn the wood.

If we burn fossil fuels we take carbon out of the ground and pump it into the air.

A promising technology is carbon sequestering. That's where you take the carbon dioxide from the smoke stacks and pump it into the ground. The reason we don't do that is because it would at to the cost of electricity and the utilities do not think people want to pay for that.

>>How much oxygen does the oil and gas laying in the ground emit?

Very little I would say. They are called hydrocarbons because they are made of hydrogen and carbon. There may be some oxygen in the coal seams and oil domes, but the amount is certainly not significant.

The amount of oxygen is also not factor in the global warming or energy debate. Oxygen is not a greenhouse gas and the percentage of oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere is not changed all that much by burning carbon. Presently oxygen is 20.946% of our atmosphere carbon dioxide is only .0383%.

I think that Obama's energy program is not nearly enough neither are the steps he want to takes to cut carbon emission. But he is light years ahead of McCain. More importantly he has the ability and the will to educate people on these issues and persuade them to do what is required.

If you care about the environment Obama is the clear choice.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 06:37 PM

Algae seems to be the most promising way forward for producing biofuel. Potentially vastly more efficient than switching food production such as corn to producing ethanol, and keeps the food available for hungry people.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 06:36 PM

I agree... We definately need to invest in cleaner energy production... Just because trees are considered renewable doesn't change the fact that it's still burning and there is nothing good to say about burning anything... Okay, I might burn a little evidence now and then but that's a different story...

But here's the rub... McStraightTalker is in Big Oil's pocket, ahhhhhh, Big Time... Don't think so??? Google up Harry Sargeant III for just the tip of the iceburg...

I'm not sayin' that Obama doesn't have a few bucks coming his way from Big Oil but it's chump change compared to what McSraightTalker is takin' in...

(Well, Bobert... Obama is threatenin' to put a windfall profit tax on Big Oil... Waht would you expect???)

Just what we are seein'... 'Cept 99% of the voters couldn't tell you who Harry Sargeant III is... And McStraightTalker wants to keep it that way...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 06:26 PM

Nice job PoppaGator

I guess that I should have used a link though.

The latest polls are here Realclear polls. with graphic and updated every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 06:19 PM

"If you burn trees then grow more trees then you are recycling carbon that is already in the biosphere"

There is too much CO2 in the biosphere is causing global warming because of the greenhouse effect.

If we develop solar, wind, nuclear and hydroelectric energy production and discontinue burning hydrocarbon fuels it will reduce the amount of CO2 and global warming.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 04:07 PM

Burning hydrocarbon fuels produce CO2 regardless of how clean it is burned.

"we will reduce our dangerous carbon emissions"
   
"Businesses will need to find ways to emit less carbon dioxide."

Trees and all plants take in CO2 and emit oxygen.

How much oxygen does the oil and gas laying in the ground emit?

The way to reduce CO2 is with solar, nuclear, hydroelectric and wind, not by turning wood into hydrocarbon fuel.

I am sorry but all you guys can think about is getting a chunk of change from Exxon and Obama is dangling the carrot to buy votes.

There is a tire pressure monitoring system on some autos. Why not make that mandatory on all new cars immediately?

With this kind of rhetoric and hype, the Democrats will loose this election solely on their failed energy policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 03:38 PM

Let's try JtS's cur-and-paste in a monospaced font; the columns might line up. (The HTML commend is "TT.")

Poll       Date       Sample       Obama (D)       McCain (R)       Spread

RCP Average       07/23 - 08/04       --       47.3       44.5       Obama +2.8
AP-Ipsos         07/31 - 08/04 833 RV       48       42       Obama +6.0
Gallup Tracking       08/02 - 08/04       2674 RV       47       43       Obama +4.0
Rasmussen Tracking       08/02 - 08/04       3000 LV       46       47       McCain +1.0
CNN       07/27 - 07/29       914 RV       51       44       Obama +7.0
USA Today/Gallup       07/25 - 07/27       791 LV       45       49       McCain +4.0
Pew Research       07/23 - 07/27       1241 RV       47       42       Obama +5.0

Nahh, that don't git it. The source muct have been littered with "Tab" commands. I'll try again, adding some spaces manually:

Poll               Date            Sample    Obama (D) McCain (R) Spread

RCP Average       07/23 - 08/04   --       47.3      44.5    Obama +2.8
AP-Ipsos          07/31 - 08/04   833 RV    48       42      Obama +6.0
Gallup Tracking    08/02 - 08/04   2674 RV   47       43      Obama +4.0
Rasmussen Tracking 08/02 - 08/04   3000 LV   46       47      McCain +1.0
CNN                07/27 - 07/29   914 RV    51       44      Obama +7.0
USA Today/Gallup   07/25 - 07/27   791 LV    45       49      McCain +4.0
Pew Research       07/23 - 07/27   1241 RV   47       42      Obama +5.0

Well, I can't get it perfect, but close enough to read...

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 01:25 PM

Sawzaw

If you burn coal, you add more carbon to the atmosphere.

If you burn trees then grow more trees then you are recycling carbon that is already in the biosphere. That's why they call biofuels sustainable energy.

In general it is bad to burn large, old growth trees. Its worse to replace trees with crops. It is worse still to replace trees with pasture. But for releasing carbon into the air, burning fossil fuel burning is the worst.

Fear not! Environmental education is taking place in the schools. It may be too late for you. But your grand children will probably be able to speak very intelligently on this subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 01:02 PM

Instead of shooting off your mouth from the hip, so to speak, why not find out what he means?

Are you aware that there are several fast-growing plant varieties that have wood in them?

Did you not understand the expression "clean-burning"?

Or are you just so delighted to be able to snark on any excuse at all that you have taken to making them up?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 06 Aug 08 - 11:38 AM

Well well well well weeeeell weeellllllllllll wel well.

"lead the way by turning wood into clean-burning fuel."

Aaahhh don't trees turn CO2 inta Oxygen? And don't burning any kind o' carbin based fule make more CO2?

Looks like tha air iz leakin out o' tha hot air express.

Where can I git me one o' them Mac tar gages?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:37 PM

You can go here

realclearpolitics.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:24 PM

Sorry, but that cut and paste hurts my eyes!

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 10:42 PM

The latest Polls from Real Clear.
Obama's doing OK.

He's actually doing much better on the electoral Map.


Poll        Date        Sample        Obama (D)        McCain (R)        Spread

RCP Average        07/23 - 08/04        --        47.3        44.5        Obama +2.8
AP-Ipsos        07/31 - 08/04 833 RV        48        42        Obama +6.0
Gallup Tracking        08/02 - 08/04        2674 RV        47        43        Obama +4.0
Rasmussen Tracking        08/02 - 08/04        3000 LV        46        47        McCain +1.0
CNN        07/27 - 07/29        914 RV        51        44        Obama +7.0
USA Today/Gallup        07/25 - 07/27        791 LV        45        49        McCain +4.0
Pew Research        07/23 - 07/27        1241 RV        47        42        Obama +5.0

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 09:36 PM

So, after pandering to the youth he's losing young voters??.....what do they know, that us ol' fogies stuck in menopauses, don't? Here you guys are all pumped for your 'media celeb hero' and the youth, to who was his 'hip audience' got bored...probably went back to their video games.....

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: pdq
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:51 PM

Last poll I saw had McCain 45%, Obama 44%, Nader 2% and Barr 2%.

That would leave about 9% "undecided", but they were majority leaning McCain, "the safe candidate".

Two kickers: the Catholic vote was 20% up in the McCain camp and the young voters were getting bored by Obama. Considering how huge the Mexican-Catholic vote is in the seven Western states, this race is over. Turn in yer Wilkie button and grab a beer.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:01 PM

Polls before Labor Day are meaningless, Rigs... You know that... Actually, I think that polls won't mean too much after Labor Day...
Except the big poll in Novemeber, of course...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:37 PM

Well, the way the polls are going, Obama is headed for defeat, and Rosa Parks was in too big a hurry to sit down anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:20 PM

Well, DV, I just can't quite get over your initial post about being "very concerned" about Obama loosing??? Excuse me if from that post I assumed that you might actually, ahhhhhh, be concerned that Obam might loose???

Silly me...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 03:24 PM

Oh, the wheels on the bus go floop floop floop etc.

Oh, McCain on the bus goes "Uh, uh, uh" etc.

Oh, the talk on the bus goes not so straight etc.

No seat on the bus for Rosa Parks etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:22 PM

Excuse me please, "presuming".

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:19 PM

DV,

Didn't you say that "We" were ought to stick to talking about the candidates?

Now its back to Bobert "assuming" things about YOU.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:13 PM

Again, Donuel I am not the topic here and nor is Amos. Let's keep to the topic, the candidates.

People are free to criticize both candidates and their positions, without people casting aspersions on their motives for doing so.

In a functioning democracy, it is a citizen's duty to be both well informed, and to see all political leaders with a skeptic's eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:09 PM

Bobert, you said:

"Lastly, if you indeed want McCain to lose I'd like to see where you have made some level of commitment to the Obama campaign"

Why do you presume that if someone doesn't want McCain, they have to commit to working for and/or supporting Obama?

It is perfectly legitimate to criticize BOTH candidates, and want neither. Millions of Americans feel and act this way in this election, and in every election going back most of their lifetimes!

I couldn't have supported either candidate (had I been old enough to vote in it) in the Ford vs Carter election either.

And?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:08 PM

I once saw a video of an elephant tender with broom and pail who unfortunatly was sweeping up behind an elephant when the elephant backed up suddenly.
The man's head got stuck in the elephants anus and was extracted only with help from another tender.

The unfortunate tender would certainly have a unique description of the elephant which is far different from an old friend of the elephant who could see in the elephant's eyes a loving recognition and respect.

We all have our points of view. Some from above, in front or from behind and inside.

Sometimes a person will retreat into saying that "it is my opinion" but that will not mean that the opinion is true or false, sacrosanct or base, meaningful or nonsense.

Albert would back me up when I say it depends upon the relative point of view of the observer.

Opinions are not sacred or inately honorable in any regard but intentional misrepresentations defile the speaker and the audience.

My condolences go out to you if you were an unfortunate tender. My ire goes out to those who would intentionally lie and distort their description of the elephant in the room.

Amos takes a pov that he supports with facts and figures while I have a pov of a socialogic overview.
I see another pov at work here which only seems to use the oldest propoganda trick of an accuser accusing individual A of actions of which individual B is actually most guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:42 PM

The topic at hand is the candidates now, Jack the Sailor. Let's stick to the topic at hand. We can't change what is already posted, so let's just move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:29 PM

>>I am responding to posters individually, yes. I am not calling them names or attacking them personally. There is a difference.

Lets look at the first post you made on this thread.


>>>From: GUEST,DV
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:16 PM

Yeah, he is acting just like the Republican sleaze he has always been, even when HE was the politico celeb du jour.

Imagine that. Presidential candidates are all lying sacks of horse manure. We're shocked.

Thanks for posting this, Bobert. I'm sure most Mudcatters hadn't heard that McCain lies.<<

I read this as sarcasm, I believe that you are implying that Bobert is stupidly wasting your time by telling you something you already know. If it is otherwise, please tell us what you meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:29 PM

For the record, I have enthusiatically endorsed Obama since the beginning so I guess that makes Amos and me the two person majority...lol...

Here's the problems/obseravtions, DV, that I have with your short posting history here in Mudville... The first one I pointed out in a previous thread where you stated that were "very concerned" that Obam would lose and then in the very same thread started attacking him... See, we have had a few folks come here and do exactly that... One well known one, Fantz, was recently banned for going too far over the edge with the personal attacks... Secondly, I am not convinced that you aren't Dickey or Old Guy because of your style and your attacking nature... Lastly, if you indeed want McCain to lose I'd like to see where you have made some level of commitment to the Obama campaign... Stopping the attacks would be a good place to start... We can talk policy all day long but coded generalizations play right into the McCain campaign strategy...

That's 'bout it from this ol' hillbilly...

BTW, you might want to read DougR's post for how to argue against the "majority"...

Bobert~

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:28 PM

Amos, I have already been admonished by the forum moderators, twice. I prefer to keep to the topic of the candidates, not individuals in this forum--you or me.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:16 PM

DV:

As I have tried to explain, I welcome your opinions and find them, when I get what they are, to be thoughtful and well-considered, even if they differ from my own. Where I get frustrated (usually not angry, and I apologize if it comes across that way) is where I see facts or communications being twisted one way or another in order to serve the purpose of nullifying or quashing something of merit. I see that a lot in the rightie blogs or posts in the 'Net at large--complete distortions of fact. Your posts, not so much. I woudl say, probably, if you wanted to find people enthusiastic about Obama, you could do so easily.

My own political history is not party driven. I have opposed George Bush consistently, and I have supported several recent Democrats -- Gore, Kerry and Obama -- but not because of their party. I look for feasible approaches to the optimum solution. I would have preferred, for example, to see Dennis Kucinich take the Dem party by storm. But his campaign, despite its scintillating intelligence, never became viable, and I see no sense (unlike GfS and a few others) in supporting a candidate who can't organize a viable campaign. I back individuals, not parties, but they have to be in the race. That's just my personal quirk, I suppose. I actually voted for Ross Perot once. True confession! :D

Barack Obama, in my opinion, is a genuine voice trying to find a working path to unify the nation and steer it toward very positive goals. This is an extraordinarily hard thing to do under any circumstances. I'd rather carry a hamburger into a pack of starving ALsatians. But so far, he's doing it relatively well -- he's putting together plans that make a lot nmore sense than his predecessors, and he's carrying a lot of public enthusiasm with him, and he's demonstrating a steady hand at foreign relations and a good eye on domestic policy issues. In addition, he has a youthful vigor the country needs. As far as I can see he's the best shot we have at making a difference. And I think votes should make a difference.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Peace
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:12 PM

"So, as Obama volunteers, you have an obvious interest in silencing criticism of your candidate, yes?"

You haven't turned that upside down to see the corrollery/collarerl/corrollary obverse. It would be in the best interest of "Obama volunteers" to tie you up where your criticisms are contained. It is never worthwhile to silence the opposition. It is worthwhile to give them a sound-proof room.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:05 PM

DV, I tend to agree with you, in regards to the two candidates, for which I've taken my share of heat. Neither of these candidates represent the 'will of the people'..until they get us to jump on their agenda driven causes. This is why people are so angry!! Both are bought and paid for. Obama is pandering to the underclasses, hoping they'll buy is unaffordable entitlements, to gather votes, and McCain is pandering to people to afraid to go for a change, and the sense of nationalism. This 'election' is a complete farce, foisted on the American public. Neither one of them, should have ever been considered, if integrity was a criteria.!

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:58 PM

I am one of the majority posters to this thread. So are Amos, Jack the Sailor, and a couple others. Because we disagree, I suppose one could define the discourse level as "battles of the world".

But is that really what is happening? Because I'm not angry. I'm just posting prolifically today, like I was last Saturday.

I am responding to posters individually, yes. I am not calling them names or attacking them personally. There is a difference. If you would like to shut down the thread or block my IP for my posting behavior, go ahead.

As I said, I stay on topic until a certain group of your regulars start making me the subject of the debate here. That isn't fair either, but I guess it is what someone who isn't part of the regular group of posters here should expect in this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:52 PM

Tone it down, DV. It looks like you're doing battle with the world here. You are naming individuals and categorizing them as this or that, and then accuse them of ad nominem attacks. Please address the issues, not the individuals.
Take a deep breath, and cool the anger down.
Thank you.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:42 PM

katlaughing and Big Mick, is it both of your intentions to leap on the bandwagon of ad hominem attacks against me?

How about we all stay on topic, here?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:36 PM

Yes, Ted Kennedy has been one of the party cheerleaders too.

So, as Obama volunteers, you have an obvious interest in silencing criticism of your candidate, yes?

Here is the deal. I really don't know any "party faithfuls" in the Democratic party. I don't live in an historically Democratic area, and my progressive friends who vote at all, either vote for independents and third party candidates (locally) and either vote Democrat or don't vote for president, in presidential elections. I also know tons of people who don't vote at all anymore, and even a few who have never voted, locally or nationally.

Does that shock you? It makes me like at least half of all Americans who are eligible to vote, but don't. Why is that so odd here? I thought this was a music forum, not a Democratic party blog with a comments section!

It doesn't appear to me that Amos is a Democratic party activist like you, Carol, and Bobert state you are, but that doesn't mean he isn't a party loyalist, which if one goes by his posting history to this forum, he certainly is.

But none of this has anything salient to do with the discussion of either McCain's policies or Obama's, does it? Except it does reveal your biases.

Because of my lack of posting history in other elections here, I'm trying to give you my perspective. Clearly I come from a different place socially and politically than the Obama supporters in this forum. But we aren't required to sign a pledge statement to post here, are we? That's a joke, people. A joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:32 PM

But, m-o-m! HE did it first!

What a specious justification.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Peace
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:28 PM

That's rich having read your post about Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:27 PM

DV

I would have put Ted Kennedy as his biggest cheerleader. But that hardly matters, all of the party is behind him now. The same cannot be said for McCain. We (Carol and I) have been working on the ground for Obama here in North Carolina. I can tell you for a fact that lots of party faithful are very enthusiastic for him. We have also met lots of independents and first time voters.

It is certainly not "marketing hype" with me. I have been paying attention to what he has been saying and I am very impressed with his organizational and political skills. His organization did a very good job in this town. That is for sure.

May I ask, since you are voting Democrat, what your point is in constantly knocking Obama and his supporters? Do you simply think that there is not enough bad energy in the world? Or do you have something against rainbows and unicorns? And change? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:27 PM

It would take quite awhile to read through his entire posting history, but one can make some quick leaps back in time to find out how this person posted during the previous election cycles, too. Which is what I did to get an idea of where he is coming from.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion of Amos being openminded and tolerant of other peoples' opinions. He may be in some ways, but not on presidential politics he isn't.

I am enunciating my views, and nothing more, until Amos, Jack the Sailor, Donuel and a few other Obama supporters begin ad hominem attacks against me specifically, rather than keep on topic.

If you are objectively reading the threads I participate in, you will see who attacks personally first.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:20 PM

DV said;

Yes, and you truly believe yourself to be a majority of one, Amos. That much you make clear in your posting history.

I watched the link, "buddy". (Your anger and intolerance for opinions different from your own is glaring there, Amos.)

This is where I have a problem with your style. First, you accuse Amos of being a "majority of one" and say it is clear from his posting history. If you had been around more than 15 minutes, or if you bothered to really read his posting history (which would take you quite a while) you would know that there are not many that are more tolerant of other opinions than Amos. That is not to say that he isn't opinionated, but that is hardly a sin here.

Why don't you just stick to enunciating your views, and attacking the points others make instead of the person making them?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:19 PM

"I was responding to your exagerrated claim that you knew "none"."

This is hysterically funny! Amos, you don't know me much less all the people I know, so why do you think you are right to say I'm exaggerating?

Proof, please! LOL!

I am not intentionally distorting anything. You also claim to "know as fact" that Obama is what he says he is, and that he is always right. How can I say such a thing? Easy. You just claimed as fact that your interpretation of Obama's speech/positions/candidacy is the only RIGHT one, and any and all that disagree with or criticize his speech are intentionally distorting and twisting.

You are, Amos, a person who engages in a common human failing: believing your opinions to be facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:12 PM

I don't like bullies, either, DV. SOmething we can agree on, anyway! But I did not assert I was a majority. I was responding to your exagerrated claim that you knew "none".

My anger is not that you might have a different opinion, a fact which, fundamentally, I celebrate even when I am up in arms. It is stirred up when I think intentional distortion and twisting is being used.

I don't ostracize people who are interested in communication, no matter what their opinion ios; and even if I did the only means I would have of doing so is by dropping into silence, as I have no weight or authortiy in this community other than as an individual poster.

I think Obama's general outlines in his energy speech were useful, helpful, and forward-looking.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:01 PM

Yes, and you truly believe yourself to be a majority of one, Amos. That much you make clear in your posting history.

I watched the link, "buddy". (Your anger and intolerance for opinions different from your own is glaring there, Amos.)

But not until AFTER I read the complete text of the speech.

I have never claimed to be authoritative. I simply post my opinion, which includes not using a de facto social ostracization policy that's the cyber-equivalent of the death penalty in this forum, for anyone who thinks differently than the Obama worshipping cadre.

I see plenty of evidence of people here who think a lot like I do about Obama, but they usually only post once or twice to threads on the presidential election here and there. So I seriously question your majority representation here. I think the Obama cadre are a bunch of bullies, frankly. And I don't like bullies.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:52 AM

I did a cartoon of McCan't and his straight talk.
THe funny words/lies curve and braid into an image of a larger script that says BuSh

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:51 AM

Well, I am, so there's one, buddy. And if you had watched the video from his talk in Lanhsing you would have seen several thousand more. If you had watched his Berlin speech, you would have seen 20,000. You are creating, in my opinion, a small, withered, falsified picture of the situation and promulgating it as though it were an authoritative analysis. Well, I beg to doffer; it is not a broad analysis, it is a sour weevil lost in space.

The reason to vote for him has nothing to do with his race, but because he's smarter than John McCain, and your own jaded characterizations just don't cut it. Neither do your sweeping pundit-like descriptions iof huge classes of people you don't know.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:35 AM

I'm in a distinct minority in this forum, obviously, because even before Obama started flipping his positions on the environment, I was convinced it doesn't matter whether McCain or Obama was elected. Because there was some genuine differences between the two candidates during the primary, and because I, like the rest of the country, wish to sweep Republicans out of power this fall, I was willing to go to the polls and actually vote for Obama.

I, like Stringsinger in the above the line thread on Obama said, don't know anyone who is enthusiastic about Obama. Everyone I know who is voting for Obama is doing so because they don't want the Republicans in power anymore.

There is a big difference between us, and the Democratic party voters who truly believe the marketing hype surrounding Obama.

There is one legitimate reason to vote for Obama now, and one only: his race. Him being elected president would break the color barrier. But that is still single issue voting that ignores the fact that the State of Texas' biggest industry today is jailing immigrants.

When you combine those realities (which Obama and the Democrats refuse to address) with some other really disturbing information, like the revelatory investigative report by Mother Jones into civil rights groups working WITH the predatory lendors in the African American and Lation communities that are wiping out all the gains made to bring people of color into the middle class in the last 30 years, it all looks kinda scary to just vote for a black man who acts exactly like every other cynical white Democratic party politician.

Let's not forget who his two biggest party cheerleaders are in the Democratic party: John Kerry and Tom Daschle. Hell, even Al Gore Democrats aren't that enthusiastic about Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:35 AM

No Sharon, I think its all too possible. Take nothing for granted. There are a lot of gullible people out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:22 AM

But back to the subject.... I fear that the Republicans will try to push that wheel-less express bus along the dusty road and over the finish line first. Impossible? Hope so...

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:11 AM

Right. And I would add blue links to that list too.

So maybe you should stop doing it as a strategy to beat your opinion into other people's heads.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 11:01 AM

>>Yes, I can certainly give as good as I get, can't I?

Not that I've noticed. Anyone can cut and paste and say"no."

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Peace
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:49 AM

DV: Get a membership so we can use the message feature.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: pdq
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:42 AM

"But how many people of color use this forum?"

Er, about one. But she writes very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:40 AM

I believe McCain looks healthy enough for his age. Considering he looks like Skeletor.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:39 AM

There is a tremendous amount of arrogance and hostility newcomers (I was one recently enough) meet with when wading into political threads here, Jack The Sailor. So perhaps you, as a hardened veteran of these discussions, might want to take that on board too. I have adjusted my behavior to meet the behavior those here before me. Yes, I can certainly give as good as I get, can't I?

Peace, I suppose it isn't odd to remark that there are few people of color at McCain's rallies. But how many people of color use this forum?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Peace
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 08:26 AM

Did anyone ever notice that McCain doesn't seem too healthy?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Peace
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:52 AM

Did anyone ever notice that there are not too many people of colour at McCain's 'meetings'?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 07:44 AM

JtS,

In case you haven't figured it out DV is a reconstituted Dickey who was a reconstituted Old Guy... Remember them??? Well, if it walks like a duck...

Amos,

Yeah, looks as if the McCain team is closely monitorin' just who is allowed to be uin these so-called "town hall meetings" just as Bush has done... Good campaign strategy but hardly a forum for "straight talk"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:27 AM

"Stereo politicians, talking out of both sides of their mouths....."

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 02:11 AM

And the lies keep coming!

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 01:15 AM

With respect DV.
You are being treated with hostility because you are acting hostile.
You are acting arrogant and condescending. You act as though you are superior but then you don't think before you post and that makes it easy to poke holes in your arguments and make you look dumber than us. The irony of that is slightly satisfying.

We play rough with people we know, but don't kid yourself there is respect and affection there too.

You come here half wound up and there are a group of us who are happy to wind you up the rest of the way and watch you spin. If that's the way you want it from now til November 4, that's how it will be. Or you can take the chip off your shoulder. Or you can relax and enjoy yourself. Either way, it won't matter to us. You are one in a long line.

Why don't you start some threads about "real". News and try talking about it without implying that we are stupid? That would be nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:54 AM

So you are looking to have conversations with fellow converts in your cause? Is that why you are so hostile to anything that strays outside the lines of conventional Democratic party propaganda here?

That at least explains the circular nature of the conversation, and the lack of original thought in this section of the forum.

And actually, I see very little discussion here of REAL news. Just dicussion of whatever is on the screen crawls from the cable echo chamber on any given day, or what is front page news at Huffington Post.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:43 AM

You seem to want to make everything personal Sawzaw. Criticism of McCain is not criticism of you. Do you not only think that Amos is Obama, Do you also think that you are McCain?

>>From: GUEST,DV
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 11:42 PM

Why do you guys keep acting like this is some sort of shocking news, that will result in...what exactly?

McCain being shot by firing squad?

The media coming out and denouncing him?

McCain admits he is a jerk?

What exactly is the point of this exercise you keep repeating in this forum over and over and over?

Is it like this here every election, or just this one?<<<

What's it to you? If you don't like it here, I can help you find another forum. :-)

Just kidding! We're just talking about the news. News comes up, we talk about it. Its pretty much always been like this. We talk about the news, a couple of naysayers and right wing nut jobs come and try to convince us that we are stupid until they find something better to do than to butt in on our conversations. Then more of them come along to take their place. There seems to be an endless supply. Where do you all come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 05 Aug 08 - 12:17 AM

Lonely John is now at 44% and Celebrity Obama is now at 45% in the polls right after he made his celebrity tour in Europe.

Not bad for an old codger.

Please note that criticism is not a personal attack.

People that can't stand criticism claim that they are being attacked.

Other people describe being asked to leave an area for the bus as being "booted from the meeting"

Then they have to claim that the person was "booted" because he was black when they don't really know if that was the reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 11:42 PM

Why do you guys keep acting like this is some sort of shocking news, that will result in...what exactly?

McCain being shot by firing squad?

The media coming out and denouncing him?

McCain admits he is a jerk?

What exactly is the point of this exercise you keep repeating in this forum over and over and over?

Is it like this here every election, or just this one?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Amos
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 11:23 PM

So...lemme get this straight--the old Bush "suppress the communication" tactic --closed-loop "open houses" with prescripted attendance, kicking out dissent, and anal control over all communication, is being revitalized full-bore for McCain?

The whole bunch of them were state-level reporters; the freedom of the press has now been roundly subordinated to arbitrary "security" concerns driven by bureaucrat opinions?

WTF?

Good think McCain promised to run a civilized xampaign...



A

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 10:58 PM

Was the town hall meeting in the cheese aisle or at the German restaurant?

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 10:57 PM

Sawzaw

Obama has better things to do than give lonely John an audience.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 10:45 PM

So was the reporter asked to leave the bus area because he was black?

___yes

___no

Was the second person asked to leave because the first person was black?

___yes

___no

Were they "booted" from the town hall meeting or just the bus area?

___yes

___no


Did Barrack accept McCain's invitation and participate in the town hall meeting?

___yes

___no

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 10:14 PM

Here is Olbermann interviewing Mr Price. It looks bad for McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:46 PM

the original story

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:27 PM

Thanks, Bobert. Here's some interesting commentary and info on the reporter being ousted: click.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:21 PM

How can you say that about azailleahs?

Only a nasty flower speciest would say something that low.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Peace
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:16 PM

Meanwhile, as the sun sank/sinked/sunk fell from the western sky, little asteroids flew flittingly through the air (DOH!). As Dawn approached the lifeguard swimmed/swam/swum motioned in the manner of a seagull rugby team walking a very thin line bordering on the left a garden filled with azaiileahs/azzhaleas/azeelaiaias flowers draped in vines that hung/hinged/hang were suspended by sle

OOPS.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,DV
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:16 PM

Yeah, he is acting just like the Republican sleaze he has always been, even when HE was the politico celeb du jour.

Imagine that. Presidential candidates are all lying sacks of horse manure. We're shocked.

Thanks for posting this, Bobert. I'm sure most Mudcatters hadn't heard that McCain lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:10 PM

That's what happens when Paris Hilton's mom scolds him.
Its also what he gets when McCain's mom calls his Ad "Kinda stupid".

Scolding..

Subject: BS: Wheels Fallin' Off Straight Talk Express
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Aug 08 - 09:02 PM

Well, well, well...

Seems that John McCain, once the darling of the media because he'd spend hours with 'um drenkin' and carryin' on bull sessions is now paranoid of the media...

Yep, no more bull sessions and, oh, what about this Steven Price guy of the Talehassee Democrat who was removed from one of John's fake town hall meeetings for being the only black reporter???

Seems that things ain't all that cool in McCainville these days...

B~