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BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Jul 13 - 08:48 AM Metropolitan Police are investigating a Saturday morning assault and robbery as a hate crime. Police said a 28-year-old man from Bethesda, Md., was attacked in the 1700 block of Euclid Street NW in D.C.'s Adams Morgan neighborhood. The victim said he was approached by three black men who kicked and punched him to the ground around 1:20 a.m. According the victim, one of the attackers yelled, "This is for Trayvon," during the assault. The victim suffered lacerations to the face from the attack. Police said the suspects took the man's wallet and iPhone. The police report lists the incident as "robbery force violence, hate bias incident." Trayvon Martin was shot and killed by George Zimmerman in February 2012 in Sanford, Fla. The verdict in the George Zimmerman trial sparked mixed reactions around the world after a jury of six women acquitted the former neighborhood watch volunteer in the shooting death of the unarmed black teenager. http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Police-Assault-Robbery-Investigated-as-Hate-Bias-217299901.html "The victim said he was approached by three black men who kicked and punched him to the ground around 1:20 a.m." Well, according to "SS"Bobert, this is normal greetings, and nothing to get upset about. Why are they even trying to charge the assailants????? After all, the victim was white- he must have been a racist, like Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 29 Jul 13 - 09:12 AM ""It sounds like you are agreeing with the original officers, who weren't going to charge him at all!!"" That is a pretty vile misrepresentation, when what I said was that, not only the officers, but the prosecution and the judge, in fact all the law agencies concerned were actively seeking acquittal. If they weren't protecting the "white"(ish) man from punishment for kllng a n****r, what, would you suppose, was the logical basis for the general reluctance to try to convict, and why was Trayvon Martin's character not given the degree of protection so quickly and rigidly applied to Zimmerman's. If you were to tell me that the jury were given ALL relevant evidence in this case, I would have to call you a liar. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 13 - 09:59 AM So, GfinS, your new argument is that we should just move on because we are musicians??? Pathetic reasoning... No, that's where your are wronger than your usual wrong... As musicians we are charged to not move on... It is our job to tell the truth against bigotry, racism and hate... You can write sticky sweet love songs all you want but most musicians I know are trying to think a little deeper and use their music to speak to injustice... "I Shall Not Be Moved"... Oh, that's right... You don't do no justice music... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 29 Jul 13 - 10:17 AM 29 Jul 13 - 08:48 AM And your point, BeardedBullshit? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Jul 13 - 10:22 AM GregF, You are the one woith the point- right under you pointy hatted sheet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 29 Jul 13 - 10:28 AM As I thought, Beardy - just more of your usual horseshit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Jul 13 - 10:38 AM Unlike Ubermensch Bobert, I do not accept calling people who are "Black, and Democrat" "a dumb ni**er", as you, greggie boy, have done. I guess Bobert only sees the KKK when someone disagrees with him,. Maybe his own sheet is hiding the truth and reality from him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Richard Bridge Date: 29 Jul 13 - 11:06 AM Z got out of a car and followed M. Why? Because M looked like "one of them". Young, black, in a hoodie, in a white neighbourhood. Fact. Whatever the judge admitted. Z then initiated a confrontation. "What are you doing here". He could have said "Neighbourhood watch, can I help you". But he didn't. At that point M reasonably apprehended an assault. He became entitled to use reasonable force to defend himself. He did. There is no evidence at all that he intended to do more than incapacitate Z in order to prevent the reasonably feared assault. Z shot M while M was exercising his right to self defence. Z's assault, under Florida law, was a misdemeanour not a felony. It looked to me VERY like the usual definition (I have not got to the bottom of the Florida law here) of "unlawful-act-manslaughter". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 29 Jul 13 - 12:07 PM Repetitive name-calling. Please discontinue thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST Date: 29 Jul 13 - 12:22 PM Repetitive? Who me? Yikes! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 29 Jul 13 - 12:28 PM THIS must be why Ubermensch Bobert says I am KKK: From: beardedbruce - PM Date: 18 Jul 13 - 12:50 PM Based on the trial, an the evidence presented, I have made a conclusion- Others here are making their conclusions based on what they think could have happened, without regard to the presented evidence. Was the evidence false? The prosecution did not make an effort to prove that. Was there racial profiling- Not according to the presented transcripts of 911 call, interviews, or testimony. The presumption of innocence is a part of our system of justice- there was nothing presented that would lead a reasonable person to think that Zimmerman was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. SHOULD he have been convicted of manslaughter? I suspect the prosecution COULD have made a good case for that, but the POLITICAL decision was made to go for 2nd degree murder. THAT is why Zimmerman got off without punishment. And wWHY did they go for murder when manslaughter would have given as long or longer a sentence? BECAUSE the racists and "liberals" were demanding it- so it becomes their fault Zimmerman walks. If it had been done according to the law, with full disclosure, and a Grand Jury, the charge would have been manslaughter at worst, and the jury may well have decided for that, if the prosecution had presented the evidence for it. But in the attempt to meet the "court of public opinion" the state threw that away. And every young black male being arrested and charged in these "demonstrations " is bearing the price of the "liberal" media and the racists that demanded a murder charge. A pity that Bobert cannot even take responsibility for the harm that his hate-mongering contributes to. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 13 - 01:07 PM Richrad, Getting to the bottom of stand-your-ground laws ain't going to be all that pretty... Think of them as "night soil"... The absolute worst of what mankind has to offer written to appease the NRA and Redneck Nation... This is all politics... The Republicans don't give a flying fuck about guns and abortion but they need votes so they gin up these emotional issues to rile up their base... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,SJL Date: 29 Jul 13 - 01:48 PM GfS, that was really, really beautiful. You're a good dude man. The best. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jul 13 - 03:27 PM Things are pretty cool around here now, but in my neighborhood a few years ago there was a rash of break-ins and car-prowls, plus a couple of muggings. One day I was going down the street of the local business district and coming the other way were two young people, one a young woman, and the other, a young black man. They both wore yellow T-shirts with a logo on them. "Neighborhood Watch." I was hardly doing anything of a suspicious nature—in fact, I was tooling off to a local drug store in my electric wheelchair. As we were about to pass each other, we greeted each other, then stopped and chatted for a few minutes. They just wanted to introduce themselves. There was nothing threatening about them. No challenges, like, "What are you doing here!?" We talked for a few minutes quite pleasantly. They mentioned that, due to the epidemic of car-prowls and muggings, several people in the neighborhood had gotten together and started a neighborhood watch program, calling for volunteers who would be willing to patrol the neighborhood at any time of the day or night. They were to travel in pairs, and each pair had an assigned time and area. And they would be easily identified by the yellow T-shirts. And they were not to go armed! Although as voluteers, the group that initiated the neighborhood watch had called for relatively young, fit people who, preferably, had some knowledge of martial arts. As I say, we chatted amicably, they just wanted to introduce themselves, and we parted with a smile and a wave. They continued their rounds and I went on to do my errand at the local pharmacy. This is a fairly civilized area of the country. Don Firth P. S. Considering the misinformation and bigotry that Beardedbruce and Songwronger spread, they have a lot to answer for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 29 Jul 13 - 04:09 PM Southern folks are good at two things, Don: 1. What the late Son House referred to as "grinnin' in your face" which is a phony baloney way of acting as if they like you when they'd rather kill you... And... ...2. Short tempers... Not a good combination... Of course, I am not saying that "all Southerners" are like that but these two traits do seem to be part of the Southern culture... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jul 13 - 04:09 PM And by the way, at least one of the pair had to have a cell phone, with which to call the police if they saw something suspicious. And they were told not to confront anyone unless they came upon a mugging in progress. Hence, in the event of the latter, the preference for people with some knowledge of martial arts. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 30 Jul 13 - 07:56 AM "P. S. Considering the misinformation and bigotry that Beardedbruce and Songwronger spread, they have a lot to answer for." WHAT misinformation? Please give some example of what you call misinformation- i have posted facts, unlike most here. If you don't like the logical result of those facts, that is YOUR problem, that YOU have to answer for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 30 Jul 13 - 08:02 AM Oh, you mean the bigotry of saying that the prosecution should have to obey the law in a trial? Or that the evidence presented at the trial has to prove guilt to get a guilty verdict? Or that the evidence presented BY THE PROSECUTION would lead a reasonable person to believe that Martin threw the first punch? Or that the only racism shown has been that of Ubermensch Bobert and his group of sycophants, who judge guilt solely on the basis of skin color? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,SJL Date: 30 Jul 13 - 10:46 AM You know what Bruce? I'm just going to ignore you. Bobert, Don and Greg: So we are people with common sense and we know what happened. George Zimmerman stalked, pursued and tried to take down Trayvon Martin. It didn't work out as GZ planned. So he took his life. Bobert, I completely understand what you saud about that Southern grinning. Did you see that shit eating grin on John Good's face as he basically lied on the stand? I sure did. The question is, what are we going to do about it now? In light of that terrible trial and verdict which put Trayvon Martin in a negative light instead of the defendant? Here's what I have done and you should do this too. Send an email to your Attorney General. Make it as compelling as possible. Make it short and sweet, it's the voices that count. Tell him that just because he is part Afro-American himself is not a reason to retreat. Tell him this is a Abraham Lincoln moment, an LBJ moment, a time in history for a great man to show himself. And pay not attention to bearded bullshit. He's a troll. He's just here to upset you. You know you're right- and so does he. Trust me on this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,SJL Date: 30 Jul 13 - 11:09 AM And please excuse the typos. I am not a proof reader. I am a writer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Richard Bridge Date: 30 Jul 13 - 11:26 AM Q - visit the real world some time. You don't have to be black to see how racism works. You only have to open your eyes. I see it all the time with my girlfriend. If we go, say, to a North African restaurant people expect her to pick the menu. But she was born and bred in England, and raised in South London by her mother who is of Irish/Cockney background and heritage. She got so fed up with the assumptions about who she was that she has "Made in England" tattooed on the back of her neck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 30 Jul 13 - 11:50 AM THE LIBERAL VIEW: "You know what Bruce? I'm just going to ignore you. ... So we are people with common sense and we know what happened." Sounds just like the KKK after they lynch someone- THEY know what happened, too, regardless of any inconvenient facts or evidence, and were willing to insure "justice" regardless of the courts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 13 - 12:05 PM Well, SJL... I already write a ton of letters and will continue to do so... There is going to be a national protest - I believe on August 28th - in every major city... Just as I did during the Occupy movement I'll be there with my 5 gallon paint pail, drumstick and appropriate sign on my back... This ain't over by a long shot... The KKK used say, "Nothing to see here, move along" after one of their lynching parties... To me that is exactly what we are hearing from the usual white suspects here when they say, "The trial is over. Zimmerman is innocent. Time to move on."... No, it's not time to move on... It's time to get this thing right... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 30 Jul 13 - 01:09 PM I said I would no longer post below the line. but allegations about what I believe were made that are defamatory. I do not support nor believe that racism should be a factor in society. Of course racism exists. It exists in all cultures. Murder based on race is killing many in Uganda, Congo, Kenya and elsewhere. People in all many societies cleave to "their own," those who share their values if not the racial-cultural pattern they were raised with. The killing in Mali, Nigeria, etc. is based on religion but race is a factor. Anyone who knows the history of Ireland cannot ignore the social separation of the Catholics and the Protestant segments of the population in Northern Ireland. Race is an un-admitted element here too. The UK has received immigrants of many races, and a good deal of integration has taken place. But social integration is still limited, and will remain so for some time to come. In Japan, mixed race, Korean and southeast Asians are not accepted socially and suffer discrimination in the workplace. Mixed white-Japanese families are not accepted by many Japanese. South Africa is a great experiment, attempting to achieve equality of opportunity. This throws the different groups together, and social acceptance is developing. Divides remain. Here in Calgary, there is little social acceptance of the Indians whose reservation borders the city. Calgary has over 20 percent visible minorities. Acceptance socially is growing, but many prefer their own neighborhoods, with cultures they have brought with them. Calgary has an excellent mayor, who happens to be a Muslim; he and others in the business, professional and political fields are building bridges socially. I have been accused of racism because of opinions I have expressed. What did I say? I believe that the result of the Zimmerman trial was the only one possible, given the evidence presented in the trial and the laws of the state of Florida. Nowhere did I say that I approve of the system or that white is right. But it is up to the people of the state of Florida to change the system and its perception, which is unlikely at present because of the great wave of resentment build up because of decreased income and insurance changes which are blamed on the federal administration and Obama (not deserved but perceived). The acceptance of Tea principles, hare-brained as they are, is based on resentment of many kinds. I commented on the fight for equality carried on by King, his predecessors, and the Black people of the South. I am glad of the progress that has been made, and hope for more. The federal government and the courts made changes in law, and sent marshals to see that the changes were carried out. These advances affected much of the country, not just the South. The accusation of racism perhaps stems mostly from my remark that outsiders, the white Freedom Riders especially, created resentment in the South. This many years later it is still resented. The sit-ins, marches and efforts of the Black community and progressive southern whites towards equality generated opposition but not resentment. Many white citizens in the South agreed that the move to equality was necessary, and gave their support. Many Blacks have been accepted in business and the political and policing fields. Discrimination remains, but is cannot be overcome overnight. Nowhere did I say that I am or was against the moves to equality; I agree that they were absolutely necessary. The sacrifices made by members of the Black community and their southern supporters were important and must be remembered. I did question the influence of outsiders in achieving the advances that have been made. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 13 - 02:28 PM but allegations about what I believe were made that are defamatory. Just as you did to me, Q, and now YOU'RE whining? Gimmie a fuckin' break, will ya? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 30 Jul 13 - 02:30 PM What Bobert considers fair rules: "Also, when people make up stuff that they claim other people have said and then argue with the made up stuff it gets pretty old fast... Plus, it is dishonest... Also, if I present an position and you challenge me on it, fine... If in my response I ask direct questions to someone who has challenged me and they refuse to answer them then that is also dishonest..." Yet he does not follow them himself- another example of the Ubermensch . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 13 - 02:32 PM I did question the influence of outsiders in achieving the advances that have been made. Dam right, Q! Its them infernal OUTSIDE AGITATORS who screwed things up, as Tom Paxton reminded us: We didn't know", said the congregation, singing a hymn in their church of White "Press was full of lies about us, preacher told us we were right." "The outside agitators came, they burned some churches and put the blame "On decent southern people's names to set our Colored people aflame" "And maybe some of our boys got hot and a couple of Nigras and Reds got shot" "They should have stayed where they belonged!""The preacher would have told us if we'd done wrong." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 30 Jul 13 - 02:43 PM Speaking of outsiders... A lot of the laws that states are implementing are being pushed by: 1. Candidates whose campaigns were financed by outside money 2. Ad campaigns for or against policies by outside money Why have the Koch brothers and the buddies poured so much of their money into North Carolina??? They don't live here or own businesses here... Talk about outsiders... These rich people are pouring tens of million$$$ into buying up other folks statehouses... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,SJL Date: 30 Jul 13 - 10:17 PM That's great Bobert that you plan to demonstrate on the 28th. I should find out if anything is planned in my area. This is rather unfortunate: http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2013/07/22/204595068/polls-show-wide-rac I have a couple of ideas on this: 1.) The poll reflects a general lack of community. In our society it's every man for himself. It makes it very easy for those who are less affected by what happened to Trayvon Martin to be in denial. If they are not directly impacted, then oh well. Sad. 2.) The percentage of white people who feel that this has been a travesty of justice most likely includes many young people. My son's generation is not racist (N.Y.) So race relations are bound to improve in the future. It's just a matter of time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:06 AM SJL: "1.) The poll reflects a general lack of community. In our society it's every man for himself. It makes it very easy for those who are less affected by what happened to Trayvon Martin to be in denial.." The lack of community comes from so many people who have latched on to this, not because of genuine concern for their fellow man, but a political NOTION, which is being fed by whatever slant of the story they wish to believe, or even MAKE UP, and the FACTS they persevere to ignore, and then fan their need to feel relevant, on the wandering weak! All one has to do, is scroll back through this thread, and see that what I just said is absolutely true. This isn't about justice, this isn't about 'righting a wrong', this isn't about ending racism or bigotry....it's about opportunists, needing to FEEL important, taking a stand, based on the exploitation of feelings, pumped up by ignorance, and lies.After reviewing a LOT of this thread, there is no other rational conclusion. It seems to go straight down 'party' lines...and from what I've seen, BOTH the parties have more to do with corruption, justifying it, and rallying people emotionally to 'their cause'. Truth is, there is no 'cause'... ...as for me, I'm not with either party..frankly I'm ashamed at both of them! Both the parties are just trying to suck people into their bullshit. Only racists and bigots relate to any of this contrived bullshit...I'm clear. ...or as I've said before, 'I'm not with the party..I'm with the band!' You guys NEED hate, whether it be in yourselves, or what you can stir up in others....as for me, you've FAILED to stir any of it up in me. The bullshit is to easy to see, and to see that this is all where it's coming from. Absolutely pathetic....you've proudly shown what it is to be small! GfS P.S. My prior post was going to be my last on this thread...maybe altogether...'common sense' has no place in your politics! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Richard Bridge Date: 31 Jul 13 - 05:23 AM Oh, FFS, please go back wherever you came from. Planet Zog was it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:10 AM No wonder Ubermensch Bobert hates the NRA so much... "The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan," said Alford. "They would raise money, buy arms, show the free slaves how to use those arms and protect their families. God bless you. Many of us probably wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the NRA" he said. http://www.nationalbcc.org/index.php?view=article&id=1681%3Apresidentceo-harry-c-alford-praises-the-national-rifle-association&o |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:38 AM There is no dispute that an armed Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin... So what do we have??? Loopholes, i.e. stupid laws that allow people to get away with murder... In "stand your ground" states I can murder you and get away with it... I just need to do it where there are no witnesses... I shoot you and then claim that I was fearful that you might harm me... Bang, bang, you're dead... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:42 AM "There is no dispute that an armed Zimmerman stalked and killed Martin..." Except by everyone that disagrees with Ubermensch Bobert. Another Bobert "fact"- ( restated lie) The "stalking" is in the minds of the bigot and racists, who project what THEY would do onto Zimmerman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,Huest from Sanity Date: 31 Jul 13 - 08:52 AM Robot: "So what do we have??? Loopholes, i.e. stupid laws that allow people to get away with murder..." So what do we have??? Loopholes, i.e. stupid people that allow laws to get away with murder... So either change them, or shut the fuck up! ...and by the way, is it 'murder' if it is 'within the law'? THAT is what the jury had to decide. Stupid law??..maybe...but GZ thought that he was within the law..the jury thought the same thing....and maybe we ALL think that the trigger shouldn't have been pulled...maybe we all should think that Martin had no right to be beating him up, either. Like I said, a chain of stupid decisions...and failure to see that, is just still more stupidity! So go beat your pail and march around...as long as you don't open your mouth, you won't sound as stupid as you'll look! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 09:02 AM "The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan," Absolute, total, and utter bullshit. As would be expected from BullshitBruce. See: http://www.nrahq.org/history.asp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 09:13 AM So, GregF believes that blacks are liars, since this is a quote" from one, as the supporting clicky says. Nothing in the NRA site says this is NOT true- but it was more important to the blacks affected than to the NRA- ONE aspect of 2nd amendment rights is to provide for the self-defense of all citizens. But GregF is one of those that Ubermensch Bobert would complain about- if he did not support Bobert's "World View" that everyone who disagrees with him is a racist, and everyone who agrees with him is above criticism. GregF distorts postings, and makes unsupported comments, calling things shit when the shit is in his own understanding of reality. Yet most "liberals" here have no problem with that, and support him and his attacks on people rather than the discuss the facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 09:25 AM You are so ignorant of the real world, GfinS, that it is pathetic... We progressives have done what we can to bring about saner policies and laws... I've been arrested... I've been harassed... I've been assaulted... I've even been fired from a job because... ...unlike folks like you who sit on their lazy asses and tell real people who have walked the walk to "shut the fuck up" I'm doing what I can... You are approaching a point where - like the other irrational person here - where I will just ignore your moronic postings... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 09:38 AM And Ubermensch Bobert demonstrates his perfection of the "Liberal Method" Ignore anything that you disagree with, and then "everyone" agrees with you and you can claim to be right. Far better than looking at the facts and trying to understand what really happened. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 10:29 AM So, GregF believes that blacks are liars, Even more idiotic than usual, BullshBruce. What I KNOW ( not believe ) is that the gentleman is ignorant of the facts, misinformed, or lying. You, on the other hand, are either ignorantly or intentionally (with the probability favoring the latter) repeating a falsehood. Bottom line is the statement is simply not true. Plenty more evidence, and at some length is available, about the truth of the formation of the NRA. Lets see you post something- other than the gent's statement - that supports his assertion. As for YOUR assertions, they are, as per usual, pure horseshit. (Suggestion: look up the second form of the ignorance fallacy) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST Date: 31 Jul 13 - 10:30 AM Glad to see the Trayvon Martin Memorial Thread is still extant. Of course, I don't read it anymore. Bad for my blood pressure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: GUEST,SJL Date: 31 Jul 13 - 12:07 PM GfS, I share your distaste for the divisive and exploitative nature of politics, however this case is about more than that. To say that it is only about politics distances one from very real pain surrounding this case. I think the difference between you and me is that you seem to be able to use your mode of reasoning to insulate yourself from that pain whereas it's my nature to feel it. My boyfriend is the same way. His oft repeated phrase: "You can't let it eat you up, hon." Not everything bothers me this much, but I've lost a lot of blood over this one. What has really hurt me about this case is what I perceive to be, in the pro-Zimmerman camp, an utter disregard for Trayvon Martin's humanity, that of his family and for Afro-American people in general. Zimmerman himself has shown no remorse whatsoever. That's the sign of a calculating, manipulative liar with no real conscience, and if you asked me, it betrays his ill intent. All the inconvenient facts about Zimmerman's history: his sexual abuse of a cousin, his domestic abuse, his assault on a police officer, his constant 911 calls over trivia, his lying to the court about his finances, his self-appointed status as Neighborhood Watch captain and obsession with doing police work, his instigation and escalation of the incident - of these things were essentially swept under the rug in favor of making the point that there was no racism involved. Trayvon Martin was put on trial to accomplish this and just below the surface of all that, is the very real and very racist assumption that Trayvon Martin deserved to die. It's that grinning in your face thing. Let's just pretend, shall we? I look at the people in the pro-Zimmerman camp as people without an appropriate sense of decency. I feel like saying to them, "It's painfully obvious to me that it is more important to you to promote the lie that none of this has been about race and to establish that with an acquittal than it is for you to feel for your fellow man. In fact, in order to avoid feeling for your fellow man, you have made him less than human. Before I become anything like you, I'll take more pain." Human beings have emotions. We are designed that way. The idea that emotions necessarily blind one to facts and truth is a very white idea that I have never ascribed to. Many times emotion is what allows you to cut through flimsy and far flung rationalizations, to interpret facts correctly and arrive at the truth. When slavery was in place, there were rational arguments galore as to why the status quo should proceed unimpeded, but in the final analysis it was human empathy that finally put an end to it. All that emotion. That said GfS, I would not relegate you to the pro-Zimmerman camp. I have heard you rant against what you perceive as a dogmatic adherence to an emotionally charged and highly politicized viewpoint. I have not heard you say that you believe what George Zimmerman did was right. On the other hand, I think your philosophical take on things is a bit of a distancing mechanism. You could stand to feel a little of this pain. Are you sure you won't have some? There's plenty to go around. Help yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 13 - 12:35 PM I don't think this needs much comment. It speaks for itself. Florida Cops Shoot Unarmed Black Man in His Mother's DrivewayPolicemen with their guns out and aimed at Middleton claiming they opened fire on Middleton because they thought he was "attacking them." Sound familiar? (Great shooting, by the way!) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 12:36 PM "NRA History The NRA was founded shortly after the American Civil War by Union Army officers who were appalled by the lack of shooting skills among the Union soldiers during the war and determined to correct this problem by encouraging the shooting sports and marksmanship among the general population, including former slaves in the former slave states. This made the NRA very unpopular in the former slaves states and the NRA was considered an enemy by the Ku Klux Klan. Union Army Col. William C. Church and Gen. George Wingate are the officially listed founders of the NRA. They were granted a charter from the state of New York on November 17, 1871. The first NRA president was Ambrose E. Burnside, a commander of the Army of the Potomac. Former US President Ulysses S. Grant, who had enacted the 1871 law declaring the Ku Klux Klan to be an illegal terrorist organisation, was elected president of the National Rifle Association in 1883. Nine of the NRA's first ten presidents had fought against slavery during the Civil War. Including: Gen. Winfield Scott Hancock, Gen. Phillip Sheridan. During Reconstruction, Gen. Sheridan removed hundreds of local officials from office in Louisiana and Texas for violating the rights of former slaves and for failing to enforce laws for their protection." http://www.fact-index.com/n/na/national_rifle_association.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Elmore Date: 31 Jul 13 - 12:42 PM Guest at 10:30 a.m. was me, sans cookie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 01:03 PM Nice post, SJL... I agree that the pro-Zimmerman camp comes off as not only racist but not capable of empathy toward Trayvon and his family... I don't know where you live or how old you are but I came up the 50s in the South... I have witnessed first hand the hate that way too many white people had and continue to have of black people... Unfortunately, this hatred goes way back and has been passed down from generation to generation... I'm old enough to remember the civil rights workers who were murdered back then... More recently 5 civil rights demonstrators were gunned down in Greensboro, NC in 1979 and no arrests were made... These people had mothers and fathers... Sisters, brothers, kids of their own... That is the real tragedy here that we still have pockets of rampant racism here in America... No, its not just the South but seems the South has more than its share... This idea that the jury has spoken and we need to get over it is unAmerican... It's not what our country should be about because if we allow anyone to be oppressed then we are all in danger of being oppressed... This needs to get solved... We either value life or we don't... It's that simple... If we don't value the lives of black people than why should we value the life of anyone??? That's the issue here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 13 - 01:37 PM ... the NRA was considered an enemy by the Ku Klux Klan. Please supply evidence of the truth of this statement, BlogoShit Bruce. Your "source" is a condensed article from Blog-O-Pedia, so is not a source at all. AND it doesn't address the original BullshitBruce posting that The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan. except between the lines where it tends to DISPROVE your bullshit. As usual, another steaming load of 14-karat horseshit. But thanks for playing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: beardedbruce Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:03 PM "Please supply evidence of the truth of this statement, BlogoShit Bruce." I have no need to further prove it- You claim it is BS, please prove that of shut the fuck up. Y"our "source" is a condensed article from Blog-O-Pedia, so is not a source at all." So I can disallow all uses of such by you and those you support? That leaves you exactly --- NOTHING to back up your claims. "AND it doesn't address the original BullshitBruce posting that A quote I posted- take it up with the black who wrote it. It is HIS opinion-which I consider as valid ( or more so ) as your. "The National Rifle Association was started, founded by religious leaders who wanted to protect free slaves from the Ku Klux Klan." That is what the posted section says- the people who founded the NRA had fought to end slavery, had acted to protect free slaves, and were hated by your friends the KKK because they supported arming blacks. Not their primary purpose, but part of the mindset of those founders. "except between the lines where it tends to DISPROVE your bullshit." How so, SFB? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Don Firth Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:08 PM Not only is the hatred, but in some cases the level of the hatred is downright appalling. I live in the Pacific Northwest (the opposite corner of the country from the South), not particularly known for its racial prejudice. A substantial percentage of Seattle's population, and of cities in the surrounding area, is a patchwork quilt of Asian and Black, along with a fair number of Native Americans. And we all live together and work together. But every now and then. . . . When I was going shooting with the fellow I've mentioned (the one who turned out to be a bit more trigger-happy than I felt it was safe to be around), another guy showed up at some of our "powder-burning" sessions. He favored a Ruger Super-Blackhawk .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun made—looks like an old fashioned six-shooter, but a real handful (he let me shoot a few rounds with it, and it was like firing a hand-held volcano!). He was from the South (I don't know which state) and he had a real "corn pone and chittlin's" accent. He also had a dog, a black Labrador, which he had named "Jigaboo," a disparaging Southern racial epithet for Blacks. One time when about four of us were plinking in an area with a good backstop (good place for it), a middle-age black man showed up to a little shooting, and this guy from the South was suddenly on edge. The only thing different about this man from the other people who were there was that he was Black. But the Southerner left off his target shooting and spent all of his time staring at the Black man and fondling his Ruger. It was patently obvious what was on his mind! There was absolutely nothing untoward about the Black man, he was quite polite and friendly. What he inspired in the Southerner was not fear, but unadulterated hatred, and what had all the symptoms of an urge to kill. In the Fifties, I knew several Black jazz musicians who hung out in The Chalet, a University District coffee house and sometimes had jam sessions in the evenings. The jazz combos were generally racially mixed, and although I was just getting into folk singing at the time, music was our common bond. I also worked at Boeing for a number of years, and one of my supervisors was Black. In fact, he and I often car-pooled to work. And at the telephone company, one of the supervisors there was a young Black man (he had a bit of an accent, and he told me that he was actually from Tonga). And one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen, in addition to being highly intelligent and a generally very nice person, was Rosetta, another co-worker with the phone company, who I often had coffee with And she was Black. When I encounter some people who hate other people for no good reason other than the melanin level in their skin, even to the extent sometimes that they want to kill them, I really wonder what in the hell is wrong with them!! Sick!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld' From: Bobert Date: 31 Jul 13 - 02:08 PM I don't read his stuff anymore, Greg, but there was a time when the NRA was upstanding and not at all political... I remember those days... I was not only a member but part of a shoot club that competed against other clubs... Today, however, they both tend to attract the same kinds of people: white, pissed off and with poor-me-victim complexes... B~ |
