BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:30 AM


Your argument that stuff in Martin's life prior to being murdered is fair game is not only wrong but down right disrespectful to the victim...

By "fair game" do you mean admissible as evidence.
It is usual for the judge to decide.

You know which one was "the victim" already?
How?

If the trial is conducted fairly then, yeah, that's the way it is supposed to work, however, we have already seen enough misconduct by both the judge and the defense team to see that is not the case here..

You think evidence should be withheld because you think the trial may not be fair?
That would make the trial unfair if it wasn't already!

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:37 AM

Bobert has already decided that the only "fair" trial is one where Zimmerman gets the maximum sentence, regardless of any evidence.

Since Bobert knows all, anything less would obviously be proof of "racial" prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:54 AM

No, Keith, I don't think "evidence" should be withheld... What I am saying is that whatever was on Martin's phone - unless it implicated that he knew Zimmerman and/or planned on hurting Zimmerman - is not evidence...

Richard Bridge, who is also an attorney, says it isn't evidence...

Seems the only folks who think it is evidence are the same people who didn't think Zimmerman should have been charged in the first place and that was long before anyone knew about Martin's cell phone...

Hmmmmm??? Seems that these folks have major prejudicial leanings about what really happened... Reminds me of the stuff that used to go on here in the South...

But again, Keith... Why is anything that Martin did prior to being murdered relevant to the case???

Please use facts and not irrational arguments that have been made here before that are not facts but obvious and ***admittedly*** fictional scenarios...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:54 AM

Anyway, Bobert has stated that he does not want a "fair" trial, he wants Zimmerman convicted. He already knows what happened, and has decided guilt.

"
From: Bobert - PM
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 12:52 PM

...
2. We agree but if Martin (the victim) gets a fair trial, Zimmerman has to be convicted of, at the very least, wrongful death...
"

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:59 AM

Richard Bridge: "I should also point out that if a man with a gun is following you, you are really quite likely reasonably to apprehend an intended assault, and are therefore entitled to use reasonable force in self defence.   So "Martin assaulted Zimmerman" is by no means a foregone conclusion."

Speaking of 'foregone conclusions' you seem to think that Martin KNEW that Zimmerman had a gun....would you, as an unarmed person, attack someone WITH a gun???
Your supposition, seems to have a bit of bias there, Ol' Chap!

Nobody KNOWS, not you, not Bobert, not any of us...so, as per aforementioned, 'Chill out!'

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:04 AM

You're right. Beardy. It is obviosly the iced tea that the entire case hinges upon.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: pdq
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:05 AM

"A witness in the George Zimmerman trial described his wounds as...'non–life threatening.' " ~ Valarie Rao

"Zimmerman, who faces a second-degree murder charge for shooting the unarmed teenager, said Martin repeatedly slammed his head against the ground. Rao told the jury she believed that happened maybe once."


Note how ABC "news" accentuates the "unarmed teenager" point for their purposes when it is not needed to convey the facts.

More important, both statements by Dr. Roa are opinions and should not be allowed to stand, just as the cop's opinion that "Zimmerman is telling the truth" was struck from the record by the judge.

Heck, if Zimmerman had already received "life-threatening injuries", he would not have been able to defend himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:21 AM

"You know which one was "the victim" already?
How?"

Are you joking?

In my experience, in a murder trial, the victim is is generally the dead one.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:24 AM

Bobert:
"
This case isn't an "Okay, I meet you on the street" case, bruce... This is a case where the victim was stalked and confronted... That is a major difference...

The facts of the case as we know them are that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a gun and confronted the victim... That isn't at all the scenario that you have just presented... Your scenario has nothing to do with the realities of this case...
"


Trial:

""Jurors today heard George Zimmerman's account in his own words of his fatal confrontation with Trayvon Martin as prosecutors played a dramatic audio tape of Zimmerman being questioned by police shortly after the shooting.

Zimmerman is heard telling a police officer how he saw Martin walking through his Sanford, Fla. neighborhood on a dark, rainy Feb. 2012 night. As a neighborhood watchman he tried to follow him in his car because there had been a series of break-ins in the gated community.

Zimmerman said he lost sight of Martin, got out of his car to call police and was walking back to his vehicle when the 17-year-old attacked him.

"He jumped out of the bushes and he said 'What the f..k is your problem, homie?'" Zimmerman said on the tape.

"And I got my cell phone out to call 911 this time, and I said 'I don't have a problem.' And he goes, 'No, now you have a problem,' and he punched me in the nose."

In court, jurors listened closely to the tape, while Zimmerman showed no emotion and Martin's father closed his eyes from time to time.

Zimmerman told police he fell down to the ground after being punched repeatedly. "I tried to defend myself. He just started punching me in the face, and I started screaming for help. I couldn't see. I couldn't breathe."

"He puts his hand on my nose and mouth, and he says 'You are going to die tonight.'

He said "the suspect" was "mounted on top of me" and began to bang his head onto the ground.

"As he banged my head again, I just pulled out my firearm and shot him," Zimmerman said."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:27 AM

Okay, GfinS...

Are you willing to admit that this trial is a sham if the stuff found on Martin's phone has nothing to do with the case... You, and others, seem is fine to parade your fishing expedition out there that somehow because Martin did this or that in the past justified Zimmerman, who BTW didn't know Martin or if he even owned a cell phone, in murdering Martin...

That's the issue here... The defense and the judge seem to have no problem allowing Martin's past to be used to paint Martin as someone that needed to be murdered... For what??? Smoking pot and talking smack??? If that was a capital offense in America then about 300,000,000 Americans deserve to be murdered...

More insanity from the King of Insanity...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:29 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/george-zimmerman-trial-race-is-a-subtext-not-the-focus/2013/07/02/a296611e-e262-11e2-a11e

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:35 AM

Washington Post says "page not found", Beardy (big surprise. b

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 11:40 AM

Mudcat Linkmaker:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/george-zimmerman-trial-race-is-a-subtext-not-the-focus/2013/07/02/a296611e-e262-11e2-a11e

Entered link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/george-zimmerman-trial-race-is-a-subtext-not-the-focus/2013/07/02/a296611e-e262-11e2-a11e-c2ea876a8f30_story_1.html




So the Link maker truncates, and "Liberal Voice " claims a victory....

I guess Liberals need to claim whatever victories they can, since they can't supply facts to support their viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:38 PM

the fuckin horse your beating is dead folks ... no one is going to budge on their opinions so why fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:38 PM

That's right, Beardy, its always someone else's fault, never yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:40 PM

here is the reader digest condensed version ... two guys got into a confrontation. Both guys too macho to run away .. had to show off their testosterone. One is dead the other's life is ruined forever no matter how it shakes out

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:46 PM

people forget that OJ was a Buffalo Bill. He would come to buffalo to sign autographs and people lined the streets. After the trial he couldn't give away the damn things. The lawsuit took away his home and cash. His life ruined even though he was found not guilty. Then he commits another crime and ends up in jail for 30 years. Nobody is going to win on this one either way

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:46 PM

Not quite, Ol'ster...

One guy stalks another guy with a gun... The stalked party gets murdered in the course of defending himself...

Why is the stalker getting a pass??? He instigated the confrontation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 12:54 PM

And Bobert knows what he is saying- after all, he was there, right??????




NOT.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:17 PM

Bobert: "Are you willing to admit that this trial is a sham if the stuff found on Martin's phone has nothing to do with the case..."

Huh??....That's like asking me if it would be a sham, if he was watching cartoons on his T.V earlier in the day...Who knows what's on his phone..AND , more so, a phone narrative, is not conclusive that the narrative isn't colored, to fit the persons having it....so I guess the answer to your question is 'Maybe, Maybe not.'

Bobert: "You, and others, seem is fine to parade your fishing expedition out there that somehow because Martin did this or that in the past justified Zimmerman,...."

I have said nothing of the sort..you just interjected that. You're starting to use Firth's tactic, of making up stuff that nobody said, and then arguing it, as if it was said!


Bobert: " who BTW didn't know Martin or if he even owned a cell phone, in murdering Martin..."

Or a gun, for that matter..

You really gotta relax a second...take it easy...take a big breath. You're getting so wound up in this that your starting to show signs of mental and emotional fatigue.

Like i said before, NOBODY knows for sure what happened..let it play out...and BTW, the prosecution is fucking up his own case, more than Zimmerman's own defense.

Regardless, I have my hunches, that usually bear out...but CALM really is the best place to stay!

...I mean, I think it would be silly to get so worked up about it, that I'd take to the streets, waving a piano over my head, huh?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:19 PM

Sanford Police Chief Cecil Smith and other city officials are worried that the outcome of the George Zimmerman trial could spark "violence" and have crafted a "secret law enforcement" plan to deal with potential social disorder.

A CNN report shows Sanford police going door to door in an attempt to calm residents about possible unrest in response to the Zimmerman verdict.
"Our worst fear is that we will have people from outside of the community coming in and stirring up….violence in the community," Smith told CNN's David Mattingly.
Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett echoes Smith's concerns, warning that just one person intent on violence could spark wider disorder and "a provocation of violence".
City Manager Norton Bonaparte is similarly on edge, fearing a Rodney King-style riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty.
"I'm saying that's a scenario that's certainly a possibility," said Bonaparte, adding that plans had been made through law enforcement but that he would not go into detail on the nature of what they were.
Police Chief Cecil Smith was similarly evasive when asked if SWAT teams or "special personnel" were on standby to respond to disorder.
"As far as the particulars of the plans, we're not releasing that," Smith told CNN.
Authorities have also enlisted the help of local pastors who are acting as "observers" in the Zimmerman trial and will then report back to their congregation.
The involvement of pastors is interesting in light of a program first reported by Infowars back in 2006 under which the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) was training pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the government" in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation.
As we reported earlier today, scores of Twitter users have threatened to riot and loot if George Zimmerman is acquitted.
Other prominent voices have also warned of potential civil unrest, including former Chicago police officer Paul Huebl, who said that he fully expects "organized race rioting to begin in every major city to dwarf the Rodney King and the Martin Luther King riots of past decades" if Zimmerman walks.
With police already going door to door to calm Sanford residents in anticipation of unrest, some are worried that social disorder could be used as a pretext for gun confiscation in a similar vein to how Hurricane Katrina was used as a justification to disarm residents of New Orleans.


http://www.infowars.com/sanford-police-chief-fears-violence-in-response-to-zimmerman-verdict/

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:40 PM

INFOWARS, Beardie? WEith Alex Jones, world-famous conspiracy theorist and general all-around lunatic?

This is beneath even your usual standard of horseshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 01:42 PM

"This is beneath even your usual standard of horseshit."

You mean I am approaching your standards, Greggie boy?????

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:06 PM

No, I don't. Nor does anyone else who has followed your posting history.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:11 PM

Well, they should worry because if Zimmerman walks, gun confiscation will probably occur just as it did during Katrina. That is, whether violence erupts or not, as one of the "pre-emptive" (where you are penalized for what you might do rather than what you do) measures our government is so fond of these days. And once confiscated, they won't get them back.

The police should have arrested and charged Zimmerman with at least manslaughter and Trayvon's parents should have been notified immediately. Basic things. A lot of this is on the Sanford police IMO. It's the ultimate irony that they will now provide a secret remedy for an outrageous situation that they themselves helped to create.

At the end of the day, I'm glad I live in an area where what George Zimmerman did wouldn't fly. People around here do not get rewarded for disregarding instructions from law enforcement and dispatchers are considered representatives of their departments at any given time- a little common sense. Having a law like Stand Your Ground is akin to deputizing all gun owners. Let's turn State St. into the Wild West. Sure. Why not? Like it's not enough of a mess with three rowdy bars in close proximity.

GfS, it really does look like they're throwing the fight. Do you think it could have anything to do with the fact that George Zimmerman's father was a magistrate in the Virginia court system. Think of what a valuable resource that is in the real world, in terms of connections, and more importantly legal knowledge and advice. I don't think that book he wrote made any sense except to a racist. It's a hoot though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_DBEmPjkac&sns=em

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:13 PM

I had a feeling that some 'unrest' might occur, but I hadn't heard of all this other stuff, Bruce. Do y9ou think the government, in concert with the corporate media is fanning this(with the help of our resident 'fans') to instigate unrest..and using the case to spark it?
Just a question.....and I hope the answer is 'No'....nonetheless, I'm sure there are political idiots out there who would want it to go viral!
Mayne, even in here..God Forbid!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:20 PM

Just a little sample of the reliability and rationality of Infowars (Alex Jones).

Absolutely bat shit crazy and obnoxious on the BBC June 9, 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc8DEpM4-6A

click

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:30 PM

No idea how true any of these details are - but the "Liberal Agenda" is to outlaw private firearm ownership- How better than more riots? It will be "Temporary, for our own good".

Got to make sure the "Peeple" are under control, and do what they are told.


And riots would distract from all of Obama's other problems.

Just look at how 1968 got Johnson off the heat for Vietnam.

Of course, the entire population, minorities included, lost a lot, but since when have people with a "Cause" ever worried about the impact of heir manipulations? Dead black teenagers only matter when they can be used for political purposes, or this administration would have done far more in minority communities than it has.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:42 PM

Greggie,


s\So you think that CNN is not a good enough source, when you don't agree with it???



A CNN report shows Sanford police going door to door in an attempt to calm residents about possible unrest in response to the Zimmerman verdict.
"Our worst fear is that we will have people from outside of the community coming in and stirring up….violence in the community," Smith told CNN's David Mattingly.
Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett echoes Smith's concerns, warning that just one person intent on violence could spark wider disorder and "a provocation of violence".
City Manager Norton Bonaparte is similarly on edge, fearing a Rodney King-style riot if Zimmerman is found not guilty.
"I'm saying that's a scenario that's certainly a possibility," said Bonaparte, adding that plans had been made through law enforcement but that he would not go into detail on the nature of what they were.
Police Chief Cecil Smith was similarly evasive when asked if SWAT teams or "special personnel" were on standby to respond to disorder.
"As far as the particulars of the plans, we're not releasing that," Smith told CNN.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:46 PM

No idea how true any of these details are

Of COURSE you're not, Beardy, but nonetheless you still willingly and enthusiastically smear this horesehit all over the place with abandon.

As expected.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:47 PM

Greggie,

You and Bobert are the ones engaged in shit-spreading- It seems to be your true area of expertise. You must take pride in being so talented.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 02:57 PM

Pastors aim to keep peace at Zimmerman trial
By Mark I. Pinsky, special to CNN

Sanford, Florida (CNN) – As opening arguments begin, courtroom seats are at a premium at the trial of George Zimmerman, charged with second degree murder in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager.

But in an unusual arrangement, four seats in the second row, just steps from the jury box, have been assigned to a group called "Sanford Pastors Connecting."

The multi-racial ministerial association has pledged to bear witness to the high-profile proceedings during the trial and to keep the peace afterward.

All of the clergy in the courtroom project have agreed to support the jury's verdict in the racially-charged case, which sparked large rallies and marches led by civil rights figures like the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

As needed, the pastors will report courtroom events to crowds expected to gather outside the courthouse, as well as to their congregations, and have agreed to head off inflammatory rumors.

"Regardless of what the verdict is, we can avoid the violence," said the Rev. Robert K. Gregory Jr., of the Good News Jail & Prison Ministry in Sanford. "If we work together, trust can be built."

Zimmerman, a member of the Neighborhood Watch in his gated community, is accused of stalking and fatally shooting Martin, who was staying with his father, on February 26, 2012.

The defense claims that Martin, returning from a convenience store, turned on Zimmerman, who then fired in self-defense.

The Zimmerman trial: What you need to know

Two dozen media spaces on the courtroom's polished wooden seats have been assigned by lottery, with an equal amount set aside for the general public. Another twelve spots in the rectangular chamber are reserved for the Zimmerman and Martin families.

The pastoral rotation is the idea of the U.S. Department of Justice's Community Relations Service. A Seminole County Sheriff's inspector, who is also an ordained minister, handles the scheduling. Among the Christian clergy who have signed up, there are evangelical and mainline congregations; tiny, urban parishes and suburban megachurches.

"We're looking at providing leadership, to comfort people through the word of God and prayer," said the Rev. Sharon Patterson, of Getting Your House in Order Ministries, a small African-American congregation.

"We want our presence to encourage them to understand that as long as God is in control, everything will work out all right," the pastor said.

Patterson brings a particular past to her courtroom witnessing. She once aspired to be a lawyer herself, spending summers when she was first teaching public school, and had no air conditioning at home, going from trial to trial.

While most Sanford-area African-American congregations rallied around the Martin family and their call for justice immediately following the shooting, some predominately white churches and clergy were divided.

The Rev. Alan Brumback, pastor of Sanford's Central Baptist Church, was one of the first – and few – local white clergy to join the predominately black marches and demonstrations in the wake of the Martin shooting.

However, Brumback, whose congregation is multi-racial, said he would not be a part of the courtroom program.

"I am calling my church to pray for our city and to share the only news that can bring reconciliation," he said, "the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is my only agenda."

Live blog: Zimmerman trial begins

Whatever it is, the verdict will be God's will, said the Rev. Lowman J. Oliver III of St. Paul Missionary Baptist Church in Sanford.

"We pray that the outcome will be just and fair to all parties," he said. "How will it look? I'm not able to answer that. Our roles are as peacemakers. It's more important that we send a message that we sustain the peace."

However, Oliver said, peaceful acceptance of a verdict does not mean people will have to agree with it. They can certainly have "a righteous response," as long as it is nonviolent.

"There is a history of division in this community, and there is a history involving violence against black youth" that must be addressed, said the Rev. Joel Hunter, of Northland Church in Longwood, Florida. A prominent evangelical, Hunter is also a close confidant of President Obama's.

After a long, tedious day of sitting together during jury selection, Hunter, Oliver and Gregory were finishing each other's sentences.

Laughing, they admitted that they were unused to sitting still and silent in unpadded pews for so long – while others did the talking.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pastors-aim-to-keep-peace-at-zimmerman-trial/

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:01 PM

Paregoric, Beardy, Paregoric's the thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:03 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/03/justice/zimmerman-trial-updates/index.html

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 03:12 PM

Bobert.
whatever was on Martin's phone - unless it implicated that he knew Zimmerman and/or planned on hurting Zimmerman - is not evidence...

If it is not, the defence will not be able to use it, so why withhold it?

Richard Bridge, who is also an attorney, says it isn't evidence...
Richard Bridge may be an attorney, but he does not know what it is, so how can he state that?

But again, Keith... Why is anything that Martin did prior to being murdered relevant to the case???

The jury have to decide if M attacked Z.
They have to make a judgement on how he might behave in that situation.
His past behaviour is relevant.
Sorry, but it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 05:12 PM

What you are missing here, Keith, is that the stuff on Martin's phone has been made public - by Zimmerman's attorney - which tends to poison the jury pool... That is wrong and the judge should have issued a gag order on both the defense and the prosecution...

This is what bad justice looks like...

If the defense had taken the material to the judge - in his chamber - in the first place for a ruling on whether or not it was related to the case then I'd have no problem what so ever...

Basic law... Not brain surgery here...

Martin's civil rights have been trampled here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 05:58 PM

Bobert: "What you are missing here, Keith, is that the stuff on Martin's phone has been made public -.."

Ya' know, Martin seem to know he was being followed, right?...and was bugged about it, right?...bad enough that he turned around and confronted Zimmerman, right? ..and all the while, he's talking to his girl friend, right?...OK..I think we could all agree on that. the question would then go to, Do you think Trayvon really felt in jeopardy? Right? Some say he did..some say not...well, if I was being followed by a guy who had a gun, and I knew it..and I felt threatened by it...and had a cell phone, I'd be calling 911....wouldn't you???

Right!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 06:00 PM

Bruce, I found out about Katrina from the NRA, stay away from infowars. Alex Jones, while presenting certain facts, is framing them in the most provocative way possible, inciting unrest. Infowars is creating a nice hotspot for NSA surveillance. Alex Jones is a government shill.

I only support revolutionaries who preach non-violence and don't go on about the second amendment. Our forefathers could never have imagined the state of weapons technology today. Your government has you so outgunned, you're going to need to find another way to protest the mechanisms of what I like to refer to as the "State Apparatus." I think that's what Edward Snowden had in mind but it seems to have backfired somewhat.

Civil disobedience and peaceful protest are still time honored methods of making your point- unless of course you're still waiting for your "change" from Obama. The guy's a bust in that department. If I was a pastor in Sanford, I would refuse to be enlisted by the Sanford police to quell civil unrest- not after the way they protected George Zimmerman and disregarded Trayvon's family. Instead, I would tend to my own flock and invoke Dr. King in hopes that in my community, things would not go on that reinforce the worst stereotypes of racists. I would develop my own secret plan. My secret plan would go into effect if Zimmerman walked.

I would organize a peaceful protest of the verdict and fail to apply for a permit. You're not supposed to have to get special permission to exercise a right. Then face down on the ground with hoodies up. Right in the middle of a non-designated "free speech zone" like say, all along Main St. from one end of town to the other. But you'd have to stay down from say like noon to 3. That's plenty long enough to lay face down on the ground. From what I've heard from peaceful protesters, that's where the specially trained riot police want you anyway (On the ground!). Why not save them the trouble of putting you there? Better visual to make the point anyway. The way I see it, assembling and dispersing would be the tricky part cuz you have to stand up for that. Otherwise, my secret plan is solid.

Shhh...Secret plan. Let it be said that we took the verdict lying down :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 07:40 PM

Who knows, GfinS... The only story we have is from a guy who has already been caught lying about other stuff... Zimmerman has no credibility here...

Do you have any money???

No... A big fat lie...

Do you have knowledge of Florida's stand your ground laws???

No... Another big fat lie...

Bottom line here???

The fact's haven't changed... Zimmerman stalks Martin... Zimmerman calls police... Police tell him to stay in his vehicle and that real cops are on the way... Zimmerman gets out of car and approaches Martin with a gun... Martin gets murdered by Zimmerman...

Everything else really doesn't much matter... That ***is*** the case...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:16 PM

Well, if that is the case, I'm sure he could get convicted on the charge of lying. Your scenario has WAY too many skips and blank spots...so if I were you, I wouldn't get all worked up about it based on your 'analysis'.

As I noted before, this is a case of young guys, misreading each other, and the circumstances. Why Zimmerman didn't stay in his truck, is as flimsy as Martin not calling 911....had either one of those things happened...this thread wouldn't be here today!

..and then you'd still be waiting for another incident to play the apologetic for.
This really is overblown by the media..and also he's being tried in the media, instead of the courts....and ALL the wannabe armchair lawyers and wannabe political activists are having a field day, getting their legal briefs from T.V. anchormen and all the hype....well almost all of the wannabe activists...Firth has wisely abstained!
...as far as I'm concerned, let the courts handle it....the prosecutors, in my opinion, fucked up when they charged him for first degree, instead of a lower charge....now proving first degree, is WAY harder with the evidence that the have shown, SO FAR! Manslaughter, they had a far better chance with..first degree...mmm..not so sure.
Stupid fuckers should have stayed in his car, and/or Martin should have dialed 911. You ever wonder if Martin talking to his chick might have said, "Fuckin' honky followin' me, here, you listen, I'm goin' to take his fuckin' honky ass out!"......maybe it's a good thing they withheld it and left something like that out!
Now don't 'soil' your panties..it was only a 'what if' supposition.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:23 PM

yup but Martin should have taken off running away when he knew he was being followed. Zimmerman should have stayed in the car. My point I think is still valid, Macho behavior and who has the biggest dick thing. and now one dead and the others life ruined even if he walks or is found guilty it is over for him. Sad but a good lesson for others on what not to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:26 PM

I'm not "all worked up", GfinS... I saw OJ get away with murder... I know what the deal is here...

I'm just calling the ballgame as I see it...

Zimmerman will get his no matter the outcome of this case... Karma will fuck him up for what he has done...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:31 PM

I don't know Manslaughter would have been easier to prove. 2nd degree murder much harder to prove. Don't get me wrong I think myself he is guilty as sin but like I said Florida, that f'd up state ... I bet he walks away and I also bet there will be riots again from all those who don't like the verdict. Fucked up world we live in anymore .. I didn't like it when OJ walked either but I didn't want to set anything on fire because of it. We see this a lot sadly only a couple of people don't like a verdict then it is fun and games from a mass of humanity. Kinda like when the home town team wins something .. for some damn reason people look for any reason to riot. I mean good people who wouldn't think of doing that are jumping on cars or rushing out on the field to tear up the stadium .. someone has to explain that crowd dynamic to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 08:37 PM

How do you know you he didn't, Ol'ster...

This entire story is being concocted by a ***proven*** liar who is trying to save his own ass...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:02 PM

Either way it goes, rioting or any other form of civil unrest that may come of this, is just as fucked up as the act itself!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: olddude
Date: 03 Jul 13 - 10:18 PM

point well taken bobster I don't know you are right and he may have

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 01:53 AM


This entire story is being concocted by a ***proven*** liar who is trying to save his own ass...

Very likely.
The jury will be aware that the guilty always lie at their trial anyway, and will put little or no weight on his assertions.

It is not at all unusual for a killer to plea self defence.
Guilty or not, the jury must acquit unless convinced beyond reasonable doubt that the deceased did not attack the accused.

Apart from the conflicting evidence, they will also need to assess the position of the deceased on a scale from violent thug to gentle saint.
They will need evidence of his past to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 08:38 AM

""When asked by Bobert, I supplied a scenario where the phone TEXT messages might be significant evidence. He never bothered to comment on that. Why do you insist on talking about only the photos? Is your argument so weak that you must resort to using that sort of tactic?""

Because the defence, who were definitely aware of the photos when they complained, have complained of no other items from the phone. No such evidence as your hypothetical nonsense would have escaped complaint, had any such existed.

Remember that the complaints were made after the substance was known to the defence. They could hardly complain before they knew there was something to complain about.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 08:45 AM

""In ANY case, if one reverses the races of the individuals involved, and comes to a different conclusion, then one is a racist. Period. Too many here have demonstrated that that is what they are,""

Still obfuscation and disingenuous avoidance of answering a very pertinent question.

If the neighbourhood watchman had been black (pretty unlikely in Sanford) and the dead man been white, do YOU believe the authorities would have been as reluctant to act as they were in this case?

A simple YES! or NO! is all that's required to answer this simple question.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 13 - 08:48 AM

Thank you, Don T... I guess that was written by the usual suspect whose posting I no longer bother to read...

Sorry, Keith, but whether Martin was a thug or a saint is not relevant here... Zimmerman didn't know who the hell Treyvon Martin was... Plus, being a thug does not carry the death sentence as long as the thug doesn't commit murder...

Was Martin a murderer???

Your position is the same as a defense attorney asking a rape victim about her sexual past as if that justified the rape...

Your thinking is flawed here...

B~