BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 06:35 PM

Man, I ain't even HEARD from the doc about an MRI and I called yesterday.

We'll outlive 'em all yet, dude -- and dance on their graves.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 07:29 PM

Danged right, Rap...

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Skivee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 08:51 PM

Will that be clog dancin' or Irish Step?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:01 PM

Well, if I'm dancin' with Bobert it ain't gonna be cheek-to-cheek....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:04 PM

Party Pooper. Poop Head. WHY not???? We LUVZ the Bobert!

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 09:11 PM

He don't shave all that close and I get beard-burn easy. Just ask some of the girls I dated in college.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM

I'll shave, dangit...

BTW, what kinda girls did you date in college that gave you "beard burn"...

Nevermind... I get it now... Naughty little boy, weren't you...lol...

Off to Winchester...

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 09:46 AM

Good luck, pal.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:52 PM

Turns out that I won't be gettin' the MRI 'til early next week but...

... I did see the doc and he is 90% certain that it's gonna show a herniated disc and if so he wants to...

...yeah, cut me up, remove the sumabich and graft two vertibrea (sp?) together...

Gonna have to read up on this stuff yo see if there are any alternatives...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:56 PM

Next Wednesday, 10:30 a.m. (12:30 p.m. your time) for my MRI, Bobert.

Iffen it's a herniated disk couldn't you just be fitted up with truss or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 04:58 PM

Bobert

I had this in the lumbar region a few years back. I stayed away from the doctors and underwent quite a lot of chiropractic, together with complete rest, which solved the problem.

An orthopaedic consultant later told me that, if it hadn't been for the chiropractic I would have had to have that surgery, which can leave problems of its own, I believe.

All good wishes to you - I know how painful a herniated disc can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM

Mine is a cervical disc, jacgui...

I'm gonna think long and hard on what to do here... I ain't jumpion' on no cuttin' table...

I gotta a good friend in Florida who is a good chiroprator... I'm gonna have a good talk with him...

I just read up a little on this an' it says that some folks get operated on and it don't help them... Others say they lose their voice... Hmmmmm, yeah, I'm thinkin' of Kendall here, fir sure...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 06:07 PM

I had an MRI 7-8 years ago...had bone spur on 3rd cervical vertebra which pinched the nerve to my arm. I got a shot of Cortisone right in the area to shrink the tissue. It helped a LOT, but I still have to be very careful about how I move my neck. I do this to avoid surgery.

I have no doubt this is not nearly the problem as a herniated disc...but maybe it's worth asking the doc about.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Janie
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 09:43 PM

Oh Jeez, Bobert - I hope they don't have to amputate at the neck!

Seriously, whatever the MRI shows, and whatever is recommended - get a second opinion.   If the recommendations are very ambiguous, then get a third opinion, preferably from outside of your immediate hospital region.

If I can find it again I'll send you some links on interesting research regarding orthopedics. There are significant regional differences in how often surgery to the spine is recommended, and the rates of spinal surgery by region.   

I do a fair amount of pain management work with people with chronic orthopedic pain. Outcomes post surgery with respect to pain tend to be generally better today than they were 15 or 20 years ago, but are clearly not guaranteed. The cervical area seems to be particularly delicate. Some orthopedic practices may be a bit too quick to recommend surgery (not for reasons of monetary gain, but because of perspective.) However, there appears to be a delicate balance when it comes to trying other things first. It would seem (and I am basing this primarily on client self-report) that damage to the cervical spine can be progressive if no intervention occurs, or if non-surgical interventions are unsuccessful and surgery is put off too long. A point can be reached where the damage is such that surgery is no longer a viable option, especially if you have arthritis, or develop arthritis as a result of the injury to the cervical spine.

If you already have have osteoarthritis or degenerative disc disease, or a strong family history of it with early onset, be sure you explore the implications with the doctors with whom you consult regarding possible outcomes when considering any of your options, surgical or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 09:47 PM

Bobert's got a cervix?? Here all along I thought....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:06 PM

Well..............You ain't gonna' like this but................

Herniated discs come in several types and affect the spine in different ways no matter where they are located...cervical, thoracic, or lumbar. The disc is a cushion that separates the vertebra and allow them to bend and move with some freedom. The disc itself has a reasonably firm "shell" and a softer interior. As we age the material gets harder......shame it ain't your.......uh, sorry........Anyway, "herniated" means ruptured or broken. Too often we call this a slipped disc. It isn't. Discs don't slip. Period. The end. Complete horseshit. You can't stick them back into place.

Every vertebra has notches in it that match with another notch in the discs above and below forming a hole for the nerve to pass through as it exits the spinal cord.   Where these nerves go determine much of where the pain is. For instance in what is commonly referred to as "sciatica" the nerve at the bottom of the last Lumbar vertebra becomes inflamed as the disc material pushes on it OR the vertebra themselves are too close and the nerve opening (intervertebral foramen) is too small. The inflamed nerve causes pain in the back itself and often continues for the length and branching of the nerve. In the case of the sciatic nerve the pain is in the lower back and will extend down through the buttocks, hips, thighs, knees, calves, and clear to the foot.

The same thing happens wherever this occurs in the spinal column and the nerve affected can be only minimally aggravating or completely debillitating. It simply depends on how the disc is herniated and how badly. Many people can use the treatments of heat and cold as you have in conjunction with both rest and proper exercises to get past an acute attack. In some cases, anti-inflammatory meds are used and these are both the non-steroidal type such as Naprosyn or even Aspirin and the steroidal type which help in an even stronger way by binding with cortisol receptors. NONE OF THESE and no amount of manipulation will "cure" the problem. However if the hernaition is not severe and the acute phase can be managed through one or more of the above methods you will just need to be careful in the future, do the exercises, and jump on the drugs at the first sign of trouble.

On the other hand, the problem will still be there and may become worse as you go along. No legitimate orthopede will do surgery if it isn't warranted and that's why all the tests. Many of them will try various drug and exercise combinations and even refer you to pain clinics. But if it comes to the point where nothing helps...............................

Bobertz I know you know what a "Midget" is.   In '75 I had a bad crash and my lower back took a bad hit. As I aged I also developed a form of arthritis common to many that is not age dependent. Its called degenerative disc disease and that combined with the effect of the injury started creating problems. In my mid 30's I would have periods where I would be "out of action" for a week or longer. Most times I would "tough it out" like a dumbass and I took NSAIDs like candy, also like a dumbass. This meant that I hurt for months on end but I was somewhat able to do things. I'd have a month or two of "almost normal," then another attack. I was teaching Auto-Tech at a Vo-Tech when I was 40 and my back had become so bad that I could put no pressure on my legs at all. The lower back itself hurt so damn bad it was unbelievable.    As the school year ended I was unable to walk and EVERY position was pain filled, even laying down except in ridiculous positions. For a month I laid on a day bed and crawled back and forth to the bathroom.   The Ortho said I would need surgery and laid out the possible side effects which aren't all that appealing. But they ARE just POSSIBLE side effects and for me the question was simple. Can I live in this pain the rest of my life or not. I couldn't. I was at the point I was ready to kill to GET the surgery!

I came out of surgery with no problems and Karen will tell you that my worst time was the day after when they had promised to help me up out of bed. I was a mean bastard all day as I couldn't wait to see if the pain had really gone. I stood up to my full height for the first time in months and the pain was gone! I will never forget that feeling. I had three done--L4-L5-S1

I know other people who have had longer recoveries or been left with some problems like numbness. A friend of mine had a similar procedure as you are looking at and was amazed at how quickly he recovered. Another friend still has numbness almost 20 years later. Both would do it again as would I. I have had no problems since but when I think about the year I spent pre-op, it a gawdamn nightmare Man.........

For years I had tried all manner of manipulations and treatments from chiropractic to herbalists to hynotism to accupunture and none of it worked. If you understand how the back functions and what the discs do, you can see why. The problem is never truly repaired and IF it continues to worsen, only the surgical option will work. And btw, there are times they CAN'T do surgery.

So here's my message to you.........If you want to research something, find the best ortho you can in your area or even in the next large city. One of the keys to getting through ANY surgery (and I've had way too damn many) is to have confidence in the Cutter. When you are comfortable with the Doc and he says you need surgery, remember your other option which is live in pain. If your problem has become as bad as you are describing it, you probably DO need surgery. See what the MRI looks like but if you need surgery, DO IT. Or decide you can live with the pain for the rest of your life and have a Coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. I'll send my best thoughts and everyone else will as well but you're gonna' be in pain if its as bad as you say.

Damn but I feel good! Sorry 'bout you...............

Spaw-----passing on my best wishes, thoughts and TOUGH LOVE.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:09 PM

Good post Janie......I was writing mine when you posted.....Great advice!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Janie
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:31 PM

What can I say, 'Spaw? Great minds think alike!

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:36 PM

And, I had a herniated cervical disc, C5. The one just above the big bump on your neck. I put up with pain, numbness, severe muscle spasms, etc for years longer than I should have. When I finally started having such bad numbness that I was trying to drop the fiddle or bow, I saw a Neuro surgeon.

The chiropractic had sorta kept it at bay for years, but not fixed it. The hernia was bad....and yes, I got 3 opinons. All said, surgery. So I did.

It is called a laminectomy; basically they just go in and nip off the protruding part of the disc. Out patient surgery. In and out in 4 hours. NO troble from the surgery. I went fabric shopping after I got out of the surgery center.

The ONLY problem I had was that I turned out to be allergic to the absorble suture material they used, and so got an infection in the incision. If my Husband had been able to recognize infection, I'd have been fine much sooner. As it is, I have a pretty deep, ugly scar on the back of my neck just above the t shirt line. Doesn't bother ME, I can't see it. But it itches sometimes.

The fiddle is still all in one piece too.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 11:02 AM

Spaw, you hold him down (shouldn't be hard) and I'll do the cuttin'. Might was well just cut "everything" while we're at it, huh?

Stubborn danged hillbillies....

Bobert, you ever hear of Georgetown University Hospital? It's a big ol' hospital where they teach medicine. It's in a sleepy little town nearby you called Washington, DC. They got some purty good doctors there who teach other folks how to be doctors, kinda like a good banjo player is supposed to teach newbies, if there was such a thing as a good banjo player. The bone doctor in charge there is named Sam W. Wiesel. They also got a deal with Fairfax Hospital.

Now up in Charlottesville they got ANOTHER goddamn teaching hospital at the university up thatway. The boner in charge is named Cato T. Laurencin; he's a PhD and an MD and looks like he'd be a Memphis bluesman.

Now you gotta choice! DC, Charlottesville, or me and Spaw. Which is it gonna be?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 11:49 AM

Thanks, folks, for sharing yer experiences with me... All this stuff is comfortin'...

Ifinz I gotta get cut I'm gonna Charlottesville... It's only an hour and 20 minutes drive... I'm going there fir the MRI either Monday 'er Tuesday and they are gonna send the films to the doc I saw yesterday... If he says "chop, chop" after seein' 'um I'll get up with the guy in C-Ville fir a 2nd opinion an' if that guy says "chop, chop" then I'll give you a call, Rap...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 12:19 PM

Right Spaw, I'll hold him down, Rap can get the hammer, and when I nod my head, you hit it!

OK, quite clear?

G

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: GUEST,Terp
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:20 AM

I had a herniation between cervical disc 5&6 about 17 years ago and after consultations with 2 different orthopedic surgeons, 6 weeks of PT (which only aggravated things) and about 6 months of pain in my neck and shoulder which at times radiated down to the finger tips of my left hand I took the advice of a friend and got a home traction device from the local drug store. I used this very simple device, hung on the top of a door edge, 3 times a day for 20 minutes a session and in 2 weeks no more pain. I had a bit of a relapse 2 months later and did another 2 weeks on it and haven't had any problems in that area since. Just my story.Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:38 AM

I had a similar problem, and but vibro-massage and specific exercise it was cured. If I get a return twinge I do the neck exercise the physio gave me at that time, and it goes away again.
G

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:30 AM

Since we honestly don't know what Bobert's problem is...no, let me rephrase that.

Since we honestly don't know what THIS problem of Bobert's is, I think we have to wait for the MRI results.

I rephrased that because we know what Bobert's problem(s) is/are, it's just this specific one we're unsure about. I mean, when I first saw this thread title my reaction was, "Yeah, we know that and what else is news?"

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:32 AM

Remember Rap; when I nod my head, hit it.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: jacqui.c
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:36 AM

But be careful, Rap, not to knock Giok's glasses off.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Janie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:53 AM

Now Rap - why does he need to go to all the trouble and expense of an MRI and a damn medical opinion - look at all the perfectly free advice we are all giving him here!

I think he should take the money we've saved him and buy another guitar. What with the high cost of medical care, there'd probably be enough dough left over to do a little Christmas shopping and get BWL that new dobro he's been wanting.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 10:55 AM

Well Janie, he said he can't play the ones he has!

G

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Janie
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 11:10 AM

By the time he has scrupulously followed all of our medical instruction, you Spaw and Rap have finished with the hammer, and the P-vine is done jerking a knot in his tail, he won't be so limited in technique as to need the use of his arms or fingers to play....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 11:44 AM

Not to fear folks...

I'll be at the Getaway, with geetars, and with fully functional appendages, filanges, etc...

(Boy, Boberdz, ya' really left an openin' there with that last comment...)

Ignore this post... It's the painkiller's talkin'...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Becca72
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:48 PM

My own 2 cents...

I herniated L5-S1 a year and a half ago and walked into the Neurosurgeon's office (barely) with my sister who, several years before, had the same issue and was basically disabled by the surgery and said "what can you do for me that doesn't involve cutting?".

It took a loooong time. Prednisone and Vicodin were my best friends. Now I'm very aware of how I'm bending and what I'm lifting, etc, but the pain's gone. But it was over a year to be "back to normal". It don't happen quick-like.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM

Bobert, you go see the bluesman up in Charlottesville. Iffen you see my cousin-in-law up there say "Howdy" for me. He's in the French Dept. so you'd better say it in French, which is "Houdee" if I remember right.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:16 PM

Let me reinforce two truths that Becca just posted. First, good Ortho/Neuro folks don't want to go the surgical option until it is the last option. However, there are situations like mine where it IS the last option as I'd been through all the medical/therapy/exercise things that you could do.....and they had all quit working.

Keep in mind that upon occasion there is no surgical option either and you'er stuck with learning to live with the pain. While its true you need second opinions and you don't want to leap to surgery, if that is what fixes things its stupid as hell to rule it out.

I didn't want the surgery at first either but after years of slowly getting worse, my last attack never went away at all I was ready to kill to get it done.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM

I'm gonna do just that, Spawzer, if the first guy says "chop, chop"...

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 03:28 PM

I'm tellin' ya, Spaw'll hold ya down and I'll cut away anything I see. Won't charge ya all that much either. Just for the beer.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 03:44 PM

Just don't be afraid to go for "chop-chop" if the the other guys say so.............Don't have it in your mind that these guys are all just dying to cut you open......they aren't. AND there are some surgical options that don't involve cutting. Many laminectomies are done with minimally invasive surgical techniques and you're out the next day with no pain. If a fusion is needed, that's another story.

Just relax. So......out of curiosity, have you ever had surgery of any sort? The way you keep goin' on I figger you fer a nooby.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 04:54 PM

Looky here, Bobert. Backaways I needed to get the inside of my right knee cleaned up -- I'd fallen and ripped the shit out of the meniscus (some of the cushioning stuff in there). The doc thought so, and the MRI said so. So I got 'er done. They went in using an incision one-half inch long (if you can't picture half an inch, it's about half the length of the middle joint of your right hand index finger). I was out cold from both the drugs and that open-down-the-back hospital gown. When I woke up I walked down to the car (they wanted to use a wheelchair but I said no), went home, dropped the ol' Vicodin, found out that I really, really fly on that stuff, and two days later I was back at work. Yeah, I had some PT and yeah, in the beginning it was painful. But my right knee is cool now and about as good as a 63 year old joint gets.

Now it's the turn of my left knee. So if the MRI shows that cuttin' is the best thing to do and a doc or two agree, they gonna cut me. I'll do all that shit that I did before, including the Vicodin, man.

The worst that can happen is that the docs agree that I need a knee replacement and I don't think that's gonna happen.

Well, I mean, I could die on the table, only it ain't all that likely. Anyway, you know what it says in Mark 13:33 and places like that. So if it's gotta be done, git 'er done. Matthew 14:27.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 05:57 PM

Well, Spawzer, you got me pegged...

Other than getting my tonsils out and 4 wisdom teeth pulled that's 'bout it... Okay, I did have to have a hole punched in my chest for a collapsed lung once... Other than a few broken bones which didn't need no cuttin' on that's the extent of it...

But I am resigned to do it if the 2nd doc says the same thing as the first one... I mean, yeah, let 'er rip...

If it were a knee it would be a lot easier but knowing that they gonna go in from the front of my neck is a tad scarier... There's lotta stuff in the front of yer neck... Like what if the guy is about to make the initial cut and sneezes??? You jknow, that kinda stuff...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 06:55 PM

You'll never know it if he does.

Bobert, my wife has scars down both sides of her neck. They laid her neck wide open with a radical dissection when she was 17 -- took out her thyroid and parathyroids because of cancer. That's what they did back then.

Nobody sneezed, but she's pretty scarred up. So...

What I'm sayin' is, they do this, go in from the front, and you got a built-in story, man! You can tell 'em how you wuz leavin' a gig when you wuz jumped by these here drug-crazy bikers who wanted to steal your guitar and how you fought 'em off with only a guitar pick and your good looks for weapons and rescued Sister Holy Mary Of The Angels, a kindly old nun who wuz deliverin' food to poor folks and....

Man, this could be the Stuff Of Legend!

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:00 PM

Well, gol danged, Rap...

You is a genious!!! I think I'll have the operation even if the doctors say I don't need it...

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:06 PM

Ah shucks, I'm jist a humble modest feller from the Great American Middle West who happens to be livin' in the Rocky Mountains....

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:37 PM

Well damn.....Ol' Rap is givin' it to you pretty hard as well Bobertz.....Even quotin' some dubious scripture and all.

But I tell ya' Rap, if ya' need to get that left knee done, just keep lookin' in your Bible for guidance 'cause it tells ya' right there in Acts 9:4 to git 'er done when it says, "It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." No shit! Gotta' have good knees to be both a prick kicker and a shitkicker!

See Ol' Spaw not only got hissef a major in Philosophy but also a minor in Religion...........Talk about ways to piss away four years of your life........and I have soooo much to show for it too.............................geeziz............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 07:50 PM

Well, ol' Rap pissed away six years (minus a little over a year fer Uncle Sam) and got HISSELF a degree in English Literature and minors in Philosophy, Theology, and Drama.

Philosophy means lots of Existentialism, which is pretty damned depressing. Even Camus is depressing. I mean, "The point is to live." Come on, ya gotta do better than just live. Maybe he meant "The point is to live it up." Ol' Jean-Paul Sartre makin' tons of money, all of it pointless, but he kept on makin' it. Like a virtuoso banjo player: rakin' in the dough for doin' what? It taught me not be an Existentialist. Not even one like Heidigger or Buber, if they were. But it did make for great talk at parties over beer and stuff. Impressed the girls, too. "Ah, who knows what tomorrow shall bring? We could all be dead or even worse, graduated and have to go to work. Let's go in the bedroom and...."

At least Drama was pretty straightforward.

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:09 PM

Well, gol danged...

Looks as if this has become a pissin'-away contest so seein' as that is the situation I done pissed away 4 year getting a BS in History/Poli-Sci and another 3 getting a BA in Fine Arts...

Accordin' to the Wes Ginny Slide Rule that's, ahhhhh, a lotta pissed away years... Maybe 6 or 8, 'er so...

(7 to be exact, Boberdz...)

Yeah, okay, make it 7... That puts me in 1st place on the pissed-awayers...

But, never mind that high math and pissed away years... I'm starting to like the timgly feelings in the fingers... Feels like about 30 volts 24/7... No, the pain ain't growin' on me so I reckon I still gonna have to get it off me but I like the 'lectricty... I think I'll ask the doc if he could only do half an operation fir the pain and leave the 'lectricity...

Maybe he'd only charge half price???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:22 PM

See, I bought into the whole existentialist bag myself andtried to mold what I read in Barth into something that coexisted seamlessly with Heidegger and Kierkegaard. But then I found myself asshole deep and wallowing about in "Either/Or"..........I mean I figured that anyone who wrote like that had to be a friggin' genius with his finger on the pulse of all life-force. After awhile I would find myself deep in thought, staring at my roommate's ant farm, and wishing I wasn't out of dope.

Then one day after failing to find the mix of Existential Philosophy and Theology as described by Paul Tillich I took my copy of "How to Talk Dirty and Influence People" to the can and took a healthy shit. Suddenly the essence (and of course Existentialism is all about essence) of all Existentialism was revealed by this great 20th Century Stand Up Philosopher!!! Fuck Kierkegaard..... I had Lenny Bruce. My essence finally preceded my existence. There it was in one simple line of English and I actually could understand it immediately without either dictionary or thesaurus.

"There is only what is; What should be never existed."

I ripped off a final fart and went out to meet the world in all of its absurdity. The only problem after that was what to do with the worthless ass degree so I opted to twist wrenches and go racing and have one helluva' good time. This is owed anyone who has read "Either/Or."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 08:51 PM

Same here, Spawz...

'Cept in my case it was Laurance Ferlinghetti's "Five Unfair Arguments Againt Existence" that got me twisting wrenches and drivin' my race car...

The wrenches??? Ahhhh, still have 'um all up in my tool room... The race car??? Maybe it never existed inspite of the photograhical evidence to the contrary???

Ferlingetti??? Yeah, I'm purdy sure he existed but if I can't prove that I do then I'm gonna have a hard time provin' that he did...

Ouch... Gotta go lie (lay) down now...

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:28 PM

You get a really quick lesson in existence in the Infantry. It's and "either/or" thing -- either he's dead or you are. So when I came back to college after learning that shit I just wanted to finish and get on with life. Did that; went to -- Northern Illinois University! -- for a couple semesters of grad school, ran out of money, followed this chick to Ohio, married her (and am still married to her), took some courses at Kent State, finished grad school at Case Western Reserve, took about half another masters in writing at the U. of Akron, moved to Indiana (wife was now a lawyer and working at Notre Dame), moved to Northern Kentucky (or Cincinnati South), moved out here.

Yeah, I know Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, even Virginia and West Virginia. And DC and Maryland, too.

I just noticed: Kent State, NIU -- am I following massacres or something? Massacre Rocks State Park is just about 20 miles away (there weren't any massacre there, just the Shoshones ambushed some wagons and around 1930 somebody started calling it a massacre). Maybe it's me, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:39 PM

Yeah, I was kinda' noticing a certain theme running along there Rap........Didn't happen to be on the Grassy Knoll didja'?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Bobert Seriously Messed Up....
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Mar 08 - 09:45 PM

200