BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 28 Oct 22 - 08:47 PM

vincent, i wouldn't want to excuse tony blair for anything - mostly because with his huge majorities he could really have made a difference to the way this country operates. His great achievement was in funding and running public services well but even then the ppi initiative has been a long-term headache for the nhs. iraq war a terrible decision and degrading for our country. there is little that uk governments wouldn't do to lick american arse. had we stuck with the germans and the french, and theUN approach it would possibly have done a great deal to improve our standing in europe and the rest of the progressive world. Anyway, the tories would never support peace or reason and of course the liberals would never stand on a principle. any attacks from then on Blair are complete hypocrisy

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Oct 22 - 04:34 AM

The LibDems are a bunch of unprincipled, Tory-lite opportunists. The one good thing about the 2015 election was seeing them get their arses kicked by the voters.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Oct 22 - 11:47 AM

I see that Sunak received just shy of a cool half-million from donors to support his election campaign. Oh, and the use of a private jet. He's probably too embarrassed to go to the climate summit in case someone asks him about that jet.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Oct 22 - 03:51 PM

Steve: This is what "you see". Would you care to give reliable quotes for these claims?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Oct 22 - 04:01 PM

Jeremy Corbin -

Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.
Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.
Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.
Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.
Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.
Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.
Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.
Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.
Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.
Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.
Signed EDM after IRA Poppy massacre massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.
Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.
Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
Heavily involved with IRA sympathising newspaper London Labour Briefing.
Put up £20,000 bail money for IRA terror suspect Roisin McAliskey.
Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.
Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich massacre terrorist.
Attended conference with Hamas and PFLP.
Photographed smiling with Hezbollah flag.
Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.
Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.
Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.
Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.
Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader.
Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
Opposed shoot to kill.
Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.
Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
Called drone strikes against terrorists “obscene”.
Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.
Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
Received endorsement from Hamas.
Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.
Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.
Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
Opposed proscription of Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.
Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.
Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible.
Failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.
Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
Signed EDM spinning for Slobodan Milosevic.
Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
Voted against banning support for the IRA.
Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.
Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.
Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
Voted against banning al-Qaeda.
Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
Voted against control orders.
Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.
Quite something when you put it all down in one place…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Oct 22 - 05:01 PM

Bollocks, Bonzo. You read the Daily Mail far too much.

Just read the Guardian, Nigel. I know it might hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Oct 22 - 06:01 PM

All completely irrelevant, Bonzo. It may have escaped your attention, but Corbyn hasn’t been the Leader of the Labour Party since April 2020, and had the Labour Whip withdrawn in the same year.

You really do need to try much, much harder.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Oct 22 - 06:58 PM

So Boris is contemplating undermining Sunak by going to Cop27. Heheh.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 07:26 AM

"You really do need to try much, much harder."

I don't need to try at all, I'm alright jack if it's all the same to you!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 07:58 AM

Aaaahh, “I’m alright Jack”. Exactly what one would expect from a Tory. Back under your rock, reptile.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 08:43 AM

I'm very alright, because I still work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 09:10 AM

Doesn't say much for your financial management Bonzo if you still have to work when your in your 70's even when the government are giving "hand-outs" as you would call them into your household.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 09:49 AM

I’m alright - very alright - and I haven’t worked since 2012, I haven’t needed to. Still paying a lot of tax on my pensions though. No ‘handouts’ in our house, just the pensions I’m entitled to as a result of working and paying taxes for fifty years, the pension I saved for, and Mrs. Backwoodsperson’s not-inconsiderable salary.

Hey-ho, it’s a grand life!

Oh shit, I’m starting to sound a bit Toryfied…

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 10:54 AM

I work to pay for Mrs Bonzo's private medical insurance, if it's all the same to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 01:40 PM

I was recently accused of being a remoaner on Faceache. I am quite proud if that sobriquet but this was my response

The British public did vote for brexit even though it was as plain as the nose on your face that it would be harmful to the economy. That the referendum was won fair and square is not in question and I will always agree it was the wish of the majority that bothered to vote. Trouble is that no-one will now admit that they were conned by liars and Charlatans as they would rather blame someone else. Which is why we now have the political chaos we are seeing. No one will admit that they were wrong so it becomes impossible to put right. The fact that I could always see it was wrong leaves me open to accusations of "remoaning" and that I want to, somehow, subvert the outcome of a fair vote. Well, it was also a fair vote in 2019 but I will do all I can to change the fairly elected government as soon as possible. The only difference between that and 2016 seems to be that we are lumbered with the decision to leave the EU forever and to question that makes me an insurgent and traitor :-( Long rant over. Thanks for reading :-)

I doubt that it will shut the accuser up but I think it sums up my views :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 06:12 PM

Well said Dave. Right on the button.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 07:26 PM

The British public did vote for brexit even though it was as plain as the nose on your face that it would be harmful to the economy.

"As plain as the nose on your face".
Pre the vote we were told that the pound would 'tank' that there would be an immediate 'black hole' in the economy of £60k, that unemployment would go through the roof.
None of these happened.
'Project fear" totally failed.

I, for one, don't believe that my voting for Brexit has been proved to be a failure. And I'm happy to say so.
Brexit was a necessary readjustment of our relationship with 'Europe'.

Whatever our current problems (exchange rate with the Dollar, inflation rate, unemployment rate) Europe (the EU bloc) have similar problems!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Oct 22 - 07:46 PM

By far the most important development for the planet today was the defeat of Bolsonaro in Brazil. I've been biting my nails about that all day. But I might just afford myself a small extra tot of red (appropriate enough!) to raise a glass to Lula, dodgy geezer though he may be. Last time he was in power he did a lot of good, and he might just help to save the rainforest, unlike Bolsonaro...

Back to the Britfest. Shall we chat about Braverman or shall we get a good night's kip instead?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 03:40 AM

I would rather believe the economists, Nigel. You carry on believing that leaving the EU has done no economic harm if you like but the truth is, it has.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 04:53 AM

”I, for one, don't believe that my voting for Brexit has been proved to be a failure. And I'm happy to say so.
Brexit was a necessary readjustment of our relationship with 'Europe'.”

I’ll bet you believe all that S-F stuff too.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 06:10 AM

... and, of course, Brexit has been a rip-roaring success in Northern Ireland.

Fintan O'Toole - Northern Ireland faces another pointless election

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 06:14 AM

I’ve yet to speak to a BrexShit supporter who can give even one example of a tangible benefit felt by the general population of the UK which has been a direct result of leaving the EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 06:47 AM

"Pre the vote we were told that the pound would 'tank"

AS is often the case with the right wing you are trying to rewrite history Nigel. The pound went from 1.32 euro to 1.20 euro overnight.

In a financial market were a rise of one quarter or one half of a cent is claimed to be soaring or plummeting I would suggest a fall of 12 cents can be said to have tanked.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: weerover
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 07:07 AM

Scotland voted narrowly in 2014 to remain part of the UK. One of the main "selling points" of the "Better Together" campaign was that it was the only way to stay in the EU. Scotland then voted almost 2 to 1 to remain in the EU but was taken out against the will of the Scottish electorate. What is likely to happen next, I wonder?

wr

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 07:30 AM

Indeed, wr. I also suspect that the north of Ireland will leave the UK although I am not sure what will happen to Wales. This April sees the removal of a layer of local government in North Yorkshire too as the seven current districts all become one. Part of the reason? Devolution! Maybe you will let us, Cumbria, Durham and Northumberland join Scotland? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 08:25 AM

”Maybe you will let us, Cumbria, Durham and Northumberland join Scotland? :-D “

…and don’t forget the Backwoods of Lincolnshire… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 12:18 PM

Let's do the job properly: the entirety of the Untied Kingdom should declare UDI from Planet Westminster, wait for the implosion, and build a decent government on the rubble.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 12:35 PM

"His great achievement was in funding and running public services" Pete, you're clearly someone not looking to argue to win points since you mentioned the PPI, something, in my view, about as damaging to the NHS as at least two Tory governments, not to mention the removal of the Community Health Councils, so I shall take a serious look again at Blair's admin. All I can say about that, though, is the effect it had on the lives of people that I knew who were working in public services, including my missus, was not to the good.

But it still pales in comparison with what Blair's policies did to the Middle East.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 01:00 PM

”But it still pales in comparison with what Blair's policies did to the Middle East.”

…Blair’s policies, supported by the Parliamentary Conservative Party, and despite a large-scale rebellion by Labour MPs, did to the Middle East, IIRC.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 01:31 PM

Blair’s policies, supported by the Parliamentary Conservative Party, and despite a large-scale rebellion by Labour MPs, did to the Middle East, IIRC.

Blair only got support from the Conservatives because he lied to Parliament.
He stated that he had seen conclusive proof that there were WMDs capable of rapid deployment against the UK. Proof which, he was unable to share with Parliament!

Compared to which, Boris' confusion over exactly what constituted a party, and what was a workplace event seems negligible.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 01:47 PM

I'm seeing a pattern here, Nigel

Brexit is damaging the economy
- It's not as bad as some people predicted

Bozzer lied to everyone
- He's not as bad as Blair

It's almost as if you have never heard that 2 wrongs don't make a right!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 03:20 PM

I can agree with you about the baleful effects of Blair as you describe them, Vincent, but the Tory administrations since 2010 have underfunded the NHS year on year, and it is now in a parlous state. I speak as an unwilling frequent "customer" of the service over that whole period. In terms of getting to see my doctor, getting referred for hospital treatment, getting that treatment (or not), waits in A&E, etc., there is no comparison between the early 2010s and now. Tell me again at the end of this winter whether you still think Blair did as much harm as two Tory administrations...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 07:02 PM

Nigel, as you know you have a reputation on this site of being a bit (lot) of being a pedant.

I responded to your earlier submission that there was a suggest by reminers that "the pound would 'tank'" after the vote to leave Europe had occured and according to you had not done so.

I suggested that in actual fact the pound had indeed "tanked" immediately after Brexit.

I also notice that you have failed to respond to my reply.

So, please tell me, if the pound had dropped from about 1.32 Euro to the pound to 1.20 Euro to the pound, given in mind that a change of 1/2 a cent or 1 cent is considered plummeting or soaring, what is a drop of 12 cents overnight.

I might also add that as of today I can get a mere 1.15 Euro to the pound, a consierable drop from the 1.32 Euro I could have received pre Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 31 Oct 22 - 07:07 PM

My apologies for the appalling spelling in my last post I hit submit by accident.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Nov 22 - 05:34 AM

Looking forward to receiving Winter Fuel Allowance + Pensioners Cost of Living allowance - tax free of course!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Nov 22 - 05:57 AM

Yep, money in the bank not targeted. Enjoy it as you sidle past the food bank.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Vincent Jones
Date: 01 Nov 22 - 06:05 AM

I would if I could, Steve, but I think the PPI has facilitated much of today's NHS problems: many of the contracts run for 25 years, and the opportunity costs of the billions spent on "experts" and restructuring, the increased rental charges of buildings given to or built in the public sector, the cronies putting cash from our taxes into their arse pockets at the expense of the working conditions, particularly of lower paid NHS workers, these things don't end when the government changes - but may well whet the appetites of Tory vultures for more of the same. I won't be able to answer how much of the disgraceful state of the NHS is due to whom, and I trust the Tories even less, but I think that a lot of the groundwork was courtesy of New Labour. Several friends who voted for Blair felt shafted and left the NHS, mostly nurses and one with 15 years of midwifery experience.

I agree with your view of the state of the NHS, but my father's utterly contemptible treatment in his last years - a veteran of Monte Cassino with parts of his lung left at Tossignano - was in the middle of a New Labour restructuring. So perhaps I'm biased - and I sincerely hope that you are not currently experiencing the level of care my dad received.

I'd like to think that today's Labour party would improve the NHS, but then I'd love to open the bowling for Lancashire County Cricket Club, something that I think is far more likely to happen.

And I thought I could read opinions without engaging in the polemics, but it seems I can't. Bugger. Hey, Arsenal are doing well this season, aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Nov 22 - 06:11 AM

PPI or PFI ?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Nov 22 - 06:57 AM

Raggytash.
As was pointed out many times prior to, and after, the vote, the pound was already on a downward trend to adjust for previous overpricing. The pound had already fallen from a high in 2015 of around 1.43 (up gradually from 2012/13 when it was around 1.16)

To attribute this solely to Brexit is a false premise. It was however a good excuse to finish the expected realignment swiftly.

You comment on my not responding.
By concentration on the exchange rate you are not responding to the expected a) massive black hole in the economy b) massive unemployment which were also forecast as being immediate responses to a leave vote. Do you agree that these did not occur? In which case 'project fear' was false.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 01:27 PM

Balderdash Nigel, and you know it. In a market where a change of half a cent or one cent is considered plummetting or soaring (as described by the media) a fall of 12 cents overnight is an absolute catastrophe. The pound has never recovered from that fall and does not seem likely to any time soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 05:13 PM

"Enjoy it as you sidle past the food bank"

No need to know they exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 22 - 06:11 PM

Well I can't disagree about the baleful effects of PFI, Vincent. The cost to the NHS down the years has been enormous. As with the schools academy system, New Labour forgot to be careful what it wished for. However, the point holds that the NHS has been neglected and appallingly funded under 12 years of Tory rule. Most users of the NHS are going to be influenced in their judgement by the upfront consequences they see: terrible waiting times in A&E, inability to get a GP appointment in anything like a timely way, years instead of a few weeks on waiting lists. And just pray that you'll never need an ambulance. It wasn't anything like that in 2010, as both my missus and I can abundantly attest (unfortunately).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 02:54 AM

Nigel. I, for one, never expected the complete catastrophe forecast by some and have said as much on many occasions. Nor did I expect the sunlit uplands that many of the brexiteers were singing about. I did think it would be bad but it is showing itself to be worse than I thought. Now I have agreed that the some of the predictions made by remainers were wrong, can you tell us how far towards the promised land of milk and honey we have progressed? Or are you willing to admit that it has not been as easy as some promised. Or that we have not had people banging on our door for deals, as promised? Or that our economy is now thriving, as promised.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 04:45 AM

Unfortunately, or fortunately for them perhaps, the Brexshiteers and Tory supporters have been gifted a few excuses which they have used, and are continuing to use, to excuse the Tory government's abysmal performance over the past twelve years - not least being Covid (which they claim as a victory, despite the couple of hundred thousand deaths and the billions they gave away to their friends, relatives, and local pub landlords for bogus PPE contracts etc.) and now the war in Ukraine (funny, innit - they are happy to use that as an excuse for rocketing inflation, high energy costs, rising interest rates, yadda, yadda, yet when the last Labour government had to deal with the effects of a world-wide financial crash, and had to fork out hundreds of billions to rescue the Tories' mates, the Bankers, whose profligacy and recklessness had caused the crash in the first place, the Tories claimed, and are still trying to profit from their lie, that 'The Labour Party crashed the economy').

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 06:03 AM

Now thriving = not thriving

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 06:45 AM

I find a lot of remain voters persist in phrasing things as "Brexit is the cause of" X, Y or Z, which simply leads to the response "You are ignoring Covid and Ukraine".   It would help, perhaps, if the remain voters could adopt something more along the lines of "Almost every country suffered from covid and from the effects of the Ukraine war. What can be pointed to that show the UK has managed better than other places because of Brexit freedoms?"

And, by the way, 'early vaccines' is not one. What matters on vaccinations is the total number of lives saved, not the date of the earliest injection nor the number delivered. Effectiveness is what counts, not process.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 08:12 AM

Agreed, Dave, but there are things that are a direct cause of brexit. Difficulty exporting products. Companies moving from to mainland Europe to avoid the red tape. Products missing from our shops because EU companies do not want the hastle of exporting to us. Queues of Lorries on the M20. The peace in Northern Ireland being threatened. UK Artists having to cancel European tours. Need I go on?

Yes, Covid and the war in Ukraine have had their effects but that is global. It affects everyone and, as John put above, the financial crisis between 2007 and 2009 was global but the Tories still blame it on the Labour party.

I think a better question to ask brexiteers is "What tangible benefits are there to us ordinary folk as a result of brexit?"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 10:46 AM

> I think a better question to ask brexiteers is "What tangible benefits
> are there to us ordinary folk as a result of brexit?"

They keep getting asked that. For what I hear every time in response, look up the definition of "duckspeak" in the Appendix of Nineteen Eighty-Four.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Nov 22 - 05:19 AM

Mark Carney confirming that brexit is a significant factor in the current crisis and that Raggy's comments about the pound crashing are correct.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63515486

Who should we believe I wonder? A former governor of the Bank of England or a Tory apologist from a folk music forum. Hmmmm. Tough one :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Nov 22 - 08:57 AM

We have absolutely no benefits whatsoever from brexit.

Now we have complete idiots sitting on motorways blocking people from going about their daily business. I hope the time is near when motorists begin shunting this scum out of the way.