Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.

Subject: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:18 PM

And they criticize us??

CBC report

sIx

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 06 - 07:19 PM

should be moved down to the BS.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:01 PM

Before it is, Harper is a (bad words go here--two adjectives and a compound noun). New era of cooperation my Royal Canadian.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Peace
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:03 PM

The (bad word deleted prior to posting, thus saving a clone the trouble) US State Department Report should be moved to BS.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: dianavan
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:05 PM

Anytime one country detains and tortures a citizen from another country, it is bound to cause a bit of friction!

By citing the case of Maher Arar, the U.S. is only trying to save face. There is absolutely no reason this man and his family should have endured punishment by the U.S.

As far as our immigration policy, I think the U.S. should look at their own immigration problems. At least our immigrants have documentation. What about the number of illegals in the U.S.?

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: number 6
Date: 01 May 06 - 08:27 PM

Certainly doesn't help with the perception of what the world think of the U.S. these days.

Then again ... I don't think it's perception, it's frightening reality.

sIx

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:03 PM

What is frightening is the fact that the statements are true. Canada has done nothing to deport known criminals; and in fact has many illegal immigrants (that are known to police as criminals) still roaming our streets thanks to lax laws, and a slow criminal justice system. I am not a fan of your Mr Bush, at least he is trying to do something.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:05 PM

Dave,

The concern on the part of some might be that the US gets more oil from Canada than anywhere else. Since ALL action of the Bush administration ( according to some) have been driven by OIL, this means that Canada is next...

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: CarolC
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:12 PM

I am not a fan of your Mr Bush

LOL

All of the posts in this thread before yours are from Canadians, Dave. (Although one of the posters does have dual citizenship.)

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: dianavan
Date: 01 May 06 - 11:56 PM

Dave - I'd like to know the sources for your statements.

I would also like to point out the following quote from the article, "It lists several suspected militants in Canada, but fails to mention all of them are either in prison on security certificates or under close police supervision."

I think that after the Arar case, Canada is very reluctant to hand over any suspects that may be imprisoned and tortured without trial. Don't forget that Arar is a Canadian citizen and don't forget that he is innocent.

As far as criminals "roaming the streets" of Canada, I think you will find that most of those criminals are not immigrants.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:17 AM

The great majority of criminals in Canada, as in the U. S., are native-born, but Asian gangs are a spot of bother for the police here in Calgary, what with their habit of shooting at competitors.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:27 AM

There are a lot who manipulate our system and live here for years without being deported despite being wanted for major crimes including violence both here and in other countries. Q's "spot of bother" trivializes a serious problem in Canada. (and its growing worse)

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: number 6
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:30 AM

Certainly not worse than the immigration woes that are palaguing the U.S. right now. We also do not apprehend citizens of other countries, send them to a foreigh country to be interrogated and worse tortured.

sIx

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: dianavan
Date: 02 May 06 - 12:31 AM

Yes, but if they are caught breaking the law, they are subjected to the same rules as anyone else, whether they are citizens or not. In fact, depending on the crime, they may be deported. Besides that, who says these Asian gang members are illegal immigrants? In fact, they might be from families that have been here for several generations.

I don't like gang activity either but you don't have to be an immigrant to belong to a gang. In Vancouver, the first generation immigrants very rarely engage in criminal activity. It is most often second generation kids who feel disenfranchised who seek approval and acceptance from a gang. These kids are generally citizens and were not born criminals.

These are not the people that concern Bush. Bush is more concerned about people from the Middle East. He thinks they are all potential terrorists and want you to think so too.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 May 06 - 09:15 AM

I nearly hurt myself laughing the other day when I heard on the news that The US wants to release hundreds of Gitmo detainees as no legal case can be made against them, but is reluctant to do so, as it fears that they may be mistreated, perhaps even tortured when they are returned home!

I'm not making this up, you know! :-)

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 May 06 - 09:12 AM

The US would never do anything like what you rotten commie hippy pinko punks are saying it does! George Bush is a great man, probably even greater and more compassionate than Jesus, a true compassionate conservative. I'm certain that he would weep over a tiny bird with a broken wing just as he does over the tack some nations which will remain nameless are taking by harboring terrorist criminals who have weapons of mass destruction in their pockets and are just waiting to use them on Ottumwa and Moose Jaw and other American towns. Just think of all the tears that GW Bush is shedding over you people, real tears, because you don't understand that he's trying to bring Love and Peace under the stars 'n' stripes to everyone in the world. Well, I sure that the President of the United States is down on his knees every night and every day, praying that all of you who live in darkness will soon see the light and remember who to vote for this November.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Becca72
Date: 03 May 06 - 09:27 AM

Just try getting into Canada with a DUI on your record, though. Terrorists? Fine, come on in. Drunk driver? F- you buddy!

I have a friend who received a DUI conviction at the age of 18 (back when that was the legal drinking age here in the states) and then flew into Canada at the age of 40 and was detained and forced to pay a $500 fine because of the 22 year old DUI conviction.

But then again, if we secured our own borders and let Canada do their own thing at the same time, we should be the ones filtering out the criminals from coming here...right?

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 May 06 - 09:44 AM

yes, it does seem that most countries- the US being a notable exception- take drunk driving seriously, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Becca72
Date: 03 May 06 - 09:49 AM

Thanks for missing the point of that one...

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Cluin
Date: 03 May 06 - 12:21 PM

It's what makes Canada safe from terrorist attack. They send their relatives here for safety.






That was a joke, by the way.... and not even an original. I stole it from Glen Foster.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:41 PM

A lot more people get killed by drunk drivers than by terrorists.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: dianavan
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:55 PM

Good point, McGrath.

Yes, drunk driving is a serious crime in Canada.

We do not, however, send drunks to Syria to be tortured.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Becca72
Date: 03 May 06 - 01:57 PM

No, more people in the US and Canada may be killed by drunk drivers than by terrorists, but I'd wager car bombs and suicide bombers are a larger problem elsewhere...contrary to popular belief we are not the center of the universe...
I'm not condoning the behavior and would never do it myself, but IMHO it is a far greater problem with their immigration policies than there is with someone just visiting and paying again and again for something stupid that was done over 2 decades ago

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: dianavan
Date: 03 May 06 - 03:02 PM

Becca72 - You and others keep citing Canada's immigration policy as a "problem". Why is it a problem? I live here and do not see a problem with it. Admission to Canada is fairly stringent. You can't just walk in. Can you please state which part of the policy is a problem?

As far as I am concerned its just a red herring to deflect attention away from the immigration problems in the U.S. Seems to me that you have so many illegals, they are marching in the streets.

The 911 terrorists were not living in Canada. They were operating from the U.S.

As to allowing convicted drunks into Canada - Why? Where do you draw the line? How do we know if they are still drinking or not? As far as we are concerned, a drunk driver is in possession of a loaded weapon.

Does the U.S. allow those convicted of possession of pot into the U.S.? Not likely. How many pot smokers have killed anyone?

Get your priorities straight.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Becca72
Date: 03 May 06 - 03:18 PM

Dianavan,
First, read the article. Second, look back at my posts and site anywhere I said I thought our policy didn't have it's own problems.
Third, my friend simply flew in to Montreal and DID NOT DRIVE in Canada yet was fined anyway for one single (not a repeat offender!) incident 22 years earlier.
Go check on your plants and mind your own priorities.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: dianavan
Date: 03 May 06 - 03:46 PM

Becca - My brother faces the same problem. He tried to visit by ferry and when they found out at Canada customs that he had an old drunk driving conviction, they turned the boat around and took him back to the States. He was not fined.

Who fined your friend? If it was Canada, on what grounds did they fine him? Did he commit the crime in Canada? Did they send him to Syria to be tortured?

I did read the article and I ask again, "What part of Canada's immigration policy do you have a problem with?"

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Becca72
Date: 03 May 06 - 04:11 PM

I have the same problem with Canadian immigration policy as I have with US immigration policy...it is too lax. The 911 terrorists may have "done business" within the US, but they got here via Canada...and that says something terrible about both our countries.
As for my friend, he was fined by the Canadian government (I assume) while trying to pass through customs at the airport after landing (not really an option to turn around...he was already there). The crime was committed in New Jersey in the late 1970's. And if his nationality had been Syrian I'm sure they would have sent him here for us to deal with, anyway.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: number 6
Date: 03 May 06 - 04:26 PM

"but they got here via Canada" ... ?????????

sIx

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: dianavan
Date: 03 May 06 - 04:29 PM

Becca - Why would the Canadian government fine him for a crime that was committed in New Jersey?

The 911 terrorists did not get to the U.S. via Canada. Please state the source of that information.

Your last sentence makes no sense to me.

Maher Arar was a Canadian. Why did they send him to Syria and not to Canada?

They sent him to Syria to be tortured for no good reason!

The U.S. State Department needs to deal with their own problems and stop blaming Canada.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 06 - 04:32 PM

Drunk driving...drug use...financial chicanery...involvement in kidnapping... association with known terrorists...would those kind of things be a problem if George Bush were to wish to pay a visit to Canada?

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 May 06 - 04:33 PM

Hilarious! US illegal immigrants are holding rallies and parades demanding rights. Whose policy is too liberal?

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: hesperis
Date: 04 May 06 - 12:05 PM

There are a lot of illegal immigrants in Canada as well, and quite a large underground economy. US policies are worse in a lot of respects, however finger-pointing at either country as being "worse" isn't going to solve the problems at home.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:32 PM

Back in about 1978 I lost my driving licence for a months alcohol related (minimum legal levels and sentence) - I am not going to waste my hard saved money trying to go to the USA with the vagaries of possibly being sent back! If they can kick Molly Meldrum out when he was on his way to host the Logies, the country is as insane as 1930's Germany!

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:06 PM

'RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.'

"On January 29, 1980, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Canadian government conducted a successful undercover operation to evacuate six of the American hostages who had found refuge with Canadian diplomats in Tehran during the early months of the protracted hostage crisis and the revolution that had engulfed Iran. They returned to the United States during an otherwise tense diplomatic standoff between Washington and Tehran, while Canada earned the gratitude of a nation still transfixed on the uncertain fate of the more than 50 Americans who remained captive at the hands of the hostage-takers."

Well, fu#k 'em. Let's call it even.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: number 6
Date: 04 May 06 - 10:17 PM

Thanks for posting that Peace.

sIx

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 May 06 - 11:50 AM

Talk about calling the calling the kettle black. If we hadn't started this move against a terror that barely existed no one would be needing to watch their borders for terroists as we need to now. We were better off watching out for our own brand of home grown terror, now that we've deceided to import it instead. We are lucky to a neighbor like Canada to our north but I think they are as unlucky to have us to their south, it's shameful. At this point in time I can only believe that there'ss no country that would want us as their next door neighbor much less invite us over for a social get to gether. I pity the Canadains that have to put up with our shit.
Barry

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 07:46 PM

Barry,

Respectfully, I disagree. I think we are fortunate to have you as our neighbour. Although I detest many of the policies of your government, I also detest many of the policies of my own. (Our sales of asbestos; our growing mistreatment of poor people; the rising 'tide' of Neocon economics, to name a few). That aside, I have (or at least had) a great number of American friends, and friends don't come no better than that. FYI.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:24 PM

BTW, a short while ago, two chinese illegals were being deported from Australia. They were in a non-smoking section of the airport, so asked if they could go outside to have a smoke.

They haven't been seen since.

I'm not making this up you know...

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:43 PM

But what's the point you are making?

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 May 06 - 08:16 AM

Don't let illegals being deported out of your sight at the airport? :-)

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 06 - 10:31 PM

"Don't let illegals being deported out of your sight at the airport?"

That is a FPPE sentence.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:00 PM

To us brits, Canadians are really wannabe Americans

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 07:08 PM

Yeah. But we Canadians know that when Brits are awakened at 3:00 AM they talk just like Canucks.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 09:11 PM

Hmmmmmm. Those parades? A great many of the people in them were not illegal immigrants. There are people who parade on principle, you know.

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: number 6
Date: 05 Jun 06 - 09:23 PM

I hear all this 'fear' talk on U.S. news about how dangerous bad guys are going to trek across the desert or swim (yes swim, I heard this one tonite on CNN) across the Niagara river into the U.S. ... let's get real here, these bad guys are not going to go through all this ... they are well financed, well organized, they can obtain false documents for whatever the cost and then just pass throught the usual border, immigration procedures without a problem.

What goes through some minds ... yeah, trek adross a desert for 2 days, swim across the fast flowing Nigara river with a WMD strapped on their back !! Jeeeesh.

sIx

Subject: RE: Canada critized by U.S. State Dept.
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Jun 06 - 02:52 AM

Once again, the U.S. is talking about the "lax immigration and refugee" policies in Canada because of the recent bust but...

they were Canadians and permanent residents! Tighter borders will not solve the problem of 'home-grown terrorists'.

The other thing I don't understand is that when Canada actually thwarts the attempts at terrorist activity, they are criticized. Is it because the U.S. authorities weren't able to stop the 911 terrorists who were from within their own country and trained in their country?

When the U.S. points the finger at Canada, you can be sure it is only an attempt to deflect blame.

Seems to me that Canada is doing a pretty good job of protecting its population. What really troubles me is that 2010 Winter Olympics will be held in Vancouver. As a homeowner, I can't help but fear that I will be paying more than my share for the security of the world's athletes.