Subject: John O' Dreams From: Ron Date: 25 Sep 97 - 12:54 AM The words to John o' Dreams were set to Tchaikovsky's music. Anyone know which Tchaikovsky piece. Also, to who or to what does John o' Dreams refer? The only other reference I can find is in Shakespeare where he refers to John a' Dreams. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Sep 97 - 01:07 AM Hi, Ron, it's adapted from Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 6, Pathetique. -Joe Offer- Here are the lyrics we have in the Digital Tradition. Any corrections? JOHN OF DREAMS (from DT) (Bill Caddick) C F C / C F C / C G Am / C F C / C F C When midnight comes, good people homeward tread; Seek now your blankets and your feather bed. Home is the rover, his journey's over. Yield up the nighttime to old John of Dreams, Yield up the nighttime to old John of Dreams. Across the hills the sun has gone astray; Tomorrow's cares are many dreams away Home is the rover, her journey's over. Yield up the darkness to old John of Dreams, Yield up the darkness to old John of Dreams. Both man and master in the night are one; All things are equal when the day is done. The Prince and the plowman, the slave and the freeman. All find their comfort in old John of Dreams, All find their comfort in old John of Dreams. Now as you sleep the dreams come winging clear; The hawks of morning cannot harm you here. Sleep is a river, flows on forever, And for your boatman choose old John of Dreams, And for your boatman choose old John of Dreams. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Words copyright by Bill Caddick, Music by Tchaikovsky (tune borrowed from a southern Italian lullabye entitled Piva Piva). Recorded on Fashioned in the Clay, FSI-104, Gordon Bok, Ann Mayo Muir, and Ed Trickett. Also recorded by Mick Maloney on the Green Linnet label, SIF-1010. filename[ DREAMJON TUNE FILE: DREAMJON CLICK TO PLAY DC Here's one Italian song entitled "Piva Piva." Does it sound like the theme from Pathetique at all? Not to me. You decide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aSUFDGG-Sc |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Wolfgang (Hell) Date: 25 Sep 97 - 07:26 AM It is the main theme of the second part of that symphony. And Tchaikovsky took it from an Italian folksong (source of that information: Mick Moloney). Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Ron Date: 25 Sep 97 - 10:25 AM Thanks for the info re: Pathetique. Still, as to the lyrics - who was, who is, or what was John o' Dreams? |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Jon W. Date: 25 Sep 97 - 11:06 AM From the context of the song, my guess would be a mythical figure not unlike The Sandman. I.E. dreams personified. The song seems to be simply a wish for the listener to have pleasant dreams. Your Shakespearean reference might shed a little more light. Who was the character John A'Dreams? What play? I like the song a lot, seems like a great one to end a concert with. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Wolfgang (Hell) Date: 26 Sep 97 - 04:22 AM To improve upon what I wrote yesterday from memory, here is what Mick Moloney writes on the cover of a vinyl from '78: "This is another I learned from Sean Cannon. The words were written by Bill Caddick from Wolverhampton. The tune he took from Peter Tchaikovsky's...Pathetique. However, Sean Cannonwas informed by Toni Savage, who studied opera and belcanto in Italy, that the tune was borrowed by the Russion composer from a Southern Italian lullaby entitled Piva Piva [any help, Ezio, or other Italians?]. So, in a remarkable way, the tune has come full circle." After typing this I found that the gist of this information can actually be found in the notes to this song in the database. I'm impressed. Nevertheless I'll submit it, since maybe not everybody looks it up there. Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Bill in Alabama Date: 26 Sep 97 - 11:12 AM John-a-dreams is mentioned in HAMLET, Act 2, scene 2, line 568. The only gloss I can find for the reference is that, in Shakespeare's day it was used to refer to a "sleepy, dreaming idler." I'll check more sources later. |
Subject: Tune Req: John O Dreams-Bill Caddick From: Leadfingers Date: 15 Oct 02 - 06:42 PM I've just had an argument about the tune Bill used for John O Dreams. I think we agreed it was Peter Ilyitch,but which piece??? Help Please without going through all of Tchaikovski's work. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Joe Offer Date: 15 Oct 02 - 06:58 PM Hi, Leadfingers. I moved you over to this thread, which has the answer to your question (Tchaikovsky, Symphony No. 6, Pathetique; lyrics copyright Bill Caddick, 1967). Hope you don't mind. I'll also cross-link to related threads. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Herga Kitty Date: 15 Oct 02 - 07:15 PM Bill Caddick now sings the parody of his own song that was written by Les Barker, about eating biscuits in bed (Custard Creams). |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Joe Offer Date: 15 Oct 02 - 07:24 PM Sounds fun - can anybody post lyrics to "Custard Creams"? -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Leadfingers Date: 15 Oct 02 - 07:30 PM Gawd I knew the 'Cat'was fast,but I didnt expect to get so much so fast.Thanks,Joe,and all the other Catters . Especially as I lost the argument.I always thought it was from Sleeping Beauty. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: John Routledge Date: 19 Oct 02 - 08:43 PM I have just heard the author of John o' Dreams singing it at Manchester Extravaganza. Bill admitted he didn't know where the Shakespeare reference was. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Harry Basnett Date: 20 Oct 02 - 06:45 AM Bill performed this song plus many others off his new CD, 'Unicorns' at the Open Door Extravaganza 3 yesterday...sgame a few more people wern't there to enjoy it! Jane and Amanda Threlfall, Roam and Martin Carthy are on today (see Manchester Extravaganza 3 thread ) - - get along if you can - - treat yourselves! |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Leadfingers Date: 20 Oct 02 - 06:52 AM I Knowsomeone who has ALL of Les Barkers Books. Iwill try to get Custard Creams for the Cat |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Leadfingers Date: 20 Oct 02 - 08:00 AM And its nice to know Bill is still out there.I've not seem him for too long. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Watson Date: 20 Oct 02 - 01:58 PM That Len Basker wot rote Custard Creams sends Bill other alternative versions from time to time. Next time you see Mr Caddick, ask him to do Reg o' Dreams, the song about John's lesser known brother. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Leadfingers Date: 20 Oct 02 - 02:20 PM I have spoken to my contact and will be able to supply custard creams and the latest parody(I dont know if its Reg)in a few days,so hang fire there,catters.unless someone else comes up with it first |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams - favorite version From: mmb Date: 20 Oct 02 - 05:28 PM My all-time favorite version of this song is on Vol II, Track 5 of Bok, Muir & Trickett: The First 15 Years (Folk Legacy, 1992). Their harmonies and accompaniment are so delicate! When I first heard them perform it years ago, part of the intro was that John O-Dreams was a metaphor for Sleep, the Great Equalizer, needed by all persons, whatever their station in life. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: GUEST,Roy Date: 16 Jun 03 - 12:43 PM Just browsin' this thread,where did lyrics for Custard Creams and Reg o' Dreams go. |
Subject: DTADD: Custard Creams (Les Barker) From: Bernard Date: 16 Jun 03 - 08:06 PM CUSTARD CREAMS (Les Barker) Those midnight snacks bring what you always dread. Crumbs in your blanket and your feather bed. Crumbs without number Keep you from slumber; Yield up the night time to old custard creams. Yield up the night time to old custard creams. The late night sandwich and the ginger nut Stick in your shoulder, lie underfoot. Huntley and Palmer There is no armour Yield up the darkness to old custard creams Yield up the darkness to old custard creams. Barm cakes and biscuits, whole loaves of bread Mate on your mattress, breed in your bed One million croutons All on one futon And down your duvet there's old custard creams And down your duvet there's old custard creams. I think I know now why my mother said That gentlemen don't take tarts to bed And when you're restive Blame the digestive You'll find no comfort with old custard creams You'll find no comfort with old custard creams. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Bernard Date: 16 Jun 03 - 08:15 PM Before anyone asks, Huntley and Palmer was a British biscuit manufacturer... they were taken over by Nabisco in 1982, and ceased trading in 1989... How's that for thread creep?! |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Gorgeous Gary Date: 16 Jun 03 - 08:17 PM It's also an old Clam Chowder favorite; there's a nice version on their SALVAGED CD. -- Gary |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Gurney Date: 17 Jun 03 - 02:47 AM The tune to John-O-Dreams may have distant origins, but I heard a recording once of the exact tune, except for the last note of the repeated last line, and the credit was given to two lads from Glenn Miller's trumpet section. It was on the radio, I was driving, and I've never bothered to verify. This was just a few years after Bill wrote it. I suspect that at one stage Bill thought HE wrote the tune, because somewhere I have a song sheet saying "Words and music by Bill Caddick" Yo carn't trust Brummies nohow! |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Watson Date: 17 Jun 03 - 05:08 AM Gurney, Bill has never claimed that he wrote the tune. He has always acknowledged it was from Tchaikovsky. ...and how does someone born half-way between Wolverhampton and Dudley, now living in Shropshire become a Brummie? |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: vectis Date: 17 Jun 03 - 06:27 PM Tine please to les's ditty Mary |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: GUEST,Roy Date: 18 Jun 03 - 11:26 AM Ta for the biscuits. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: MMario Date: 18 Jun 03 - 11:30 AM vectis - Les's ditty uses the tune of "John o' Dreams' - see the midi via the DT link to J. o' Dreams at the top of the page |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Gurney Date: 19 Jun 03 - 05:44 AM Watson, I did say "suspect," and for a good reason. Bill himself sold me the song-sheet at a gig of his in Coventry. I don't know who printed it. About 1973. Good Grief. There isn't a Bow Bells for Brummigem. Halfway down the road from Coventry will do. Dont take it too seriously. There isn't a Brummigem either. Long ago, in a serious attempt to find the origin, I laboriously went through the Doomsday Book looking for it. No Birmingham, but there was a Brymwichham. Sounds near enough folk memory for me. Regards. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: GUEST,Pete Thomas Date: 27 Jun 03 - 07:50 AM Broadside would have been by John Crane who did a whole series ofBills songs in the early 70's including a booklet of King Sun and Queen Moon. I have also got a set of songs from Pete Coe in the same series. Pete Thomas |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Blackcatter Date: 04 May 05 - 01:24 AM Any one have more info on the John O' Dreams connection - who he was, etc? Blackcatter |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: akenaton Date: 04 May 05 - 02:12 AM I think "John o' dreams" would be based on the old scots lullaby "Dream Angus". Angus was a mythical gaelic figure who brought dreams to sleeping children. The dreams were always good and brought peace . "Dreams to sell, fine dreams to sell, Angus is here with dreams to sell. Hush little baby and sleep without fear, Angus has brought you a dream my dear" |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Boab Date: 04 May 05 - 03:55 AM Possible, Akenaton, but in my opinion not very likely. There is quite a number of similar songs in the theme. Mind you, you do mention another great song, "Dream Angus". |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: RobbieWilson Date: 04 May 05 - 07:51 AM Why don't you ask the horse himself? music@billcaddick.co.uk |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Blackcatter Date: 04 May 05 - 09:36 AM done. I'll let you know what I hear. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Den Date: 04 May 05 - 03:26 PM I think its just giving sleep a personality. When I was a kid in Ireland my mother used to refer to the night as old Johnny Dark. She would say, "its time for bed Old Johnny Dark's down." Scared the crap out of us to I must admit imagining this wierd old guy creeping around outside. |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Blackcatter Date: 09 May 05 - 12:06 PM Here's the response from Bill Caddick: Hello Tom, Thanks for the interest. It was a very long time ago but I seem to remember a black and white TV version of "Hamlet" (this may be fantasy but I think it was actually filmed in Denmark) starring Richard Chamberlain (he of "Dr. Kildare fame in those days) and John o' Dreams was mentioned. I'd already thought of Tchaikovsky's theme from his No. 6 Symphony as a great tune (!) and the two just went together. The melody is "flattened out" a bit but is always recognised as Pete's as far as PRS etc are concerned. Will that do? Cheers, Bill |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Blackcatter Date: 09 May 05 - 03:29 PM refresh |
Subject: RE: John O' Dreams From: Blackcatter Date: 10 May 05 - 09:18 AM refresh |
Subject: RE: Origins: John o' Dreams From: GUEST,Angela Brown Date: 16 Dec 13 - 06:32 AM I realise this thread is a few years old, but Scottish poet, William Sharp in 1906, tells a beautiful folk tale about A man referred to as John o' Dreams under his pseudonym Fiona Macleod in 'The Lynn of dreams'. I love the story so much that I was looking for more information on John o' Dreams as a folkloric figure. |
Subject: RE: Origins: John o' Dreams From: Mr Red Date: 16 Dec 13 - 07:19 AM Yo carn't trust Brummies nohow! Whom youm accusin of bein a Brummie? Owr Kid AFAIK Bill wus frum Wolverhampton ma mon. A million miles distant - culturally! Nar he's aliven in Telford, (He got a free downgrade ) and at the last count ran an acoustic session once a month in the Black Swan, Jackfield. see here |
Subject: DT Correction: John o' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Jul 17 - 01:52 AM Somebody sent me an email questioning the Digital Tradition lyrics to "John o' Dreams," and I figured I'd better check. I found two Bill Caddick performances, but he leaves out the last verse in the first one. Here's my transcription. Differences from the Digital Tradition are in italics. Any corrections? -Joe- JOHN O' DREAMS (Bill Caddick) When midnight sings, good people homeward tread; Seek now your blankets and your feather bed. Home is a rover, his journey's over. Yield up the nighttime to old John o' Dreams, Yield up the nighttime to old John o' Dreams. Across the hill the sun has gone astray; Tomorrow's cares are many dreams away. The stars are flying, your candle's dying, Yield up the darkness to old John o' Dreams, Yield up the darkness to old John o' Dreams. Both man and master in the night are one; All things are equal when the day is done. The Prince and the Ploughman, the slave and the freeman. All find their comfort with old John o' Dreams, All find their comfort with old John o' Dreams. Now as you sleep the dreams come winging clear; The hawks of morning cannot harm you here. Sleep is your river, float on forever, And for your boatman choose old John o' Dreams, And for your boatman choose old John o' Dreams. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Words copyright by Bill Caddick, Music by Tchaikovsky (tune borrowed from a southern Italian lullabye entitled Piva Piva). I listened to this Bill Caddick performance - he stops after the first line of the fourth verse, so I can't verify the fourth verse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlDMBojZbpE A kindly Mudcatter sent me a Bill Caddick studio recording of the song from an album titled Unicorns-Disk 1, so the above is my transcription from the two Bill Caddick recordings. Here are the Mudcatter's notes, comparing Caddick to the Redpath recording:
Bill re-recorded this for a CD 'Unicorns' in 2002. The version there is similar to the Jean Redpath version, but with several small differences. Some changes sound much better to me: 'The prince and _the_ ploughman...' Some worse: 'When midnight _sings_ ...' 'Home _is_ a rover.'.' '_Float_ on forever'..' Which is 'right' I've no idea. Anyway, have a listen. |
Subject: RE: Origins: John o' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Jul 17 - 02:12 AM Well, lacking a Bill Caddick recording, let me post a transcription of Jean Redpath's recording. I've always appreciated Jean's scholarship. JOHN O' DREAMS (Bill Caddick) When midnight comes and people homeward tread, Seek now your blanket and your feather bed; Home comes the rover, his journey's over. Yield up the nighttime to old John o' Dreams, Yield up the nighttime to old John o' Dreams. Across the hills the sun has gone astray, Tomorrow's cares are many dreams away; The stars are flying, your candle's dying, Yield up the darkness to old John o' Dreams, Yield up the darkness to old John o' Dreams. Both man and master in the night are one, All things are equal when the day is done; The Prince and Ploughman, the slave and freeman, All find their comfort in old John o' Dreams, All find their comfort in old John o' Dreams. And when sleep comes, the dreams are running clear; The hawks of morning cannot reach you here. Sleep is a river, flows on forever, And for your boatman choose old John o' Dreams, And for your boatman choose old John o' Dreams. Jean Redpath recording (from A Fine Song for Singing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MsQ_vlHsY |
Subject: RE: Origins: John O' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Jul 17 - 02:23 AM We Americans learned the song on the Folk-Legacy Fashioned in the Clay album by Gordon Bok, Ann Mayo Muir, and Ed Trickett. Here's their recording and my transcription of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFH_mhiUpwI JOHN O' DREAMS (Bill Caddick) When midnight comes, good people homeward tread, Seek now your blankets and your feather bed; Home is the rover, his journey's over. Yield up the darkness to old John o' Dreams, Yield up the darkness to old John o' Dreams. Across the hills the sun has gone astray, Tomorrow's cares are many dreams away; Home is the rover, her journey's over. Yield up the nighttime to old John o' Dreams, Yield up the nighttime to old John o' Dreams. Both man and master in the night are one, All things are equal when the day is done; The Prince and the Plowman, the slave and the freeman, All find their comfort in old John o' Dreams, All find their comfort in old John o' Dreams. Now as you sleep the dreams come winging clear; The hawks of morning cannot harm you here. Sleep is a river, flows on forever, And for your boatman choose old John o' Dreams, And for your boatman choose old John o' Dreams. Almost the same as what's in the Digital Tradition. I guess we must have gotten the DT lyrics from Bok-Muir-Trickett. Still, does anyone have the definitive Bill Caddick lyrics? While we're waiting for definitive Bill Caddick lyrics, here's a nice performance by Rachel Ries & Anaïs Mitchell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm3ofBThXP8 |
Subject: RE: Origins: John O' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: Peter the Squeezer Date: 13 Jul 17 - 02:41 AM Yet another version by Les Barker RON OF DREAMS When midnight comes good people homewards tread They don't see me they all see John instead I'm just the other's less famous brother Turn out your light I'm only Ron of Dreams Turn out your light I'm only Ron of Dreams Across the hills the sun has gone astray The world's ignored me just like Yesterday He's got charisma,He's John - I isna Here in the darkness You'll find Ron of Dreams Here in the darkness You'll find Ron of Dreams Both man and master in the night are one All things are equal except maybe Ron The prince and the ploughman,the slave and the free man All take no notice of old Ron of Dreams All take no notice of old Ron of Dreams My brother John is all they ever see That bastard Caddick never noticed me Him and Tchaikovsky,they wrote me offski They said,I quote:"Man who's old Ron of Dreams?" They said I quote:"Man who's old Ron of Dreams?" |
Subject: RE: Origins: John O' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Jul 17 - 07:19 AM The tune comes from the second subject group of the first movement of Tchaikovsky's Symphony no 6, the Pathetique. |
Subject: RE: Origins: John O' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Aug 17 - 03:52 AM Still looking for definitive Bill Caddick lyrics. |
Subject: RE: Origins: John O' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: Georgiansilver Date: 03 Aug 17 - 06:28 AM John o' Dreams Author: words-Bill Caddick; music Tchaikovsky When midnight comes and people homeward tread Seek now your blanket and your feather bed Home comes the rover, his journey's over Yield up the nighttime to old John o' Dreams Yield up the nighttime to old John o' Dreams Across the sky, the sun is gone astray Tomorrow's cares are many dreams away The stars are flying, your candle's dying Yield up the darkness to old John o' Dreams Yield up the darkness to old John o' Dreams Both man and master in the night are one All things are equal when the day is done The prince and the ploughman the slave and the freeman All find their comfort in old John o' Dreams All find their comfort in old John o' Dreams When sleep it comes the dreams are rushing clear The hawks of morning they cannot reach you here Sleep is a river, flow on forever And for your boatman choose old John o' Dreams And for your boatman choose old John o' Dreams |
Subject: RE: Origins: John O' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel Date: 03 Aug 17 - 07:14 AM I can't transcribe this at work, but the originator sings it himself here - anyone fancy transcribing it? |
Subject: RE: Origins: John O' Dreams (Bill Caddick) From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel Date: 03 Aug 17 - 04:22 PM I've now listened to Bill's version on YouTube. This must be the same as Joe referenced in his post at "13 Jul 17 - 01:52 AM", changing song at the start of the last verse :-( Joe's transcription there seems to match what I hear, and what I remember - including the last verse. I think I first heard it sung by Sean Cannon nearly 40 years ago. I suspect a lot of people have learnt the song second or third hand - probably from Christy Moore (I note that it's another song that seems to have been claimed by the Emerald Isle - can people not understand that Christy Moore singing something doesn't make it Irish? Let's hope one day he'll cover "Rule Brittania" or "The Star Spangled Banner" just for the fun of making people think they're Irish too). Most of the variations seem to me to have lost a lot of the original's poetry. |
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