BS: The British who fought for Hitler

Subject: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Ronald Healey
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:40 AM

Some people may not be aware of this, but the Nazi forces were joined by some unlikely reinforcements â€" a British SS unit.
        
The pro-Nazi soldiers were under the command of Harrow-educated John Amery, whose father served in Churchill’s war cabinet.Amery was an anti-Semite renowned for making speeches welcoming the German invaders in France. He then offered his services to Nazi propaganda minister Goebbels, and began working with notorious broadcaster Lord Haw Haw.

Another famous Englishman who fought for Hitler was John Brown. He later recorded the support for Hitler in England was much greater than the British care to recall.Thousands of Englishmen awaited the German invaders with a hearty welcome.

Then of course there was Oswald Mosley British Politician and Philosopher 1896-1980. He welcomed the advance of the German forces across Europe towards Britain.

Clearly a chapter of history the British care to forget !

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 05:58 AM

Not really.
I never heard of John Brown.
Amery was hanged for treason.
Lord Haw haw was actually an Irishman I think. He hanged at Neuremberg.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:27 AM

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Paddy
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 06:29 AM

Sorry, I hit the wrong button. Lord haw Haw was still technically British at the time of the war. Another traitor, Terry Wogan, was made a knight because he was also born before Ireland finaly ceceeded from Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Ronald Healey
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 07:13 AM

There was a lot for support for Hitler in Britain.
Besides the numerous British born agents. There were the likes of Quartermaster Sergeant John Henry Owen Brown of the Royal Artillery.

Brown had been a member of the British Union of Fascists (BUF) before the war, but was also a devout Christian. Captured on the beaches of Dunkirk in May 1940. A British NCO who became leader of Special Detachment 517.

Then there was Thomas Cooper, another British soldier joined the Waffen-SS. He was posted to the SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler (LAH), where he eventually was transferred to the infamous SS "Totenkopf" infantry training battalion, and became a machine-gun instructor with the 5th Totenkopf Regiment and was made an NCO. Following the German invasion of the Soviet Union, he was assigned to the Wachbattaillon Oranienburg outside Krakow in Poland, he boasted about what he did to Jewish prisoners! Other British soldiers that fought for Hitler with distinction were Richard Berry and Roy Courlander. They both stated there was huge support for Hitler in England. And lets not forget Bernie Patterson and Killer Jordan who pin pointed 47 factories making aircraft parts, all bombs within eight days.

Then there was Sir Anthony Blunt who many think was a German spy during World War Two.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 07:26 AM

No one thinks that Blunt spied for Germany.
So how many traitors does that make?

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Ronald Healey
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 07:47 AM

Blunt enlisted in the British army in 1939, and served as an officer in France until it was invaded by Germany. Back in Britain he moved to the Security Service MI5. He sometimes sat on the Joint Intelligence Committee, had access to reports from the Secret Intelligence Service as well as MI5, and was on the distribution list for Ultra sensitive material. This material was passed onto Lewis Litchfield a close friend of Blunt who worked for the Germans in France.

Blunt later admitted that he had passed the material to the KGB he refused to answer the question that he had worked for the Germans during world War Two. His refusal to answer held him in contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 07:47 AM

The British Free Corps SS had about 39 men in it for the 15 months it existed. Hardly a huge number of supporters was it?

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 07:53 AM

Blunt was motivated by Communism. He would hardly want to help the Nazis.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:28 AM

Sorry, I just checked and I was wrong. At no time was there more than 27 active members (aka less than a standard German infantry platoon) and only 59 were ever noted to have been associated with it throught the war; most were blackmailed or coerced into joining it, and one of those was mentally disturbed. (much to my disgust two them were Merchant Navy)

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:31 AM

"There was a lot of support for Hitler in Britain." I would like to hear your definition of "a lot", Ronald. In the history books I read, Britain was the one European nation, which held out against Hitler in 1940, when the rest of Europe had either been defeated or cowed into reticence. As thousands of defenceless Britons sailed pleasure craft in and out of Dunkirk to rescue the BEF, under bomb and bullet attack, I don't think we can look there for "a lot of support for Hitler".
Joseph Kennedy advised his government that Britain was finished and the Irish Republic declined to pick a quarrel with Herr Hitler.
Sir Oswald Mosley was indeed a Fascist and a brute. It is less clear whether he was a traitor. He often protested loudly that he would have fought the Germans himself had they landed in the UK.
Using the preposterous William Joyce as a stick with which to beat the British really has to be laughed off. His nationality was something of a grey area, as you will discover if you bother to read the link I have provided.
Yes, Britain had a few traitors in the Second World War. The other side of the coin is that Britons lost thousands of homes, limbs and lives to resist evil when some other countries did nothing. That is what I call "a lot".

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:38 AM

I should have added to Keith A's remark that Blunt was a Communist. Those who can be bothered to read their history a little less selectively have discovered that his "treason" was to pass secrets to the Russians, which was expressly intended to help them defeat Fascism. At the Battle of Kursk, which effectively finished the Wehrmacht in the Soviet Union, the Russians knew the German order of battle. That intelligence came from British spies. This probably was in defiance of their government, so technically it was treason. In any event, the attempt to hold up Blunt as a Hitler supporter is ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:39 AM

Blackmailed and mentally ill ! A decent British excuse.

Veteran intelligence expert Phil Lynch said: "Hundreds of British spies and agents inflicted untold damage on Britain. Many hundreds never faced justice.

"They have the blood of hundreds, if not thousands, on their hands."

Hard to believe that all of these agents were mentally ill too !

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:44 AM

So let's have the songs then!

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:51 AM

Thier coming to take me away haha, their coming to take me away hoho to make me a British agent as they are all nuts hoho.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:56 AM

Guest 0839am learn to read and research your facts.
Lieutenant William Shearer, who joined the BFC, and was their first, and only British officer to accept a position in the unit.   Shearer was a schizophrenic and wouldn't put on his BFC uniform or even leave his room, to which end he was removed and sent to the mental asylum from whence he came.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 09:00 AM

Google doesn't turn up any Phil Lynch "intelligence expert" in the first few pages. I suspect GUEST 08:39 has swallowed a novel by a paranoid conspiracy nutcase here.

The British were not story- book heroes in WWII, and there was a touch of my enemies enemy among the extreme Scots and Welsh nationalist fringes, there were unreconstructed pre- war fascists around, and there was a bit of (with hindsight) scarcely forgiveable starry-eyed idealism among pacifists, but the country as a whole was pretty solid. We were, after all, fighting the Germans (again).

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 09:12 AM

Guest 03 Jul 06 - 08:39 AM, I think it is time for you to go away and read a few more books. If you must come back, please do what those, who have responded to you have done, and put a name to your posts.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 09:25 AM

Lots of British spies like this one Guest?

EDDIE CHAPMAN

A deserter from the Coldstream Guards in the 1930s he then turned to crime. A safecracker by profession and serving fourteen years in jail on Jersey in the Channel Islands, at that time under German occupation, he volunteered to spy for the Germans in England. He was trained at the Abwehr sabotage school at Nantes in France and then was parachuted into England on December 20, 1942, with a mission to blow up the De Havilland aircraft factory at Hatfield, in Hertfordshire, which was producing the new fighter-bomber, the Mosquito.

After landing, he contacted British Intelligence who contrived a plan to blow up part of the factory not in use, giving the Germans the impression that the mission had succeeded. On returning to Jersey for more work, Eddie Chapman (Code Name 'ZigZag') was decorated with the German Iron Cross. After the war, Chapman was also given a British decoration, the only Englishman thus awarded! Later he set up a health farm and died aged 83 in 1997 leaving a wife and daughter.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 09:30 AM

Interesting stuff, Ronald. The ironical thing is...had the Germans won, all those guys you mention would be recorded in the history books as heroes, men of vision, freedom-fighters, courageous free thinkers of their time who had the good sense to oppose the "corrupt and archaic Churchillian forces" that were holding Great Britain and western Europe back in the "dark ages" and standing in the way of social enlightenment and liberation, etc...blah, blah, blah!

Just like what we have in our history books now, in other words, only the opposite way around.

Heh!

Self-serving propaganda knows no borders. And when you're young and full of fire to join in a "glorious" war effort....just hope to God that your side wins! It can be very nasty when they don't.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 09:48 AM

Very postmodern LH. Except that some of us believe that there were principles involved, that imperfect as our world is, it's a damn sight better than anything the Fascists, Nazis, Falangists etc. had on offer.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:27 AM

There were many Germans, Italians, Japanese, and many others, willing to fight for their 'new' countries with the Allies, against their old 'homeland', and treated with great suspicion because of it... the same was the case with Negroes, or African Americans, as they are called these days.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:38 AM

Nations are made up of individuals (duh so no one would expect *everyone* to be in lockstep. Ronald Healey is a troll- and not even a very good one.

(With a name like that, he may have recently discovered his grandfather and his granduncles were on the wrong side of the conflict...)

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Ronald Healey
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:02 AM

Family from Reading in Berks, Ebbie.

Nations are made up of individuals (duh so no one would expect *everyone* to be in lockstep. Silly statement.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:36 AM

Not a troll?

In Alaska, trolling is done by putting in your line and seeing if anything bites.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: SharonA
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:39 AM

Never heard of Lord Haw Haw. With a name like that, I just had to look it up! Seems he was a kind of European "Tokyo Rose". It also seems that the character was played by several different people, not just William Joyce. Anybody know if they were all caught and prosecuted?

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,X the Unknown
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:40 AM

Of course there were even more people from the "German side" working for us, most notably (though indirectly) the July 20 plotters, including FM Erwin Rommel. Nazi spymaster ADM Canaris seems to have actually become an American agent during the war.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:54 AM

Well Guest Ronald Healey, you have a lot of reading to do mate. I do not know how old you are, or how old your parents are, I suspect not alive during the war. There were very few ordinary people who supported Hitler in England after 1939. Prior to 1939 a few wealthy people in England openly admired Hitler for his perceived leadership role in stabilizing Germany; and preventing it from turning to communism. This even included some members of our Royal Family. In 1939 that changed, and the vast majority of the British went to war determined to smash the Nazis. Many Germans were not avid supporters of the Nazis either, but you could get shot and beaten up if you opposed them, so they complied.

I sailed with a stateless person who was a university educated Estonian man who spoke Polish, German and French. Training as an engineer he studied in Germany, Poland and learned some French at school. He had no passport because when Germany invaded Estonia in 1942, an SS officer held a Luger pistol to his head and asked him if he was going to join the Estonian Foreign SS Partizanjaeger (resistance hunter unit) Of course a NO answer would mean a bullet in the brain so he responded Ja...yes absolutely I volunteer.... His job was to assist in the interrogation of prisoners as an interpreter. (he did not hurt anyone) Because of this he was a wanted war criminal in his own hometown(despite escaping from the SS after six months and eventually making it to the UK) The only id document he was allowed was a British Merchant Seamans Discharge Book, and he could only work as an unlicensed crewman in the engine room of ships that were never likely to go to a Soviet Union port of call (instant arrest and execution if he landed there, tried and convicted of war crimes in absentia) Not everyone was a willing member of the Waffen SS, 60% of the foreigners were conscripts, who were given the choice to face Allied bullets or German bullets.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 12:25 PM

What a silly debate! Every history book I read says that wars are about gain. Germany wanted to do to Europe what England had done to Britain, colonize it - at any cost - and make the natives speak THEIR language.

The same thing as happened in Australia, America and countless otber nations down through time. Invasion, assimilation or eradication.

Please don't try to make this some kind of diabolical scheme to do something else when as well as Jews the Nazis also exterminated 6 million of the poorest of the poor in Europe.

They were after all doing in Europe what had been done to Armenians in Turkey, and before that what had been done to the Cherokee Nation in Georgia/Carolinas/ Tenn etc by the USA. Marched to death, shot dead over trenches, starved to death, and used for various preverted experiments.

Nobody today can claim to be guiltless in this regard.

Oh and yall Blighters never ever forget what your Cromwell did in Drogheda Ireland - even to his own kind!- every man, woman and LITTLE CHILD slughtered! with no mercy and hatred that no animal in the butchers barn ever had to endure!

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Ronald Healey
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 12:28 PM

I hate the very word Nazism. To say there was little or no support for Hitler in Britain is wrong. No Fifth Column activities either I imagine. Dave both my father and father in law served in the Navy during the war.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 01:13 PM

Ronald you (and they) should know better then; I think you need help to understand that the activity of a few, did not mean there were thousands who supported Hitler in England. There were very few succesfull saboteurs and fifth columnists in the UK during the war.
We caught most spies and either turned them into double agents, or eliminated them very quickly with few exceptions. One of the biggest problems we had was the Communist agitators in our trade unions who caused no end of trouble to the war effort; but the hearts of the working people were not always fooled by them; and we all know what happened to Herr Hitler.

For the most part, we had a lot of people from other nations (Holland, Poland, France, Belgium and Norway in particular) who worked very closely with our secret service to make sure we were succesfull. Ask your relatives about the Polish submarines Sokol,Wilk, Orzel, Dzik, The Dutch submarines O-16 O-19 O-21. If they dont know, then get reading.

My father was in the Navy on HMS Penelope and HMS Montclair. Trained as a SBA and CPO Diver/Articifer. He served in Europe, the Meditereanean, Australia and was in Hong Kong for the surrender of the Japanese. My mother was a Wren in Porstmouth and one of her sisters a WAC(involved in top secret signals) Two of my uncles served in the RN, one in the Army, and my Grand Uncle was a distinguished naval officer both at sea and ashore in both world wars. My grandfather served in the army during WW1, and police force in WW2. Another relative by marriage worked for British Security Coordination; that is William Stephenson (aka Intrepid) Some of the people I worked with as a young man were quite senior officers in the Royal Navy; who became Merchant Ship captains after the war. They all told a very different story to the one you are spinning mate.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 01:56 PM

Yes very interesting, but not actually true, though. 3000 defenders of Drogheda were massacred after the town refused to surrender. It was true that Cromwell lost control of his men, but the same thing happened whenever an army was forced to assault a fortified place after a 'practicable breach' was made (cf storming of Magdeburg 1631). This part of Cromwell's career can be related to the European Wars of Religion. A great many lies were told by both sides.

So few British actually enlisted in what was to be the British Battalion of the SS that it never formed. The SS did recruit from other European countries in much greater strength after these countries had been occupied details here
It certainly makes me wonder why someone would start a thread like this claiming a 'British SS unit' when the facts are that there were 20 British and 10 Commonwealth prisoners of war in this so-called unit, and they never say any action!

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 04:38 PM

sorefingers:

To indicate they were all the same and broadbrush everyone as you do shows a lack of comprehension which is either brain damage or much more likely, trollery on your part.

It is true that genocide is a common part of our communal history. What is also true is that Nazi Germany brought it to a new level by instituting not on an outside enemy, but on their own citizens and captive civilian population, and industrializing it, and the world (or most of it) recognized this as a new level of evil which is why the Nuremburg Trials.

It is not racially unique among Europeans or Germans to commit these sorts of crimes, and they occur between and within populations, viz. the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, and the Rwandan inter-tribal genocide.

To broadbrush it purely to get an effect is perhaps what you intended, but in muddying the waters I believe you are displaying the coalescing of a lot of gray matter between your ears.

As to the thread topic, the actions of the British Empire and her leaders speak to the quite minor level of pro-fascist activity once the war had begun, and there was quite a lot of pre-war anti-nazi activity on her part. The existence of Lindbergh and his America-first cohorts, and the despicable Henry Ford speak to the fact that Nazism was a would-be global movement which took global involvement to defeat.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 04:57 PM

So why did you start this thread with your first ever post Ronald?
In reply to Shambles' Fighting Irish thread? (That followed the commemoration of 90th aniversary of the Somme)
Are you not the latest in the string of anti British Guests, who each have their own silly guest name, but all of whose posts are utterly interchangeable.
Know any Mudcatters from Reading area? Been to any gigs?

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 07:40 PM

Marty sent all his friends here, Keith...

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 07:57 PM

Did your father serve on the HMS Bellona, "Ronald"?

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:18 PM

robomatic, what I believe is that every Power since the beginning of time has, and will continue to eraze other nations for gain.

It isn't for the people who live in the doomed nation that such things are done, no Sir, it's for the land, it's for the property, it's for the profit of war.

Perhaps your circuitry is burned out?

Nazis or Ulster Planters, same goal, slaugther the native population and take their property. Scottish Settler or Turkish barbarian, same goal slaughter the native population and take their property.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Sitting Bull
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 08:20 PM

Tell me about it.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 09:28 PM

Goll, Ronald; I never knew about all those British Nazis. Here I was not realizing that I should hate everything British, including the Brits who frequent this forum. I truly appreciate how you have enlightened me, and how this knowledge will improve the entire quality of my life, and enable me to better live as an effective citizen of the world.



You can go slither back under the rock now.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 10:25 PM

Then there was Prescott Bush in the US who was helping out his business friend, Fritz Thyssen. But hey, who cares, right? It was about money and so that made it respectable.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jul 06 - 11:05 PM

Paul Burke - I am only TOO well aware that there were an enormous number of VERY good reasons to fight against the Nazis, the Italian fascists, and the Japanese expansionist militarists in WWII!

And I unhestitatingly support the more democratic ideals of many of those who fought against them...as I also support the self-defensive efforts of Russians who rightly fought to free their invaded country. The Russians were unfortunate to be living under a horrible tyrant, but their fight against the Germans was entirely justified.

Nevertheless, I was making some philosophical points in my initial post:

1. that good people, well intentioned people, people of splendid character end up serving all sides in any war...but only the ones on the winning side get to be called "heroes" when the war ends.

2. that rebellious or unconventional types sometimes resist the general trend in their own nation and even act directly against it, and end up working for "the other side" as spies, agents, saboteurs, etc...and sometimes they do it because they are wholly convinced that the other side is morally superior to those running the homefront...BUT, once again...only the ones on the winning side get to be called "heroes" after the war. The ones that lose get executed.

3. that bad people, sadistic creeps, and psychopathic murderers end up enthusiastically serving for ALL sides in any war...but once again, only the ones on the winning side get to be called "heroes" after the war, get medals pinned on their chests, and get to judge and condemn some other people who are quite possibly no worse than them...or maybe much better than them...but had the bad fortune to be on the losing side.

4. And that's the sad truth about war!

What I said in my original post was intended as a philosophical statement about human nature throughout all history. It was NOT an attempt to make any excuses for WWII Naziism and Fascism.

Clear?

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: LadyJean
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:55 AM

There was, of course, Unity Mitford and her family, who referred to Hitler as "Hittles". That's almost funny. Poor Unity shot herself when England declared war on Germany. But she survived for a couple of years.

P.G. Wodehouse was living in France when the Germans invaded. He was interned as an enemy alien. So, he did what any writer would do, he began a chronicle of his experiences as an internee. I've read some of his pieces. They are classic examples of Wodehouse's low key humor. The Germans don't come off looking very well in them. He has a lovely description of the very fat camp commandant climbing a hill.
Wodehouse was asked if he wanted to broadcast his essays.
The United States hadn't joined the war yet. Wodehouse had lived in the U.S. He had a number of friends over here, and he decided that this would be a good way to communicate with them. So, he told the world about the fat camp commandant, and other entertaining items. (If Nazis had any brains, they wouldn't be Nazis.)
Wodehouse was denounced as a traitor, by his fellow Britons. You will still read that he was a quisling who made propaganda broadcasts.
Like all internees, he was released when he turned 60. (His roommate at the camp, a piano tuner, was released at the same time, because he was also 60. Though, as Wodehouse pointed out, he had tuned no German pianos.) Like most people from his generation, he had friends in Germany, and he spent the rest of the war with them.
Afterwards he left England for the U.S. and remained here until he died. 30 years after Hitler fell, Wodehouse was knighted. He was past 90 then, and too old to attend the ceremony.
The true irony of this is that Wodehouse had satirized the British Facists. The moronic Bertie Wooster falls afoul of the head of the Black Shorts. Jeeves saves him by telling him that the Facist owns a lingerie store. Find the story. It's a howl!

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 03:18 AM

So Ronald, after 24hours of this thread we find that not one single Briton did actually fight for Hitler.

Like all your recent posts, under all your recent names, about the British Army, British Police, England football fans, British bigots, British racists and (my favorite) British ageists, the vey premise of this thread is a lie.
You are a sad, obsessed man.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 11:27 AM

Keith, it doesn't matter whether a Brit was a nazi, we all know that loads of them were.

Lots fought for Hitler simply by doing their thing, the Orange Order of N Ireland was racist to its core then and supported Herr Hitler, the same applies to the luny right in Liverpool, Glasgow and many other cities in the UK. These same cities today host an ever growing anti Jewish, anti Black and anti everything that isn't the same as themselves. Orange men in Canada with roots in these cities were PRO Hitler!

In the USA the KKK reveled ( it still does ) in the disgusting excesses of the Nazis as they ghetto-ised the Jews of Poland and everywhere else. The KKK preached - No Niggas, No Pape-ies and No Jewies - they still do!


In that company the IRA would barely deserves a mention.

In fact, when it comes to who wouldv'e welcomed the Nazis, the Anglonazies far outstrip their Celtic neighbors in accomodation and the art of perfidity. In Ireland and Scotland the Germans would have had to deal with guerilla war, in England it would have had to deal with too much tea and cricket.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 11:45 AM

No, you are quite wrong.
When Britain stood alone in 1940, it was with no illusion about a quick victory and the boys being home by Christmas.
There was an acceptance that invasion was inevitable and defeat probable.
Few war leaders have said to their people, I can promise you nothing but blood, toil, tears, and sweat.
Churchill admitted that they would have to fight on their own beaches, fields, streets and hills. He could not promise victory, only that surrender would not be considered.
Preparations were made to fight on after defeat and occupation.
It is an insult to my parents' generation to spout crap like that.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 11:50 AM

Well, the SS raised whole formations of men from all of the various occupied countries...to fight for the Reich in its elite Nazi battalions. I'm sure they would have raised similar formations from the British population, had they succeeded in occupying the UK.

Remember: nothing succeeds like success. A lot of people just naturally like a winner...and the Germans appeared to be winning for quite some time there.

Lady Jean - I must take exception to your one statement: "(If Nazis had any brains, they wouldn't be Nazis.)"

Ha! Having brains is NO prerequisite to having scruples...or good judgement about which political cause to back...specially when it happens on homeground and appears to be in the ascendency. To the contrary, there were many very intelligent, highly capable, and downright brilliant people on the Nazi side in WWII...as there were on the other side as well...as there were in Japan and Soviet Russia and every other combatant nation.

It is a common human conceit to imagine that all one's political opponents must be by definition stupid. Not so! The Left often makes that facile mistake when sizing up everyone on the extreme right, and vice versa too.

There are always some very bright people involved in every great or ignoble cause.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:01 PM

You're correct, Keith. The British fought in 1940 because they had no choice but to fight...and hope for the best. The odds against them at the time did not look good at all...and had the Germans handled the Battle of Britain a little better and kept bombing the fighter airfields, then the UK would probably have fallen to a German invasion.

There is a possibility that the British could have negotiated with Hitler...Hitler certainly hoped and expected they would, and this delayed his attack on England and greatly hampered its effectiveness when it came.

Churchill, however, had no intention of making any such arrangement...nor, I think, did the British population in general.

Hitler grossly misread the British character, probably because Hitler was under the impression that he was a "good guy" and that other people would see that he had all the answers to make life wonderful if they just thought about it a little... ;-)

Every political leader thinks his own ideas are just exactly what the world needs, after all! He probably could not fathom why the British didn't want to stop fighting Germany, join up with the Germans, and go knock out the Communists in Russia.

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 12:28 PM

All our yesterdays !

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 01:37 PM

sorefingers posts:Lots fought for Hitler simply by doing their thing, the Orange Order of N Ireland was racist to its core then and supported Herr Hitler

Load of bollocks mate. If this were true, explain to me then why my grandfather, a lifelong Orangeman, along with loads of other men in his unit fought against the nazi scum? Ive photos of him and his unit wearing their sashes and uniforms of the British army during the second world war. Your lies do a terrible dishonour to these men and all who fought against the nazis. You should be ashamed!

Subject: RE: BS: The British who fought for Hitler
From: GUEST,ancient Briton
Date: 04 Jul 06 - 02:44 PM

Guest Ronald Heley is clearly a citizen of one of those nations which primarily defines itself by comparison to the UK or perhaps to England.

As a resident of England, Ronald, I don't give a tuppeny damn if a few brits signed up for Hitler. I've no doubt some of your own countrymen informed for the Brits or spied for the redskins or the equivalent.

England's never been sold to me as being anything other than what most grown-ups know it to be and to have been. In truth I don't care for it that much, but I don't see any nobler or more saintly places to live.

Get a life and post a thread about something interesting.

AB