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BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus...
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 24 Dec 08 - 08:21 AM Like I said during Bush's mad-dash-to-attack-Iraq, if he was such a bad man then why didn't the Bush adminustration just assasinate him??? (But, Bobert... That would have been illegal...) Oh, killing upwards of a million Iraqis, many of them kids and moms and old people was okay but, horrors, don't kill Saddam??? (But, Bobert... The US had no way of getting to him to kill him...) Oh, but Dan Rather had no problems getting himself and a camera crew into his office... I don't buy line of Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz/Perle/Rice Defense anymore than I'd buy a bridge to nowhere... It's got more holes in it than swiss cheeeze... The reality on the ground on January 27, 2003 was that this war was not called for... Period!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 24 Dec 08 - 08:44 AM I disagree with your opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: kendall Date: 24 Dec 08 - 08:50 AM I was speaking from his point of view. According to him, the Kurds had tried to overthrow him, so he hit them...hard. When did he cease being our pal? Was it shortly after he used the gas on the Kurds? the gas that the Reagan gang supplied him with? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 24 Dec 08 - 09:39 AM Kendall, And Hitler felt it was all the Jews fault, so he was ok to (legally) kill them, and the gypsies, homosexuals, and handicapped. As long as he felt it was ok, why should we have bothered him??? But FDR wanted to steal ( something) from him, and revitilize the economy, so... 27 million dead. Bush was a piker, compared to FDR. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Riginslinger Date: 24 Dec 08 - 10:01 AM "But FDR wanted to steal ( something) from him, and revitilize the economy, so... 27 million dead..." Okay, I'll bite. What was it that FDR wanted to steal from Hitler? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 24 Dec 08 - 10:05 AM Don't know, but why else would he back the British? We don't care about other people, you know. After all, we went into Iraq only to steal the oil ( that we did not take) Bobert said so, so it must be true. And check when the Great Depression ended- it only got worse under FDR, until we got into war- THAT was what brought us out of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: kendall Date: 24 Dec 08 - 10:30 AM It got worse because the republicans fought him tooth and nail, and he lacked the balls to really bear down and take control. Of course, when he slapped a tax on undistributed profits in 1936, that diidn't help. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: kendall Date: 24 Dec 08 - 11:39 AM FDR has been called the greatest president of the 20th century, but, he lost a lot of my respect when I learned that he refused to allow a shipload of Jews who were fleeing the Nazis to land here. He was getting reports from Europe on what Hitler was doing and he didn't want to hear it so he finally told his reporters to stop giving him the reports. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 24 Dec 08 - 01:08 PM Of course you "disagree with mu opinion", bruce... You did then as well... You were looking for justifications for war and I was looking for ways to avoid it and now that this much blood has been spent you have not other choice to go to your grave defending this stupid war... If you allowed yourself to admit that it was wrong then you'd have to face the guilt of having been such a strong supporter... You are in a real pickle of your own making, bruce... So is Bush and everyone else who will also take their stubborness to the grave... Historians will get this right... I feel for all of you... BTW, I don't have a clue about blaming the invasion of those of us who demostrated against the war... That is the most twisted illogic that U have heard to date regarding this stupid war... I mean, one would have to have given one's mind over, much like the brownshirts did for Hitler, to believe such utter and rediculous crap... B!~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Barry Finn Date: 24 Dec 08 - 01:42 PM Look, Bush was wrong no matter who you compare him to. He lied to the people, he lied to Congress, he lied to the world, he wanted his war & he got it, a real disaster. As the Grand Uniter he split the country, he force fed US a fear mongering policy, he took away loads of our civil & human rights, he trashed the Bill of Rights, a good percentage of the Amendments & pissed on our Constitution. He led a policy of torture & established a new form of prisoner treatment call "Extreme Rendition" in defience of the Geneva Conventions, he restarted the centuries old crusades of the West against the East to regain the "Oily Land" & his quest for "Oily Grail" has not only killed mass amounts of people, he's prevented peace from coming to the Mid East & therefore the world. His war has cost US in part the economic disater we're in now. Oh, I thought it was the Banks & mortgages that caused that? Ya, but if we had back the billions he's thrown into the desert sands would we be in as bad a shape as we are now? Bush's war wasn't a mistake, a mistake is when you add up figures & you did it wrong, a mistake is when you forget & call someone by a wrong name, a mistake is when you forget to pay a bill on time. This was a tragedy, a once in a century disaster, a life time seditious act, a international calamity & a national catasrophe & worst it was on purpose & he only needed the help of a few traitors to pull it off. Obama, when he gets into office, should line him & his henchmen in front of a firing squad after they've been made to confess by the use of waterboarding, a sport that they condoned. A 'MISTAKE', you have to be kidding!!!! Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 24 Dec 08 - 02:01 PM Hear, hear, Barry... Couldn't have said it better myself... But then again, bb can sgrug off what you say as just your "opinion"... Ans seems that the newest twist is blaming the anti0war folks for the war... Yeah, that takes a major leap from reality into the abyss but that is apparently the garbafe that has been cooked up by the war-mongersto protect them from having to accept "personal responsibilty" for their support... Tell ya' what, Barry... This stupid war has buried the phrase "personal responsibilty" from their collective vocabularies... They dare not utter it now... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 24 Dec 08 - 02:05 PM Bobert, We disagree. Shall I state that now that this much blood has been spent you have not other choice to go to your grave defending your actions aginst Bush that caused this war? If you allowed yourself to admit that it was wrong then you'd have to face the guilt of having been such a strong supporter of Saddam, encouraging him to refuse to comply with the UNR.... ? In my opinion, MY statement is true: I have seen no reason to think otherwise in all your stated opinions. As long as you refuse to consider that others may hold different opinions and have reason to do so, you will never be able to persuade other to even consider that YOUR opinion has any basis in reality. Stating you are right and others are wrong is not indicative of a reasoning person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 24 Dec 08 - 02:07 PM "newest twist "????? Further evidence that you do not bother to even read what anyone you disagree with has said- I have stated this for quite a while. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:37 PM Oh, you can take it to the bank that I'm readin' it, bruce... Posted by: beardedbruce 24 Dec 08 08:17am "Bobert You are in denial that your support of the protesters helped cause the war you wanted to prevent." These are your words, bb, and I'm sure everyone of us protesters and supporters of protesters would consider this to be a "new twist" by the pro-war folks here as to why Bush went against all logic on the ground and ordered the invasion anyway... I mean, until today I had never had that lame excuse for the war added to the the long list of other lame excuses... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Barry Finn Date: 24 Dec 08 - 03:41 PM Believe what ever you want but Bush pushed for ths war, he lied about our reasons for starting it (We did start it, when you're in a fight it the guy who throws the first punch who started it, no matter what he said about your mother), he pushed in every way possible to get it going & he did it without any consent form anyone or any BODY, as he said he'll go it alone if need be. When someone has a gun on you, you don't goad them by saying "go ahead & shoot", it doesn't matter we shot even if we were goaded. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Sawzaw Date: 24 Dec 08 - 04:20 PM Kendall: In plain English you stated "How many people would still be alive if the USA would just stay out of other countries business? We have started every war that we have ever been a part of and this latest is the most transparent of them all. I have stated that America did NOT start every war we have ever been in but you keep changing your statement to hide it incorrectness. Also I have asked how that courese of action worked for Rwanda. And I have asked if America should stay out of Sudan's business. It is realtive to your statement. Do you have an answer? To answer your question about how many people would be alive, I think more people are alive because we acted than would be alive if we had not acted. That is a difficult if not impossible thing to prove except by examples on individual actions. I ask your opinion on Rwanda and Sudan as examples. Are there more people alive in Kosovo because America got involved or do you think we should have butted out and let the chips fall? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Sawzaw Date: 24 Dec 08 - 04:28 PM Iraq shows torture tools used by Saddam's sonAssociated Press BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Torture equipment used by Saddam Hussein's slain son, Odai, to punish under performing Iraqi athletes was displayed Saturday at a Baghdad sports stadium in advance of the opening of the Olympics next month in Athens. Journalists were shown medieval-style torture equipment, including an "iron maiden-like" casket with metal spikes fixed to the inside that athletes had been forced into and chain whips with steel barbs the size of tennis balls attached to the end. "During the old regime, Odai was looking for results and he wanted winners. He didn't like second place," Talib Mutan, an Iraqi Olympics Committee official, told Associated Press Television News. "If the athletes didn't come in first, they were punished. And he would punish the people around the athletes, their managers and coaches included," Mutan said. Odai, who ran the Olympic committee while his father ruled Iraq, and his younger brother Qusai were killed in a fierce gunbattle with U.S. forces a year ago in the northern city of Mosul. Mutan said athletes who earned Odai's wrath were tortured in various ways, through beatings, sleep deprivation and being forced to walk barefoot over hot asphalt during Iraq's searing summer. The official said suggestions had been made to display the torture equipment in a museum, but there had been no final decision. The International Olympic Committee reinstated Iraq's national Olympic committee in February after it was suspended following the fall of Saddam's regime in 2003, enabling Iraqi athletes to compete at this year's Summer Games. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1090765982807_13?hub=World |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 24 Dec 08 - 07:26 PM No one on our side is sayin' that Saddam was saint, Sawz, so please don't beat that drum... The "Saddam is a bad man" excu7se holds no more validity than the rest of the boneheaded excuses, including the new one that my friend, bb, has added to the list of boneheaded excuses... There is no excuse that you guys can come up with that will stand the test of time with the historians... This war was wrong... It was evil... It was imperalistic... It was colonialistic... It was un-American... It was illegeal... It was based on lies, lies and more lies... Your side will not turn this back on the folks who tried to stop it... It's your war... Not Barry Finn's... Not Amos's... Nor CarolC's... Not Jack the Sailor's... Not Kendall's... Not katlaughin's... Not LarryOBU's... Not Little Hawk's... Not Big Mick's... Not Frank's... Not mine... Not, not and not... It is not on our consciences.... But it very much on those who not only lacked the courage to stand up to Bush but who even now continue to try to spin their way out... Jesus sais that there is nothing hidden that one day won't be found and no secrets that one day won't be common knowledge and Jesus hit the nail on the head with you and yer buddies... There is no place you can hide... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: kendall Date: 24 Dec 08 - 07:57 PM Sawzaw, I majored in American history at the U of M. I answered your questions and you simply refuse to understand. I think you owe me an apology for questioning my manhood and morality, and until I get it, I have nothing more to say to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 24 Dec 08 - 08:08 PM Welcome to Sawz world, Capt'n...This is his MO... Hw was the same when he was Old Guy... Didn't change when he bacame Dickey and hasn'r changed this time either... The onlt thing that changes is his handle other than that, he doesn't change, he just gets more so... He won't apologize... He won't admit that he is wrong... This is his nature... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: kendall Date: 25 Dec 08 - 03:54 AM No one else seems to be having trouble understanding what I said; can he really be that thick? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 10:52 AM Bobert, "Oh, you can take it to the bank that I'm readin' it, bruce..." "I mean, until today I had never had that lame excuse for the war " But the point is that I made THIS POINT a number of times in the PAST, starting in 2003. You obviously have NOT been reading whta has been written, if you think this is a new idea, or that had not posted it before. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbtruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 12:04 PM Bobert, I am glad you know what Jesus said- perhaps you recall "Judge not,..."? But it very much on those who not only lacked the courage to stand up for Bush and what was right but who even now continue to try to spin the facts... Jesus said that there is nothing hidden that one day won't be found and no secrets that one day won't be common knowledge and Jesus hit the nail on the head with you and yer buddies... There is no place you can hide... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 25 Dec 08 - 12:31 PM Old Testamnet thinking... Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the temple because He "judged" them to be disrespecting the temple... It is my "belief" that Jesus wants us to stand up when we see things are wrong and this war was wrong... Jesus, if He were of the flesh during the mad-dash days would have been in those demonstrations and would have been on the internet trying to bring His voice of reason to bear on those who were supportive of this senseless, immoral and unChristain war... So I stand behind the two quotes, bb... I'm not judging you, or Sawz or Teribus to be bad people... But I am judging your support for this killing spree... And I very much feel that, yeah, if there is a Heaven and it reserves for folks who tried to be righteous that folks who supported this war are going to have a very difficult time with St. Peter if in this life these folks haven't asked for forgivenss for this support... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 12:45 PM Bobert, It is my "belief" that Jesus wants us to stand up when we see things are wrong and to allow Saddam to contuinue to violate the UNR was wrong. "But I am judging your support for this killing spree... " You ARE judgeing: In my honet opinion, what I support is the right thing, and what you support had the result of causing the war and more deaths than needed. Should * I * have acted in a way that I consider wrong? Yet you claim I will not go to heavan- Much as many claim that those who do not follow their narrow, limited views are condemend |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 12:49 PM And I very much feel that, yeah, if there is a Heaven and it reserves for folks who tried to be righteous that folks who supported Saddam in not complying with the UNR are going to have a very difficult time with St. Peter if in this life these folks haven't asked for forgivenss for this support... So I guess I will see you all in Hell. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 25 Dec 08 - 01:01 PM Bull, bb... Bull!!! Had you and Bush listened to us you two wouldn't have all this blood on your hands... Blaming folks who tried to stp this war is nothing but a defense mechanism on your part... It makes no more sense than blaming victims of crimes for the crimes... But if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to continue down this road of denial, projection and transference then have it... The folks on our side know who stood up for humanity and it wasn't your side... Period... You can parrot your mythology about how the anti-war folks are the ones responsible for the war as long as you like... It just such 100% unalter bull that it doesn't deserve any further comment from me... So, deny away... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 01:03 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 01:06 PM Jawohl, Herr Ubermench! You seem to be missing the point- YOU are the one in denial. Had you and your anti-Bush friends listened to us you wouldn't have all this blood on your hands... Blaming folks who tried to have Saddam comply with the UNR instead of forcing a war is nothing but a defense mechanism on your part... It makes no more sense than blaming victims of crimes for the crimes... But if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy to continue down this road of denial, projection and transference then have it... The folks on our side know who stood up for humanity and it wasn't your side... Period... You can parrot your mythology about how the Bush folks are the ones responsible for the war as long as you like... It just such 100% unalter bull that it doesn't deserve any further comment from me... So, deny away... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: michaelr Date: 25 Dec 08 - 02:31 PM Give it up, Bobert. There's no point in arguing with an idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,Amos Date: 25 Dec 08 - 03:18 PM Bruce: I think you really need to rethink your perspective on this issue. Hundreds of thousands of wrongful deaths is no matter to be stuck in rightness about. It is a glaring, colossal offense, no matter how rationalized it is made. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 03:51 PM Amos, You are correct. Those wrongful deaths are a horrible thing, and if the "popular" view ( as presented by demonstrations and news reports)had not been that Saddam did not need to comply, he probably would have left ( or complied) and those deaths would not have occurred. The support I see here for Saddam not complying is a glaring, colossal offense, no matter how rationalized it is made. The stated purpose of those who caused this war, by that support (peace), does not match the actual effect of their actions. Others may disagree, but I have to support what I believe is the moral, correct path- as I see it. I have been shown nothing here to alter that opinion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 25 Dec 08 - 04:14 PM Like michael said, Amos... There is no way to break thru... bb has his head in the sand and has concocked the most unbelievable rationalization that anyone could and he's going to ride that rationalization to the grave... He couldn't care less about the inspectors of that Iraq was letting them inspect anywhere they wanted and was cooperating with the inspectors... To hell with inspectors is purdy much his opionion... No, it isn't rational thinking... Nor is his mythology that anti-war folks caused the war... It is flat earth thinking... Or not thinking... Or, danged if I know what it is, other than mythology... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 04:37 PM "He couldn't care less about the inspectors of that Iraq was letting them inspect anywhere they wanted and was cooperating with the inspectors..." Except they were not, according to Blix. He was still not getting the active cooperation, according to the Jan 27 report YOU quoted: Too bad you never read the rest of it. My concience is clear- but I do not know how you live with all the dead that Saddam caused, because you supported not enforcing the sanctions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: kendall Date: 25 Dec 08 - 04:53 PM BB if you want to go back to the VERY beginning, we had no right to invade Iraq the FIRST time! We have made the Middle East filthy rich by buying their oil. Why can't they settle their own disputes? You are using our anti war stand after Saddam refused to comply with the UN orders. We invaded him, ordered him to not fly over his own country, continued inspections of his country, including his palaces, for 7 years for what? OIL. Let's start at the beginning. Our Ambassador appointed by George H.W. Bush told Saddam that we didn't care what he did over there, so he invaded Kuwait. While our military were fighting the Iraqi invaders, their own young men were cruising the streets of Cairo trying to pick up chicks! We got sucked into another damned war. Those reports of Iraqui soldiers stealing incubation units from Kuwait, and dumping babies out of them in the process was just more propaganda. The woman who reported that admitted later that it was not true. Personally, I don't give a rats ass who invaded who over there as long as they leave Israel alone. I'm sick to death of my leaders spending us into the poor house bombing women and children while our own children go without medical care. That is MY idea of barbaric! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 04:56 PM Well, Sawzaw, I tried to explain but they seem unwilling to even consider reality. There is no way to break thru... Bobert has his head in the sand and has concocked the most unbelievable rationalization that anyone could and he's going to ride that rationalization to the grave... A pity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Greg F. Date: 25 Dec 08 - 05:29 PM ...bb has his head in the sand... I take exception to this- not true. He has his head up his arse! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 25 Dec 08 - 05:40 PM No, bb... You missed the the part where Blix said "the *****most***** important point to make is that access has been provided to all sites we have wanted to inspect..." Exactly what superceeds the word "most"??? That ain't cherry pickin'... If the man said "most" then he most likely meant, ahhhh, "most".... I have read and reread Blix's report and found no reason why Blix didn't mean "most" or where Blix reported conflicting information about his team being able to conduct it's work... That, quite simply, is why Bush was wrong in his "The Decider" decsion to pull the plug on Blix's team... The only "pity" here is for bb and the other 2/3rds of the Axis of Evil, T and Sawz... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Don Firth Date: 25 Dec 08 - 05:51 PM ". . . but they seem unwilling to even consider reality." Am I right in that BB is blaming anti-war demonstrators for the war in Iraq? [Cue theme from The Twilight Zone. . . .] Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 25 Dec 08 - 06:09 PM So, "most" is "all" ?? If I owed you $10 dollars, you woyuld obviously settle for $6 repid- that is "most" anyway. "anywhere they wanted " Is not most, it is all. And they would have to know where- which was NOT the intent of the inspectors. Greg F: I take exception to assholes who do not know how to discuss differences, but attack the person they disagree with. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 25 Dec 08 - 06:40 PM I'm with you, Don... Me thinks that bb has a screw loose... He is beginning to sound like one of those guys who stands on the corner with a sign that reads, "Repent, the End is Near"... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Barry Finn Date: 26 Dec 08 - 01:04 AM You don't put a bullet in the head of the schoolyard bully, no matter what the reason, unless you can prove he's put a gun to your hear. We pulled the gun, pulled the trigger & killed the bastard, even though he was the bully we are guilty of murder, mass murder! We refused to find other soul-tions, we refused to take trhe time to work out other alteratives, (sorry, the whole inspection/resolution stuff was all a play by the powers that dictated their own will), we didn't bother to even clear the dishes off the table, we stormed in & raised hell. We (those in the rest of the world) begged for some more time for other ways, we begged for more input, we begged formore intellegence on the situation but we were told to "fuck off"! We went in & killed civilians, bombed hospitals & places of religious practices, all this illegal aggression was against the Geneva Conventions,. We are the quilty party, Sadam was guilty of plenty but we are by far worst for the shooting of the schoolyard bully. You can condon all of our actions you want by saying that Sadam was bad & he was but you cannot condon our reaction for him not abiding by our will for the mass murder we commited against the people of his nation. They did not attack US, they did not threaten US, they did not pose a threat to US, they did nopt posses WMD's, they were not capable of hurting US but we didn't even bother to find out we rain hell on those that were only trying to survive & we killed them instead & did nothing but become the schoolyard bully ourselves. We destroyed a nation & gave back nothing in comparison to what we took away, we caused the collapse of a culture & allowed it to be raped & ransacked (also against the Geneva Conventions), provided not respute nor aid to those we mained & uprooted, we put them out in the desert sand. We didn't even think of the casualities of war or battle , we didn't have the forethought or foresight to care for the missplaced or injured or to those that would knowingly perish with out the basic life necessessities like water, food, medicine, shelter, we went in like Qurantrel went into Lawrance, Kansas (he had his excuses too, except he was on the losing side) guns blazing, open fire on innocent civilians, we hit Bagdad like it was a piece of shit, saturation bombing like the Nazi's over England, "Shock & Awe". What was disquisting was many Americans were rooting for the death & destruction we rained down over a people that did nothing against US at all!!! We didn't save them, we brought them misrey, suffering & death & in the process we lost our souls & to say that those of US who tried to stop this & were against this is likening US to the one who stands in front of a gun only to stop an innocent from being killed & then blaming US for the deaths that you let this same killer loose on the public to shoot others. WE did not pull the trigger, we did not let loose a serial killer, we did not give him the gun, we were not in any danger. It's to late to say "I thought we were in danger", it's to late to say we killed in ignorance, it's to late to say this was a mistake. We did not do enough to before we took action, we failed ourselves & the world & most of all the Iraqi people. There is no excuse for what we did & we dragged others into it, our great shame, we will not live this down for a great long time & we will pay with more than our souls. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: kendall Date: 26 Dec 08 - 08:32 AM Well said, Barry. Fellas, let's watch the comments such as ..."Assholes" you are very close to a personal attack and you know they are not permitted here. Remember "The first one who raises his voice has already lost the argument" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 26 Dec 08 - 04:55 PM Barry, I disagree with your assessment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 26 Dec 08 - 05:09 PM Yes, well said, Barry... This entire episode has been sickening... And the worst part is that the people who pulled this evil war won't be "brought to justice"... Bush deserves nothin' less than life imprisonment... But in a way, he's gotten that... I mean, other than a few die-hard fringers like bb, T and Sawz, Bush surely knows how bad he screwed up... Now the fringers want to pin the war on the anti-war folks??? That is sick logic... They say that it was the anti-war folks fault that Saddam didn't comply with UNR1441... We tried to tell them during the mad-dash days that asking Saddam to prove he didn't have something was flawed thinking... Now history has shown that sein' as there were no creepy WMDs that Saddam could never have made the fringers happy because he would have had to prove he didn't have something... I challenged the fringers then to show how one goes about proving one doesn't have something... They had no answers then and they have no answers today... This is proff positive that the Iraq war was a mistake in judegment on Bush and his fringers here in Mudville... In other words, the grounds for the war were and are bogus... You are entirely correct, Barry, that the US will never be exonerated for this war... It is a black eye that we will wear for a long time... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 26 Dec 08 - 05:13 PM Bobert, You missed most of the discussion. Saddam did NOT have to prove he did not have WMD. He had to prove that the WMD programs that he previously had had been stopped and the prohibited materials disposed of. He did not prove that. As long as you keep lying about it, and sayiong that the UN wanted hime to prove something other than the points in UNR1441, you will always be ignored, and whatever validity your arguements maight possibly have will be concealed by your obvious ignorance of the situation. Hardly the way to convince anyone you have a valid point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 26 Dec 08 - 05:45 PM Again, bb, you ask the impossible... Prove you have stopped... Prove you don't have... Prove you are not thinking... Prove all kinds of negatives... This was a puzzle with no solution... Like I sdaid then and say now, you can't prove that you ain't doing something short of folks "inspecting" (novel concept) to see if you actually are doing or not soing something... You and yer guys presented the Rubix Cube from Hell, the one with no solution, and excpeted Saddam to find a solution??? Give me a break... Prove to me, bb, without me inspecting that the socks you have on right now at blue... This is the exactly analogy of what you and the right wing fringe radicals expected of Saddam... And for the record, it isn't me who is "lieing" about anything here... History has allready shown who the lairs were and it wasn't our side... Might of fact, just about everything I predicted would occur in Iraq in the mad-dash days was proved to be correct and just about everything that you and yer right winged war mongers prdeicted has been shown to be wrong... So, I'd be real carefull about going down "Lairs Lane" again... We had a very bad round of that last time you got frustrated and thought that by screaming and insinuating that I was a lair that your side would be vindicated... It didn't happen then and I won't let you pull stunt on me/us again... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: freda underhill Date: 26 Dec 08 - 06:31 PM It's amazing how hard people try to polish a pile of shit. Here's a reality check for any retrospectively wise neocon looking for debate on a wet afternoon.. Ten myths about Iraq 2008 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 26 Dec 08 - 07:13 PM Bobert- read my lips: He had to prove that the WMD programs that he previously had had been stopped and the prohibited materials disposed of. He did not prove that. If he had dismantled the programs, there would have been evidence- please read Blix of Jan 27th. You keep ignoring what Blix states, unless it agrees with what you want to believe. "The document indicates that 13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi air force between 1983 and 1998, while Iraq has declared that 19,500 bombs were consumed during this period. Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about 1,000 tons. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, we must assume that these quantities are now unaccounted for. "The discovery of a number of 122 mm chemical rocket warheads in a bunker at the storage depot, 170 kilometers southwest of Baghdad, was much publicized. This was a relatively new bunker, and therefore the rockets must have been moved here in the past few years at a time when Iraq should not have had such munitions. The investigation of these rockets is still proceeding. Iraq states that they were overlooked from 1991 from a batch of some 2,000 that were stored there during the Gulf War. This could be the case. They could also be the tip of a submerged iceberg. The discovery of a few rockets does not resolve, but rather points to the issue of several thousand of chemical rockets that are unaccounted for. The finding of the rockets shows that Iraq needs to make more effort to ensure that its declaration is currently accurate. " Blix "Iraq has declared that it produced about 8,500 liters of this biological warfare agent, which it states it unilaterally destroyed in the summer of 1991. Iraq has provided little evidence for this production and no convincing evidence for its destruction. There are strong indications that Iraq produced more anthrax than it declared and that at least some of this was retained over the declared destruction date. It might still exist. Either it should be found and be destroyed under UNMOVIC supervision or else convincing evidence should be produced to show that it was indeed destroyed in 1991. As I reported to the council on the 19th of December last year, Iraq did not declare a significant quantity, some 650 kilos, of bacterial growth media, which was acknowledged as reported in Iraq's submission to the Amorim panel in February 1999. As a part of its 7 December 2002 declaration Iraq resubmitted the Amorim panel document but the table showing this particular import of media was not included. The absence of this table would appear to be deliberate, as the pages of the resubmitted document were renumbered. In the letter of 24th of January this year to the president of the Security Council, Iraq's foreign minister stated that, I quote, "All imported quantities of growth media were declared." This is not evidence. I note that the quantity of media involved would suffice to produce, for example, about 5,000 liters of concentrated anthrax. " Blix "These missiles might well represent prima facie cases of proscribed systems. The test ranges in excess of 150 kilometers are significant, but some further technical considerations need to be made before we reach a conclusion on this issue. In the meantime, we have asked Iraq to cease flight tests of both missiles. In addition, Iraq has refurbished its missile production infrastructure. In particular, Iraq reconstituted a number of casting chambers which had previously been destroyed under UNSCOM's supervision. They had been used in the production of solid fuel missiles. Whatever missile system these chambers are intended for, they could produce motors for missiles capable of ranges significantly greater than 150 kilometers. Also associated with these missiles and related developments is the import which has been taking place during the last two years of a number of items despite the sanctions, including as late as December 2002. Foremost among these is import of 300 rockets engines which may be used for the Al-Samud II. Iraq has also declared the recent import of chemicals used in propellants, test instrumentation and guidance and control system. These items may well be for proscribed purposes; that is yet to be determined. What is clear is that they were illegally brought into Iraq; that is, Iraq or some company in Iraq circumvented the restrictions imposed by various resolutions. " Blix |
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Subject: RE: BS: Why Iraq Was a Mistake, Teribus... From: Bobert Date: 26 Dec 08 - 07:23 PM How many times are going to pull out that Rubix Cube from Hell... Tell ya' what, bb... Lets just get dwon to brass tacks here and I'll put you in the exact trick bag that you and yer war-hungry righties put Saddam and the rest of the world... Tell me what color socks you owned in 1998... And when you do, I'm going to shoot yer argument into a million pieces... So what color socks did you own in 1998??? B~ |
