BS: David Cameron is execrable

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 15 - 08:12 PM

"The teachings of Christ sing sweetly throughout his work"
Yet religious hypocricy and the bigotry of the church was a constant theme in Burns' works - the cutty stool, the shaming of 'sinners'.. burns at his bitter best.
BURNS AND RELIGION
Burns reveled in sexuality - a total anathema to the church.
You seem to have your own take on everything which has nothing whatever to do with actual reality
"IMO Freemasonry is the epitome of cronyism,"
it is now - Burns certainly didn't regard it as such, and for the times he lived in he was a libertarian and a humanist.
Taking values from Burns' time and applying them to today just doesn't work.
a href="http://www.robertburns.org/encyclopedia/PoliticsBurnsand.720.shtml">Burns' politics
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 04:28 AM

So the man who says Hamish Henderson is not left wing also says I am a liar and an idiot? He also regularly declares he does not indulge in personal abuse, reminding me that I missed one facet of his character. Hypocrite.

You are making me jealous, Raggy. May well visit the local later for one of the best pints of Black Sheep to be had :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 04:29 AM

Except that they didn't. There were quite robust rebuttals, which were just not reported.

I saw and heard them rebutted on the media all the time.
Question Time, Any Questions, News Night, Andrew Mar, the various leaders' debates.........

I am sure that Guardian and Mirror editorials and reports did the same.
It was also a major issue in the 2010 election.

It was a fair fight, and in England the Left lost this time.
You can not ascribe that result to a feeble minded electorate or to a feeble Left incapable of responding to the opposing campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 04:35 AM

In the Guardian most certainly not. Most of them were still trying to rescue the Lib Dems. Below the line on CiF yes, but in teh comment section and the printed newspaper, no.

Andrew Marr also no, almost as tory as Nick Robinson. The latter was indisposed for part of the time and replaced by Norman Smith, even more staunchly tory.

It was a completely skewed election and I regard Cameron as no more legitimate than Kim Jong Un

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 04:54 AM

"So the man who says Hamish Henderson is not left wing"
Fair's fair Dave, he actually said nobody had heard of Hamish Henderson - get his idiocy right!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 05:00 AM

ok jim and steve,point taken

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 05:30 AM

Oh, but I think I did get it right, Jim. The exact phrase was


My time was before Gaughan, Imlach, or Henderson. Although I knew Big Hamish pretty well and respect the writing of Hamish Henderson, I wouldn't describe either as very "left wing".

Obviously being a dedicated communist is not left wing enough for our village idiot :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 05:32 AM

Andrew Mar had leading Labour figures, including Miliband every week, as did all the other programmes.
The opposing claims were put to them and they answered them.

Balance is a legal requirement for broadcasters and no party claimed that requirement was not met.
You just can not claim that Labour speakers were deprived of a media platform.

All you can say is that they failed to convince.
It was a fair fight and they lost.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 05:45 AM

Marr was once a member of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour Victory (an offshoot of the International-Communist League, now known as the Alliance for Workers' Liberty). At Cambridge, Marr says he was a "raving leftie", and he acquired the nickname 'Red Andy'

Norman Smith, during the election campaign said on Radio 4 Today that austerity was 'utterly terrifying'. He said that cuts risked taking Britain back to the sort of Depression-era poverty George Orwell wrote about in his 1937 book The Road To Wigan Pier.
The Tories objected to his bias against them.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 05:47 AM

A "dedicated Communist"....:0)

This from Gaughan is nearer the mark.... "Perhaps the only real way to remember and understand Hamish is to embrace the apparent contradictions - poet and polemicist, Internationalist and Nationalist, warrior and pacifist, realist and romantic, traditionalist and modernist, brashness masking shyness, intellectual confidence hiding personal insecurities."

Don't get me wrong I am an admirer of his work, an artist, not a "dedicated" anything.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 06:21 AM

Next we sampled what, to me, was the best beer of the festival which was the Red Fox Brewery Bitter at 3.8% very quaffable indeed. The Red Fox Brewery is in Coggeshall, Essex. We also sampled Rock a Hula 4.0% from the Rockin' Robin Brewery in Maidstone.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 06:32 AM

"Oh, but I think I did get it right, Jim.
He also said:
"In my youth Gaughan, Imlach and Henderson were unheard of."
A double helping of idiocy, you might say.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 09:12 AM

No, not dedicated at all

A lifelong socialist, he used the prize money to travel to Italy to work on his translation of the Prison Letters of Antonio Gramsci, the philosopher and founder of the Italian Communist Party, though the work was not published for many years. It was a sensitive subject in Italy at the time and Henderson was asked to leave the country.

Absolutley. It requires no dedication at all to spend your own money, laboriously translate an the prison letters of the founder of the Italian communist party, knowing that they would not be published and then have to flee a country for your own political views.

You could, of course, try to prove that this was not dedication with a quote from a person you had already dismissed as 'before your time' but that would make you look foolish wouldn't it.

Oh, hang on...

Yes indeed, Jim. Double, or even treble. Talking of which, about time I set off over them there hills to work up a thirst for some of those decent beers we have been talking about. Possibly Timmy Taylors over in Keighley before my own local Black Sheep. Looks cloudy but hopefully the rain will hold off.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 10:00 AM

As Gaughan was a personal friend of Hamish's, I would prefer to accept his views on the matter rather than your hysterical claptrap.

I also had the good fortune to meet him once in the company of Ian Hamilton.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 11:25 AM

"I would prefer to accept his views on the matter rather than your hysterical claptrap."
I'm sure you would - doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to the fact that virtually every reference to Henderson refers to him as either a communist or a Marxist and songs such as 'Freedom Come all Ye' and 'Rivonia' attest to that fact.
It really isn't a matter of "accepting" anybody's views - hysterical or otherwise, on Henderson's politics - he stated his position openly - I was pre4sent when he lectured at MacColl's 70th birthday symopsium and was even punished as a serviceman for acting on them.
It is true that he probably isn't a Marxist in your definition of the term, but Karl Marx would have had trouble convincing you that he was - you seem to be operating from your own personal dictionary that nobody else has access to.
You really should heed the maxim - 'Put not your trust in folkies".
Jim Carroll
More of his Wiki entry.
"Hamish Scott Henderson, (11 November 1919 – 9 March 2002; Scottish Gaelic: Seamas MacEanraig (Seamas Mòr)) was a Scottish poet, songwriter, communist, soldier and intellectual."
"Henderson was a socialist,[1] and beside his academic work for the University, he produced translations of the Prison Letters of Antonio Gramsci.[5] whom he had first heard of among Communist Italian partisans during the war. The translation was published in the New Edinburgh Review in 1974 and as a book in 1988.[1] He was involved in campaigns for Scottish home rule and in the foundation of the 1970s Scottish Labour Party. Henderson, who was openly bisexual, was vocal about gay rights and acceptance.[1][6]
In 1983, Henderson was voted Scot of the Year by Radio Scotland listeners when he, in protest of the Thatcher government's nuclear weapons policy, turned down an OBE.[1]2"

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 11:39 AM

The troll declared Hamish to be a "dedicated Communist", that is patently untrue. As I believe you have some knowledge of the Communist Party, you should know that Jim.
There is nothing in the Wiki piece which you quoted to indicate that he was a "dedicated Communist", rather a writer, poet and biographer, of indeterminate persuasion.
Nationalist and Internationalist.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 11:50 AM

We also tasted Topaz Blonde 3.7% from the S & P Brewery, Norwich and Great Dane 4.6% from Stonehenge Brewery, Salisbury

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 12:20 PM

" that is patently untrue"
It wasn't anything of the sort and the only thing you have put up to contradict it is a quote from a folkie
"As I believe you have some knowledge of the Communist Party,"
The onlt knowledge I have of the C.P. is what I have read - but I have known members who claimed Henderson as one of their own - horses mouth - sort of...
Hederson declared himself to be a committed Communist on the couple of occasions I met him, and his actions backed that up can't get nearer to the bone than that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 02:25 PM

Lovely walk this afternoon. Decided that I didn't have time for walking and beer so combined the two :-) First pint - After about 2 miles - was Timmy Taylors landlord. Next one - 1.5 miles later - Saltaire Blonde. Next, a mile or so later, back to Taylors, Golden Best. Then, half a mile on, Black sheep and finally, in the same pub, Leeds Pale Ale. Back home now and wondering whether the idiot is allowed out on his own. If so, I suspect he shouldn't be. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 02:58 PM

BTW - Anyone notice how the village idiot is trying to divert attention from the fact that he said that Hamish Henderson was not particularly left wing?

The troll declared Hamish to be a "dedicated Communist", that is patently untrue.

I am not sure who it is referring to but the fact remains that HH was a communist dedicated to the cause. Is it so difficult to see? How come idiocy like this is allowed to stand? I suspect Max is running an experiment to see how stupid people can be. I know I have fallen foul of it once or twice but I am pretty sure that posterity will show who were the real idiots :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 03:05 PM

"Hamish Henderson was not particularly left wing?"
Hamish was a card-carrying member of The Communist party until the invasion of Hungary in 1956.
Like many other Communists who left around the same time, he remained true to his communist convictions
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 03:10 PM

No need to tell me, Jim, I know. The village idiot seems to think it is funny to deny it. I think he needs to get a new profession :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 03:58 PM

"Hamish was never a member of the Communist Party"

Timothy Neat biographer 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Raggytash
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 04:08 PM

Then we tried a Lumford 3.9% from the Thornbridge Brewery in Bakewell and we couldn't reaaly not sample Timothy Taylors Boltmaker at 4.3%

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 04:15 PM

While you were digging your own hole Jim, I knew that he never carried a CP card.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 04:22 PM

Ahhhh, OK. This is the Timothy Neat who was born and brought up in Cornwall? Round about as far from Scotland as you can get in the British Isles? Yet it quite happily derides my view as being that of "An English resident of Polish origin ".

I think if I was not laughing so much I might start to feel sick.

Hamish Henderson was a communist. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to fool others or, even worse, trying to fool themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 04:53 PM

"Since 2002 Timothy has been working on a major two-volume biography of his great friend and collaborator, Hamish Henderson."

Take you beating like a man! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Aug 15 - 07:39 PM

Anyone notice that the village idiot seems to be trying to draw people away from the fact that he said Hamish Henderson was not particularly left wing? I would have put that down to some sort of basic intelligence if it was anyone else...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:30 AM

Impressive list of books by T Neat,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=timothy+neat&tag=googhydr-21&index=stripbooks&hvadid=28030980393&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=s&hvrand=10726035537892829258&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_1o5kuky1m7_e

His biog. of Henderson,
"A biography of Hamish Henderson, well-known as a songwriter, a poet, and a pioneer in the field of Scottish folksong. This book assesses his place in the context of the twentieth century. It is based on interviews with those who knew Henderson both personally and professionally as well as research of published and unpublished sources."
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=V768BQAAQBAJ&dq=hamish+henderson+communist+politics&lr=&source=gbs_navlinks_s

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:34 AM

Biography
Timothy Neat is a writer and film maker who, after sixteen years as a lecturer in the History of Art at Duncan at Jordanstone College of Art in Dundee, gave up teaching (in 1988) to work in the independent sector. Brought up in Cornwall, he has lived all his adult life Scotland - supplementing his literary income with work as a migratory beekeeper, wild mushroom hunter and salmon netter.

About writer's work
all Neat's published books have a documentary base. They deal largely with Scottish subjects -people, poetry, art, music and folk culture and Highland life. His books have a strong visual component (photographs): his films have a strong literary and musical emphasis. He writes poetry, takes photographs, and draws. Close friendships with Hamish Henderson, John Berger, Sorley MacLean and Ian Hamilton Finlay have strongly influenced his ideas and work.
http://www.scottishbooktrust.com/profile-author/18168

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:44 AM

So, has anyone actualy read this book? I take it that we have all read the personal appreciation of Henderson by Dick Gaughan that the village idiot quoted from? The one that says

He was a communist who left the party over Hungary in '56.

Or are we now down to quoting from a book that no-one has read but may or may not say something in support of the ridiculous claim that Henderson was not particularly left wing? Down to misleading snippets from book reviews quickly snatched off the internet? Again...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:50 AM

Ah, but Neats books are available on-line and that not a PROPER bookshop is it.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:51 AM

BTW, Raggy, Boltmaker is Best Bitter, re-branded about three years ago. Remember when we could get Taylors at the Duke of York before you emigrated? My favourite was always RamTam

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:52 AM

perhaps he was a communist like i'm a racist...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:05 AM

Al, get over it. The thread you refer to no longer exists so there is no evidence that you said that east Europeans are criminals and no evidence that anyone called you a called you racist. OK? The only person who ever brings it up is you.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:15 AM

there does some tobe some dispute. Wikipedia calls him a communist in the first sentence.

However he wrote that lament thing for members of the British Army - that's not really much of a communist.

James Connolly wouldn't have done that. Thats a communist!

Lets just agree - he had left wing leanings.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:16 AM

well it sticks in the mind - someone calling you a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:18 AM

and calling someone the village idiot isn't argument. its just abuse and doesn't strengthen your argument in any way.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:29 AM

I'm pretty sure the Duke of York was still a Whitbread pub before I emigrated down south in 1980

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:58 AM

anyway- the point I was making wasn't party political. Cameron is a shit! We're living in an Etonocracy. Applies to the labour Party as well.

They're not one of us. Why are they ruling us?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:59 AM

It was, Raggy - But they were one of the few at the time to have guest ales. Not sure when they started to do it though so it could well have been after your time.

Al, the whole point is that ake said that Hamish Henderson was not particularly left wing. So how can it be agreed? I am pretty sure that there are communist soldiers aplenty so I am not sure how a lament for dead soldiers disqualifies anyone from being a communist either.

As to the racist thing I can assure you that my memory is as good as yours and when someone says that east Europeans have criminal tendencies it sticks in my mind too. Someone did say that and I replied that that was a racist comment. Which it is. If it was not you that said it, then I must have been referring to someone else. And I repeat once again, it is only ever you that brings it up. It would have been long forgotten by now if you had not.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 06:19 AM

""Hamish was never a member of the Communist Party""
"He was a communist who left the party over Hungary in '56. He was offered an OBE and turned it down. He was a Republican who fought regularly and passionately with me over my view of Charles Edward Stewart being as much use to Scotland as a dose of cholera. He was the anti-Nazi who spoke fluent German, loved German culture and raised eyebrows when his "Elegies for the Dead in Cyrenaica" talked of German soldiers with compassion and almost affection."
Dick Gaughan
LINKS IN THE CHAIN
"As Gaughan was a personal friend of Hamish's, I would prefer to accept his views on the matter rather than your hysterical claptrap."
Unquote.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 06:23 AM

well perhaps he was a bit left wing about some things, like most of us are. Communists are a weird lot in England. Ian Campbell was one, I remeber his phone was tapped by by one of the security services, and he sent his kids to YC weekend camps. I think it was a pretty serious business for those who actually were card carrying people in the war - some of them got locked up. Henderson joined the army - so he couldn't have been too deeply in it.

I recommend Edward Upwards book In the Thirties, its very good on that pre Hungary atmosphere of paranoia. Up ward was at cambridge with Isherwood, but was hetero so didn't join the gay party in Berlin. he became a CP mem=ber/ secondary school teacher.

I think you are confusing me with Reynard Heydrich, Dave - he definitely said something like that. I never did. I said i saw a shop, owned by a mate in Boston being robbed by Eastern Europeans. I said, call the police. The shopkeeper said - no point, because of the influs of immigrants here in this town, the situation is out of hand.

I'm not a liar. If bearing witness to an incident makes me a racist in your eyes, so be it.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 06:35 AM

I think the point is Al is that you say "I said i saw a shop, owned by a mate in Boston being robbed by Eastern Europeans. I said, call the police. The shopkeeper said - no point, because of the influs of immigrants here in this town, the situation is out of hand"

How did you KNOW they were Eastern Europeans, they could have been people from Lincoln, Skegness, Boston or even Manchester.

The fact that you PRESUMED they were Eastern European and THUS a problem is what is being argued here.

For my own part I loved the Polish club and the Ukraine club in Huddersfield together with the most generous people I met in them.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 06:37 AM

Neither am I, Al. I don't think Reynard Heydrich has ever posted on Mudcat. You have. If you say you never said it, then so be it but if it was not you that said it, I must have meant that someone else had made a racist comment. The thread has gone. I cannot find out who said it. By the same token you have no evidence of what was said either. Why not just leave it at that?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 06:40 AM

"perhaps he was a communist like i'm a racist... "

One of the best lines you've ever written Big Al :0)
You have written a lot of good stuff, but you could construct a great song around that one line...well done.

The point is, I know that Hamish Henderson never joined the Communist Party, before or after Hungary.
He may have agreed with some Communist policies....we all do that, he certainly supported Scottish Nationalism, he supported our armed forces, unlike some "socialists" here......he was as Gaughan says an independent thinker

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 06:43 AM

Dunno how far you're going back, Raggytash, but I spent many a happy evening, frequently somewhat less than sober, at the Polish clubs in Oldham, Rochdale and especially Bury in my early 20s. In fact, I very nearly married a Polish girl who I met at Bury Polish club. She saw the light just in time...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 06:53 AM

Do we have to suffer these people on EVERY thread?
Keith kindly opened another thread on beer drinking especially for them, which after the nastiness he had been subjected to by them, was far and above the call of duty   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 06:54 AM

"well perhaps he was a bit left wing about some things, l"
Henderson was a Marxist - he actually wrote on Marxism (about Gramschi), he quoted Marx in his writing and in the talks he have - his songs reflected his political position.
Can I remind people of how this bizarre offshoot began
It was suggested that the introduction of politics ruined folk song; it was pointed out that politics has been part of folk song for many centuries, in England and particularly Scotland and Ireland - radio silence on that one.
It was claimed that Hamish Henderson wasn't around in the early days of the folk song revival - it was pointed out just how long he had been around (since the forties, at least) - radio silence on that one.
It was claimed that Henderson was not political, despite his political songs, writing and statements - radio silence on that one.
Now it seems to have retreated to whether he was a Communist Party member or not.
Whether he was or not is immaterial - He as a political songwriter and poet - no argument on that whatever.
He described himself as "a communist" on at least two occasions I heard him speak.
His attitude to the people he collected from and wrote about was that of a left-wing humanist (small H).
Since at least the mid-sixties there have been more communists outside the Communist Party than there are members, and Henderson was one of those.
Can we move on?
Jim Carroll
A summary of Henderson's politics from Timothy Neat's book:
"Henderson emerged as one of the few intellectuals in Scotland able and willing to take on Hugh MacDiarmid: their public confrontations, particularly about the literary value of the folk tradition, were seminal and, in retrospect, these two very different poets can be seen to stand as the twin piers of 'revolutionary thought' in modern Scotland, archetypal representatives of Apollonian and Dionysian energy. They were Robespierre and Danton: MacDiarmid the small, ascetic, atheistic Presbyterian, Henderson the Falstaffian, Episcopal libertarian."

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 07:01 AM

Just for the record, I got to visit Poland several times for work. I found the people there very welcoming and very bright (many of them were fluent in my language, for a start). They were also very open-minded and willing to learn - unlike some of my British colleagues who thought they knew it all but, in fact, they knew very little.