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Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!

DigiTrad:
FAIRYTALE OF NEW YORK


Related threads:
Fairytale of New York (61)
Fairytale of New York (21)
BBC3 The Fairytale of New York (11)
Lyr/Chords Req: Fairytale of New York (9)
Chord Req: Fairytale of New York (14)


John MacKenzie 19 Dec 07 - 07:38 AM
GUEST,clockwatcher 19 Dec 07 - 07:44 AM
Dave Sutherland 19 Dec 07 - 07:51 AM
John MacKenzie 19 Dec 07 - 07:52 AM
NormanD 19 Dec 07 - 09:19 AM
John MacKenzie 19 Dec 07 - 09:20 AM
Leadfingers 19 Dec 07 - 09:24 AM
The Borchester Echo 19 Dec 07 - 09:27 AM
The Borchester Echo 19 Dec 07 - 09:29 AM
John MacKenzie 19 Dec 07 - 09:32 AM
GUEST,machree01 19 Dec 07 - 09:43 AM
The Borchester Echo 19 Dec 07 - 09:48 AM
John MacKenzie 19 Dec 07 - 09:57 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Dec 07 - 09:58 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Dec 07 - 10:00 AM
Emma B 19 Dec 07 - 10:11 AM
Jean(eanjay) 19 Dec 07 - 10:19 AM
The Borchester Echo 19 Dec 07 - 10:24 AM
Rog Peek 19 Dec 07 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 19 Dec 07 - 10:35 AM
Brakn 19 Dec 07 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,Barnacle (at work) 19 Dec 07 - 11:22 AM
NormanD 19 Dec 07 - 11:34 AM
John MacKenzie 19 Dec 07 - 11:40 AM
Rusty Dobro 19 Dec 07 - 12:06 PM
Homerssohn 19 Dec 07 - 12:17 PM
NormanD 19 Dec 07 - 12:21 PM
GUEST,sparticus 19 Dec 07 - 12:28 PM
GUEST 20 Dec 07 - 01:39 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice 20 Dec 07 - 03:32 PM
goatfell 20 Dec 07 - 06:57 PM
Brendy 20 Dec 07 - 07:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Dec 07 - 07:18 PM
GUEST 21 Dec 07 - 07:25 AM
Lowden Jameswright 21 Dec 07 - 08:16 AM
GUEST 25 Dec 09 - 09:02 AM
Dave Roberts 25 Dec 09 - 09:12 AM
Dave Roberts 25 Dec 09 - 09:13 AM
Uncle_DaveO 25 Dec 09 - 09:55 AM
Helen 15 Dec 18 - 02:21 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Dec 18 - 02:23 PM
Helen 15 Dec 18 - 05:11 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Dec 18 - 05:21 PM
meself 15 Dec 18 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,ripov 15 Dec 18 - 06:25 PM
punkfolkrocker 15 Dec 18 - 06:33 PM
rich-joy 15 Dec 18 - 06:40 PM
GUEST 15 Dec 18 - 06:43 PM
rich-joy 15 Dec 18 - 06:54 PM
Big Al Whittle 15 Dec 18 - 07:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:38 AM

The Mick reference I mistakenly attributed to this song, is in Missing You by Christy Moore, a song with similar sentiments.
Giok


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,clockwatcher
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:44 AM

... and if we're going to reclaim the word 'faggot' (a bundle of firewood or a tasty meat dish), then perhaps we can reclaim 'gay' as well. Most poofters seem to be as gloomy as the rest of us.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:51 AM

When I was a kid in the North East of England and I, or someone else, was referred to as a "faggot" it meant that they were a source of annoyance or irritation. It was many years later that I learned that in USA it was a term used to describe a homosexual.
Anyway I think that it is a great song (for life not just for Christmas)and Christy Moore just edges it over the Pogues and Kirsty.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 07:52 AM

roflmao


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: NormanD
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:19 AM

GUEST: clockwatcher

"Most poofters seem to be as gloomy as the rest of us"

Cut it out, whoever you are. You can make the joke without using another term of abuse. Or maybe using the term of abuse was the point of your post.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:20 AM

Aw come on pal, develop a sense of humour for fucks sake.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:24 AM

So I said to ths girl in the pub -"I suppose a Savoury duck's out of the qestion?"


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:27 AM

Homophobia is far from funny. It's ignorant, dangerous and distasteful.
As is slinging abuse at Shane MacGowan, who, however you might consider his behaviour, is undeniably a highly talented songwriter whose work (+ Jem Finer in this case) was unfairly judged by a radio station that has redeemed itself.
End of drama.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:29 AM

. . . and idiotic sniggering of an apparently heterosexual nature is equally inappropriate and distasteful.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:32 AM

I have gay friends who would piss themselves laughing at that silly wee joke.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,machree01
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:43 AM

Diane here's Christy Moore's Version.
         http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GLqGE3C0yTQ


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:48 AM

Yes, thank you. I have heard it. In fact I have it on CD.
Christy Moore has covered a number of Shane MacGowan's songs.
The point being?
I am far more interested in getting outta here, from the cesspit of puerile, inane blokishness to which this thread has deteriorated,


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:57 AM

Byeeeeeeeeeeee


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 09:58 AM

savoury duck....that's a Lancashire thing, isn't it? sort of cross between a haselet and a faggot. I haven't heard about them for ages, much less seen one.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:00 AM

By the way, isn't that the Penguin Cafe Orchestra on the MFI advert?


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:11 AM

Just listened to the Christy Moore version - he's a fine singer but it's the interaction between Kirsty McColl and Shane McGowan that really makes the Pogues version number 1 for me!

btw - does it really say Fairytale of New York - The POPES & Shane McGowan Dublin, 06 on youtube??? LOL!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:19 AM

Thanks for the youtube link. I haven't heard Christy Moore sing that song before so I've really enjoyed listening to it - just wish his mouth was moving in time to the words on that video!

I'm a Shane MacGowan fan, a Christy Moore fan and a Kirsty MacColl fan so I like both versions but Shane MacGowan wins!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:24 AM

Here's Shane + Popes + his mum.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Rog Peek
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:34 AM

In my opinion, Shane McGowan has written some great songs, of which this is one. I've not heard it done better than the version which features himself and Kirsty McColl, after all, if you were looking for someone to sing the part of a drunk who found himself in the drunk tank on Christmas Eve, then he would surely be your man.

Rog


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:35 AM

'weelittledrummer' - that's what I thought.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Brakn
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 10:55 AM

re MFI

Previous thread.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,Barnacle (at work)
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 11:22 AM

It's one of my favourite all-time songs. Not just for Christmas. Shane McGowan has written some fine words and interprets them well. I do not think that any of the words in "Fairytale" were done for cheap effect, they make a strong statement and, BBC or not, my son and I will still sing it together when we are out shopping in the festive season. It does tend to keep the crowds away!!! Anyway, even the BEEB has seen the folly of its actions. Good sense prevails!!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: NormanD
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 11:34 AM

Someone above told me:
"Aw come on pal, develop a sense of humour for fucks sake."

Like I've never had that demand aggressively thrust at me before.

Since writing my post above I'm pleased to tell you that I have developed a sense of humour. And you know what? That joke's still not funny.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 11:40 AM

I don't find The Office funny either.
Perhaps that's because it makes jokes about, and lampoons a minority.
i.e. The socially inept.
This of course proves nothing, except that different people laugh at different things, with some people even having the facility to be able to laugh at themselves.
Not as rare as it would at first appear.
G


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:06 PM

It was 'I'm Sorry, I'll Read That Again' which had fun in the '60's beeping out the lyrics of popular songs. I can remember 'It's Not Unusual' (to have 'beep' with anyone), and 'Jake The Peg (with the extra 'beep').

Like so much in that programme, (and indeed like me), it was puerile, potentially offensive and has not stood the test of time, but you had to be there. I can remember an entire pub bar emptying for half an hour so that people could sit in their cars and listen to it. I don't think the landlord ever quite realised what was going on.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Homerssohn
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:17 PM

To paraphrase Mr Kahn:

I ain't afraid of the swearing
I ain't afraid of the banter
I ain't afraid of the teasing
I'm afraid of the self-righteous protecting my rights.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: NormanD
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:21 PM

'Giok' - it's not about this or that particular joke, it's about using the word "poofter" to get a laugh, or calling somebody that. That is just plain insulting.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,sparticus
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:28 PM

At least it keeps Shane in beer money for the festive season. Wish he'd spend some of it at the dentist. The Tooth Fairy Tale of New York could well be a follow up.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 01:39 PM

MTV UK's music channels VH1 UK and TMF UK have also censored the video for 2007, removing not only the words "faggot" and "slut", but also "arse", despite non-MTV owned music channels playing it uncut. (excluding the BBC, of course!!)


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 03:32 PM

I'm wondering what it the BBC has against a bundle of twigs, which is, after all, what a faggot is.... :-P


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: goatfell
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 06:57 PM

where I come from a FAGGOT is some meat dish, like meatballs. So why is that offencive to Gays, I mean this is Britian and NOT AMERICA.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 07:10 PM

The 'character' being called a faggot 'seems' openly hetro, IMO.
... unless there is some subtext we're missing out on....

It was heading for number 1 in the download charts, last time I looked

B.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 07:18 PM

No point in getting worked up about it. I think this is pretty obviously a publicity stunt by BBC 1, to remind people it exists.

And I think the truth of that has been demonstrated by what happened next: BBC backs down on plan to censor 'Fairytale of New York'


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 07 - 07:25 AM

Just caught up, apparently the ban has been lifted, according to the BBC website.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 21 Dec 07 - 08:16 AM

.... good news; I'll be able to sing one of my favourite songs again, without leaving out the line:

"See the faggot with the earing and the makeup, yea buddy that's his own hair"

... save us from the censorship police


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 09:02 AM

I always thought it was because the BBC didn't want to upset its board of directors :-)


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 09:12 AM

I wonder if 'Guest'(9.02am) has taken in the original date of this post?
But I wonder even more why I am looking at the Mudcat Forum at 2pm on Christmas Day.
Any road up (or 'anyway' for our American readers) Fairy Tale Of New York has been played uncensored on the BBC and everywhere else for many years now, to the great enjoymanet of all.
And long may it be so.
Merry Christmas to all!


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 09:13 AM

Enjoymanet = enjoyment
- Typo Police.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Dec 09 - 09:55 AM

Are they going to bleep out "fairy" also?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Helen
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 02:21 PM

Worth a read - an opinion piece:

'F' word in Fairtytale of New York

"The Christmas party pooper has, over the centuries, taken different guises.

"The classic Dickensian scrooge wore an imposing hat and a grimace and said "bah humbug".

"The grinch is a disgruntled green creature written by Dr Seuss who steals Christmas.

"But the modern day scourge of Christmas has no candle, imposing hat or green fur.

"Instead, they have a well-hammered keyboard in front of them, wear the most po of all po-faces and say:

    'Stop playing the Fairytale of New York because it offends me and my LGBTQI+ and non-binary friends'."


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 02:23 PM

F word... "Fairy"...???


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Helen
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 05:11 PM

F word as in, 'If you see Kay (eff-u-cee-kay), tell her I want to see her'.

Let me tell you, straight up (no pun intended) that The Pogues are one of my all-time fave bands. I play their CD's over and over and over. Love 'em. I never thought that the use of the word "faggot" in the context of the song was intended as a gay slur, but just another name to throw at each other. I guess I should have thought of it being the gay equivalent of the n-word, but the context of the song and the fact that the only time I have ever heard men use the word "faggot" has been some of my gay friends talking about themselves or referring to their close friends, i.e. being funny, means that I tend not to see the word as a hate word.

I know it can be used by homophobic rednecks, but in fact, I don't remember anyone flinging it around as an insult in my social world.

I remember when I was a lot younger being really upset when a gay friend first told me why the word is used - witch burning context, using gay people as fuel for the fire.

But back to the article I linked to, I think it was the swear word firstly, and then the word "faggot" which the journalist was writing an opinion about.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 05:21 PM

I'm glad I was a schoolboy in the 1960s to 70s...
I got to use a lot of swear words and insults now on the official banned list...

.. of course there are two swear words considered so bad back in my day,
which have become so watered down by over use,
I can now say one of them in front of my old mum...


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: meself
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 05:50 PM

"I don't remember anyone flinging it around as an insult in my social world."

I doubt there is a male born in the 20th Century in the English-speaking world who didn't hear it flung around as an insult - but it is one of those words that those of us with any pretense of respectability didn't use in front of females.

I've never looked into it, but that story of the witch-burning, etc., sounds like folk-etymology to me .....


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 06:25 PM

As peoples ways change, past behaviours are forgotten. To throw a bit of light on usage in earlier times, see "fagging" in wikipaedia. Strange that no-one has mentioned this (in my youth) normal usage of the word. Mebbe I'm just tooo old?

Whether the homosexual connotations are earlier must be a matter of conjecture.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 06:33 PM

All I can say, is me and my mates in provincial South West England all boys grammar school
shunned American imperialist swear-words on principle...
I still do...

We had our own perfectly good [though now rightly unacceptable] terms for each other such as "bender" and "bumboy".
Which I'd argue were relatively comical,
and lacked the depth of sheer homophobic hatred embedded in USA use of "faggot"...???

Besides which a faggot is a popular savoury meal round these west country parts...

As I recall, actual homosexual activity was as far as we could see completely unknown amongst our school community
We assumed that was more prevalent in exclusive posh public schools...

By the mid 70s, when we did actually have gay friends in bands and youth theatre,
no big deal - we came of age via glam rock and popular youth media depictions
of fashionable androginy and bisexuality...

Us straight and gay college mates camping it up together in small villages
just to wind up the tory young farmers was great sport...

...until they started getting violent....


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 06:40 PM

I was glad that Dave Sunderland pointed out in his 19Dec07 post : "When I was a kid in the North East of England and I, or someone else, was referred to as a "faggot" it meant that they were a source of annoyance or irritation. It was many years later that I learned that in USA it was a term used to describe a homosexual...."

My late Mother, well educated and well spoken, and born 1923 in West Aussie, occasionally used the expression when one of her cats was being exceedingly frustratingly annoying!! She had nothing against gay folks, (.... but the American culture that was taking us over post WWII, was quite another thing!)

So cultural context and country of origin is everything, eh.

Merry Bah-Humbug!!

Cheers, R-J
Down Under


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 06:43 PM

I think that in my childhood a (old) "faggot" would have been an unkindly term for an old woman. I'm not sure if it was used as a more general insult.

I didn't become aware of the homosexual meaning until I started on the Internet. I commented somewhere that "I could do with a fag". UK meaning in that context would be a cigarette but some Americans had a different interpretation.


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 06:54 PM

Yes, down under in Aust, "fags" were either cigarettes, or, taken from books re English public schoolboys : were lower form slaves to the upper form elite.

R-J


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Subject: RE: Fairytale of New York censored by Beeb!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 18 - 07:09 PM

Yes and when you say you're on twenty fags a day, they look at you with disbelief...


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