BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:41 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King's primary identity and role in the human drama was and is as our era's greatest apostle of nonviolence. That he was African-American, and therefore a member of a group sorely in need of the kind of justice that can only be won by steadfast and militant nonviolent action, was important but ultimately secondary.

There is a trend these days to forget Dr. King's principles and to celebrate his birthday as a "blacks-only" event. This is tragic and absolutely contrary to the man's message. It's wrong for white folks to dismiss MLK Day and Black History Month as something that concerns "those other people," and it is just as wrong for black folks to use Dr. King's memory to celebrate all things African-American, including the worst and most destructive aspects of thug culture, and to exclude people of any other race from inclusion.

Azizi, I usually agree with you and generally sympathize, but to the extent that you're telling us that white folks have no business singing spirituals or otherwise honoring and enjoying African-American culture, you're not only wrong, you're in direct conflict with the principles and the dreams of the man we honor today.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:26 PM

The most difficult part about reading and rereading Dr. King's words is, as Dennis eluded to, how things haven't really changed that much...

We are mired in war, in discrimination, in hatred, in intolerance, in ignorance and in the same flawed political system that just is up dealing with probelms in a modern world...

Also in the Playboy interview King expressed a belief that by the turn of the century the US would have moved to an intergrated society... Reality is that we have not done that... We rae still very much segregated... There is more public school defacto segrgation now than there was 20 years ago... We do not worship together... We are not an intergrated society at all and the folks who want to keep it that way have the power to do just that...

It is my ***belief*** that Dr. King would have gotten US there... Okay, there would still be pockets of holdouts but as they died off they wouldn't be replaced... That is my belief...

More quotes later...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 05:50 PM

Dennis Kucinich honored Martin Luther King today with this message:

The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
the legacy remembered,
the message that should not be forgotten

The homage that Americans pay today to the inspiring life and lasting legacy of Dr. King is a fitting tribute to this leader who spoke so eloquently of peace, of social justice, and of equal rights under the law and under the moral covenant that established and guides this great nation. But, as we survey the grim realities of today, across this country and around the world, that rightful homage also has the somber ring of a faint and distant eulogy for a man and a message from another time.

That other time that we remember and honor was then. But, more than ever, it is also now.

In his speech at Riverside Church in New York City, on April 4, 1967, Dr. King spoke of one war that was destroying the aspirations of the people of two nations - the people of the United States and the people of Vietnam.

The Vietnam War resulted in the deaths of 4 million Vietnamese civilians in a nation of about 40 million - 10% of the total population of Vietnam. Americans lost 58,202 soldiers in that war. And in hard, cold numbers, the Vietnam War cost the United States the equivalent of $662 billion in today's dollars.

So far, today, this no-end-in-sight war against Iraq has resulted in the deaths of more than 1 million innocent Iraqis in a nation of 25 million. Four thousand of our best and bravest have died, and nearly 29,000 have been wounded. In hard, cold numbers, the Iraq War will cost the United States more than $2 trillion.

What would Dr. King say today? What would his message be to the President, to the U.S. Congress, and to the American people? It would be, I deeply believe, the same as it was more than 30 years ago: Iraq is a war that is destroying the aspirations of the people of two nations - the people of the United States and the people of Iraq.

And, it was only two years ago that the leadership of the Democratic Party, without invoking Dr. King but aligning itself with the powerful principles that he espoused, promised an end to the abuse of political power and an end to the war that was devastating the people of two nations. And Americans, believing that promise that we would "be free at last" from the policies that morally and economically enslaved this nation and unrepentantly took control of another, elected a new Democratic leadership in the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate.

Tragically, in the two years since, nothing has changed. The policies of this President persist and prevail. The Congress yields and subjugates itself time and time again. And the powerful, righteous, and universal message of Dr. King has been forgotten.

Dr. King's concluding remarks in his Riverside Church speech called for an end to the disintegration of humanity brought about by war: "Somehow this madness must end," he implored.

It is not in our power to bring Dr. King back, but it is within our power to resurrect his spirit in our daily lives and in the policies of the government that we elect to represent and lead us. He demonstrated throughout his entire life that social and economic justice are achieved not through compromising what we believe, but rather, committing to what we believe – whatever the odds.

In this crucial year for the future of our nation and the future of our world, today is the day to remember Dr. King's words, embrace his spirit, and fortify ourselves with the message that he left for us.

It is time, once again, to ask what we can do to forge ahead – in our votes, in our support, and in everything we do -- to reach that place where his words, his strength, and his optimism become more than a legacy. They become the policy and mission of this nation: "Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last."


Dennis Kucinich

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 05:30 PM

Dani, of course I believe that everyone can sing any song including what used to be called Negro spirituals and which I now call African American spirituals.

Bobert, thanks for sharing Dr. King's writings and interviews.
Fwiw, I wasn't familiar with several of the writings that you featured.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:53 PM

"Playboy" Magazine, January 1965

Playboy:

"We Shall Overcome" has become the uofficial song and slogan of ther civil rights movement. Do You consider such inspirational anthems important to morale?"

King:

"In a s ense, songs are the soul of a movement. Consider in World War II, "Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition" and in World War I, 'Over There' and 'Tipperary', and during the Civil War, 'Battle Hymn of the Republic' and 'John Brown's Body'. The Negro song anthology would include sorrow songs, shouts for joy, battle hymns, anthems. Since slavery, the Negro has sung throughout his stuggle in America. 'Steal Away' and 'Go Down, Moses' were the songs of faith and inspiration which were sung on plantations. For the same reasons the slave sang, Negroes today sing freedom songs, for we, too, are in bomdage. We sing our determination that 'We shall overcome, black and white together, we shall overcome some day.' I should also mention a song parody that I enjoyed very much which the Negroes sang during our campaign in Albany, Georgia. It goes 'I'm comin', I'm comin'/And my head ain't bendin' low/I'm walkin' tall, I'm talking strong/I'm America's new Black Joe.'"

*******************************************************************

There is another reference to music in Dr, King's book entitled "Why We Can't Wait" which I will share later...

Hope folks are enjoying reading some of Dr. King's writings and interviews I'm trying real hard not to typo them into my usual so it is a tad tedius but, hey... I'm sure Dr. King would be happy to know that this ol' hillbilly loves him eough to "struggle" thru real typing and proofreading...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Janie
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 01:57 PM

Here I come with my favorite word again.   Dialectic.

Dialectic -In classical philosophy, dialectic (Greek: διαλεκτική) is an exchange of propositions (theses) and counter-propositions (antitheses) resulting in a synthesis of the opposing assertions, or at least a qualitative transformation in the direction of the dialogue. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 01:39 PM

And of course, it's easy beans to say it was KING who did it all, right? Ignore those nasty 60s SNCC radicals Bobert claims 60s were violent. This is KING'S day, and KING'S civil rights movement, and we don't talk about anything or anybody else, because that makes us all too uncomfortable.

BTW, it's his birth we celebrate on MLK Day, not his death. But you'd never know it from the contemporary "celebrations". At our school, we had an African drummer beating out a martial beat for the children to march to the cafeteria in silence "in honor of Dr. King". This is what King was about? Militaristic "silent marches" to a martial drumbeat?

What the hell happened to his stand against US militarism, hmmm?

This thread, just like the US celebrations taking place all over the country today, are doing a tremendous disservice to the future generations in teaching them a sanitized version of the struggle for black liberation in the US. That movement hardly began and ended with King in the 50s with desegregation laws. As Peace points out, it ain't exactly been love, peace, and equality ever since.

Anyone hear any discussions of the anti-war King today in their "rememberances"? I doubt it very much. Because the poor and working poor black community is very heavily invested in the volunteer military, and refuses to challenge the warrior hierarchy of the old warriors.

Deleting my posts is an extremely childish exercise in bullying, BTW. But hey--if that's how you want to play...

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 01:04 PM

Forty years ago King was murdered. Forty years later the rights he stood up for, the rights he took the bullet for have yet to descend to the Black people of the USA. I say that not to slur people who gave of their time or money to take King's dream a step closer to reality, but rather to say it is anything BUT the reality for Blacks in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:52 PM

Thanks for the discussion, people. I really appreciate your candor, Azizi. Keep it up.

I am fresh back from the march, and post-march church celebration.

I have to report that the crowd was far smaller, and the singing thin, sad and unmoving compared with previous years. Why, I wonder? Despite my frustration, you will be glad to know that I didn't swipe the bullhorn.... though I dearly longed to ; )

At church, there were plenty of good thoughts, prayers and speeches, but very many mixed messages. Lots of talk about unity, forces for change, working together, etc, but it was still a celebration by, of, and for a small handful of black churches. They referred to the lovely, spirited children's choir as the 'community choir', and that bothered me a little bit since only a few churches were represented. Guess different people have different ideas of what makes up a community.

Speeches that won the oratorical contest (that only those few churches knew about) were read; amazing, wise thoughts from brave, smart children. Again, from only a few churches. I've heard white children at these occasions wonder how their classmates knew of these contests, but they didn't.

And while some speakers made me feel very welcome as just one in the number, without picking out or finger pointing, there were just so many references to this banquet, that meeting, such-and-such a committee, where "you all are needed and welcome", it's clear to me that the rest of the community is NOT welcome to plan for and participate meaningfully in the event. Which is all fine and good, unless you are CALLING it a community celebration, open to all.

So, it is a little painful, but whatever... I go anyway, because I believe a) my children should know the racial and social history of their hometown, even as it plays out today among their and my peers, b) people should march to commemorate the sacrifices of the civil rights movement, and c) King's legacy should be remembered, taught, lived out.

And, it is absolutely important to know the provenance of a song or style of music. Azizi is right, but I can't imagine she means the rest of us shouldn't sing them. Spirituals are one of the most important kinds of music in my life. Plus I can and will sing "Lift Every Voice and Sing" with the best of them, and wish the kids (both black and white) I saw out there today would, too.

Dani (an im-patient woman)

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:36 PM

Further, re: ... I suppose that means that .... all folk music composed by Europeans aren't really European music since they can speak to any and all folks regardless of their race/ethnicity...

I would suspect that most Mudcatters would agree with that but that most averge people on the planet who may not be as culturally "aware" as your average Mudcatter may be stuck in a perceptopn where they have not even thought about it at all.

Here at Mudcat I suspect we're a group of people who are a little bit better informed, and with a little more multicultural experience both in general socially, and in their relationships.

Beyond that, there is the confusion in the way one might speak of "origins" in the same way one might speak of "characteristics" of the music, complicated by the fact that most music categories are and have been the artificial constructs of TODAY'S commercial enterprises. "Country" artists, for example, decry being "pigeon-holed" into that category, and then market the heck out of themselves IN that category, and it may have nothing to do with origin. Or someone might claim "country" as a point of cultural origin while creating a form of music that sounds nothing like the rest of "country" music as so labeled by the record industry.

Language-- complicated stuff.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:28 PM

Then why is the standard definition for classical music only that music that was composed by European people?

It refers to a long "tradition" (history) of socially- and commercially-controlled music that originated in European societies.

Rich folks (such as royalty) sponsored starving artists to compose music for them, at their behest, honoring their families and interests in a very inbred society of European people. Art, music-- these were the property (in that time) of the upper class, not the "people."

FOLK music was the music of the people.... CLASSICAL music was the upper-crust's property.

See?

It had nothing to do at that time with color, and everything to do with social class.

There were significant MUSIC differences as well, but as for why "classical" = "European"-- because that's what the Europeans in power at that time decided to call "THEIR" music.

The term stuck.

It refers not to Europeans in general but to Europeans supported by rich Europeans.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:07 PM

Yet, none of you gives a shit about the hypocrisy exhibited here (nor the delicious irony) of holding a gung ho conversation about King, while your Mudcat Masters censor all opinions that dissent from the conventional Mudcat view?

First they censored Gargoyle...

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:05 PM

I'll take what you guys and gals have said under consideration.

But it seems to me that many White folks don't mind saying that the parts of Black cultures or other people of color's cultures that they {White people] like belong to the world, but European cultures are generally referred to by European ethnicities or/and nationalities.

Given what folks are saying here, I suppose that means that all "classical music" that was/is composed by Europeans and all folk music composed by Europeans aren't really European music since they can speak to any and all folks regardless of their race/ethnicity...

Then why is the standard definition for classical music only that music that was composed by European people?

I'm asking not to be argumentative but to "hear" and try to understand your positions on this.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:55 AM

I agree in part with GUEST,GUEST.

However, let's not neglect the courage of King and so many others who put it on the line back when there was a line which to cross meant a severe beating at least. Telling kids who know where they are in the economics of life that they are free is quaint crap meant to assuage consciences that likely need it. King was an outstanding individual and a very brave one, too. He knew the dangers he faced and he faced them anyway. For that history owes him his day.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:49 AM

I thought this was of interest. There are also some interesting links at the bottom of THIS PAGE:

'I have a genetic dream'
Posted: Monday, January 21, 2008 12:07 AM by Alan Boyle

It's been almost 40 years since a great man lost his life, essentially because he had a dream of racial equality. As America celebrates Martin Luther King Jr. Day today, there's been a resurgence of interest in the issue of race - not only because a black man is a serious contender for the presidency, but also because scientific trends have raised new questions about the concept of race.

On one side, we have DNA pioneer James Watson's comments about potential correlations between ethnicity and intelligence - comments that sparked the biggest controversy in Watson's controversial career. On the other side, we have genomics maverick J. Craig Venter's observation that "race is a social concept, not a scientific one."

This year's HapMap genetic survey adds to the picture's complexity, noting that there are links between geographical origins and genetic traits, ranging from your vulnerability to diseases to your vulnerability to underarm wetness. Just as we're getting over the idea that your skin color defines who you are, researchers are pointing out that genetics can play a role in defining what you will become.

When it comes to higher functions, however, the nature-vs.-nurture argument comes to the fore. If one geographical population behaves differently from another, is it really a case of genetic differences, or rather of cultural differences? New research indicates that the pull of cultural values can be surprisingly powerful, potentially leading to changes in the wiring of the brain.

Such findings reinforce what Martin Luther King (and J. Craig Venter) said: Much of what we think of as racial differences have to do with social differences instead. When populations are isolated, genetic variations and environmental factors tend to take those populations down separate paths. That's how some of our ancestors happened to end up lighter-skinned than others.

Today, we're dealing with the multimillion-year hangover from those differences, as well as our hard-wiring for "us vs. them" tribalism. I have a dream that a deeper understanding of genetics will finally help us bridge the gap.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:44 AM

Well, I'm sticking by my guns and saying I find the holiday as meaningful as President's Day. That is to say, a superficial holiday to teach an official hagiography to school children and give public employees another day off.

The canonization of King is sad, because it takes away the humanity of what everyone endured to bring about change. The big defenders of the man and the superficial holiday these days are very conservative politically, and are heavily invested in maintaining their delusions that the country's upcoming generations are the least bit interested in "the message". They aren't, because it has precious little to do with their personal lived experiences.

I work in the most segregated urban elementary school in our city--more segregated than even the whitest schools--just over 80% African American students, and 92% of the student population receives free lunches. So I'm in one of three poorest and blackest schools in the district. We had the obligatory assembly on Friday, and the kids did nothing but complain about being forced to do the assembly AGAIN, screwed off, and generally paid no attention to what the nice white lady on the stage was admonishing them to think.

The same social disease exists around here with the thought police (nice try blocking my access again kiddies, but by now you should know if I want to get back in, I will) and censors. It's quite clear there is no room for any posters to speak an opinion that is widespread among young African American (except in the company of their elders of course--gotta maintain the "we love the church" facade, and that's a boundary they rarely cross. But they are sick to death of Martin and Rosa being shoved down their throat, and being guilt tripped by their elders about "the sacrifices made and the people who died".

Nice, well intentioned white AND black teachers, all. But they moved out of this hood a long time ago, and keep the school segregated as a magnet to "keep it real". Except the hood is now 63% Asian, and 20% Latino.

So shoot me for saying the day has become just another meaningless holiday. And that MLK is fairly far down on the list of African American male leaders of the civil rights and black liberation movements I most admire.

But there it is.

Mudcat Censors, please deny my access now, delete the posts from me, etc. so these sheep--oops--I mean flock, won't be offended.

Hey--worshipping at the feet of the MLK legacy is a damn sight easier than learning the history, right?

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:32 AM

I posted about my first-hand experience and was confirming what others have already posted about homophobia. Certainly, we encountered, and still do, homophobia across the board.

Jeri, well said.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:16 AM

Well, Dr. King spoke of songs in an interview in "Playboy" magazine... I've got the transcript (no not the danged magazine) somewhere and unless someone finds it before I get back here will share it with you all later...

Gotta go to work now... Yeah, no rest for the weary... Even on Dr. King's birthday...

He also wrote about them in one of his books... I think I can find that, too...

But, don't let me forget to share what he wrote about "hippies"... I think he was somewhat befuddled by them but, hey???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:09 AM

You're welcome, Susan.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:06 AM

Carol, thanks for the sermon. Some of us have heard it before; some of us practice and preach it ourselves; but thanks.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:58 AM

People whose experience of life arises predominantly from 'White culture' would go a long way toward helping to heal the wounds between Blacks and Whites if they would understand and be mindful of Azizi's 21 Jan 08 - 08:49 AM post. Our neighborhood, prior to our moving here, had had only one other White family in its entire history, in the deep south, in a city where the only violent political coup (that overturned a democratically elected, Black government) in the history of the United States occurred.

Some wounds take a long time to heal. The wounds are real and they are legitimate. They do get reopened from time to time, because racism is still very much a fact of life for many Blacks and other people of color. We see it every day in the way our neighborhood is treated by the local government as compared to the white neighborhoods.

We have been welcomed very warmly into our neighborhood, and we are welcome to participate in and celebrate all of the important events that happen here. But we are always mindful that we are, like it or not, representatives of a people who have done a great wrong to those among whom we live, and we need to be understanding of the legitimate concerns that our neighbors have about how they are treated by people like us in the larger world.

If you approach events like MLK day with humility, kindness, and understanding, even in the face of what look like perceived slights, you will go a long way toward helping to heal those wounds.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:55 AM

To clarify, spirituals not only speak to everyone (they sure do, looking forward in time from their creation), but I meant that they are part of everyone's history (taking the back-looking, historical view).

Whether any individual's or group's part in creating or perpetuating them was shameful, proud, or ignorant-- we ALL carry that heritage, just as we do MLK Day and all it represents. We share the heritage, and we share the opportunity to do something with it NOW.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:51 AM

Unfortunately for you, Azizi, that sharing thing is what happens when things work right. There used to be a whole lot of things that we [White European Americans] used to own that now belong to everybody.

Heritage is one thing, but if it's about ownership for you, you're going to be frustrated. Spirituals belong to anyone who sings them. I really hate racism, and that 'ours/yours' attitude IS racism. There are people in this world who have a vested interest in keeping old wrongs alive and old wounds open and bleeding. It doesn't matter if you're WILLING to share - it's going to happen.

In a perfect world, people will share songs without caring what color their writers were. People will remember where the songs came from and honor that, but realize that origins and ownership aren't the same and not be afraid of stepping on someone's toes.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:50 AM

Azizi, you know by now that I hold you in the very highest esteem. Gotta take issue with you on that last one though. While it is true that the songs came out of your tradition of struggle, faith and hope...and I certainly agree that the style of singing these songs is firmly rooted in your cultural background....these songs are timeless because they speak to everyone. Whether we are speaking of the old spirituals, or the new songs about the struggles, what has always touched me about them....and inspires me to be always on the trail towards being a more complete human being ... is that these people, so full of reasons not to be grace filled, are grace filled nonetheless. That is, in my mind, what makes these sung prayers universal, and a lesson that The Greatest One gives us all in the beauty of the words and singing. It is the same in all songs of struggle, no matter the culture. Were I you I would take great pride in the fact that these songs are of my people, but they belong to the ages, and if there is wisdom in this world, they will be claimed by all.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:37 AM

Susan, re your last post, though I'm willing to share, I do believe that spirituals composed by enslaved African Americans are more ours [African Americans]than anybody elses.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:34 AM

LIke the spirituals, MLK Day is everyone's heritage and doesn't belong to any one person, group, or time period. It's not the ONLY thing in our heritage, but it is part of it for all of us.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:23 AM

I mentioned that Dr. King had some things to say that coule very much apply to the current administration:

From his 1967 book entitled "Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community":

"The large power blocks talk passionately of pirsuing peace while expanding defense budgets that allready bulge, enlarging allready awesome armies and devising ever more devestating weapons. Call the roll of those who sing the glad tidings of peace and one's ears will be surprised by the responding sounds. The heads of all nations issue clarion call for peace, yet the come to the peace accompanied by bands of brigands each bearing unsheathed swords.

The stages of history are replete with chants and choruses of the conquerors of old who came killing in pursuit of peace. Alexander, Genghis Khan, Julius Ceasar, Charlemagne and Napolean were akin in seeking a peaceful world order, a world fashioned after their selfish conceptions of an ideal existence. Each sought a world at peace which would personify his egotitic dreams. Even within the life span of most of us, another megalomaniac strode across the world satge. He sent his blitzk-rieg-bent legions blazing across Europe, bringing havoc and holocaust in his wake. There is grave irony in the fact that Hitler coule come forth, following nakedly agressive expansionist theories, and do it all in the name of peace."

*****************************************************************

When I reread these words its not a far stretch to insert "George Bush" right between "Genghis Khan" and "Julius Ceasar"...

Next: Dr. King's thoughts on "hippies"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:59 AM

I posted this before reading Dani's last post.

Right on, Dani!

And yes, I have noticed how the google ads have referred to Martin Luther King, Jr. However, your references to guests misbehaving at parties may have changed the dynamic for a bit as the links to google ads down the bottom of this message box that I see now refer to Alcohol Rehab Treatment {Inpatient Alcohol Treatment Program 19 Years Experience in Recovery} and Salt Lake Alcoholics {Substance abuse addict? Get help. Treatment in a caring environment}.

By the way, I had to read that "Inpatient alcohol treatment program" a couple of times before I "got" that the word was in patient and not impatient.

:o)

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:49 AM

katlaughing and others,

I'm not trying to excuse the fact that in the past and probably in the present there are times that some Black people weren't {aren't} open and welcoming to the attendance and participation of White people at our [Black people's] commemorative and/or celebratory events.* However, it should be noted that there may have been {may be} other conscious/unconcious reasons for this fact besides straight up racism. Among those reasons may be:

1. Direct knowledge of and/or indirect knowledge of White people co-opting Black culture [sayings, songs, dances, fashion styles, customs etc] and not giving Black people the credit for these indices of Black culture. Given this historical and present day fact, some Black people may take umbrage at the fact that White people [in my opinion, correctly] consider the legacy of Martin Luther King, Jr to be theirs just as much as it is Black peoples.

2. Some African Americans were/are uncomfortable around White people and do not feel that they can not be {act like} themselves if there are White people in attendance. Therefore, these African Americans felt/feel that having White people in attendance "spoils" the event [i.e. makes it less authentic because they are unable to act authentically]

3. Point #1 is reinforced by direct experience or second/third hand experiences with some White people who expected/expect to be treated better than a "regular" person in attendance at these events {ie they expected/expect to be lauded over, given the best seats up front, publicly recognized by the pastor, or master of ceremony etc}   

4. Black people have {have had} direct experience or know of other Black people who have experienced {experience} White people who are {were} patronizing toward them. This speaks to the overarching, deep rootedness of racial prejudice in America, because the White person may not actually have been patronising, and/or the White person may not have consciously known that they were being patronising.

5. Related to point #4, in their attempts to prove that they aren't prejudiced, some White people act/have acted inauthentically toward Black people. For example they are/were overly friendly and praising toward Black people, or tried to act too hip, or what they think is "Black" {which is a racist statement in and of itself}. This is related to the "Some of my best friends are Black" statement, a statement that-even if it is true- should never be uttered in interracial settings.

6. Black people may have direct experiences with or knowledge of others experiences with White people who tried/tried to take over the planning of interracial events {because of these White people's prejudiced belief that they know better than us [Black people] and/or that they are naturally better at planning than we [Black people] are.

7. In activist movements, direct experiences or knowledge of others' experiences with White people who joined/join organizations as spies for the opposition {ie establishment}, and who attended/attend planning meetings and gave/give information about those plans to their White parents and associates who then worked against those plans, thus reinforcing the {admittedly racist, untrue and sometimes counterproductive} notion that "White people can't be trusted".

-snip-

*Some Latino/a and Native American peoples may also share these same {conscious/unconscious} attitudes and concerns about White people's attendance at "their" events.

I am definitely not saying that I approve of racially segregated events-including Martin Luther King, Jr day orKwanzaa.
I am saying that people should try to be open to understanding what might be motivating Black people and other people of color who disapprove of White attendance at these types of events.

-snip-

With regard to katlaughing's comment that some Black people are homophobic, it is true that some African Americans have personal and collective work to do in order to eradicate their negative attitudes toward homophobia. These attitudes are reflected in how African American and non-African American gays, lesbians, and transgendered individuals are treated in Black churches, and in other parts of African American society. For these reasons, I'm glad that in his January 20, 2008 speech at Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr's church Barack Obama directly referred to the need for Black people to eradicate homophobia   

-snip-

Regarding katlaughing's use in her post of the abbreviation, "AMEC": in the Eastern region of the USA, this is usually written "AME", for instance Bethel AME Church. AME {African Methodist Episcopal} is a Christian religious denomination. AMEC probably means "Africam Methodist Episcopal Church".

Another African American religious denomination with a similar name and history is AMEZ {African Methodist Episocopal Zion}.

Note:
I hope that I don't come across as being patronizing. I'm sharing that explanation about AME ecause this is an international forum with few publicly acknowledged African Americans who post here. Because of this forum's demographics, I believe that there may be people reading this thread who didn't know what the abbreviation AME means.

I also feel the need to say that because of this forum's demographics, I believe that it's important to share my insights about Black people/ "Black" issues as I've done in this post and elsewere on this forum. This is not to say that there aren't now or haven't been in the past any other African Americans posting on Mudcat. However, it appears that those African Americans who have/do post here, don't publicly acknowledge their racial/ethnic identity.

I choose to refer to my racial identity in my Mudcat posts when I think it is pertinent to the topic being discussed. This includes some of my posts about my main folk interest-children's rhymes. In my opinion, when collecting and studying children's rhymes, racial/ethnic demographics should be collected and considered just like other indices such as gender, age, and geographical location...

For what it's worth, I'm trying to carefully walk a tightrope between speaking for myself [which is what I want to do] and being seen as this forum's [to date?] only African American spokesperson [which others may erroneously conclude from my posts].

But enough of my focus on me-Happy Martin Luther King Day to all!

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:13 AM

OK, I've been known to grab a metaphor by the neck and strangle all the life out of it... but here are my thoughts this morning, as I wonder why I should leave my warm house, bundle up and head out in to the freezing cold:

I've had the pleasure of dealing with tourists firsthand many times, and have come to think of them as guests at a party. Think of the folks who show up at a big family party, many of whom you do not know, and do not even know who invited them.

I've roughly ID'd a few kinds:

There are the people who piss in the flowerbeds, throw cigarette butts out the windows. They are gently and subtly encouraged to top off and head on. If they don't get the hint, get your brother-in-law to tell them: you know the one!

There are those who have graced our presence from some neighboring, far superior town, and though they APPRECIATE SO MUCH the things we have to offer, it would be so much NICER if we did things thus and so, and everyone will be glad to hear how that little family business ought to be kept open 20 hours a day, 7 days a week, so much more convenient, and another thing, darling, this is just how things ARE, how they are DONE. Save me from such…. They are smiled at, encouraged to spend as much money as they would like, but it's so nice they have someplace better to go home to.

Then there are the people you immediately feel kinship with. You overhear their conversations, see how they interact with their charming, respectful children, how well they treat the coffee guy, and think, "wow, wouldn't it be nice if they lived here? If she was on the x Board, if they were my son's classmates?!" And you find yourself telling them things; the best place to get fresh eggs, the building downtown you wish someone would restore, a good church choir…..

Unlike Stephen Colbert ( ; ), I do see color. How nice the world is with all kinds of it! But the above scenarios, to me, have transcended race; I've seen them all. And I wish it were so for everyone, but know that it is not.

So for my part, when I feel like a tourist, I will try to be a well-behaved guest at the party, confident in my invitation, and knowing that part of the fun of life is finding our places together. I will be myself. And some will welcome me, and there are great things we can do together. Some never will, and it's both of our losses.

Anyone notice the interesting google ads popping up below?

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 03:21 AM

When I lived in Casper, WY, we had an extra special remembrance every MLK day as a young man from there was killed in the south in the 60s when he went there to work for civil rights. In Casper, the majority of marchers on this day are white. The black population is very small in numbers. Even so, there was homophobia when my lesbian friends and a few others were made to feel distinctly unwelcome when they attended services for MLK at the AMEC. Nevertheless, we all came together at a banquet, every year with everyone welcome, some terrific speakers, music, etc. and continuing discussions and reports on what we were all doing in our community and state to fight racism and other human rights. Our organisation worked for human rights throughout the state and year.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 11:35 PM

Thanks also to Janie for starting this thread, and to Bobert for sharing those quotes with us, and thanks of course to
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. for his leadership and his legacy.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 11:20 PM

Let us really BE with each other when we visit, and our times together will be authentic, and worth repeating..
-Dani


Dani, thanks for that compliment.

I give it back to you with sincere gratitude for you have expressed what I wanted to say much better than I did.

I borrowed the idea about the tourist approach to multiculturalism from my reading though I don't remember which article or book.
This shallow approach to learning about and/or experiencing different cultures may have been addressed in an article about the book The Ugly American. However, I don't think it was from that book itself.

**

Here's my list of "be attitudes":
1. be for real {another way of saying "be authentic"}
2. be considerate of other people
3. be open to learning {be curious}
4. be flexible
5. be alert and aware {be safe}
6. be brave {be of good courage}
7. be helpful
8. be healthy
9. be joy full

and

10. be all you can be {that means keep working on knowing your self and improving your self}

{Thanks to the US army recruitment ads for "be all that you can be"}

:o)

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Janie
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 10:54 PM

Well said, Azizi and Dani. And Bobert - keep those quotes a comin'!

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 10:14 PM

Thank you for the idea of people as 'tourists', Azizi. You have a wonderful way with words.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on the shallowness of some attempts at 'inclusiveness' when it comes to recognizing some of the cultures that make us up as Americans. There are some things that have become ugly and meaningless shadows of themselves, in a way that makes me distinctly un-proud to belong to the so-called Melting Pot: things like St. Patrick's Day, Mardi Gras, 'holiday' shows at school, etc. When the alternative is experiencing each other in depth, in reality, even in color, why do we settle for meaningless mis-engagement?!

We would do well to remember that there are bad tourists, and good tourists. And it is only by traveling with open eyes and open hearts that you truly see where you are. I think of people travelling to resorts in beautiful, but complicated places, never seeing beyond the facade. Then, think of travel experienced in ways that allow you be truly present in someone else's culture, home, land. The kind that reminds you of the very human things we share and enjoy together, and allows us to celebrate our differences because it's OK to see them, knowing that the very most important things about us connect us.

Let us really BE with each other when we visit, and our times together will be authentic, and worth repeating.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 08:26 PM

Ahhhh, from Dr. King's Book entitled "Stride Toward Freedom" (1957):

" Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral. It is impractical because it is a descending spiril ending in destruction for all. The old law of an eye for and eye leaves everybody blind. It is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding; it seeks to annililate rather than convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love. It destroys community and makes brotherhood impossible. It leaves society in monologue rather than dialogue. Violence ends by defeating itself. It creates bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers. A voice echoes though time saying to every potential Peter, "Put up your sword." History is cluttered with the wreckage of nations that failed to follow this command."

B~

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 08:02 PM

Or better yet, in the ironic and iconic vein--WWMD?

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:55 PM

Yikes.

The funny thing is, if you think it's funny, that here in Old Virginee we already had Lee/Jackson Day on this Monday. Now it's Lee/Jackson/King day, and if that ain't ironic, I don't know what is. Wonder how he (King) would feel about that... is this a lack of racism, or the reverse?

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:39 PM

Poor "Kumbayah". Over time that song's gotten such a bad rap.
And it's really not a bad song, but oh what baggage it carries.

Let me clarify. I think it's a good thing that people of different races, ethnicities, nationalities, sexual orientations, religions, ages etc etc etc coming together to reflect on the life and celebrate the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

It's the touristy multicultural approach to this day that I have real problems with. By "touristy multicultural approach", I mean what I consider to be the shallow and erroneous assumption that one day out of a year [Martin Luther King Day] and one month out of a year [February, Black History Month] are all that is needed to learn about the accomplishments of certain, pre-selected & mainstream approved African Americans. Which is not to say that these persons didn't do important things, but their stories are only part of the whole.

By "touristy multicultural approach" I also mean the misguided and dangerous belief that if folks celebrate MLK Day and Black History Month, then they don't need to recognize and work through their own issues with race and racism and they don't need to work toward the eradication of this nation's institutional racism which favors European Americans and disfavors non-European Americans.

But it's a good thing if-as a result of such events, or as a result of private reflections during Martin Luther King Day, and other days-folks have a renewed resolve, and renewed energy to do their[our] part to make the world a better place.

Choose your cause/s and your strategy/ies.

And-if you are doing that which is good-more power to you!

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 07:12 PM

I know what you are saying, GUEST, GUEST...

It has almost become a joke... Next thing ya' know Wall Street will figure out how to make big bucks on MLK Day and over time juts ween Dr. King outta the entire day...

That's kinda why I am sharin' stuff that alot of folks don't know about him or what he said... To me, "I Have A Dream", was just an average speech... I know this is heresy but there's so much more that folks need to know... Including his feelings about war in general and Vietnam specifically... About old men who order up the wars... About the folks who profit from them...

I will get to this stuff 'cause, for me, this is what Dr. King left... Not what corporate America has chosen as Dr. King's offical corporate and sanitized identity...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 06:50 PM

Not faulting any one thing or another about King. I'm just saying that making him into an icon also makes him into a parody of himself and the movement.

Maybe you don't watch Mad TV, but there is another generation who does, and they've had about all the MLK & Rosa Parks shoved down their throat that they can stand.

Shouldn't they at least be told that SNCC didn't have a single thing to do with violence, and MLK didn't have a single thing to do with direct action?

Time to move on into the present, and let them know who Michelle Wallace is, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 06:40 PM

Yer excatly right... No arguments with anything you have said...

King was no Malcolm X... He was no Fred Hampton... What he was, however, was yer grandfateher's Oldsmobile civil rights leader...

The speech I made reference to at Berkeley was in 1957. not 1965 'er '66... Yes, King represented the old school but he also represented non-vilence and civil disobedience and that carried us many of us well thru the 60's...

It was a multi-facited attack from various factions with various tactics... And many of us were torn between slash and burn and non-violence... Slash and burn, IMO, is why Fred Hampton got murdered by the cops... The one thing that the US governemnt is good at is killing and they don't mind doing it so when the Black Panthers flashed guns--- even if it were for effect--- then the invitation/challenge was plainly there and the governemnt was more than willing to play it's part... I remember Frank Rizzo bustin' down the doors of the Phillie Black Panter chapter, making men strip naked and walked them thru the streets... Who won that one???

Frank Rizzo... Not the B.P.'s...

But I do believe that in each of our ways we chose our battles and our weapons...

Don't get me wrong... I knew folks and coordinated stuff with SNNC folks... We diodn't have SDS on our campus... We had the Radical Student Union of which I was the "rector" (don't ask me)... I know we were infiltrated by governemnt plants who came real close to gettin' our organization to fire biomb the universtiy presidents house after Kent State... I fought them and eventually got enough folks to see these bums for what they were and the plot didn't develope any further and these guys just disappeared into the wood-work...

When I hear the Who sing "We won't get fooled agian" I think of those days and I also think about Dr. King... He taught us to have the wisdom to not use violence... He atught us that violence begets more violence and that, in essence, has been the paradyme that amnkind has followed going back forever...

Malcolm got killed, IMO, partly because he was starting to talk about uniting with white people to defeat racism and colonialism... I know that's not the official story but I don't think it's that far off course either... I do know that "system" was glad he was gone...

Now, as for King... There's a wealth of stuff that Dr, King spoke of that folks don't readily know about and as long as this thread goes I'll be sharing more of his stuff... Some of it is quite "radical"... No, not violent, but radical...

Not to dismiss the importane of a Roas Parks, or a Stokley Carmicle, or a H. Rat Brown, or, or...

And, yes, after the Civil Rights Act was passed Dr. King did lie low fir a year or two... Some of this is explanable and he talks about this, as well... I do understand how he as an ordained minister might have to do a little soul searching with so much going on in '66 and '67... I don't fault him for that... He was a deeply spiritual man who waited on his Big Boss to tell him what to do...

Those who are not of Faith might not understand that... I do...

More Dr. King quotes and thoughts next time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 06:36 PM

Well, what a small world : )

Janie's impressions of our little small town march and celebration are right, of course, but not the whole story. There are people, and congregations, who clearly would like the day to be 'theirs', and my (white) presence doesn't make them happy.

Tough shit. I'm going anyway.

Not alone because there are plenty of other people who are as glad to see me as I am to see them, and we will march, and sing, and eat together. Some of them, this is the only time we see each other during the year, and we all share the blame for that, and changing that is my challenge.

I was at a meeting today where I recalled that the meals I've attended around this event have been some of the best of my life, if only because invariably SOMEONE has come to me and personally welcomed me. The point was being made that as long as people eat together, and make music together, boundaries must be broken down.

King belongs to all of us because he is one of the great and blessed people this country has produced, and the ripples of his love and conviction are still moving out. We are all in that stream together, peacefully, or kicking and screaming.

Thanks for the thread, Janie.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 06:05 PM

Well, while King was talking to the choir at Berkely, people like Ella Baker were in North Carolina and Fannie Lou Hamer were in Mississippi...and the lunch counter protests weren't organized by King either.

Baker eventually quit SCLC and moved over to join SNCC, which was far more progressive than SCLC, especially when it came to treating women and poor, non-college educated black activists as equals. That simply never happened in SCLC.

In truth, it was SNCC, Stokely Carmichael, and some others who put women and poor blacks in leadership positions. They were the true progressives of the civil rights movement, IMO. King, the SCLC, and the NAACP were far more patriarchal, top down, church father dominated, and that really didn't reflect the spirit of the 60s. They were beholden to white funders and thinking strategically about the longevity of their organizations. So they were really opposed to the direct action tactics completely. SNCC never intended to be an organization with longevity. It intended to be, and was, a force that used direct action and civil disobedience to get society to change, not just the laws.

In that sense, they were part and parcel of the direct action movements for political AND economic AND social change that was the zeitgist of the truly progressive movements for change that came out of the 60s, including the early second wave of the feminist movement (before they ran the women of color and poor and working poor women out of it) and the environmental movement (before it moved to K Street and got cozy with Congress) and the Chicano(a)/Latino(a) movements for immigrant farm workers, etc.

SNCC and the Black Panthers did though, as the strong ties between those two orgs and the Black Arts movement demonstrated. It was very much in the same spirit as the radical New Left among white, Latino, and Asian students and poor whites being drafted into the war.

King, SCLC & the NAACP, if you understand the timeline of the civil rights movement and it's movers and shakers, were pretty much passed by, and on the verge of becoming irrelevant to the movement by the time King came out against the war and on the side of poor black workers. People simply don't realize just how silent King was between the passage of the Voting Rights Act (which didn't actually result in SCLC registering many voters in the south at all) in 1964, and his push over the cliff by the radical New Left to come out against the war on the poor and in Vietnam.

Berkely wasn't the center of the universe, it was just handful of white students and a couple of faculty who all were there at the time that the Voting Rights Act was being pushed through Congress, who thought of themselves that way. That certainly wasn't the way Berkely was seen in Greensboro or Chicago or Memphis, by blacks or whites.

What year was Medgar Evers assassinated? Malcolm X? Did the SNCC kids sit down at the Greensboro lunch counter? Remember, these kids were the first in their families to get to college, and they were being expelled for participating in the sit-ins. Many black families throughout the south depended upon white patronage to keep their jobs and their families together. Parents of those kids paid a price for "not keeping their children in line" in ways their white patrona approved.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming King wasn't an important leader, or largely influential. But to say that SNCC followed in King's and the SCLC's footsteps just isn't accurate or true. It is a lot more complicated than that. (BTW, the first sit-in in Greensboro was in 1960)

I'm with Azizi. It's all about Martin and Rosa and kumbayah these days. No mention of the fact that it was a woman--Ella Barker--who was the face of SCLC in North Carolina. There is a good reason why she left misogynist SCLC, and joined forces with SNCC.

Freedom Summer & the Freedom Schools--that was SNCC, not SCLC or NAACP or CORE. The SDS, the American Indian Movement, etc all modeled themselves after SNCC.

Mention Fred Hampton or Malcolm X, and you get glares (or worse) from the very conservative black middle class elite these days--both those supporting Obama and Clinton, neither of whom ever mention one word about the poor and oppressed in this country, much less come out against the corporate takeover of the US government.

As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a dime's worth of difference between Hilary and Barak. Or John McCain for that matter. At least Mc Cain has a bit better position on immigration than Obama or Clinton have.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 04:56 PM

Well, I leaned a little more toward SNNC myself, GUEST, GUEST but I don't think there would have been a SNNC without the work of Dr. King, and others, prior to SNNC...

As for Obama, there is another thread on him for hashing out differences of opinion... But this thread is about our memories of Dr. King and if folks don't mind I'm just going to dance in and out of it and not get caught up in tangental issues...

Way back in 1957, Dr, King addressed the students at the University of California at Berkeley... He was invited jointly by the local chapters of the WMCA andf WYCA... The date was June 4th.

"...there are some things within our social order to which I am proud to be maladjusted and to which I call upon you to be maladjutsed. I never intend to adjust myself to segregation and discrimination. I never intend to adjuts myself to mob rule. I never intend to adjust myself to thentragic effects of the meathods of physical violence and to tragic militarism. I call upon you to be maladjutsed to such things. I call upon you t be maladjusted as Amos who in the midst of injustices of his day cried out in words that echo accross the generation, 'Let judegment run down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.'"

*******************************************************************

Next: Hmmmmmmm??? Maybe a little message from the past to George Bush...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 03:54 PM

Isn't it odd how everyone nowadays behaves as if MLK were the only martyr of the civil rights movement?

I was always much more of a SNCC follower, myself.

Also odd that Sen Obama doesn't mention anything about the misogyny of the mainstream civil rights and Black Muslim wing of the Black Power and Black Arts movement.

That's pretty damn selective, IMO, when supposedly taking "one's own" to task for being anti-Semitic and homophobic.

What about anti-Hispanic, anti-immigrant racism? What about the militaristic bent of Barak Obama and virtually the entire mainstream black community nowadays? How about the ways Barak Obama and the black mainstream tries to completely erase the influences of and ties to the Black Muslim community in the US?

Political expedience.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 03:08 PM

Here's a link to the text of Barack Obama's Jan 20, 2008 speech at Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta {Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr's church}:

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/obama%20ebenezer%20Baptist%20Church.htm
Remarks of Senator Barack Obama-"The Great Need of the Hour"

-snip-

And here's another excerpt of that great speech:

"..on the eve of the bus boycotts in Montgomery, at a time when many were still doubtful about the possibilities of change, a time when those in the black community mistrusted themselves, and at times mistrusted each other, King inspired with words not of anger, but of an urgency that still speaks to us today:

"Unity is the great need of the hour" is what King said. Unity is how we shall overcome.

What Dr. King understood is that if just one person chose to walk instead of ride the bus, those walls of oppression would not be moved. But maybe if a few more walked, the foundation might start to shake. If a few more women were willing to do what Rosa Parks had done, maybe the cracks would start to show. If teenagers took freedom rides from North to South, maybe a few bricks would come loose. Maybe if white folks marched because they had come to understand that their freedom too was at stake in the impending battle, the wall would begin to sway. And if enough Americans were awakened to the injustice; if they joined together, North and South, rich and poor, Christian and Jew, then perhaps that wall would come tumbling down, and justice would flow like water, and righteousness like a mighty stream.

Unity is the great need of the hour – the great need of this hour. Not because it sounds pleasant or because it makes us feel good, but because it's the only way we can overcome the essential deficit that exists in this country.

I'm not talking about a budget deficit. I'm not talking about a trade deficit. I'm not talking about a deficit of good ideas or new plans.

I'm talking about a moral deficit. I'm talking about an empathy deficit. I'm taking about an inability to recognize ourselves in one another; to understand that we are our brother's keeper; we are our sister's keeper; that, in the words of Dr. King, we are all tied together in a single garment of destiny.

We have an empathy deficit when we're still sending our children down corridors of shame – schools in the forgotten corners of America where the color of your skin still affects the content of your education.

We have a deficit when CEOs are making more in ten minutes than some workers make in ten months; when families lose their homes so that lenders make a profit; when mothers can't afford a doctor when their children get sick.

We have a deficit in this country when there is Scooter Libby justice for some and Jena justice for others; when our children see nooses hanging from a schoolyard tree today, in the present, in the twenty-first century.   

We have a deficit when homeless veterans sleep on the streets of our cities; when innocents are slaughtered in the deserts of Darfur; when young Americans serve tour after tour of duty in a war that should've never been authorized and never been waged.

And we have a deficit when it takes a breach in our levees to reveal a breach in our compassion; when it takes a terrible storm to reveal the hungry that God calls on us to feed; the sick He calls on us to care for; the least of these He commands that we treat as our own.

So we have a deficit to close. We have walls – barriers to justice and equality – that must come down. And to do this, we know that unity is the great need of this hour.

Unfortunately, all too often when we talk about unity in this country, we've come to believe that it can be purchased on the cheap. We've come to believe that racial reconciliation can come easily – that it's just a matter of a few ignorant people trapped in the prejudices of the past, and that if the demagogues and those who exploit our racial divisions will simply go away, then all our problems would be solved.

All too often, we seek to ignore the profound institutional barriers that stand in the way of ensuring opportunity for all children, or decent jobs for all people, or health care for those who are sick. We long for unity, but are unwilling to pay the price.

But of course, true unity cannot be so easily won. It starts with a change in attitudes – a broadening of our minds, and a broadening of our hearts"...

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 02:52 PM

Janie, I'm very sorry that you and your son had those experiences you described.

Blogger Steve Clemons from Huffington Post wrote about what he calls the "tough love" portion of the Martin Luther King, Jr Day speech that Barack Obama gave today at Ebenezer Baptist Church, MLK, Jr {and Senior's] Atlanta church:

"And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we're honest with ourselves, we'll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King's vision of a beloved community.

We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.

Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation.

So let us say that on this day of all days, each of us carries with us the task of changing our hearts and minds. The division, the stereotypes, the scape-goating, the ease with which we blame our plight on others -- all of this distracts us from the common challenges we face -- war and poverty; injustice and inequality.

We can no longer afford to build ourselves up by tearing someone else down. We can no longer afford to traffic in lies or fear or hate. It is the poison that we must purge from our politics; the wall that we must tear down before the hour grows too late.

Because if Dr. King could love his jailor; if he could call on the faithful who once sat where you do to forgive those who set dogs and fire hoses upon them, then surely we can look past what divides us in our time, and bind up our wounds, and erase the empathy deficit that exists in our hearts".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-clemons/obamas-tough-love-speech_b_82368.html

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Janie
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 02:36 PM

I hear what you are saying, Azizi. But I don't see MLK Day as a 'feel good' event. I see it as an opportunity to reflect and recognize the work is not done. None of his work. I also consider him to have been much more than a leader of civil rights. He was a moral voice for freedom and equality of all people, and he was moving more and more in that direction when he was cut down.

I think to many, many people, especially White people, MLK day is nothing but a 3 day weekend. I usually participate in the MLK day march in my little village - one of the very few white faces. It is very clear from public discussion about affirmative action that many Whites are very ready to deny what a strong force racism continues to be in our country.

It may be that Dr. King would ultimately have been squeezed out of the civil rights leadership by extending his focus beyond civil rights for African Americans. There is really no way to know. I do know he was a powerful and effective voice and leader of this country, and not just of Black people in this country. His was a voice for social justice for all.

Taylor Branch comments some on this. Taylor Branch Interview

I am usually one of only a handful of white faces in the MLK day march in my little town. Part of that is an indication of white attitudes. Interestingly though, part of it is because the Black community also tends to want to exclude and limit participation by whites, and the white churches in the MLK day events in our part of the county.   I have experienced this first hand in trying to get information about the full range of events planned - many of which occur in the Black churches, as the local NAACP is mostly organized around the Black churches - phone calls never returned - etc.

The last time I attended anything other than the March was when my son was 10. After we left the church where the main program was held, he turned to me and said, "Mom, why do we keep coming to this. They obviously don't want us here." He was right. I always understood that our presence was tolerated and nothing more, but that year I had a clear sense that we really were not wanted.   

Now we go to Durham and participate there.

Subject: RE: BS: In Memory: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 02:11 PM

It does, indeed, M-Azizi... And many people think of King only in terms of his "I Have A Dream" speech which, IMHO, was the smoke from candle from the icing on the cake but the cake itself was (and is) the struggle....

I'm not too sure how many folks are going to join this thread but I'd like to consider myself a student and follower of Dr. King and so I'll be dropping in here now and then to share some of the cake...

Ten days before Dr. King was assasinated he spoke before the Rabbinical Assembly and here is what he said in reagards to militancy:

"Now, so often the word 'militant' is misunderstood because most people think of militancy in military terms. But to be militant merely mean to be demanding and to be persistent, and in this sense I think the non-violent movement has demonstrated great militancy. It is possible to be militantly non-violent."

In the following paragraph Dr. King follows up with, "Americans have a responsibility, indeed a great responsibility, to work passionately and unrelentingly for the solution of the of racism, and if that means constantly reminding white society of its obligation, that must be done. If I have been accused of that, then I will have to continue to be accused."

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When I return to this thread I'll be sharing Dr. King's thoughts on "malajustment"... They are a treat...

Bobert