The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 05:26 AM

. . . and information, and manifestations of wisdom, can come from many different sources. I don't see that information acquired on-line is any more ephemeral than information acquired any other way. One should, of course, verify, in either case.

I enjoy discussing things on-line with knowledgeable people. And I most certainly enjoy getting together with friends, talking, swapping songs. . . .

Two different things. Apples and oranges.

I'm not talking about "either-or." I'm talking about "and."

Don Firth

Don't see how internet forums like this are substantially different from the great minds of the 18th century corresponding by letter with each other. Of course it's faster.
Excellent post Don and I quite agree with you. Wav has provided great learning opportunities, it's just a shame that he himself refuses to learn. For the miles of screen space he wasted on braggin about his BA in humaities, his attitude of refusing to learn shows what a waste of time his schooling was.
After these threads, I would definitely look you up were I in the Northwest USA, or go to a show.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:57 PM

With all due respect, Little Hawk, you're doing it again. Aloof, superior, above-it-all, and judgmental. You do that quite a bit when, apparently, a discussion gets a bit too heated for your taste. Some threads operate of a couple of different levels. You are seeing only the surface and you are missing what really matters.

I have long since given up on David. My interest here is the discussion with the other folks, to read what they have to say, and to express what I have to say. I will quit when I am ready and I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else.

Little Hawk, I like you. You are an intelligent, generally well-informed person (albeit one who has some erroneous preconceptions about American politics that you tend to reiterate in every political discussion), and in general, I enjoy your posts.

But—(and you knew there was a "but," of course) there are times when you can get outrageously pompous, and this is one of those times.

Sorry.

Don Firth

P. S. I will probably not be back tonight. I am following the election returns.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:50 PM

LH - You were originally talking about 'moral superiority', and now you're not - there are many ways to feel superior, and sometimes it just can't be helped. Some of us don't like feeling superior just for the sake of it, but to be able to bestow a bit of knowledge or wisdom to someone can be no different to giving a gift. Naturally, the motivation can vary, but it's cynical to assume everyone's is as you describe. Having said that, as a Northern English certified curmudgeon, it's my patriotic duty to admire your cynicism ;-)

Don - When are you emigrating to England?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 08:18 PM

Dear oh dear.. do I have to call Matron?

My theory is that we all have an 'inner twat' - an element overlooked by conventional transactional analysis. WaV is a classic example of someone simply not in tune with, and unaware of, his inner twat.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:20 PM

"I hate to say it, but it looks like you're feeling superior again, Little Hawk. . . ."

Yeah. I am. ;-) I did say "everyone", didn't I, Don? That obviously includes me. But I own up to it, and I laugh at all of us...myself included.

We all argue and debate as we go through life...sometimes about fairly substantial things, usually about very trivial things. The moment we start doing it, our egos become engaged. Our every response is an attempt to assert some kind of ego dominance over the other person's last response. And on and on and on it goes. This thread is one of the most egregious examples of that petty process spinning itself out over and over again.

And what does it all come down to?

"You're an asshole."

"No, I'm not."

"Yes, you are, and what you just said proves it."

"No, it doesn't."

"Oh, but it does. I am a highly respected folksinger and all my friends adore me and they all say you're an asshole too, so it's obviously true."

"No, it isn't, because you didn't understand me that last time."

"Oh, yes I did. We all understood you. But you don't understand yourself, because you're an asshole."

And so on, and so on.

And now you're telling me that I'm feeling superior? Well, yeah! Of course I am. I like me better than I do the guy I'm arguing with. In that respect I'm exactly like everyone else here. We're ALL assholes at times!!!!

And when we are we go...   Bla. Bla. Bla.

But it's fun to do that, right? And it's just too irrestistible not to try one more time to get in the last telling word that PROVES the other guy is wrong, right?

Prove me wrong by never posting to this silly damn thread again, Don.

Surprise me. Prove you're not driven by your little preening ego the way I and every else here is driven by our little preening ego. Prove that YOU are better than that.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:04 PM

. . . and information, and manifestations of wisdom, can come from many different sources. I don't see that information acquired on-line is any more ephemeral than information acquired any other way. One should, of course, verify, in either case.

I enjoy discussing things on-line with knowledgeable people. And I most certainly enjoy getting together with friends, talking, swapping songs. . . .

Two different things. Apples and oranges.

I'm not talking about "either-or." I'm talking about "and."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:54 PM

"Everyone likes to feel superior. . . ." Really? Isn't that a rather broad generalization? I've met people like that, but I tend to find that people who like to feel that things are (and should be) equitable are generally a lot more pleasant to be around.

I've also noticed (sound psychology, in fact) that people tend to endow others with their own predilictions.

I hate to say it, but it looks like you're feeling superior again, Little Hawk. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 05:43 PM

Everyone likes to feel superior, and they all have their own particular ways of doing so, Don, some more nasty than others. But most of them just won't own up to it.

As for benefiting from the wisdom of others, I find that much more satisfying in 3-D than online. Things are too ephemeral online, and you never know for sure what you're dealing with. I'd rather sit down in a song circle and admire someone else's musicianship firsthand and see and hear what they do than talk about it over a computer keyboard.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 05:09 PM

"I have found there are people on this forum whose wisdom I appreciate, and whose company I'm honoured to be in. I've learnt stuff by being here. . . ."

Smokey got that right! One of the undoubtedly unintended benefits of someone like David blurting the kind of blather he does is the, rather that calling out the local bullies to savage the village idiot (as one or two people here seem to think as they gaze down from their lofty positions on high), it often stimulates very interesting and informative discussions by way of knowledgeable people stepping in to refute the nonsense. These little broo-ha-has tend to stimulate a good exchange of ideas, they often cause us to re-examine some of our own assumptions, and everyone winds up learning.

Except, generally, for the stumblebum who uttered the claptrap in the first place and insists on digging his heels in despite the tsunami of good information from which he could learn.

In addition, I have met some people here on-line who seem like really interesting and knowledgeable folks (it helps to get to know someone if they are vigorously expressing their beliefs and opinions), and I hope to encounter them again on other threads.

So for those who like to feel superior and sit back and go "Tsk tsk," I'd say open your eyes (and minds) and take another look.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 04:27 PM

My life's work isn't done yet. And I can't say I've heard the question!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 03:59 PM

In MY life's work I have implicitly questioned the judgement of misguided people like Gervase.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 03:28 PM

I've also questioned capitalism, monarchism, and other aspects of our status quo, in my life's work.

Further examples of your resolute refusal to assimilate into Our Own Good English Culture. Such preconceptions and prejudices are an obstacle to your repatriation - hardly the wonder it isn't going well, Wavy.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:47 PM

Your life's work?
Blimey, it's not much of a life, eh.
Do us all a favour and get another one. Take up jazz and annoy the tits off a whole new bunch of people.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:32 PM

Ha! Well, only a few, in my experience. Not enough to raise any major concern.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:27 PM

Volgadon:
"'You're not wrong LH, twaddle like that is never going to influence anybody'
Not so sure about that. Somebody must have influenced Wav."

Perhaps so, just maybe, but if that's the extent of their influence I don't think we need lose any sleep.. fools can be led, without doubt, but how many folkies are that stupid?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:24 PM

Wow. Impressive. The spirit of William McGonagall has not died yet, I see. It lives on. Bravo!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,His Brother's Brother
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:17 PM

#6 Sweet Dreams

Last night I had the strangest dream, I do not lie, e.g.,
Whilst my English helix a-watering,
All immigrants took up the battle-cry-
FROM NOW ON, e.g., and moved back home,
To practise their Own Good Culture
And leave my Morris to such as I.

I do not dance it, myself,
But others should,
For when lost is culture good,
Society surely suffereth.

And, further, in my dream,
My very own Good English Dream,
Mr. Carthy, Martin, sending his guitar to Spain,
An English Cittern did accquire,
Musicians, followed suit, never did they tire,
To Greece bouzoukis went, a significant cultural gain,
And little organs sounded on England's Fair and Pleasent Green,
Again.

"Our roast is our boast; not foreign curree,"
Said our Own Good English delegate, echoing me.
Against capitalist migration, the UN did decree,
Which prospect filled my own good self with glee.

'Multiculturalism is fallen, is fallen, is fallen,'
The bells (all closely associated with England) did toll,
'Multiculturalism is fallen, to rise no more.'
Women gave up tennis, put the kettle on,
For tea, naturally,
And none cared for to sing in harmonee.

I woke up,
Much the sadder,
   On pottage did sup,
Then my heart turned gladder,
                  For I now knew,
                   That the way forward,
                              For humanity,
                                 Nothing could stop.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 12:49 PM

I wish I could show you MY life's work, but it has to wait until completion when the unveiling occurs.

What it will be is the world's largest free-standing statue of William Shatner, clad in a speedo, and brandishing a hot branding iron. I have labored at building this monument for over 40 years now and I hope to complete it before my death.

If I should pass away prematurely, however, the staff at the WSSBA will carry on until the work is done.

This will be my legacy. My testament. My gift to the World.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 12:41 PM

I haven't heard much about Obama's stance on immigration, but on other areas he seems to be a regulationist who questions capitalism - much more than McCain. And, while here on Mudcat immigration is the factor that I get asked about the most, I've also questioned capitalism, monarchism, and other aspects of our status quo, in my life's work.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:42 AM

Is he closer to the Wav way? I thought Obama is supposed to be pretty soft on immigration.

"You're not wrong LH, twaddle like that is never going to influence anybody"

Not so sure about that. Somebody must have influenced Wav.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 07:28 AM

It's just a shame Obama has abandoned his Kenyan roots - after all, when people lose their culture society suffers...

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 06:27 AM

"As soon as the election bullshit passes I'll be outta' here and leave him for others but right now, its been great fun abusing young David Franks." (Spaw)!!!!!...for what it's worth, from what I can gather, Obama is far closer to the WAV way and I hope he wins.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 03:38 AM

Smokey has it about right Hawkster. For me its a pleasant diversion while the forum is in poli-sci mode. About Wavy I couldn't give a shit less. As soon as the election bullshit passes I'll be outta' here and leave him for others but right now, its been great fun abusing young David Franks.

Don't get me wrong, I truly do believe he's a racist, bigot, and no talent doofus, but I don't care enough to get past that much. So until the election passes by....................

Wavydorkusbigot,

Follow my advice and go stare into a mirror and say, "I am a racist bigot with no talent and my Mummy blows hogs."


Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 02:42 AM

Okay, fair enough, I guess. I'll trust you on that. I think people are giving WAV's opinions (whatever they may be) far more importance than is really appropriate, that's all. This thread is not a big deal.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 12:53 AM

You're not wrong LH, twaddle like that is never going to influence anybody, but I have no moral outrage, as such. Nor do I particularly consider myself morally superior, but you'll have to trust me on that. To be honest, WaV brings out a side of me that I don't like much, but it needs some exercise every so often. It's a bit like driving past a gruesome road accident and not being able to resist looking, perhaps. On the other hand, I have found there are people on this forum whose wisdom I appreciate, and whose company I'm honoured to be in. I've learnt stuff by being here - I wish everyone could.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 12:25 AM

So what, Smokey? He is in no position to have any influence on the UK's immigration laws, so who cares? He CAN'T deprive anyone of their choice, he has no power to. Can't you live knowing that there are a few powerless people out there who don't agree with you on things like that? I predict that all your moral outrage here is going to have utterly no effect whatsoever on changing WAV or remaking him into someone you approve of, so what are you persisting in it for? Does it make you feel great finding someone you can feel so morally superior to? I know that it gives most people a real thrill when they do that...it's so much fun and so self-affirming. ;-) But this whole scenario here strikes me more and more each day like some sort of tacky emotional addiction that a group of people are coming here for day after day. Each day you all return for your fix of superiority to WAV.

Me, I just come here because its so darn funny watching you all do the Pavlov's dog routine over and over again. If WAV is indeed a troll, then he has found a reactive goldmine here that is 42 carat pure.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:25 PM

WaV:

You seek to deprive people of the opportunity to emigrate in order to improve their lives.

You seek to deprive people of the right to play the music of their choice, where they choose.

You do both.

You are a hypocrite.

You aren't dangerous, you're just a very naughty boy.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 11:06 PM

Wavydorkusbigot,

Follow my advice and go stare into a mirror and say, "I am a racist bigot with no talent and my Mummy blows hogs."


Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:45 PM

You people obviously need to hear more poetry. It soothes the savage beast.

Ahem!

A Chinese bricklayer named Fong
Had a "tool" so incredibly long
A professor named Blake
Mistook it for a snake
Now it's in a glass case in Hong Kong

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 07:46 PM

"I heard somewhere that Shakespeare messed around with the lute a bit"

The filthy traitor! That's Southerners for you.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:38 PM

I read every word, as usual, and agree with some, as usual.

Some of it confirmed David's preconceptions, in other words, and some of it didn't.

There's an apocryphal story about the burning of the Library at Alexandria, one of the great lost treasures of the ancient world. Supposedly the Caliph whose forces had taken the city ordered the burning of the library, on the grounds that it contained teachings contrary to the Koran. One of the caliph's subordinates tried to reason with him, arguing that not all of the literature in the library was sinful - some of it had messages that you could also find in the Koran. So? said the Caliph - if it's just the same as the Koran, we don't need to keep it. And into the flames it went.

When someone who's been performing in front of a paying public since before you were born not only tells you you need to work on your singing but tells you how, it strikes me that you don't "agree with some" (and then try to lecture him about recording). You pay attention, and consider very carefully the possibility that everything you're being told might be worth listening to. Don, you have the patience of a saint - and I hope you find something better to do with it than trying to communicate with a tone-deaf twit. Thanks for posting the exercises, by the way.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:19 PM

where•fore    adverb
Etymology:   Middle English wherfor, wherfore, from where, wher + for, fore for – 13th century.
def:   For what reason or purpose. Why.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:34 PM

Bollocks does it!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:11 PM

Wherefore means "where", thou pathetic, maundering, chuckle-headed son of a witless haberdasher's apprentice. Take thy mewling utterances elsewhere, thou vile poltroon. Away with thee!

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Gervase
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 04:03 PM

where for art thou, crude Catspaw
It's 'wherefore', you wuckfit, and it means 'why', not 'where'. I wouldn't expect some scrounging parasite of an economic migrant to know that, of course.

Got a proper job yet, you workshy layabout?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:54 PM

Don, I'm sure he messed around with it a bit in order to, ahem, mess around with something else a bit.

Wav, your English is execrable.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:44 PM

My last "e.g.", e.g., Volgadon, was because the poem that followed was an example of my previously posted point, NOT sent by the seaside.

And where for art thou, crude Catspaw...spitting feathers in your kitty litter?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 02:29 PM

Wavydorkusbigot,

Follow my advice and go stare into a mirror and say, "I am a racist bigot with no talent and my Mummy blows hogs."


Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:22 PM

I heard somewhere that Shakespeare messed around with the lute a bit, but he was no John Dowland.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:25 PM

Why the constant use of, e.g.? As part of your repatriation efforts you should learn how to use English properly.

So Shakespeare mentioned the recorder once or twice, certainly not as often as he mentioned other instruments (no e.g.'s, sorry). No reason at all to suppose that he did. If Shakespear played anything, I suspect it would have been some string instrument so he could serenade girls. Bill was far too busy to take up music seriously, running a show and writing takes up all your time!!
As for little organ, it is not certain that he meant the recorder, merely some small instrument (organ meaning instrument, not the pipe-monstrosity in cathedrals).

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: s&r
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:24 AM

He also mentions Murder, usury, under age sex, sailing, fairies, asses, so that means he probably indulged in those...

Stu

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:17 AM

Gee, that'd be another thing Shakespeare was far superior at than you Wavydickless. Follow my advice and go stare into a mirror and say, "I am a racist bigot with no talent and my Mummy blows hogs."

The truth shall set you free.

Spaw

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 06:08 AM

"I wonder if he (Shakespeare) could play the recorder?" (Smokey)..I do too - he certainly mentioned it several times in, e.g., Hamlet...?

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 01:08 AM

Well, she's only human I suppose..

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 11:13 PM

Yeah, Smokey, same as writing. Once you've finished a piece, it's a good idea to let it sit for a couple of days before reading it for possible editing. Gives you a little perspective.

By the way, I'm always a little nervous about dropping my pants around Matron. She tends to get excited. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 10:33 PM

Sorry Don - it's really none of my business.. I do hope it goes well though. If I may offer one tip, it would be to try not listen to what you've recorded immediately after you've done it; give it a couple of days if you possibly can, if not more. Counter-intuitive, I know, but well worth it.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:10 PM

Ah yes Don, but Shakespeare didn't have that knack for simplicity or the keen observatiional skills of our learned friend. I wonder if he could play the recorder? Nah - not clever enough.

Try not to procrastinate over the recording Don, that's one of my (many) faults, and being a being a bombastic opinionated old git, people are reticent to give me the required kick up the arse. Just do it - there's nothing to lose - at the very worst you'll learn stuff that you can't learn any other way.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 06:45 PM

All in due time, Smokey, all in due time. After all, we wouldn't want the project to be a complete wash-out, now would we?

What the Immortal Bard has to say on the subject of singing, from As You Like It, Act II, scene 3:

An he had been a dog that should have howled thus, they would have hanged him: and I pray God his bad voice bode no mischief. I had as lief have heard the night-raven, come what plague could have come after it.

And Act V, scene 3:

Shall we clap into't roundly, without hawking or spitting or saying we are hoarse, which are the only prologues to a bad voice?

Could anyone or anything be the very epitome of English culture other than William Shakespeare himself? He obviously had a great deal of insight and musical taste, not to mention quite a way with words.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 05:36 PM

Don - I just read your (above) review.. Record you must, with all your heart. Do it now, or I will send you to Matron for a thrashing and an enema. And can I hear it please? (the recording, that is.)

If nothing else, WaV provides a good reliable bench-mark by which to judge one's own efforts.

Subject: RE: The Weekly Walkabout (part 2.)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Nov 08 - 05:15 PM

What I'm looking forward to is the day when it begins to spinoff into a number of related threads...like the Mary Tyler Moore show spawning "Rhoda" and "Lou Grant" and various other series.