The re-Imagined Village

Subject: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:45 AM

A proper English village (that would have Dickens purring in his grave), with a proper English pub - overlooking a gently flowing river, licked by weeping willows, and glided upon by mute swans...a pot of Hedera helix on the windowsill, a glass of mead and a plate of chips on the table, a Northumberland/Durham/Lancashire clog dancer by my side ;-)> and the homely timbre of an English flute or concertina in my ear...

And as for my abode (although I'm mostly vegan, these days)...

Poem cum Song/Chant 101 of 230: JUST SUBSIST

(TUNE:

D F# G G A A G G
D A B B A A G G
D B B B A A G G
D A A A B A G G
D A A A B A G G)

At times when I've had time to take,
    I've thought of a plot by a lake:
The plot would be of fertile ground;
    The lake would have some trout around.

The plot's house would be made of brick -
    Well insulated, in good nick.
And, round this abode, there'd be built -
    Solar panels, kept at best tilt.

Inside large coops would run the legs
    Of chooks and quails - for fresh eggs.
A vine for grapes plus summer shade;
    And, in thin beds, vegetables laid.

Up at dawn, to use all sunlight -
    Fish and farm by day, read at night.
A spouse with me I'd not resist -
    In retirement, we'd just subsist.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)

How about you?...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Smedley
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:56 AM

You wouldn't get 'chooks' in an English village - that's an Australian term for chickens.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Darowyn
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:15 AM

Chips! = French fried potatoes?
Shouldn't it be a proper English food- roast beef for the rich, boiled turnips (pronounced 'turmut', of course) for the poor?
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:21 AM

Mead with my chips? What an awful sounding lunch!

Mead with pottage maybe, but definitely beer with my chips! A bottle of Newkie Brown...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:47 AM

My maternal Grandfather was a champion Durham clog-dancer, as were his brothers, raised as they were in a colliery village where you'd only ever find Hedera helix growing up outside walls and the only thing you drank with chips was tea or, for an extra special treat, Dandelion & Burdock. In Traditional Northumbrian Folk-life, mead is something only ever drank in minuscule free samples during days out on Holy Island; it might even be brought back in a souvenir gift set but seldom, if ever, is it actually consumed. Cygnus olor aren't uniquely English; and Salix sepulcralis is a non-native hybrid. Add into the mix the wholly non-traditional E. Flute & E. Concertina and the whole thing smacks of fantasy rather than imagination & is thus entirely at odds with the actual & historical realities of English life, rural or otherwise, which are, I think you'll find, very wonderful things indeed.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:01 AM

A bottle of Newkie Brown...

Known to us Geordies as Dog and as fine a complement to chips as any, especially if one ups the anti with the salt and vinegar; lashings I believe is the word we are looking for here, in which case a bottle of Dog is your only man - even up in Auld Reekie where brown sauce is the condiment of choice. These days I only drink Newcastle Brown Ale in rare moments of wistfulness for my native Tyneside; and only ever in a half-pint glass, as is traditional.

Chips; a non-native cuisine developed from a non-native root vegetable introduced from the New World, which just about sums up the wonders of English Culture & Cuisine.

with pottage maybe

Not the best word to use on a WAV thread, CS; no doubt he'll follow it up with food combinations so bizarre as to make chips & mead sound acceptable. Time will tell...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:16 AM

I think if you want to get a handle on the realities of English rural life, it's worth reading Akenfield: Portrait of an English Village by Ronald Blythe - written in 1974 but with memories going back to the First World War. Life was tough for rural communities and agricultural workers in Suffolk and Norfolk, for example, were treated virtually as slaves.

I have family letters, written from Norfolk to Canada - starting in 1837 and continuing to 1890 - which paint a very interesting picture of the precariousness of rural life indeed. Why 1837? Because around 40,000 people left East Anglia around then - paid for - to find a better life in Canada and Australia.

The re-imagined village is a nice idea - but "in retirement" you might be near starvation in those days! To retire meant to stop work - and to stop work might mean being out of your tied cottage - and into the workhouse... :-)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:17 AM

"a bottle of Dog is your only man"

I love a man who paraphrases Flann O'Brien...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:17 AM

Isn't easy to tell WAV is not English, every time he writes of something ' essentially English '

Dave H

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:30 AM

As for beer, I've got this fantastic book of ancient herbal ritual beers: Secrets of ancient fermentation Never got around to brewing any as yet. But very tempted to go hunting nettles or coltsfoot one suitably totemic day/full Moon/whatnot and give it a shot.

There is something of an essential primordial magic in fermentation that captures the sacred imagination. One of the reasons I love to bake a ceremonial loaf on 'pagan' feast days - just a token gesture, but there's something of prayer and communion in bread baking - which certainly predates the 'breaking of bread' by a long way, and is far more profound by way of partaking in 'the mystery' than any crumby bit of lembas proffered by the hands on an intercessor.. IMO! Plus hunting nettles or other foraged foods for adding to the dough, make it fun. The inclusion of bloody offerings from bramble scored fingers also seem somewhat essential..

Haven't had any Newkie for a while, but I too was taught the method of topping up a half pint glass to keep the bubbles lively.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:36 AM

I love a man who paraphrases Flann O'Brien...

When your village exists only inside of your head,
and your clog dancer turns out to be a man;
When even the swans are apt to migrate -
A bottle of Dog is your only man.

When your English Concertina is full of Chinese reads,
And your English Flute is made in Japan,
When nothing you believe in is quite what it seems -
A bottle of Dog is your only man.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 07:43 AM

Don't worry too much about the reeds being Chinese, even if the concertina were English made then the chances are that the reeds are Italian and made from Swedish steel.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 07:55 AM

Glorious, SOP.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 08:09 AM

Bless 'im. Wor Davey, the Aussie wannabe Brit, does provide some welcome light relief at times. It's astonishing how someone can try so very hard and simply, essentially - even utterly - just not get it. I picture him as a bumbling spy in one of those wartime Ealing escapades; the hapless Herman given away time and again by some shibboleth.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: doc.tom
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 08:30 AM

"You wouldn't get 'chooks' in an English village - that's an Australian term for chickens."

Actually, it's Scottish.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 10:41 AM

DANDELION and BURDOCK......... My favourite. My Grandma always kept in a supply of this when I was a boy. She called it HOREHOUND. Anybody else heard of that name?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 11:04 AM

Oh bless 'im, 'es been watching way too many Ealing films *LOL*

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 11:40 AM

Besides, a true Englishman would write better poetry.


A

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 11:46 AM

burl - you used to be able to get sticks of horehound candy at an old fashioned candy store near where I grew up in New Jersey. I've never seen that name in the UK, so never even twigged that it was the same thing as Dandelion and Burdock!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 11:59 AM

"(that would have Dickens purring in his grave)"

you need to read your Dickens, sunshine, before you make outlandish and wildly inaccurate statements like this....purple prose or what!!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:07 PM

Horehound - Marrumbium vulgare - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrubium_vulgare.

I don't think the Traditional English Dandelion & Burdock that quenched many a childhood thirst had much to do with either of its eponymous components. I might still buy a can today actually, chilled, from the corner shop with a quarter of peanut brittle (or whatever metric measure come close). I've a yen for such things; McDonald's was never the same when they stopped serving Root Beer - nothing quite like a Big Mac & Fries washed down with a large slop of what tasted for all the world like liquid Germolene.

I was once told that Dandelion & Burdock was just thing for marinading freshly killed hare. One thing I did used to do was to douse a red hot poker in it, after watching my grandmother doing likewise with her Mackeson's. Nice on a winter's afternoon...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:09 PM

that would have Dickens purring in his grave

I'd actually read that as gravey and didn't bat an eyelid that WAV would have written such a thing!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:15 PM

I think there is a fine but important line between fostering idiosyncracy (or even eccentricity), and promoting mediocrity.


A

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:20 PM

"I think there is a fine but important line between fostering idiosyncracy (or even eccentricity), and promoting mediocrity..."

and encouraging idiocy? *LOL*

"I'd actually read that as gravey and didn't bat an eyelid that WAV would have written such a thing!"

Geez..!! you been readin' too much of WAV's 'poetry' 'ave you?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:35 PM

How much is too much in this instance, I wonder? He does have his admirers though; that said he was roundly sent packing a few days ago for daring to post on the BS: Gardening, 2009 thread - an over-reaction which even I found a tad churlish I must say, and I said as much at the time.

Whatever the case, in matters of idiosyncrasy, eccentricity and idiocy it seems WAV requires little by way of fostering, promotion or indeed encouragement.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 01:40 PM

Prior to 1900 the English concertina was largely a middle class classical instrument. The ordinary folk were playing the Anglo German system.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 01:58 PM

I used to drink Dandelion & Burdock - it's a very "northern" drink. Does anyone else remember Sarsaperilla - known colloquially as "Sasparella"?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:00 PM

I bought som Sarsaparilla cordial (and some dandelion and burdock flavour as well) at Fitzpatrick's Temerance Bar in Rawtenstall when I went to see the Bacup Coco-nutters this year.

Very nice it is, too.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:04 PM

Dandelion and Burdock tastes like medicine IMO - a generic kind of cure-all 'medicine', out of a little brown bottle. Love elderflower cordial or HOT ginger beer though.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:11 PM

Saraparilla, D&B and root beer are all from the same, slightly medicinal family.

I miss root beer.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:20 PM

I've had a PM from a Mudcat member regarding my mention of family letters from Norfolk to Ontario in the 19th century.

If anyone would like to see a snapshot of rural life and rural family life in Norfolk over a period of around 50 years, you'll find some fascinating source material in these letters at:

The Broughton Letters

It doesn't take a lot of imagining or re-imagining - to get the flavour of the times.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:28 PM

I remember one brilliantly sunny Summer Solstice, walking down one of the lanes near Glastonbury Tor and hearing loud music blasting out from around a green corner...

A jolly Nun was perched atop a step ladder gathering heads of Eldeflowers, while trilling brightly away to herself as her car stereo pumped out some rousing mass for many voices.
She explained she was listening to holy music while gathering elderflowers off the holy hill on a holy day, to make elderflower cordial with - she'd already bottled the holy water she needed from the famous springs.
I bet that elderflower cordial had 'medicinal' value, or at least some kind of holy juju.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:28 PM

Sarsaperilla - aka Sasperella, as you say Will - with a big dollop of Wall's vanilla ice cream in there. Sainsbury's used to do a passable Root Beer, maybe they still do... Next time I'm out shopping I'll be on the hunt for such wonders. Watch this space for my consumer report!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:30 PM

I'm about to bottle mine tonight. Lovely stuff - especially with a shot of vodka and some soda water (which isn't very holy).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:37 PM

Suibhne O'Piobaireachd - yes - with Walls ice cream! Do you know, I'd forgotten that combination! Lord, how I hated Walls ice cream blocks - used to make me feel sick.

Now the memories are flooding back... licquorice - as "straps", as "pipes", as tubes. we used to call it "Spanish" (why?). Then there was sherbert in bags, pear drops, "Imps" (very hot and tiny)... aniseed balls (hated them).

It's becoming a Proustian evening...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Banjiman
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:41 PM

I'm just eating Blackjacks and Fruit Salads.... bought while visiting my Mother at the w/e in Lincoln.

The shop had pear drops (bought those as well), liquorice straps (and them), aniseed balls, giant gob stoppers, sherbert bon bons, pineapple cubes.......etc fab it was!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: BB
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 03:34 PM

Flying saucers to you lot! Oh, and lemon sherberts (a version of sherbert bonbons?).

And as a child in Wiltshire, hens were chook-chooks, or chookies.

Barbara

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 03:36 PM

There is no spiritual communion greater than revisiting the sweets we used to eat in our childhood; collectively known as Ket, at least they were in our neck of the woods.

Spanish I remember as the red stuff, though where this name came from I've no idea. Was it branded Spanish? Or was the name folkloric?   

As a fan of vintage Oor Wullie I note that back in the 40s / 50s sugarelly was the sweet of choice; in 60s / 70s reprints this becomes licourice. One story from the 40s features the home manufacture of Sugarelly Water - simply licorice dissolved into water. I've tried this and can't in all honesty recommend it, though a Google search revals an entry in Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarelly

I hope you're taking notes here, WAV - if you fancy meeting up during a lull in the DFP singarounds I'll give a tour of the best sweetshops of the outlying villages. Newhouse General Stores in Esh Winning is especially fine in this respect.

One of the (only) things I like about the Harry Potter books is their enduring fondness for sweets. There is a very passable Honeydukes in The Shambles in York...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 03:53 PM

They was chookie-eggs when I was a sprog *LOL*

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:54 PM

No notes, SO, but I've read everything and intend to try some of the above concoctions, including Dandelion & Burdock; not a big fan of sweets, but I recall going into a corner-shop with school mates (yes, in Australia), and struggling to keep our faces straight as we asked for a Golden Gay-time - ice-cream, on a stick, coated with some kind of crumbs.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:37 PM

Thanks for the poem WAV.

In my daydreams I design the perfect house. I doubt that I will ever build it, because my present house is quite nice and it would be so much work to build the dream house and move into it.

At the moment, the cat is in the dining room, enjoying a patch of sunshine. Birds are singing outside. The air conditioning is humming quietly. Daylilies are in gorgeous bloom on the west side of the house. Tomatoes will soon be ripe. All this in the heart of a liveable city. What more could one ask?

Do you know the poem that starts 'Oh, to have a little house'? It expresses such longing in so few words.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:45 PM

"A proper English village (that would have Dickens purring in his grave), with a proper English pub ..."

Yes, a very odd choice of phrase, that! Dickens was, of course, a Londoner - a city dweller - who probably thought that the countryside was unsophisticated (that's a guess - I haven't really read enough Dickens to know for sure).

I've always been fascinated by fictional models of Britain constructed by people who've never actually been here. You know, Cockneys who get lost on the 'moors' at night before being devoured by werewolves or 'Lords and Ladies' who are obviously modelled on well off Californians, of a few decades ago, and who live in Beverley Hills type mock Tudor mansions with butlers.

These examples are, obviously, American. How novel, for an afficionado like me, to encounter an Australian example! Thanks, Walkabouts Verse!

... Have I ever told you the one about the Ozzy, with the corks on his hat, who subdued the salt water crocodile ('crockys, I think they're called ... or something like that?), that was attacking the guests at his 'barby', by jamming his 'stubby' over its nose?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:47 PM

If Ruth can advertise Sidmouth on another thread can I give a plug for our Dandelion and Burdock(which we had to market as Sasperella in the South)which I am pleased to say appears to be making a comeback and which is especially popular with the younger (under thirties)members of our family.
Among others we make it for Asda, Morrison's and under the Ben Shaw's label; one of our other factories makes Root Beer but just in cans. D&B is far nicer than Root Beer and it used to be a special treat for us kids back in the North East.
BTW well done SOP for explaining the correct way to drink Newcastle Brown Ale (not from the bottle as some Southerners would have you believe) and for giving it its correct name. Newkie is in Cornwall!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:53 PM

I'm afraid I've never really liked the root beer you get at supermarkets in the UK. But there's a shop in Nottingham where you can get A&W, or so my daughter tells me.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:58 PM

I think that probably the smaller village with access to larger cities is the way most of us would prefer to live...I live in a village however that is one block wide and 20 miles long and it doesn't work too well for various aspects of life. mg

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:58 PM

Thanks Leeneia - your "moment" sounds good; I don't know of that poem, though..?
Shimrod - I've actually spent 16 years now living in the country of my birth, England. Dickens cared about people and the conditions they were in, so would he not have been for better conditions in both town and country..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:02 PM

What a thoroughly refreshing thread this is turning out to be; I will be sure to check out the Ben Shaw range on my next visit to ASDA - which could well be tomorrow morning...

A&W? Order it online!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:15 PM

"A proper English village (that would have Dickens purring in his grave), with a proper English pub - overlooking a gently flowing river, licked by weeping willows, and glided upon by mute swans..."

Lovely, Wav.

The willows are kissing the gently flowing river, here in Sidmouth...and the larks are ascending

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 01:52 AM

Ben Shaw's do the best canned pop. The Cream Soda is topper.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 03:19 AM

Isn't mostly vegan a bit like slightly pregnant?

Or is it mostly Vogon?

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 03:58 AM

Sweet tobacco.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 04:53 AM

Stu - At home, I rarely have anything other than vegetable matter (including soya, instead of milk, in my coffee, etc.) but, if out and about, I may have whatever is going; and, speaking of "out and about," Sidmouth seems great, in more ways than one, Lizzie, and I do hope to get there one day..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:10 AM

Poem 206 of 230: MY DIET

Chasing breads, nuts, bananas,
    Red sauce, apples, sultanas,
Crackers, conserves, cucumbers,
    Pickles, porridge, pottages -

Lemon barley,
    Cocoa, coffee,
Or cups of tea.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:28 AM

Almost made it to Sidmouth on our Devon jaunt last month; got as far as Exmouth when the heavens opened driving us into the local Subway (as if we needed an excuse; thank God for Subway I say - where one can be assured of a decent sarnie at a reasonable price without speculating on what local establishments have to offer; long & bitter experience teaches us to stick to the chains!) where we re-drew our battle plan somewhat. So, no Sidmouth - but at least I got to see the celebrated Multiple-orifice Disgorgers in the church at Woodbury en route! And what a place Exeter is, where you can see stuff like THIS at head height! What a happy bunny I was that day...

And I still read that as Dickens purring in in his gravey. I was never a great one for Dickens, whilst I enjoyed elements of The Pickwick Papers in my misspent youth, and The Signalman remains one of my #1 English Ghost Stories of All Time, I find the trashy inhuman sentiments of his novels quite nauseating. I was forced to watch a recent TV adaptation of Oliver Twist the tenor of which struck as the most cynical celebration of social-class apartheid I'd ever seen. In my heart, I was following The Dodger into whatever sort of misadventures awaited him whilst horrid little Oliver gloated in his oasis of privilege. Maybe that's how we're meant to respond, but I doubt it somehow...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:38 AM

The Signalman remains one of my #1 English Ghost Stories of All Time

Indeed! My personal favourite chiller stories are still the ghost stories of MR James, but The Signalman comes close.

Mmm... might have to re-read The Tractate Middoth and Casting The Runes this evening...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 06:01 AM

Maybe I should have qualified that as #1 Favourite TV Adaptations of English Ghost Stories, for whilst Monty knocks Charlie off his perch rather (as far as he was ever one one o course, & I don't think the sentimental Victoriana of a Christmas Carol quite qualifies somehow; give me Le Fanu anyday!) I feel that it's his strengths as a writer have made the various TV adaptations problematic to say the least, much as I love them - not least the recent adaptation of View from a Hill which I found very effective! The exception, of course, is Jonathan Miller's superb adaptation that is Whistle and I'll Come to You which rides as much on Michael Hordern's superlative portrayal of Prof Parkin as it does on the stunning cinematography. Either way, it's a world away from Monty's original somehow...

I've got tapes of Michael Hordern reading the M R James stories which are an absolute delight - the very essence, indeed, of an Englishness which it would seem remains ever elusive to our hapless repatriate!

Now, it's off out in search of Ben Shaw's Dandelion & Burdock - and maybe a can of CS on CS's recommendation...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:36 AM

The Prof. Parkin character's fussiness and (perhaps) repressions were hinted at in a shaded way in James's original text - and used by Miller to give a much more sophisticated and complex reading for the TV adaptation.

I hadn't realised Michael Hordern had done the stories on tape - something else to look out for.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: folk1e
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:38 AM

Eeee, I'h remember t'first day at t'Pit ......


Me an' me father worked a 72 hour shift!
An' we walked home 42 miles in us bare feet!......

Oh yes and waggon wheels were MASSIVE!



Them was the days, eh?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:39 AM

And for those of you who love their sweeties

www.aquarterof.co.uk does nearly all the old favourites (except maltona drops :( )

If you really want a Dickens view of rurality try Pickwick Papers, particularly the cricket match with Dingley Dell

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:46 AM

Thanks for the Hordern/James tapes mention, SO'P - just got them from eBay at a very good price.

As for cricket matches in fiction, it would take a lot to beat the match in England Their England by A.G. MacDonell.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:51 AM

I see to my horror the Michael Hordern readings are no longer available. There's one copy going on Amazon for the princely sum of £29! Worth a look for the review...

Mine haven't turned up yet - a year in Fleetwood & we're still unpacking boxes. When they do, I have a mind to digitise them; I'll keep you posted...

*

Chasing breads, nuts, bananas,
    Red sauce, apples, sultanas,
Crackers, conserves, cucumbers,
    Pickles, porridge, pottages -

Basically, Kellog's Fruit & Fibre then, WAV?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:56 AM

I see to my horror the Michael Hordern readings are no longer available. There's one copy going on Amazon for the princely sum of £29! Worth a look for the review...

Found 'em on eBay for $20 AUS incl. postage - can't be bad!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:57 AM

Excellent, Will! When I was living in Brancepeth Castle a decade ago we used to have MH reading the quote from the beginning of Rats as our answer-phone message!

Thing is, when I read Monty James I'm in a different mental place to when I listen to MH reading them. How does that work I wonder?

My MH favourite, as I recall, is The Uncommon Prayer Book - a stunning & often hilarious performance...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 08:06 AM

I love An Episode Of Cathedral History because it's told by an old man about the days when he was a boy - so it gives us both the boy's perspective, but with the subsequent knowledge of the older man.

The description of the freed demon with red eyes roaming the close at night while the local men panick - all watched from the viewpoint of the boy from his bedroom window (clutching his dog) - is one those brrr moments when you want to be tucked up safe and cosy by the fire with the lights down low!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 09:42 AM

So then... once we've determined the gender of the clog-dancers and made significant improvements to the Pub Menu (a Wetherspoons franchise would be more than acceptable) and replaced those Salix sepulcralis with some proper English riverside trees (Salix fragilis I remember well from my BTCV days) The re-Imagine Village would have to have a haunted church, quite possibly an old abby, like Dore Abby, which we visited a few times whilst staying near Vowchurch in Herefordshire a couple of years ago. Whether Dore Abby has a resident demon I couldn't possibly say, but we visited the nearby Templar church at Garway which recently featured in an episode of the woeful (but mildly entertaining inspite of itself) Bonekickers (2008) as well as Phil Rickman's thoroughly splendid novel The Fabric of Sin (2007) which touches upon a real life incident in the life of M R James of which he wrote in a letter to a friend We must have offended somebody or something at Garway... Next time we shall know better. Oo-er... In any case, if you don't know Phil Rickman's Merrily Watkins Novels yet, and you've a yen for cracking English detective fiction that reads like an episode of the Vicar of Dibley has somehow morphed into Cracker (as someone said) shot through with a supporting cast folk singers, pagan teenage daughters, charming rustics, assorted ghosts and other bucolic delights - not to mention the heroine herself, a young single-mum woman priest who finds herself the Diocesan Exorcist for Hereford Cathedral - then check 'em out!

'An absolute treat... essential reading for anyone with a special interest in MR James's place in the supernatural pantheon.'   Ghosts & Scholars M R James Newsletter.

'It's Midsomer Murders on hallucinogens and it can only be a matter of time before it hits the small screen, so get in there first, folks.'    Irish Times

'Nail-biting, yet thoughtful and complex. What T.S. Eliot did for Canterbury Cathedral, Rickman does for Hereford.'   Jane Jakeman, Shotsmag.

'God alone knows, no English Village, imagined, re-imagined or otherwise, would be complete with some resident horrors residing in the wainscoting...' Suibhne O'Piobaireachd, Mudcat.

*

Further to Monty & Ebay - I bought an original 1908 edition of his paper on The Sculptured Bosses of the Bauchin Chapel of Our Lady in Norwich Cathedral off ebay for £5 a few months back.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 09:50 AM

Some of that sounds good, SO, and some, frankly, I wouldn't have a clue! about; as for "fibre," I shall detail my "pottages" shortly...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 11:09 AM

And having discarded as entirely bogus our E. Flutes and E. Concertinas, what then for music would we listen to in our re-Imagined Village? Well, mostly today I've been listening to some vintage vinyl featuring the music composed by Peter Maxwell Davis for his ensemble The Fires of London. Does it get any more English than that? Fair enough, he drew much of his inspiration, then as now, from his Orkney Island home, but in such works as Eight Songs for a Mad King where the tortured ravings of George III are set in a cycle of deeply affecting songs I detect a quintessential Englishness. Some of this stuff, I believe, has even made it to CD - so - do check it out, WAV; you might well find it in your local library...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:09 PM

For quintessential Englishness, try:

this

this

or

this

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Jul 09 - 05:58 PM

1 - Maybe; born in '61 this stuff is the Cultural Ambience of my childhood.

2 - Essential! Weirdly I was thinking about this very scene earlier this evening.

3 - Oh yes. And moreover:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbCaa2Dm420

Again, are you taking notes, WAV?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 03:58 AM

And this... Incident On Snake Pass

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:40 AM

What is it with Snake Pass? We had some fun there on a tour a few years back getting from Sheffield to Liverpool... There must be an easier way!

Anyway, I think that serves as a more than adequate introduction to the work of our man Shuttleworth. I could well imagine him as the entertainer in the imaginary pub in our re-Imagined Village, though already I'm thinking canals rather than gently flowing rivers. This doesn't preclude the sort of bucolic picturesque idealism WAV yearns for however - for example, not far from Fleetwood, we have the re-Imagined Village that is Guy's Thatched Hamlet which I'm sure would tick all the right boxes (gliding mute swans and all) and still be the ideal venue for Mr Shuttleworth! Take the Virual Tour...

Meanwhile, if I was in charge of booking the entertainment maybe I'd go for something a little more uniquely home-grown with respect of Quintessential Englishness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H-td43zcQg

*

Otherwise, something English, Quintessential, and Very Special Indeed. We will, I fear, never see his like again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACm2wGbpu4A

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:44 AM

As I've said, Ed, The Beatles were very good at copying an aspect of American culture, rather than getting stuck into their own good English folk music - as, of course, quite a few other English did during the folk-revival of the 60s.

This may not be Shuttleworth's culinary fancy, but to shed some light on the fibre/pottages issue above...

Poem 93 of 230: ONE-POT COOKING

While living as a bachelor,
    I've cooked in just one pot -
Cast iron with a wooden handle,
    It can hold quite a lot:

Slices of potato and carrot
    Are boiled a while,
Before a thinly-chopped onion
    Is mixed with the pile;

Then I drain off most of the water,
    Add canned lentils and beans,
Stir with spice and tomato sauce -
    To an end, it's a means.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)

PS: of late it's even simpler - cup of soup, beans, lettuce/cucumber, diced onion, plus toast.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:00 AM

And talking of Viv and Sir Henry, who might the Morris Men be at 1:09 in Viv Stanshall's week: 3?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:13 AM

Re: "the re-Imagined Village that is Guy's Thatched Hamlet" (SO)...canny website, and, yes, I'd be quite happy at that outdoor table with a glass of mead, or, indeed, in that houseboat with a pair of clogs!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:33 AM

In part three of Vivian Stanshall's week (at around 1.02) one can see an unnamed Morris Side, complete with Hobby Horse, dancing in Paddington Station before heading off down The Underground. Viv looks on delighted, of course, blowing them kisses as they depart!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0U1AeS5Cow

In part two (at 6.00) we see Viv visiting instrument maker Michael Lynch who made Jake Walton's wee hudry-gurdy as featured on Times and Traditions for Dulcimer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3RVr1f9abM

*

Interestingly, or not, whilst submitting a friend request to Wigan Folk Club earlier this very morning I see our Hapless Repatriate left them the same calling card in their comments box on the 27th June 2009 as he did on the 6th of Feb 2008. Methinks perhaps some new material is in order, WAV - not least your above line about The Beatles copying an aspect of American culture which is about as accurate as your notions of their own good English folk music.

We don't have any good (i.e. real) English folk music, rather we have the results of two highly specialised and agenda driven revivals of something that might not have existed in the first place. In this respect what The Beatles did is of greater Cultural Authenticity in terms of Cultural Migration & Transfiguration than anything produced by either of the 20th century Folk Revivals, especially with respect to the socio-economic context of Folk Music as perceived to have existed in the first instance. Its collection was selective, biased, and subject to endless improvement on the part of the collectors. Thus Revival Folk Music is The Imagined Village; it only exists by dint of its gauche & pedantic self-consciousness wherein the change & mutability enshrined by Maud Karpeles in her 1954 Definition becomes, as a consequence, fossilised by those seeking to somehow preserve it terms of material evidence for a process they freely admit is no longer taking place. In this respect I'd say what The Beatles were part of is of greater folkloric significance than anything we might encounter in either of the 20th Century so-called Folk Revivals and is, therefore, more deserving of being Their Own Good Folk Music.

Now, back to Part Three of Vivian Stanshall's Week....

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:34 AM

Cross post on that one, Will! Hopefully someone will provide the answer!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:47 AM

Beaux of London City Morris Men.

And Mongezi Feza...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:09 AM

This my idea of England - in particular

http://www.england-in-particular.info/

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:06 AM

Yup, their Green Man Page just about sums it up -

The Green Man is alive and well and can be found all over the country... You may know him as the Green Knight or Robin Hood, you will still see him around May Day as Jack in the Green, in Mumming plays and Morris dancing and maybe as the Green George, a relative of St George...

In parish churches and cathedrals look for him as a leafy head in roof bosses... misericords and bench ends...

However you see him, as a benign spirit, guardian of the female forests, symbol of new life and hope in spring, a signifier of regeneration, you will feel his presence in our ancient woods and forests... He has been our cultural companion for millennia, reminding us of our close relationship with nature...

Happily, such bullshit is by way of post-modern fakelore. Unhappily, it has become the all-prevailing orthodoxy as the true wonders of The Green Man are overlooked. Whatever the case - and whatever you might wish to call them - the Green Man carvings are in no way, shape or form unique to England, and predate by some centuries any folkloric associations (pub names, Jacks-in-the-Green etc.) only very recently imagined: in academia 1939; in popular culture around 1970.

This is the Fakelore of The re-Imagined Village; in the church adjoining our waterside village pub (perhaps our fake pub is called The Green Man, after that in The Wicker Man?) we might gaze in wonder at the tortured disgorging features of the foliate heads carved on the bench-ends (such as we see HERE: Benchend, 1534, The Church of the Holy Ghost, Crowcombe, Somerset, 13th June 2009) only to be told by the helpful imaginary guide sheet that we are, in fact, seeing a benign spirit, guardian of the female forests, symbol of new life and hope in spring, a signifier of regeneration etc. etc..

In The re-Imagined Village, Frazerian perspectives of Folklore are of greater importance to the Anglican Church than the theology of the faith they superseded, in which case it no surprise to find that the master-carver of the above linked image has been so keen to leave us the date of its execution! In The re-Imagined Village, the wayward & often hilarious perceptions of our Hapless Repatriate are often no more wayward & hilarious than those of the natives with whom he seeks to assimilate. Like Folk Music however, Folklore is just as illusory...

Now for an imaginary glass of Dandelion & Burdock. Phew! What a scorcher!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 08:54 AM

"Yup, their Green Man Page just about sums it up"


No, it doesn't, actually. If you could get over yourself and curb your unmitigated arrogance for long enough to see the whole picture, rather than your short-sighted view, you would realise that it is about celebrating the diversity of England in its entirety – the commonplace, the local, the vernacular and the distinctive. The book, England-In-Particular, has been compiled by contributors who know far, far more about England than you ever will, despite your pseudo-intellectual and self-congratulatory ranting and pontificating. But, hey, why let the facts get in the way of your prejudices?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:22 AM

But, hey, why let the facts get in the way of your prejudices?

Wind in your neck, TL - and for your information those are facts, unlike the unsubstantiated bollocks promoted over at England in Particular. In any case, as I say, there is nothing particularly English (or even British) about so-called Green Men - ecclesiastical, folkloric or otherwise. Fact. Even the carvings that inspired Lady Raglan's wayward Green Man thesis are in Wales.

As for celebrating the diversity of England in its entirety, as an English person born and bred, when I find myself looking upon such a sight with a crippling sense of utter & absolute alienation I might question the nature of the diversity thus espoused. Have a look at the alphabet - the pics in which are either Shaftesbury or Covent Garden! Hardly a celebration of diversity - cultural, ethnic, regional, historical or otherwise.

Not my England at all I'm afraid...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 09:37 AM

I think the idea of the ABC is capture a hint of the typographical diversity of a given area in the hope it might provide a hint of the character of the area, or give some oblique insight into the way a specific area of human habitation has evolved. I've seen similar things done with phone boxes, manhole covers and pairs of trainers dangling from phone lines and each one is a celebration of a very particular cultural location; the deposition of one minute part of the cultural strata.

Does it capture that particular area? In a way it does but then I'm a graphic designer and these things interest me; the subtle cultural undercurrents and eddy's ever-present and ever-changing that seem lost in the stream of information we absorb (or otherwise) as it enters our visual cortex and thence our subconscious.

If any of us have ever walked down Shaftesbury Avenue or pottered around Covent Garden chances are we've seen one of these letters and that makes them very much a part of our England.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:06 AM

"and for your information those are facts"

Well, I couldn't comment on that as, unlike you, I don't pretend to be an expert on that particular subject. I assume that you have read the England-In-Particular book - or are you, like the literary critic who writes a review of a novel after reading only the first page, basing your opinion purely on your own prejudices and assumptions? If ignorance is bliss, you must be a very happy person. Or perhaps you are also an 'expert' on apples, crinkle crankle walls, power stations, diwali or all the other many subjects covered by the book.

Whether this is your cup of tea or not is, quite frankly, immaterial to me. My purpose was to tell people who may be interested in such things that there is an interesting and ejoyable book that celebrates a real England that is far more interesting and diverse than the stereotypical view put forward by the OP.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 10:53 AM

that is far more interesting and diverse than the stereotypical view put forward by the OP.

I've never read - or even heard of - the book, but from the website I'd say they have as stereotypically erroneous a vision of Englishness as WAV. In my own area of specialism - i.e. The Green Man - I can say they are way off the mark, however so well-in with the erroneous orthodoxy which, at a very generous stretch, only goes back as far as 1939 with most of the thinking on the subject coming in after 1970. Again, what I say here isn't by way of prejudice or assumption, rather the hard & unrelenting facts of the matter which do not support the folkloric / pagan hypothesis no matter deeply entrenched in the popular imagination this might have become in the last twenty-five years or so. Just as Ring-a-Rosies isn't a reportage on the symptoms of the Black Death and The Allendale Tar Barrels aren't a survival of a pagan fire festival, so the Green Man is none of the things England in Particular say it is.

Otherwise - I like power stations too, be they coal-fired, nuclear, wind powered or whatever. Blyth A & B was a particular favourite - for my personal paean on her sorry demise see HERE. I didn't see any indication of power stations on the England in Particular website though, much less any reflection of England as a multi-ethnic country, such as your mention of diwali would indicate. Perhaps you might be so good as to provide links if I've overlooked them? Otherwise, I will look out for the book - God knows I could do with some light relief after slowly picking my way through Bob Trubshaw's Explore Folklore this past month or so.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Frozen Gin (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:08 AM

"yes, I'd be quite happy at that outdoor table with a glass of mead, or, indeed, in that houseboat with a pair of clogs"

I really feel that this walking stereotype is yanking our chains. This England has never existed and never will exist, except in the minds of dreamers and xenophobes.

As one of my children is wont to say, England has so many colours it makes Crayola jealous.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:22 AM

My very real village, is full of vast black 4x4's, forty/fifty-sumthing wannabe 'posh spice' styled women (dyed dark-brown and wearing big black sunglasses), estates of faux-classical executive houses (one where the old sports field & kiddies swings used to be...), and a few actually rather lovely but private woodlands (a massive faux-Tudor mansion was built in one some years back - with Dobermans and security gates and all).

Needless to say, I'm increasingly itchy to move to my own idyllic imaginary village in Suffolk with woods & fields you can ramble through, a fantasy English pub that serves chips with everything and has make-believe Aspall cider on tap - even a folk club with imaginary fusty smelly old people would be quite nice...

In certain circumstances, escapism into romantic nonny-nonny land, is perhaps forgivable SO'P?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:34 AM

"Perhaps you might be so good as to provide links if I've overlooked them?"

Sorry, you'll have to buy the book. This volume was partly the idea of my old friend, Roger Deakin, who was also the co-founder of Common Ground, who published it, and was also a contributor to the book. Roger, who sadly died in 2006, was one of the best modern writers on the countryside and has been compared to Richard Jefferies and Willam Cobbett. Deatils of his work, legtacy and an insight into his thinking and personality can be found here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/roger-deakin-412989.html

and here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2006/aug/29/guardianobituaries.environment

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:35 AM

legtacy = legacy

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:50 AM

"an English person born and bred"

Oh really? with a name like Suibhne O'Piobaireachd you must REALLY be proud to be English, so keep YOUR bollocks to yourself!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM

Oh yeah, we now have a beauty parlor, where the dear dusty old shambolic grocers used to be. Fences going up enclosing all the footpaths. The farm shop up the road has been shut down, because the crooked Tory council deemed it an 'eyesore', but at least we have a spanking new health club with sauna & wine bar!!

Though rather mysteriously, we still don't have any of those funny looking Johnny Foreigner types spoiling everything 'English'.

I think I'm deffo off for a jaunt in escapist imaginary village land... Where's my trusty Enid Blyton?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:01 PM

This thread has by now surely earned a trip downstairs.

BS it is

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:07 PM

"BS it is"

Then don't take part:-)

Charlie (a short form of my first name)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

We're lucky that in our village we still have a varied cross-section of people, from young families to old folks in sheltered accommodation and everything in between. Most of the villagers live in modest dwellings and there is a big vicarage opposite the church (the jazz festival is held on the vicarage lawn each year). we do have some posh people but most of the parish is arable land that goes as far as the moors of the peak district.

No village green as such, and the rivers (complete with Dippers and brown trout) don't go close to the pubs. So not quite WAV's vision of an English village but at least it's real.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

Guy's is a good example of a purpose built imitation pub/pizza parlour. Can't remember just when building commenced - I think around 1980.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 12:49 PM

In certain circumstances, escapism into romantic nonny-nonny land, is perhaps forgivable SO'P?

Forgiveable? I think it should be mandatory, CS - hence my contribution to & encouragement of this thread. Vivian Stanshall was the Greatest English Dreamer of them all!

Oh really? with a name like Suibhne O'Piobaireachd you must REALLY be proud to be English

Thing is, Rifleman - although sadly Suibhne O'Piobaireachd is only a pseudonym, like a lot of other English people my real name isn't particularly English-sounding either, though I am English, as I say, born and bred, and quite proud of the fact too. Obviously this creates a problem regarding the limits of Englishness, because although I say it's not an English-sounding name, being Irish Gaelic, it is my name nevertheless, so an English name by default I'd say.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 01:24 PM

SO'P: I must admit to finding your current ID just way beyond my polite inclinations to even attempt to spell correctly. So in my head, I tend to think of you in terms of your previous explanation of SO'P as "Mad Bird King" (something I can spell without trouble.)

The shortened SO'P, also means something akin to 'wet and floppy', thus not generally a 'good' thing? Not too sold on the current ID.. Hmmmm.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:10 PM

Not too sold on the current ID.. Hmmmm.

Thing is, CS - I can't change my Mudcat ID again because I've been threatened with violent expulsion if I do. So this is it - for keeps - so - suggest you resort to cut & paste. It doesn't even make good anagrams, apart from the vaguely topical (by otherwise nonsensical) A Cabbie Horehound I Sip. So Horehound I'll accept, but only from you!

Suibhne was the Mad Bird King; Piobaireachd is the classical music of the highland bagpipes that used to blow my mind in childhood & still does to this day. Hugely inspirational on my musical concept in terms of duration, improvisation, droning modality and disconcerting eventlessness. So I see the name in Shamanic / Gnostic terms: Human Bird Trips out to the Great Music.

Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG42CtJmOjE

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM

The "Green Man" entry in the book England in Particular (which I've got on my knee as I type) treats the Green Man, Jack in the Green and the Green Knight as different things, doesn't refer to Lady Raglan and does point out that "green men" can be found in a lot of different countries. It's got definite "pagan survival" leanings, but it's actually pretty cautious. Closing quote:

"THe tree in its deciduous forms symbolises the cycle of death and rebirth, re-enacted each year as leaves fall and grow again. The Green Man has emerged in our time as a symbol of reconnection with nature, of regeneration and hope."

(Note the words "in our time".)

Great book. It's not academically rigorous, but it's not fakelore either.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) (S O'P)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 03:04 PM

So we've reached the point of near total post-modern abstraction where even the very trees have become symbolic of wishy-washy notions of death and rebirth!

Thanks, Pip, but I think I'll pass on that one. Forgive me, I suddenly feel the need to get very drunk indeed!

I'm going to form a band called The re-Imagined Village People; membership open to all but I'm gonna be The Cowboy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c49jHz1M9nM

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 04:22 PM

Ahhh...death and rebirth, eh?(reaches for well-thumbed copy of The White Goddess and another glass of wine.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:16 PM

I think the idea of leaf-fall as emblematic of death, & leaf growth of rebirth, is rather older than post-modernism - and I don't see much that's wishy-washy about it. But everyone's got gout.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 05:52 PM

Well folks - what exactly is a village, and what exactly is rural?

I returned from a music weekend on Sunday and dropped my fellow musician off at his house in Surrey: down a quiet country lane, into an even smaller country lane, then down a rutted track to his house in the middle of nowhere, which was surrounded by lawns and woods. Deer, badgers, streams, kingfishers, grass snakes... Right underneath a Gatwick flight path and not 10 minutes from the airport.

I then travelled on down for 30 minutes to my village: long High Street, couple of housing estates, 3 churches, 2 banks, 6 pubs, two small supermarkets, hardware shop, library, dry-cleaners/launderette, 2 bakers, greengrocers, post office, newsagent, fire station (no police station) village hall, 2 charity shops, 2 opticians, off-licence, barbers, 3 hairdressers, forge, 3 commons, 3 football pitches & one club, cricket pitch & club, used car dealers, petrol station...

Out of my house, turn right and I'm in the High Street in one minute flat. Turn left and I'm in fields for as far as the eye can see in 15 seconds flat. We call this a village - but is it your idea of a village, I wonder?

What got my goat about the Countryside Alliance's pronouncements at the time of the foxhunting debate was the simplistic and fatuous differentiation between "their" countryside" and the "townees" in the city. Black and white was all they could see - and there are immense areas of grey.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:09 PM

"What got my goat about the Countryside Alliance's pronouncements at the time of the foxhunting debate was the simplistic and fatuous differentiation between "their" countryside" and the "townees" in the city. Black and white was all they could see - and there are immense areas of grey."

There certainly are! I live in one of the UK's major cities and for my retirement project I'm trying to catalogue all of our local plantlife. I've found around 500 species, so far, within a half day's walk of my house. I am only 4 miles from the city centre but there is rather a lot of open space around here and mid-week I can easily reach areas of fields and hedgerows and walk for miles and hardly see a soul. Yesterday I found a species that I had been looking for growing by the side of a motorway slip-road. I suspect that many cities are, in fact, more biodiverse than some areas of 'real' countryside - particularly those that are intensively farmed.
Socially, too, the suburb that I live in has always had a village feel (we've even got a village green!) and everyone knows everyone else (with all of the advantages and disadvantages that that implies).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 06:54 PM

I'll second that. I'm off on my bike to work and there's Shimmy botanising away... all good stuff and all part of making city life more palatable.

Suibhne, can I be the construction worker?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 02 Jul 09 - 07:04 PM

I dare Horehound (nee SO'P) to go down my local Green Man with it's new-age/pagan bullshit about same all over the menu without nevertheless being quite bought and corrupted by their obviously English Haggis on French..

I mean: Haggis on French bread with baked beans in a pub called the Green Man - just how more English do you want ffs!?

Whatever the provenance, it feels pretty English when I do it anyway. Though I do tend to drink cheap New World Wine.

But then they do have an excellent pub garden where everything 'feels' English, whatever....

Anyway, what about all those bloody aweful foriegnrs crapping eveything up? Can't evern get a proper British Tikka nowadays!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 02:14 AM

"Haggis on French" - yum! My local does excellent pub grub of the usual variety - steak & kid, fish & chips, etc. It also does a wonderful vegetarian balti - and a full tapas menu. And it does it very well. I drop in two or three times week, around 5pm, for an hour and half of ribaldry and chat in the Old Gits corner.

I run a session there once a month. We have an excellent jazz, rag and blues guitarist, a friend who plays all sorts on mandolin and guitar, a woman who plays and sings John Prine and country classics, a young couple where he plays fiddle tunes from all over Europe and backs his very talented young wife on guitar when she sings her 1930s torch songs, a chap who plays traditional English tunes on flute and whistles... and we all muck in and sing and play what we can. We're now starting to get locals coming in just to listen to us.

Yes - we'll have a clog dancer or two, and anyone else, if they want to join in - but this is our village here and now, and I wouldn't want it to be re-imagined any differently.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:15 AM

excellent pub grub of the usual variety - steak & kid, fish & chips, etc

After all the Wicker Man refs, I had to read that twice...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:25 AM

Ah well, we have some rough practices out here in the heart of Olde England...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:41 AM

Apples! There has to be apples - proper English apples with wonderful names like Cat's Head, D'Arcy Spice, Martin's Custard (now sadly lost) Ribston Pippin (a reet Yorkshire apple and the parent of the Cox), Peasgood's Nonsuch and Tydeman's Late Orange.

You can stuff your Pink Ladies (if you'll pardon the expression) and your other tasteless imports.

(What a wonderfully diverse thread this is turning into.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:47 AM

Sounds like a great session Will; Where is it? (pm would be fine). I could fancy a visit sometime. Are players of middle eastern instruments (via Italy and the USA) welcome? (Mandolins, of course!)
Tim

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:01 AM

I have large apple tree in my front garden - Crawley Beauty - an old Sussex apple. Heavenly flavour.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:21 AM

A great dual pupose apple, Will, which makes it good an excellent cottage garden variety. I have a James Grieve for the same reason - sharp and good for cooking early September (before the Bramley) and sweeter and perfect for eating with cheese (Wensleydale for preference) later on.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:23 AM

I have a bird sown crab apple in the back garden and a wee apple in the front, gifted from one of the local orchards. Not sure of the type, but my fella says they're the best apples he's eaten.

We're well past it now, but one of my fave things to do is wander through the blossoming apple orchards under a full Moon. Those aenemic blossoms are very enchanting.
And since we're Wicker Manning it - still have fond memories of a friend of mine singing this Wiccan song one May Day in the middle of one of our blossoming apple orchards, just before dawn:

THE WITCH'S BALLAD

Oh, I have been beyond the town,
Where nightshade black and mandrake grow,
And I have heard and I have seen
What righteous folk would fear to know!

For I have heard, at still midnight,
Upon the hilltop far, forlorn,
With note that echoed through the dark,
The winding of the heathen horn.

And I have seen the fire aglow,
And glinting from the magic sword,
And with the inner eye beheld
The Horned One, the Sabbat's lord.

We drank the wine, and broke the bread,
And ate it in the Old One's name.
We linked our hands to make the ring,
And laughed and leaped the Sabbat game.

Oh, little do the townsfolk reck,
When dull they lie within their bed!
Beyond the streets, beneath the stars,
A merry round the witches tread!

And round and round the circle spun,
Until the gates swung wide ajar,
That bar the boundries of earth
From faery realms that shine afar.

Oh, I have been and I have seen
In magic worlds of Otherwhere.
For all this world may praise or blame,
For ban or blessing nought I care.

For I have been beyond the town,
Where meadowsweet and roses grow,
And there such music did I hear
As worldly-rightous never know.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 04:34 AM

Many years ago, the local orchard/farm shop owner held an annual "apple howling" night in the orchard. Various chants and songs were song, with processions, to promote the future harvest, appease the gods, and cider of the best sort was drunk, all by torchlight.

Sadly, all no more - orchard sold, and farm shop and barn is now a gated private house.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:07 AM

Crow Sister, that is a wonderful song - I wonder what the tune was.

Will, the answer to the grubbing up of orchards is for people to plant their own apple trees - even if it's just a couple of compatible ones on dwarfing rootstock. There are suppliers around who still have many of the old varieties that just aren't commercially viable but taste amazing.

I planted a small orchard of half a dozen apples, a greengage and a damson, a quince and a couple of hazels and it is (after 7 tears) incredibly productive. Plus, of course, the blossom is as enjoyable as the fruit and it's also just a delightful place to go and sit, night and day.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:12 AM

it is (after 7 tears) incredibly productive

Your tears must have blessed it! :-)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:20 AM

Rightly it's actually a poem by Doreen Valiente poem, and I can't recall the tune the singer sang it to! It was quite slow and sombre. I must endevour to get the tune off her, but haven't seen her in yonks..

"Seven tears"? Sound like an orchard of fairytale apple trees...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:34 AM

still have fond memories of a friend of mine singing this Wiccan song one May Day in the middle of one of our blossoming apple orchards, just before dawn:

This is weirdly reminiscent of a scene in one of Phil Rickman's Merrily Watkin's novels where Merrily's pagan daughter has a run in with something weird lurking midst the apple blossoms. Not sure which one it was though...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:35 AM

Seven tears! Shed by eyes for the days when they could see properly.(Actually, they never could!)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:45 AM

Seven Tears

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:51 AM

Ed, that is truly awful LOL!!!!!

BTW, when the middle backing singer did the splits it brought a tear to my eye (and probably to his).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 05:56 AM

And where there are apples, might there also be cheese? I enjoy an Orange Pippin with Cotherstone, or even Stilton, depending on my mood, though since emigrating to Lancashire I'm discovering the delights of Lancashire Cheese in all its various strengths & potencies. Bowland is a special treat I can recommend to anyone, anywhere, without reservation...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:00 AM

It's a very unemphatic splits - he takes his time over it and nobody else pays much attention. You could almost believe it was accidental - "hang on, lads, my legs are going! I'm going down, I'm going down! ow! give us a hand up someone!"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:01 AM

Bowland is wonderful, and even the very name is evocative, reminding me of cycling trips and picnics by the weather. A pity that so much of the Forest of Bowland is fenced off by landowners.

Anyway, SO'P - thanks for the tip - the postman has just delivered the cassette set of Michael Hordern reading Monty. And I'm in the ancient Volvo today - with its equally ancient radio/cassette player, so I'll be able to enjoy the delights along the A27...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:04 AM

"weather" should be "water" - doh!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:05 AM

"Apple pie without the cheese is like a kiss without a squueze."

Lancashire is fine but (of course) the perfect cheese is a good Wensleydale, paired with a Ribston Pippin. http://www.wensleydale.co.uk/realwensleydale.html

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:08 AM

Or a Sussex Duddleswell ewe's milk cheese paired with a Crawley Beauty apple (and a pint of Harveys).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:10 AM

"It's a very unemphatic splits - he takes his time over it and nobody else pays much attention. You could almost believe it was accidental"

Not so much 'tears' - more 'tears', as in 'hernia'!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 07:20 AM

since emigrating to Lancashire I'm discovering the delights of Lancashire Cheese in all its various strengths & potencies

For a long time I was looking for a British equivalent of the Turkish "tulum peyniri" ("bagpipe cheese"), transported and sold in a sheep or goat skin with the hair still on - it's the cheese you want for doing pide (a split roll cooked like pizza with a cheese filling). Different packaging, but Lancashire is basically the same thing.

The best cheese market I've seen anywhere was in Trabzon, hundreds of local variants, a lot of them this Lancashire type.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 07:52 AM

sold in a sheep or goat skin with the hair still on

Sounds cool but you'd never get away with it over here with our nannying H&S considerations where even farm produced cheese comes out of sterile stainless-steel antiseptically clean laboratories. So much for our re-Imagined Village!

Ever tried any Human Cheese?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 08:37 AM

There may be a historical connection. The place with the highest reputation for bagpipe cheese today is Erzincan, in north-east Anatolia a bit southwest of Trabzon, but the stuff travels very well and could have originated or been taken up a few hundred miles away a few millenia ago.

In Neal Ascherson's book "Black Sea" he describes how the Romans garrisoned the Ribble Valley with troops from the northern Caucasus who spoke an Iranian language most closely related to present-day Ossetian - and as far as anybody knows, they stayed there. So the cheese recipe and the culture organisms that make it happen could have travelled with them to Lancashire, and to northern Anatolia with the Armenians. Cheese is one of the handiest provisions for an army on the move, particularly when it comes in such effective packaging.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 08:52 AM

"Ever tried any Human Cheese?"

I'm not even looking at that link. There used to be a shop called The Bell End Cheese Shop in Macclesfield.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:04 AM

Well thanks for that, chaps. From now on I will never eat cheese again. Tongue sandwich anyone?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:10 AM

Black Sea" he describes how the Romans garrisoned the Ribble Valley with troops from the northern Caucasus who spoke an Iranian language most closely related to present-day Ossetian - and as far as anybody knows, they stayed there.

I hope WAV is reading this! So - here I am, regularly accompanying my singing of Lancastrian folk songs (if The Molecatcher qualifies as a uniquely Lancastrian Folk Song!) with my Black Sea Fiddle whilst sustaining my energies with an ancient cheese recipe deriving from those of the ancient Black Sea soldiers who were so taken by the beauteous splendours of The Ribble they hung around. You see - now it all makes perfect sense!   

There used to be a shop called The Bell End Cheese Shop in Macclesfield.

A little investigation takes us to The Macc Lads Macculture A to Z where we find the following: Bell End Cheddar - When Hectic House* closed down, and before it was knocked down, the Lads redecorated it, putting this sign on the front. Old ladies were heard moaning: "Tut! That bloody cheese shop is never bloody open!"

*A record shop, record label, management company and where the Lads lived. The building stood on Sunderland St from 1790 until its remains were demolished after a party in 1993.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:31 AM

"I hope WAV is reading this!" (SO) - yes: never eat cheese (although I've read it's "the perfect food" in more than one book); occasionally have an apple; advocate growing native (apart from vegetables, fruits and other consumables - to limit food miles, etc.) plants to help native fauna...

SUMMARY OF NATIVE-GARDENING TALK – 2009 THEORY-SLAM GIG

Green/eco-friendly gardening is native gardening, and vegetables, plus other consumables, should be the only exotic-flora we plant - as doing so can help limit food-miles, etc. By filling our other garden spaces with natives, we use less water and other resources, whilst aiding the native-fauna that, over the centuries, evolved with them. (Even high-nectar exotics, such as Buddleia, that are very attractive to SOME native-fauna, should be avoided, because they upset nature's/God's balance – God created evolution, too, that is.)

Our green gardens, with their vegies and natives, can be made still greener by the addition of compost heaps/bins; a wildlife pond – for native frogs, newts, and so on, rather than exotic goldfish; bee- and bird-boxes, plus carefully- selected feeders; rain- and grey-water vats; by growing everything organically - including thrifty home-propagation plus species-swapping; and by leaving some lush untidy patches, decaying branches, etc. (from here ).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 09:51 AM

Cheese and apples....mmmmm...try Leigh Toaster, a mature Lancashire, with a Russet apple straight off the tree. Mature Lancashire is a very different cheese to the unripe, crumbly stuff you get in supermarkets.
Tim

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:01 AM

Well found SO'P - I never knew they still merited enough interest to warrant a web site. The thing about Bell End Cheddar (funny how I got the name wrong - I must have gone past the shop hundreds of times on the bus; they always put rude signs in the upper windows of the building) was how long it was there before most people noticed what it really meant.

I used to work in the printers where the cassette covers were printed for the Macc Lads albums and Mutley McLad (he actually went to the posh boys school in the town) was a pretty astute businessman as far as I was always concerned. It was all a bit funny until some racist stuff crept in (in an effort to shock as the joke was wearing thin by this point) and I lost what little interest I had in them.

The shop is still there: I think it's a lingerie shop now.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:19 AM

because they upset nature's/God's balance – God created evolution, too, that is.)

Whilst I'm prepared to find a lovely old Medieval Parish Church in our re-Imagined Village with many of its original features remaining intact over the centuries (roof-bosses, bench-ends, misericords, rood screen, column capitals etc. etc.), and whilst I'd be more than happy with a Merrily Watkins type vicar (single mum with a folk-singer lover and troublesome pagan daughter) I would hope the spiritual life of our imaginary community would be founded on principles of Humanism and tolerance. Which is to say, any talk of God or any other Religious Construct would be restricted to within the church, and even then at specific times for service, communion etc. so as not to offend any non-religious who are visiting said church for more practical reasons. Anyone coming out with unmutual clap-trap along the lines of God created evolution too, that is would be forced to spend the day in the extant 16th century village stocks (by the Victorian lych-gate) and be liberally pelted with the overripe produce of the local market gardeners until he, or indeed she, saw the error of their ways.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:31 AM

I think our re-imagined village should definitely have a village lock-up a la the one below. My mates Dad was the last person to be banged up in it one New Years Eve. As you'll see it's in handy distance of the Church...

Village Lock-Up 1700

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:45 AM

Can we have a dotty elderly lady herbalist who lives in a muddle of a cottage with a huge overgrown garden filled with herbs - that we can re-imagine is a 'witch?'?

Down the road from me there was a very ancient lady like this, that an Aunt visited for herbs to help heal her up after her appendix opp. Not a pentagram in sight of course so no scent of "Paganism", but after meeting her, my Aunt reckoned the lady was a 'witch' (in the most pragmatic and ancient of village traditions.)

If we're having teenage Pagans, I want a proper village herbalist/witch in my re-imagined village too...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:52 AM

Would you settle for a mad cat woman?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 10:58 AM

Already got my name down for that position Manitas, though I might need just a couple more decades of practice before I can rightfully claim it.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 11:04 AM

We still burn the odd witch in our village occasionally (just for fun these days, nothing to do with religion) but we don't duck them first - it makes them too hard to light, what with the price of petrol.

"Can we have a dotty elderly lady herbalist who lives in a muddle of a cottage with a huge overgrown garden filled with herbs "

"Would you settle for a mad cat woman?"

Apart from the 'elderly' (she's 15 years younger than me), these sound very much like mresleveller who, of course, I would want living in my village.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 11:08 AM

Oh, and I'd want all the common land that was nicked during the enclosures to become common again for the use of us commoners - for free fuel, foraging and somewhere to graze my pig.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 11:12 AM

If we're having teenage Pagans, I want a proper village herbalist/witch in my re-imagined village too...

Such a character exists in the Merrily Watkins novels, CS - a crucial influence on young Jane and Lol (Merrily's daughter & folk-singing lover respectively), she is tragically killed early on, but her spirit lingers on by way of benign inspiration & occasional ghostly presence...

Would our herbalist / witch be enterprising enough to have a shop I wonder? Perhaps in this day and age she would, maybe it's called Caridwen's Cauldron and has a small museum attached - a Museum of Folklore indeed, a random curation of witches in bottles, witch bottles, mummified cats, corn dollies, wooden effigies, and all suchlike goodly things. I suspect this witch might be a folk singer and clog dancer too, although far too canny to end up being lured into WAV's canal boat. Besides, WAV's still in the stocks being roundly pelted with rotten Mangelwurzels for his word-crimes against the general enlightenment. Actually, looking over his published utterances, methinks he'd spend a good deal of his time there...

Whatever the case, I think our local dairy shop should be called Butter and Cheese and All and reflect the diverse wonders of all such produce the country over, and beyond, especially with respect of that Turkish Bagpipe cheese Jack was on about earlier. I imagine it being run next-door-but-one to Ye re-Imagined Village Music Shoppe in which one might find (for sale) examples of every musical instrument ever played on British Soil in the last 10,000 years.

And yes, Spleen, you can be The Construction Worker, but only if Pip is the Red Indian, and CS in The Biker.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 11:14 AM

Found the most peculiar video to a folk song on YouTube yesterday.
Not exactly worthy of a thread, so I'll throw it up here, enjoy...!

False Knight on the Road

Alright then Mrs Leveller, can have the position (I'll have to stick with being the village hippy - sigh...) just so long as she comes round my shambolic house for afternoon wine, and gives me herbal gardening tips...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 11:20 AM

Village Shops??? Well now we know we're imagining stuff.

Biker/Hippy I'll take!

Ahh, there must be an old burned out church somewhere off the beaten track, which has by way of local folklore, a coven of witches who used to use it for their slightly dodgy coven meeting! You don't go there alone at night, unless under dread obligations of a DARE!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 11:25 AM

I'll be honest, Being an urbanite, myself, and having been born in a fairly large city, I can't really identify with the whole rural dream thing.

By the way, just WHERE is this shop in Nottingham that sells A&W Root Beer

Root Beer

Root Bear

"dum da da dum dum da da dum da da dum dum"

Charlie

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 11:36 AM

"so long as she comes round my shambolic house for afternoon wine, and gives me herbal gardening tips... "

Just try to keep her away!

Actually, this is all beginning to sound like the village I actually live in. All it needs is the picturesque ruin. No, not me!. Wressle castle

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:09 PM

t

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:14 PM

There has to be a retired Master Mariner who sits outside the pub drinking beer and bores everyone to death with his" I remember rounding Cape Horn in.....", and then plays chanties on a D/G anglo concertina, whilst he sigs them in C#!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

Does the piece of doggerel in the first post qualify this as a music thread?
Move it to BS, it fits that description.
It is interesting though how WAV seems to walk around the, one thread only, restriction imposed some time back.
Still, the last thing I look for on here is consistency.
Feel a bit sorry for him on this thread though, as he's being picked on and mocked, in a very Mudcat cliquey sort of way.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:32 PM

I agree Norman, BS is the right description

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:35 PM

Do I detect a salty breeze a-blowin' in from the nearby sea there, Ron? In which case, I might venture a harbour for creels & cobles, with concrete piers gifted by the local land-owner, long gone now; death duties saw to that and the re-Imagined Country Estate is now in the hands of the re-Imagined National Trust...

Actually, talking about imaginary country estates check this out:

Coldharbour - A Brief History as of 1911

This was an attempt (by me) at writing a multi-layered English ghost story using the Imaginary Guide Book genre to interleave the various historical episodes and continuities. A sort of M R James at Rawlinson End as read out on an imaginary Radio 4 broadcast by an imaginary Michael Hordern circa 1974.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 12:41 PM

Common land - yes; and perhaps The Witches of Elswick could reform and rename as The Witches of the re-Imagined Village..? (Bit of a fruity mouthful, though.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 01:03 PM

(Joking apart, it's the first I've heard of this "one thread only, restriction imposed some time back." (Norman)...I've started this one, one for Wimbledon, kept WalkaboutsVerse Anew going, and posted on a few others, lately.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 01:07 PM

Feel a bit sorry for him on this thread though, as he's being picked on and mocked, in a very Mudcat cliquey sort of way.

It's his published ideology that's being picked on, as ever, not the man himself, stuck as he is in his old little well-worn rut no matter what friendly offers he's had over the years to help him out of it by way of aids to to a happier repatriation. I still look upon WAV's posts as cries for help. Still, I'd say apart from the occasional spat the general tenor of this thread is as Sportingly English as it gets on Mudcat, which is why is obviously rankles with nay-sayers who refuse to join in the fun.

Anyway, I'm off down to the imaginary pub for an imaginary pint before the imaginary singaround - if anyone fancies hooking up with me I'll be in beer garden from about 6.30 onwards, otherwise it looks like I'll be stuck with our imaginary Master Mariner (Retired), which is no bad thing really, especially if his imaginary daughter is behind the bar tonight...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 01:56 PM

David (WAV) is not being picked on and mocked. I've lashed out in anger at him in the past over ideological matters with which I'm in total disagreement, but the concept of the Re-imagined Village - with all that's implied - and folkloric viewpoints of rural life, of Englishness, of literary and philosophical convention, etc. - has proved to open up a rich mine of topics. For which I thank David for posting it. Whether I like the actual poetry or not is, in this instance, not the point for me.

And thanks to this thread and its multifarious posts, I was able to listen to Michael Hordern reading Monty James's "The Ash Tree" on the way home from the afternoon's expedition through the Sussex countryside to the music shop.

That's the beauty of Mudcat.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM

I've also enjoyed reading the posts here, Will, and one of the things I do have in common with SO is that I'm also off to my local singaround, having just watched the Wimbledon semis.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:11 PM

"There has to be a retired Master Mariner who sits outside the pub drinking beer and bores everyone to death with his" I remember rounding Cape Horn in....."

= WAV

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: doc.tom
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:16 PM

George Withers, that great old Somerset singer died last week. George was also, like his father before him, a poet. This seems an appropriate thread to post one of George's poems (which was also the title track of his CD) as a memorial.


THE LAND REMAINS (George Withers)

I remember - I remember the place where I was born;
'Twas full of cows and heifers then, and sheep and pigs and corn.
But the country scene is changing; the folks are changing too,
And farming's very different from the farming that I knew.

No geese are on the village green, no ponies are on the moors,
No cock crows on the dunghill now, the hens are all indoors,
The school's become a second home, the pub is closing down,
And the village shop just can't compete with Tesco's in the town.

The dairy herd is long dispersed, the quota's out on lease,
And the farmhouse sold to clear the debts and please the mortgagees;
And Father drives a lorry now, and Mum does B&Bs
In a semi on the new estate beyond the churchyard trees.

And there's new folk in the old place now; I don't know what they do,
But he's something in computers and a real nice fellow too.
They come to village functions; she's joined the W.I.;
They've not much clue as to what to do, but it must be said,they try!

Now the garden's graveled over - it's a TV gardener's dream
With flowers in terra cotta pots and a switch-on wildlife stream;
The rockery's a mockery of what was there before,
And the polystyrene staddle stones - well, they're the final straw!

No rows of spuds and carrots now, no runner beans and peas,
No cabbages, no rhubarb, no children climbing trees.
There's a four bi' four for Daddy and an Audi for his wife;
There's lots of Country Living - but no real country life!

But dawn still rises in the East, the sun still sinks in the West;
We come, we try, we live, we die, we work, we eat, we rest,
But love or hate the system, whoever holds the reins,
Let others learn - we've had our turn - and still the land remains.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 03:21 PM

Ahh Wimbledon...with Venus and Serena Williams in the women's final...Americans it should be noted.

The 'English' fantasy dies hard in some peoples lives.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Jul 09 - 06:49 PM

"The 'English' fantasy dies hard in some peoples lives."

Why fantasy? In fact, it has come closer, in many respects, to the reality of the village I live in than is quite comfortable - and this is not your archetypal English village...or maybe it is!WOW!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 02:26 AM

Wressle castle will do the job nicely, though by way of explanation - the burned out church and local folklore of dark doings actually exists not far from me. Though the place has since been done up and is now occupied by an enterprising artisan. *Our ruin*, will of course ever remain darkly mysterious to residents.

As for the wee seaside town, well I think that's 'just next door' to me already. It's the place my grandparents would take us on a Sunday drive for a paddle. Full of tea shops and suchlike. In fact it's the perfect place to house SO'Ps 'Butter and Cheese and All', because the place is chock full of deli's.

And there simply *must* be a local scandal. Anything involving a vicar, or headmistress, or local councillor caught in kinky leather underwear and/or filching public funds. Preferably the latter to fund the former.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 02:38 AM

Oh, as well as being the villages hippy-biker, I'm happy to moonlight as the villages resident 'Miss Whippy' btw. Then I can be involved in the local scandal with the local councillor!

As I was explaining to some friends the other evening, a carpenter friend and I created an alternate lifestyle for me, whereby he would build me a dungeon in my loft (I know, wrong level, but it'll have to do) for a share in the takings. After all racks and such specialist gear must cost a bomb to buy!

Anyway, we decided that all the bankers and city traders round my way, were probably in need of a local 'therapist' to relieve the strain caused by their high pressure city jobs. So now those bikers leathers will be usefully applied by day and by night!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:03 AM

Crow Sister - you should have lived in my village nearly twenty years ago. The vicar (married) was found guilty by a Consistory Court of adultery with a married parishioner in the village - and was unfrocked. Consistory Court hearings about "conduct unbecoming a clerk in Holy Orders" are rare.

How's that for your scandal? I think it should qualify.

It was an odd period in the village - and split opinion. Those of the vicar's circle of friends just couldn't believe it was all true and rallied round them. Those who knew it was true - and there were very many of them - were totally contemptuous of his behaviour and were glad to see him go.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:17 AM

Only recently we had 'The Bonking Bishop of Brentwood' (not in my village, but a suitably 'local' scandal nonetheless) who as well as carrying on with a local Mum, was embezzeling church funds - it was one of those evangelical churches where they expect blind people to see, and people in wheelchairs to get up and dance in praise of Lord Jesus though - they sent him home in disgrace.

Now see, if I can be Miss Whippy in the local village scandal, I can also blackmail the local crooked Councillors and Bishops! That was another part of the thickening 'plot' with my carpenter friend, for my secret subversive role in quintessential English village life...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:25 AM

The Bonking Bishop of Brentwood! That has a very definite waltz flavour to it - a local scandal in 3/4 time. Add a touch of the Miss Whippies to the mix and there's a good broadside ballad in their somewhere...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:56 AM

a carpenter friend and I created an alternate lifestyle for me, whereby he would build me a dungeon in my loft (I know, wrong level, but it'll have to do

Converted lofts are for the village cannabis farm.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 05:00 AM

Our local adultery scandal didn't have any teachers or clerics, just two people both of whom were married to someone else. What was unusual was the way it came to light - she tied him to a chair & (presumably some time later) discovered she couldn't get the knots undone, and called the Fire Brigade.

Not terribly good at keeping confidences, small town fire brigades.

(I don't believe she broke his throne or cut his hair, however.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 07:08 AM

Crow Sister, there's just the song for you in this thread.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 07:14 AM

Thanks for posting that good thoughtful poem, Doc.Tom (just above all the scandals here, if you haven't read it).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 07:30 AM

Dear Sir / Madam

I must protest at the tenor of recent posts on this thread in the light of which I might predict that it won't be just WAV spending time in the old re-Imagined Village stocks. So, let us decide forthwith what fine, decent, upstanding pillars of our re-Imagined Village Community will be in The Rough Band so as we might suitably serenade the moral transgressors who have lately strayed into our midsts.

In this light, ahem, I suppose CS's charming video for The False Knight on the Road becomes most apt, feathers and all by jove!

Yours disgustedly,

Mr Suibhne O'Piobaireachd, gent.
Elected Secretary of The re-Imagine Village Parish Council.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 08:44 AM

PS - Where might one purchase feathers such as those depicted in the above mentioned cinematographic entertainment? I fancy they would make a fetching addition to my Folk Hat, which is similar to the one depicted Here. Now there's a feather for your caps, gentlemen! Otherwise, it's really too hot for thoughts of feathers, much less the uses those youngsters might put them too. Of course there was none of that sort of thing in my younger days, dear me no...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 09:37 AM

I'm with you there David, that poem by George Withers, above, is just WONDERFUL!   Thanks for posting it, Tom...

Lovely thread, David.. :0)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 09:45 AM

Thanks for Joan the Leather Queen, Snuffy. I've a feeling some of the ladies at our folk meets might appreciate that one.

Actually I think it was The False Knight that rather reminded me of my wannabe duel identity. Otherwise..

Dear "Disgusted", I'd advise a Google search for erotic feathers, as currently my dungeon is in the process of being insulated, and the folk-erotica sideline is still boxed up in the out-house beneath the gimp chest (you know, the one I did the decoupage on - those Art & Craft classes at the village hall are a goldmine for the creative village dominatrix). I aught also to explain to any concerned upstanding members of our community, that the blackmail side of my enterprise is purely for the purpose of ensuring the greater good! A classic tart with a heart type of calling. Thus I'll only be blackmailing well-heeled crooks and scoundrels! So less talk of this banging of kettles and frying pans if you please.

Must dash, Mrs Leveller is over shortly to help me tend the Weed patch...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 10:26 AM

PS, I've been thinking it's time I sorted out a 'folk hat' too.

Though, I've still got to get me a 'folk poncho' for folk-fest camping in. I did think that would make an excellent 'canvas' for stitching ribbons, feathers, silk flowers and other suitable miscellaneous findings and/or stealings to.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:08 AM

Let's let Ray Davies (who's far more English than you could ever hope to be, WAV) have a word here...The last word, I believe, on the English village fantasy.

The Village Green Preservation Society

We are the Village Green Preservation Society
God save Donald Duck, Vaudeville and Variety
We are the Desperate Dan Appreciation Society
God save strawberry jam and all the different varieties
Preserving the old ways from being abused
Protecting the new ways for me and for you

What more can we do
We are the Draught Beer Preservation Society
God save Mrs. Mopp and good Old Mother Riley
We are the Custard Pie Appreciation Consortium
God save the George Cross and all those who were awarded them
We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular
Hell take Fu Manchu, Moriarty and Dracula.

We are the Office Block Persecution Affinity
God save little shops, china cups and virginity
We are the Skyscraper condemnation Affiliate
God save tudor houses, antique tables and billiards
Preserving the old ways from being abused
Protecting the new ways for me and for you.

What more can we do
God save the Village Green

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:12 AM

Oh and this...

"Ahh Wimbledon...with Venus and Serena Williams in the women's final...Americans it should be noted."

A Swiss (Roger Federer) and an American (Andy Roddick) in the men's final...ooops!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:44 AM

Not sure what you were drinking during your outing last night, SO, Sir, but thanks for enlightening me on "rough music".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:45 AM

England's first real sporting hero was Daniel Mendoza (born in England but Sephardic Jewish) so it's not like foreign-seeming people on the sports pitch are anything new.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 11:52 AM

"Let's let Ray Davies (who's far more English than you could ever hope to be, WAV) have a word here...The last word, I believe, on the English village fantasy."

I don't know, I think WAV's a special and rarified kind of "English" that I for one could never aspire (or indeed desire) to attain. Even with full genetic compliment of fair skin, green eyes and (what a friend once 'complimented' me with having) a 'serious case of English rose complexion... Plus a fat English arse of course! But then, I do love to bake - which is also probably more than a bit belonging to our re-imagined English village. Which leads me neatly onto an anecdote - relating to the very same Weed patch Mrs Leveller has been kindly advising me on, of late - about one of my early baking experiences, from a teenage birthday: My friend had aquired a lump of resin, and we made such colourfully iced cakes! She had to burn patchouli incense before Mum & Dad returned because the baking had scented the whole house so delightfully. We went picknicking with them, during the poll tax riots. It was a topper day, the sun was out, and some chap stole a policemans helmet and placed it upon a statue...

And to tie back in with the village BDSM theme, this was probably the soundtrack. One of my favourite songs of the time (purely coincidentally): The Mercy Seat

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:06 PM

If you like the idea of a stereotype, that's all well and good, and it's something Ray Davies has been taking the piss out of for years, and may he do it for years to come

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:22 PM

Ah... Ultra Vivid Scene. Now we're talking!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:31 PM

Pablo Fanque, born William Darby in Norwich in 1796 was black

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:40 PM

Sorry Charlie, I am as ever being throwaway. I'm sure Ray would in fit very well here.

Indeed, as you might have noticed this "quintessential English village fantasy" is currently infested with bonking bishops, helpful 'alternative' herbalists, and motorcycle riding dominatrices..

What a local news shocker!!
Want to come and play?
But only if you bring that tomahawk I've heard you tell of, we need new ways to abuse the councilor...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 12:41 PM

"relating to the very same Weed patch Mrs Leveller has been kindly advising me on, of late "

Shhhhhh. My eldest son's a copper! (In very loud voice) YES, aren't they lovely tomato plants. No, funnily enough, we haven't had any toms off them yet!!!!!!!!! More cake? It's your favourite.

Oh my god, a rather large lady and her two children have just driven past in a buggy pulled by a very spotty Shetland pony whose name, I believe is (cringe) Spoticus.

BTW, squire's pheasants are looking good this year - just hope our lurcher, Susie, is still fast enough to.......(taps side of nose with finger in knowing, old countryman sort of way).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:10 PM

Ahh, Leveller, my friend the carpenters Dad (same as was locked up in village lock up) used to be famous as the 'village poacher'. My mate when a kid had to fend off the local copper on his Dad's behalf: He told me about the time he was tasked with secretly supplying Mrs X from the village, a great bloody frozen leg of lamb what was sticking right out the freezer one day!
He said to me: "Yeah, my dad was a *proper* poacher!"

I bet if we all pooled our wee stories of "village life" on this thread we could come up with something to rival the bum off any Soap!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:19 PM

Oh yeah Spleen, can't recall his name but I fancied the pants off the lead singer. Big noses, bony bodies, bad teeth and lank hair was my idea of male beauty... Just as well really.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:30 PM

Stories...

Many years ago, one of our local pubs was owned and run by two gay guys - who loved the odd lock-in and were great fun.

At one of the lock-ins, the company felt the need for a sing-song round a piano in the old traditional way. But the pub had no piano, so... we went down the High Street to the house of one of the locals, woke him up and demanded the use of his piano. We got it out of the house, pushed it down the road on its casters and got it into the pub. After pouring several pints of beer into it, it seemed to be tuned up - and served us very well into the small hours of the morning.

At around the same time, the church bell tower was being renovated and, one hot Saturday afternoon, the ladders had been left propped against the tower wall. One of the local lads and his girlfriend were returning from a session in the pub and were passing the church. Seeing the ladders there, and feeling a little randy - what with the sun and the beer - they climbed up the ladder, shed their clothes with a light heart, and set about making the beast with two backs. Halfway through the fun and games, the vicar decided to check on building process, climbed the ladder and caught them in flagrante delicto - which resulted, rather unfortunately, in coitus interruptus. They were duly summoned before the church elders and asked to apologise for their behaviour. which they duly did - and got their revenge by testifying against the said vicar some months later at the Consistory Court. They were caught with trousers down - but he was unfrocked...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:44 PM

...maybe he should have just married them..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 01:46 PM

LOL! - They both married someone else, years later...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Howard Jones
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 03:09 PM

"They both married someone else, years later... "

Isn't that bigamy? Or possibly trigamy?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 03:17 PM

At the last forum I frequented, a small group of us created an 'alternative' group where we had 'alternative meets' and all sorts of fun & larks ensued...

It totally fecked off the main group though, which of course is probably what made it so brilliant (and why everyone wanted to be in it).

Well, I know you're all much older and more sensible here, so I hope that kind of dreadful factionalism doesn't occur here! (as if!!)

PM me, if interested.
There will be horrible initiation tests natch...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 03:20 PM

I like the sound of trigamy - a bit like marrying two geometry teachers.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Gervase
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 03:25 PM

Will, that can only be Henfield! I know the place well, as a very good friend was the postman there for a while.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:18 PM

Well there I was the other week, cycling around the lanes, when I ventured past the airfield with the private aero museum. Suddenly there was a terrible noise behind me and turning round there's this bright red Fokker (is that the right spelling?) tri-plane up my arse with a grinning replica of the bleeding Red Baron bearing down on me. As I ended up in the ditch, I reckon he chalked me up as his first kill of the day. There's never a Sopwith Camel around when you need one!

While I'm on the subject of the airfield, a couple of years ago a cannabis farm was discovered in some adjoining buildings. When they burnt the crop the wind was in JUST the right direction - Wow! Far out, man!We were stoned for days.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 04:21 PM

"When they burnt the crop the wind was in JUST the right direction - Wow! Far out, man!We were stoned for days"

another variation on the old urban/rural myth, that probably got its start with an old hemp plantation that was discovered near Washington DC, some years ago. Same action same result.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 05:28 PM

PS. I'm not an actual real life dominatrix...
Though I'm alway's open to blackmail, given the right fee!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 06:10 AM

Here's a vexed question carried over from elsewhere. In The re-Imagined Village do we allow our local Morris Side to follow what appears to be a prevailing trend amongst the Morris Fraternity and black up? Myself, with respect of all such re-Imagined Fakelore & Hey-Nonny-No-No which seem to be well off-kilter with respect to the cultural and social realities of 21st Century Great Britain, and at the risk of cries of Political Correctness Gone Mad, might I politely suggest that there's a lot of other colours to choose from - such as white, as we find in the old Pierrot Tradition (latterly carried on by the Very Wonderful Pierotters) and I believe the colour Green is very in these days with fantasy fakelorists, including Morrismen, everywhere.

Myself, I'd like to see our Morris Dancers masked as beasties. Here's a fine set of Traditional Animal Masks which I think would look a treat on any Morris Side. Or, for something a little more appropriate to our imaginary rustic setting they might like to try THESE. Or how about A Nice Woodland Set? Personally I think animal-masked Morris dancing is a genuine ancient-pagan-fertility-rite-derived-revived-tradition-type-thing just waiting to happen. For all I know maybe it already is happening, and no bad thing either.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 06:45 AM

No, the local Morris side should be in whites most of the year but in the weeks before Christmas will perambulate the neighbouring villages in rag-coats performing border morris dances before entering the pub for a mummer's play or, even better, performing long-sword dances with integral mummer's plays. On Boxing Day they will appear in the home village to perform at lunchtime in the square before retiring into the pub for a few songs and tunes.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 07:12 AM

the neighbouring villages

Neighbouring re-Imagine Villages no doubt; our fantasy topography grows ever more complex! Okay, so we've got Ambridge in The Archers, and Ledwardine in Phil Rickman's Merrily Watkins novels and countless other non-existent English villages that are somehow quintessential to the cause in spite of - or maybe because of - the fact that they don't actually exist. So, is the non-existent English Village the only true English Village I wonder? The one we hold in our dreaming hearts as being somehow archetypical of an inner-idyll informed, no doubt, by the subliminal depiction of such things in the ether of our Common Cultural Ambience which is largely defined by Television?

Real villages, in my experience, are hell on earth. I've tried village life on various occasions and whilst I love the countryside, the darkness, the wildlife, the stars, the seasons, the Agas, the real coal fires and the whole rural stench, I'm far happier in towns simply because village people get on my tits; the same faces, day in, day out; the faux sense of community, that deadening sense of entrenched permanence and forever being a newcomer even to the bloke across the road who moved in the year before you did.

No indeed, villages are too much like housing estates; deadening to the human spirit by an altogether unnatural juxtapositioning of territorial home-owners which might only lead to conformity on the one hand or strife on the other. Give me a town by the sea with people I couldn't give a shit about, not yet they me, but in a genuine crisis we will be there for one another.

In towns I find real friendships thrive...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 07:49 AM

No I don't think there are any "neighboring villages" this one is IT, the only! There might be a signpost just over the one way bridge that can't be deciphered, indicating 'Little Somewhere' or 'Great Ishyplace" but the road is always blocked by the farmers slow moving tractor, or geese crossing or some other mysterious quintessentially English village phenomenon (no-body of course, ever notices this...). And there's always a mist over the fields where the village sort of 'runs out'. Our village is of course located on Solaris, or is a programme in the Matrix, or maybe it's a set in some futuristic reality show..? Of course we'll never know!

Yes, I think all Morris Men should read Nigel Pennicks "Crossing the Borderlines, ritual animal disguise in the European tradition" and get with the traditionally re-imagined pagan fertility masked dancing pronto.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 08:11 AM

Here's a nice old folk song about life in the country, circa 1982:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyf4yZc2EM0

Lyrics Here

The villagers
Are surrounding the house
The locals have come for their due
It's hard to live in the country

*

Actually folks, I think even The re-Imagined Village is getting too much for me; I hereby commission WAV to start another thread about The re-Imagined Small Seaside Town. But once in The Village, how does one get out?

Actually, there's another Quintessential Piece of Genuine Englishness Essentially to any Successful Repatriation. Let's add it to the list shall we?

Dandelion and Burdock
The Ghost Stories of M R James
The Fall
Power Stations
Windfarms
John Shuttleworth
Vic Reeves
Jim Eldon
English Apples & Cheeses
The Prisoner

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 08:38 AM

In line with the re-imagined village come gnostic prison camp theme, C4's "They Came From Somewhere Else", just about as English as you like!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Came_From_Somewhere_Else

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 08:44 AM

"village people get on my tits;"

I have to be honest, neighbours of any kind get on my tits. Which is why, in the Re-Imagined Village - as in reality - my house is on the outskirts and on 'the wrong side of the tracks'.

"Power Stations
Windfarms"

We live within sight of Drax, the largest coal-fired power station in Europe and yet, when someone wanted to put up a couple of wind turbines, there was a huge outcry. I asked one of the objectors if she thought there was the same protest when they wanted to put up the windmill in the village? Personally, I can't see too much difference - or does age bring acceptability, as with the pit winding gear that is now the stuff of nostalgia but which we though of as eyesores not too long ago?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Paul Burke
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 09:04 AM

village people get on my tits; the same faces, day in, day out;>/i>

There's a bit of urban sophistication I've missed out on. I've been wearing the same face for nearly 60 years. No wonder it's looking a bit worn out. And you townies, you get fed up with your face, you don't cut off your nose to spite it like us benighted country folk, you simply change it for a new one! The New Faces, I thought that was just the name of the band.

What do they do with all the old faces- is there a huge landfill site, somewhere on the outskirts of Walsall perhaps, where they dump them? Or are they recycled these days, or perhaps shipped to the Third World?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 09:15 AM

"I hereby commission WAV to start another thread about The re-Imagined Small Seaside Town. But once in The Village, how does one get out?"(SO)...I try to see the sea once a year but missed last summer - Whitley Bay is a favourite.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 11:03 AM

Sean - practise your irony...

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 11:48 AM

Quintessential to the Small English Seaside Town:

BNP Outreach
Needle Exchange Scheme
Morrisey
Absentee Landlords
Vodka (in Coca Cola bottles)
Cockles

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 12:25 PM

I try to see the sea once a year but missed last summer - Whitley Bay is a favourite.

Once a year???!!! Feck, WAV man - you have a 5-minute Metro service giving to access to all the stations between West Monkseaton and Tynemouth with some of the finest coastline in the country, and some cracking all-year weekend flee-markets too (Tynemouth Station, Sat & Sun) with walks beyond Saint Mary's Island up to the history-rich Seaton Sluice. You even have a Metro service to South Shields...

Sean - practise your irony...

No irony intended, Stu - apart from that last bit about South Shields, but even so Marsden Rock & Grotto has to worth a weakly hike at least!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 12:28 PM

my house is on the outskirts and on 'the wrong side of the tracks'.

Right next to mine then, eh? Still, as the poet said, good fences make good neighbors (sic)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 12:46 PM

Re: Saint Mary's - I'll check the tides and go out there sometime this summer...watching Wimbledon at the moment - 8-8 in the fifth..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 03:00 PM

"good fences make good neighbors (sic)"

Unless you get involved in a dispute about who's responsible for their upkeep!Now that can really make you sic (sic).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Jul 09 - 05:04 PM

I'll check the tides and go out there sometime this summer

Go there tomorrow, WAV - you are Walkaboutsverse, so you must walk. If the tide's in, head North along the cliffs to Seaton Sluice where on a clear day you can see The Cheviot Hills from the top of Sandy Island. Chances are the King's Arms will serve you chips and mead before the next leg of the walk - inland, up-river, to the romantic ruins of Starlight Castle...

Unless you get involved in a dispute about who's responsible for their upkeep!Now that can really make you sic

Likewise when the Land Registry put their red pen marks in the wrong place on the property plans giving said village neighbour the idea that the fence is in the wrong place. Yup - it's your Great British Boundary Dispute, one of the real Traditional Pastimes of Village Life. The only time in my life when I've come close to actually hating someone. Not good.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 05:32 AM

C4's "They Came From Somewhere Else", just about as English as you like!

How on earth did I miss that one? Hilda Braid as well! Looks like a classic. Must check it out on DVD. Another great lost classic of the English sit-com is the darkly surreal Nightingales with a resident trio of night-watchmen played by Jimmy Ellis (Z-Cars etc.), Robert Lindsay (Citizen Smith, My Family etc. and David Threlfall (Shameless etc.). Happily, this came out on DVD a couple of years back allowing its inner mysteries to be explored at leisure. Easily one of the finest sit-coms of all time; in our re-Imagined Village it would required viewing on dark winter nights when our cherished streets are overrun by The re-Imagined Village Young Team...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:42 AM

|'ve just come across a song I wrote a while ago, re-imagining the South Yorkshire pit village I grew up in and then the move back to the East Coast where I lived until I left at the age of 18.

The England I Knew

The England I knew is now disappearing
The woods and the hedgerows are vanishing fast
The countryside that I loved and grew up with
Is quickly becoming a thing of the past

Where are the summers that were golden with sunshine,
The winters where snow lay thick on the ground?
The soft days of autumn with apples and conkers
The spark in the belly when spring came around?

The school that I went to now wouldn't pass muster
With its toilets outside and the coal-fired stove,
Where those at the front were roasted and blistered
While those at the back just shivered and froze.

Holidays once meant the great British seaside
And the sandwiches really were crunchy with sand.
Though the castles we made there were soon washed away
Those we built in our minds still steadfastly stand.

By the Co-Op in the village, in pit boots and flat caps,
Old men in white mufflers on the street corner stood,
Spitting out on the pavement a lifetime of coal dust
From pits that have long since been closed down for good.

In the sixties we moved back east to the coast again,
Away from the collieries and the landscape of coal.
But for friends that I left there, the future was certain:
The dark, dirty coalface, then life on the dole.

Then on Saturday nights, in pubs by the dockside
We'd fight fingerless fishermen, drunk on beer and tots.
Now instead of the trawlers tied up at the quayside,
They've built a marina for luxury yachts.

We've lost all the elms that once graced our landscape
And it looks like the beeches will go the same way
But still chainsaw and bulldozer rip through the forests
Because trees must make room for a new motorway

And wherever you look, the Yankees are coming,
They've invaded our high streets, taken over our minds.
Now burger and pizza joints pepper the landscape
And on telly their accents are all you can find.

Quick, send for the police, someone's stolen my England.
"Now then, when was the last time you had it, d'you say?
Hmmm, I can't recall seeing anything like that around here
Are you sure you didn't just throw it away?"

So don't turn your back on the England you love
Hold onto its hand like your daughter or son.
'Cos if you look away for a couple of minutes
When you glance back again…sorry, it's gone.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:56 AM

Like your lyric, thanks, The Leveller.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 09:59 AM

(For any RI Villagers who like/love their cricket, there's a BS debate brewing - along with the tea, on the village green, below the line - over "The Ashes.")

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 10:02 AM

You little devil, David - there's just a tickle of the troll about that cricket post... :-)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 11:11 AM

"I hereby commission WAV to start another thread about The re-Imagined Small Seaside Town. But once in The Village, how does one get out?"(SO)...I try to see the sea once a year but missed last summer - Whitley Bay is a favourite"

He doesn't need any encouragement, unfortunately

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 11:42 AM

"But once in The Village, how does one get out?"

You can't get out, that's the point of the Village! Ask Patrick McGoohan.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 12:25 PM

To WF and RM - are you trying to say "it's not cricket"?!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 12:32 PM

Alas, rather like Blakes 7 the mingeing sods won't let us at the archives! I don't think you can get TCfSW on DVD. Though I've no idea how well the series has weathered since the eighties.
It was rather stand alone of it's obscure kind, though of course stuff like The Comic Strip Presents was probably around the same time... (not that I was in theory old enough to stop up till 9pm in order to watch that kind of grown-up comedy!)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 12:46 PM

I saw a copy of Children of the Stones on VHS on a stall in the Winter Garden collectors market in Blackpool on Saturday. The ultimate in re-Imagined Villagery I would have thought; featuring Blake himself of course...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 03:46 PM

In answer to the question.

Has Children of the Stones aged well?

The answer is no, it's the big hair, the de rigueur sideburns, the kipper ties, and jacket lapels wide enough to land an aircraft on, that make CotS a dead 80s give away.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 04:04 PM

Eh! I missed CotS before, and am definitely inclined to give it a view on what I've now seen, kippers and all...!

What's so nice about 'growing up' is that you no longer have to pretend that your enjoyment of things is somehow 'subversive', 'kitch', or 'ironic'.

What a relief...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 05:25 PM

a dead 80s give away.

Context is all, Rifleman! Besides - it was first screened in 1977! I used to watch it with my punk mates from school & we loved it. A product of it's time & no less worthwhile because of that. We rented it on DVD last year (through Sofa Cinema) & thoroughly enjoyed it, but then again I reckon the first series of Catweazle to be amongst the finest British TV ever made - I even have a signed picture of Geoffrey Bayldon (albeit on the trike at Duck Halt from series 2) hanging pride of place. I'm also a big fan of Pertwee's re-invention of Worzel Gummidge (in which Bayldon likewise excels). Children of the Stones is part of that genre of - er - Folkloric TV; of it's time, but reflecting a wider vibe of a particular Zeitgeist one also finds in such films as Blood on Satan's Claw and The Wicker Man.

Check those links, WAV - all part our rich folkloric heritage!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 05:39 PM

Not forgetting The Changes...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 06 Jul 09 - 06:19 PM

Children of the Stones? Now you're talking! Got it on DVD last year and watched the whole series end to end. It really is the Wicker Man for kids. Now contemplating the Tomorrow People boxed set but anticipating disappointment. And why isn't The Changes on DVD? Eh? Thanks for reminding me about it, S o'P.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 04:50 AM

And what about Sky?

There were definitely some echoes of such programmes in the opening episode of the new Torchwood last night - even the title: Children of Earth. Watch it again HERE - brilliantly compelling sci-fi in the fine British tradition of such things (Nigel Kneale et al) I'd say. Episode two tonight!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 05:55 AM

Have a listen to 'Shabby Seaside Towns' here . I wrote it on the way back from Whitley Bay some years back. The Spanish City was closed at the time.
Tim

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 06:22 AM

I've heard about, and seen snippets of (on the BBC's Country File, I think..?), The Wicker Man, and it's one of the few films/television plays that I'd like to catch sometime.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 06:22 AM

Cheers, Tim - definite echoes of Morecambe there! The Spanish City had a last ditch attempt at reinventing itself as The Whitley Bay Dome some years ago playing host to bands such as Gong and Faust, though Magma pulled out owing to poor ticket sales. I wonder, have I ever truly forgiven them for that?

Yesterday Ross & I went with a friend to a poetry event at Blackpool Library where we each sang songs & told stories but mostly we went to hear Ron Baxter reciting as poems some of the songs we'd performed in the Fylde Coasts Sands show on Saturday night. Arriving an hour early, we decamped to the North Pier for a reviving Costa and basked a while midst sea-side shabbiness certainly, but there's something about Blackpool that is most tangibly alive and kicking, however so haunted by the ghosts of its not inconsiderable past, even to the point of having an ultra-bland sentimental MOR version Fields of Athenry forming part of the Irish Medley blaring out of the gift shop as we passed by, enchanted...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 07:45 AM

I do like Torchwood, but I do find something a bit creaky and wooden in British sci-fi..

I thoroughly dug the fabulous Babylon 5 though.
And for sci-fi, the most brilliantly weird shit I ever saw was the surreal Lexx. Everything looked like willies or something. I recall one particular shower scene... !

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 08:06 AM

but I do find something a bit creaky and wooden in British sci-fi..

The finest sci-fi was British; the finest TV - The Prisoner - and the finest film - Quatermass and the Pit, which is given homage by Babylon 5 in the feature length episode Thirdspace. I gave Lexx my best shot, but it was always on too late for me too fully take in. And as for that shower scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSw-9aqgoBQ

In our re-Imagined Village we will always be watching the skies, especially after the rumours of strange lights seen hovering over Poacher's Knoll on the night those Crop Circles appeared...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 08:06 AM

Now here's classic (LOL!) British horror film, directed by my friend, Gary Sherman. I have to confess (under torture) that I did have a hand in writing the script.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deathline-DVD-Christopher-Lee/dp/B000EWOO2Y

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 08:17 AM

"the rumours of strange lights seen hovering over Poacher's Knoll "

That was probably me out 'lamping' with my dog, Susie. Why do you think they call it Poacher's Knoll? Now don't 'ee be tellin' t'squire!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 08:32 AM

You man the Death Line / aka Raw Meat, with Donald Pleasance!!??? Bloody hell - the exalted company we keep on Mudcat!

One of the finest films ever, and an opening theme to die for. Watch it in its glorious entirety here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Look5R8kQs

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 11:09 AM

I'd heard much aboutt «Children of the Stones, I finally viewed it, the term 'the legend is greater than the reality! came to mind, much like The Wicker Man..the cat washing herself holds more excitement.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 11:15 AM

"One of the finest films ever"

Hmmmm! I thought it had died without trace.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 12:11 PM

As far as British horror films go, nothing comes close to "Night of the Demon" (1957) IMO. Scared the living crap out me back then - still does today.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 12:27 PM

Well, for my money, "The Innocents", based on Henry James's "The Turn Of The Screw" is pretty fearsome. And don't forget "Dead Of Night", the compilation of horror stories by Cavalcanti and other directors - the haunted mirror story is still a shocker.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 02:57 PM

As far as British horror films go, nothing comes close to "Night of the Demon" (1957)

Based on the M R James story Casting the Runes which is rumoured to have inspired the Ring cycle...

And don't forget "Dead Of Night", the compilation of horror stories by Cavalcanti and other directors - the haunted mirror story is still a shocker.

I was fortunate enough to catch this on the big screen a few years ago (if the club screen of the Tyneside Cinema counts as big) and whilst all the favourite scenes were magnified into the sort of glory you'd expect, the biggest surprise was the golfers story which hitherto was the weak link in the chain. Not so on the big screen - the bleak winter landscapes took on an epic quality that gets quite lost on the small screen. A true classic. I'm a big fan of portmanteau horror films, and whilst nothing beats Dead of Night, having Alan 'Fluff' Freeman and Roy Castle in the cast Dr Terror's House of Horrors has a special place in my heart...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 07 Jul 09 - 05:28 PM

Anybody see BBC's Countryfile on Sunday? It's still available on BBC iPlayer and will be re-broadcast Friday, 10th July at 1:25am, BBC One.

They had an item on climate-change and its effect on what kind of fruit and veg might be growable in the UK sometime soon. Already, from only a handful a few years back, there are now scores of vineyards and winemakers across the country.

In passing, they mentioned that several things we regard as essentially native are in fact relatively recent introductions. Apples and pears, far from originating in the East End of London, came from Persia. The familiar orange carrot is a later variant - the original purple variety came from Turkey. Swedes - what can I tell you? And as for the potato - well, you've had your chips!

Ross

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 03:34 AM

"They had an item on climate-change and its effect on what kind of fruit and veg might be growable in the UK sometime soon"

I can now grow decent tomatoes outside in Yorkshire whereas, a few years ago, they had to be in a polytunnel. I also grow chillis and peppers but they do need some protection.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 03:41 AM

That's all true and, as I've said above, all good, Ross: fruit, veg., etc. should be exempt from the "grow native plants for native fauna" rule (applicable to our RI Village and all parts of our world), because growing such consumables in our gardens cuts down on food-miles, etc.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 04:52 AM

" because growing such consumables in our gardens cuts down on food-miles"

Sounds like a good case for growing bananas and kiwi fruit in your back garden then.

Of course that Norman-German-land owning, sponging, architecturally deluded intellectual midget Prince Charles has already had a go at creating the 'ideal' English village with the creation of Poundbury. Of course this has village has no more relevance to the reality of English village life than WAV's equally fanciful construct but then at least WAV's family haven't spent the last thousand years squeezing ordinary island villagers dry.

What about The Weirdstone of Brisingamen? Set in the decidedly ancient and eerie landscape of Alderley Edge and also Macclesfield this excellent book is as good a read for adults as it is for kids, and a whole heap better than Harry Potter, as many of the locations in the book exist and are visitable.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:04 AM

I grow a type of climbing 'French' bean called Cherokee Trail of Tears. Which comes originally from...er, let me see....

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:12 AM

"Of course that Norman-German- land owning....Prince Charles" He speaks highly of you as well! If you must go into his ancestry, he is related to every royal house in Europe , with the exception of Ottoman, and ex-king Zog of Albania, including, very distantly to Vlad [of Transyvania, so your discription as Norman-German is somewhat narrow.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:13 AM

Global warming or no, SJ, trying to grow bananas in England, or anywhere else in these isles, remains you know what; and this is where fair-trade kicks in.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:23 AM

The Weirdstone of Brisingamen...as many of the locations in the book exist and are visitable.

Surely that should be all locations?

Lindow Common and Black Lake, Shutlingsloe, Shining Tor, Windgather Rocks etc. All visitable

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:58 AM

excellent book is as good a read for adults as it is for kids, and a whole heap better than Harry Potter

Maybe this topic is deserving of another thread? Oddly enough, and quite in spite of myself, I fell for the Harry Potter books after going to see the first film which overcame my usual cynicism on such things, nicely tying in with the season too. I despair when the films come out in summer as it misses the whole new term-time autumn-into-winter thing that is such a feature of the English year, academic or otherwise. That said, I'm only too aware there are far better books / films / TV adaptations / series than Harry Potter, which failed to deliver anything worthy by way of a conclusion - not for me anyway. If only real-life could be so black & white!

My wife is a huge fan of Diana Wynne Jones, whose Fire and Hemlock (based around Tam Lin and True Thomas) is one of the most effective books on the supernatural I've ever read. I don't think DWJ's been troubled too much by the film industry; there was a TV adaptation of Archer's Goon, which I didn't see, and the brilliant Howl's Moving Castle was made into an equally brilliant feature length anime by Studio Ghibli back in 2004. Definitely a must-see - especially in original Japanese with English subtitles!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:05 AM

"so your discription as Norman-German is somewhat narrow."

Whatever. He should stick to what he's good at, which is keeping a thousand-year-old feudal system in place. Oh, and sticking his royal nose in where it's not wanted (by phoning fellow over-privileged inbreds like the Qatari Royal Family to get his way when opposing visionary architectural schemes like the Chelsea Barracks development, mainly because everyone here was ignoring him).

"Surely that should be all locations?"

Well, although I have frequently visited many on the locations in the book (especially on the Peak District side where I live) I can't say I have sought out every single to see if there's access.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:08 AM

By the way SO'P, the link to Catweazle was brilliant - thanks.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:12 AM

Well if nobody else had the guts to stand up & tell that architect that his design was not only completly at odds with the existing buildings but a load of crap [like most of his other buildings.. have you seen his Lloyds building?}good on Prince Charles. There's too many in the'arts' establishment who believe that they know better than 'Joe Public' just look at the garbage that year after year wins the Turner prize, .

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:19 AM

Loved Brisingamen and Gomrath as a kid. Read the Owl Service again last year, brilliant stuff.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:36 AM

Gosh! And there was I innocently assuming that Mudcat, would be just the place to endorse the obvious joys of Modern Art! :-)

I think Charles' re-imagined English village, is in fact the quintessential Art Instillation... What a genius!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM

The Qatari royal family have just bought the world's oldest league club to re-establish their rightful place in the football pantheon.
Still, while we have bellicose reactionary threads like this there'll always be an England.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 07:50 AM

Not sure who this Joe Public bloke is but I doubt if anyone has actually bothered to ask him what he thinks - especially Charlie Windsor who has the unmitigated arrogance to think that his personal opinion counts above everyone else's. If you think Charlie is an arbiter of good taste, just look at the way he dresses - worse than most folkies!

I think the re-imagined village should be a republic.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:05 AM

Bear in mind the Turner prize is (mainly) for conceptual artists and the people who buy their stuff (Saatchi and Co). How long before we hear someone on the operating theatre shout through his anaesthetic 'Call yourself a surgeon. My 8 year old can do surgery like that.'

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:13 AM

Yes, TL - we should follow the good people of Nepal and form a Republic of England, where the like of Mr. Windsor can push his views democratically.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:15 AM

I must admit my early enthusiasm for conceptual art has diminished drastically over the years. It might be naive, but I find the almost obscene commercial value of much art product, a big turn off. And all the marketing hype. There are no doubt incredible visionaries out there, but I you probably have to dig for it. And I lost the desire to seek. I probably really aughta take a trip to Tate Modern sometime though, and re-imagine myself as being eighteen or something...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 08:18 AM

I'm with Ron on the mediocre celebrity cult of so-called modern art, and as a sort of fringe Monarchist I might even find myself siding with Prince Charles too, especially when it comes to architecture. Recactionary? Moi? But of course...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 09:45 AM

Charlie's idea of architecture is Portmeirion as re-imagined by Barratt Developments. But purely for external consumption.

Modern conceptual art is art marketing, a branch of futures trading. To like or dislike it misses the point. There's plenty of representational art around, it's just that C4 prefers women with Nancy Cunard haircuts and men in brothel creepers as art's spokespeople.
Some contemporary art is most affecting.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:06 AM

"a Republic of England"

you can count me out

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 11:46 AM

"Charlie's idea of architecture is Portmeirion as re-imagined by Barratt Developments."

Yeppers. The err 'genius' art instillation comment, was kinda meant in a tongue in cheek fashion... :)
Though I can also see it, somehow. But only if the faux ye old England village houses, also homed faux "real" modern people who had to live there for the rest of their lives - as a kind of extreme performance art experiment.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:01 PM

"you can count me out"

....8, 9, 10. You're out.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:06 PM

took you awhile to dream that comeback up did it...typical *LOL*

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 12:17 PM

"took you awhile to dream that comeback up did it...typical *LOL* "

No.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 03:47 PM

Now This My Idea Of England

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 05:51 PM

Well oddly enough, I'd prefer Platonic 'Philosopher Kings' over any Tyranny of the Majority... I doubt Charlies exactly the former. But he IS s Hippy at least, which is Good Enough for me. In this much (amongst others) I also find myself a fringe Monarchist.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 08 Jul 09 - 06:02 PM

so now this imagined village has its pet right winger (WAV) and its pet left winger (Sugarfoot Jack ) Oh joy life is complete........

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:00 AM

It's not as simple as that, RM: according to the common understanding of politically Right and Left, on some matters, I'm the former; and, on others, the latter. But I think that questioning future ECONOMIC immigration is actually a Left Wing attitude.

Poem 75 of 230: IMMIGRATION'S LEFT AND RIGHT

Letting people
Enter a state
For factors like
Terror through hate.

Rewarding those
Interested in
Gains which oppose
Heritage and
The state's own shows.

From http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)

And here's what I think of capitalism:

"ENDS
Within the broader music industry, and beyond, what some get for their hour's work, compared with others, is ridiculous and inhumane; hence, many relatively competent musicians within the folk-scene are really struggling to make ends meet; so, if we like fair competition, we don't like capitalism. A better way, as I've suggested in verse, is to accept that humans are competitive, and have strong regulations (partly via nationalisation) to make that competition as fair as possible – whilst also providing "safety-net" support." (from "Messages," via the above links, if you like).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:33 AM

WAV - kindly keep your racist bullshit out of this thread.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:52 AM

I was responding to being called a "right winger" by RM, and nothing in that response is "racist", SO.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:52 AM

Wot he said.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:55 AM

Unsolicited offerings of poetry without an optional link is the equivalent of people showing you their operation scars uninvited. Please don't.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:35 AM

Fact is, WAV, rather like the rather fatuous excuses for morris-dancers blacking-up over on the Motley Morris Banned! thread, any opposition of immigration in this day and age becomes racist by default. There is no such thing as unlimited immigration - this is a myth you (and others) perpetuate, likewise your other somewhat unreasoned polemic which you really need to sort out, all the more so given the current climate.

In our re-Imagined English Village all the diverse ethnicities of 21st Century England will co-exist quite peaceably, as people do for the most part in my experience. Our unity will be enriched by our diversity, and our creative individuality will be greater than any so-called cultural tradition of whatever persuasion. Whilst WAV might say when people lose their culture society suffers (though what he actually means by this has never been made clear) the reality of the situation is when people lose their culture there is generally a good reason for it and the results are, invariably, liberating.

Thirty-years ago this very month four young men from the north West of England released an album that coalesced a cultural movement and remains even unto this day as iconic as it is musically definitive. In WAV's world these four young men would have been playing their own good folk music, which means they would have produced some hearty Lancastrian pastiche instead of the epic which in WAV's world is simply American Pop. WAV - your simplistic visions are charmless aversions to the actualities of cultural richness and the celebrations thereof; likewise, your persistence with immigration myths is wholly divisive and arguably specious to a deeper level of xenophobia wholly at odds with the realities of life in England in the here and now. For such word-crimes against the popular enlightenment I hereby condemn you to another day in the stocks, not so much being pelted by rotten vegetables, but being played tracks from Joy Division's Unknown Pleasures at very high volumes until you realise the obvious error of your ways.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:49 AM

"any opposition of immigration in this day and age becomes racist by default." (SO)?..That IS wrong.

"There is no such thing as unlimited immigration - this is a myth you (and others) perpetuate" (SO)...no I don't - I accept that there are, of course, regulations re. immigration/emigration, but argue that they should be strengthened.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:54 AM

We've thrashed over WAV's philosophies many a time and more in various threads in the past. But we never get any solid answers to the questions we pose. I'd just like you to answer me one, David - as honestly as you can (and then I'll depart this conversation):

Why is it necessary to have a world in which people in a country should only play, sing, eat, grow and otherwise be involved with things which (by whatever weird definition) are Native to that country? Your use of "Multicultural" actually means "Nationalistic", and multicultural, as far as I'm aware, means several cultures co-existing together in one country.

Anayway, to return to the question: What is inherently better - in your view - about a world in which such a situation exists? I don't mind what the answer is - I'd just like to hear you give your reasons for believing it.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:01 AM

"But I think that questioning future ECONOMIC immigration is actually a Left Wing attitude."

No offence WAV old boy, but I think your and my ideas on immigration, economic or otherwise are poles apart.

Modern art and architecture are of course far broader churches than the old fuddy-duddys of the world ever seem to grasp. I agree that Hurst et al are basically the manufacturers of expensive derivative tat for wealthy marketing wonks with too much time on their hands and a distinct lack of taste or insight (although a well-developed ability to spot an investment or even create a market). Duchamp is probably sat in the otherlife wondering if anyone ever got it in the first place.

What about Chris Drury? Andy Goldsworthy? Richard Long? Anthony Gormley? And let's face it, Manchester has benefited greatly from architects and a local authority with vision and the courage to allow modern cutting-edge developments alongside some the finest Victorian buildings ion the world. You need to look forward to put the past into context, and like the architects of old we too should be able to articulate ourselves through this most visible means of artistic expression.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM

Will: trying to have different cultures living under the one state-law (via imperialism and mass economic/capitalist immigration/emigration will always cause problems - the latest example, in our news, is China.
Whilst the ideal of having the land, the culture, and the law of the land all linked (with eco-tourism and fair-trade between different lands) may never be reached, making economic/capitalist immigration/emigration illegal, via the UN, from now on, will make our world a more peaceful and interesting place.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:44 AM

Anthony Gormley?

No thanks!

One of the reasons I moved away from the North East was to get out of the shadow of The Gateshead Flasher only to find a nearby beach has been besieged with further examples of his art. I'm of the belief there's enough structural beauty in the world without public sculpture cluttering things up further.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EznkdwwOg0w

In the re-Imagined Village public money would be spent on things of some actual benefit to people.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 07:57 AM

I'd like the skies above our re-imagined village to be populated by mysterious orbs, and the fields by enterprising folk artists, making land art:

Like this, and this, and this

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 09:10 AM

Love it, CS! Always have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfcw7ohkuOU

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 10:40 AM

Excellent stuff!

I once found a pattern that had been mowed in a grass meadow clearing up in the local forest. Someone had taken the trouble to haul a lawnmower up there and create the image on a patch of uncultivated land right amongst the trees. It certainly gave the area some . . . thing intangible; this small greensward was situated next to an old stone trough that a small spring emptied into and I wondered if there was some significance to that? However, of more significance was it was the only real patch of open grass near the track (which could take vehicles) and was accessible from the road.

Lots more here from the circlemakers.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 02:02 PM

WAV - kindly keep your racist bullshit out of this thread.

WAV will deny it till the cows come home but the quote is basically true none the less, and even if he is xenophobic and not racist, his posting are the sort of fodder that scum of the BNP feed on.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 02:14 PM

No RM: I don't knock any particular culture (in the way you, e.g., repeatedly knock trad. English culture); rather, I repeatedly question the act of economic/capitalist immigration/emigration itself.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 02:21 PM

(in the way you, e.g., repeatedly knock trad. English culture)

WAV - what exactly is this trad. English culture of which you speak? Do give some few examples and explain what qualifies them as being objectively and absolutely trad.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 02:36 PM

"repeatedly knock trad. English culture"

I've forgotten more about English traditional music than you'll ever know, WAV, I grew up with the aforementioned tradition thanks to my father. What I thoroughly reject is YOUR nasty, blinkered vision of England ( a nice all white society where everyone is well behaved) You haven't got a clue,sunshine so stop pretending you do!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:08 PM

"In the re-Imagined Village public money would be spent on things of some actual benefit to people."

Too right - starting with free beer (or a nice port an lemon for the ladies). Sorry, wrong thread again!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:17 PM

Rum and Pep with a large umbrella for me. No, on second thoughts a pint of Tim Taylor's as usual.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:18 PM

"(or a nice port an lemon for the ladies)"

I know of women who can knock back a pint with the best of'em, mind you that wouldn't meet with WAV,s approval, but heigh - ho!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:30 PM

West Indian members would be allowed a refreshing rum punch In Little WAVing drunk from a coconut cup, German's a beerstein and excitable Italians, a Chinti. And here comes Miss Marple giving Beatrix Potter a knee trembler in the Morris Minor. That'll never do. Stop in the name of Plod! Girl on girl action has Much Lesbos in the Marsh for that sort of thing, turn left at Pooh Bridge and if you can see Dingly Dell you've gone too far.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:34 PM

*LOL*
(Tim Turner voice over)
"This Too Is England"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:46 PM

Can we book this lot to play the village hall?

And can I have these two as my next door neighbours?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 04:51 PM

"this lot"

The Scottsville Squirrel Barkers *LOL*

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 05:47 PM

"WAV - what exactly is this trad. English culture of which you speak? Do give some few examples and explain what qualifies them as being objectively and absolutely trad." (SO)...E.g., I just posted a recording of "Young Emma" (complete with an English-flute intro! and a pic. of a "lowlands low" that I'm sure you'll recognise).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:27 PM

Oh WAV.

Words fail me.

Not very good.

in sorrow

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 09 Jul 09 - 06:35 PM

Listen to this Young Emma

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 02:58 AM

Seeing as we have Miss Marple & Beatrix Potter inspired bands playing at the Village Hall, then I'd like our village to have a real Old MacDonald's Farm too.
And of course a traditional English Village Shop.
I'd also like one of several pubs (The Slaughtered Lamb up the road), but I think The Crow and Crown might be the one I'd want as my local - especially for Jake the poacher.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 04:54 AM

I just posted a recording of "Young Emma" (complete with an English-flute intro! and a pic. of a "lowlands low" that I'm sure you'll recognise).

South Shields, eh? Interesting choice, and a more than reasonable performance, IMO (as one who only listens to Folk Singing in singarounds & on field recordings), my only complaint is your effected vowel sounds. Far more authentic (and honest) would be to sing in your natural Aussie brogue; it's a very widespread ballad throughout the English speaking world (see HERE) so it may well have reached Australia in the pre-revival days. Rachel sings an interesting variant (with banjo) that she got from the Max Hunter archive - see Young Emily. What's your source?

However, this doesn't answer my original question as the singing of dusty old Traditional Folk Songs in the context of a Folk Song Revival (as we do) in no way constitutes an all consuming objective & absolute Traditional Culture, rather a somewhat specialist hobby persisted in by an elite minority of enthusiasts, casual, dedicated or otherwise...

*

Seeing as we have Miss Marple & Beatrix Potter inspired bands playing at the Village Hall, then I'd like our village to have a real Old MacDonald's Farm too.

I have the very book for you, CS: George Ewart Evans - The Farm and the Village - a long time favourite of mine, though I'm sure you could pick up the 1974 paper back edition (75p back in the day) for less than they're asking for this. The 1974 edition looks nicer too - I love all those old Fabers with their colourful rustic imagery. Which puts me in mind of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJt9-l27fY8

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:08 AM

Bloody hell, Crow Sister, I practically wet myself!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:14 AM

Misery Farm:

Bidgood's Broadcasters

and - er - Current 93!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 05:21 AM

You'd get a good domino school in the tap room with these guys

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:01 AM

Nice to see Norwich Foliate Head Boss East Cloister M5, aka Golden Boy, in his pre-nose job days when he more than the look of Michael Jackson about him. I think this picture comes from E. C. Le Grice's Norwich Cathedral - Its Interest and Beauty (1945) published before the term Green Man had caught on, instead we find the rather wonderful heads-with-leaves. It also features on the cover of H.D. Molesworth's Sculpture in England - Medieval (British Council, 1959) in which it is simply called a foliate head.

Here's a video still I took a few years back showing his nose job: Golden Boy, May 2006.

For the complete video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKDKbtYeVBM

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 06:16 AM

Same shelf as This Enchanted Isle (just to the left of my head for the imagination impaired) is:
Caught by the River - A collection of words on water
Notes from Walnut Tree Farm - Roger Deakin
The Countryside Companion
England in Particular
The English Year
Folklore Myths and Legends of Britain
Follies and Grottoes - Barbara Jones
Heritage Trees
The Lore of the Land
The History of the British Countryside

All essential to the re-imagined village library

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 07:16 AM

Yup, I'll go along with all of those. Plus, can I add Rackham's Woodlands and Trees in the British Landscape. all of Roger Deakin's other books and several shelves of Batsford? Oh, and I must have John Cowper Powys's Glastonbury Romance. That'll keep us occupied on long winter evenings. Ah, and, of course, the entire Highways and Byways series... and anything by H.V. Morton......

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 09:56 AM

No! Burn them all now. this won't do at all.

My re-Imagined compulsory reading list includes works by luminaries such as Geoffry Ashe, Enid Blyton and Culpeper for example (you don't have to *like* them, merely relax and absorb a hypnotic brew of suitably re-Imagined Englishness).

All books must be purchased from your local jumble sale - where in fact you may find many more equally suitable and faded volumes like 'Jamaica Inn', 'Mothers Day Gifts from Dried Flowers', 'Macrame Furnishings by Laura Ashley', 'Build you own Cess-Pit', 'You and your Fluffy Bunny Rabbit' and so on.

None of these books should have references, or other pointless stupid stuff!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 10:15 AM

Oh, that reminds me. Just finished re. re. re. re. re. re-reading Rogue Male by Geoffrey Household. As stunning an illumination of the English, specifically Dorset countryside as you could wish for. All wrapped up in a thriller. A marvel. A bloody marvel.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 10:25 AM

So - I first heard Martin Carthy sing "Young Emma" (above), and the lyric I use is somewhere between the two on this site; I couldn't find the score anywhere, so worked out the notes by mimicking my voice with the tenor-recorder.

Customs & Traditions in Britain - the Pitkin Guide has quite a few from England.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 10:49 AM

How about:

Early to Rise by Bob Copper (and A Song for Every Season)

Witchcraft in England by Christina Hole (for the pics, I haven't read the text yet).

This Little Puffin . . .

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 10:49 AM

So the version of Young Emma you sing is based on an American variant, WAV? I'm surprised. Mine is too actually, but I base mine on Peter Bellamy, naturally... Actually - I haven't sang that in over ten years. Must dig it out!

The Pitkin Guides are great fun - the one on The Green Man is a surprisingly balanced & well illustrated overview of the subject - and it always amazes me how many of these little books & pamphlets have existed over the years. These I collect as a matter of course - I picked up Lilla M. Fox's Costumes & Customes of the British Isles (Chatto & Windus 1974, hardback, first edition!) for £1.99 in Oxfam in Lancaster on Wednesday. It bears the stamp Lancashire Education Committee Quernmore C.E. Cont. Infant Junior School 30 Jan 1975. I might disagree with their every word (like the assertion that the Allendale Tar Barrels comes down to us from the Vikings!) but I cherish them all in the name of a subject I truly love. Thus do I give them pride of place, as much in my heart as on my bookshelves.

S O'P (PY TWAT)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 11:17 AM

That last bit was meant to be a picture link. Here it is again...

My Bookshelves - including Lilla M. Fox's Costumes & Customs of the British Isles nestling into Bob Pegg's Rites & Riots in which it is categorically shown that the Allendale Tar Barrels have a considerably more recent origin that the Vikings! And all the more fascinating because of it...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Rifleman (inactive)
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 11:21 AM

"WAV - what exactly is this trad. English culture of which you speak? Do give some few examples and explain what qualifies them as being objectively and absolutely trad." (SO)

"...E.g., I just posted a recording of "Young Emma" (complete with an English-flute intro! and a pic. of a "lowlands low" that I'm sure you'll recognise)."

AS usual, I note, WAV hasn't given a direct answer to the question at hand. just a link to more of his rather insipid web work ( personally I really don't care what the flute's nationality is) Why? We may ask. Simple, he has no answer, because his narrow view of what constitutes England and its traditions simply doesnt exist and never has. Now if this , in his words "knocking England" then so be it, but as I have already stated my view of England and the rest of the British Isles aka Great Britain aka the United Kingdom, is miles and them some away from WAV, thank god.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 12:17 PM

Just in case you're not aware, S., there is Tar-barrel racing in Ottery St. Mary, Devon, also - it's in the Pitkin mentioned above, and I think it was BBC4 where I saw a documentary on it. I'm not sure what's more extreme - that or cheese-rolling at Cooper's Hill, Gloucestershire..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Jul 09 - 12:30 PM

We touched upon the Ottery St. Mary tar-barrels on the various Museum of Folklore threads - look out for the You Tube footage! It's a different caper to what happens at Allendale that's for sure, but both have a very clear historic point of origin, rather than the usual Viking / Pagan nonsense we see trotted out year in year out. I'd have to agree as Folk Customs go, from what I've seen, Ottery and Cooper's Hill are the most extreme, though the Haxey Hood (etc.) seem to run pretty close, as Phil might testify!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Jul 09 - 09:36 AM

Myself, I'd like to see our Morris Dancers masked as beasties.

Okay - I'm starting this trend, as from last week when we renewed our membership of Blackpool Zoo (largely down to the new Spheniscus magellanicus exhibit which is simply spiffing) so, yes, here I am:

Sedayne (Mixed-Race Morris Fan) Blackpool Zoo, July 12th 2009

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Jul 09 - 12:21 PM

PS -

Sainbury's do a very nice sugar-free Dandelion & Burdock in cans. No adverse diuretic qualities as yet, despite claims of genuine plant extracts & one of the dandelion's more quaint folkloric handles reflecting this particular quality.

Where the hell is everyone? All on holiday likely. Bloody second-homers, escaping the muddy hardships of village life in an inclement summer for the bright lights of the city...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 27 Jul 09 - 01:40 PM

Did the D&B help clear your cold/flu, S?
P.S: I could have done with a second home in Durham the other night - on the train there, I was told the last one back to Newcastle was 11.45 pm, so I had a jog from the good Rowing Club singaround at about 11.15 and got there, so I thought, just in time, to be told the last was 11.25 pm; so it was the late night bus at 12.30 am, and bed just before 2 am.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Jul 09 - 03:41 PM

I doubt there's anything medicinal about D&B, WAV - better still, on Saturday it was Lifeboat Day in Fleetwood, glorious sunshine & sea-air, clear skies & good friends. Thus revived we went to a late night showing of the new Harry Potter film (see elsewhere for my evaluation; namely the OP of the Folklore: What is Folklore? thread, which I wrote on Sunday morning, but owing to technical difficulties it didn't get posted until today) & stuffed ourselves silly with popcorn & M&Ms.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sue Allan
Date: 27 Jul 09 - 04:36 PM

Nobody mentioned Spangles. Many a late night reminiscence session has started 'Do you remember Spangles?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Jul 09 - 05:05 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spangles

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sue Allan
Date: 27 Jul 09 - 05:43 PM

Oooh, thanks Suibhne O'Piobaireachd for the link!
Was quite dismayed to read though that 'Spangles have become shorthand for lazy nostalgia for the time, as in the phrase "Do you remember Spangles?" I don't recall our nostalgia being lazy, but we probably were, not to mention tired and emotional. That's nostalgia for you: it's never what it was.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:43 AM

As far as I know Dandelion and Burdock is/was based on Dandelion root. The leaves of the Dandelion are used as a mild diuretic.

I usually steer clear of non-sugar soft drinks, though. Saccharin was used in this type of drink for year before many countries banned it as a suspected carcinogen. Aspartame, a modern chemical replacement, has been blamed for many illnesses.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:50 AM

'Do you remember Spangles?'

The secret was to suck them until the dimple in the middle turned into a hole then you had something that resembled a square fruit Polo (can you still get fruit Polos?).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:08 PM

So what else would we have in the Village sweetie shop?

I for one prefer a Marathon to a Snickers. WTF is snickers anyway? Some form of constipation?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:16 PM

Got to have that really hard, black licorice that we use to call Spanish. We used to boil it with water to make a licorice water drink. Oooh, and sherbert flying saucers....and plain chocolate walnut whips.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:17 PM

I remember sherbert, and the Australian rock-band of the same name.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:53 PM

I remember sherbert

It's still there, WAV - see HERE for the E. Trad Bassett's version which should be available from most corner sweetshops in Tyneside.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:02 AM

You've got to have Fisherman's Friends, & Uncle Joe's mint balls.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:17 AM

And gobstoppers that change colour and cinder toffee - and ice cream wafer sandwiches.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:22 AM

Fisherman's Friends, & Uncle Joe's mint balls.

Ah! The Lancastrian delicacies! I got addicted to UJMBs when we first moved over here, but as they don't do a sugar-free then I've had to go cold-turkey. Fisherman's Friends are another matter of course, and no Folk Night would be complete without a packet of sugar-frees which will, I promise, enhance the taste of any good English Ale.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 06:14 AM

Of course I am told that a few years ago the "in" drink in trendie London night clubs was ground up Fishermans Friends in vodka!
We don't want anything like that in our village pub do we ?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 07:04 AM

I did have a friend in a village I once lived in who was addicted to Chlorodyne and rough cider.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 09:01 AM

If, as usual, there's no mead at the bar, I have cider - Chlorodyneless, I hope!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 09:55 AM

Real cider is fermented with dead rats in haunted barns adjoining run-down orchards in the shadow of Glastonbury Tor; it's sold for 20p a pint in pubs like The Riflemans and is so potent you can't even remember drinking it when you finally emerge into nominal consciousness at some point the following day whilst trying to hitch north on the M5 on a slipway somewhere near Bridgwater.

In the words of Mark E. Smith:

I was so sick I couldn't walk or sit;
Since then I've not touched it.

Actually that's one of my all-time favourite Fall songs; essential listening on the Juke Box in the re-Imagined Village pub. Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CJsD_LzXt0

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 10:07 AM

Shine on - that stuff in The Riflemans is legendary. I had a pint once and have had a peculiar craving for it ever since.

I hope they sell scratchings in the pub in the re-imagined village; the best ones all come from the Midlands. Bostin!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:33 PM

Roll-mops, pickled eggs, jellied eels, cockles and mussels (very dead-o), crab sticks, ocean tails, trotters, tripe, spleen hurrah, tongue, oysters, and endless Yorkshire puddings on the bar of a Sunday. I have a recent fondness for Nobby's Nuts and our local even sells bars of chocolate; last week I sat dunking a Picnic bar into my pint of London Pride.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:35 PM

PS - One of the above bar snacks isn't real, at least not in these parts. Can you guess which it is?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:45 PM

My re-imagined village had Brakespeare's Double Drop at a single one of your earth pounds per bottle. The village was called Lidl and I bought a pallet of these delights this very afternoon.

Don't all rush at once.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:49 PM

Whelks.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:45 PM

Lidl? A bit upmarket for our tastes though it used to do amazing chocolate & maybe still des - and Stollen at Christmas. Anyway - I bought three bottles of Greene King St. Edmunds for £2.50 at B&M Bargains on Sunday. It's a lager-like beer best drank cold and entirely unsuitable for real-ale bores & pewter tankard twerps (The Snail once threatened me with a violent treatment if I asked for it in his local) and the fact they're flogging it off at £2.50 for three down at B&M in Cleveleys speaks heaps for its popularity.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:58 PM

Lidl is definitely very posh! Have you seen the shiny big cars and heard the plummy accents wot shop there? And the biggest give away is when the owners of same posh cars and accents, don't notice you or say things like "please" and "thank you" or "Oops, excuse me?", y'know the sort of polite niceties & stuff that only us smelly common types say.

Can we have a village guillotine maybe, and y'know a village 'revolution' sorta thing - mainly for the noovo rich (yes I hate them burning up the lanes in their big black 4x4's, with red dyed skin, presumably pricey market clothes and just general fucking horribleness), but also for posh people what shop at Lidl and are secretly embarrassed by it.. They really aughta know to stay 'in their place' and go to Waitrose.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:59 PM

Lidl - yer go in for some baked beans and come out with a fission reactor.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:00 PM

Oops, getting Aldi muddled with Lidl there. The local Lidl is mainly filled with slow moving single file traffic of coffin dodgers.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:01 PM

Lidl - yer go in for some baked beans and come out with a fission reactor.

He heh! 'Tis true enough1

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:30 PM

I quite enjoy the cheapo supermarket experience. The old girls tell you about their operation and you get tins of peaches big enough to go over Niagara in. We occasionally visit Waitrose when we're in the vicinity and it's all 3rd wives in VW Toerags with flat pumps and navy tights and a face to curdle milk.

Lidl were selling off their fishing bags for £12.99. Think of a square, rather smart camera bag with enough boxes inside to keep the most anally retentive compartmentier happy. Bliss.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:03 PM

Oooh, further to Greene King SO'P, I recently visited Bury in Suffolk and had a most fascinating snout around their museum there.
I tell you what the building is like Willie Wonka's, so brilliant. Greene King

Looked like something outa 'Metropolis'. I almost imagined I saw wee sweaty 'serfs' slaving away at vast mysterious bubbling chemical cauldrons, with big dials and stuff everywhere. If we move, I want to work there.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:45 PM

Stocks! And any of them snotty rich buggers who come around and try to buy second homes gets put in 'em and pelted with pig shit.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:49 PM

SWIZZELS MEGA DOUBLE LOLLIPOPS in the sweet shop for me, please. And REFRESHER CHEWS.

And sod yer Greene King! We'll dismantle the Three Tuns Brewery and rebuild it brick for brick and get drunk as skunks on Triple X... in fact we could do worse than model the village on Bishop's Castle...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 04:03 PM

Actually, I don't want to work at the brewery, lovely as the one Spleen proposes is. I want to work in the local bakery! Like my Nan, I love baking bread and cakes and stuff. And while I work in the local bakers I'll be researching funny old recipes with nettles and err elderberies and forcing them upon the villagers.

PS I HATEHATEHATE village fetes. So can we have a completely fucked up village fete muh more in line with Saturnalia or something please? A day of anarchy and misrule...

As for sweeties, there's nothing to compare with Summer Isle's Post Office?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sue Allan
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 04:24 PM

Funny old recipes, yay! Elderflower fritters, blackcurrant leaf sorbet, lavender ice cream, snow pancakes and hedgerow jelly (this last not hedge clipping but assorted berries). Every one of 'em genuine and all I've made a winner ... not tried the snow pancakes though. Need old fashioned winters for that.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 04:33 PM

Sue Allan, can I have you as an Auntie in the re-imagined village (if you are under fourty we can be cousins)? My realish family's embarrassingly thin right now so 're-imagining' it, would help heaps!

..Hope you like cats?

Go on, post some traditional country recipe involving fritters or buns or summat.. We have loads of Elders in the lanes btw.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 04:44 PM

Make that 'forty' not 'fourty'.. this bloody Mudcat place has some insidious effects on one - mutter mutter!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:20 PM

We should have a wind farm. With multi coloured psychedelic propellers - dotted around the village like giant triffids. We should have a few triffids, too.

We should ignore this man. This is real:

I am very concerned that these wind farms will affect the natural wind patterns thereby affecting weather patterns. A consensus of my friends who are scientists believe that a wind farm of this scale will shift the earth off its rotational axis and send it hurtling toward the sun in a matter of decades. Who stupid are these Brits? Don't they realize that human actions on such a scale have worldwide consequences? Such an attempt to destroy the planet should be considered an act against humanity and declaration of war. Where is the condemnation from the UN?
— Lyle Vos

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sue Allan
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:33 PM

Crow Sister I'm very happy to be your Auntie! an't be a cousin,sadly,as over fift. Do I like cats?! I've shared my house with cats for the past thirty years, although one of the current pair is the biggest delinquent I've ever had, so I may reviewing the resident cats policy ...

Here's my recipe for lavender and honey ice cream - seasonal as lavender's in flower at the moment:

- Pour 250ml milk and 450 ml cream into a heavy-based saucepan, add 40 sprigs of fresh lavender (or less of dried) –use blossom end only. Bring slowly to the boil and leave to infuse for 15-20 minutes. This will give a delicious flavour.
- Whisk 6 egg yolks (you'll have to find something else to do with the whites: meringues?. Add a little of the lavender cream and then mix the two together.
- Cook over a low heat until the mixture barely thickens, and lightly coats the back of a spoon (be careful it does not curdle).
- Whisk 150ml clear honey into the warm custard, sieve to remove the lavender.
- Chill thoroughly and then freeze, whisking several times.
- Serve decorated with sprigs of lavender. Enjoy!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:42 PM

"PS I HATEHATEHATE village fetes. So can we have a completely fucked up village fete muh more in line with Saturnalia or something please?"

Our village fete is tombola torment by day, deranged debauch by night. All the women wear sunglasses until the next evening so they've either been rogered by the devil or got totally rat-arsed and can't see till noon.
My favourite is S****** in Devon, nameless because it's so posh you can pick up incredibly excellent stuff on the bring and buy and we shall return in a week or so. My wife bought some antique linen for about 20p and they said 'oh just take all of it, nobody cares for it round here.' I copped for some marvellous board games from the 1930s. Mrs Glue also bought some gorgeous period jewellery that looked like Mrs Simpson's but she lost it that same day so we assume it needed to return home.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:46 PM

So can we have a completely fucked up village fete muh more in line with Saturnalia or something please?

As long as we have one of the real ones too. With a crockery stall (for smashing), an unSplat-able Rat, a tombola stall laden with weird perfumes, weirder liqueurs and lurking in the middle an outdated jar of Marmite, and at least one stall where you can't work out exactly what you're supposed to do or what the prize is (if any), and the stallholder always seems to be deep in conversation with someone else when you go up so you never do find out. And a cake stall, a home made jam stall with smudgy handwritten labels, a White Elephant stall and a bookstall with books which have the aura of rare antiquarian discoveries when you buy them but lose it (like pebbles from the beach) when you get them home. And a tannoy run by someone who knows everyone, and knows all the in-jokes too. And a few of the local kids showing off their capoeira or Morris (fluffy) or country dancing (Irish) - and all the other kids running wild and then running wilder than that, as if they've never had the chance to play chase in a big field ever before in their lives.

That would do me.

That'll do me.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 04:25 AM

Cakes, creams, conserves, crockery - fine; but 1 or 2 need to re-stiffen their upper-lips a tad - no swearing in the village, please.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 05:03 AM

no swearing in the village, please.

Fuck. Cunt. Bollocks. Shit. Morris. Bastard. Twat. Arse. Folk.

In the village swearing will be mandatory, WAV - the only language that won't be allowed is the racist bullshit you publish & promote as your Life's Work.

In the re-Imagined Village the corner shop will be run by Mr Patel, a Scottish born 2nd Generation Pakistani Moslem who sells everything from Samosas to Selkirk Bannocks to Polish Apple Cakes. The takeaways will be Chinese, Gurkha and Indian, and there will be a tiny Traditional Fish & Chip shop, like The Old Stables in Ewyas Harold which is one the finest in the country, specially given its proximity to the sea. The Village will be a perfect microcosm of the multi-cultural and multi-ethnic reality of our United Kingdom with favour given to diversity, eccentricity, disability, and special needs of every stripe.

And people will be free to park anywhere they like.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 06:22 AM

Fuck. Cunt. Bollocks. Shit. Morris. Bastard. Twat. Arse. Folk.

Cake! Girls! Folk!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 07:32 AM

Can we bowl for a pig at the the fete?*

As for the swearing, can we widen that to include all sorts of vulgarities please?**






*I've never actually seen bowling for a pig at a village fete, but being a lifelong fan of Giles cartoons have always wondered what you would do if you won. I vote for being able to let it snuffle for acorns in the common ground woods next to Winstanley Common.


**There should be several copies of the Profanisaurus Rex in the village library (an ideal place to float an air biscuit for the delectation of fellow browsers).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 07:42 AM

I vote for being able to let it snuffle for acorns in the common ground woods next to Winstanley Common.

Seconded.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 11:32 AM

My wife, at the age of 6, on holiday in East Anglia won a 6 week old pig. She called him, with great imagination, 'Porkie' and took him for walks, much like a dog, he became house trained. As he grew he he went to live on a farm, but not knowing he was a pig, and regarding himself as a dog, did not like the other pigs at all.
She also won a goat, but that's another story.
In "our village" can we take pigs for "walkies"?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 12:52 PM

I've never tried one, so, if it's snuffle wins a truffle, may I have a bite, please?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 01:38 PM

The truffle is a mere trifle, it's the porcine's pleasure that's the priority.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 02:33 PM

A poet who called himself WAV
Got into a right old kerfuffle
He decided he wanted to have
A bite of a well snuffled truffle
The piggie who'd snuffled the truffle
Squared up to the bard for a ruck
WAV showed us how fast he could shuffle
While whimpering "Shit! Bugger! Fuck!"

If we are to have a day of misrule, the pig must be crowned king.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 03:15 PM

..."Above the storms of passion" (Bode's hymn - "O Jesus I have promised"), we need a good village choir, with evensong at least once per week.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: glueman
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 04:32 PM

Baggsie I play the serpent. Music's missing a good serpent solo.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: open mike
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 09:03 PM

these are three different herbs
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/d/dandel08.html
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/b/burdoc87.html
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/h/horwhi33.html

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:44 AM

In "our village" can we take pigs for "walkies"?

But of course! In our old village in Durham one could still see the remains of the pigsties that each of the old colliery houses had in their gardens; an eerie reminder of a life long vanished. Category D took away a good third of the village, including the old school, leaving a brownfield site that was turned into woodland (complete with old playground) which was all very nice - and a great place for the local kids to torch stolen cars & poachers to bag rabbits (maybe I should add that over on the Folklore: What is Folkore? thead?) until they built the posh houses on one of the finest pieces of ancient pasture because it lay within the village and wasn't, therefore, protected as greenbelt. The soul rather went out of the place after that. So - pigs in; soulless modern developments out.

Great story though, Ron - meant to ask you about it last night; I would have played McGinties Meal an Ale but it's a bit early for the harvest yet. Great night! Vintage Steamer in fact; makes a man proud so it does...

Here's free-range piggery out near Houghall, Durham City in the Summer of 2006:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNfqNLSTmts

Last time we passed, the pigs had gone and the sty was overgrown with weeds.

*

..."Above the storms of passion" (Bode's hymn - "O Jesus I have promised"), we need a good village choir, with evensong at least once per week.

We used to sing Jesus I Have Promised at school to a very modern tune with rock n' roll piano stylings - something like This - so it's not one I would recommend. I like the old hymns, the harvest ones especially. Maybe Ron could be our choirmaster, as he knows a thing or two in this respect. Evensong would be every night, although I would hope we'd adopt more Catholic practices with respect of Mass & suchlike ceremonies - after all, this is what our ancient churches were built for.   Otherwise something wholesome in the Anglo-Catholic tradition with William Lawes Psalm Tones and Henry Purcell's Hear My Prayer O Lord and other settings from The Book of Common Prayer, which, being one of the glories of English spirituality, we'd have in the church along with Roman Catholic Missal and Latin Psalters. In fact - my Gnostic leanings notwithstanding - I worship at The Church of Abraham, so I'd like to see all Abrahamic Spiritual traditions catered for in our church - be they Christian, Jewish or Islamic. In fact our church should be a reflection of the diversity of human spirituality in 21st Century Britain; if the Pagans want to venerate our Green Man & Triple Hare carvings, then so be it; if New Agers want to Circle Dance in the aisles (as the Church does stand on quite an important Ley Line) then they will be welcome to do so; if the local Goths which to commune with the dead in the graveyard, then they will not be disturbed.

So come-all-ye to our Church of Human Spirituality; Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Rastas, Wiccans, Pagans, Hedgewitches, Moslems, Shamans, Jews, Christians. All welcome here! Apart from Fundamentalists, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons of course. No room for Absolute Truths in our church!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:08 AM

"So - pigs in; soulless modern developments out."

Amen. In my 'other' village, they souled off/out the playing field and antiquated but perfectly functional village hall where the jumbles etc. used to be, bulldozed it all, built a vomit inducing 'executive estate' of faux classical houses, and a big shiny new village hall with massive car park, which at night looks like something like a cross between an undercover shopping centre and airport. At least the residents of the faux classical executive estate complain about the noise of village hall traffic. Haha! And the local youths have somewhere to gather late at night too now... Before, the poor fuckers had to sit at the bus stop!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 06:28 AM

...it's a bit stiffer - only one swearword this time!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:30 AM

they souled off/out the playing field

Souled off; bang on, CS!

...it's a bit stiffer

Fnaar! Fnaar! Glad it turns you on, WAV! Actually, I was expecting Walkabout #219, which I would rewrite as:

Let each Human Individual have their own Church -
Equal, before God*, with the others' Search.

* Let God mean whatever we want it to in this context; God is our personal manifestation of the divine, however so culturally determined that might be the experience remains, ultimately, subjective.

Otherwise, here's my alternative verses to Brian O'Linn which I thought I might sing at the singaround in The Siberian Khatru tonight if anyone fancies it.

Brian O' Linn met the devil one day,
Who showed him a girl lying dead in the hay;
with her he did sport 'til the night it crept in -
There's no chance of child, said Brian O'Linn!

Brian O'Linn he did fuck an old horse
But he got himself stuck and to make matters worse
the horse it ran into the market square then -
Still, they can't see me dick, says Brian O'Linn!

And Brian O'Linn he shot an old dog
And inside it's belly he found an frog
And inside the frog he found a gold ring -
That's the third time this week, said Brian O'Linn!*

And Brian O'Linn found a lump in his balls,
So he picks up the phone and the doctor he calls;
That was three months ago, now he's bald and he's thin -
Sure I fit me old clothes, said Brian O'Linn!

And Brian O'Linn in his coffin did lie;
Dressed up in his best with clean boots and a tie;
Six foot underground and the grave all filled in -
Ah, they can't hear me knocking, says Brian O'Linn!

Brian O'Linn up to heaven did go,
And the light shone so bright, and as white as the snow,
And the angels were singing with no thought of a sin -
I could do with a fag, says Brian O'Linn

So Brian O'Linn he went straight down to hell
Where he filled his owld lungs with the sulphurous smell
And he warmed his cold hands by the fires with a grin -
I'll fetch in the coals, says Brian O'Linn!

* This verse dedicated to Hugh Lupton.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:34 AM

I think this is worth getting right:

And Brian O'Linn he shot an old dog
And inside it's belly he found an old frog
And inside the old frog he found a gold ring -
That's the third time this week, said Brian O'Linn!

Anyone got any more?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 08:07 AM

Just for you WAV: My first word was "BUM"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:20 AM

Thanks for that, CS - I love Wish You Were Here. It's showing at the The re-Imagined Village Hall Cinema Club as part of the essential British Films Season. Next week - Rita and Sue and Bob Too...

Suggestions for future presentations welcome!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 09:43 AM

For the Autumn season:

Kes

Get Carter

The Plank

The Wicker Man

Quadrophenia

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 10:08 AM

Get Carter - The first, and only, Stottie Cake Western! Now there's something WAV might appreciate, and the soundtrack too; I'm sure Morricone himself couldn't have composed a better one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kMhcf8eyiA

Forgive me, as an ex-pat Geordie I'm apt to go dewy eyed over stuff like this, capturing as it does the long-vanished industrial landscapes of my South Northumbrian childhood - including Blyth Power Station (which also featured, wierdly enough, as one of the sets used in Alien 3) even though the Gateshead multi-storey car-park still stands.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 10:12 AM

Here's the Get Carter opening titles with the Deadly Avenger Remix; amazing stuff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZIfYhOcxb4

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 10:41 AM

"...which also featured, wierdly enough, as one of the sets used in Alien 3"

That must have been inside the prison I assume. The presence of the excellent Brian Glover (who plays the sports master in Kes) and David Fincher's bleak vision of the prison colony makes this film the best of the sequels in my opinion. I might be the only person in the world who thinks this.

Can we have American Werewolf in London as part of the International programme (for the Slaughtered Lamb scenes alone)?

Great link to the opening titles SOP. Sheffield synth-pop wonks the Human League also did a version of the Get Carter dee-dee music on their excellent 1982 album Dare.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 12:39 PM

One of the things we can surely agree on, S. - the village bakers must make stotties...and..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 01:35 PM

For the next season, can we have "Hell is a City", "A Taste of Honey" and "If..."?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:01 PM

One of the things we can surely agree on, S. - the village bakers must make stotties...and..?

No! No!! No!!! No!!!! FFS, WAV - how long have you been living here? Here's the Golden Rule: Only Greggs can make Stotties. Simple. On my trips to Tyneside I bring a few back & freeze them, although we've given up having bread in the house of late. Out & about I must confess to finding Lancastrian barmcakes the equal of any stottie. My ideal picnic these days is half a chicken and bag of barmcakes from the Abingdon Barbecue in Blackpool then off along to the sun lounge on the North Pier to make up sarnies.   

So - we'll have stotties & barmcakes shipped in and leave the village bakers to less specialised pies, breads & cakes. On our recent Devon jaunt I got seriously into the bread pudding in the village bakers in Great Torrington - and on a jaunt across the border to Bude we stumbled on the perfect Cornish pasty. Mindblowing.

*

Great film suggestions, you chaps. Forgot about the Glover link between Kes & Alien 3; one of the greats; much loved, much missed.

How about a Shane Meadows season?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 04:52 PM

If we must have brand names, then we must have Warburton's white slice loafs. Agreed re. barmcakes, S., and how about Lancashire's Eccles cakes? I've enjoyed quite a few as I used to live there. And, as for Cornish pasties...

Poem 55 of 230: TIN-MINERS' LUNCH

Visiting relatives in Cornwall,
    I saw the mines that miners mined,
The type of lunch they liked to eat,
    And heard this tale about it all:

The real Cornish pasty's thick crust
    Keeps the cooked food inside it warm,
And, when it is properly done,
    A fall down the mine won't make it bust.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:40 PM

Babs yed wi thelmet on for me!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:22 PM

Babs yed wi thelmet

Try Googling that and see where it gets you. Unless we're back in the land of Tripe & Puro begad in which case a translation would be appreciated.

Eccles cakes?

Chorley Cakes are better, IMO - though when it comes to Lancastrian afters nothing compares to CSTP.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:31 PM

Erm... "Baby's head with the helmet on."

Otherwise known as steak and kidney pudding in a little foil tray.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 07:39 PM

Manchester Tart for me! A school dinner staple.

Here's a recipe

And here's the posh version. They'd serve it like this up at the manor house. Incidently, who's going to live there? I'd recommend Peter Cushing or Christopher Lee.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 03:42 AM

Sheffield synth-pop wonks the Human League also did a version of the Get Carter dee-dee music on their excellent 1982 album Dare.

Not being familiar with the works of the Human League (sadly I lost touch after Empire State Human), I mentioned this to my wife Rapunzel, who is very much in touch with the Human League. Off she goes to her vinyl shelf & pulls out a pristine copy of Dare - a classic piece of 1980s graphic design (which sadly so many Folk artistes would attempt to imitate with but frail irony) and soon the house is thrilling to the sublime synth-pop glories of another age. The great thing is Rapunzel was only eight-years-old when she bought this album! A true English sound and an instant icon of the shelf - along with Seamus Ennis's Bonny Bunch of Roses (which is how a folk album should look!), Peter Maxwell Davis' Eight songs for a Mad King and the first Back Door album with its iconic image of the Lion Inn on Blakey Ridge. Also in there is the Bananas single, recorded by the Manband live at The Roundhouse at the same gig that provided the live sides of Back into the Future:   

Cultural Icons - 1st August 2009

*

"Baby's head with the helmet on."

I love steak & kidney puddings, but for reasons of health find I must now abstain, though here in Fleetwood we have one of the finest chippies in the county, offering sit down facilities, with both Holland's and home-mades on the menu at prices so keen one might only resist for so long. Time to throw caution to the wind I think!

*

One of the things we can surely agree on, S.

Hmmmm. We're offering you an education here, WAV - a crash-course in Englishness in which, I'm afraid, you're in no position to disagree. You are a novitiate, as can be shown from your somewhat wayward posts on the subject over the years of which the OP is typical. All you have to do is sit back and soak in these cultural offerings as being essential to the Engish Scheme to which you aspire. So a little less recalcitrance in future; people are giving of their time freely here, to ensue your repatriation is a happy one, so try and show some appreciation, eh?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 03:55 AM

I see I'm not keeping up with the upbeat pace of things going on in the village here - but some late submissions for the village hall film club:

Entertaining Mr. Sloane
Nuts in May
And anything by Dennis Potter

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:12 AM

Here WAV, see the perfect page for any wannabe Englishman come foodie below:

If I buy 'cake' from the bakers, I always get those leaden bricks of sugar encrusted Bread Pudding. You can use leftovers to shore up your homes foundations. Or sometimes Lardy Cake which is a sweet yeast dough *folded* with crushed sugar lumps, currants and err lard oddly enough.

For my sins I also have Dorothy Hartley's (you couldn't make a name that that up) Food in England

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:22 AM

Have a care there, CS - it's just gone nine in the fecking morning & the most I can think of at this ungodly hour is a slice of my Patented Porridge Turnover (which I no longer make as a dome BTW; since investing in a silicon loaf-cake thing which gives me oblongs...).

I will return to your links later in the day when I have more of stomach for them. And don't you just love the graphics of Food in England? That's how folk albums should look too; wholesome & homely!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:36 AM

Coffee & browsing while waiting for my young man to raise his sleepy self this morn. And this threads just given me an excuse to revisit Goodbye, Mr. Chips which it seems you can watch all of on YouTube.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:40 AM

Mention of the film 'Aliens 3' (an execrable film, in my opinion) reminds me of seeing 'Aliens 4' in a Warsaw hotel bedroom. The soundtrack had been dubbed into Polish and I had a slight fever at the time - an unrepeatable experience!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:51 AM

Okay. 9.49 am. Just made my coffee, now I'm off up to work whilst Rapunzel doses through until noon. No urgency today on account of the rain, though later proposed excitements include shopping for a new toilet seat. I think we might go for This, Gentoos being our favourite...

Otherwise - I'll see your Mr Chips and raise you a Colonel Blimp.

*

Shit, man - just noticed this on You Tube as well, one of the coolest Summer grooves ever; Suliman's guest rap (in around 4.00) just melts...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn-qn1yZGuU

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 04:56 AM

Alien 4? Hell, we watched AVP - Requiem the other week; that's the AVP sequel, dig? Worse yet - AVP 3 is on its way!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 05:23 AM

Crikey, how did I forget Withnail and I?

Cheesy oatcakes anyone (off the Staffordshire/Cheshire variety of course)?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 05:34 AM

You'll be liking Tribe Called Quest Then.

Anyway Mr. Chips is now on hold.. Bluddy YouTube nostalgia hour innit!

Who Killed Jane
Straight Outta Compton
Gangsta Nation
And as loud as you like - Welcome to the Terrodome

I stole a Public Enemy target long sleeve t. off my fella many years back, it was my favourite top for ages. Until it fell off.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 05:36 AM

Keep up Sugarfoot, I flagged up Werewolf in London & Withnail ages ago for the what village pub debate. I vote Slaughtered Lamb I think.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 05:46 AM

Cheesy Oatcakes? Wasn't that a wholesome schoolboy game....

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 06:17 AM

MUTTER ALERT! MUTTER ALERT! MUTTER ALERT! MUTTER ALERT!

I'm not a great fan of Brassed off and The Full Monty because they were killed by the hype; if I'd come across them on a rainy afternoon on BBC2 things might have been different. And how can we take Robert Carlisle seriously as a Yorkshireman? This is Begbie for Christ's sake!

I don't much like Four Weddings and Funeral Either, though I might have done if they'd gone for the title proposed for the American which was (legend has it) Toffs on Heat. I've nothing against Andie McDowell - Groundhog Day is a firm favourite - but I resent mawkishness. I had to sit through Peter's Friends once and was, as a consequence, physically sick.

I don't get the Political Soapboxing of Amber Films either, however much I admire their no-budget aesthetic; too mired in rosy sentimentality and ruined by the shite acting of the ubiquitous (and eponymous?) leading lady, especially when we see her alongside real people.

I love Shane Meadows - his This is England is a very crucial piece of work.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 06:44 AM

I liked Made in England up till the end where the plot goes a bit tits up and "here's the melodramatic morally improving end sequence" IMO.
Scum and Made in Britain are classics of that ilk though.

Apart from that, ditto your mutters above SO'P, I hate self-conscious affected English stuff.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 06:57 AM

I love This is England. Just got my first pair of Dockers, age 42 and I shall wear them for the rest of my life (er, not the same pair). Although I was never a rude by, growing up in the far southern suburbs of Brum in the late 70's early 80s Two Tone was very dear to our hearts (I used to sit next to the sister of the lead singer of Spizz Energi (Where's Captain Kirk?) who were signed to the label so got lots of stickers etc straight from the record company. I was more of a rocker at heart really, but still love Two-Tone to this day.

Agree with SOP regarding the FWAAF and would include Notting Hill et al in with that particular bushel of bilge, although I can live with Brassed Off as I like Pete Posthlethwaite. For the Horror season perhaps we could start with Shaun of the Dead followed by Dog Soldiers and The Hole? Perhaps even weekly re-runs of Hammer House of Horror.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 07:09 AM

A few of the above cakes I'm yet to try, but the Manchester tarts, mentioned by SC, are not - my late nan used to bake them of a weekend and, as a kid, I, of course, had to try them hot, by way of quality control. I think Lancashire folk have a good reputation for baking, and I'm not going to argue with that.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 08:48 AM

Ooh, Spizz. The band were a minor passion of mine. I've got all the singles (up to No Room) and even own a copy of Spiky Dream Flowers (although I admit I didn't buy it new). Never saw anything by them on Two-Tone, though - whenabouts was that?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 08:56 AM

You're right - they were on Rough Trade rather than Two-Tone, and I think Kenneth Spiers must have had his finger in several pies. Such a long time ago - my memory must be on the blink!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 09:12 AM

Doc. Martins - I got my first pair at 15 or so I think and I painted wild flowers on them. My current pair are cherry red. If in a semi-punk frame of mind, they get teamed with fishnets - electric pink for preference. No, I haven't grown up..

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 12:29 PM

I liked Brassed Off, hype notwithstanding. I insist we have a brass band, preferably dressed in pink and host an annual competition. And of course, what self-respecting village would not have the godlike genius that is Pete Postlethwaite propping up the bar of the village pub? Smoking or non-smoking? Whaddaya think?

And we have to have a rushcart!

And can we have scary night at the film club in the village hall? Straw Dogs? Witchfinder General?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 05:51 PM

Kenneth Spiers

I've often wondered whether Jon Boden's mate was related to the mediaevalist John Spiers (who waxed lyrical about the supposed pagan overtones of Gawain's antagonist the Green Knight). Now I've got another possible connection to wonder about!

All together now:

Cold!
Windy!
City!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 07:01 PM

Cheesy Oatcakes

Two Folky Anagrams:

1) Cheeky Seacoast - neat, eh? Especially living so close to the cheekiest (and cheesiest) seacoast of them all. Passing through earlier this evening the various Hen Sides were out in force in all their bold rudery & wondrously glorious to behold as well; a heightened & transcendent sense of liveried misrule. And mildly threatening too. I like it. But then I love Blackpool.

Another film for our season: Funny Bones.

2) Ecstasy Hoecake - sounds vaguely hip & folky, if that's at all possible; never done E, though I once saw Martin Carthy in the aftermath of some very nice acid, circa 1984/5 - so not the best, just - nice. I remember he did the Third Man theme whilst ranting on about America. That was at The Bridge in Newcastle. Maybe I'm getting mixed up. Peter Bellamy smoked a lot of dope & was the coolest folkie I ever met.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 07:08 PM

Ah, I sometimes wish I still took drugs...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 03:54 AM

Ah, I sometimes wish I still took drugs...

I haven't touched anything since a few of us waded our way through several acres of high-grade home-grown sinsemilla circa 1992. A memorable evening in our beloved castle, which changed my thinking on such matters once and for all. Clean as a whistle ever since, yet much of my thinking remains thusly defined. In the re-Imagined Village, therefore, I would hope several lofts and greenhouses would be kitted out for production - and those anciently grazed sacred pastures pored over by the faithful for a more spiritual autumnal harvest by of the Primal Psilocybin Sacrament.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 05:38 AM

For what it's worth, I prefer your post-1992 way, S; and as for gardening in our verdant village...

"Green/eco-friendly gardening is native gardening, and vegetables, plus other consumables, should be the only exotic-flora we plant - as doing so can help limit food-miles, etc. By filling our other garden spaces with natives, we use less water and other resources, whilst aiding the native-fauna that, over the centuries, evolved with them. (Even high-nectar exotics, such as Buddleia, that are very attractive to SOME native-fauna, should be avoided, because they upset nature's/God's balance – God created evolution, too, that is.)

Our green gardens, with their vegies and natives, can be made still greener by the addition of compost heaps/bins; a wildlife pond – for native frogs, newts, and so on, rather than exotic goldfish; bee- and bird-boxes, plus carefully- selected feeders; rain- and grey-water vats; by growing everything organically - including thrifty home-propagation plus species-swapping; and by leaving some lush untidy patches, decaying branches, etc." (from here).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 05:52 AM

Can we keep this one rhetoric free, WAV? You've posted this stuff as many bloody times I could recite it backwards in my sleep. Any new thoughts? Fresh words? Observations? Each day a new day after all...

And for the millionth time God did not create evolution, no more than he created the principles of Atheism & Humanism of which our awareness of evolution is such a huge part. Remember what happened the last time you posted that on this thread? You had a day in the village stocks for the propagation of sentiments against the common good of mutually diverse humanity. Believe in God by all means, but if you can countenance the notion of such divinity (and the other ravings in The Bible) then stick to what it says in Genesis.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 07:04 AM

Reminds me of a line by Stewart Lee.

"What changed my mind about evolution was Richard Dawkins. Something as complex and intricate and beautiful as Richard Dawkins can't possibly have developed by pure chance! No, Richard Dawkins has been put there by God, to test us - like fossils. And facts."

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 09:13 AM

Stewart Lee - That sketch of the pope sitting on a fart cushion and then becoming bacon's Head IV might be the funniest thing I've seen on TV since . . . er, the previous funniest thing.

As it's Sunday I'm spending it in my garden (planting what the fup I like in my green pagan realm) listening to the radio. After years of the News Huddlines, Les Dawson, Roy Castle etc I fancy listening to something similarly gentle and amusing. Such choice! Round the Horne, The Navy Lark, Hanckock etc

Count Arthur Strong for me.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 12:19 PM

A "green pagan realm" (SJ) would entail close ties with native flora and fauna, yes?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 01:32 PM

Count Arthur Strong

We love him dearly & regard him as a national treasure.

A "green pagan realm" (SJ) would entail close ties with native flora and fauna, yes?

Which is pretty rich coming from someone who began this thread by waxing lingual about a non-native weeping willow. Your ecological concerns are sorely suspect given your other views on cultural and ethnic indigeneity, WAV.

Today in Blackpool Zoo I bought a bamboo whistle flute from the Philippines with I serenaded some North American Tree Porcupines. I believe they're living feral in some parts of the UK but seemed very content swaying in the wind & sun at the top of their tree.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 03:12 PM

Well, in a way, that's pertinent, S - you've been in a prickly mood ever since you missed Durham with that flu!...but spine-tingling performance (lament?) or no, I'm afraid we disagree re. zoos, too: no zoo in the village, please...

Poem 203 of 230: IN SITU

When faced with a critical view,
    A zoo's main raison d'être is -
The conservation of species;
    But this can be done in situ.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 05:28 PM

Prickly? No way, WAV. And tree porcupines aren't all that prickly either; like me, they're totally blissed out & extend unto you peace, serenity, joy, respect & brotherhood in the realm of material existence. They, like me, will not, however, tolerate your self-serving bullshit which you'd really be better off without, or else keeping to yourself.

And we will have a zoo in the village; I love zoos; my wife and I are members of Blackpool Zoo as well as the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland (Edinburgh Zoo basically, which gets us into Chester & Bristol Zoos too). In situ? In an idea world maybe, in which case there'd be no need for conservation in the first place.

Interesting in this respect is my on-line album project Jesus at the Zoo. Feel free to befriend.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 04:33 AM

In an idea world maybe,

Note the typo, which raises a certain pertinence perhaps, however so unwittingly, for even as I sit here looking out across Morecambe Bay to mountains of the Lake District on this quite beautiful morning (aren't they all?) I might ponder the nature of the idea, the ideal, and even the idyll, which I dare say this thread is to a certain extent; a series of such idylls, however so subjective, but all forming an objective totality in which we might reside content. To quote from Wiki (it won't happen again I promise you):

An idyll can... be a kind of painting, usually representing a pastor and his animals in a rural setting. They are depicted in a natural way, with the three components - man, animal and the environment - in a harmonious unity, preventing the picture from being either a landscape, or a genre, or just an image of an animal. Nature in this combination is presented in an unsophisticated, realistic fashion.

The subjects of such pictures are usually simple people living in uncivilised conditions, featuring naïvety in their thinking and yet leading a happy and cheerful life. The approach to the presentation is not humorous, but emotional, sometimes sentimental.

Food for thought perhaps even (all together now) on a Monday morning, but it was with such an idyll that WAV opened this thread which has proved to be an education for us all with life affecting consequences. For example, the drink of choice in Chez Sedayne right now is ice-cold cans of ASDA's Dandelion & Burdock.

Anyway, I think we've established that if ideal there is in the re-Imagined Village it is an all inclusive reality wherein we might celebrate a multiplicity of ideals in the one parish, just as ong as they remain positive - unlike WAVs Holy Law under which he'd have us cowering. No zoos. No immigration. No other music than E. Trads sung without accompaniment. An English concertina in every home on pain of death. Nothing that wasn't English. No other religion than Christianity. No other food but chips, stotty cake, rancid pottage and Kellog's Fruit & Fibre. No swearing. No Gay parenting. No fun.

Under such conditions you would find me living in the re-Imagined Council Estate celebrating a multiplicity of cultural & human realities that is our common cause; or else in the re-Imagined Small Seaside Town, such as the one in which I now reside, contentedly cosmopolitan in at least half of a utopian street-plan that suggests we focus on what matters most in life which, in the end, comes down to the basic necessities which are our right and entitlement anyway.

Now for breakfast.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 05:19 AM

No, Kellogs are American.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 05:28 AM

Boiled oats and, yes, American-like jam and peanut-butter on toast for me - plus coffee with soya juice/"milk".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 05:44 AM

An English concertina in every home on pain of death.

Not all bad, then.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:30 AM

Not all bad, then.

I've always been an Anglo man myself; not that I've ever played one, but Peter Bellamy did, drones and all.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 06:33 AM

Two more No-WAVs: Cheese and Women's Tennis.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 01:09 PM

Ah, yes, S., village sports and recreation: including a couple of lawn tennis courts for the gents, and a table tennis hall for the ladies, plus...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 04:19 PM

a couple of lawn tennis courts for the gents, and a table tennis hall for the ladies

No, no, no, no, no, no, no!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 04:30 PM

Somehow or other I've managed to go through nigh on 48 years of life on planet earth without tasting a vol-au-vent - until tonight. Hitherto they were middle-class party food on TV sit-coms; a cultural fantasy which was forbidden to an ill-educated working class Geordie oik like myself. Now they are a refrigerated reality and a measure of what must be considered as a serious breach of the class-divide by way of unwitting embourgeoisment - I didn't even know what it was until it was scoffed. Being in polite company, fingers-down-the-throat was not an option; also, I didn't wish to regurgitate the pie, chips, peas, gravy, bread (followed by treacle pudding & custard) I enjoyed with Spleen earlier.

So here I am - violated by a vol-au-vent and feeling decidedly wierd...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 03:42 AM

"So here I am - violated by a vol-au-vent and feeling decidedly wierd..."

Absolutely ANY 'party food' from Iceland will make you ill (if they told you they were from M&S they were lying) - just watching the adverts makes me vomity. All vol-au-vonts live in freezing conditions in Iceland. In the old days Victorian collectors went to Iceland and harvested them as a rare delicacy for the elite, but since cultivation and mass production has ensured the egalitarian re-distribution of such aspirational foods, common people are also condemned to endure them. New Labour made it law. They won't make you posh of course, but they will make you look like a decidedly sad 'wannabe'. May I suggest you now ditch those tatty old volumes currently littering your shelves like some nit infested Oxfam shop, the purchase of a MASSIVE flat screen telly, and a discreet collection of never to be read/ever to be dusted leather bound 'classics' from some pricey bookclub on the back pages of RT.

I hereby request that 'drinks and nibbles' 'coctail parties' 'wine bars' and 'tennis clubs' are all TOTALLY BANNED in the re-Imagined village. And anyone caught indulging in such aspirational behaviours promptly has their head sliced off. I'll be there with my knitting..

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Darowyn
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 04:25 AM

Don't worry Suibhne, as a somewhat irritating friend of mine once said "If you can't change the situation, change your mind".
You did not eat a Vol-au-vent, or even a Fly in the Wind, you ate a very small pie full of salad cream, and some other stuff, possibly a small shrimp.
Its provider may have had more middle class intentions, but it was just a tiny, open pie.
You have not been embourgeoised, if adopted French words are acceptable un the context, or if they are not, you can eat scraps from the squires table and still be a peasant.
Cheers,
Peasant and proud of it,
Dave

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 04:57 AM

Go knit us a tennis jumper with a nice large red V will you, CS - ready for my hit at our PUBLIC lawn tennis courts (the ladies table tennis hall also being public, of course). And, for any newbies here, the reason for this division-of-recreation is the amount of strain lawn tennis puts on one's racket arm - Sue Barker, e.g., played with pain killers injected into her wrist.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:08 AM

the purchase of a MASSIVE flat screen telly,

Our telly is quite big, but not flat-screen - a contingency plan is in place in the event of its demise; it's a Goodmans, bought in 2001, so it's only a matter of time really. It's size and prominence in our front room is a reflection of its importance in our lives, and though it never goes on before 7.00pm, we do have one of these hard-disk recording things in the freeview box that means we can catch those stay day-time classics as when they appear. This coming Friday, for example, it's A Gift for Heidi (1958) which gets two stars in the Radio Times who describe it rather sniffily (Never has Johanna Spyri's little Alpine orphan found herself so immersed in sticky sweetness as in this glutinous fable...) but I recall been utterly enchanted by it as a kid, thus do I record it for a rainy day. Other films recently recorded (and not yet watched) include the classic Hell Drivers (1957) and Cottage to Let (1941).

I hereby request that 'drinks and nibbles' 'coctail parties' 'wine bars' and 'tennis clubs' are all TOTALLY BANNED in the re-Imagined village. And anyone caught indulging in such aspirational behaviours promptly has their head sliced off.

I agree. I also suggest their heads go as display on spikes outside the Post Office, there to be mocked by village gossips as an example to other would-be transgressors. ("Eh, there's that Mrs Prosser - doesn't look so glamorous now does she? See? I told you it was filler and foundation...")

including a couple of lawn tennis courts for the gents, and a table tennis hall for the ladies

In my experience women make the best tennis players (my old pal Mandy has trophies to prove it) whilst men are the best at table-tennis (I believe the Tyler Bros are famed in this respect).

and on the eighth day, God created Evolution too that is...

The very essence of Evolution is random selection which leads with no sort of inevitability whatsoever to Human Kind. Now, if God created evolution, and Mankind is the crowning glory of His Creation deserving of Dominion etc., does this mean that there is, in fact, no such randomness and that God has been controlling the entire thing from the off? If not, how come God comes to favour humanity over, say, penguins? Or do they have their own Messiah too?

I was once invited to tell a wee story as part of a church service some years ago during which the vicar invited his confrontation to pray not just to the God of Mankind, but also the God of the Spiders, the God of the Stones and the God of the Trees. I got a bit freaked out about this, asking him afterwards if such wilful pantheistic animism was entirely compatible with his Christian faith...

No doubt WAV might enlighten us in this respect.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:19 AM

invited his confrontation

Maybe that should have been congregation..

*

WAV your lurid sexism grows ever more irritating and has no place in the village. It is highly recommended therefore that you get yourself what is termed in these parts as a life which you most certainly won't get by promoting such ill-conceived drivel as your Life's Work. You have come to the village for an education - kindly be so good as to empty your cup of ignorance, arrogance, prejudice and misconception and receive one or else we will summon the God of Spiders to devour you whole.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:29 AM

Don't worry Suibhne, as a somewhat irritating friend of mine once said "If you can't change the situation, change your mind".

Your kind words are appreciated, though last night I dreamt I dwelt in marble halls...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:39 AM

"Go knit us a tennis jumper with a nice large red V will you, CS"

Only if you're planning to blow up some big building a la V for Vendetta WAV. When I first saw this on our telly which is also dying, my jaw dropped at the pro anarcho-terrorist sentiments. Amazed the film makers got away with such barely veiled provocative commentary ("A building is a symbol, as is the act of destroying it. Symbols are given power by people. A symbol, in and of itself is powerless, but with enough people behind it, blowing up a building can change the world." etc.) after 9/11. Excellent wee film too IMO, but then I'm a right sucker for comic book stylee sci-fi dystopias. Sin City made in the same year, pips it though IMO.. Sin City

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:44 AM

Now as all "good old villages" had a squire who should we nominate? WAV?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:49 AM

I haven't seen those 2, CS, and my pentium 2 (even with the maximum 512 RAM) struggles with youtube clips but, either way, I only "fight" using words - regardless of what S. has to say on occasions.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:49 AM

Have we done pigs yet? I definitely feel the need for a pig, but it has to be a rare breed. I suppose it ought to be a Middle White as that's the traditional Yorkshire cottage pig, but I love Gloucester Old Spots. I used to have a Gloucester Old Spots as a pet. When little, she slept with the dog in its basket but as she got bigger she was housed in a very commodious sty. This had to be vacated to make way for my parents and the pig went to live in the field, which she loved to dig up. A GOS could eat up the windfalls in my orchard and we could have great conversations (pigs are very intelligent).

"Now as all "good old villages" had a squire who should we nominate?"

I'd like to nominate my pig. Damn sight more intelligent than most so-called squires I've ever come across.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM

We watched it when it was on the other night but I got distracted on the lap-top when I found out about the passing of Jimmy Forsyth. Rachel was well into it though & I got the gist... We're both big fans of righteous film violence.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:52 AM

"I'd like to nominate my pig."

Seconded!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 05:55 AM

I have on my work desk a small, circular red button. If I press this button, all the tennis clubs in the world will simultaneously combust in an explosion which will give the earth's axis a kick up the arse which it certainly needs.

Why don't I press the button? Well, it's not from compassion for humanity, or from any possible regret for the mass murder of little snots. It's just that membership of my local tennis club when I was 16 gave me access to the old upright piano in the club house. That was where, on rainy days, when the club house was empty and I was bunking off school or holiday work or whatever, I used to sit and work out my first boogie-woogie left hand. And where I used to snog Shirley Howarth on empty, rain-sodden afternoons.

So, every time I'm tempted to press the button and destroy every tennis club in creation, I pause and think that there might be some other young chap - eager for boogie and innocent snoggery - who wouldn't be the same without the opportunity. I didn't, and don't give a shit about the tennis, but I just can't bring myself to press the button.

I also have another button, by the way, which will destroy every caravan in the world but, for some reason, the f*ck*er's broken.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 06:20 AM

Re. our Village Squire: "I'd like to nominate my pig." (TL)...Seconded!" (CS)...and (could be the wrong word) tripled - sorry Sailor Ron, I'm humbly running for President of the Republic of England.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 06:22 AM

"A "green pagan realm" (SJ) would entail close ties with native flora and fauna, yes?"

Almost certainly, but the whole garden will be dedicated as an act of worship to the ancient, unknowable gods and goddesses of our ancient ancestors. These are the gods of the wildwood and hedgerow, moor and fell, clough and beck and they are, like all people of the world, of the land and part of the land. The deep verdant green divinity of the native genius loci will be invoked in my small patch of earth and it will belong to no nation and no state; it will transcend the amoebic, myopic, materialistic mindsets of the ruling classes (no offence to the mighty amoeba!) and their lackey's; the beer will be good!

I might raise a standing stone at one end of the garden; a gritstone monolith to link earth and sky, a conduit for the spirit of the land, a beacon of wisdom and knowing. It will be a place of music and laughter (if it ever stops raining) and as we clear up the dog shit as it's laid no-one will step in anything nasty.

Not for me the imported desert gods of a far-off people, although I would welcome their presence of course as all would be welcome - the only requirement would be to come in a spirit of peace and tolerance. Diversity would be celebrated!

Failing that, I would probably repair to the village pub for a pint and a read of A Wonderful Life by Stephen J Gould, or perhaps Cosmos by Carl Sagan.

Did we decide on a name for the pub, or who the landlord might be?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 06:49 AM

In which case Sugarfoot, I reckon we aught to set about err 'liberating' the local sacred grove/holy spring/well/devils stone and the poor old White Lady from both, impersonation by and servitude to, such imported desert Gods and their usurping pantheons of demi-gods. WaV can have the local tennis clubhouse with its upright piano for services and preachings of immigrant deities in exchange for an ideally peaceful relinquishment of the local Church grounds (WaV, unlike us rowdy heathen lot, is not going to put up much of a fight). So that they may be returned to such honourings of their local rightful owners as villagers deem fitting. So mainly piss ups, dancing like nutters, smashing up the ancestors bones and similar such semi-shamanicy stuff. Hurrah, what larks!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 06:56 AM

Well dressing would be a must. We could have near the spring next to the rag tree; all this within sight of the hill-figure of a dodman on the outskirts of the village (er, the surveryor rather than the snail. Mind you, on the other hand . . .).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 06:58 AM

Sorry WAV but you've as much chance of being elected President of England [you may have notriced there's no such job] as I have ofwinning the best folk singer of the year award.
Name of the pub, how about "The Shantyman" with a painted sign of Johnnie Collins.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 07:18 AM

"I might raise a standing stone at one end of the garden; a gritstone monolith to link earth and sky, a conduit for the spirit of the land, a beacon of wisdom and knowing."

Yes, definitely. I wrote a song called Stone about the tallest standing stone in England, which stands in the nearby village of Rudston on the Yorkshire Wolds. It's a place I visit regularly. The church has been built next to it and the graveyard surrounds it.

If we have a standing stone, we should have a cursus to walk around, as well, singing appropriate songs.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 07:33 AM

singing appropriate songs.

Last time we were passing Boroughbridge we stopped off to pay our respects at The Devil's Arrows (2nd tallest??) and I couldn't stop singing The Trashmen's Surfin' Bird, which felt oddly appropriate, in my mind anyway. I did play some Jew's Harp there by way of a Sundoggy Style Vagabondian Vibrational Thang but I've always been of the opinion that whatever it was that the megalith & henge builders were up to is a good deal more pragmatic than New Age sensibilities might allow for...

A mate of mine is involved with the nwly created Sentry Circle which seems an interesting project...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 07:47 AM

"I've always been of the opinion that whatever it was that the megalith & henge builders were up to is a good deal more pragmatic than New Age sensibilities might allow for... "

I reckon that's true. Just finished reading 'Inside the Neolithic Mind' by David Lewis-Williams and David Pearce, which I found extremely interesting - although I didn't entirely agree about some of their conclusions on the nature of consciousness.

I love the Jew's Harp - had a couple of lessons from Dave Goulder recently.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 09:11 AM

Just finished reading 'Inside the Neolithic Mind' by David Lewis-Williams and David Pearce

Never read it, but it sounds fascinating. I'm still a fan of Aubrey Burl in respect of such matters; he always manages to convey the essential humanity of the megaliths, not least in his rather luridly titled Rites of the Gods which maybe I ought to read again. It was reading Burl that got me out of Paganism actually, although his books still sit alongside less less considered volumes!

I like the notion of a culture creating monuments that were not only bigger than they were, but which formed order and pattern midst the malevolent chaos of the natural world. Another manifestation of Nature vs Nurture I suppose. I remember visiting Thornborough with an archaeologist friend and standing in the middle of the henge and having this impression of an artificial horizon, which in its day, of course, would have been completely level & regular. Awesome stuff. Nothing mystical either, just a fundamental human resonance.

I did a couple of films once by way of a backwards tribute to No-Budget / No-Age / New-Age Psychedelic megalithomania. Here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cym55hthWd4      

I love the Jew's Harp - had a couple of lessons from Dave Goulder recently.

More fundamental human resonance! What sort do you play? I've often thought of doing a Jew's Harp thread on Mudcat to discuss makers, types, and, of course the IoNAJHA!

In the re-Imagined Village (which, like Avebury, has been constructed within a massive henge and stone circle) every child would be schooled in Jew's Harp playing, and every adult too; we would have daily sessions in meditation, healing, counselling, marriage guidance, and general life-therapy all focussed on the cathartic qualities of the Jew's Harp, or Scacciapensieri as they call it in Italy - which literally translates as thought scatterer, or more properly care scatterer, for all cares are banished with a single twang!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 11:21 AM

I'm also a fan of Aubrey Burl - got a couple of his books whose titles for the moment escape me (Circles of Stone?) and I've been a Friend of Thornborough for some time. My interest isn't especially in the mystical stuff, more in why so much time and effort were expounded in their construction. More especially, for the last 30 years or so I've been fascinated by the power of human consciousness and it's origins and development.

Anyway, onto the Jew's Harp. I don't actually 'play' one - I just had a go on Dave's and haven't yet got around to buying one of my own, but thanks for reminding me. I like "thought scatterer" - bit like the reverse of a dream catcher!


Can't get on youtube to look at your films at work, but if you get the chance, go to Rudston - it's a wonderful place (but don't go past Willy Howe at midnight or the fairies might get you).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Aug 09 - 12:33 PM

Further to our local ancient sites thought I'd propose the village curious odd-bods indulge in some dreaming experiments. Anyone know the Dragon Project? I love home-spun para-normal investigations like that. Particularly as I must confess a somewhat willful disinterest in what meagre and supposedly objective historical facts about these places science can reveal, when compared to the abundance of creative possibilities provided by what can be dreamed and imagined through more subjective and personal engagement.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 03:37 AM

Yeah, CS, I'm all for that. I think I've got a couple of Paul Devereux's books somewhere (Places of Power?) and wasn't John Michell involved in the Dragon Project? (Don't you just love the wears he wears his scarf – cool!)

How about this for a project – we erect a "memory stone" where all the folk memories in the village are stored. People (probably under the influence of hallucinogenic substances) seek to imbue their memories into the stone purely through their mental (!!!!!) processes and others try to retrieve them. Sort of a cross between Reich's orgone accumulator and Sheldrake's morphic resonance. At the very least it would be a great opportunity for everyone to get stoned :0

We may even be able to get an Arts Council grant!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 05:16 AM

RIP John Michel : Guardian Obit, 6th May 2009.

The re-Imagined Village library anyone? I mentioned elsewhere (Here) the book Earth Rites (1982) by Janet and Colin Board, who gave us a whole host of classic volumes on the topic of Earth Mysteries & Alt-Folklore - Mysterious Britain being the most well known. Whatever I might think of their wayward speculations, they have pride of place on my bookshelves alongside equally wayward volumes accumulated over the years, many more being lost along the way...

So lets have a few more suggestions. And what would we do with the inevitable donation of WAVs Life's Work???

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 05:48 AM

I hadn't realised John Michell had died – what a sad loss of another wonderful eccentric (in the best possible sense of the word). He and Janet and Colin Bord were early influences on me.

Anyway, how about a resident village storyteller to keep us amused on long winter evenings with "tales that keep children from play and old men from the chimney corner"? I nominate Bob Pegg, ex of Mr Fox

bob pegg - storyteller

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 06:01 AM

As it happens, S., I'm actually in the process of making another batch of "Walkabouts: travels and conclusions in verse" (second edition - with simple letter-notation tunes included) paperbacks now. For what it's worth, the most difficult shoe-string task is trying to print my "shoe" onto 220/240 gram A4 card - for the cover. I shall then replace the one in my bag, the one in my lounge room (read annually), and, of course, donate one to the good RIV Library! (as I've done to about 50 other libraries). Otherwise, it's all free on the web as a kind of e-book and an e-scroll.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 06:43 AM

I nominate Bob Pegg, ex of Mr Fox

Can I - er - nominate myself in this respect? Hell, it's worth a try... If not then I'd employ our very own Sailor Ron as full time local historian, ballad monger and storyteller.

Of course we'd have Bob's books in the library - Rites and Riots especially.

and, of course, donate one to the good RIV Library!

In which case it will be severely edited for the sake of the common good. If you will persist in your wholly erroneous conclusions and promoting such species lies (England culture is taking a hammering etc.) then so be it, but it strikes me that your time would be better spent reading some real books than reading your own stuff, much less promoting it.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 06:57 AM

"Can I - er - nominate myself in this respect"

Yes, of course - didn't realise we already had a resident stroyteller.

"So lets have a few more suggestions"

OK. I reckon there should be a copy of 'The History of The Levellers' by H L Brailsford, the complete works of John Cowper Powys, John Clare's poems, and I'll donate my collection of early Rupert Bear annuals.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 07:03 AM

Oh, and for WAV's edification, I'll lend my precious first edition of A E Houseman's 1933 Cambridge lecture, 'The Name and Nature of Poetry'.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 07:12 AM

Or rather A E Housman.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 07:58 AM

The novels of Rex Warner (all of 'em, but especially The Aerodrome) and the early poetry of W.H. Auden (before he went to America and started writing stuff he already understood). At least one edition of Tom Phillips' A Humument, and plenty of Arthur Machen. E.P. Thompson, The making of the English working class (even WAV can't object to that title), plus Whigs and Hunters, the Heavy Dancers and especially Writing by candlelight. John Berger, from when he used to write about art. Patrick Wright is a must, especially this one. Robert Aickman and Joan Aiken. Roger Deakin, but probably not Roger Deacon.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 08:04 AM

I tend to linger on the threshold of Michell, but Eccentric Lives, Peculiar Notions is a fine book.

One erratum in the Graun obit: the magazine he founded in 1990 was the Cereologist. It changed its name to the Cerealogist some time later. It had a less high-flown rival, a mag called Cropwatcher; people said at the time that it ought to change its name in the same way.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 08:09 AM

Frankly, TL, overall, I spend a lot more time with TV documentaries than books, these days, but I think I'll borrow that one on the Levellers sometime.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 08:42 AM

I used to be a bit of a random dabbler with books, I liked to read 'findings' - oddments found at jumble sales or junk shops. In doing so I stumbled on all sorts of things I'd never have gone out of my way to read or indeed imagined enjoying. WaV would no doubt appreciate my donations of C.S. Lewis Christian but far more amusing than I would have guessed Screwtape Letters, and Churchills 6 volume WWII memoirs. Read so long ago I hardly recall reading now. These along with lots of other boxed up and now redundant stuff I fell into during my teens including Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky & Gorky - and various writings by Marx & Engels, Nieztsche, Hume & Descarte. Steiner, Swedenborg and Blavatsky, inter alia. All really tatty and dusty. Probably more suitable for the village jumble than the village library though..
So to the village jumble they go. We haven't mentioned the village jumble yet I think? At our annual jumble the Scouts put on homemade greasy burgers and tea. It's a proper day out!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 08:51 AM

early Rupert Bear annuals.

Alfred Bestall! One of the greats, though Mary Tourtell's earlier efforts are not without a certain charm. In this respect we must go back to Kate Greenaway, Randolph Caldecott (whose original books I collect avidly) and, of course, the great Arthur Rackham.

It occurs to me that our Hapless Rapatriate might not be familiar with any of these names; if not, WAV I urge you, seriously, take some time out and get yourself acquainted. To get you started, here's my re-uniting of Peter Bellamy's Fox Jumps Over the Parson's Gate (1970) with the Randolph Caldecott illustrations (1883) that inspired it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhQMsONIwng

Seeing theleveller's been so kind with his Rupert annuals, I'll donate my collection of Dudley D. Watkins - Oor Wullie, The Broons, Desperate Dan, Lord Snooty, random religious tracts et al! I will also donate my collection of books by Newcastle wood engraver & publisher Joseph Crawhall; a name but few seem to be aware of, though his work crops up in folkie contexts from time to time.

More names to look up, WAV! This is Life Education you're getting here; open your heart to it and you'll be as English as chips & curry sauce.

Frankly, TL, overall, I spend a lot more time with TV documentaries than books

For shame! Hardly the wonder you know so little of the country that gave you birth. See above! See above! Such wonders & enrichments await you - such as you would not believe...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 08:51 AM

On the subject of the jumble sale, we must have the obligatory tin of processed peas that finds its way into every jumble sale and onto every tombola stall and has, at one time or another, been through the hands of every person in the village. Woe betide anyone who dare open it.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:03 AM

"we must have the obligatory tin of processed peas that finds its way into every jumble sale and onto every tombola stall and has, at one time or another, been through the hands of every person in the village. Woe betide anyone who dare open it."

I reckon *that's* your village memory stone right there. Probably got the genetic fingerprints of every resident of the village going way back to err the dawn of villages. After the apocalyse, millenia will pass, then alien races far advanced of us lot (and via amazing future science methods) will find said can of peas and unlock the entire history of our wee village... They'll probably get it about as botched as WaV's own idea/ls. So when they clone us all and pop us in their re-imagined aliens cultures history zoo, it'll be just like it. Mead & chips and all.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:13 AM

Ha, ha. It'll be like the Smash aliens (remember them) when they pick up a potato and say "they must truly be a very primitive race".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:15 AM

BTW, although not a Batchelor, I am, until the next village fete, the Keeper of the Peas.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:15 AM

As for nominating roles in the re-I village, I rather like Reggie Perrins (another must see for re-patriots: The Fall and Rise

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:17 AM

Try again..
As for nominating roles in the re-I village, I rather like Reggie Perrins (another must see for re-patriots: The Fall and Rise

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 09:19 AM

Weird... I wonder if this'll work:

model of residents being employed in the *least* suitable role imaginable. For myself then, I should run the village Neighbourhood Watch, which I loathe with a passion. Though indisputably the creation of an EVIL intelligence, the leaflets are nevertheless often a good excuse for a laugh: "suspicious (read 'swarthy') looking man, seen by bushes."

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 10:32 AM

I'm waiting for someone to record Stottie and Mead and Chips and All...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 11:16 AM

Now you've call on me to sing I'll see what I can do,
First I'll chant you a Walkabout then an E. Trad I'll give to you
I'll sing them unaccompanied, and I'll hold you all in thrawl,
And when I'm done I'll stuff my face,
With Stottie and Mead and Chips and All -
Stottie and Mead and Chips and All.

When first I came to England, I'll tell you the reason why,
It was to repatriate myself and my Aussie heritage to deny;
But the England I left as a babe is not there any more!
So I'll go and console myself
With Stottie and Mead and Chips and All -
Stottie and Mead and Chips and All.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 11:24 AM

PS - Both those links work just fine, CS. We watched the shite remake & were much depressed. We live in an era of top comedy from both sides of the pond (Ideal, Mighty Boosh, The IT Crowd, Flight of the Concords, Curb Your Enthiasm etc etc) so why fly in face of so resplendent a classic with this degrading shite? What they should do is go back and re-do the sit-coms that weren't funny; imagine Johnny Vegas et al breathing new life into On the Buses.

Oh, and the best English sit-com ever? Nightingales. No contest.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 11:31 AM

Joseph Crawhall II (1821–1896) : Woodcuts.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 11:52 AM

Quentin Blake delightful illustrations are a must, as are Mervyn Peakes's intense, dark scrawlings. I would also suggest Kit Williams too, for beyond Masquerade are a wealth of his treasures to be discovered. Finally, don't forget Chris Foss, whose epic imaginings give a hint of the wonders the future could hold . . .

Ever seen Arrested Development SO'P? Finest US sitcom ever in my (admittedly worthless) opinion.

Forget mead, I'll have me cod roe and chips after night out on Luton's finest beer - the mighty Stella Artois.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 12:10 PM

"residents being employed in the *least* suitable role imaginable." (CS)...NOT the village you-know-what for me, thanks, S. - but, frankly, your ditty did raise a smile.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 02:35 PM

I didn't wish to regurgitate the pie, chips, peas, gravy, bread (followed by treacle pudding & custard) I enjoyed with Spleen earlier.

I take this opportunity that to inform you that Suibhne didn't have a side order of random offal with his pie, but my august company. Grand pie and a grand day out. Cheers!

What I learned in Fleetwood #1: The re-imagined village caff definitely needs to be run by an ex-member of a show band, with signed copies of their old albums framed on the walls...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Aug 09 - 03:57 PM

"I'll donate my collection of early Rupert Bear annuals."

I'll also add my Teddy Tail Annuals and my huge collection of Blackie novels, mostly bought for 1d each from a TocH bookstall back in the early 70s (where, incidentally, I also found a slightly tatty first edition of Sketches by Boz, Second Series, illustrated by George Cruikshank, and a first edition of Bram Stoker's Lair of the White Worm with fantastic illustrations by an unnamed artist, with titles such as "Lady Arabella was dancing in a fantastic sort of way").

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 03:48 AM

Ever seen Arrested Development SO'P? Finest US sitcom ever in my (admittedly worthless) opinion.

Never heard of it, though I was a fan of the band and their curiously bucolic brad of hip-hop. Will check it out.

with signed copies of their old albums framed on the walls...

Next time we'll go to Cafe Marina just round the corner from us where the walls are floor to ceiling with signed photos of celebrities both major and minor who, it would seem, do B&B with Mine Hosts at the Cafe Marina during their Blackpool Season...

"Lady Arabella was dancing in a fantastic sort of way"

A favourite of mine occurs in Puck of Pook's Hill, with one of H R Millar's iconic illustrations captioned 'I know what sort o' man you be,' old Hobden grunted, groping for the potatoes. I'm sure this sort of thing inspired Edward Gorey, who wasn't English, nor even visited England (the nearest he got was the Hebrides!) and yet his work is infused with an Englishness that becomes typical, however so surreal his narratives.

So - Edward Gorey. Another name to check out.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 04:51 AM

Framed prints of A. Beardsly's 'Lisistrata', and a full size copy of Holman Hunt's 'Light of the world' in the church, you couldn't get more differnt works of art, but both in their own way superb. Ron

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 05:08 AM

...some Constables and Leightons, please.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 05:24 AM

I love the work of Andrew Waddington - especially his woodcuts. I've a print of his Hare and Moon on my wall.

andrew waddington

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 05:38 AM

Rolf Harris please

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 05:51 AM

My three favourite artists: Paul Klee, Joan Miro and Marc Chagall. Wierdly, this has remained unchanged since I was thirteen. To this list I might add El Greco, Picasso, Waterhouse, Alfred Wallis, and a plethora of Renaissance painters (Titian is a dear delight) and anonymous medieval hands, such as the masters who produced The Luttrell and Macclesfield Psalters which remain joint #1 in my list of English painting. So full facsimiles in both the Church and Library I would imagine!

Loved the recent Holman Hunt exhibition in Manchester which fielded all three versions of Light of the World - my favourite being the one from the amazing brick-built chapel of Keble College in Oxford. Seen in situ the effect is quite unsettling. Nice to see Isabella and the Pot of Basil again; since moving from Tyneside (where she resides in the Laing Gallery in Newcastle) I've been missing her rather! You can almost smell the basil, much less the grisly contents of the pot...      

When it comes to contemporary English painting I regard the work of Vic Reeves as being somewhat quintessential. Better known for his TV comedy, Mr Reeves is a surrealist visionary in the great tradition. I think his Flight o' the Retard should be hanging on the chimney breast of the village pub, along with a complete set of his waterfowl, such as The Curlew.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 05:55 AM

"You know what it is yet?!"...no, TL - I couldn't find the "Hare and Moon," but enjoyed the others, thanks.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 06:03 AM

Rolf Harris please

Respect!

We went to an exhibition of Rolf's work (also in Manchester) and were most impressed. I've still got the catalogues lying around here someplace - must dig them out. Of course we love his music too - Rachel & I are currently working up a version of Sun Arise for possible inclusion in the Big Sing at Fylde. Interesting that in Aboriginal mythology the sun is a female deity, hence fluttering her skirts. A lovely song with very deep traditional & spiritual roots...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PylJkN9FEoU

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 06:05 AM

I couldn't find the "Hare and Moon,"

HERE

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 06:08 AM

On the hill overlooking the RIV, we should cut out a white horse, like the one at Kilburn.

Maybe we can get an Arts Council grant for THAT.

kilburn white horse

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 06:18 AM

Like both those, thanks; and, yes then, the RIV is on chalk land.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 06:27 AM

If not a horse then maybe one of These?? Either one will do; in terms of Cultural Icons they both have a place in my heart!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 06:32 AM

Chagall is one of my favourite artists too. Never took to Picasso myself for some reason. Ernst & De Chirico I like. Especially De Chirico. Hieronymus Bosch is fabulous.

But my favourite artist by a long straw, is Louise Bourgeois. Managed to miss the Spider at Tate Modern, but her cages and organic psycho-sexual sculptures are quite utterly compelling.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 06:49 AM

Never took to Picasso myself for some reason.

What got me into Picasso was an old film of him painting on glass; not sure if this the same one (I was only ten or so when I saw it) but it's still pretty neat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkRS3wDg1xU

Dig the organ music!

Otherwise, I'll see your Bosch and raise you a Brueghel, though that brings me back to Très Riches Heures du Duc de Berry by the Brothers Limbourg (1385 – 1416) which knocks the spots off them both. Try this:

August

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 07:12 AM

"Hieronymus Bosch is fabulous."

Funnily enough, I was playing Pearls Before Swine's 'Balaklava' earlier, which has The Triumph of Death as its cover illustration.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 07:42 AM

Pearls Before Swine's 'Balaklava' is definitely one for the village record library. Filed next to Forest's self titled debut and the follow up, "Full Circle" and Dr Strangely Strange's "Kip of the Serenes"... and the complete works of Mr Fox and Bob Pegg, of course!

Can we commission and exhibition by Lily Greenwood, too?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 07:44 AM

Oh, and 500! (yah boo sucks, LF!)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 07:52 AM

"and the complete works of Mr Fox and Bob Pegg, of course!"

Of course!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 07:57 AM

the village record library.

A while back I listen my top ten folk albums Here which got me in a spot of bother over Just Another Diamond Day, which was entirely ruined by the mobile phone commercial. Things like that truly belong in the shadows!

I would say this has to be vinyl only, in which case I donate my copy of I Wish There Was No Prisons by Jim Eldon, which didn't make my earlier Top Ten because I regard it more as an ethnomusicological document of a fine Traditional Singer than I do mere Revival Folk Product...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:26 AM

the complete works of Mr Fox and Bob Pegg

Does that include Ancient Maps? A singular piece of work and no mistake; The Ship Builder likewise. Bones is something of a classic, of course - worth the price of the Keeper of the Fire anthology alone! Still, a fiver for two disks stuffed the gunwhales with complete classic Pegg albums (Bob Pegg & Nick Strutt / The Ship Builder / Ancient Maps) plus assorted rarities, Bones, demos, session, and a worthy booklet of notes and images...

Only in it for the money? Hell, aren't we all!

Here's a clip from Bones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWOnJCxHnEA

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 08:35 AM

Well, if it's vinyl, I'll donate Pearls Before Swine's Balaklava, The Use of Ashes, and These Things Too; Bob and Carole Pegg's He Came From the Mountains; and the Topic sample, New Voices with the Waterson's first recordings.

Oh, and an Alex Campbell LP I bought for five bob on York station called, I think, Folk Session.

More albums may be forthcoming when I get a chance to look through them (early Johnny Winter, anyone?)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 10:04 AM

Bob and Carole Pegg's He Came From the Mountains

Never heard that one. Any enlightenment in this respect would be most appreciated!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 11:08 AM

"After Mr Fox broke up, and Pegg had recorded a rather forgettable
album with just Bob and Carole called He Came from the Mountains
(1971), the really good stuff started to appear."

Actually, although it's some time since I played it, I think it's rather good. It has never been released on CD.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 12:25 PM

What a snuggery this wee thread has become! No idea why Joe's tolerated the non-musical content, but I'm not complaining! I reckon mods aughta link it with Will's Old Gits Corner.

SO'P yeah, I saw that Picasso glass painting film many Moons ago, when on Beeb 2 (prolly as part of some early morning improving and charmingly wooden late Seventies/early Eighties O.U. scheduling).

So, old O.U. progs. I mean the ones everyone used to laugh at with beardy men and Beckett-like stark white sets O.U. Prog. (before the Beeb decided to really 'enlighten' us poor dumb proles with uber exciting CGI, and bland but earnest totty in sexy secretary suits.) Eh, WaV, you need to research those.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 12:42 PM

No thanks, CS - I've neither car nor piston to repair!..what I do have for the RIV collection, though, is a fine Fellside tape called Voices: English traditional Songs, wherein many of the well-known 80s folkies each chose one E. trad., and sung it unaccompanied.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 06 Aug 09 - 09:52 PM

"He came from the mountain, and no-one saw him coming;
And some say he was walking, and some say he was running;
But I do believe (and I'm not known for lying)
That the only way that he could come was floating and flying."

Can't find the lyrics for this on the net. The album "He Came From the Mountain" isn't even mentioned on Bob Pegg's MySpace page .

For some reason (or none) this was going through my head a couple of weeks ago. The rest is in the record stacks somewhere.

You would also require Bob Pegg's calling-on song for the RIV Mummers' side:-

"Rise up, Jock and sing your song;
For the summer is short and the winter's long.
Then all join hands and form a chain
Till the leaves of springtime blooom again."

Original lyrics compared with DT version (Malcolm Douglas)

Ross

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:29 AM

Thanks, Ross, for putting me onto those lyrics, and the precise work of Malcolm Douglas.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 04:56 AM

Burning my copy off as I write; I will listen to it over a late breakfast & subsequent domestic chores throughout the day. Thanks to my benefactor for the enlightenment.

An old mate once reported seeing Mr Fox when they were down to the duo of Mr & Mrs Pegg in the final throes of marital strife barely able to keep from tearing each other apart on stage. He said it was one of the finest gigs he'd ever seen...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 06:52 AM

Yo, WAV - way to spam Bob Pegg's myspace page! Actually, most myspace comments these days tend to be spam so you're well in there, Bonny Lad! I still try and find something to say about the actual page I'm visiting rather than myself... You know - the personal touch rather than relentless spamming and self-promotion...

One day I went to the re-Imagined Village pub, a clog-dancer for to score;
I was gazing mellow at the willow-licked stream - when that lass she hit the floor!
My heart it lifted heavenward, her nimble clog-work for to see -
But more heavenly yet was the bounce of her chest,
So I reached for me Stottie and Mead and Chips and All,
Stottie and Mead and Chips and All!

Er - you want spam with that, WAV?

Meanwhile - off to Tyneside tomorrow for a family jaunt; hopefully we'll make it to the re-Imagined Village Flee Market held on the platforms Tynemouth Metro Station where I'll be wearing my stylised Triple Hare pendant as a talisman to aid me in the search for choice gew-gaws of folkloric significance...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 12:04 PM

"Spam" (S)?...Yes, I still post an e.g. of my WalkaboutsVerse to myspace profiles (without any html), and allow others to do the same on my profile. Most are probably indifferent; occasionally, if you check my comments, I get thanks/requests for more; and, even more occasionally, someone, like you, lets me know they don't like it. And, as you must also know, many other comments on myspace are nothing more than "Thanks for the add" and suchlike; furthermore, it's quick and easy to delete any comments you don't want, anyway - so why the fuss, S?

Enjoy the Flee Market - next weekend is the Durham Gathering/Picnic by the way.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 12:12 PM

An old mate once reported seeing Mr Fox when they were down to the duo of Mr & Mrs Pegg in the final throes of marital strife barely able to keep from tearing each other apart on stage. He said it was one of the finest gigs he'd ever seen...

Shades of Richard and Linda Thompson on tour in the USA - their duetting on "The Dimming Of The Day" still gets me tingling every time I hear it.

A "Flee Market" sounds something that buggered-up stockbrokers should do. :-)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 12:24 PM

so why the fuss, S?

No fuss, WAV just admiring the nerve really.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 12:33 PM

Lookat MyFace is a bluddy yawnish bore.

All: "LOOK AT MEEEEE!!!",
or: "OH WE LURVE YOU...NOW LOOK AT MEEEEEEE!!!"

One of the main reasons I never bothered recreating an account myself.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 12:55 PM

...high-speed fibre-optic broad-band for the RIV?...the pub by the village green serves Sunday roast?...the village green itself serves the local frogs, toads and newts with a nice lilly pond?...and, of a Saturday, S. and the like, with a Flee/"gew-gaws" market..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 01:07 PM

"lily pond", I think [pedant that I am]. Don't forget the Old Gits in their corner, by the way - all pedantic to a fault.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 07 Aug 09 - 03:14 PM

Lookat MyFace is a bluddy yawnish bore.

Maybe so, but no more than what goes on at your local Folk Club / Singaround - plus there is a level of real, meaningful & productive networking in there. I've got a lot of very positive stuff out of it myself. And where in the world could you go to hear the amazing sounds of D B Lolaq?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 04:32 PM

..but is the spelling of "lily" silly, Will?!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 Aug 09 - 05:43 PM

..but is the spelling of "lily" silly, Will?!

Well... I coughed and, being very thorough, startled a chough flying to perch on a bough by the side of a lough near the borough of Houghton...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Aug 09 - 04:43 AM

Flee Market held on the platforms Tynemouth Metro Station where I'll be wearing my stylised Triple Hare pendant as a talisman to aid me in the search for choice gew-gaws of folkloric significance...

And very nice it was too, blazing sunshine under the Victorian awnings and any amount of aforementioned gew-gaws of folkloric interest, including:

Brass Durham Cathedral Sanctuary Knocker Ashtray. Asking price (AP): £2.00 / Haggled down to (HDT) : £1.50 / Folkloric Significance (FS) : The Medieval Sanctuary Knocker of Durham Cathedral has long been the Face of Durham, one of the iconic constants and symbolic of the sanctuary once offered by the church to various wrongdoers. It is also a fine piece of Romanesque metal work which in my young day was the real thing, it situ, though its place has been taken by a faultless facsimile, the original now residing in the Cathedral museum, or treasury. Consequently the Durham Door Knocker has enjoyed a place in the region's folklore for several centuries (see my opening blurb Here for a personal reminiscence) and has inspired any amount of brass souvenirs most of them, unsurprisingly, in the form of door-knockers. I've seen Sanctuary Knocker horse brasses and toasting forks, but until yesterday I'd never seen an ashtray before, though it amuses me to think of it being bought in Durham Cathedral, circa 1930, when smoking was, I believe, compulsory for everyone over the age of eleven.

Dolmetsh Dolomite Descant Recorder. AP: £3.50 / HDT : £1.00 (on account of slightly chipped mouthpiece) / FS: Where does one begin? Within WAV-lore alone the Recorder enjoys near-iconic status as The English Flute, revived as a Folk Instrument mass produced in Japan in fetching black & white shiny plastic. Long before that however, Arnold Dolmetsch was seduced into mass-producing affordable descants for purposes of education which became the bane of any child suffering an English Education between 1950 and 1980 making sure that recorders would be despised in perpetuity and forever associated with the reeking corridors of crumbling Victorian secondary modern schools haunted by sadistic pedagogues whose joy it was to inflict such culture upon them. I'm speaking of working class kids here, many of whom would ceremonially smash their Dolmetsch Descants upon leaving school - I have seen this done. The early ones were made from Dolomite, a patented shit-brown bakelite which goes soft if left in the sun, but they have a fine tone and a lower register chiff to die for. I'm sure it was that legendary Dolmetsch Dolomite Descant chiff that inspired the distinctive playing of Terry Wincott of The Amazing Blondel - one of the few recorded players, IMHO, to provide us with a taste of how the recorder might have sounded as a folk instrument in Ye Days of Yore. Needless to say I was wandering around Tynemouth yesterday playing the opening riff from Saxon Lady until Rapunzel threatened me with divorce.

Green Man Garden Ornament. AP: £2.50 / HDT : - / FS : Where does one start? Since the craze for all things green, The Post-Modern Green Man has become iconic of a non-folkloric figure which is an entirely modern invention. I see this as part of an Inner Yearning of a Humanity Dispossessed of the Soil and the Seasons; a yearning for Nature, for the Source, despite the fact that the Green Man image we're familiar with today was developed within pre-Reformation Roman Catholicism as a warning very much against nature. Ironic, huh?? Anyway, this has propagated any amount of entirely bogus Green Man gew-gaws, oracle cards, t-shirts, jewellery etc. etc. which I do collect - but only if the price is right, and the workmanship acceptable. Most Neo-Green Man are works of fantasy, modern interpretations rather than facsimiles of original carvings - and whilst I obviously prefer the latter, I do have a few modern GM, and now this one, which is one of the finest I've ever seen at a price that I did not question.

In the Wake of the Plaque : The Black Death and the World it Made - Norman F. Cantor (2001) AP: 50p / HDT: - / FS : I bought this book if only for the fine reproduction of the Dance of Death woodcut that I used to illustrate my TOTENTANZ page some years ago, which is worth 50p of anyone's money. However upon perusing its pages in the local Subway I see Chapter One is called All Fall Down and would have us believe that the children of 1500 were singing Ring Around the Rosies, the origin of which, is, of course, the symptoms of the bubonic plaque. Strange to find this classic piece of fakelore perpetuated in an otherwise scholastic context. I will explore further as time allows.

Polynesian Totem Pole. AP - 25p / HDT: - / FS : A six-inch resin cast gew-gaw of the sort of thing that'll be familiar to any visitor of the Royal Museum in Edinburgh, The World Museum in Liverpool, and The Pitt Rivers Museum in Oxford. Not sure if its based on any actual prototype though, but it's a fetching piece that presently stands on my CD shelves alongside the various volumes of the VOTP CDs I've picked up in sales here and there over the years as I wouldn't pay full price for such things. One volume I even picked up at Tynemouth Flee Market! No such luck yesterday of course, but a happy day none the less.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:32 AM

And another thing...

Finally got round to listening to He Came from the Mountains and broke out in a cold sweat when track three came on. Not only Lord of the Dance, but the very same version of Lord of the Dance as played by one of our more folksy inclined teachers at school in 1972 when I was 10 or 11. Bloody hell! So I first heard Bob Pegg at school and hadn't even realised.

Anyone got musician details for the album? I suspect that's Claire Deniz on cello, as she also features on Bright Phoebus, though she's at her most glowing on the Strawbs' Dragonfly which has lately seen its first official appearance on CD...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:19 AM

OK, SOP, I have delved around in places thatcontain things that haven't seen the light of day for centuries and, like Beowulf, braved the dragon in my quest. The result? I've found my copy of He Came From the Mountains and here is the information you seek:

Bob Pegg - vocals, melodeon, whistle, guitar
Carole Pegg - vocalist, fiddle
Mike Lavelle - cello, flute
Nick Strutt - guitar, mandoline (sic)
Barry Lyons - bass guitar
Pete Wagstaff - drums
John Wyatt - flute (Rise Up Jock)
Andrew Massey - cello (Rise Up Jock)
Alan Eden - drums (Rise Up Jock)
Roger Knowles - guitar (Angeline)


Produced by Bill Leader
Recorded by Nic Kinsey at Livingston Studios

Recorded by Bob and Carole Pegg BEFORE they became Mr Fox (1971)

Right, going to have to venture back in there now to put it back before the dragon wakes and realises it's been taken.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 01:01 PM

Before you do, The (Venerable) Leveller - in the Lord's Prayer, shouldn't it be "Thine (rather than "Thy") will be done"..?..(I hope to record it chanted, soon.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 01:29 PM

in the Lord's Prayer, shouldn't it be "Thine (rather than "Thy") will be done"..?..

Absolutely not!

(I hope to record it chanted, soon.)

Where Cliff failed, WAV will succeed...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 02:18 PM

Oh - thanks for that info TL; much appreciated, though obviously I gonked over Deniz - certainly sounds like her! Still can't be many cellos in folk music can there? My favourite was / is Ursula Smith who did some sublime things in the Third Ear Band (and played some demonic fiddle with them in a later incarnation) as well as COB. We once saw a girl from the Newcastle Folk Degree course doing a set as part of the Rising Stars / Kids from Fame nights at The Bridge maybe three or four years ago now who did some top stuff on cello too. I hope her star is still rising!

Back to matters Foxy - the first Mr Fox album was 1970. Just a thought as to the chronology, or rather the intent of He Came from the Mountains - or even And Now it is So Early...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 02:34 PM

"the first Mr Fox album was 1970."

Yeah, I was surprised when I read it - I assume that they recorded it before and only released it later.

As for cello players - there seems to be more about in folk these days, like Rachel McShane - and my 9-year old daughter.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 03:19 PM

Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come; thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses -
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

You know, you could sing that to the tune of Butter and Cheese and All. You'd lose the repeat on the last line, but you could make up by repeating the last two lines.

Now, here's The re-Imagined Village Pater Noster Challenge - what other traditional folk melodies can you sing The Lord's Prayer to?

*

Billy Harrison was a great old cello player in the Yorkshire tradition; it's his tune (collected by Jim Eldon) that The Watersons sing While Shepherds Watched to.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 04:55 PM

S O'P - your "Polynesian" totem is actually from Canada (British Columbia). You might find the letters "BOMA CANADA" on the plinth. Here's one on eBay These coal-like carvings are resin copies of (usually) very detailed originals. Copies of soapstone originals of Inuit sculpture are also quite commonly found in flea-markets/car-boot sales. Though sold as tourist-trap souvenirs, some of them are quite beautiful.

For the village library (or the visiting library-van) I would suggest the following should be on the shelves -

The English Difference, Paul Jennings & John Gorham, Aurelia, 1974

"Anthology of articles and illustrations, affectionately chronicling the English character and way of life, edited by Jennings and Gorham. Other contributors include Michael Foreman and David Gentleman. Topics covered include travelling fairs, transport cafes, pantomime, brass bands, children's games, seaside towns, working men's clubs, the WI, allotments, pubs, heraldry, village fetes etc. Glossy colour illustrated boards." (Ripping Yarns review)

19 available at Abebooks (the above link takes you there) from £4 plus p&p - don't all rush at once!

Ross

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM

Thanks S. - but if it's thy/your kingdom, then it's thine/yours will be done, yes?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 05:22 PM

WAV - in that phrase 'will' is a noun, not a verb.

Thy: possessive pronoun, "belonging to you singular"
Will: noun, "what someone wants or wishes to happen"
Be: third person singular of the subjunctive mood of 'to be'
Done: past participle of 'to do'

"May what you want to happen be brought about".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 07:29 PM

WAV - I've done mine and everybody else's already; thine will be done when I get around to it - but don't hold your breath.

Ross

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:01 AM

your "Polynesian" totem is actually from Canada (British Columbia). You might find the letters "BOMA CANADA" on the plinth

Absolutely right - and I bet if we go to the museums I mentioned we might find their totem poles aren't Polynesian either. My confusion arises from one of the models of Jew's Harp made by master Hungarian trump-smith Zoltan Szilagyi which he calls a Polynesian Totem. I see the word totem and I immediately add the Polynesian prefix!

Thanks S. - but if it's thy/your kingdom, then it's thine/yours will be done, yes?

Looks like you've made the same mistake with the Lord's Prayer as I used to make when I was eight. Look at Pip's last post and all should become clear. The trick is, if it looks wrong to you then the fault is more likely to be thine rather than the texts.

So it's Thy will - i.e. The Will of God - be done. Not Thy - i.e. God's Holy Purpose - will be done. If in doubt, a more modern translation might make things a little clearer (this one from The English Language Liturgical Consultation):

    Our Father in heaven,
       hallowed be your name,
       your kingdom come,
       your will be done,
            on earth as in heaven.

    Give us today our daily bread.
    Forgive us our sins
       as we forgive those who sin against us.
    Save us from the time of trial
       and deliver us from evil.

    For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours
       now and for ever. Amen.

The Doxology notwithstanding, this could also be sung to Butter and Cheese and All. Actually the Doxology could be sung to the the A phrase, which would make more sense in the the Roman Catholic Liturgy which treats the Doxology as separate from the rest of the Pater Noster thus:

All: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Priest: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy keep us free from sin and protect us from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ.

All: For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.

I think that would work a treat actually. I will begin work on my Butter and Cheese Folk Mass right away! So see you all at the re-imagined Village RC Church for Vigil Mass on Saturday evening.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 03:54 AM

SOP, let us have a Latin Mass as well.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:13 AM

Greek might be better Ron: WAV's misunderstanding of the English verb form used in the first section of the Lord's Prayer is not uncommon, and stems from unfamiliarity with the Greek 3rd person imperative (as used in 'Thy will be done')

It is often misunderstood; however there is a beautifully detailed explanation of it
here

It's a good justification of Greek and Latin studies in schools I think.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:44 AM

SOP, let us have a Latin Mass as well.

I'll give it a try, Ron - but it's a bugger to get the Latin Pater Noster to fit Butter and Cheese and All. Of course it can be done if you stress it in Plain Chant strophes thus:

Pater Noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum.
Adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua,
sicut in caelo et in terra.
Panem nostrum quotidianum
da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis
debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus
debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem,
sed libera nos a malo. Amen.

Like it! All I need now is to find some monks...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:17 AM

"WAV - in that phrase 'will' is a noun, not a verb."...thanks Pip, et al!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:24 AM

It sort of works to 'Dashing Away with the Smoothing Iron'. Makes it all quite jolly in fact.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:41 AM

Scenes from A Re-Imagined Village...

Mrs Dorchester tidies up the flowers on her husband's grave.

Mrs Dorchester's son Nigel downloads Abby Winters' masturbation videos to watch with his bi-sexual wife Fiona when she gets in from work.

Mrs Dorchester's grandson Neil relieves boredom of school holidays by shooting rabbits with his air rifle.

Mrs Dorchester's lover Harry is playing darts in the pub with his mate Billy, with whom Mrs Dorchester is also involved.

Billy's wife Mary lights a fag in back of the village shop and can't help but admire the elaborately obscene graffiti tag which wasn't there yesterday.

Mary's sister Janice is coming to the end of her daily two-hour housework routine.

Janice's husband Tom is out on his rounds, chuckling as he watches Mrs Dorchester's grandson through his binoculars.

Tom's mother Betty is wailing for a nurse.

Harry's wife Annie smiles pitifully at Mrs Dorchester as she passes her by in the cemetery.

Later, Annie places a single red rose on Mr Dorchester's grave.

Later still, Nigel receives a phone-call from Fiona and goes down the pub where he buys himself a pint and sits out by the canal watching as swans swim midst the weeping willows.

Later still, Neil goes down to the pub with a bag of rabbits for Billy and Mary. Billy slips him a fiver. Neil slinks off to watch Tom's daughter Kylie practising Fluffy Morris in the village hall.

Later still, Neil and Kylie cover the back wall of the village hall in the obscene graffiti images that cause a bit of a stir the following morning.

8.00am - Mrs Dorchester wonders who keeps leaving the single red rose on her husband's grave.

8.30am - Fiona tends to the needs of Tom's mother Betty in the nursing home, smiling to think of the fun she had last night whilst looking forward to watching the Abby Winters' masturbation videos after her shift.

9.00am - Nigel descends in stair-lift, and pushes himself into the kitchen where he listens to a Bob and Carole Pegg CD whilst making breakfast.

9.10am - He is joined by Neil and Kylie who, although a Fluffy Morris Dancer since the age of four, has never heard folk music before.

9.15am - Mary prepares the pastry whilst Billy skins and butchers the rabbits.

9.25am - Noel uploads mp3s of the Bob and Carole Pegg album onto Kylie's iPod.

11.43am - Harry pays a call on Mrs Dorchester.

12.10pm - Billy takes a rabbit pie round to Noel who is particular impressed by the decoration on the crust.

3.00pm - Kylie practices her dance moves whilst listening to Bob and Carole Pegg on her iPod.

3.02pm - Annie notices that the clock in the hall is five minutes fast.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 08:33 AM

Who is Abby Winters?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 08:45 AM

She's an Australian pornographer who facilitates a website in which ordinary young women (as oppose to porn models) freely, openly and shamelessly celebrate their sexuality in a variety of ways either solo, or in duos and groups. In the masturbation videos a girl is alone with the video camera. In the annals of internet porn I believe her approach is quite unique - refreshing certainly, age & BMI restrictions notwithstanding...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:10 AM

Cue The Maid of Australia - my preferred version would be Bellamy & Swarb, which would make a fine theme song for Abby Winters!

One day as I walked by them Oxborough Banks
Where the maids of Australia they play their wild pranks,
Down by a green bush I sat down to read
While the birds they sang sweetly in the bushes and trees
In the forests of happy Australia,
In the forests of happy Australia,
Where the maidens are handsome and gay.

And as I sat viewing this beautiful scene
All the birds they sang sweetly and the trees they were green,
A pretty fair damsel before me appeared
To the banks of the river she swiftly drew near
This daughter of happy Australia,
This daughter of happy Australia,
Where the maidens are handsome and gay.

Well she stripped stark naked, before me she stood
Just as naked as Venus that rose from the flood,
She blushed with confusion and smiling said she,
"These are the clothing that nature gave me
On the day I was born in Australia."
On the day I was born in Australia,
Where the maidens are handsome and gay

Well she plunged in the stream without fear or dread,
Her delicate limbs she extended and spread,
Her hair hung in ringlets her colour was black,
"Sir, you shall see how I float on me back
In the streams of me native Australia."
In the streams of me happy Australia,
Where the maidens are handsome and gay.

But growing tired of swimming she drew to the brink,
"Oh assistance kind sir, I'm afraid I shall sink."
I flew to her aid and took hold of her hand,
Her feet they did slip she fell back on the sand,
And I entered the bush of Australia,
And I entered the bush of Australia,
Where the maidens are handsome and gay.

We kissed and we cuddled in the highest of glee,
The fairest Australia me eyes they did see,
Long time on her bosom me head I did hide,
'Til the sun in the West it began to decline,
Then I left this fair maid of Australia,
Then I left this fair maid of Australia,
Just as the sun went down.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 09:44 AM

That brings to mind the Jenny Agutter swimming sequence in Nic Roeg's 'Walkabout'.

Nic directed some TV commercials that I wrote in the early 1980s but, unfortunately, Jenny Agutter did not feature in them.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 10:29 AM

Nic directed some TV commercials that I wrote in the early 1980s

Respect! Any on-line examples? There's a few classics on YouTube... One often hears of ex-prog musicianers doing music for adverts, with various former Soft Machine, Gentle Giant and (Lord Save Us!) Hatfield and the North members turning their talents to a less subtle form of market manipulation. I don't suppose...???

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 11:38 AM

They were for Halifax Building Society - we created the big X theme when it was still a respectable organisation. I don't think I even have copies myself - if I do, they'll be on 35mm (well you wouldn't expect Nic to shoot on anything else!)

Don't forget that many of the most respected film makers started off as commercials directors. In the past I've worked with Alan Parker, Ridley Scott (his lady, Sandy Watson, was the TV producer at the agency where I worked), Richard Loncraine, Dick Lester and Gary Sherman (who was a great friend of mine).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 02:55 AM

TV commercials fascinate me as a genre; long after the death of the product they might remain encoded in the cultural & personal subconsciousness as vivid little vignettes evocative of an entire epoch. One of my all time - er - favourites consisted of two separate jingles: the first - Villa in Spain we adore you - we've waited twenty years for you (sung to a tune I couldn't name); and the second - Happiness, happiness, is the boat the we possess sung to Ken Dodd's theme tune. Whilst it's still Ken Dodd's theme tune, I'm think maybe I'm the only one alive that remember the surreal reconstruction that remains embedded in my brain some thirty years on...

Adverts can often be consummate reductions to the very essence of an Englishness that might otherwise remain all too elusive. Here's a couple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr-lNUyuFWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nXO_DS6XrM

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:42 AM

I do so agree with you SOP. The encapsulation of a story, a message, an idea and a sales pitch into 30 seconds is hard enough - to make it amusing and entertaining is an art form in itself.

Here's some of my favourites:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkBIIZcLmQQ&feature=PlayList&p=B2A52C2AEB4268EC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=5

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 03:46 AM

Hey, that's a point. We could rent out the RIV as the perefct location for eccentric TV and cinema commercials.

BTW, has anyone heard the story about when Ranulph Fiennes dynamited the set of Bedknobs and Broomsticks because they had damned the stream in his local village where they were filming? Hilarious!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 02:20 PM

I first saw the abovementioned film "Walkabout" a couple of years ago on TV here, TL - beautiful and powerful.

Now, you better tell us the damned-stream story...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 05:59 AM

Sorry, it was Dr Dolittle, not Bedknobs and Broomsticks:

"Offended by the construction of a concrete dam built for a film production of Doctor Dolittle at Castle Coombe, Wiltshire, Fiennes and an SAS comrade demolished the dam (using explosives Fiennes had obtained for authorised demolitions, but which by dint of efficiency he had been able to save). Both fled, and Fiennes (who had recently completed a training course on evading dogs) escaped capture - but his comrade did not, and both were subsequently discharged from the SAS and returned to their regiments."

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:01 AM

12.10pm - Billy takes a rabbit pie round to Noel who is particular impressed by the decoration on the crust.

That should of course be Nigel who gets the pie. So who's Noel? Nigel's late father - Noel Dorchester, a very worthy man who frequently turns in his grave at the antics of his grandson Neil and his FM-dancing girlfriend Kylie, especially as Kylie is the love-child of Noel's affair with Annie... Oh dear! Will Annie tell Neil that his girlfriend is, in fact, his aunt? Or will she just keep slipping condoms into Neil's coat pocket when he hangs it up in the hall against her better judgement? After all, Neil is only 13, though at 15, Kylie is a good deal more worldly. Let's hope the poaching, FM-dancing and vandalism keep them happy...

It's a very fine pie anyway - decorated with cut-out pastry patterns of sun, moon, trees and bunnies, brushed o-er with egg white to give a nice folksy glaze. Whilst Nigel doesn't let his Muscular-Dystrophy get in the way of a normal life (his passion for the more obscure end early 70's folk rock notwithstanding) he does enjoy the sympathy it engenders in otherwise curmudgeonly old bastards like Billy and Mary, who had a son of their own once...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:40 AM

"Villa in Spain we adore you - we've waited twenty years for you (sung to a tune I couldn't name);"

Lady of Spain?


Lady of Spain, I adore you
Right from the night I first saw you
My heart has been yearning for you
What else could any heart do?
Lady of Spain, I'm appealing
Why should my lips be concealing
All that my eyes are revealing?
Lady of Spain, I love you

Night in Madrid, blue and tender
Spanish moon makes silver splendor
Music throbbing, plaintive sobbing notes of a guitar
While ardent caballeros serenade:

Lady of Spain, I adore you
Right from the night I first saw you
My heart has been yearning for you
What else could any heart do?
Lady of Spain, I'm appealing
Why should my lips be concealing
All that my eyes are revealing?
Lady of Spain, I love you

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:58 AM

More than one story teller in the RIV then - S., along with Taffy Thomas, is actually a busy regular at an important folk festival of the NE...

Poem 193 of 230: THE 35TH MORPETH NORTHUMBRIAN GATHERING – SPRING 2002

Toward Morpeth's Gathering,
    Either side of Great North Road,
Daffodils gleefully showed
    Their stalk-dressing flowering.

And then, at the Gathering,
    Another great flowering
Of English heritage, showed
    Through competitions that glowed
With competent folk-singing,
    Storytelling, bag-piping
(The small-pipes rapidly rode
    By hands, in staccato mode),
Clogdancing and stick-dressing:
    Things that are worth addressing.

From http://walkaboutsverse.741.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 07:17 AM

Lady of Spain?

That sounds about right, Ruth. That advert still haunts my dreams - transcending the realms of the mere Surreal into those of pure Dada.

S., along with Taffy Thomas, is actually a busy regular at an important folk festival of the NE...

Never seen you at any of the Gathering storytelling sessions, WAV. For the last three years Taffy and I have done a two-hander in the Millennium Garden on the Saturday evening - the increasingly popular Twilight Tales, spooky tales & supernatural ballads complete with a blazing brazier of well-seasoned beech logs. Great fun! Maybe see you next year...

On the subject of worthy storytellers, I bought a copy of Bob Pegg's Folk on ebay the other day; if the vendor does his job it ought to be arriving in the post today, or maybe tomorrow. This, along with Bob Pegg's Rites and Riots, is one of Nigel Dorchester's favourite books.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 07:28 AM

I used to go in the Saturday singing comps and still go to the Saturday singaround, S., and thus haven't caught you yet - but I did notice the flyers and, as you say, hopefully next year...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 08:17 AM

Minutes of the ReImagined Village Parish Council Meeting

Present:
Sir Winford Toadstrangler-Gout (Chair)
Lawrence Goatdung
Noel Dorchester (deceased)
Amelia Prickgroper
Rev. Warton Pederast
Lorrinda Nicelady
Will Knot (Parish Clerk)


Current Business.

1.        Installation of a ducking stool at the village pond.
It was agreed to provide the sum of £150 from parish funds for the construction on condition that its use be restricted to recreational purposes and that resulting witch-burning be confined to fund raising at the village fete.

2.        Dog fouling.
It was proposed that the owner of any dog caught fouling the pavements should have his or her nose rubbed in it. This was agreed unanimously.

3.        Provision of a folk/rock record library.
Following the offer from several residents of donations of vinyl LPs by folk/rock combos Mr Fox, Albion Band, Steeleye Span and Fotheringay, it was agreed to allow redundant shelving in the Pornography and Jam Making sections of the village library (available as all the books have been purloined)to be used to house this collection.

4.        Removal of Noel Dorchester from the Parish Council.
It was proposed that Mr Noel Dorchester be removed from the Parish Council on the grounds that he had been dead for over two years and was attracting an abundance of flies. Mr Dorchester was asked to leave the room while this was discussed but, as parts of him remained, a decision was put on hold.

5.        An increase in lycanthropic incidents.
Rev. Pederast drew the council's attention to recent activity following the full moon resulting in several sheep having their throats torn out, the discovery of the dismembered body of village postman, Ivor Parcelforyer, and deep claw marks in the church door. It was agreed to provide Mrs Barghest with a strong set of chains and instructions on how and when to apply them to her husband.

The Chairman suspended the meeting following an unpleasant incident involving a village resident, a rabbit pie and indecent pictures of an Australian pornographer.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 11:53 AM

Just realised, the RIV hasn't got a name. How about:

Cattersholme
Folkhall
Bitter End
Little Giddy (with apologies to T S Elliot)

I'm sure others can come up with some better ones.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:09 PM

How about Rivington? Then we get a reference to one of the more obscure Doo-Wop groups of the early 60s who actually came up with this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edYQiZxyw0I

The landlord at The Siberian Khatru keeps his gleaming vintage Rock-Ola Jukebox well stocked in this respect. Neil and Kylie might be seen jiving to such stuff most nights as WAV looks on muttering into his mead 'n' chips about Our Own Good English Culture whilst missing the point that this is Our Own Good English Culture... Rivington Soul Nights? You bet!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 12:21 PM

Furhter to this..."4.       Removal of Noel Dorchester from the Parish Council.
It was proposed that Mr Noel Dorchester be removed from the Parish Council on the grounds that he had been dead for over two years and was attracting an abundance of flies. Mr Dorchester was asked to leave the room while this was discussed but, as parts of him remained, a decision was put on hold."...Some six years ago, Dorthester told me, on the quiet, that he MUST face east.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 01:25 PM

"Minutes of the ReImagined Village Parish Council Meeting

Present:
Sir Winford Toadstrangler-Gout (Chair)" [etceteras]

Lovely re-imagined gothic/surreal stuff Leveller. Have you been at the Mervyn Peake?

With ref. to the resident plot-makers - we really aughta get to the village Murder sharpish dontcha think? It's a bit behindhand...

Possible Murder Weapon: - strange funghi in the rabbit pie. Or is that too passe?
Hypnotised ninja fluffy Morris Dancers weilding err suffocating fluffy pompoms which emit a mysterious poison gas.
The village maypole (for shock village fete/Pagan style Christ sacrifice scene possibilities).
A deadly poisonous hybridised orchid, bred by local orchid fanatic/librarian/pyscho.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 01:37 PM

Ah yes, CS - we hadn't thought of that: how did Dorchester die?...messy inquest!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 03:51 PM

Let's keep things in perspective here you chaps.

Mr Noel Dorchester committed suicide after taking a mouthful of the albatross served up in a restaurant whilst on holiday in Madeira. Prior to that he's been the happiest man alive - vivacious wife, even more vivacious lover, beautiful (if illegitimate) daughter, loving (if severely disabled) son, lively (if slightly manic) grandson etc. etc.

A tragic if somewhat baffling set of circumstances. Perhaps one you budding sleuths out there might provide a solution...

Meanwile, Nigel Dorchester is playing Mr Fox's The Gypsy very loud indeed whilst putting the finishing touches to his 00-scale model of Rivington Halt, circa 1935. Mendle is an especial favourite.

Elsewhere, the fastidious Mrs Janice Poulton is convinced that the breakage of a valuable piece of crockery (an identical piece was valued at £800 on a recent episode of The Antiques Roadshow) is due to poltergeist activity consequent on the discovery of a mummified cat in the wainscoting of their 17th century farm house.

Mr Peter Poulton is down at the Khatru with his mates for the Friday quiz unaware of the distress that his wife phoning the vicar for advice.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 04:33 PM

Re. Dorchester's death, S., I heard otherwise: Eastwood's grave digger, Doug Green, thinks it was fungi, and wants to make bacon of our Village Squire.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 04:33 AM

thinks it was fungi,

Maybe he's right at that given that Mr Noel Dorchester was not only the president of The Rivington Mycology Club but also editor of The Mycologist Monthly so if anyone would know to do it, then he would. Whilst the grisly details of Mr Dorchester's suicide have never been forthcoming, speculation amongst the villagers continues to be rife, as WAV suggests, with many suspecting foul play. The burning question is - why would a man who has everything going for him (a noted fun guy indeed) wish to take his own life after tasting a mouthful of albatross flesh?

Elsewhere - Mr Dorchester's grandson Neil is irritated to discover yet another packet of condoms in his jacket pocket. Who is putting them there? And for why? And what's that shit his father is playing down in the kitchen this morning?

One of these mysteries might be answered, for much to his delight Nigel Dorchester discovered a web-link where one might download And Now it is So Early entirely gratis. This little known album of Sydney Carter songs was recorded by Bob and Carol Pegg (with Mr Carter himself) at some point circa 1970/71 and represents something of a genuine curio in the canon of English Folk Rock. This is the link he used: http://rapidshare.com/files/175356188/sc-aniise.rar - which comes complete with full album graphics though being rar, Nigel found he had to download additional software before he could open the files. A minor inconvenience, because he can now enjoy this rare slab of vintage Wyrd which hitherto has existed only in rumour alone.

Meanwhile - Janice Poulton is making tidy for the arrival of the vicar, one Timothy Tugtodger, who is due at 10.00am...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 04:55 AM

"With ref. to the resident plot-makers - we really aughta get to the village Murder sharpish dontcha think? It's a bit behindhand..."

Well, yes, but just bear in mind the effects on rural depopulation as witnessed in Midsomer.The only person who would be happy would be the village sexton, Catchpole Boneburier; "us Boneburiers has been putting folk underground for nigh on six centuries."

"The landlord at The Siberian Khatru"

Has the pub name changed? I thought it was The Evil Dreaming Eagle.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 05:12 AM

I know what the Cockneys will be saying re. Dorchester - someone's telling porky pies.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 07:41 AM

Hooray! The Kelly twins are opening their Subway today in what used to be Mr Prosser's Concertina Emporium. The opening offer is a 6" Sub + drink + cookie all for a quid. It is noticed old Mr Prosser is first in the queue...

Elsewhere meanwhile, on the advice of the Rev. Tugtodger, Mrs Poulton is trying to reach Father James McSweeney at the presbytery of Saint Mary's over in East Rivington. Father James however is out making the most of the good weather by flying his scale model Fokker Triplane (complete with web-cam) on Rivington Heath.

As she puts the phone down, Mrs Poulton catches sight of a cat jumping up on the television set. Of course there is no cat, but the antique pottery penguin on the TV falls off on to the shag-pile carpet, thankfully unharmed. At this point she changes her plans for the day and goes out to take advantage of the offers at the new Subway.

'I hear you're having a spot of bother, Mrs Poulton - '
'Bother, Mr Prosser? Well, you'd know al about that I'm sure - '
'Never any bother here, Mrs Poulton - least not that sort - '
'So why sell up to the Kelly brothers when business was booming?'
'Can't get the weasels, Mrs Poulton - not anymore - not the good ones - '
'I thought you had young Dorchester catching them for you?'
'Cleaned 'em out, pretty much - and the new houses don't help - best weasel's allus came from Peg's Yard - everyone knows that - '
'A weasel is a weasel, surely?'
'Not for concertina bellows it ain't, Mrs Poulton. So what about this 'ere ghost they're on about? Cat is it?'
'Need you ask?'
'Never thought of just - putting it back?'
'I'm not having dead animals in my house, Mr Prosser - and I'm not about to give in to - superstition and - witchcraft, which is what it amounts too.'
'Funny that, you being into all that folk singing and all - never had any folk singing in my day I must say - new fangled bit of nonsense so it is. Still - kept me in business these many years!'
'I fail to see what singing traditional folk songs has got to do with - dead cats.'
'Funny old ways, Mrs Poulton - funny old ways - or so they say.'
'Anyway - what are the sandwiches like?'
'They're better toasted - but avoid the chillies - '

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 09:36 AM

Having touched on the ancient combined office of sexton and undertaker in the village, a little more explanation of this may be useful. New residents to the village are often curious as to why this office remains in the one family and why the services are performed free of charge. They are usually directed to the village library and to two books there. The first, by Digby Boneburier, Catchpole's father, is entitled Necrophilia for Dummies, and the second, a much lighter read by Catchpole himself, is called How Was It For You – Unanswered Questions About Necrophilia.

In actual fact, the office was granted by charter by Richard II following the Peasants' Revolt of 1381, for the disposal of the remains of those executed in the persecutions following the uprising. When pressed and plied with a substantial amount of Sneck Lifter beer, Catchpole will produce an ancient and very grubby document, which states that "…the holder shall be called, in name and title, Bone Buryer, and the office shall be past from father to sonne in perpertuitie. For the performance of this office neither gold nor silver shall be given but the holder may, in whatsoever way he may deem fitting, use for the sateing of his carnal lusts, the bodies of the deceased."

This may, some say, account for the great age to which many maiden ladies in the village live and also for their greeting to each other: "Ah see Boneburier an't 'ad thee yet".

On cold winter days when his services are most in demand, the cheerfull whistling of Mr Fox's The Hanged Man can be heard emanating from ever-deepening holes in the churchyard, and curious passersby will stop and wonder: who will Boneburier have in his bed tonight?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:08 AM

"The burning question is - why would a man who has everything going for him (a noted fun guy indeed) wish to take his own life after tasting a mouthful of albatross flesh?"

Could the answer lie here?


"Are those her ribs through which the Sun
Did peer, as through a grate?
And is that Woman all her crew?
Is that a DEATH? and are there two?
Is DEATH that woman's mate?"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 10:17 AM

You're getting warm, but you won't find the answer in Coleridge.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:08 AM

3.55pm - Having dosed off whilst watching South Pacific, Mrs Poulton wakes suddenly on the sofa as though from a scratch. She looks in the front room mirror to find three parallel claw marks on her cheek, each yielding beads of blood.

3.57pm - Father James answers a call from a rather hysterical female from Rivington village. He is not in the least bit surprised at what she tells him and promises to be over after the racing.

Note: In researching that last bit, I've just switched on Channel 4 and I'm sitting here in a state of mesmerised delight at the ensuing images and atmosphere here on this rainy Saturday afternoon. Can there be anything more English than horse-racing? Anyway, it's finished now, so I dare say Father James will be on his way over to Rivington in his beloved Volvo, there to attend to Mrs Poulton's singular disturbance.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:29 AM

"You're getting warm, but you won't find the answer in Coleridge. "

Monty Python?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 11:49 AM

Actually, I suspect that the answer may be a lot more sinister.I heard that he was once cast adrift in an open boat with two other people. After a deep sleep he awoke to find one of the others missing but the remaining man offered him some meat, saying that their companion had gone crazy and jumped overboard but that he had managed to catch an albatross and this was Noel's share.


When Noel later tasted the albatross in Madeira, he realised that the meat tasted nothing like that which he had eaten on the open boat.......


Anthropophogy is a terrible thing to live with.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Aug 09 - 12:58 PM

...either way, when Olde Dorchester stopped ringing our C of E's national instrument,
I knew he wasn't well -
after that, he wouldn't take a pew with anyone. :-(>

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 04:17 AM

Well, you're partly right there, WAV - as Old Mr Dorchester, the late Noel's late father, was a prominent campanologist in his day. Not only was he tirelessly involved in bell-ringing in the village church, but amassed the collection of over 3000 bells from all ages and cultures that still reside in the family home, currently occupied by Nigel, Fiona and Neil.

Few know about Noel Dorchester's foray into cannibalism, however so unwitting that foray might have been. His wife knew about the shipwreck incident, and how his life was saved by eating albatross - indeed it was a tale he dined out on many the time, and it was her idea that they should have the albatross on that fateful night by way of celebrating their 45th anniversary. In many ways it is easier for Mr Dorchester to allow the rumours of foul play to persist, rather than face the shame if the truth was to become known. Fowl play? Heaven knows she is a proud woman, despite her long standing affairs with the likes of Harry and Billy, aka The Yeddle Twins, two bits of rough she has been carrying on with since they were in Noel's employ (as gardeners and roadies) back in the late 1960s.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 04:35 AM

...he certainly could wing-it on those bells, S.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 05:03 AM

PS - Nigel has found something rather wonderful watch this morning on You Tube, though Kylie, having called round for young Neil, looks on somewhat baffled...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x76CeJBbJs8

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 08:03 AM

Re: "3.       Provision of a folk/rock record library.
Following the offer from several residents of donations of vinyl LPs by folk/rock combos Mr Fox, Albion Band, Steeleye Span and Fotheringay, it was agreed to allow redundant shelving in the Pornography and Jam Making sections of the village library (available as all the books have been purloined)to be used to house this collection."...On patriotic grounds, I move we remove the "rock" element.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 08:33 AM

On patriotic grounds, I move we remove the "rock" element.

Balls. Rock Music has a good deal more relevance to Our Own Good English Culture than Folky Folk Music will ever have. Rock is a real living music that appeals to a growing audience of millions - Folky Folk is a revivalist fantasy that appeals to a dwindling audience of hundreds. Rock, in other words, is our real Popular Folk Music which allows for a far greater creative expression and experience of Englishness than Folky Folk ever can.

Folky Folk bands like Mr Fox were only too aware of this, creating two stunningly idiosyncratic albums drawing on the sonic influences of traditional Yorkshire fiddle styles fused with that of the Third Ear Band and the Velvet Underground, which featured Welshman John Cale, whose iconic viola style was inspired by what the Welsh crwth might have sounded like at a time long before the current revival of that particular instrument. I must admit much of my own crwth playing is inspired by the Third Ear Band, Carole Pegg & John Cale - so the folk process continues!

As I said elsewhere, WAV - in your understanding of Music & Culture you are a kid with a toy boat who feels himself moved to advise seasoned shellbacks on their seamanship. Time you started to listen, and learn, and really appreciate the boundless wonders of the culture you claim to love but manifestly know so little about.

Here's some Third Ear Band, circa 1970, featuring an entirely acoustic quartet of oboe, violin, cello & percussion. It doesn't get any more English than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXiR3dOeSrU

*

Getting back to the subject of bells...

Some years ago I bought a heavy brass antique cow-bell in the Trading Post antiques centre in Wells nearby where we were staying at the time.

'Aha!' said the proprietor. ' - The bell that saved the cow!'
'Beg pardon, dear boy?' says I, always on my best down south.
'That bell saved a cow's life - least it did according to the old woman who brought it in - '

And so he went on to relate as provenance a tale set in the first world war, involving a French dairyman, many miles from the front line, and a group of hungry German soldiers wandering AWOL, one of whom took a shot at a cow with their last bullet which struck the bell that hung around the animal's neck. The cowherd first heard the shot, followed by the clang, and then saw the terrified animal running pell-mell across the pasture with a group of starving German soldiers running after it. All was resolved amicably; the soldiers were fed, and sent on their way, and the bell kept as a conversation piece, passed on through the family until it ended up in the Trading Post where I bought it for the paltry sum of five English pounds.

It now has pride of place in my own collection of World Animal Bells (Chamonix bells of various grades, Egyptian camel bells, wooden bells from Tibet & Eastern Europe etc. etc.) and I might often take it along on storytelling gigs to relate the tale of The Bell that Saved the Cow in prelude to The Cow that Ate the Piper.

At no point have I ever questioned the truth of the provenance; it is an artefact with a story attached and that's the only truth that matters as far as I'm concerned.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 12:26 PM

With all due respect, S., the rock element (along with quite-dead Dorchester - facing east) should be removed; RI villagers may listen to Americans perform their rock - but not perform it, nor support, by way of recordings held, other English folk so doing.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:33 PM

RI villagers may listen to Americans perform their rock - but not perform it, nor support, by way of recordings held, other English folk so doing.

Know what? I've listened to far more English Rock than I ever have English folk and continue to do so. I'm reminded of an anecdote in which it fell to some Earnest Young Folkies to put English uber-traddy Peter Bellamy up after a gig. Arriving back at the flat they thought to impress him with their LPs of English Folk, but no sooner had the stylus hit the vinyl than Bellamy objects, insisting that they take it off forthwith and play some real music, like The Rolling Stones. I'm much the same actually - a lifetime immersed in British, German and French Rock Music (albeit of the Prog Variety); likewise British, Spanish, Italian (etc.) Early Classical Music (from Middle Ages to the Baroque), which, like Rock Music is truly Universal in its Myriad National Diversities.

Another day in the stocks for you, WAV - for spouting such inhumane and unrealistic fascistic crap. Anyone would think you enjoyed it...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 02:36 PM

PS - Jazz likewise: African-American, African, American, English, German, Scottish, Scandinavian, Saturnian, Ancient Egyptian...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 04:27 PM

As I had to say to Jim Moray on the Sidders thread, S., "fascism" is opposed to democracy and socialism and, thus, I am opposed to it. English folk who wish to perform more than the tune may venture into English classical music - with it's use of harmony and other more-sophisticated techniques. Jazz, rock, and pop are American genres that have been copied by citizens of the above nations you mention - often to the detriment of their own trad forms and, thus, our multicultural world. In this way, nationalism with conquest is bad, but nationalism with eco-travel and fair-trade is good for humanity. (For more on this you may like to check my Messages.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Aug 09 - 06:23 PM

WAV - I give up.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:04 AM

Feeling slightly more charitable this morning after my morning stroll through the deserted village. A few points to ponder before I pack up and get on my way myself; I rather fancy emigrating to Australia...

As I had to say to Jim Moray on the Sidders thread, S., "fascism" is opposed to democracy and socialism and, thus, I am opposed to it.   

You are a fascist in that you believe in one resolute authority (i.e. your own) in which every point contradicts the actual human reality of the situation. You see your ideal as being right whilst everyone else is wrong. There is nothing remotely democratic or socialist about this - on the contrary - thus you are, in truth, a Fascist who stamps his jack-booted Walkabout ignorance on the face of all human truth, culture, beauty & spirituality.

English folk who wish to perform more than the tune may venture into English classical music - with it's use of harmony and other more-sophisticated techniques.

All Classical Music is the consequence of musical developments that took place in cathedrals, churches, royal courts and universities throughout Europe since the Middle Ages. English Classical Music is but part of these very non-English influences and continues to be so to this day. If you accept an English Classical Music, you must also accept an English Jazz, an English Pop, and an English Rock.

Jazz, rock, and pop are American genres that have been copied by citizens of the above nations you mention - often to the detriment of their own trad forms and, thus, our multicultural world.

American Culture is a dynamic cross-fertilisation of the European and the African wherein new forms were created and fed back to their mother countries where they were further enhanced. To call Jazz, Rock and Pop American is to miss the point of 20th century popular musical history which is, in fact, Global, with many of the more significant innovations taking place outside America. And as for such things being detrimental to so-called trad-forms, even by the time the Bright Young Things of the 1920s were jitter-bugging to the Jazz Age, such trad. forms were long dead, as far as they were ever alive at all. Folk Music is a revivalist fantasy that was never Our Own Good Culture, thus it remains the irrelevance that is today. But hardly the wonder cultural fascists such as yourself latch onto it, WAV - tainting its quaint anachronistic charm with your vile racist philosophies. Oh, and the baby boomer Folk Revival, Folk Clubs and all was inspired by what was happening in America. It is no coincidence that Mudcat and The Digital Tradition are American.

In this way, nationalism with conquest is bad, but nationalism with eco-travel and fair-trade is good for humanity. (For more on this you may like to check my Messages.

You are mired in your nonsensical repetitions and rhetoric; you have made a prisoner of yourself, hemmed in by such Messages that are racist, fascistic, misanthropic, and just plain WRONG WRONG WRONG - as you've been told, over and over and over... You're a lost cause, WAV. This time I really do give up. Let me know when you've binned the lot, and then we might have something to work with.

S O'P

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:05 AM

"I must admit much of my own crwth playing is inspired by the Third Ear Band, Carole Pegg & John Cale - so the folk process continues!"

It occured to me recently, when listeing to Mr Fox, that the way I play cittern has some of the patterns of Carole Pegg's Yorkshire style fiddle playing. The influence is definitely there, though probably subconscious. Having recently inherited an old Fender Twin Reverb amp, I'm currently having a huge amount of fun playing my acoustic through it (even tried the cittern but the feedback is ear-splitting). Someone once described my style of playing as "psychfolk" and it sounds even more so when amplified and given lots of reverb.

So, sorry WAV, but the Folk Police have no authority in the RIV - no-one's going to stop me rocking up Reynardine (of which, incidentally Gordon Tyrall does a mean version with really weird looped effects).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:35 AM

Having recently inherited an old Fender Twin Reverb amp, I'm currently having a huge amount of fun playing my acoustic through it (even tried the cittern but the feedback is ear-splitting). Someone once described my style of playing as "psychfolk" and it sounds even more so when amplified and given lots of reverb.

Yeah! Love it! At least a bit of real folk! My wife bought a Roland Micro Cube the other day for her Purple Heart Daisyrock; lots of sweet FX, so she can get a real Cocteau Twins vibe going on her accompaniments. Two of the songs for the new Fylde show this year (DEMDYKE! - more of which anon) feature Rachel's Daisyrock in consort with Ross Campbell's Fylde Cittern and my Crwth (both unamplified) - the effect is, of course, utterly delicious!

I'm poised on buying an electric bass; not sure what yet, but I have a notion that the bass is not only my natural instrument but also the ideal thing for accompanying traditional folk songs. The set up will include a Micro Cube bass amp, a Line 1 Delay modeller, and a fuzz/wah pedal. The bass was my first instrument, but I haven't had one for years, although in music shops I often plug in a Precision and do my Janik Topp approximations much to the bafflement of the local kids & staff alike...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 06:22 AM

I'd like to hear that, SoB - turn up the volume and blast it across the village.

I tuned my big Lowden down to Csus, which gives a fantastic bass C 'thunk' combined with fast pull-offs and hammer-ons on all strings, right up the fretboard. The effect I get has overtones of John Martyn - and then I just came across this description of what John did:

"Within the following year (1972) he discovered that by tuning the guitar low and using repeat echo he could play with and over his own guitar figures, and create bass and percussion".

I also had a go at my own version of Spencer the Rover – totally different to John's but nice sound, especially with mrsleveller playing eerie whistle over it.

The only problem is, if I want to play this in public, I have to lug a hugely heavy old valve amp around (which actually gave my father-in-law, who left it to me, a hernia).

BTW: Fylde cittern – nice! Got one myself.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 07:09 AM

SoP, I'm fascinated by the crwth – can you tell me how it's tuned? I'd actually quite like to build one – is there anywhere I can get details of dimensions, scale length, etc? I once built a psaltery but it's such a sod to tune that it just stays on a shelf now.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 08:13 AM

My crwth was made back in 1987 by Tim Hobrough - thus pre-dating the current Crwth Revival by some years. Certainly it's a very different instrument to those you see these days, but it was good enough for Welsh traditional singer Suisan George (RIP) with whom I enjoyed a very memorable session at the Aust Festival in 1999. Basically, my crwth has medieval fiddle-frets (heresy!), and a slightly curved bridge (burn it!!) and it's five strings tuned concordantly in E & B. I see it more of a hypothetical early Northern European bowed-lyre than a crwth proper, as far as such instruments existed at all, but pedantry is the sad product of any revival - so CRWTH I must insist it is! That said, I like the crwths as played by Cas Muerig etc. and was actually planning to get one before The Black Sea Fiddle came into my life proving itself the ideal instrument for my particular approach to Folk, even more so than the crwth. The same Third Ear / C. Pegg influences apply of course, just that the Black Sea Fiddle (aka Karadeniz Kemence) is easier to play on the hoof & better for accompanying E. Trads, especially with an electronic Shruti Box drone, such as:
      
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3FRvTDWqnM

And a bit of Feral Tertius Auris on the crwth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTQGXIu5QHA

There's a few revival crwths on YouTube too which are worth having a look at. There was even a Mudcat thread at one point on which I roundly ignored!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 09:19 AM

Thanks for that – I'm getting an idea now of how to proceed. I've got a pretty good indication of construction from the pictures on Michael J King's website and I'm thinking Sycamore and Spruce might be the right materials – the former should be resilient enough to take psaltery/zither tuning pegs and both are readily available. The idea of frets seems like a good idea and would mean the bridge will be at right angles to the strings rather than at an acute angle (presumably this made it easier for the bridge to rest on the face and back). Obviously, this will mean revising the soundhole positioning.

I'll have to draw up some plans and experiment a bit. I reckon this is going to be my winter project. No doubt the quiet peace of the RIV will be disturbed by loud and inventive expletives as I get it wrong.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 10:37 AM

My crwth bridge is footed in the Welsh style and does just fine at right angles. No doubt there is a reason for the angled bridge, given that traditionally all the strings would have been bowed at the same time, a la John Cale's viola. This is what you find in other Northern-European bowed-lyes such as the talharp and jouhikko (which have stings of twisted horse-hair) though there the bridge arrangement is more straightforward. A good book to look out for is Otto Andersson's The Bowed Harp. I ordered my edition brand new in 1982 and got a first edition (1930) from the publishers (Reeves); not sure of its availability these days, or even if it made it into a second editon...

I use nylon classical guitar strings, with the un-wound strings buffed up with emery paper to facilitate bowing. The bow I've been using for the last 10 years is from a Chinese er-hu & works like a dream. For frets I use Drennan Specimen Plus 16lb nylon fishing line.

You might gather that I consider musical pragmatics to be of far greater importance than authenticity!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 02:12 PM

I've not been participating in this thread, but I must really jump in here and pose a question about the Turkish Kemence which I've seen and heard on YouTube in two environments: there's the native Turkish environment which is interesting but a little beyond my old-fashioned ears; then there's the Suibhne O'Piobaireachd environment which - and I have to be honest here - I found absolutely fascinating.

Is this instruments difficult to get to grips with (I won't be so presumptious as to say "master")? It seems perfect for getting somehow to the heart of traditional folk song, and giving it a setting which emphasises a necessary other-world quality. I'm also fascinated by the left-hand/fingering/holding technique in which the instrument seems to float.

In passing, "Rivington" is a real village, and a very beautiful anc ancient one, at the foot of Rivington Pike (my stamping ground in the early 50s).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 03:33 PM

Hi Will. Thinking of moving in? I'm sure you could imagine a very desireable property - especailly a it's rapidly becoming The Deserted Village (sorry, folks, are we boring you?)

SoP, thanks for the info. I managed to order a copy of The Bowed Harp for eight quid. This project ios getting really interesting. Like you, not bothered about autheticity, just the sound. I've worked out how to incorporate banjo 5th sting tuners in place of tuning posts which, in my experience, aren't totally stisfactory on the psaltery (aaaargh, I can hear the purists screaming). I'm also going to ask a guitar maker of my acquaintancde about the bracing of the face, thicknesses etc. One question though, if you'd be so kind - is the fishing line for frets tied around the neck or glued to the fretboard?

As to tuning, I'm considering the tuning I use on the cittern which, by and large, uses the 5th string as a drone.

Now then, Will, there's a lovely pair of labourers' cottages round the corner that I noticed are up for sale.......(don't listen the old wives' tales, they're very pleasnt).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:06 PM

I'm interested in one of the cottages, TL - maybe a wildlife pond will do instead of a "lake", and a patch instead of a "plot"...and that cittern...is it 5 times 2 (wire) strings...could I get a feather-plectrum for it - and what bird?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:16 PM

"RI villagers may listen to Americans perform their rock - but not perform it, nor support, by way of recordings held, other English folk so doing."
- WalkaboutsVerse

one extremely good reason for not participating in this thread....
and I'll continue to listen to what I choose to listen to!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:46 PM

...but what bird, JWO Beak?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 04:49 PM

you're the one who seems to think it's VERY english to play the cittern (personally I find it a very boring instrument), so you figure out what bird (whatever that means)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM

Er - 600?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Aug 09 - 05:52 PM

Is this instruments difficult to get to grips with (I won't be so presumptious as to say "master")? It seems perfect for getting somehow to the heart of traditional folk song, and giving it a setting which emphasises a necessary other-world quality. I'm also fascinated by the left-hand/fingering/holding technique in which the instrument seems to float.

I bought mine very cheaply off Ebay three or four years ago to use for a series of nocturnal al-fresco winter woodland storytelling gigs having watched traditional Karadeniz Kemence players on YouTube. The ergonomics of the instrument are that you do play it dangling off the thumb, and can push it up to the floating horizontal. It's tuned in 4ths (EAD) so the finger positions are easy and it gives me pretty much any tune I ask of it. Problem is - getting a good one. Mine is exceptional amongst other cheap ones I've seen which tend to be pretty unplayable. The Turkish Karadeniz Kemence is more or less the same instrument as the Greek Pontic Lyra. I'm giving serious thought to progressing onto the Lyra, but it'll cost a lot more than the £20 I paid for my Black Sea Fiddle.

There is a nice site - http://www.kemence.com/ - with some fine instruments, though the maker seems very fond of jewels! I do like his four-string with the fiddle head; I often dream of a fourth string (thoughif you capo a violin it's possible to play it like a kemence, though you do get odd looks).   

I am no master (check out the traditional players / singers on YouTube; THIS ONE is an especial favourite!) but I took to the instrument like a duck to water. If you go to the SHIBBOLETH myspace page & listen to the track Terra Suum Oss you'll hear a duo improvisation recorded with percussionist Clive Powell when I'd had the instrument for a week. Thing is, whilst I've learned a lot of tunes & songs over the years, I don't think I actually play it now any better than I did back then!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 03:31 AM

"and that cittern...is it 5 times 2 (wire) strings...could I get a feather-plectrum for it - and what bird?"

It's a Fylde 10-string and it needs something a lot more robust than a feather to play it. I use a Jim Dunlop Delrin .71mm plectrum. In fact I use a lot, as it blunts the edges after about a week. This is not some polite traditional instrument, WAV; it's a modern concept, first thought up by Stephan Sobell, and it's a bit of a beast - perfect for the "psychfolk" stuff I like.

"(personally I find it a very boring instrument)"

Ollie, like any instrument, that rather depends how it's played.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:19 AM

The players of the Barber Shop Cittern actually used starling feathers, with the pointed end being pushed in hard beneath the fingernails so they might brush the strings with the soft ends. This being 17th century London, infection was common despite the liberal use of antiseptics with many players losing fingers, hands, arms, and in many cases lives in consequence of their somewhat perverse craft. It was the fashion for a time for many non-musical dilettantes to push feathers beneath their fingernails so as to impress the ladies that they too were musicianers. Seems this also enhanced a ladies pleasure in the bedroom (or more likely the back alley) though not without further risk of infection, which was pretty much par for the course in 17th century London.

Happily, the tradition of Barber Shop Citterns still exists in the Lancastrian towns of Preston (latterly a city), Blackpool and Lancaster, though these days the players use sellotape (that Durex to you, WAV) to affix the feathers to their finger tips. It is thrilling to hear their repertoires of Traditional English Folk Songs being self-accompanied by lustrous chordal polyphonies as they have been since the 16th century. This is facilitated by the Barber Shop Cittern's re-entrant tuning, similar to many modern 5-string banjo and ukulele tunings enabling chords to be played easily so the performer might concentrate on their singing.         

It is interesting to ponder the etymology of the word Cittern with respect of its place as an instrument of English Nationalism. Methinks if we removed all things & peoples of Foreign Origin from England there'd be little & no-one left.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 04:45 AM

I found out recently that the list of vegetables introduced to Britain by the Romans, and therefore not native, includes garlic, onions, shallots, leeks, cabbages, peas, celery, turnips, radishes, and asparagus. If the diet in the RIV consists only of native foods, and the gardens (including allotments) only host native species, the vegetarians are going to have a pretty boring diet, aren't they?

Oh - they also introduced apples and cherries. So that's pud done for.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:18 AM

Yes Ruth, but it's been said (here, e.g.) that vegetables, herbs and other consumables should be excluded from the native-flora for native-fauna rule, in order to limit food miles, etc.

So starling - not albatross nor bittern for the trad plucking of a cittern , thanks, S. And TL - it's a polymer plectrum for 10 WIRE strings you mention, yes?

"you're the one who seems to think it's VERY english to play the cittern (personally I find it a very boring instrument), so you figure out what bird (whatever that means)"...No, no - haven't you heard the tongue-twister, Beak?...

Peter Piper placed aside his pipes and settled with his cittern.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:25 AM

"I found out recently that the list of vegetables introduced to Britain by the Romans"

To say nothing of all the flower varieties introduced over the years - including many that make up the "traditional" cottage garden.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:25 AM

Well, that's convenient.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 05:50 AM

...loss of native habitat IS a significant problem, and gardeners can do their bit - digging for native fauna - by planting local native species (link just above for more on this).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:17 AM

Concerning our diet in the RIV, as most of the 'curries' sold in Indian takaways/restaurants were invented in this country can we plant cumin, curry leaves, chili, ginger, etc? O and how about a paddy field? I saied for 10 years on Indian crewed ships and I can tell you that their curries bore v. little resembance to our 'shop' versions. Any news about the spagettiharvest?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:36 AM

"can we plant cumin, curry leaves, chili, ginger, etc?"

I already grow garlic, chilies, coriander, fenugreek (methi), lemongrass and many other herbs. I often wondered if rice would grow in this country.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 09:12 AM

...fine - but excluding veggies from the native-flora for native-fauna rule does need some qualification: in some cases, fair-trade may be better than going too far with our steps to grow veggies from other lands; e.g., do we want our RIV surrounded by glass/PVC constructions..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:00 AM

"RI villagers may listen to Americans perform their rock - but not perform it, nor support, by way of recordings held, other English folk so doing."

Sorry I've been absent, but as soon as I read this I went off to listen to my Tom Waits albums and work out some accompaniments on my Irish Bouzouki, whistle and the shakey egg program on my iPhone.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 10:06 AM

What was that? I was too busy erecting all these polytunnels in my garden.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:04 PM

Appearing tonight at the Proms should be an English Cittern Orchestra - NOT the Ukulele Orchestra of GB.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:16 PM

WAV - I've seen the Ukulele Orchestra of GB - and they are absolutely fabulous. The day good music is subordinated to some stupid kind of numbingly stupid and pointless orthodoxy is the day we all give up the musical ghost. Get a re-imagined life.:-)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:34 PM

The ukulele is Hawaiian, and what if an English cittern orchestra could be "absolutely fabulous", Will?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:55 PM

Ukulele is a Hawaiian name for a Portuguese instrument rather than an instrument from their own good culture.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 01:56 PM

"an English cittern orchestra could be "absolutely fabulous","
- WalkaboutsVerse
Sorry, sunshine, boring! Your vision of an ideal England (read a model England)isn't mine, and never ever will be.

Actually all this reminds me of those model villages set up by the local lord of the manor, for well behaved citizens, nice Anglo-Saxon Protestant types, where everything is provided for you, the shop, the pub, the church, and all worked, directly or indirectly, for the lord of the manor, (they all vote the same way as well, where the sun never sets on The Empire.

At least Ealing's vision of England had abit of grit to it

Stand and be Counted
Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:18 PM

For what it's worth, I hate imperialism, Olivia.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:23 PM

Please don't infer (using my first name) that we are friends, we're not.
and one small thing (For what it's worth, I hate imperialism,)
I don't believe you.

Stand and Be Counted

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:46 PM

"for well behaved citizens, nice Anglo-Saxon Protestant types, where everything is provided for you, the shop, the pub, the church, and all worked, directly or indirectly, for the lord of the manor,"

WHAT! I think you'll find that absolutely none of that applies in the RIV we (apart from WAV) have been creating!This village has been well and truly 'levelled' and is....well, eccentric, to say the least. Why not drop round for a few bottles and a couple of spliffs - I'll invite some of the neighbours?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 02:50 PM

I was merely commenting on WAV's visions of England, not this particular thread, which is eccentric, to say the least. I have to admit that I am not of the rural frame of mind, having lived in urban centres all my life, but for those who like it, go for it.

Olivia Beak (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Aug 09 - 06:17 PM

what if an English cittern orchestra could be "absolutely fabulous", Will?

Well, you see, this is the difference between you, David, and most of the 'Catters. If an "English cittern" orchestra, as you call it, sounded better than any other particular instrumental combination, then I'd support it on purely musical grounds. You, on the other hand, would support it on purely ideological grounds - regardless of musical quality - i.e. just because it fitted your idea of "Englishness". Big difference. Music matters more than ideology any day.

Anyway, I've bought up the 2 small cottages and I'm in the process of knocking them into one. I'm including a stonking great recording studio filled with all sorts of good gear, by the way.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 03:00 AM

The UKULELE will he the greater epitome of ENGLAND that the CITTERN ever could be - especially the non-existent Barbour Shop Citterns as dreamed of by our Hapless Repatriate.

Two names of utter and quintessential Englishness almost synonymous with the Ukulele : George Formby and Vivian Stanshall.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 04:32 AM

...or maybe a mead, O.B. (Ms)..?
To Will and Sean: George surely could have played his repertoire on an English cittern - thereby helping maintain an English tradition. I saw a documentary a few weeks ago where a native Hawaiian was acting as tour guide for a TV presenter and crew; while leading the walk he was nonchalantly, but impressively. playing a ukulele - thereby helping maintain an Hawaiian tradition.

And, accordingly, if you'll pardon the pun, overall, I think the follow is a good endeavour...

Poem 32 of 230: THE POLYNESIAN CULTURAL CENTRE

North, on the warm island of Oahu
    There's a really good place to see:
The Polynesian Cultural Centre -
    A centre linked by Christianity;
It's run by a broad-minded Christian group,
    Championing cultures while they preach.
I talked to a few of the kind members,
    And here's an abstract of their speech:

The employees are all uni. students,
    Labouring for their study and board;
They come from many Pacific islands,
    And are all believers in their Lord;
They are studying for varied degrees,
    And working at a number of jobs;
Some work as cultural entertainers,
    While others serve the tourist mobs.

I walked around for more than half a day,
    Then went to a skilled stage-show at night.
By day, the different island nations
    Do shows at their own cultural site;
There's good Tahitian cooking to be tried,
    Tamure dancing and hula, too.
Plus, at night, dramatic fire-walking,
    Drums and song, to name you but a few.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 04:38 AM

"nice Anglo-Saxon Protestant types"

No offence, but feck right off.

I'm an Anglo-Celtic-Huguenot Pagan Marxist Republican Brummie Digger. As for Empire - it was all a capitalist sham, any idiot can see that.

Get it right.

George Harrison was a big fan up the Uke.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 05:02 AM

"I'm including a stonking great recording studio filled with all sorts of good gear"

Nice one, Will. Whipstaff will be booking a session.

Just a word to the wise - don't dig too deep in the cottage gardens. There were some strange rumours about what old Jed Sly used to get up to in the middle of the night (taps side of nose with finger).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:01 AM

...Imelda, the beaut barmaid at the Mute Swan pub, mentioned, just quietly, old Jed had a secret fetish for wellies..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:13 AM

Ahhh, maybe, WAV, but you know the old phrase: "a pair of wellies without a sheep, is like a bed without a sleep".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 06:26 AM

Sorry WAV, I was forgetting, you're from Australia where human-ovine relationships are the norm. I'm teaching your grandmother to suck eggs here – or, rather, you grandfather to f**k sheep.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:02 AM

...on the contrary, I only knew of such deeds from Jessica Lange's character in Rob Roy, TL. But another thing I heard, on the quiet from Imelda, is that, so keen was Jed's fetish at one time, he even wanted to rename the RIV "Wellin Garden Village."

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:22 AM

Is 'beaut' Australian slang?

Or even 'beaut.'.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 08:26 AM

And isn't Imelda an Irish name? Surely that won't do...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:06 PM

"or maybe a mead, O.B. (Ms)..?
- WalkaboutsVerse
I only drink with friends, YOU don't even come close.

and Sugarfoot Jack, you missed the point, but after reading your rant, that's hardly surprising..oh god! and my dad has to share his Brummie heritage with the likes of you....

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:23 PM

"RI villagers may listen to Americans perform their rock - but not perform it, nor support, by way of recordings held, other English folk so doing."

What an interesting phrase. "RI villagers may ... not perform it". A fascinating insight into a thought process and a philosophy. Regardless of art, intuition, imagination, inclination, talent - "thou shalt not"...

One characteristic of a village - re-imagined or not - is that, ultimately, villagers are a law unto themselves and, not matter what the diktat, will do as they please. Anarchy of a very subtle sort reigns in villages, WAV - something that is utterly beyond your comprehension.

My recording studio is getting put together very efficiently indeed. I'm just preparing a notice to be nailed to the front door - a bit like Luther's 95 theses - which says: "No f*ck*ng citterns!"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 19 Aug 09 - 02:32 PM

Imelda is used predominantly in places like Italy and Spain. It is derived from Germanic origins, from the name Irmenhild.

Nope definitely not English....oh dear...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack out and about
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:03 AM

Didn't mean to offend Ollie Beak - it was meant in jest! Never mind, you can't be all bad if you're decended from a Brummie.

I forgot gypsy too.

Bostin!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:19 AM

"No f*ck*ng citterns!"

Will, I'd never have taken you for a citternist. OK, can I bring my 10-string, unison-tuned, short-neck bouzouki?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:54 AM

Bouzoukis always welcome. Not so sure about banjos and bodhrans - well, OK, then. (How could I exclude my own tenor banjo?)

Being computerised, my recording deck will have an infinite number of channels - bring all the instruments (except citterns) and musicians you can muster, and we'll have an extended jam session running over several CDs.

Actually, I'm doing a very similar thing to this on Sunday next - for my 65th birthday - when nearly all the musicians I know and play with at sessions and in the band will be meeting for a massive bash in my local. Such is village life. Music starts at 8pm, and I'm expecting a fair selection of guitars, fiddles, melodeons, concertinas, mandolins, bass, cajon, whistles, small pipes - all playing a lovely mix of traditional stuff, blues, ragtime, jazz and anything you fancy.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:11 AM

I'll bring my Irish bouzouki then. As I'm learning whistle I'll bring that too.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:17 AM

...no English flutes?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 04:30 AM

I think that should be a weekly event, Will.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 05:28 AM

It's actually monthly, on the 2nd Sunday of the month, but this one will be a bit special. Mind you, a birthday every month would be quite something - or would I get blase about it.

English flute? No such instrument...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 08:19 AM

...here, e.g., Will.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:02 AM

English flute:
The name used during the 18th century for the recorder in order to distinguish it from the transverse flute (orchestral), which was at that time called the German flute. There's somewhat of a difference between the recorder and the flute, so, please, WAV, give it a rest

need I say more.....?

Olivia Beak (Ms)- guitars electric and acoustic, mandocello.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:31 AM

LOL! Love the pronunciation guide - I've been wondering how to say "English flute" in the style of Metal Mickey's psychotic older brother for donkeys.

I'm looking forward to hearing a rendition of The Kid on the Mountain on WAV's English Flute when we have the RIV session in The Flailing Gibbon (Fridays)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 12:12 PM

...can't get mead there, Sugarfoot, so I'll pop in AFTER a visit to The Mute Swan.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 22 Aug 09 - 01:45 PM

Eh! Did someone poach the village fete's prize piglet??
One buggers off for a week and there's all sorts of village feuds going on!

Gotta catch up with the re-imagined omnibus edition...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:21 AM

Did someone poach the village fete's prize piglet?

I beginning to think WAV is the village fete's prize piglet; having broken out of his sty and escaped into various neighbouring threads where he's presently causing a lot of damage trying to infect the folk world with his vile racist virus. What could be worse than a fascist piglet drunk on the mead of his own self-righteousness going on the spree?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:42 AM

"Sorry WAV, I was forgetting, you're from Australia where human-ovine relationships are the norm. I'm teaching your grandmother to suck eggs here – or, rather, you grandfather to f**k sheep." (TL)...you have no problem with that S., but you have such a big problem with my calm polite criticism of our status quo that you resort to calling me a "fascist" and a "racist". I am, rather, an English repatriate, with a major in anthropology, who has enjoyed travelling through about 40 countries, and probably appreciates our world being multicultural as much as anyone on Earth.

"Eh! Did someone poach the village fete's prize piglet??
One buggers off for a week and there's all sorts of village feuds going on! Gotta catch up with the re-imagined omnibus edition..." (CS)...probably predominantly peripatetic pannage.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 06:20 AM

"Sorry WAV, I was forgetting, you're from Australia where human-ovine relationships are the norm."

Come on. WAV, it was just a bit of light-hearted stereotyping. As a Yorkshire person, it's one that I often get thrown at me (I just catch it an chuck it back) :)

BTW, I can introduce you to some very attractive Swaledale's I know.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 07:04 AM

Sorry WAV, I was forgetting, you're from Australia where human-ovine relationships are the norm. I'm teaching your grandmother to suck eggs here – or, rather, you grandfather to f**k sheep (TL) ...you have no problem with that S., but you have such a big problem with my calm polite criticism of our status quo that you resort to calling me a "fascist" and a "racist". I am, rather, an English repatriate, with a major in anthropology, who has enjoyed travelling through about 40 countries, and probably appreciates our world being multicultural as much as anyone on Earth.

I have no problem whatsoever with theleveller's quite reasonable response to your vile stance, WAV. As for you being calm and polite - who cares? Your ideas are as EVIL as they are just plain WRONG and if anyone doubts this they might peruse the Fascist and Racist tracts you maintain on-line in the form of your WAV MESSAGES.

No one but a Fascist and a Racist would ever write such things, let alone publish and promote them. Indeed, reading through all your other WAV MESSAGES it soon becomes evident that your only interest in folk music is to front your Fascist & Racist concepts of Culture. I'm not talking Xenophobia here, but a deep festering hatred of anything that doesn't comply with your frighteningly narrow misgivings and misunderstandings that you pass off as a good way forward for humanity.

Fascism is the suppression of individual liberty to one absolute law in the name of a Greater National & Cultural well-being with any amount of bogus Volkishness invariably thrown in for good measure. This is precisely what you believe. You have no interest in the glorious realities of what people are doing, only what they should be doing according to your bizarre alien misconception of what constitutes English Culture. This is Fascism, WAV - you are Fascist.

You are also racist because your concept of English Culture refuses to take into account the multiplicity of ethnicities that constitute that culture or yet the multiplicity of influences on which that culture is founded. You are racist because you continue to publish and promote dangerously inflammatory lies (see WAV MESSAGES) founded on your misgivings and misunderstandings regarding immigration and cultural process.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 07:51 AM

S: it is you not I who resorted to calling a recorder, made in Japan, an "Engrish frute," and told us you have friends who make "racist jokes" at the pub. Among my Messages (above, times 3) and all else I've published, you will NOT find suchlike.

And clearly the problem with such "light-hearted stereotyping" (TL) is that there are those, like S., who lack formal education but are ultra-competitive and hate someone disagreeing with their world view; i.e., given an inch, he will take a mile.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 08:22 AM

Just out of hospital (minor heart attack) where I spent some time reading a book which had a few comments relevant to the latest developments on this thread.

Bartok on folk music transgressing national boundaries

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Sedayne (Astray) (S O'P)
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 09:18 AM

who lack formal education

All I lack is a degree, WAV - I made it into Durham University to do a single honours Language & Linguistics degree but had to withdraw on account of serious illness. This you know, yet you still drag it up. We discuss here as equals, regardless of academic achievement; it is the wit, nous or otherwise of the individual that drives the discussion, not how many fork-lift certificates they've got. And for all your qualifications in Anthropology you haven't demonstrated any understanding of the subject whatsoever.

but are ultra-competitive and hate someone disagreeing with their world view; i.e., given an inch, he will take a mile.

My world-view is simply that every single one of us is entitled to the freedoms they were born to without their personal and cultural liberty being regulated by a higher authority - or in in your case would be higher authority - in the name of knowing what is best for them. Your world-view is a Fascist Absolutism that opposes such Cultural Realities and Individual Freedoms - and this world-view I oppose because you choose to publish and promote it. That your world-view is also founded on a complete lack of understanding of (and a total unwillingness to learn about) the things you write about is also cause for concern - forklift / anthropology qualifications notwithstanding.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 02:32 PM

PS - Hope you're well soon, Jack!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 03:59 PM

"that there are those, like S., who lack formal education "

Now that really fucks me off WAV.Our fuckwit UKIP MEP, Godfrey Bloom, who lives in my village, wrote to the parish council about the attitude of "those people who live the other side of the tracks who do not have the benefit of a formal education....". This is the twat who thinks that women should stay at home and clean behind the fridge and that any organisation that employs women of child-bearing age is an idiot.

Yes, we are the people who live the wrong side of the tracks. As for formal education, well mine had been more autodidactic but mrsleveller has an first degree, an MA and a PGCE. She works for the Workers Education Association providing free courses for people who want to better themselves educationally.I may also point out that my grandfather, who left school at the age of 12, was the most well-read and intelligent person I have ever met and, despite never having any personal ambition, spent all his life working for the community and became chairman of the council, an early member of the Labour Party, a JP, a churchwarden, and sat on innumerable commitees. He never made a buck and ended his life in an almshouse but, even today, 20 years after his death at the age of 94, people speak of him with respect and affection.

So, basically, take your formal education and stick it up your arse.

Jack, hope the minor heart attack is not more than a minor inconvenience and the precursor to a long and healthy life.

Right, back to the second bottle of half-price Australian Merlot (made, no doubt, WAV, by sweaty feet of the descendants of British convicts who had no educatiuon whatsoever....mmmmmm!)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:12 PM

"Swaledale's"

Ooops! Actually, non-possessive Swaledales. I hate jealous sheep.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 04:18 PM

"you still drag it up" (S.)... I only very occasionally do so, in defence, when you go too far in your repeated false accusations, rather than sticking to what I've actually posted.

I often post on threads where I disagree with the argument, but, unlike you sometimes, that's what I always focus on - NOT name calling.

Fascism opposes democracy and socialism/communism; I am for democracy and, in a democratic way, have often criticized capitalism. It's quite likely you are playing on the fact that there has recently been anti-fascist threads (you used to repeatedly use "racism"), and this time you have even added "Absolutism".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Aug 09 - 05:20 PM

I only very occasionally do so, in defence,

You lash out with personal insults, rather than answer the points that have been raised. By your own writ (WAV MESSAGES) you are both a Fascist and a Racist - if you weren't, you wouldn't have written what you have, let alone persist in promoting it.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 04:36 AM

It is you, S., not I who called a recorder made in Japan an "Engrish frute" and said he has friends who tell "racist jokes" at the pub. And it is I not you who has enjoyed travelling, on a shoe-string, through about 40 countries, and who achieved distinctions for anthropology at university.

If you keep posting those false and defamatory remarks, I have to defend myself with such facts. Try sticking to the argument.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 04:49 AM

Proof by assertion is a logical fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction. Sometimes this may be repeated until challenges dry up, at which point it is asserted as fact due to its not being contradicted (argumentum ad nauseam). In other cases its repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth

Thanks Wiki

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 05:42 AM

It is you, S., not I who called a recorder made in Japan an "Engrish frute"

It was the saintly Don Firth who coined that one, WAV - in respect of the supreme irony of you calling your mass-produced Japanese-made plastic recorder an English Flute. Engrish is a linguistic phenomenon which celebrates the grammatical incongruities consequent upon Japanese attempts at translating their language into English. There are several books on the subject (at least one of which I own) and websites too, such as http://www.engrish.com/.   

and said he has friends who tell "racist jokes" at the pub.

If people let slip a few less-than PC remarks down at my local (see HERE for a recent example - and be sure pay special attention to my post of 10 Aug 09 - 10:20 AM) then that's by way of human frailty and colloquial waywardness. They don't go out of their way to publish and promote a vile racist ideology as you do. Far worse than any racist joke I've ever heard: England was a more English place 50 years ago. You said that, WAV - even worse, you believe it to be true.

And it is I not you who has enjoyed travelling, on a shoe-string, through about 40 countries

They say travel broadens the mind - so where did we go wrong with you I wonder?

and who achieved distinctions for anthropology at university.

And yet you persist in an anti-anthropological approach to cultural process by insisting human culture is regulated by a higher authority which you alone are privy to. Anthropology is the study and understanding of human culture, not the dictation and suppression of it. In all your posts here you would dictate and suppress the way people do things; in your published work likewise. What the hell school of anthropology is this? One that insists on mass compliance to an absolute cultural law along the lines of racial segregation and regulation... Now what what does that remind you of I wonder?

If you keep posting those false and defamatory remarks, I have to defend myself with such facts.

Nothing false in what I say, WAV as anyone reading your insane MESSAGES would conclude. Like I say, only a Racist and a Fascist would write such things; only a Racist and a Fascist would relentlessly promote them as a good way forward for humanity.

I note you never answer the points that are raised against you. You write English culture is taking a hammering and when people lose their culture society suffers, but you never explain how, or why, you just trot it out as being a self-evident absolute, which of course it isn't. So tell us, WAV - how is English culture taking a hammering? And in what way is society suffering as a result? What qualifies you to make such inhumane remarks, let alone publish them? And do you ever worry that if some racist thug read such inflammatory words they might then go out and act upon them? What then, WAV? You promote and advocate human suffering in the name of a highly idiosyncratic set of racially divisive ideological absolutes and yet you flinch at being called a Fascist and a Racist.

Try sticking to the argument.

Sorry, WAV - this is the argument.

The re-Imagined Village is a place where you might purge yourself of your absurd and alien misconceptions of English Culture and actually learn about the way things really are, rather than the way you want them to be. Think of it as purgatory - a place to listen and learn, to be cleansed of your vile conclusions which are in any case wholly and completely WRONG.

But please note: not once have I insulted you personally - on the contrary, I've supported you when things have turned personal on other threads. I respect you but question your ideology. Now, if you can, please answer the above points without resorting to further personal insults.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 06:04 AM

"So tell us, WAV - how is English culture taking a hammering?" (S)...off the top of my head - traditional Christmas celebrations being curtailed, as they may offend some of the ethnic groups now living in England. English country dancing and folk songs either no longer being taught at English schools or certainly far less than they were say half way through last century.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 06:09 AM

S O'P; that's one of the best posts I've seen on here. Bravo! (from one who has just been called 'stupid' by WAV on the Ashes thread.)
Tim

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 06:26 AM

off the top of my head - traditional Christmas celebrations being curtailed, as they may offend some of the ethnic groups now living in England.

Er - that's just a myth, WAV; if you can prove otherwise, please give evidence. And supposing it was true, are not those Ethnic Groups Now Living in England just as representative of an actual English Culture as the Imported Christmas Celebrations supposedly being suppressed for fear of causing offence? Or would you apply racist divisions on what actually constitutes English Culture? Obviously you do, otherwise you would not have written what you have. Thus do I call you a Racist. Your post here only serves to confirm that.

English country dancing and folk songs either no longer being taught at English schools or certainly far less than they were say half way through last century.

All the English Country Folk Dance & Song Shit taught in schools was tenth-rate revivalist Bowdlerised bourgeois bullshit anyway. English Culture - and Education - is better off without it.

So how are we suffering, WAV? Do tell!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 06:27 AM

That was post 666 by the way...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 06:50 AM

WAV; almost all of our 'traditional' Christmas celebrations are imported anyway. Starters; Turkey (USA) Christmas trees (Germany) Christianity (the Middle East).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 06:50 AM

"English country dancing and folk songs either no longer being taught at English schools or certainly far less than they were say half way through last century."

In what way, are immigrants to blame for the apathy and general disinterest of the English towards their own folk heritage, or indeed for what we choose to keep on the curriculum?

If anything I would suggest that many immigrant groups *lead by example* in terms of their maintenance within British culture of their own styles of music, song and dance. Take the much hated Paddies back in the fifties, of whom I'm descended (My cousin now runs an Irish dancing school in London): in the face of immense hostility ("a hammering"?) to their culture, they successfully maintained it, until ironically it has now been warmly embraced by an English generally apathetic to their own traditions.

If anything I suspect the recent revival of native interest in traditional English song and custom, has actually been born from English interest in equivalent Irish traditions.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 07:59 AM

the apathy and general disinterest of the English towards their own folk heritage

This is a bit of a moot point here, methinks. What is our own folk heritage? If it's that which takes place in the bucolic hinterlands once dreamed of by the well-to-do Ladies & Gentlemen of the EFDSS then it's hardly the wonder there is a complete disinterest in it on the part of the English people in general - and me in particular! Tailored for bourgeois sensibilities, it is a revivalist fantasy of something that barely made it into the 20th Century, only to be revived by way of a romantic volkish revisionist re-invention that is precisely the same recurring nightmare we find in WAV's wanklore and other even less savoury right-wing manifestos.

There is no English Folk Heritage other than that imagined by The Revival, and subsequently tailored for its disparate needs. In education it was a joke (recorders likewise); to the vast majority of the English people it is still a joke, but at least we no longer have to suffer its indignities at school. This isn't due to apathy on the part of the English people, it is simply because the English people have a living culture of their own, one that has been completely overlooked and, to a certain extent, disparaged by the Folk Revival. Call it English Popular Culture - which is alive and well - and you'll find it everywhere; in every county, in every city, every town, every village, every street and every home - we each and every one of us carry it in our hearts; a wondrous diversity inclusive of all ethnicities, derivations, origins and individuals - Folkies included!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 10:49 AM

Re"English culture. To quote the late Peter Bellamy " Ewan McCall spent all his life trying tp give 'folk music' back to THE PEOPLE, but THWE PEOPLE said "'sod off' we'd rather have Tom Jones!".
'nuff said.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 11:20 AM

I've had all these arguments with you before, David, and the sad thing is that you simply trot out the same stuff from your own writings time after time - feeding, in fact, on your self-penned inanities.

Here's a snapshot of English culture - 2009-style - from my 65th birthday bash in my local last night:

We had 12 musicians, including myself: (1) fiddle/flute/guitar/vocal (2) hammered dulcimer/vocal (3) small pipes/whistles/serpent (3) anglo concertinas (4) cajon (5) guitar/mandolin/vocal (6) vocal (7) keyboard (8) recorder (9) mandolin/fiddle (10) electric bass (11) keyboard (12) guitar/tenor guitar/mandolin/vocal.

The music ranged from French mazurkas, various English/Irish/Scottish jigs, reels, hornpipes, blues, 1920s & 30s songs, jazz, one Paul Simon song, polkas, Hank Williams, the Scissor Sisters and much besides. The pub was packed, with several of the guests dancing their socks off at the back of the pub and joining in the choruses of what they knew. A great time was had by all, and the atmosphere was electric.

That's English culture - with every item being performed with love and affection by those whose turn it was - and everyone got at least 3 bites of the cherry - and everyone joining in where appropriate and where possible. Why should any of this change because of the opinion of a mouldy fig who knows bugger all about any of it and can only see entertainment as a stratum of ideology - rather than just bloody good FUN?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 01:19 PM

"traditional Christmas celebrations being curtailed, as they may offend some of the ethnic groups now living in England" (me)...given your response to this S., have you genuinely not heard news and current affairs debate on this matter over the last few years, or are you just being ultra-competitive to the point of recalcitrance?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 01:53 PM

David, if you actually look at the facts of the matter - and not the urban myth - there have actually been no instances of Christmas celebrations being curtailed. None. If you can find factual evidence - post it here.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 01:54 PM

Sorry none of the major components of Christmas are even remotely English (or British for that matter). Mind you the English language itself in made up og god knows how many different languges.

WAV's view of England, if it's not English it doesn't belong in England,( one shouldn't play with it, sing it, or have anything to do with it) , whoops there goes alot of so-called "English traditions" As many now know, I'm not English, does this mean I need to go back where I came from WAV, is this what you're saying? I know that one your favoutite sayings is, "I love the world being multi-cultural, and England being part of that world". Let me add that YOU, WAV don't want any the world's multiculturalism in England, there's a name for that sort of attitude, but I can't quite remember what that name is.......

CHarlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 02:41 PM

ultra-competitive to the point of recalcitrance

re·cal·ci·trant (r-kls-trnt)
adj.
Marked by stubborn resistance to and defiance of authority or guidance. See Synonyms at unruly. Wilfully disobedient [Latin re-[again] + calcitrare to kick]
n.
A recalcitrant person.
        1. recalcitrant - stubbornly resistant to authority or control; "a fractious animal that would not submit to the harness"; "a refractory child" fractious, refractory, disobedient - not obeying or complying with commands of those in authority; "disobedient children"
        2. recalcitrant - marked by stubborn resistance to authority; "the University suspended the most recalcitrant demonstrators" defiant, non-compliant - boldly resisting authority or an opposing force; "brought up to be aggressive and defiant"; "a defiant attitude"

etc.

*

WAV - in what possible sense of the word am I on the point of recalcitrance? What authority am I defying here? Who am I disobeying? I know you think you're the supreme dictator of Heaven and Earth but that's only in your own head - it isn't real.

As for ultra-competitive - not in the slightest, dear boy. What I want is for you to wise up to the glorious realities of English Culture and ditch the accumulated bullshit. I want you to enjoy your English citizenship and your repatriation; I want you to become one of us, to assimilate and to become assimilated. You're not going to do that by propagating divisive urban-mythology and tabloid lies about the suppression of our so-called Xmas Traditions (which aren't ours anyway) so as not to offend our ethnic minorities (who are ours in every sense of the word).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 02:59 PM

"As for ultra-competitive - not in the slightest, dear boy." (S)...calling someone who worked hard for his 4 technical certificates and a degree in humanities, found his way, on a shoe-string, through about 40 countries, taught himself to read and write (at least, in simple letter-notation, above) music, placed in some folk-festival comps, and managed to play A-grade junior tennis and football having been born with a club-foot "dear boy" - delusion.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 03:14 PM

You're a snob, WAV, as snob as only a colonial can be. I've seen it before, someone trying to be more English than the English themselves.

Listen sunshine, and listen well, I for one couldn't give a rat's rear end about what qualifications you've got nor from whence they came, I couldn't care less how many countries you've visited (as opposed to actual explored, but that's another question for another day), sports, been there done that, ad ohhh look...plying the disabled card are we and how we triumphed over it...well....my late mother was in a wheelchair (a paraplegic) for most of her life, and she and we travelled, we played sports, and , you know what, she never had to justify what she did or didn't do because of or in spite of being in a wheelchair. I can't be bothered addressing the rest of your outrageous posting so I'll simply say this...

YOU are not, in anyway, special, so get over yourself!

Charlotte Olivia Roberstson (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 03:15 PM

Sorry none of the major components of Christmas are even remotely English (or British for that matter).

Christmas cards. Invented in England in 1843, the same year as the fax machine.

Surely for most people that's the major component of Christmas?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 03:24 PM

Christmas cards, THE major component....well whatever you say, (glad you feel you can speak for the majority) the fax machine is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 03:43 PM

"dear boy" - delusion.

No. Dear Boy - a very English term of friendship as found in a certain sort of literature (Jeeves and Wooster etc.) along with Old Boy, Old Fruit, etc. Congrats on the achievements, WAV - but none of it qualifies you to pontificate upon matters you know nothing about.

Pip, pip!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 04:44 PM

Beak - as you asked me not to call you by your first name (which I RESPECTED), I am NOT your "sunshine".

How about telling me to leave England for another Walkabout, S - is that a "very English" thing, too?...but "very English" - there's hope there, though...you may soon trade in that Welsh crwth of yours for an English cittern and a starling feather!...but then Beak may not be your "sunshine," either.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 04:50 PM

Did someone mention the crwth? I know I didn't
as I already said

YOU are not, in anyway, special, so get over yourself!

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Aug 09 - 06:11 PM

How about telling me to leave England for another Walkabout, S - is that a "very English" thing, too?

No indeed - stick around, old fruit - only if you do, kindly do so with the open mind of the trained anthropologist; look, listen and (hopefully) learn.

...but "very English" - there's hope there, though...

There is hope for us all, WAV - even for the recalcitrant buffoon you portray yourself as in your writings. Were you to ony but humble yourself long enough to partake of the cultural wonders of the country in which you have chosen as your home - and what wonders they are! Infinite wonders which this thread has barely touched upon!

you may soon trade in that Welsh crwth of yours for an English cittern and a starling feather!..

Never presume to tell another person what they should, or indeed should not, be playing - you oppress my individual freedom by doing so. FYI, my Welsh Crwth is actually a hypothetical Medieval Northern-European bowed-lyre built for me, circa 1987, by a Canadian master harp-builder based in Inverness. It may be one-of-a-kind but it nevertheless exists - unlike your English Cittern which is a figment of your malnourished imagination, starling feathers and all. In our Fylde sets this year Rapunzel & I will be featuring several Traditional English Folk Songs with accompaniments arranged for 5-string banjo & crwth.

On watching Bell Bottom George just now, which we recorded earlier. A rare slab of Vintage Englishness, ukulele & all, and some choice old footage of Fleetwood to boot!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 03:37 AM

"your English Cittern which is a figment of yuour malnourished imagination, starling feathers and all." (S)..."starling feathers" was from your good-self, in a post not far above.

"A rare slab of Vintage Englishness, ukulele & all" (S)...isn't that a tad disrespectful of Hawaiians?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 03:48 AM

WAV,since when has George Formby been Hawaiian? Except for the concertina [& even that is debatable] I can't think of any instrument that is an English invention, can you? 'Cause if you can 'you're a better man than I am etc'.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 04:28 AM

Ron: If George Formby knew better he would have been accompanying himself on an English cittern not an Hawaiian ukulele.

"INSTRUMENTS OF (OR CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH) ENGLAND
Northumbrian Bagpipes (bellows blown), Leicestershire Bagpipes (mouth blown); English Concertina, Anglo Concertina, Duet Concertina (and important developments to – if not inventions of – other key-boards, such as piano and organ, have also occurred in England); Dital Harp/Harp-Lute, English Cittern; English Flageolet, Penny Whistle, Recorder/English Flute, Pipe and Tabor (old Morris accompaniment),
the Stylophone (a recent one), Brass, Bells (to some, England's national instrument), as well as Spoons.
(Footnote: during the Athens Olympics ceremonies, the Greeks, pleasingly, presented their bouzoukis: I wonder how-many of the above instruments - and dances - will be shown at the London Olympics..?)" (from here).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 04:43 AM

"starling feathers" was from your good-self, in a post not far above.

Sorry, old bean - I'm afraid the post to which you refer was a rather fanciful spoof on my part, as ought to be obvious from the notion of musicians (or otherwise) sticking the pointy ends of starling feathers underneath their fingernails. For those who missed it: 18 Aug 09 - 04:19 AM. I must also point out that whilst this tradition most certainly does not survive in the Lancastrian towns I mentioned, the Barber Shop Cittern you speak of was indeed the ukulele of its day with a re-entrant tuning to facilitate the playing of chordal accompaniments to the songs of the day, some of which would have been, undoubtedly traditional. Hitherto an anathema in Wavlore (as you made quite clear in your Chords in Folk? thread of last year) you now seem to be telling us that chords are not only fine by you, but indeed part of Our Own Good Folk Traditional Culture. What gives?

isn't that a tad disrespectful of Hawaiians?

Didn't notice any Hawaiians in it actually - only a couple of dodgy Germans, which is par for the course in English films of the period. For more see Bell Bottom George. Otherwise you might like to read the WIKI entry for Ukulele in which we learn that the Ukulele is a 19th Century interpretation of an instrument brought to Hawaii by Portuguese immigrants which then spread in popularity into America, and thence internationally. I have a Ukulele instruction book from 1920 published in California at a time when Ukuleles were the fashion with Bright Young Things and Vaudevillian Entertainers on both sides of the pond. The instrument that George Formby plays is, in fact, a Banjo Ukulele, an American invention by Keech, circa 1920, which became popular on account of it having a greater dynamic range than than the Ukulele. For more on this see Dennis Tailor's Banjo Ukulele site.

This potted history gives testimony to the sort of Cultural Process which is likely to make you itch rather as it gives the lie to your Racist concept of Cultural Ingenuity which, as a trained Anthropologist, you must know is a complete fallacy anyway. Things move, cross-pollinate, they come, they go, they thrive or they die. Personally I find it quite fascinating. No doubt you would like to have all Cultural Process Regulated by a Stronger Fascist UN, in which case the Portuguese would have never brought their small guitars to Hawaii in the first place.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:10 AM

If George Formby knew better he would have been accompanying himself on an English cittern not an Hawaiian ukulele.

WAV - this has to be the most idiotic statement of yours yet, not to mention insulting to an entire tradition of English Music which still thrives to this day. Still, it makes a sort of sense for one obsessed with such a simple minded racist world-view, founded as it is on a glorification of ignorance, misinformation and downright rudeness.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:53 AM

your Racist concept of Cultural Ingenuity

Should be Cultural Indegeniety.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:56 AM

I included "imagination" in your quote re. feather plectrums S; and, from memory, in the "Chords in folk" thread, doubling the melody with a cittern was mentioned.

You are all-over-the-place, again S - e.g., I HAVE argued here on Mudcat for a stronger MORE-DEMOCRATIC UN. Do you ever consider trying again to get a degree of some DISCIPLINE, instead of taking lazy cheap-shots at me?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:11 AM

Why on Earth is your degree of such importance to you WAV. I have met Sean, but only on a couple of occasions; I have never met you. So I judge you both on your postings. Sean is much better educated than you are, better read, and capable of a level of analytical thought that you could only dream of.

He doesn't need me to defend him, but I write as a disinterested observer (with a degree, several diplomas, several memberships of professional bodies, a couple of Fellowships, published author, professional musician...but so what - if my reasoning didn't hold water, all these would be as valueless as your degree and four tecnical certificates).

Regards Stu

PS hope you don't mind Sean

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:19 AM

In other words, Stu, you don't like positive English, Scottish, etc., nationalism.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:21 AM

WAV, I take note of your list of "English" instruments, and yes you are right about one the stylaphone, however can you in all honesty state that any of the others were invented in England [concertina excepted]? As a version of bag pipes certainly the Northumbrian did evolve here, but you could add Cornish, single & double chanters, Westmorland, Lancashire, Herefordshire etc but the point is bagpipes were not invented in tis country, nor was the recorder.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:25 AM

I have a Ukulele instruction book from 1920 published in California at a time when Ukuleles were the fashion with Bright Young Things and Vaudevillian Entertainers on both sides of the pond.

Look up Janet Klein on YouTube for someone who's done a brilliant job of recreating the music of this era. I think she's one of the best early music performers around. I'd love to see her live.


The instrument that George Formby plays is, in fact, a Banjo Ukulele, an American invention by Keech, circa 1920, which became popular on account of it having a greater dynamic range than than the Ukulele.

Formby played both that and the wooden-body sort. I'm not sure the top-end wooden-body ones are such a good idea any more, koa wood is probably being harvested unsustainably to make them.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:29 AM

Ron - I posted "Instruments of (OR CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH) England".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:36 AM

WAV, fair enough, you did say that, so can you add electric guitar,Wurlitzer organ, bass guitar and full drum kit with cymbals, as all closely associated with England [& English music].

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:40 AM

...no they are mostly "INSTRUMENTS OF (OR CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH) AMERICA", Ron. If we are not American we should not Americanise but, rather, love our world being multicultural.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:30 AM

I've just spent the morning playing the tune "Neil Gow's Lament For His Second Wife" on my violin, and playing the chords for it on my guitar.

Oh fuck - just realised that I'm an Englishman and that I shouldn't be playing a beautiful Scottish melody or playing instruments that aren't English. Oh well, another avenue of fun closed to me.

Hey - hang on, though. I do have g-g-ggrandparents from Kinross in Scotland, and others from County Kildare in Ireland, plus some Dutch blood which came to Norfolk in the 16th century - and god knows what else from several hundred years before that - so it might be all right after all! Hurray!

See, WAV, how stupid you look with your nonsensical pronouncements as to what musicians should or shouldn't do?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:31 AM

And I claim 700!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 07:47 AM

Will, in my book, you are English and, as such, should enjoy, as I do, Scots playing their Scottish tunes, plus, as you are also a musician, playing English ones yourself - perhaps to be enjoyed by others, including Scots...

"There are more than enough good English songs, tunes and dances
(plus instruments) for anyone's lifetime – let's appreciate others but perform our own!" (here).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:03 AM

let's appreciate others but perform our own

Why? No sense in this whatever. You're flogging a dead horse, cock. Give it a rest.

Over and out.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:08 AM

"Why?" Will - to do our bit in keeping our world nice and multicultural.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:43 AM

I've just spent the morning playing the tune "Neil Gow's Lament For His Second Wife" on my violin, and playing the chords for it on my guitar.

Oh fuck - just realised that I'm an Englishman and that I shouldn't be playing a beautiful Scottish melody

It's basically Irish. Gow nicked the idea from an Irish song, "Kitty Tyrrell". Bizarrely, the Gows published the lament for the first time in the same collection as its original, so anybody playing through the book could see the connection. (They did the same thing with at least one other tune).

There's very little point in debating with someone so mentally incapable he thinks any instrument with "English" in its name must ipso facto *be* essentially English. For sure the recorder isn't in its place of origin - it seem to have been invented in the Ukraine or the Balkans, and was played all over Europe before we have any record of it in Britain. (The earliest mention of it in English is from Scotland). But because a handful of people called it English for a few years nearly 300 years ago, WAV ties the Union Jack to it and salutes. Why on earth would anybody want to treat the assertions of such a crippled intellect as something to refute? They're just pathology samples. He's probably got some variant of Asperger's syndrome - his brain runs on mechanical routines which nobody can change into genuine thought by any external input. He's locked in that boxful of fatuous stereotypes until he dies.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:49 AM

"WAV ties the Union Jack to it and salutes." (Jack)...ridiculous - I try to be a positive English, NOT British, nationalist; as is "crippled intellect", etc. - check the summary of my CV just above.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 08:59 AM

"He's locked in that boxful of fatuous stereotypes until he dies"

Sounds like a variation of the torture once practiced by the Zulus whereby a person was locked in a hut with a hungry jackal.

I like English instruments but play the ones that suit me best. So, I have an English cittern (Fylde), an Irish acoustic guitar (Lowden), an American electric guitar (Gibson) and mrsleveller plays a Yorkshire mandolin made by a Scot (Buchanan) and an English mandolin (Hathway) - plus other assorted whistles and recorders from god knows where.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:21 AM

I did suggest in a post some time ago that WAV was a computer program locked in a loop while attempting to prove that it was really a human being.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:24 AM

Just a thought WAV; let's suppose for a moment the world was as you would like it to be, and everyone only played the music from their own nation and culture; lets also suppose that you are in a position of authority in this world. What would you do if someone transgressed, and played music from somewhere else, perhaps on an instrument not on your list of approved ones? What would be the sanction or deterrent you would apply? I'm genuinely interested in how you would propose to ensure the survival of your monocultural idea in the face of human nature and free will.
This is a genuine question; I'd like to understand how you see the mechanics of your world view in operation.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:32 AM

Bet you get a cut and paste or a link to his website...

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:41 AM

Have you read Evans-Pritchard on the Zulu culture, TL?

And, we shouldn't answer a question with a question, Tim, but for something different from me, Stu, does anyone know how the 50s and 60s perform-your-own-culture folk-club organisers policed it?...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 09:50 AM

bass guitar

I'm currently giving very serious thought to buying an electric bass, which is the first real instrument I played before going acoustic some thirty-two years ago. Over the years, however, I've indulged my bass needs (as it were) in music shops - as I did in a Preston on my birthday a few days ago when I took my Zoom H4 along and recorded an improvisation I'm calling Mausoleum 22-8-09 which you can listen to at The Ha-Ha Space. My idea is accompany Traditional Ballads with such music, though maybe not in folk clubs...

I'd say the bass guitar is a good deal more relevant to English Popular Culture than the Cittern ever was, or is, or is ever likely to be. Certainly more relevant to me anyway, and the musicians who inspired me by making this instrument truly English - namely Colin Hodgkinson, Hugh Hopper, Richard Sinclair, and Chris Squire - not to mention one or two Europeans, such as Jannik Topp, Bernard Paganotti, Peter Fromader...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 10:02 AM

Ever read Brave New World WAV?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 10:11 AM

Quite right WAV, you shouldn't really answer a question with a question, unless of course you are trying to avoid answering. Yes, I do know how MacColl and others policed it; by having strict and inflexible rules and virtually ostracising anyone who failed to stay within those rules. It was on a very small scale, it didn't last, and proved so exclusive that there are those who argue that the policy did more harm than good to the cause of folk music.
Now back to the question, which wasn't about what MacColl did, it was about what you would do in your proposed world order. I say again; I'm genuinely interested in how you would go about this. You've always been very keen on regulating behaviour, usually citing the UN as your enforcing authority, but I'm not sure the UN would be keen on patrolling pubs late at night to check what sort of music is being played on which instruments, and I guess you would need some sort of local enforcement. How will this be funded? I assume you would need to legislate in some way; do you see playing the wrong music as a civil or criminal offence? What would the sanctions be? The evidence seems to be that regulations without sanctions are generally ignored completely, so I think you ought to be clear about what the penalties are for cultural infractions of the kind you seem so keen to stamp out.
Stu reckons that you will answer by referring to your website, but since I've read it all and not found any realistic and detailed answer, I think you probably need to come up with something new to answer these detailed questions. I look forward to your reply; I have a lot of other questions to follow.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 10:14 AM

I could add that it's not the hardware that makes things English, but the software of culture. The Northumbrian Pipes, for example, may have originated on foreign shores, but the actual musical vocabulary is unique to the region. The bass guitar may well have been invented in America, but it has found its place in many musics the world over, including England with the musicians I've mentioned and a lot more besides. The hardware of the Saxophone may well have been invented by a Belgian, but it was the African-American jazz musicians who give it a musical voice, which then goes out - England, Africa, Scandinavia, Scotland - and people find their own voices on the instrument, giving it the unique and diverse cultural flavours one finds in Jazz the world over.

Only WAV would suggest that only Belgians should play the Saxophone; only WAV would suggest that Jazz is an American music - purely because his only interest in music is as a means to justify his evil Fascist & Racist ideology. He refuses to take facts on board because to do would mean he'd have to change his embittered misanthropic world-view, the manifesto that is his wholly idiotic Life's Work, which to him operates as an absolute universal law. I don't know about a crippled intellect but it's certainly a twisted one - one that openly celebrates ignorance and refutes learning and ongoing development as being somehow contrary to the common good. Still, when you've got your head shoved as far up your own arse as WAV has, it must be difficult getting a clear view of things.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 10:40 AM

I'm currently giving very serious thought to buying an electric bass

Check out the Ashbory if you can find one - a tiny electric fretless, with weird fat translucent white plastic strings that look like roundworms. Lovely sound, highly portable, great value for money, and works great for music where you need microtones.

I could add that it's not the hardware that makes things English, but the software of culture. The Northumbrian Pipes, for example, may have originated on foreign shores, but the actual musical vocabulary is unique to the region [...]

I've found the Transylvanian double whistle (ikerfurulya) in A works great for Scottish pipe tunes. It's got a built-in drone.

The Highland pipes were an English invention, more than 500 years ago. Wouldn't be much music for them if the Scots hadn't seen the potential.

On Sunday I was playing mostly Scottish music in a session in Edinburgh. The instruments I used were the green plastic Yamaha recorder you can see in the photos on my website, a Turkish G clarinet, the ikerfurulya, G sopranino and G alto recorders made by Susato in North Carolina, an oud from Syria in classical Arabic tuning, and a washboard adapted by yours truly from one bought in Peebles a few years ago and which I think might possibly have been made in Scotland originally, using thimbles which might have been German or American. Nobody told me the result didn't sound Scottish.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 10:46 AM

We had a wonderful session in Dovedale with flute guitar mandolin bouzouki octave fiddle Anglo concertina melodeon recorder melodeon and bodhran. An eclectic mix

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 10:52 AM

"Have you read Evans-Pritchard on the Zulu culture, TL?"

No. I read The Washing of the Spears by Donald Morris and Shaka Zulu by E A Ritter while I was living in South Africa.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 11:10 AM

Hey Stu; I live in the next valley to Dovedale, in a real, not Imagined Village! Where was the session? Sounds like a good do.
Tim

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 11:18 AM

Alstonfield following a ceilidh on the Saturday for the First Responders. They've just boght a new response vehicle, and the ceilidh was to dedicate it.

Good fun.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 11:27 AM

a Turkish G clarinet

Drool. Is it a metal one? A metal G Clarinet is about #3 on my wish-list presently, though I'm more than happy with my 1920s wooden simple-system Bb, high-pitch, wide bore, and a chalumeau register to die for - in fact, rarely do I use it for anything else.

As far as bass guitars go I'm saving up my pennies for a Fender Jazz; on the recording there I'm playing a cheap copy (with very crackly pots) that the proprietor offered me for well under £100! Not bad at all really but when my dream comes true it has to be the real thing. So that's #2 on my wish list...

#1 - Pontic Lyra
#4 - Wooden Garklein
#5 - SM57

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 12:34 PM

Mandotim: I'll try an example - 2 years ago, Sean and I were the only ones with musical instruments of any kind at the Saturday night Durham Folk Party singaround (I did an intro. with my English flute; and he used some electronic drone and his crwth, I think); I got the feeling/took a hint if you like, and left my flute in my bag this year, such that it was 100% unaccompanied singing this year - and very enjoyable, too. The only problem was, I, at 43, was probably the youngest singer there - because this aspect of our cultural heritage is no longer given a fair go at our schools, etc. (and, by employing those who KNOW, that's where I'd focus).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 12:55 PM

a Turkish G clarinet
Drool. Is it a metal one? A metal G Clarinet is about #3 on my wish-list presently

Yep. I got it about ten years ago in Mugla, it's the second one I've had. You can now get them from on-line retailers in Turkey quite easily - google "sol klarnet". The quality control has improved so you are unlikely to get a lemon (not true when I first got into it, you really had to shop around in person). Mine seems to have the brand name "Kor" but I don't think that means a lot.

Fabulously flexible instrument, and fits into a whisky presentation tin. (So do most clarinets, but my Peter Eaton B flat is a squeeze).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 01:12 PM

The only problem was, I, at 43, was probably the youngest singer there - because this aspect of our cultural heritage is no longer given a fair go at our schools, etc. (and, by employing those who KNOW, that's where I'd focus).

At Durham you'll find a lot of very fine old singers who haven't been singing very long actually, largely thanks to Folkworks etc. They don't play instruments because they're not musicians! This has nothing to do with Tradition - so don't be fooled. I'm invariably a decade or more younger than any of them, but when it comes to Traditional Song I am a veritable veteran in their midst. This is the Second-Life Wave of New Folkies - fine singers all & long may they thrive!

So - nothing to do with any shortcomings in schools & education; the fact is that Traditional English Folk Song is healthier now than it ever has been. Celebrate this fact, WAV - don't think it should be otherwise because that way lies Cultural Fascism. FOLK is NOT our Cultural Heritage - it is a MINORITY REVIVALIST HOBBY. In the KNOW? Bollocks! Folk is down to the individuals who do it & love it & enjoy it for what it is.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 01:34 PM

The only problem was, I, at 43, was probably the youngest singer there - because this aspect of our cultural heritage is no longer given a fair go at our schools, etc.
At Durham you'll find a lot of very fine old singers who haven't been singing very long actually, largely thanks to Folkworks etc. They don't play instruments because they're not musicians! This has nothing to do with Tradition - so don't be fooled. I'm invariably a decade or more younger than any of them, but when it comes to Traditional Song I am a veritable veteran in their midst.

The book by Lajos Vargjas I was reading while recovering from my heart attack described a phenomenon I found rather surprising. He was talking about the transmission of Hungarian folksong in the years 1900-1950, mainly, but implied the same processes had been going on for several generations. This was an immensely vital song tradition with a vast corpus, so you'd expect it was passed on from old people to the young, right? Wrong. Almost all the songs in the repertoire were generationally specific. They were transmitted from one area to another, modified very fast, but between people of similar ages. Some kinds of song were considered inappropriate to sing if you were too young or too old for them, others drifted in or out of fashion. When you got old enough, you looked around for people a bit older and learned the songs appropriate for your age. These Hungarian peasants would have regarded the idea of teaching young-adult, middle-aged or old people's songs in schools as in appalling taste or just insane.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 01:44 PM

"Why?" Will - to do our bit in keeping our world nice and multicultural."
- WalkaboutsVerse

should have finished the quote off, WAV...but make sure that multiculturalism isn't in England doesn't infect the good old "English Tradition"...or something like that...
Well me and the band, using electric instriments and American guitars, rehearsed some music composed and played by Canadian musicians, now THAT'S what I call multiculturalism *LOL*

Oh and the vocals were handled in part by a Welshwoman..

Charlotte Olivia Robertson
(token N. American native)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 02:19 PM

That's fine, WAV, but it doesn't answer my question. You have frequently said in absolute terms that people of a particular culture should not perform music from another culture. If you had the power, how would you stop them? What measures would you take? Education merely encourages people to act in a particular way, with varying degrees of success. Your imagined world of each culture sticking rigidly to it's own mores and folkways implies that there must be a much greater degree of control. We have some fairly rigid rules in our culture, and these are generally enforced by legislation. Your approach is also rigid, and I would therefore like to know how you would enforce the rules. Oh and by the way; as demonstrated ad nauseam on this board, you don't play the flute, you play the recorder.
Now the academic bit; you have extrapolated from the attendance at a single event in one part of the UK, with no supporting evidence, and used this suspect data to make a wholly spurious link between the age profile in the room and the effect of a non-existent national education policy decision to 'explain' the decline of English folk music as a part of national culture. If I was peer reviewing this argument WAV, I'd be calling your alma mater in Australia and checking your alleged qualifications. I'd expect a better standard of academic rigour from my children when they were at secondary school. Surely you can see the huge holes in the logic?
Want to have another go at answering the question? I'm going out now to play music. It's American Bluegrass, and you can spend the evening condemning me if you like. I don't really care; I'll be playing to a pub full of urban English people, and chances are they'll be having a great time, not knowing how wrong they are to enjoy such alien music.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 02:39 PM

Jayzus... this village needs a scalding coffee enema.
The resident herbalist prescribes a totally illegal early morning Rave!
Please post random musical selections for top volume listening (bring your own drugs and sloe gin). x

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:22 PM

"FOLK is NOT our Cultural Heritage" (S)...how can you say that? Trad. folk songs HAVE been passed down, in England, over several centuries, by the oral tradition, before being recorded and notated by, often classically-trained, song collectors.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:31 PM

what Suibhne O'Piobaireachd actually said was....

FOLK is NOT our Cultural Heritage - it is a MINORITY REVIVALIST HOBBY. In the KNOW? Bollocks! Folk is down to the individuals who do it & love it & enjoy it for what it is,

WAV took one single line, right out of context "FOLK is NOT our Cultural Heritage" and once more got on his English Nationalist nonsense high horse.

There were two collectors who definitely had classical training, Ralph Vaughan Williams and Percy Grainger.

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:38 PM

This time I will copy/paste my words to save you going to another thread where S. has replied with the same point: Several people at the Durham Folk Party singarounds (which we have both enjoyed, S), including Jez Lowe, can play instruments but CHOOSE to sing unaccompanied. It's not a sin to agree with me on something.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:46 PM

Heh! No Rave yet then? Mmmm not very English is it?

I'm feeling verrrrry suspicious of this thread...
and will be WATCHING YOU.

GET WITH THE PROGRAMME fellow citizens! Demonstrate your eccentricity, elaborate your eclecticisism, detail your anarchic disrespect for law and order, dot your affectionate indulgence of inaffective same, prove your delight in Dahlias. Or you will, sadly be, EXTERMINATED! (in an amusingly ideosyncratic Aunty Beeb robot voice!)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 05:50 PM

how can you say that?

Because (and note this well) FOLK is only relevant to a TINY PROPORTION of the ENGLISH PEOPLE. To the VAST MAJORITY it is of NO RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER. Go study the nature & history of The Folk Revival. FOLK is a FALSE cultural CONSTRUCT - it is a FANTASY - it is NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN our own good culture, rather it is a MINUSCULE part of it - albeit REVIVED and of VERY LIMITED appeal. You might see this as a BAD THING; whereas I see it as a REALITY. The ENGLISH PEOPLE have their Own Good Culture, and, for the most part, IT DOES NOT INCLUDE FOLK MUSIC. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. My kids hate it; most of the people I know hate it; even I hate 78.6% of it.

If people like any aspect of FOLK, it is down to PERSONAL TASTE and not some FATUOUS CRUSADE to do with NATIONAL PRIDE. If it is, those people, like YOU, are SORELY MISTAKEN. FOLK MUSIC is about the people who play it and love it; it is NOTHING MORE nor indeed ANYTHING LESS than that. Thus do I say FOLK IS NOT OUR CULTURAL HERITAGE - any more than RAILWAY MODELLING or CROSS STITCHING is our cultural heritage. FOLK is a HOBBY - it is a FUN THING TO DO but only for that tiny proportion of the English people WHO LIKE IT. For those who don't like it FOLK is HELL ON EARTH.

So - like folk by all means, but DO NOT have the bare faced TEMERITY to assume THE ENGLISH PEOPLE are in ERROR for not sharing your PERSONAL TASTE.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: s&r
Date: 25 Aug 09 - 06:04 PM

The English are not alone in having Folk as a fringe interest. We were on our third trip to Ireland before we found any Irish folk music. In Athy a pub landlady told us there was music all over the area, but none of the bloody diddley dlddley stuff. In Wales we have found music in pubs that is Pop - and none the worse for it. Don't know about Scotland.

I like and play folk music but not to the exclusion of other forms of music, and I think most people are the same.

Stu

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 03:43 AM

"Please post random musical selections for top volume listening (bring your own drugs and sloe gin). x "

Now you're talking. A rousing rendition of Oysterband Bells of Rhymney should get things going, then gentle it down with Roddy Woomble's My Secret is my Silence. More Sloe Gin in your coffee? (Actually, mine's Damson Gin.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:04 AM

Still waiting for an answer to my question at 2.19 pm yesterday...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:33 AM

"Please post random musical selections for top volume listening (bring your own drugs and sloe gin). x "

My personal contribution in respect of The Season would by my MAUSOLEUM - August 2009 (alluded to below) which you can listen to HERE - AND my YORK MINSTER CHAPTER HOUSE - August 2009 which you can listen to HERE. Both are field recordings - the first recorded on 22-8-09 using a bass guitar in a Preston music shop, the second using two Jew's Harps in the Chapter House of York Minster on 20-8-09. Folk Music? Well they are to me, heart & soul. I don't suppose many here would agree but isn't that the pure vibrant joy of the thing?

Otherwise you can download Vivian Stanshall's classic Men Opening Unbrellas Ahead (1974) entirely gratis from HERE. Never been a CD re-issue...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 04:59 AM

Poem 122 of 230: PROUD PRESTON - AUTUMN 2000

Heavy autumnal rain
    Had surged the Ribble's flow
When I walked to and fro
    The foot-, motor- and train-
Bridges, that have allowed
    Many - some in combat -
To cross this river at
    A town justly self-proud.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:18 AM

WAV - you've already got a thread for your poetry. The feeling is that here you can write what you like as long as it doesn't include cutting & pasting from your Life's Work, or else linking to same.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:32 AM

S: You had just mentioned recording in a Preston music shop, with one of their instruments, and that poem came to mind.

And, the "Ribble's flow", etc. is not too far from the RIV topic of this thread.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:46 AM

For the rave:

Ulrich Schnauss - Far Away Trains Passing By

Stanley Holloway - Sam, Pick Up Thy Musket

Jethro Tull - Heavy Horses

The Human League - Do or Die

Paul Weller - Brushed

The Goons - I'm Walking Backwards For Christmas

Todd Dockstader - anything from Aerial #1 or #2

Rambling Syd Rumpo - The Drunker Nurker

Chris Watson - Embleton Rookery (Embleton, Northumberland, England)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:10 AM

And, the "Ribble's flow", etc. is not too far from the RIV topic of this thread.

Maybe not, but some original observations would have been more welcome. What else did you do in Preston? Did you check out the amazing breadth of stock at Action Records or the many fine English paintings in the Harris Art Gallery? Did you sample the Parched Peas from the vendors in the square or else marvel at the Market buildings and trestle stalls thereunder? Did you gawp in reverential awe at what is still the largest bus station in Europe, or else explore in the fragrant hush the antiquarian delights on offer at Halewoods? Proud Preston indeed! I love the place; we often head there of a weekend. It's also the location of The Moorbrook in which of a Friday night you can hear the finest folk music in the country - the Holy of Holies indeed.      

Chris Watson - Embleton Rookery (Embleton, Northumberland, England)

A classic! CS would love it! Though for Human League I'd go for Empire State Human.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 11:30 AM

My first job after leaving school was in Preston - in 1962 - and I travelled the 20 or so miles from Lancaster daily to that bus station you mention. The Harris Art Gallery was home to the Harris Library, Preston's Public Library, before it was merged with that of Lancashire C.C.

Derelicts on their way to snooze in the newspaper reading room were sprayed with DDT by the janitors in the large circular hall (remember the pendulum?). Us juniors on table tidying duty used to jolt the snoozers as we passed them, to wake them up. I did this one day and the old boy's teeth fell out on to the table - he was as dead as a doornail.

Interesting times. There was a lung in a large jar on display in the window of the Public Health Office. It was stained a dark brown and was supposed to be a disincentive to smoking. People used to stop in ones and twos to remark on it - Woodbines and Capstan Full Strength dangling from their lips...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 12:11 PM

(remember the pendulum?)

I've only known Preston for six years or so - and only intimately since we moved to The Fylde some two years ago. Naturally I assumed the Foucault's Pendulum was a new installation! It's still swinging, measuring the earth's spin as it does so, reminding one of our place in the cosmic scheme of things. Always a humbling, reverential experience, a meditation on pure materialistic wonder indeed. A reviewer once pointed out that when the Sun Ra Archestra swings, they do so like a Foucault's Pendulum. That's my groove right there - and it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!

Preston's Foucault's Pendulum

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 05:58 PM

I see WAV has been putting his hands all over things he knows nothing about, elsewhere on the net Glorishears of Brummagem and subjecting them to what he calls poetry.

I'm embarrassed on behalf of the ladies, who truly are a very talent morris side, and they come from a city, not a rural "idyll"

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 03:56 AM

Preston. Don't forget the Harkness collection of broadsheet ballads, 100s of them, qwell worth a visit but ask in advance.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:10 AM

We'll have to arrange a look one day, Ron - could be a nice project for the upcoming festivities actually...

I see WAV has been putting his hands all over things he knows nothing about,

Looks like the result of an auto-spamming device; WAV hasn't even looked at the page to see that the previous two comments are also his - albeit from previous years - the preceding one containing the same poem! So much for meaningful communication...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 04:31 AM

I say you chaps, spiffing day for a spot of the old Rapper Dancing, what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuqhEix8lGY

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:07 AM

What an interesting YouTube clip. The sound was amazingly good for 1929 when, even with new electrical recording techniques, most sound studios were enormously cumbersome affairs. I just wonder if the sound has been dubbed on after.

Anyway, great to see it.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:36 AM

I think maybe it's because it was filmed outside; there is a lag in the synchronisation but I don't think it's dubbed.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 07:48 AM

A lovely, lovely film, Suibhne O'Piobaireachd

Thank you

Ed

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 08:33 AM

It's a belter for sure, Ed - but for my true feelings see the dreaded Does Folk Exist? thread, where I call it up as Exhibit A in my post of 27 Aug 09 - 04:29 AM Mudcat Time which spawns some interesting chat thereafter.

*

Miss Maud Tamtimmerton celebrates her 100th birthday today with a reception tea in the church hall at 4.30pm. She was one of the dancers featured in the above linked footage filmed when she was a tender 20-years-old. Even now Maud regularly plays her taborers-pipe for the ladies Country Dancing Club, though no longer has the puff for her prized crumhorn, which hangs pride of place above the mantelpiece upon which are displayed her many trophies.

Robbed of her speech by a stroke last year, Maud was unavailable for comment, but gave us a tootle of London Pride on her tiny brass three-hole pipe with a girlish twinkle in her eye.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 09:54 AM

Suibhne O'Piobaireachd ,
There's alot of really great morris and rapper videos on Youtube including a rare bit with Chris Leslie, he of Fairport Convention and the Adderbury Morris actually dancing rather than playing the fiddle. Like John Kirkpatrick (Shropshire Bedlams/Martha Roden's Tuppenny Dish)Chris feels he's getting a bit long in the tooth for extreme hanky waving and bell ringing

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
extreme hanky waver

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:02 AM

"extreme hanky waver"


As a precaution against swine flu, the government has issued a directive to Morris teams that all hankies must have been laundered and disinfected by an approved source and must be taken from a sterile wrapping immediately before each performance. Anyone found with a bogie on their hanky will be barred from performing for five years.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:06 AM

...further, the Folk Police have formed the Morris Hanky Inspectorate to enforce this.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 11:08 AM

"As a precaution against swine flu, the government has issued a directive to Morris teams that all hankies must have been laundered and disinfected by an approved source and must be taken from a sterile wrapping immediately before each performance. Anyone found with a bogie on their hanky will be barred from performing for five years."
- theleveller

That's snot funny *LOL*

Charlotte Olivia Robertson (Ms)
extreme disinfected hanky waver

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 27 Aug 09 - 12:03 PM

"extreme disinfected hanky waver "

I read that first as 'extreme disaffected hanky waver'

BTW, the Folk Police inspector is called, appropriately, Maurice 'Hanky' Hancock.

If you happen to have a Public Hygiene Certificate you don't need to get the offically disinfected hankies - you can get a Morris Hanky Waver Waiver.

(I'll get me coat!)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 03:32 PM

Now here's a slice of England for you, courtesy of Show of Hands
the track The Falmouth Packet/Haul away Joe from their CD Witness was played on the following:

A Chilean Cuatro, an American Mandolin and German fiddle

driving along a Cornish sea chanty with Afro-Celt heartbeats
- An English Acoustic Eclectic Orchestra!

Thanks to Steve Knightley for the CD booklet notes.

Steve Knightley is an Englishman from Southampton, Hampshire

Charlotte Olivia Reynolds (Ms)
a very multicultural person

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 06:54 PM

A rainy night in the village; a weary copper, one PC Bernie Cribbins (no relation) stumbles across something truly macabre in a Sainsbury's shopping bag left hanging from the bent-cane handle of a large old gamp driven into the green. The nearest Sainsbury's is over 40 miles away; he knows this because some of the weekenders do their shopping there en route to their holiday homes, causing comment amongst the villagers regarding the health of the local economy, in particular that of the village shop which could do with the custom - the village pub likewise, which is down on mead sales since the mysterious disappearance of one of its most valued customers.

Anyway, despite the traumas of very recent decapitation, the young lady looks rather tranquil, something of a smile playing about her crimson lips, parted to reveal a set of near perfect teeth. The tiara is not paste; the perfume is Chanel No 5; the make-up stunning; the long lustrous golden hair matted with blood. Also in the bag, an unopened tin of Sainsbury's Dandelion and Burdock, a Show of Hands CD, a box of chalks, and a DVD of the Will Hay film Old Bones of the River (1938). Waiting for the SOCOs to arrive, PC Cribbins chuckles to recall a joke in which a naked young woman is found tied to a railway track by a chap who unfastens her bonds, takes her home, cleans her up, providing a nice hot Radox bath, clean sheets and other such comforts in prelude to a night of passionate love-making. The punchline is not a pleasant one, but it is funny, and fitting, oh dear yes; there will be laughter tonight and no mistake.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:08 PM

I thought Steve Knightley played a Puerto Rican cuatro? (It looked like mine in a publicity picture I now can't find on the web).   Is there such a thing as a Chilean one?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 04:47 AM

Further Remains Discovered

Youngsters playing by the canal his morning made the rather horrific discovery of a human upper torso and arms caught up in the weeping willows on the bank-side opposite the public house known as The Siberian Khatru. Police reports say the remains are most definitely female, clothed as they were in a blue satin ball gown, severed below the rib-cage and with much of the neck remaining.

Single Blow

When asked if this morning's discovery is in any way connected to last night's gruesome assemblage on the village green, a spokesman said that it was very likely on account of the matching jewellery: earrings, necklace (still in situ on the torso) and bracelets. Also, the wounds to both head and body are consistent with a single blow from a heavy sharp blade, and a handbag was found containing a Chanel No 5 perfume bottle and an iPod containing music of a folk pop variety - including several songs from Show of Hands' controversial experimental gothic album Albion Sacrifice. Though the identity of the young woman had not yet officially been disclosed, it was announced earlier that a man is helping the police with their inquiries.

Unholy Row

A neighbour commented: "They're from off - George and Lucinda as we know 'em - they come up most weekends - keep themselves to themselves - always well dressed - flash car - Porsche 911 - very posh - suits and ball gowns - lots of drugs, champagne and you-know-what - at it all hours they are - making a right unholy row - a bit of a screamer she is - or was - assuming it's her. Poor thing. Not a picking on her either. Arrive on Friday night - leave on Sunday night - except on Blank Holidays when they leave on the Monday - not this Monday though - lots of shouting this Monday - yesterday. What time? Oh - around eightish I'd say - time they usually set off - great big bloody row it was - just like you see on Eastenders - which, come to think of it, we were watching at the time so that starts at eight on Mondays. Then it all went silent, which was nice for the final of Only Connect. See anything? No. Rainy night in with the telly - just glad of the peace and quiet."

No Surname

Search parties are out on this bright September morning scouring both the village and surrounding countryside in the hope of discovering the rest of the young lady believed be the aforementioned Lucinda, though no surname has as yet been announced. The youngsters who made the discovery (the grandchildren of a local couple, up from Birmingham for the Summer Holiday) were said to be delighted that their holidays had taken a turn for the better, considering life in the re-imagined village to be well tedious.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:06 AM

Lesser Rivington Murder Latest

It was announced earlier this afternoon that the legs and lower torso of a woman named as Miss Lucinda Wan were discovered in the cellar of the house owned by her brother George in the village of Lesser Rivington which has latterly become famous as the setting for the fantasy forum thread The re-Imagine Village. Such was the relationship between the wayward society siblings that the villagers didn't question their claims to be man and wife, however so reclusive and otherwise anti-social in their eccentricity.

Child

Forensic report that Miss Wan was some three months pregnant at the time of her brutal death at the hands of her brother George who was also the father of the child. A bloodied sword was discovered in the kitchen of the 17th century house, and presented to George earlier today whilst under questioning by the police. He is said to have thrice denied the murder of his sister, claiming the blood was the result of having lately despatched his horse, hound and hawk. Only on it being pointed out that the blood was too red, clear and indeed sweet to belong to any of these beasts, George finally confessed to Lucinda's murder.

Dismember

It seems the row overheard by neighbours in the early evening of the 31st of August was the result of Lucinda having told George that as a result of their ill-advised love-making she was presently carrying their child. In the ensuing fracas Mr Wan drew his sword, first decapitating Lucinda in a single blow, before proceeding to dismember her corpse. In his panic he disposed of the head somewhat rashly, the discovery of which lead to the present inquiry. When asked what he was going to do when his father found out about the unfortunate business, Mr Wan replied somewhat enigmatically that it was his intention was to "...sail the seas in a bottomless boat..." and that he wouldn't return until "...the sun and the moon danced on the hillside.". Police are confident that a plea of diminished responsibility on the grounds of insanity is most likely at this stage.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:26 AM

Jack, I'm quoting Steve Knightley, from the booklet notes for the Witness CD and it definitely says Chilean Cuatro

Charlotte Olivia Robertson
player of an English mandocello and an American guitar

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:35 AM

And the only sound is the curlew's plaintive cry...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws7jH6wNKN4

Now that's what I call music.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:03 AM

East Rivington Neighbourhood Watch
Newsletter October 2009

Since the shocking revelations of the gory murder of one Miss Lucinda Wan were lately revealed by police, reports of local events on the thread which is home to the re-imagined village of East Rivington, appeared to go suspiciously quiet for several weeks. A bearded homeless man, was however very recently observed loitering around the area, making sound recordings on a small hand-held electronic device. When questioned by a local interfering busybody, he claimed to be merely 'listening to curlews'. He was also observed in the company of a bare footed woman, with dreadfully "dirty toes", and worryingly, amongst a number of allegedly stolen items, she was also seen to be carrying a "sharp knife".

We have also received a number of phone-calls from residents concerned that the Man in the Moon has suddenly disappeared. On clear nights he is usually to be seen taking his regular constitutional stroll across the starry sky. Police are keen to question the bare-footed woman in connection with his disappearance. Local police are also keen to question NASA concerning the sudden disappearance.

Anyone with any further information on any of these matters, or indeed any other suspicious sightings in the re-Imagined village, should please contact "The re-Imagined village" thread directly.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 07:56 AM

Anyone going to the Re-Imagined Village bonfire tonight? We're having a hedgehog-roast in the embers once it's died down a bit - cooked up in balls of clay in the traditional manner, with lots of ingans, neeps and taters. Yum yum! Mrs Prosser and her Coven from the WI have promised us a repeat demonstration of their sky-clad circle-dancing which proved so popular last year, though several elderly gentlemen weren't so sure. As Colonel Golightly said afterwards: "Don't know what they were wearing but they needed a damn good iron!"

See you there!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:15 AM

Can't we just toast marshmallows, whilst singing Cob-a-Coaling..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:20 AM

"Anyone going to the Re-Imagined Village bonfire tonight?"

Depends who we're burning this year - hopefully not that nice man who tried to rid us of the king and his cronies. How about someone from the BNP or, failing that, a UKIP MEP - actually, I know just the person......

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:29 AM

Oh, and I'll be bringing spatchcocked wood pigeons to grill and a selection of apples from my orchard.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:26 AM

and I'll be bringing spatchcocked wood pigeons to grill and a selection of apples from my orchard.

That sounds just perfect! As chairman of this year's Bonfire Committee I've declared it a Guy-free Zone. Even as I speak an effigy of Gordon Brown is taking shape as part Miss Pringle's arts & crafts classes in the village school. There was discussion about burning the odd nationalist or two, but it's New Labour who've sold out the working classes thus allowing them to get as far as they have. Needless to say if they get any further we'll be off to New Zealand for sea, snakes & sunshine!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Sailor Ron
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:48 AM

The refugees from Poulton, driven out by parson & mayor, and newly arrived [late] for samaine in The Village have requested they may march round the bonfire carrying their Teanlowe Fires, and also request that the Village green be renamed Purgatory Field.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:10 AM

Consulting my handy copy of Hutton's Stations of the Sun I see that Samhaine's a bit bogus for the re-Imagined Village. Purgatory Field is real enough though, where the Teanlowe Fires were lit in direct consequence of the reformation which robbed us of that immediate link with the family dead.

Arriving late? Not a bit of it! Tonight we'll be looking forward to MARTINMASS which is Old Hollantide - 11th November - so get carving your neeps!

Hop-tu-naa – This is old Hollantide night:
Trolla-laa,– The moon shines bright.
Hop-tu-naa – Cock of the hens;
Trolla-laa –Supper of heifer;
Hop-tu-naa – Which heifer to kill?
Trolla-laa –The little speckled heifer.
Hop-tu-naa – The fore-quarter,
Trolla-laa – We'll put in the pot for you.
Hop-tu-naa – The little hind quarter,
Trolla-laa – Give to us, give to us.
Hop-tu-naa – I tasted the broth,
Trolla-laa – I scalded my tongue,
Hop-tu-naa – I went to the well,
Trolla-laa,– And drank my fill;
Hop-tu-naa – On my way back
Trolla-laa – I met a witch-cat;
Hop-tu-naa – The cat began to grin,
Trolla-laa – And I began to run.
Hop-tu-naa – Where did you run to?
Trolla-laa,– I ran to Scotland.
Hop-tu-naa – What were they doing there?
Trolla-laa,– Baking bannocks & roasting collops.
Hop-tu-naa – Trolla, laa!

If you are going to give us anything, give us it soon,
Or we'll be away by the light of the moon
Hop-tu-naa!

(Manx, from HERE - I might do this tonight actually, after all, there are strong links between the Isle of Man & Fleetwood; on a clear dear you can even see it from the Mount!)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 04:46 AM

Hutton.. wish I could find it!
However rummaging in the re-Imagined village on-line library van, I did find:

British Popular Customs Present And Past - Customs, practices & rituals from the traditions & folklore of the British Isles.
Arranged According To The Calendar Days Of The Year.
By Rev T. F. Thiselton-dyer, M.A. Pembroke College, Oxon
Published By George Bell & Sons London Circa 1900

Which I thought was rather nice.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 05:39 AM

I missed the bonny! Anyone go Souling?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:33 AM

Thanks for that, CS - that's the rest of my day accounted for!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 08:47 AM

I agree, S. - it's a good e-book; by the way, Guy Fawkes night, and soul-cakes, SJ, are at #0510 on the list of contents.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:43 AM

And on the same page you might read the following (for Ron's benefit who knows a certain problem with links):

the custom prevailing among the Roman Catholics of lighting fires upon the hills on All Saints'night, the Eve of All Souls, scarcely needs explaining, fire being, even among the Pagans, an emblem of immortality, and well calculated to typify the ascent of the soul to heaven.
A correspondent of the same periodical (1788, vol. lviii. p. 602) alludes to a custom observed in some parts of the kingdom among the Papists, of illuminating some of their grounds upon the eve of All Souls, by bearing round them straw, or other fit materials, kindled into a blaze. This ceremony is called a Tinley, said to represent an emblematical lighting of souls out of purgatory.

*

Good night last night. All our hedgehogs were fresh roadkill by the way, not too mashed up. Shame to let the blighters go to waste!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:53 AM

Yes, good night. The boorsron were good but I'm still picking spines out of my teeth (nearly said 'pricks' there). The squirrels and pigeons were eaten in retaliation for them feeding on my apples and cobnuts. Just looking round for a magpie recipe (now that rooks are scarce).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 10:12 AM

Thing to remember with magpie is to hang it at least a week or so before marinading it in a half-decent Merlot. One for sorrow, two for joy; good with blackberries and mustard. For best results cook slow. I hear the eyes make an excellent caviare substitute, but you need rather a lot of them to get the effect.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 11:06 AM

hmmmmm...think I'll stick to woodies. Once, many years ago, I decided to make a rook pie and a shooting friend of mine gave me a sack full of rooks. You can only eat the breast meat so after hours of dissecting I ended up with about half a pound of meat and a big pile of corpses, which I put in the dustbin. Sometime later, a rumour got back to me that we were part of a satanic cult.....I wondered why we got such strange looks from the dustman.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 11:23 AM

With all this talk of souls and purgatory, and general spookiness of the season, this might be an appropriate point of relating an anecdote of me & my bf testing our tent in the garden one night, just prior to setting off for a hiking holiday.

We were snug abed in our sleeping bags (for purely scientific research purposes of course) when in a drowsy state I "heard" the announcement like a train approaching a platform "Incoming!" then I experienced the most bizarre sensation of a stream of odd ghostly creatures dancing along through the tent, like the flotsam and jetsam of a child's imagination. This continued until another "announcement" was made (I can't recall the words) and the caravan of dancing spirit entities passed upon their journey..

In the morning when we awoke, my fella recounted to me this striking 'dream' he'd had in the night (which he wasn't really sure was a dream at all, or if he was awake) where a bizarre train of entities danced through the tent during the middle of the night...

We were both quite impressed that we'd both totally unexpectedly had a virtually identical experience! >cue twilight zone music<

Well.. it seems that my house being in direct line between a Church and a Beacon point, has (perhaps) by virtue of it's location what was once known as a 'ghost road' running through - where lost spirits would reputedly travel in procession from the graveyard upon certain nights...

Despite having camped in numerous graveyards over the years, neither of us have ever experienced the phenomena either before or since (though to be honest I've not had cause to camp in the garden since either). Can't recall what the date was either unfortunately, or I could check if it associated to a lighting of the beacon, but it remains for me one of those little fortean mysteries, which possibly connects in some fashion to our ancestors pragmatic folk-rites for the dead...

Any more 'ghost stories' for the re-Imagined village fortean archive?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 12:11 PM

Ooooooh! CS, was there some sort of processional 'cursus' there in the past?

We had a strange experience whe we moved into our present house (a station house built un 1847). mrsleveller kept hearing the noise of heavy, laboured breathing (no, it wasn't me!)and we later found out that the husband of the lady we had bought the house from had died of asbestosis. A while later, while we were sat in the living room with some friends, she felt water dripping on her head and her hair got quite wet. There were no water pipes anywhere near or in the floor above and no damp patches on the ceiling. There haven't been any other happenings for quite a few years now so maybe our ghost just 'pissed off'. (No, seriously, it actually happened.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:48 AM

Doug Pantry, a devout entomologist since his days at Eton, who steadfastly refuses to attend Bonfire Nights, sparked a right old row at the Early Doors pub the other night - he wants half our village green cordoned off for nothing but nettles. His only supporter was Nelly Beaton, who fancies nettle soup with...some kind of pie.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:45 AM

Not sure if this is really a ghost story as I always thought it might be a genius loci, but here goes.

When our collie dog was younger my wife and I would often take turns walking her in Macclesfield Forest, a largely cultivated patch of woodland (mainly non-native softwoods with increasing patches of native broad-leaves) on the edge of the Peak District that occupies the head of a valley and affords quite spectacular views of this corner of England and in the far distance North Wales. The forest is dotted with derelict farms and criss-crossed by stone walls with the occasional leafy spring hidden in damp green corners.

After a walk one day I was heading down the hill back to the car with the dog trotting ahead when a few yards away in the forest a green mist, about the size of a person rose up in front of me. I kid you not, it lingered for a few minutes as I approached then dispersed. It was definitely green, and it was a warm day totally without the mists which cling to the trees some days. I wasn't unnerved, just dismayed. I went to the patch where the mist rose and there was nothing there but grass; I thought it could have been pollen but it was very localised and not a hint remained in the seconds it took me to get there. In truth, it simply didn't look like pollen and I've never seen anything like it in 15 years of walking around the local countryside on a daily basis.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 07:31 AM

St. Margaret's Day (November 16th) is marked by barrel rolling on Copper's Fell, Lesser Rivington, in which seven of the braver (and fitter) young adolescent men of the village are sealed naked in barrels which are then set on fire before being sent on their way down the steep hillside. An impressive spectacle, especially as the barrels are left to blaze at the bottom until the wood becomes brittle enough for said young men to burst naked from within in a gesture of Mithraic Rebirth. Teams of village girls are on hand with a herbal salve of witch-hazel, hyssop and lavender with which to rub on any burns thus incurred, though this practise in itself has developed a certain licentiousness far removed from its original intention.      

Otherwise, on this day:

* 1384 – Jadwiga is crowned King of Poland, although she is a woman.
* 1821 – American Old West: Missouri trader William Becknell arrives in Santa Fe, New Mexico over a route that became known as the Santa Fe Trail.
* 1938 – LSD is first synthesized by Swiss chemist Dr. Albert Hofmann at the Sandoz Laboratories in Basel, Switzerland.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 10:12 AM

Aye, they're a hardy lot alright, the re-Imagined village lads and lasses! Far too cold and wet out there for me to dream of any kind of licentiousness or naked erupting youths, however charmingly Mithraic.

Mind you I suppose it beats hanging out at the re-Imagined village bus stop..

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 07:02 AM

In St. Margaret's chapel, within the parish church upon her feast day, it has been recorded, that a vuper's skin is left upon the feet of the statue of the saint, though this custom seems to have died out in the early 1800s, perhaps due to the then rector the Rev. James Calvin Grant D.D. hatred of anything that smacked at 'popery'. It has however been noted that in recent years colour drawings ofsnakes and/dragons have been left there. Though no one, as far as I know, will admit to revising this custom.
For those who do not know, St Margaret of Antioch [not to be confused with St. Margaret of Scotland] was swallowed by a serpant/dragon/crocodile, and used the pointed ent of her cross to piece its belly from the inside and so escape.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:31 AM

Interesting stuff Guest..

Further to serpents and dragons, at Wormingford in Essex, we have the story of how a pet crocodile was brought back from the crusades, escaped into the eponymous ford and started well, killing sheep and people and stuff basically. Apparently the villagers were so dismayed by the dragon that they started offering it virgins for tea in an attempt to mollify it's blood-lust (good old cosy rustics - echoes of TWM her methinks!). When the villagers eventually ran out of virgins, they called upon a knight to dispatch the beasty, which he duly did without too much fuss.

Later earth-mysteries have been appended to the original dragon-myth, and the hill is said to be home to a 'dragon line' that Smorg-like coils in slumber around the lonely hill-top. The location, is quite atmospheric, and even mildly forbidding. Though I've not visited it with dowsing rods myself, to see if a dragon really sleeps there.

I rather like to imagine, that if there wasn't a dragon *before* the villages started making their blood sacrifices, then there very probably was one afterwards... The village Church has some interesting stuff on the story anyhoo. Though I don't know if there are any village traditions associated to it.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:44 AM

And here's a piccy of a stained glass window in the local church depicted the knight and dragon: Wormingford Worm
Though my guess by looking at the creature, it's probably a modern literal interpretation.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 11:31 AM

Seeing as this is of course the re-Imagined village, can we please have a re-Imagine Wormhill? Where local amateur dowsers come to the pub that is probably at the bottom of it (wot's it called again) and have some local specially baked 'Dragon Pie' (I'll have to come up with a spicy recipe) and Snake-Bite?
It's a local tradition at the Serpent Fayre where of course there's folk music and stuff along with the Dragon Pies and Snake-Bite.

The pub has a small field where enthusiasts camp out and go Dragon Spotting after a few spliffs or mushrooms (in fact the hill itself is a great magic mushroom hunting location, especially in late Summer).
If there's no joy to be found on the hill however, the Landlords Daughter (had to), supplies this prime Skunk-Weed from seeds she gets by mail-order from the Netherlands that she grows in Dad's loft..

And of course there's always the regular Saturday Kurryoke Night to be relied upon for top entertainment. On Kurryoke Night during Serpent Fayre, it's fancy dress and the curry is extra firey, and only songs or bands that feature snakes are deemed appropriate..
Of course it tends to be a soft rock evening, but everyone still thoroughly enjoys themselves. Especially as everyone declares that the Landlords Daughter's harvest is top notch this year.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 12:35 PM

...is there a vegan version of "Dragon Pie", please, CS?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:20 PM

Ask Phil T. about his brother's legendary vegan dragon Xmas dinners, WAV - I narrowly missed out on one when we shared a flat at Brancepeth Castle a decade ago, preferring to spend the season with Rapunzel who was living at Worth Abbey at the time, where we feasted on non-vegan Lamb. We're having vegan dragon & pineapple curry tonight though, complete with vintage 78rpm poppadoms and peshwari naans.

The Guest below by the way was none other than our very own Sailor Ron, who rang last night to confirm the truth of most of what he wrote there, which ties in so beautifully with the young men bursting forth from blazing barrels having rolled down Copper's Fell. Uncanny.

Where there is a Worm Hill, invariably it stands on a Dragon Line, and there you will find it topped with a church of St Michael to s/lay it - as with Glastonbury Tor and St. Michael's Mount and all points in between. There are a few exceptions I can think of, like Worm Hill in Fatfield, one time home of the Lambton Worm, and Spindlestone Heugh in Northumberlanmd where the Laidley Worm has its lair. Worms and lairs! Now there's a cracking film - The Lair of the White Worm which I haven't seen for too long. Can someone arrange a showing at the village hall, please??

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:24 PM

A vegan version? Yes I reckon WaV, especially as the Landlord's Daughter's best mate also happens to work at the village bakers.

Fortunately, it just so happens that the re-Imagined village's Serpent Fayre attracts all kinds of sandal wearing, tankard touting, oddballs and nutcutlets.. And so the village baker supplies these same regular curious incomers with a mighty healthy herby vegan version of Dragon Pie, baked by the Landord's Daughter's mate's own fair hand!

It's a mighty fine raised pie, made with a mix of whole-wheat and white flour, filled with all manner of savoury spiced goodies and topped with a delightful coil of pastry representing the local mythic-serpent. Those less inclined to seasonal Dragon Hunting might prefer spinach instead of the usual local greens, but otherwise the vegan version is just as good as the 'faux croc' (spicy turkey) filling found in the regular meaty version.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Darowyn
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:31 PM

I'm not sure about Dragon's Line, but we used to live on Dragon's Lane (near Malvern).
I'm sure the Re-Im Village should have a lane with that name.
When very young, I lived with my family in Dragonby, which might be a good name for an imaginary village too
Cheers
Dave.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 05:19 PM

Here be Dragon's Lane - we can simply rename Doors Lane, which runs behind the Early Doors Pub, toward Wormhill, where one can either soak in the view of our village green or, of course, dragon spot.

And we need to start re-learning our Early Doors carols, by the way.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 03:36 AM

Dragon Lines is the name of an experimental duo featuring hitherto unaccompanied folk song & ballad singer Polly Vaughan who's recently hooked up with young Drum & Bass turntable-wiz Tomlin to produce some quite stunning & darkly wyrd jams weaving beats, drones, loops and supernatural balladry. I hear they're performing tonight in on of the village pubs but I'm not sure which one as yet.

Interesting to note, for those who are concerned about such matters, that Drum & Bass originated in England. I was, & remain, especially fond of artists such as Photek, and detect his inspiration in the work of Tomlin.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: mandotim
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:21 AM

The Lair of the White Worm; there's a blast from the past! Amanda Donohoe in vamp mode, Peter Capaldi and a very young Hugh Grant, when he was an actor. The opening tracking shot of the lair is actually Thor's Cave in the Manifold Valley, about half a mile from where I live. Perhaps we could hold our pie-eating feast in the cave?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:26 AM

There's been complaints about the new bicycled paper-boy: last week, 3 cottages went without the RIV Chronicle; and 2 front windows were broken, plus one carton of soya; Dorothy Dodge, who has been cricket tea-lady for as long as anyone cares to remember, says he's as fit as the butcher's dog (which often seems to follow him round), but has a wicked smile, an arm like a blacksmith, and hair like Bob Willis.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 06:05 AM

The Lair of The White Worm takes a similar approach to Folk Music as The Wicker Man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDcWgbUrAzI

Maybe a double bill is in order???

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:12 AM

Dorothy Dodge, the cricket tea-lady has also commented that the paper-boy's Mother one Mrs O'Houlihan "an extremely handsome woman, with a formidable bosom", settled Irish traveler and Mum of seven strapping lads, also has a wicked grin and an arm like a Blacksmith. While the local trendy CofE vicar (who still likes to wear the beads he collected while trecking through India many years ago) has the most heathen, wild and wiry locks..

In other villages there would have been quite a scandal, but as this is the re-Imagined village the locals generally look indulgently upon the Vicar's liason. It is also fortunate that his wife Lucia (who he met in India while also buying beads shorty after she had been expelled from Cheltenham Ladies College) is a believer in polyamoury.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Smedley
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:21 AM

I have nothing to add, just a pathetic craving to be the 800th post on a thread.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:39 AM

"The Lair of the White Worm which I haven't seen for too long" I have a first edition of the original Bram Stoker novel which I'll donate to the RIV lbrary - it has some wonderful illustrations.

Must rush now; I'll be back later.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 08:14 AM

also has a wicked grin and an arm like a Blacksmith.

Mrs O'Houlihan - actually a great-granddaughter of legendary Irish Showman Turlough O'Carrageen - lost her right arm when an attempt at recreating one of her great-grandfather's more daring spectacles when horribly awry. Not the first to have lost a limb (and worse) in O'Carrageen's notorious Tumblesword, Mrs O' displays her stump with pride and has developed aforementioned arm like a Blacksmith through her dedication to tennis, weight-lifting, shot-putting, and keeping the boys in order, although it is said that her formidable arm is the result of the sort of conjugalities she provided for her husband having decided seven boys was more than enough - contraception being out of the question on account of their devout Catholicism. If not the actual result, then it must certainly come in handy assuaging Mr O'Houlihan's somewhat rampant carnal needs (five times a day in winter, eight in summer) the copious results of such exploits Mrs O' keeps in a large stone jar which she ceremonially pours into the hole of The Mother Stone of Rivington Ring on the night of the full moon by way of a sacred offering.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 09:04 AM

Directly after Sunday's dragon pie luncheon (please arrive by 11:30am at the latest as Reverend Pete will be giving a talk on Serpent Cults in Dravidian India) to be held in the caves below Worm Hill, Mrs. Proctors WI Coven have also promised to perform an artistic and 'tasteful' sky-clad theatrical dance piece in the village hall during the afternoon. Traditionally choreographed around the Ballad of the Laily Worm, providing a fresh twist this year will be backing music from newly formed D'n'B Ballading duo Dragonlines. Polly will also be providing body paint and glitter services to the otherwise naked dancing Coven ladies, though the stage paint and sparkles unfortunately seem to accentuate rather than diminish their un-ironed appearance.

Everyone hopes that there will not be a repeat fatality this year, but as Mrs Proctor says with usual her usual indomitable spirit "The show must go on!", before adding stoically "And of course, sacrifices must be made sometimes.." Mrs. O' is quietly praying to the BMV, that her aching arm be relieved of it's conjugal duties, and that the entirety of Mr. O' (rather than merely his abundant seed) might be deemed a fitting offering this year. Especially as liberal minded Lucia has it appears developed a keen interest in her husbands' ex-paramour this Summer, which also (thank Mary, Jesus and Joseph) means that Mrs. O' need not suffer the worry of any resulting unwanted pregnancies from their delightful trysts (which are conducted after hours every Tuesday and Thursday beneath the great yew in the abandoned Catholic Church's Graveyard.)

A self avowed "erotic gourmet", Lucia finds Mrs. O's stump "Quite beautiful!".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 09:12 AM

The latest, RIV Chronicle, by the way, mentions that the posh jewellers on Doors/Dragon's Lane, The Ring of Fire, has been sold off to some kind of second-hand merchant - due to open before Christmas...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 10:09 AM

"the posh jewellers on Doors/Dragon's Lane, The Ring of Fire, has been sold off"

Well I doubt anyone's exactly exactly surprised WaV! Tsk, what on earth were they thinking! A posh jewellers in a village?

Hopefully the second-hand shop will do rather better.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 10:17 AM

...you planning to lend them a hand, CS?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 10:45 AM

Sorry, not me WaV!
Thanks for such a kindly fantasy tho', alway's happy to help a stranger.

Perhaps SO'P's elegantly musical and artistic hands may be available for ..what exactly was it again?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 11:37 AM

My hands aren't in the least bit artistic; they're rough and gnarled, rugged as any vagabond or woodsman thus giving testimony to a life of hard rural journeyman labour; soil-stained from the tatties and blistered by the plough; blood-stained from lamb-delivery and pig-slaughter; torn by both tooth and thorn; cut with both axe and bill-hook; leather-hard by the wind and the rain; cracked by the ice and the snow; fire burned at hearth and forge and still smarting from the strap and tawse of childhood....

Seamus Ennis had beautiful hands though, though maybe not quite as beautiful as his music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF3fW4Nox9U

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:07 PM

It's actually the council who now own a second-hand shop on Dragon's Lane - to be managed by a Mr. and Mrs. Adams, and called "Yours for a Song."

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:36 PM

"My hands aren't in the least bit artistic; they're rough and gnarled, rugged as any vagabond or woodsman thus giving testimony to a life of hard rural journeyman labour; soil-stained from the tatties and blistered by the plough; blood-stained from lamb-delivery and pig-slaughter; torn by both tooth and thorn; cut with both axe and bill-hook; leather-hard by the wind and the rain; cracked by the ice and the snow; fire burned at hearth and forge and still smarting from the strap and tawse of childhood...."

Blimey, sounds like a thoroughly terrible affliction to suffer from every day! Poor Mrs. SO'P..

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 08:13 AM

The Adams family started-up shop yesterday - they have American accents, and there seems to be a lot of recycled Whitby-jet jewellery on offer..? (They don't need another hand.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 09:28 AM

Some say that the Mrs O'Houlihan's severed arm was buried in the    graveyard to await the rest of its owner at the appointed time but that, impatient for that moment to arrive, on moonlit nights it could be seen pushing out of the ground and walking through the village on search of its owner. Until, that is, a visiting American actor – one John Astin – caught sight of it and, after some negotiaton, persuaded the limb to accompany him back to the USA where it found fame in the role of Thing in The Addams Family.

Others, however, maintain that the owner pickled it in salt, pepper and vervain, dried it out, and now uses it like the infamous Hand of Glory, to maintain her anonymity while she performs nefarious night-time deeds in the houses of various residents of surrounding villages.

The truth of either of these legends will only be disproven when the owner herself is laid to rest – with or without her gruesome appendage.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 09:41 AM

What I forgot to mention is that I believe the first story to be true as I heard it "first hand" whilst I was employed as John Astin's stand-in. Here's the evidence:

Gomez stand-in

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:02 PM

After this years annual Serpent Fayre went so splendidly well (despite the unfortunate demise of Mr. O' Houlihan, who it seems was ravaged to death by some unknown wild animal and had to be identified by his dental records) the village has been quite contentedly slowing down for Winter.

The recent autumnal winds have rendered the orchard tree's barren of their last remaining leaves, while local Mushrooming enthusiasts wander through Lesser Rivingtons woods foraging for Blewits, Chicken of the Woods and Amanita Muscaria (the latter once baked dry, is said my Mrs. Prosser to make a "delightful shamanic tea, ideal for Sabbats").

After excitement from the Serpent Fayre has finally died down, and the weather becomes increasingly chill (so much so that the WI Coven are compelled to don balaclavas and woolen mittens & scarves during their sky-clad rites around the Mother Stone) everyone feels a little wistful at the passing of Summer, so it is with much chatter and excitement that the latest news from the RIV chronicle is received in the village.

In fact - Oh Goody! - I've just read in my own copy (delivered a little late by Rev. Pete's wiry haired and rather wayward son "...but better late than a broken window", think I) that the re-Imagined village Round Table are planning to host a "Winter Warmer" event over the Solstice! Amongst other entertainments (including a tombola, raffle and knife throwing event), Tomlin has been booked to DJ an evening's Psy-Trance (a small add, including a grainy B&W photo of the ever-smiling Landlord's Daughter and "E's, Whizz & Acid can be purchased on the Door!" in bold type underneath).

The Round Table, keen to encourage the village's young people have advertised this years Solstice Winter Warmer as "The re-Imagined village's first official Illegal Rave: be there or be square!"

A couple of delapidated buses belonging to dreadlocked New-Age travelers have already parked up on the old Quire's land, but as the Squire is now a thoroughly friendly and egalitarian Gloucester Old Spot, no-body minds in the slightest.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:43 PM

Just don't let Thing (and I knew TL's pic. was coming) enter the knife throwing event - that would be a lay down misere!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:54 PM

...or only with some kind of handicap.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:09 PM

Ah, I seem to have taken fresh inspiration from this thread! Have even started re-reading it (though only so far as SO'P's reminiscences of "liquid Germolene" served with Big Mac's, as yet).

Earlier today me and Mr.Crow went hunting (unsuccessfully, though I've seen it before) for a local pub called "The Cats", which after failed local putterings in our wee banger I eventually hunted down on t'internet here: Scroll down to sixth 'cat' pub listed.

Now I'm not normally a fan of modern revised pub names (like "Frog and Ferrit" or "Slug and Pumpkin", but this one is so genuinely eccentric and charming (an extraordinarily large black cat figure sitting amidst the marigolds and dhalias out front, plus another more quietly perched on the roof) that it earns all due respect.

What's more I'd like to import it into the re-Iv, if no-body minds, and use it to house my late batty and also somewhat wayward, though highly hospitable (as is the Irish way) mother. She was the classic cat lady, always a battered roll-up hanging out the corner of her mouth, a hot cuppa tea dangerously dribbling streams of hot liquid onto the floor as she relentlessly chattered away. And she eternally housed local waifs and strays and general good-fer-nuthings - including psychotic cats that no-one else would dare touch with a barge pole. We all said she'd come into her prime at 80, but she died just over a year ago at fifty four (outliving both her parents by seven years.)

In the re-Iv however, Busy Lizzy (as she was known) will do what she always wanted to do, and will (almost) run The Cats as a mixture of B&B (where waifs and stray's will inevitably still take advantage of her hospitable nature - as she serves them bacon & eggs, and lamb & leek stew everyday for breakfast and tea) and cat rescue centre - where otherwise impossible creatures will be homed and successfully theraped by her own intuitive form of white witchery - however much they piss on the beds, scratch the furniture, shit in the vegetable patch, slaughter the neighbours prize carrier pigeons and generally terrorise the locals - and that's just the humans..

It was of course Busy Lizzy that gave the re-Iv Round Table their idea to hold an Official Illegal Rave, after regaling them with tales of the classic and celebrated Weeley Rock Festival of 1971 (not long before I was born).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 07:42 AM

..catnaps - yes/catnip - no, please: the last time it was introduced into the village, side-effects were catastrophic.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 08:49 AM

Leaving the village for the city:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_XX4q45FR8

I've lived my life in the valleys
I've lived my life on the hills
I've lived my life on alcohol
I've lived my life on pills
But it's called love
And it belongs to us
It's called love
And it's the only thing that's worth living for
It's called love
And it belongs to us
It's called love
Yes it's called love

Oh, love is found in the east and west
But when love is at home, it's the best
Love is the cure for every evil
Love is the air that supports the eagle
It's called love
And it's so un-cool
It's called love
And somehow it's become unmentionable
It's called love
And it belongs to every one of us
It's called love
And it cuts your life like a broken knife

Oh, it dies so quickly
It grows so slowly
But when it dies, it dies for good
It's called love
And it belongs to everyone but us...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Dec 09 - 12:00 PM

Manchester is my favourite City - of all those I've actually seen that is. It really knocks the spots off of smug Liverpool in any event - with all the ghastly mop-toppery 'Strawberry Fields' this and 'Cavern' that. Couple of years ago we were seriously considering moving to Manchester. But last few years have been quite messy with deaths and work commitments, and one thing and another, so those plans for a move went on hold - still restless and musing though. Quite honestly I doubt that I would ever feel really at home in any village (bar the re-Imagined one, which would suit me down to the ground) - but an historic market town might do us well. Especially if not *too* far from some kinda culturally diverse city.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 08:55 AM

All a bit quiet in the village in the build up to Christmas; a few lights here and there, but nothing too tacky on the advice of the Community Association who have frowned heavily on such things. Even the residents of Rivington Lea have been asked to tone it down this year, but from the evidence thus far it seems unlikely. The 'trees have been up since early November, the kids are at fever pitch, and the late night Karoakes blare from house to house where huge Homer Simpson Santas bounce about in the chill winds and each house is ablaze in fierce competition to outdo those neighbouring.    Recommendations to the Community Association that such Luminos and attendant festivities be accommodated for their folkloric significance have been rejected by the members of the Folk Song, Morris & Mumming Side Committee, aka The Green Man's Morrice, who insist that theirs is the only genuine folklore on offer in Rivington and any association with the crass council house chavs is to be avoided altogether.

Last year Community Association chairperson and Mummer Dr Quentin Jameson, PhD. caused quite a stir when he ad-libbed a couplet to The Traditional words thus:

In comes I old Father Christmas.
Am I welcome or am I not?
I hope old Father Christmas will never be forgot
As Christmas comes but once a year
And when it comes it brings good cheer,
A pocketful of money and a cellar full of beer,
Roast beef, plum pudding and mince pies:
Who likes that any better than I?
But in these dark times, sees no one gives a toss;
I best be on my way before they nail me to a cross.

When asked who they were, he declined to comment, but it might be noted that Mr Jameson's name was mentioned in connection with a certain petition advising that Rivington become a Gated Community, with Rivington Lea most definitely without its boundaries. He is also instrumental in making sure that all Christmas decorations in the village comply with Traditional Folkloric Precedents - stating that external House Lights aren't proper folklore because they are shop bought. One wonders just which Santa will end up being nailed to a cross this year...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 10:15 AM

As founder of The Humbuggers, Christmas is banned at The Levels. Yuletide, however, will be celebrated with all due solemnity (i.e. none) with roast rib of local beef and a bowl of smoking Bishop ala Ebeneezer after his ghostly encounters. Any carol singers will be showered with red hot pennies from an upper window.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 10:16 AM

Word of that gets out they'll come a-carolling wearing asbestos mittens.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 10:21 AM

Oh dear!

The very latest village gossip seems to suggest that the re-Imagined village's feral youths (actually a bunch of boys and girls who live wild on a brown land site at the fringes of Lesser Rivington) have abducted the Prof!

After having broken into his house and bundled old Jameson into the back of a nicked motor (his own) late last night, the balaclavered youths proceeded to drive out of the village at dangerous speed. No-body knows for certain where they went (though everyone assumes Dr. J. has probably been securely tied up on one of the boughs of the great cedar tree, same as last year), but there seems a general complacency about finding him - at least until after Twelfth Night anyway when most of the inflatable Santa's will be safely back in the lofts of the good people of Lesser Rivington.

Anyway, after that unfortunate accident with the long bow and the regional school inspector in 2008, the wise villagers realise that to interfere with the young lads & lasses fun could be potentially fatal.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 10:47 AM

To be honest, the Prof has only himself to blame. He insisted that the Yoofs tried out the new hallucinogenic substance he invented in order to cash in on the 'legal' drugs trade, now they're addicted and want the formula. They'll probably subject him to unspeakable tortures until they get it. I blame the recent screening of Mad Max 2 at the Lesser Rivington Community Centre for giving them the idea.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 02:54 PM

Ahh, village gossip also has it that the Prof. - a specialist in rare forms of lichen by day - has an evil alter-ego who works by night deep in his secret underground laboratory, performing all kinds of peculiar experiments on whatever it is he's got down there.

No-body in Buttercup Mews questions the screams and howls that emanate from deep within the the bowels of Dr. Jameson's semi-detached bungalow. For although he's a bit evil, as a genius and member of Mensa the neighbours generally tend to be understanding of his idiosyncrasies - plus the Dr. has also appeared both on Countdown and Eggheads!

But it is a blessed relief to the poor traumatised ears of Miss Pringle the school mistress (who unfortunately shares an adjoining wall with the doctor) now that he's "missing". Plus, she can now get her outdoor Christmas lights down from the loft.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 06:59 AM

There's an advert posted in the parish mag:

"Christmas Singaround at the re-Imagined village Wyrm & Virgin inn!
With a mince pie and a glass of mulled wine on the house to all who sing"

No idea how many people actually follow this thread? But I think a handful at least, and some of us have YouTubes/MySpace stuff.

This weekend I will mostly be learning Christmassy type songs - when it's nearer to Xmas and I've put them up on my MySpace, I'll post a link to 'em up here.
Be nice if anyone else fancied sharing links to their online Christmassy type music too, by way of a virtual re-Iv Christmas singaround?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 09:16 AM

I hope that Miss P doesn't do what she did last year when she got a fogettable member of the Hollyoaks cast to officially turn on her lights and blacked out the whole of the village. I suspect that will be the case as simply looking at the hotograh crashed my computer twice!

CS thanks for the invitation. I haven't put anything new on our myspace site for ages but hope to record some stuff over the holiday period. I'm afraid it won't be Christmassy, though, as we don't really do that sort of song (bit too cheerful for us Humbuggers!). Look forward to listening to yours, though.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 09:39 AM

Oh well Leveller - I'm sure the regulars aren't fussy! Anything'll do - we could always have an alternative antipodean special this year, where we sing Summery songs in shorts and t shirts to help cheer up the SAD sufferers.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 09:46 AM

I've "Christmas Sung Simply" (me), and "The Holly and the Ivy" (E. trad.) on my myspace ; and, keeping out of the latest village-villain troubles, am trying to relearn a few others .

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Dec 09 - 12:00 PM

Thanks, Crow Sister. We could do this, which we'll be singing at the Kirkby Fleetham Folk Club Christmas Party next Saturday:

Jack and Jill

Yes, we're both a little SAD I'm afraid.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:48 AM

A heated row began in the Pinky Out Tea Rooms, yesterday, between Mrs Stripe and Mrs George. Feathers flew when conversation moved from Channel crossings and greasing-up to which bird for Christmas.

Mrs Stripe finally saw red and stormed out when Mrs George exclaimed: "Your turkey would be as dry as sandpaper if it wasn't smothered in GOOSE fat."

Mrs Grey, manager of the Pinky Out, claims Mrs George, who has since been nicknamed "Mother Goose", then stepped too far with her final remark: "Don't forget to bring home the bacon, too, for your dry turkey!"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Remote Control Freak
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 04:08 PM

New Year's Day in the Village by Timothy Phipps-Barton.

Hoisted plank
Ratiated;
I am with bone &
wept - bitterly
so bitterly

I saw three
demons; dog-heads;
dead-headed dreams
blood coughed
choughs hacking
on the gate

over there -
an umbrella hangs
and gathers
flaked and
feathered; like
a snake coiled

like an owl
sat by byres
howling in
choking winds
hail lashed in
obsolete winter

Christ was there
reborn in tatters
eyes clawed
blindness
new buds, ice-born

night falls;
she picks stars
from around the moon;
slips and stumbles,
spills
it all goes
sparkling
away

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 04:52 AM

That was me by the way, last night at the in-laws, avoiding Gavin and Stacey having just watched the final Dr Who instalment which was quite the worst thing I've seen in years. Anyway, a little drunk at the time but reading back through it I don't think it's so very bad at all really. In fact, I might just give it to Rapunzel later to see if she might come up with a tune...

That second line should be radiated.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 06:06 AM

Oh dear. I missed my chance at selling some

Horned toads from over the Gulf in Texas

at the Serpente Fayre. They make excellent pets, keeping the scorpions and tarantulas at bay.

I would have been there in a ankle length red patchwork coat

as Vo-Vo de la Gator (Grandmother of the Gator) from the

house on the Bayou

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 08:11 AM

Now that's a house! Virginia - we could do with one of those on the banks of our "gently flowing river, licked by weeping willows, and glided upon by mute swans" (opening post)...what a place to take afternoon tea!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 04 Feb 10 - 09:20 AM

Not long after finding English Folk music around 2004, I was lucky to catch a BBC TV documentary following Martin Carthy, and family, as he received an MBE, and was impressed by almost everything he/they had to say; thus, I could never have imagined the snippets of the Imagined Village I heard on Radcliffe and Macone (BBC Radio 2) last night - just after the BBC Folk Awards. Equally sad, in my opinion, is that, despite there being Scottish junior and senior folk-awards for a few years now, there is still no "English Folk Awards" (as I've said here).

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 09:30 AM

In the Re-Imagined Village it has been reported that several ageing folk enthusiasts have been out in the woods all night a-conjuring summer in. However, as for not telling the priest their plight, the Reverend James Clitheroe, 67, was one of their number and quite possibly the ringleader. Indeed, having invited the wrinkly revellers back to the vicarage afterwards (to listen to his newly remastered Incredible String Band CDs over a ceremonial breakfast of organic muesli washed down with steaming mugs of Barleycup) he then led them in sky-clad procession to the church, there to venerate the resident 14th-century Green Man (an archetype of our oneness with the earth) with a circle dance in the transept accompanied by suitably pagan sounds from the Garrigills Tom, 57, on his Pipe and Tabor, and Sheila, 55, on her English Concertina, who were joined on this occasion by their Down's Syndrome son, Taliesin, 13, on his Bowed Psaltery. Ironically, all were safely tucked up in bed before solstice point, which passed without incident at 11.28 GMT, although readers might note that tonight is a special Solstice Singers Night at the village Folk Club which now meets in the church hall having been soundly evicted from all three village pubs by the discerning landlords loyal to the cultural sensitivities of their locals.

Also this morning, Mrs Emelia Bowler, 55, reported evidence of a noctural blood sacrifice in the graveyard which on closer examination proved to a disturbed fox-kill. The presence of condoms, beer cans and roach-ends was deemed by an investigating police officer to be coincidental, although several villagers did report hearing the rhythmic blowing of vuvuzelas coming from the direction of the church yard in the wee hours of morning. As PC Carrington, 27, explained: "An anonymous source informs us that the vuvuzela is being used in place of the traditional hunting-horn by several illegal fox hunters, who naturally ply their trade under the cover of darkness, so as not to arouse suspicion that anything more serious than drunken revelry is afoot. Whether or not they continue to do so after the world cup remains to be seen, or, indeed, verified. Needless to say, we know who the chief culprits are but have yet to catch them red handed as it were. In this case, it seems, Bold Reynard was disturbed at his repast by the hunt, thus leaving the as yet unidentified carcass in the state in which it was discovered by Mrs Bowler."   

At 3.30 this afternoon Mr Ken Moor, 74, will be lecturing the WI on the folkloric provenance of the enduring 1,2 / 1,2,3 / 1,2,3,4 / 5,6 rhythm currently favoured by vuvuzela players in stirring call-and-response rallies the world over. He dates it to a Druidic Chant reported by the Roman historian Spiritus Canus, the nature of which put the heebie-jeebies up the invading Italians and almost halted their fateful assault on Anglesey. It is also found notated in ancient Gnostic scripture, and the notorious Lope de Aguirre (1510-61) reported hearing it played by remote Amazonian tribes during his ill-fated search for El Dorado. Indeed, following Mr Moor's lecture, there will be a special DVD presentation of Werner Herzog's Aguirre: Wrath of God (1972) in which the eponymous conquistador is portrayed by the late Klaus Kinski, and the memorable soundtrack composed and performed by Florian Fricke and his group Popol Vuh. This is the first of the WI's Herzog / Kinski season, culminating with Nosferatu (1979) to be screened on October 31st, after which the WI will featuring the films of Takeshi Kitano, beginning with a special screaning of Hanna-bi (1997) on November 5th.   

Otherwise, please note clog dancers of both sexes are still banned from the willow-licked riversides so as not to disturb the local wildfowl (the swans as especially sensitive) although fans of English folk cuisine will be pleased to note that stottie, chips and mead are available as a special on at least one village pub menu for the duration of the summer.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 09:48 AM

"it has been reported that several ageing folk enthusiasts have been out in the woods all night a-conjuring summer in."

I was there! And right bloody windy and cold it was too.. Four of us stayed the distance till that dwindled to three then two, and I left the last of the party alone with her guitar at about 5am. What larks!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Darowyn
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 06:02 AM

A recent arrival in the village is retired Detective Chief inspector Frank Parker-Prodnose, known as Nosey of the Yard. He has moved into the delightful house on the Green called "Postman's Knock", which he bought on the proceeds of his latest book, "Who Drove the Car That Killed the Leader of the Pack?"
The DCI has been spending his retirement working tirelessly to expose the miscarriages of justice concealed within so many popular songs and stories. His cogent argument that Tommy, of "Tell Laura I Love Her" was murdered, is just the latest in his series of exposes of Rock and Roll cover ups.
Since moving into the village, he has turned his attention to Folk Songs. The case which has attracted his attention so far has been that of the unfortunate Matty Groves. A synopsis of his ideas follows.
MATTY GROVES WAS INNOCENT.

Little credibility can be given to the testimony of Lord Donald's wife, clearly a sexual predator of the worst kind, and the obvious discrepancies in the story must point the finger of suspicion.
1.        She propositions Matty when she must have been aware that "a servant ….was standing by and hearing what was said". 'Pas devant les domestiques' has been a motto of the aristocracy since Norman times.
2.        "Matty, he lay down and took a little sleep" Hardly the natural reaction of a young man at the peak of his sexual prowess. He was drugged.
3.        The curious case of Lady Donald's reply to "Who do you like the best of us?" The response could not have been more provocative, especially to a man already in a violent rage. Suspicious!
This is what really happened.
Divorce was not easy at that time, Lady Donald wanted her husband dead, but needed a fall guy. She hatched a plan with a trusted servant to entice Matty Groves to the Castle, drug him and put him in the Great Bed. When Lord Donald arrived, he behaved in a predictable way, but for some reason, the plan for the servant to stab him with Matty's pocket knife ( which had been swapped for Lord Donald's best sword) after Matty had been killed, went wrong.
Did the servant betray his mistress at the last moment?
Was there a counter plot between Lord Donald and the servant to allow Lord Donald to rid himself, justifiably, of a wife who was sure to bring scandal to the family?
There is circumstantial evidence for the latter theory.
Was not Lord Donald really saying,
"A Grave. A Grave, to put these lovers in. But bury my lady at the top, for that will confuse and contaminate the DNA evidence if such a thing becomes possible in the future" ?

A number of other files are already open.
"What did Mary Hamilton do?"
"The Third Sister and the Miller"
I'm sure there will be many others.
(Inspired by James Thurber's "The MacBeth Mystery"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:47 AM

Ah post-modern memory!!!!
A long time back in this thread someone asked why licorice was known as Spanish and I couldn't find an answer...just in case anyone is still interested I think you will find that licorice root was known as Spanish root because although Glycyrrhiza glabra (licorice root) is grown in England a great deal is still imported from Spain.
Fortunately, here in Wales we don't have to worry about the English village...its inhabitants have, I am told, bought up all our houses as holiday homes faster than we could burn them down! So "Brown-Wilkinson the 'Piwter" has replaced "Jones the Milk" but then "Jones the Milk" replaced "Llwyd Llefrith" and no doubt Llwyd replaced "Ug the Grunt" "and still the land remains"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,S O'P (Astrray)
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 09:06 AM

In Wikilore :

1) In Yorkshire and Lancashire it is colloquially known as Spanish, supposedly because Spanish monks grew liquorice root at Rievaulx Abbey near Thirsk.

2) Spain produces a rock hard, black, pure substance - Spanish licorice, which in the notyjh of the UK became abbreviated as "Spanish", and could be used sucked for ages. By cutting into small pieces, placing into a bottle of water - usually an empty Bandelion and Durdok bottle - and left to ferment for about a week, thus produced "spo" - a refreshing drink. The spanish was in small rolls with a flattened head holding the name of its producer, and each stick was about 6-8 cm long. (sic throughout)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 02:15 PM

REPOST of nameless Guests contribution here, just in-case mods get twitchy zapping ray-gun fingers ;-)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 08:47 AM

Ah post-modern memory!!!!
A long time back in this thread someone asked why licorice was known as Spanish and I couldn't find an answer...just in case anyone is still interested I think you will find that licorice root was known as Spanish root because although Glycyrrhiza glabra (licorice root) is grown in England a great deal is still imported from Spain.
Fortunately, here in Wales we don't have to worry about the English village...its inhabitants have, I am told, bought up all our houses as holiday homes faster than we could burn them down! So "Brown-Wilkinson the 'Piwter" has replaced "Jones the Milk" but then "Jones the Milk" replaced "Llwyd Llefrith" and no doubt Llwyd replaced "Ug the Grunt" "and still the land remains"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 02:32 PM

...never given Glycyrrhiza glabra a go in my pottages.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 03:33 PM

It's fortunate for the re-Iv, notes Mr's Prosser to the Landlord's Daughter, that new resident inspector Frank Parker-Prodnose is so busy keeping his nose stuck in all those old books about folk songs!
For if he were to become too meddlesome in the day to day affairs of the village, well, something "unfortunate and inexplicable might well happen."

So far however, she notes with a satisfied air (as the Landord's Daughter allows her to sample something "quite special" recently in from Holland) Parker-Prodnose appears to be quite the ideal re-Iv resident!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 03:39 PM

...better than getting it stuck in the staples of some of those unRIVly magazines they sell these days!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 03:52 PM

Winning poem in the latest Re-Iv parish mag:

It was!
A thing it

did
...That

Oh, Oops

(Anon)

Note: The winner being anonymous, can't receive their prize of elderflower champagne! So it will be raffled off next month.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 04:03 PM

I've got to see the conjur man too,
I've got to see the conjur man too,
Because these gin house blues is campin' 'round my door,
I want to drive them off so they won't come back no more!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 04:16 AM

"Otherwise, please note clog dancers of both sexes are still banned from the willow-licked riversides so as not to disturb the local wildfowl (the swans as especially sensitive) although fans of English folk cuisine will be pleased to note that stottie, chips and mead are available as a special on at least one village pub menu for the duration of the summer."

And not to forget of course the re-Imagined village Summer favourite: 'Game Pie Royale' (served with side salad, coleslaw and chips)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 06:33 AM

...we got enough "Game...Rogale" on Wimbledon's village greens yesterday!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 06:39 AM

Elderly eccentric and social misfit Mr Billy 'Lord of the Rats' Fotheringay (67) was temporarily evicted from his council-owned cottage yesterday whilst workers came in to clean the place up following complaints from his neighbours. When asked to comment on his somewhat lax approach to domestic hygiene all Mr Fothingay had to say was "Nature abhors a vacuum."

He is currently resident at The Larches nursing home where staff hope to do something about his four-inch long fingernails and ghostly pallour, consequent on years of personal neglect and noctural habits. As his carer, Ethel Mortimer (53), said this morning "If he thinks he's sleeping around all day in his own filth he's got another thing coming. I don't mind him sleeping in a coffin (I'm as broadminded as the best of them) but he'll get clean sheets same as everyone else - and he'll be in bed long before midnight."

As Mr Fotheringay's neighbour, Mrs Angela Marx (62) explained "He was perfectly normal until his wife left him him in 1980 - although the trouble really started a few months later when he saw Werner Herzog's remake of Nosferatu which is when he started shaving his head, breeding rats, growing his fingernails and appearing at windows in the dead of night. All perfectly harmless really, but after 30 years we feel it's wearing a bit thin."

Otherwise, readers might like to note that the Annual Grey Squirrel Cull will take place this afternoon as advertised despite protests from those who regard it as a form of 'ethnic cleansing'. Truly a case of Polical Correctness gone mad perhaps? Either way, those wishing to participate should come suitably equipped to the village green around 1.30 for a 2.00 start. The traditional Squirrel Pie scamble will take place outside the RC church on Sunday 27th, which, like the church, is dedicated to Our Lady of Perpetual Help. As usual, a vegetarian alternative will be provided.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 11:57 AM

mmm... vegetarians do taste better.... ;>)
Better than what? Better than squirrel pie, better than hedgehog falafels even, I'd hazard.

Has anyone seen my hornytoad, Drexel? He scampered off last night while I was brewing my tea and reading out loud.

"Listen at this Drexel....Nanny Ogg says according to Cut Me Own Throat Dibbler you can find a use for bits of an animal that the animal didn't know it had got. Says here that with enough fried onions and mustard people will eat anything. Drexel? DREXEL?!?!"

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 12:51 PM

I heard through the grape vine that Fotheringay refuses to cut his nails as his wife, before running out the door, squirrelled away somewhere his favourite pair of nail-clippers, which he'd use religously before each Saturday-cittern-club - he not being of the feather-plectrum old school.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 01:43 PM

Brilliant!

After reviewing the fascinating Bertsongs thread on 'Mudcat Cafe Folk Forum' (an internet indulgence for some of the sadder members of the re-Iv's Green Man weekly singaround) it's been decided that there's to be a 'fake song' session, where regulars will compete in composing (and naturally enough singing) the most appalling trad-u-like folk song possible.

Points will be scored for anachronisms, worthy faux working-class* sentiment and 'ye olde' stylee grammatical contrivances!

A fabulous Crystal* Unicorn Tankard from the Shopping Channel will be the prize!


WAV's up first I think? :)




* some kind of resin

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 05:08 PM

Cheers, CS - it's just about the RIV first anniversary too, so I think I'll kick-off with this reworked version of the atop post (vegetarian to vegan, I suppose; and a slight change of tune)...

Poem 101 of 230: JUST SUBSIST

(TUNE:

D F# G F# G A G G
D A A G F# G G G
D B B A G A G G
D A A G F# G G G
D A A G F# G G G -
i.e., each last-line repeated)

At times when I've had time to take,
    I've thought of a plot by a lake.
The place would be of fertile ground,
    With native flora all around.

The plot's dwelling would be basic -
    Well insulated, made of brick.
Plus, on this abode, there'd be built -
    Solar panels, kept at best tilt.

And, also tapping nature's hand,   
    Sails turning atop a stand.
Orchard and vines, for fruit and shade;
    Plus, in thin beds, vegetables laid.

Up at dawn, to use all sunlight -
    Farm by day, play and sing at night.
A spouse with me I'd not resist -
    In retirement, we'd just subsist.

(C) David Franks 2003
From http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com (e-scroll)
Or http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 11:05 AM

Eh, how sweet! That calls for a re-Iv anniversary party..

The re-Iv 'We Are One' Chill-Fest will be featuring Glasto veterans Sedayne V's Another Green World! Woo-hoo!
The assistant at the bakery has also been petitioning the re-Iv round table to book Caribou because she thinks their latest album Swim is top and has been playing Summer anthem Sun on repeat... But it's likely that local djembe and didge duo 'Crusty Vibes' will be playing instead. Eh!

Anyhay, "E's, Whizz & Weed" as always, will be provided by the ever accomidating landlord's daughter.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jun 10 - 01:04 PM

Sedayne better wet his whistle - tomorrow's the big day.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 08:35 AM

So how was it for you? We put a total ban on Folk Music this year and all notions of Englishness were frowned upon as being way too bogus to bother about. Instead we turned our hearts to a celebration of those purely Traditional musics whose primary concerns are with human musical process. Featured artists included The Hemulen (with whom Sedayne guested in a blood curdling rendering of Child Owlet) and also featured were Gnostic dance band Dragon's Den - a track from their forthcoming album Supersonic Chthonics is currently available as a free secure download HERE.

So - Greetings from the Re-Imagined Village, the location of which is somewhere in the People's United Republic of the North Atlantic Islands (PURNAI) formerly known as England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Thus we are no longer English, Irish, Scottish or Welsh, but Purnaian Citizens of Planet Sol Tertius and our Culture is that which we live and breathe as creative human beings. We have no race, no ethnicity, no religion; all we have is our Corporeal Individuality in which we are united by the Beauty of our Myriad Diversity.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 09:18 AM

"also featured were Gnostic dance band"

Who were also selling highly popular psychadelic T's quothing:

Grace danceth.
I would pipe;
dance ye all!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 09:40 AM

...not sure what S. wet his whistle with?!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 09:55 AM

I've no idea WAV, but there was a lovely home-brew to be had from the beer tent called Kykeon?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 10:00 AM

...designed to kick thee on?...meadless, I enjoyed a quiet cider, by the way.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 11:30 AM

A quiet cider? Hmmmm...

I remember stumbling into Glastonbury for the first time at some point in 1984; we two vagabondian adventurers styling ourselves The New Moon Dance Band (aka The Newies) and heading for The Rifleman's where the landlord refused to sell me a pint of the local cider on account of my Geordie accent. The implication wasn't that I was too soft, just one had to work up to these things gradually. All I was bothered about was the accent; I couldn't believe people actually spoke like that in the real world, assuming Glastonbury to be the real world, but he seemed real enough to me even if he spoke like your archetypical yokel in a Two Ronnies sketch. Anyhoo, he served me a half and I supped it down to no ill effects, not least on the purse, as I recall it cost arounf 40p a pint back then. Delicious; in fact I doubted it contained any alcohol at all, and went for something stronger next time, like a bottle of Dog.

Scroll on a day or two; we'd fallen in with some merry travellers of the New Age camped up in an orchard someplace and enjoyed an odd time in benders which served as an education in New-Age culture which though seductive at first soon curdled into the instinctive revulsion I still feel some 26 years later. Thus all to The Rifleman's where by now my face was known to the landlord who was only too happy to serve me several pints of the stuff which basically meant that for an outlay of £1.20 I was three pints down and still convinced the stuff was essentially a soft drink with a pleasing fruity aftertaste. Then I stepped outside into the fresh air...

It was as if the entire universe embraced me in a synaptic explosion of full bodily orgasm, the upshot of which was that I flew up Glastonbury Tor and continued to float around the tower of St. Michael's whilst my companions huffed and puffed in my wake. Then I regaled them with The King of Ireland's Son in its 90-minute entirety before insisting they thread the Glastonbury Tor labyrinth in a merry dance with Raymond leading the merry throng with his pipe-and-tabor. Now, as with most things claimed about Glastonbury, the Tor Labyrinth doesn't actually exist, but let me tell you that it did that night – I could see it clear as day; the earth-energy as of a sacred serpent coiled in rings around the Mothering Pap of Ancient Avalon after which I remember nothing with any degree of clarity until the 25th of December 2007.

I'm sure Raymond could testify to all this, although being a more abstemious soul altogether I dare say he saw things a little differently to what I did. Needless to say I have not touched a drop of the stuff since, nor do I ever intend to.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 12:32 PM

...I wonder, then, if it's the 2nd or 3rd pint that does the trick?...or if apples ain't apples?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 01:41 PM

Rats are the secret ingredient, WAV - as in: 'And if you was to walk through the bedrooms now, you'd see the ragged, mouldy bedclothes a-heaving and a-heaving like seas.'
'And a-heaving and a-heaving with what?' he says.
'Why, with the rats under 'em.'

See HERE for more...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Jul 10 - 01:56 PM

..."as big as pussy cats, in the quarter-master's store" when I was in the scouts.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 04:55 AM

1) I wake up somewhat hungover, though I did not drink last night; the first of August, which brings mutterings of Lammas and residual paganism which I'm most assured does not lurk in such - er - folklore, if folklore it is; and no more pagan than making love and the raising and felling of corn; the grinding mill and the baking of bread, all of which might be accounted for down the ages, and all of which we do today as a matter of course.

2) Yesterday, on an impromtu trip to Manchester, we saunted the Victorian Gothic glory of the Ryland's Library stiff necked at the dragon & green men bosses, and I admit to being moved to tears by the oldest gospel fragment anywhere in the world. I didn't even know this existed until I saw it - the celebrated Ryland's Library Papyrus P52, a fragment of the Gospel of St. John, circa 100-150CE.

3) Perhaps it is this experience which accounts for my mood today; or perhaps it is the McDonald's chocolate milkshake we had last night in the Trafford Centre foodhall with some choice bakes & flans from Muffin Break before driving home listening to Telepathe's Dance Mother album bought at Fopp earlier in the day. Impressive stuff it is too; bought after hearing it played in the shop whilst we were brousing; somewhere between Ladyhawke and Bat For Lashes with liberal doses of vintage Cocteau Twins and Kraftwerk thrown in for good measure...

4) Meanwhile in The Village... things seem quiet this morning although the Twelve Jolly Dons that passed my window earlier did so with a good deal more purpose than usual. Human Sacrifice notwithstanding, one wonders what are the main contruibuting factors to the general demographic around here, much less the prevailing mood of weary (and wearying) contentment. Later today I'll listen to Robin Williamson's Lammas, at least the original recording from Selected Writings 1980-81 which sings across the years like the Ryland's Library Papyrus...

summer of stubblefires and hemlocks
I'll stare from the low ground
till the stars twisting come in heaven's pool
till the dragon slayer loose
the kings's daughter that prophesies of autumn
and to a human song the sisters beside the well

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 02:18 PM

"Human Sacrifice notwithstanding, one wonders what are the main contruibuting factors to the general demographic around here, much less the prevailing mood of weary (and wearying) contentment."

Feh, nothing wearying about contentment!

But I guess we could have a plague or something to liven things up? Or even an outbreak of some new experimental virus that makes people's bits & pieces erupt and drop off before they die in hideous agony, which has been leaked from the heart of a top-secret underground new-world-order-conspiracy style laboratory?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 02:27 PM

Meanwile the re-Iv coven is busily stuffing down iced buns at 'Ye Olde Cherry Bakewell Tea Shoppe' upon their annual ceremonial Lammas pilgrimage. The Cherry Bakewell has been famous for it's iced buns ever since Mrs. Prosser's young niece spotted a "spooky" likeness to Greek grain Goddess Demeter in the icing...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 03:01 PM

Reminded by the Beeb's golf-coverage today that a fine cure for most of the above is surely an outing, from the RIV, to the beautiful Lancashire coastline...by bike, maybe...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 03:12 PM

"a fine cure for most of the above is surely an outing, from the RIV, to the beautiful Lancashire coastline...by bike, maybe..."

What, both SO'P's re-Iv ennui and the festering sores plus fleshy barnacles caused by my secret-lab experimental genetic virus?
Hmm, maybe so WAV.. But Lancashire? Well it's OK for cheese and for scallies, but it's not a sea cure now is it?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 05:35 PM

...you don't have to take the waters, CS.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 05:29 AM

RIV MEETNG NO. 665

Dot Angel apologises in advance for missing the next meeting, saying she has to see her Sisters.

Warren Trench, who is allergic to chlorine, wants the village-green wildlife pond extended into a bathing pond. He claims reeds will do all the filtering for us, and that one may even get one's toes tickled by a toad.

(I should add that, after returning from Heaton Town Baths recently, Trench did appear a tad like the said amphibian.)

Any other concerns, before we take a vote on this...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 06:12 AM

Are Heaton Baths still there, WAV? Seems many of the old ones are long gone, like Durham. In The Village the old Victorian municipal baths were replaced in 1962 by the new sports complex built on the Purgatory Fields which put paid to the Teanlowe Fire tradition before revivalist incomers had a chance to get their grubby hands on it. It was just about dead anyway, the custom being carried out by two brothers who took the ceremony to the Northern Territories of Australia (having emigrated on the proceeds of selling their ancestral land to developers) where, I believe, it flourishes as part of the annual Darwin Hallowe'en Celebrations.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 08:44 AM

You'd have to ask Trech, S. - I haven't swam, indoors or out, for donkey's years.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 09:28 AM

Remembered graffiti from Jesmond baths changing rooms, circa 1973:

I took my lass,
to Jesmond baths,
And in the depths we swum,
Then diving down,
with my goggles on,
I gazed at her lovely bum.
But as I smiled in my scheming,
Out from there the bubbles came streaming...

She's forever blowing bubbles,
Shitty bubbles everywhere,
They stink so high,
Before my eye,
And with them my dreams they fade and die.
Bums are always smiling -
but I wish I'd looked elsewhere;
for she's forever blowing bubbles
Shitty bubbles everywhere!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 09:32 AM

I stopped by the post office this morning to send off my yearly subscription to The Ley Hunter* when I bumped into Mr. Burke-Brothwell and he had a curious tale to tell.

Last night he decided to partake of his usual evening perambulations around the heath (to aid the digestion of his dinner) during which he often indulges his passions for the collection and consumption of fungi and watching the hares that live in Nine Acre Field as they relax and play in the cool of the evening. It was getting dark he turned off the heath path and into the lane (he had spent some time excitedly excavating what he thought was a small summer truffle but turned out to be an oak gall from last year, albeit an uncommonly large one) and the overhanging trees made the way ahead darker and the air thicker. He was stopped in his tracks by what looked like two mall red lanterns glowing in the distance. As he approached (thinking they might be the lights of Mrs. Carr-Gomm's daughter-in-law Sissey's cottage) he became aware of a low menacing rumble, somewhere between a growl and a bark. Suddenly he was aware the lights were rushing towards him, surrounded by a black, amorphous shape that seemed almost to take form as it moved. Within a second it was upon him and he raised his cane to fend of the inevitable attack; the growl was by now a snarl, earthy and deep and full of malice.

Much to his shock, the attack never came; he was aware of a warm rush of air and the unmistakeable odour of wet fur and damp earth then . . . nothing. He lowered his cane and turned around, and ten yards beyond where he stood he saw, silhouetted against the last patch of dark blue sky visible at the heath end of the lane the unmistakeable outline of a large black dog with glowing eyes. The abomination paused for a second and then turned and headed into the trees and across the field, disappearing with a chilling howl into the woods on the far side.

Suffice to say Mr. Burke-Brothwell hurried straight home and locked the door after him, only then calling the station to let Constable Lynch know a large, dangerous animal was on the loose. Mr. Burke-Brothwell returned to the spot in the lane where he saw the animal (apparition?) this morning but could find no trace nor spoor of any creature with the exception of himself; his own footprints were clearly visible.

Mr. Burke-Brothwell thought he might curtail his evening outings for a while and stay in and watch back episodes of Arrested Development instead to "cheer myself up as I've been feeling a bit low recently".

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 12:16 PM

Hmmm...does Burke-Bothwell know his fungi, Jack?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 12:51 PM

He certainly claims to. As you can tell by his leathery, tanned integument he has spent many a day scouring the fields of the parish cataloging, observing, digging up and eating the various mycological delights he finds (although often he's not seen for a day or two after some of his trips, and when he finally emerges his reason for absence if cited as "an excess of one the four humours" or "an case of aggressive internal miasmatic aggregation" which is cured with the help of sennapods and plenty of fresh air (leaving the windows open).

Incidentally, there is a rumour originating amongst the regulars of The Fidgeting Badger that Mr.Burke-Bothwell was actually almost accosted by Farmer Evans's top ratter Snorkel, but Mr.Burke-Bothwell maintains the hairy quadruped he observed was growling, not purring and also it can't have been feline as cats bring on a distemper in him and he didn't have so much as a tickle up his olfactory passageways for the rest of the evening.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 01:01 PM

Hmmm...so probably nothing magic in the mushrooms, then...how full was the moon?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:49 PM

Is The Ley Hunter still going?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stu
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 04:50 AM

I don't think it is. As is evidenced by the asterisk, I had intended to add a footnote to the effect it doesn't but as I wished it did, still sent off my subs. However, I was typing that post when I should have been working and so forgot to write the note. I actually stopped receiving the magazine when I first got married and we didn't have enough money to eat, let alone buy periodicals.

However, The Society of Ley Hunters does exist and seems to be carrying on the work in the same way. Paul Devereux is still working in the field, and though I respect him and his past work enormously I long ago stopped reading his books when he became convinced of the leys = spirit paths theory. I'm not sure that analogues from one cultures can always be applied so readily to another, and to my mind the whole theory didn't ring true. His appraisal of North and South American spirit lines is fascinating though, and whilst some coffin/spirit paths exist in our islands I don't think they are ley lines.

Nigel Pennick is still publishing and working in 'spiritual crafts', and he is still involved in many folkloric and traditional activities and is a wonderful author.

Apologies for the error!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 03:33 PM

Gosh, the resident amateur folklorists of the re-Imagined village are all ears aprick at news of re-release of 'The Imagined Village'. While similarities have been murmured on, no-one actually knows for certain whether or not the eponymous "imagined" village has any relationship other than an incidental and 'poetic' association to the re-Imagined Lesser Rivington!
Gosh! How market-Gnostic can ya get? Read all about it here, in A Book!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 04:04 PM

I think the important thing right now is getting The David Franks Annex sorted out at the Rivington library, seeing as how he can't post on Mudcat without getting hung, drawn & quarted (or rather the Mudcat equivilent of bounced down, thread closed & deleted!) by The Inquistion. Free speech to The Village! Who are the warders? Who are the prisoners? Will we ever find out?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:07 PM

...pray let me say this: I heard a some of The Imagined Village's efforts on Radcliffe and Maconie (BBC), and didn't like it - aesthetically, as well as politically.

(And this: the silly thing is - I am allowed to restart one of the old WAV threads with a Daily Ditty, but they are full of broken links, as my old web-host collapsed. It seems to me that's no good for anyone, but, as you may have noticed, I'm not allowed to start a new one; thus, no-more Daily Ditties on Mudcat - even though, just before the latest was closed, a couple made it clear that they did, in a way, appreciate them.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:16 PM

Oh, I know it is a silly thing, WAV....but I found you had posted one of the two ditties in the latest thread five times, and the other one eleven times. You're welcome to post, but only once. Feel free to post messages about revisions to locations of your poems, but one link to the index will do just fine, thankyouverymuch.
You have blatantly and repeatedly abused your posting privileges here, so I am taking action to ensure that you are now "contained." Your posts are welcome, as long as you don't post what you have posted before.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Smokey.
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:19 PM

Write some new ones, WAV. Don't stifle your creativity.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 05:35 PM

Yes: in terms of verse I've been repetative (there are only 230 pieces in my collection, and I'm content with that, Smokey), but I did try to be topical, and the bits of prose I added were new; furthermore, I did leave it for a full 6 months of newbie-growth...nice to see a couple of newbies in THE village, anyway!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 13 Aug 10 - 06:45 PM

Since its inception in July last year this thread has always been above the line, but tonight it takes a dive without a word of explanation from the powers that be.

What's up, Joe?

---

I moved it. Please contact me by e-mail or personal message if you'd like to discuss the move. -Joe-

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 04:51 AM

Joe - PMs are the curse of Mudcat, which is why I stay logged out.

As a discussion, appreciation and celebration of the Folklore of the Folkscene in general this one belongs very much above the line.

I ask again, why was it moved?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 05:28 AM

Via Village/Shank's pony and the train, I'm off on another folkie-excursion .

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Aug 10 - 05:17 PM

...wish there was more English song and dance, but, overall, a good day; and Choral Evensong at Durham Cathedral, as ever, was wonderful.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 04:30 AM

Where do you sit for Choral Evensong, WAV? For best results, sit in up the choir! Been a while since I was there myself of course, but should ever they be singing Purcell (etc.) I'd be sure to toddle along. Occasionally BBC Radio Three's Choral Evensong comes from Durham - worth listening out for which I'm sure you do!

Otherwise, I see we're still below the line here - and all because one righteous man in his Divinely Appointed Authority has decided he knows best! I love Mudcat for the decent folk who gather here, but find the invisible policing under the all seeing eye of our Holy Pontiff just as nauseating as the cultish adoration of Max going on elsewhere.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 06:31 AM

Yes, S., I was among the visitors who filled the choir; and I nearly always catch Choral Evensong at 4 PM on Wednesday and/or Sunday - only ignoring the bits about the Catholic Church and the Queen.

Also, I heard the other day that Purcell was quite stongly influenced by the folk music around him.

(And as for policing, I'm not sure that each (base/cricket) ball has been played on it's merrits lately.)

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 15 Aug 10 - 08:37 AM

Purcell was a bit of a folkie, adapting & arranging all sorts of traditional material - including Scottish stuff. He might have come up with original tune for Mad Tom of Bedlam which no one does anymore in favour of the new one. Not folk as such but it shiows the exgtent to which he was familiar with such things. Of course Purcell predates much of what we think of as being Traditional by 150 years, so the key traditions are still in place in Choral Evensong, only broken by the republican intermission.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 03:50 AM

Through the mists of a freezing November morning, The re-Imagined Village materialises like Brigadoon. Make haste before it vanishes again...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 05:16 AM

A mystery resident of the re-Imagined village has recently stumbled onto a rare and long forgotten C4 series called 'They Came from Somewhere Else'. Certain strange similarities between the fictional Middleford and the very real re-Imagined village are so thought-provoking that she anonymously shares the series via the village web-site. The series quickly goes viral and soon everyone in the re-Imagined village begins to feel that something very queer indeed is going on..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxgGpL9zU3A

The same resident has also recently found a long out of print film adaptation of Angela Carter's 'The Magic Toyshop' and for no particular reason also shares this with her fellow residents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Z-PiBtfMw

Unfortunately, after the collective distress generated by 'They Came from Somewhere Else' everyone in the village is consoling themselves with hot cups of tea, buttered crumpets and back to back re-runs of Heartbeat starring that nice Nick Berry.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,A Mysterious Stranger
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 05:26 AM

Sorry, me above - post wouldn't take with the 'from' box filled out...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 05:44 AM

Two HTML click-links in a GUEST post??? I tell you, there are weird things afoot in The Village this morning.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 06:17 AM

Yes, I've got a weird foot - ever since Billy Snot ran over one with his bloody traction engine. It's so embarrassing having to go into shoe shops and ask for one size 9 and one size 27.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 06:40 AM

More on the incredibly rare to find The Magic Toyshop on IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097806/

And the equally rare find They Came from Somewhere Else:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0373632/reviews

No clickies this time

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 07:39 AM

...one size 7 and one size 9 for me (not that I ever bother buying 2 pairs of shoes), having been born that way near Didsbury Village - http://www.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse/blog/472829321

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:37 AM

You see? There's WAV proving his Traditional Credibility by still using Myspace. Respect!

Meanwhile in The Village...

Encouraged by a new wave of fundamentalist feeling in the Roman Catholic community, Father O'Flanaghan has announced that last week's amnesty on contraceptive devices was such a success it will be repeated this Sunday too. Once again The Special Box is to be situated in the narthex of The Sacred Heart, though Fr O'F is keen to point out that he doesn't want condoms if they've already been used.

For the especially contrite, an outdoor Mass for the Sacred Unconceived Souls of Dead Sperm will be held in the Presbytery Garden at dusk on the 5th of December. Before this, a clean-up operation in all the 'usual places' has been organised by The Catholic Mothers' League. As the sun goes down, the discarded sheaths will be ceremonially, and individually, layed by the women themselves into the flames of a 'Holy Fire' kindled from olive-wood from the Holy Land. Father O'Flanaghan is reported to be 'very excited' about this, though whether it gets the go-ahead from Health & Safety is another matter entirely.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:23 AM

News of the proposed outdoor Mass for the Sacred Unconceived Souls of Dead Sperm, has enraged members of 'Down with Goo'* ; the local radical atheist Darwinist cult, who - inspired by antics of the now world famous Russian art collective 'Pussy Riot' - are said to be planning a sacrilegious 'happening' intended to disrupt the Mass, if it goes ahead.







* An unfortunate typographical error resulted in a whole batch of pamphlets and t shirts printed by the fledgling radical Darwinist cult reading 'Goo' instead of 'God' - due to insufficient funds the cult decided that instead of the costly process of reprinting, they would instead adopt the new name - reasoning that the word Goo was as good as God, when referring to a non-something which didn't actually exist anyway.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:58 AM

We believe in one Goo, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of Goo, eternally begotten of the Father,
Goo from Goo, Light from Light, true Goo from true Goo, .

Yeah, it has a nice ring to it!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 04:44 PM

...se for the Village Christmas Dinner? And the vegan alternative, this year..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 05:01 PM

I did a chestnut and cashew roast as a part of our winter solstice meal last year - not quite vegan as there was an egg in it. Bit dry though, I shouldn't have bothered roasting the chestnuts myself, but just used ones tinned in brine.

The year prior I did chestnut pate en croute (not sure if the pastry was fully vegan mind you, as I bought it in) but that was too gooey - down with gooey! Down with too dry too. There must be a happy medium somewhere? Goose is the same, too greasy if you don't pierce and drain the fat off properly, too dry if you pierce and drain it too much.

I'm sure there's a fairy story that addresses this kind of dilema somewhere?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 05:59 PM

Over the centuries, mince pies have just about gone vegan, yes?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 07:36 PM

The Xmas Goose will be fed on a strictly vegetarian diet, WAV - we'll make sure of that...

Vegan Mince Pies? Awkward: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincemeat

Word is the festive menu at the local Wetherspoons this year is based on an old English version of The Boars Head Carol.

The Boar's head First
Porkington Mss #10, ab. 1460-70)

Hey, hey, hey, hey, the boar's head is armed gay!
The boar's head in hand I bring
With garland gay and (porttoryng)
I pray you all with me to sing

With hay...

Lords, knights and squires,
Persons, priests and vicars
The boar's head is the first mess

With hay..

The boar's head, as I you say
He takes his leave and goes his way
Soon after the 14th (theylffyt) day

With hay...

Then comes in the second course with (mekyll) pride
The cranes and the herons the bittern by the side,
The partridges and the plovers, the woodcock and the snipe,

With hay...

Larks in hot stew, ladies for to pick,
Good drink thereto, (lyeyvs) and fine,
Blwet of allmayn, romney and wine

With hay...

Good bread, all in wine, dare I well say,
The boar's head with mustard armed so gay,
Furmenty to pottage , with venison fine,
And the humbles of the cow, and all that ever comes in,
Capons I bake with the pieces of the roe,
Raisins of corrans, with other spices more....

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:19 PM

Or how about mince pies cut from children's thighs? Wetherspoons certainly seems to attract it's fair share of the noisy little vermin, I'm sure a few could be quietly culled without anyone noticing, or it upsetting the balance of things overmuch.

As an aside, it suddenly strikes me that The Village represents a kind of repository for All Things Made and Unmade, All Things of Goo's Creation, Below Above, Beneath or in the Crevices, just so long as The Word 'local' is applied as a prefix, it makes it SO.

Past my bedtime...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 06:38 AM

'Local' is the acceptable face of capitalist monopoly; notice, like TESCO & ASDA, that the 'Local' Wetherspoons will always feature the history & lore of its locality. In Tewkesbury there's The Royal Hop Pole (one of my favourites)- all bending dark ancient timbers - and in Morecambe, of course, there's The Eric Bartholomew.

I wonder, what is the The Village Wetherspoons called??

I propose... The Walkabout.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 08:21 AM

...but that may send the Village bankrupt, if that chain of Australian-themed pubs sue...

t...so mince pies still tend to have suet in them, but there's certainly less meat than in the old days; and we could use vegetable shortening...

...or just stuff stotties with sultanas, vegan-margarine and jam?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 07:32 PM

Have you ever tried that, WAV? I'd be very impressed if you have.

When I went to college on the Coast Road in 1977 my old mum used to do me a packed lunch with Greggs stotties filled with honey & Edam cheese. That's something I could happily try again actually... The other stotty use in my childhood was cut up as toast 'fingers' for boiled eggs, or simply toasted with lots of butter. Or with bacon. Or used as a 'pizza' base.

I still find it odd that whilst Greggs is now a national chain, they only do sotties in the North East. They're best fresh & warm from the shop in the Grainger Market...

Dear God - what I wouldn't give for one now!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 06:27 AM

Not yet - I have put sultanas in a sliced-bread sandwich, and, as said somewhere?! above, I have stuffed a stottie with chips. As with baguettes, stotties the day-after are best after a grilling, I think.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 06:45 PM

Day after? I agree. Do they still have the Greggs Seconds Shop on Westgate Hill I wonder? All the day-old stuff ended up there at half-price. Great queues first thing in twe morning as I recall. I think it featured in Pravda under a headline bemoaning an impoverished north-east proletariat having queue for day-old bread... and cakes, pasties and pies.

Which reminds of the old joke (how your Tyneside dialect studies coming along?):

Geordie goes into Greggs, five minutes before closing. 'Whit can aa hev, pet?' he says, looking around the near-empty shelves.

'Whey - ye can hev a mince pie - or a meringue.'

'Nah,' says Geordie. 'Aa think yer reet. Aa'll hev the mince pie.'

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 05:12 AM

Did your village ever have a Fine Fare??

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 07:04 AM

I think its very nice that WAV thinks nice suff about England. I don't understand any of the other stuff like there being no chords in English music.To me if someone sings a harmony, its a chord, isn't it?

I've lived in villages most of my life - rural villages, mining villages, dormitory villages. there is a poetry there, but its as rich and complex as human life itself - not really a rural idyll.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 04:51 AM

Having lived in a number of villages I have to say I hate village life. And there's the key I suppose - for village life to work I reckon you have to be born to it, and everyone else as well. Having been born on a housing estate & lived in cities, where the only people I had anything to do with were immediate neighbours, friends and family, I have to say I do enjoy the anonymity of greater humanity who don't even know I exist let alone chose to concern myself with my business.

The Idyll remains as a yearning for simpler times, like folk music in a way. That said I would dearly love to live in an old house in the country entirely remote from other people. We do that when we go on holiday - where we can gaze at the skies & make as much noise as we like. But we're too used to local amenities, things like shops, supermarkets, regular buses, trams, trains, libraries, doctors, dentists, Subways, chemists, cinemas, Wetherspoons, Harvesters, hospitals, decent TV reception, wi-fi, land lines, gas and neighbours who would be there in a crisis, but leave you alone the rest of the time...   

That said, even though I lived on a housing estate for the first 17 years of my life, I think I'd rather live in a village. The worst village is preferable to that. For me it's either town / city life - or else totally remote in the middle of nowhere - and out with my gun in the morning!

*

No chords in English music? The pastoral English tradition is best examplified in rock 'n' roll's essentially modal nature, which really beefs up with chords & harmonies. Word is these guys are booked in The Village Hall for a Christmas residency:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WfoccRna6I

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 05:00 PM

I live in a small quite isolated village. Every village has its sterotypes. We have the scruffy family whose son is always causing upsets at school. He asked a dear little girl to suck something (it wasn't a sweeet) and was expelled forthwith. We all call them The Asbos. There's always an indomitable old man. Ours is ninety five and strides about like a youngster. There's the family whose garden is called The Yard and has a tractor, a trailer, a caravan, a pile of wood, a heap of broken concrete etc. Every village has at least one of those. There's the Sweet Old Lady, a widow, whose house and garden are immaculate. She wears a 'pinny' and puts her hair up in a bun. (Ours looks just like Betty on the Wonga ads. She even sounds just like her!) There's always a middle-aged lady whose huge dog does an enormous pile of poo in the same spot on the pavement each morning. And then there's my husband, the very black African with woolly hair. Hardly any villages have one of those!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 05:13 PM

Ha, Eliza - I recognise that picture! I live in social housing and consequent of much experience with The Asbo's count myself pretty lucky these days to live next door to a gossipy old lady. Getting gossip out of me is like getting blood out of a stone, but yet she tries!

Mind you my own family have courted their fare share of Asbo Shameless plots too, I must say and no doubt my gossipy old lady would to hear some of the juicy tale I could tell!

So to village gossip: one I heard about the prior residents of our current house was that the bloke was done for attacking his Mrs with a sword, bit more dramatic than any of the tales I could tell involving sherry stealing down the local shop, police raids, getting lost in hedges and home grown pot plants..

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 12:24 PM

LOL CS, isn't it funny that every community has roughly the same types and situations? Sword attacks are rare though. Ten out of ten for that one. We were told of a couple of Chinese chaps who rented a house here (not ours) a few years ago. The stink of cannabis was overpowering, and the Police arrived. The Chinese wriggled out of a window and were away over the fields, never to be seen again. It was of course one of those cannabis farms with artificial lights and silver paper. The village wasn't cross at all, they were absolutely delighted with the shock and excitement. The fact they were Chinese made it all the more thrilling and exotic. I bet they're rather disappointed in my hubbie, he's terribly respectable, quiet and kind. Boring!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 12:46 PM

I must confess Eliza that the first time I saw a non-white person in my old village, I actually did a double take. Yup, a proper, "Huh! Wha' tha'?" I was pretty embarrassed and wound my neck in sharpish. That was two or three years ago now and the long time exclusively white demographic has shifted very slightly but significantly since then. There is now a young Indian family (or so I presume from their dress) and a proper flash looking Black geezer in a shiny BMW with a 'The Only Way is Essex' orange skinned Mrs with a little toddler - possibly the first mixed race child the village has seen in it's entire history!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 12:52 PM

I have to say, CS that we've met not the slightest racism or avoidance here. On the contrary, folk have been super and welcoming to him. They seem to realy love him, and when he goes down to the papershop it's like a Royal Progress. He comes home much later, having chatted with about ten people en route.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 01:08 PM

I'm not surprised your husband is well received, all the African people I've met have been super friendly and talkative. Always ready to to laugh and to smile. I hear a lot of really dark stuff about aspects of African culture (violence against women being a prime example) yet it's hard to comprehend when you meet African men, as they can be exceedingly 'correct' about behaviour.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 10:53 AM

The most notorious village was in the USSR, Potemkin, created to put on a good face of Russian life under Stalin. Today, it is referred to as a coverup village made to look good to visitors.

Disneyland, maybe?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:41 PM

"I don't understand any of the other stuff like there being no chords in English music.To me if someone sings a harmony, its a chord, isn't it?" (Big Al)...folks have tried to enlighten me on this before, but my experience is that when the chorus comes around, at a folk club, etc., others simply double the melody, which is not creating chords.

One exception I recall was, when singing "The Drunken Sailor" at a Morpeth Gathering, Benny Graham's choir added some more-sophisticated bits, which probably did involve the creation of chords - similar to classical choirs.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:47 PM

P.S: my poem on "The 35th Morpeth Northumbrian Gathering" - http://www.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse/blog/459741254

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 04:49 PM

When and who to switch the Village Christmas-LEDs on..?

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 06:54 PM

Chorus singing is all about the harmonies. This is a very natural & traditional thing to do with English Folk Song. Go listen to some Copper Family:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ9-uWXU4oU&feature=related

Is that not stirring to the yearnings of thy soul? It's not so easy for one person to do on their own though...

*

Xmas Lights, eh? I think Xmas Eve to Epiphany is sufficient, proper & correct, though we've still got stars, lights, sparkly stags & angels hanging off the rubber plant that have been there almost a year now - and a sparkly skeleton that's hung there since hallowe'en 2010 at least...

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 05:54 PM

True - sometimes the Coppers sing in two-part harmony.

I just watched the Choir of the Year comp. on the Beeb, where some sang in four parts.

I still say nearly all the time in folk-clubs folks simply double the melody/one-part harmony/no chords come the chorus.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 23 Nov 12 - 07:17 PM

All the good strong chorus clubs go for harmonies. At the Durham Club back in the day we revelled in pushing the envelope as far as we could. And some of uis still do! Most folk clubs we go to now do likewise - in fact in night 40 years o' folkin' I've never heard unison chorus singing, especially on Tyneside...

I suspect the Copper Family weren't unique; their influence went on the inspire other acapella harmony groups from the Young Tradition to the Watersons to the Wilsons to the various groups singing today in fine old style, be they Fisherman's Friends style chantey groups or the Young Uns. Then you've got that whole shape note thing Phil & Cath are involved with, which has echoes of the sort of thing you might hear around the pubs of Sheffield in the coming weeks. The Yorkshire Carolling tradition is an old one - and it extends beyond Yorkshire too - I knew old Durham miners who would play their harmonies from farm to farm on one string fiddles made from cigar boxes.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Miss Kilningur
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 04:53 AM

Just to remind you that there will be a recital this afternoon in the village hall by Mr Cedric Blunt, the president of the English Parlour Folk Song and Tea Dance Society, who will be treating us to a genteel selection of edifying English Tradition songs collected from assorted sruffs, miscreants and ragmuffins and by means of sophistiticated arrangements on the pianoforte suitably scrubbed up to reveal their hidden depths and qualities.

Our regular members will be assured to know that whilst Mr Blunt collected his songs from the low life scum of the outlying estates and more impoverished regions of our village & its environs (including many tinkers, travellers, gypsy's, vagrants, and migrant farm workers) none of these people will actually be in attendance at the recital as we feel it would be detrimental to both their purity and dignity to be exposed to more genteel society.

There will be tea, cakes, buns, toffee and smelling salts available throughout the afternoon, especially as several of Mr Blunt's songs are described as being exciting portrayals of Authentic Country Life (such as The Fox Jumped Over the Parson's Peascod Patch and The Bonny Black Innocent Hare) whilst others are said to be betray their 'rather risque' origins. Songs such as Eh, Our Lucy's a One (in which a mother interrogates her naughty son over the whereabouts of his little sister's teddy bear) are described by Mr Blunt as being in all probability, deeply metaphorical in nature, likewise The Seeds of Lovely Nancy, whereas as others, such as How the Clever Parson Outwits the Stupid Fisherman and Pleasures His Fat Ugly Wife With a Cunning Cromer Crabfish Lubricated with Butter and Cheese and All, he confesses to being quite unnecessarily over-explicit.

As usual, there will be Country Dancing afterwards to the accompaniment of the Misses Tabatha and Melissa Tinkersmeadow on their delightful fiddles and after all that gay excitement, the afternoon will be rounded off by a recital of Scotch Ballads sung by the exquisite Miss Clarissa Tinkersmeadow accompanied by the ever popular Master Tom Tinkersmeadow on his Ondes Martenot.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 06:55 AM

...Stop Press: the Tinkersmeadow's have put to pasture their over-the-border gig in the Village in favour of a strictly pipe and voice performance at their local SNP gathering; they will be replaced at EPFSTDS recital by the strictly unaccompanied singing of Fred Bare, followed by English country dancing to the homely timbres of English-concertinas and -flutes, AND tea.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 06:02 AM

In all honesty, I can't see who in their right minds would prefer an English Concertina over an Ondes Marteno, especially for the accompaniment of Scotch Ballads. Indeed, I'd go one further and say the ideal instrument in this respect would a THEREMIN.

Patented in 1928 (the same year the Ondes Marteno was invented) the theremin would become one of the instruments of choice for legendary Northumbrian dance band-leader, trumpeter, percussionist, & early electonic music pioneer Fred Fauntleroy (obit. 1951). Indeed, Fred abandoned his celebrated musical saw on being gifted a theremin by then Lady Coldharbour, Letitia Wetherstone, at some point in the mid 1930s and used it thereafter at the Hallowe'en Balls at Coldharbour Castle where it could be heard to great effect on his renderings of such gruesome epics as Tam Lin, King Henry and The Witch Mother.

Whilst Fred never played the Ondes Marteno himself, he acquired one for his piano player (Guy Zance) and the two would provide eery electronic duets (to the accompanyment of several droning Northumbrian Smallpipes, various jungle drums & gamelan instruments) in the resonant pillar hall of Coldharbour whilst their aristocratic guests would process from their rooms in togas, smoke excessive amounts of marijuana and proceed to freak out in an orgy of dimly-lit pagan depravity in a scene more typical of 1960s San Francisco than 1930s Northumberland, though, in actuality, inspired by the debauched antics of Emperor Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, AKA Caligula, who was greatly revered by Aristocratic Northumbrian Mystics, Occultists, Gnostics, Devil Worshippers and Mithraic Pagans at the time.

Of course, both the Theremin and Ondes Marteno were unknown to Caligula, but had they been one can be assured he would have prefered their demonic & less-than homely timbres over the tediously insipid folksy honking of the English Concertina any day and seized upon both with great gusto. Just check this out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdL-vbOwvL0

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Miss Kilningur
Date: 27 Nov 12 - 04:48 AM

It seems some of the village youth are taking Mr Blandiver's comments about electronic music to their hearts, though not in the stately, civilised sense of Master Tinkersmeadow with his Ondes Martenot, but rather something more obnoxiously feral.

I found this poster on the village hall noticeboard this morning, and was not in the least bit amused: Exhibit A

This has been removed and placed in a locked drawer in my office until the culprit/s come forward. Apart from anything else, space is very limited on the notice board so permission must be sought.

Miss Kilningur

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 26 Dec 13 - 01:57 PM

According to the rough copy of as yet unpublished January edition of the village magazine, an exceedingly annoyed elderly member of the re-Imagined village has complained to the BBC that their recent televised ghost story "The Tractate Middoth", is nothing more than a plagiaristic rip-off of an unfortunate family experience regarding an annoying old uncle who (quote) "insisted on not dying properly!"

The resident is said to be most perterbed at having " bothersom ghosts" stirred up by the Beeb, especially as he's had to invoke the assistance of the local priest in order to restrain the unwelcome ghoul!

On a brighter note, the annual initiatory Pinchlings featuring the healthy young men of the parish tied and bound, versus the Man in Black's toad poison darts, will commence at midnight! Be sure to bring your own toad! And body removal services.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 04:58 AM

Yay! The re-Imagined Village Revisited!

Actually, that might explain this which was giving me ear-worm all yesterday, so much so that I tried playing it on the fiddle when got home:

Boxing Day Scarecrow Dance

Musicologists are cautious over its provenance, some saying that whilst it's undoubtedly part of the Morris Trad-geist, there are elements of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz in there too, hence the scarecrow, presumably. There was a chorus collected too, it goes:

Have you seen the scarecrow?
Tatters & rags such a funny old show,
A lolloping, loping scarescrow
He sings 'Come along with me!'
He's coming down the road tonight
His tatters & rags all covered in shite
His ugly old face will give you a fright
He sings 'Give me some cake and tea!'

Pick the primal pagan bones out of that, Miss Kilnigur!

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 04:32 AM

Vo vo de la gator ehre

Ahh.. me, but Drexel twas away a long time. He came home shortly afore Toussaint dragging in a large half-dead toad. I promptly popped it in the Royal Crown Cola ice box my nephew (name withheld) brung me from Bubba's gas station at junction of highways 610 and 10, near Gentilly.

That piece of equipment has been a real boon as I kin run it off the stolen lectric my nephew (name withheld) hooked up to my neighbour's pole or off the generator that runs on white lightnin'.

I store all sorts of goodies in that thar box. Got a possum, 7 river rats, and a couple of small gator tails in beside my Ben and Jerry's Caramel Sutra carton full of night crawlers.

I won't be bringing my nephew (name withheld) to the Pinchlings cuz he is a reall good lookin boy. Got's most of his teeth and the carbuncle on his neck has gone down to the size of a golf ball now. But he is too useful to me so he is stayin to home. So Bubba has offered to do body removal and my nephew (name withheld) will work at the gas station. Bubba has some black overalls if that's ok. But one shoulder strap was torn off by a rabid skunk last week.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 04:23 PM

Despite the generous assistance provided by Bubba and Mme Alligator Sadly the Pinchlings was poorly attended this year, an impromptu committee meeting was held and the village council has determined that the improvident use by young people of 'internet networking' sites such as Facebark and Twooter are to blame.

In light of this information, Bubba has kindly offered to blow up the local telegraph poles - which apparently transmit this undesirable intrusion into local village life - next year in advance of the annual tradition.

For the most part the council have roundly supported this move. Though Mr Peewit of number 23 Orchid Drive, was rather concerned about the effect it would have on his 'personal' entertainments, he was assured that regularly scheduled dogging activities could if needed, be observed down at Bluebell Wood some twenty minutes from his home.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 04:31 PM

Nice Scarecrow Dance Jack!

I've been listening to Bright Pheobus recently, and though this hardly needs posting, I will as it's so beautiful - just wish it were more suitable for accapella.
If you click on this post Tam, do have a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut9MhLq-tVs

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 04:52 PM

More scarecrows XTC - Scarecrow People

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 05:22 AM

Vovo de la Gator here.

Bubba sells fireworks down to the gas station. He/she (we still ain't sure which) has the legal ones out front. If y'all want them real fireworks the password is "The Rapture." There's a virtul powder magazine of 'em behind the retread tire store.   I know, I thought it was a bit blasphemous, but kids today. They got no respect.

Anyway the pyro playthings will all be on BOGOF sale come Thursday morning after New Year's. I expect there'll be a run. Make sure you ask for the proper Chinee ones. Half of them West Indian ones are real duds, though they make a nice smell and purty color smoke.

I git real hungry after they set off a few of those.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 06:25 AM

'Real fireworks' are most entertaining! Especially when choreographed along with some rousing Classical music such as the Round Table do. In fact I heard rumours that Bubba may have supplied the ones for this energetic display: Watch from 1:50 Just as a point of interest, does Bubba know that the colonies are no longer at war with the English? It can make going into the Gas station a little anxiety provoking at times..

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 07:09 AM

In good re-Imagined tradition, I watched some nice British horror films this Xmas.

Mathew Hopkins Witchfinder General was good for atmosphere, and for seeing Hopkin's tramping ground in Suffolk villages like Lavenham. Lots of moody grass and woodland. The end was a bit crap. And the dumb blonde who decided to *stay in Lavenham* after the Witch burning episode was ridiculously infuriating.

I also watched Sean Bean's "Black Death" which wasn't a bad modern stab at recreating that classic British archaic horror / landscape vibe. Though it went a bit pants at the end as most horrors do and it borrowed too much from the Wicker Man. I'd have liked more 'real' paganism, or rather *absence of Christianity*, in so far as remote villages were typically ridiculed as 'pagan' not due to any conscious rejection of Christianity but merely ignorance concerning what all that latin and going to Church business was all about.

BBC's Tractate Middoth was entertaining but a bit lacking. The Ghoul was creepy but there could have been more 'mood'.

Subject: RE: The re-Imagined Village
From: GUEST,Secret Satan
Date: 01 Jan 14 - 04:20 PM

Free for the Festive Duration : The Twelve Days of Christmas 1979​/​80 - '...music from the chambered winter tombs of hauntological folktronica...'